[16:43] <presidentofspess> rothie
[16:43] <presidentofspess> did I tell you how the AI algorithm would work?
[16:46] <presidentofspess> rothie
[16:46] <presidentofspess> rothie
[16:46] <presidentofspess> rothooooooo
[16:54] <presidentofspess> ROOOOOOOOOOOOOOTHIE
[16:54] <presidentofspess> 2 much sushi 4 u
[16:54] <Ranok> ;_;
[16:54] <presidentofspess> i kno rite
[16:55] <presidentofspess> it's important guns and butter business
[16:55] <presidentofspess> trying to build an AI for it and he's out having fun
[16:55] <presidentofspess> like really
[16:55] <presidentofspess> who has fun these days
[16:56] <presidentofspess> but you can help demo
[16:56] <presidentofspess> I need some personality types
[16:56] <Ranok> lol
[16:56] <Ranok> sure
[16:56] <Ranok> hmmm
[16:56] <presidentofspess> for an AI to determine priorities for tasks
[16:56] <Ranok> militaristic
[16:56] <Ranok> passive / friendly
[16:56] <Ranok> ;_;
[16:56] <Ranok> idk
[16:56] <presidentofspess> who prefers conquering butter production to buying it, sure
[16:56] <Ranok> Industrial
[16:57] <presidentofspess> the passive guy like brian who just builds up his little butter palace
[16:57] <Ranok> lol
[16:57] <presidentofspess> well rothie wants a reactor
[16:57] <presidentofspess> maybe a personality that tries to rush for reactor?
[16:58] <Ranok> hmmmm
[16:58] <presidentofspess> I mean atkins accelerator
[16:59] <presidentofspess> but that's like 3 or 4 different types
[16:59] <presidentofspess> not a lot of variety
[16:59] <Ranok> trying to think of some
[17:00] <presidentofspess> I suppose the basic premise of only guns and butter doesn't lend itself well to a large variety of playstyles
[17:01] <LordRothschild> its basically just economic vs military
[17:01] <presidentofspess> oh there you are rothie
[17:01] <presidentofspess> the tasks I have to gather so far is
[17:01] <presidentofspess> increase butter production
[17:01] <presidentofspess> moar guns
[17:01] <presidentofspess> moar tech
[17:01] <presidentofspess> attaacking
[17:01] <presidentofspess> building reactor
[17:01] <presidentofspess> did I miss anything?
[17:02] <LordRothschild> how do you hit people with diet bombs?
[17:02] <LordRothschild> or are you making that later?
[17:02] <presidentofspess> oh make diet bombs!
[17:02] <Ranok> pragmatic vs irrational?
[17:02] <presidentofspess> a sort of intelligence parameter demo?
[17:02] <Ranok> Maybe
[17:02] <presidentofspess> a guy who builds more guns can he can afford to keep
[17:02] <presidentofspess> XD
[17:03] <presidentofspess> how do you want poeple to be hit with a diet bomb
[17:04] <Ranok> lol
[17:04] <Ranok> hmmm
[17:04] <Ranok> what about taking out loans
[17:04] <Ranok> but
[17:04] <Ranok> exorbitant interest rates
[17:05] <Ranok> or get rekt by some military
[17:05] <presidentofspess> butter loans?
[17:05] <Ranok> or try and fight them
[17:05] <Ranok> possibly
[17:05] <presidentofspess> that needs either a butter bank or people banking
[17:05] <Ranok> should the bank be controlled by players?
[17:05] <presidentofspess> what say you rothie
[17:05] <presidentofspess> butter master
[17:06] <presidentofspess> let rothie decide
[17:06] <presidentofspess> it's his game
[17:06] <presidentofspess> I'm just making it XD
[17:08] <presidentofspess> oh rothie I also need to you clarify a few points
[17:08] <presidentofspess> 1
[17:08] <Ranok> lol
[17:08] <presidentofspess> how much does a diet bomb costs in terms of butter
[17:09] <presidentofspess> is it insta build or arrives next turn
[17:09] <presidentofspess> does it remove 15% butter production or 15% guns
[17:09] <presidentofspess> we've gotten further than your game ranok :3
[17:11] <presidentofspess> http://imgur.com/GgjzEBI
[17:11] <cutebot> [URL]
[17:11] <Ranok> ayy lmao
[17:11] <presidentofspess> graphics aren't worth much but hey it's somewhat functional
[17:12] <presidentofspess> could probably try to slap on an actual GUI after AI
[17:12] <presidentofspess> make it somewhat pretty
[17:12] <presidentofspess> 10000 hours in MS paint and all that
[17:12] <Ranok> lol
[17:12] <Ranok> should be easy enough
[17:12] <presidentofspess> I'm using C++
[17:12] <presidentofspess> it's not just drag and drop
[17:12] <Ranok> ;_;
[17:13] <presidentofspess> should be fun
[17:13] <presidentofspess> lordrothschild
[17:13] <presidentofspess> pls clarify
[17:13] <Ranok> >tfw spoiled by htm&css
[17:14] <presidentofspess> yeah I bet you don't accidentally cause buffer overflows or memory leaks in html5
[17:14] <Ranok> lel
[17:15] <LordRothschild> hmm?
[17:15] <LordRothschild> back
[17:15] <presidentofspess> scroll up a bit
[17:15] <LordRothschild> removes 15% butter production
[17:15] <LordRothschild> instabuild
[17:15] <presidentofspess> ooo
[17:16] <presidentofspess> so you could launch 2 diet bombs in 1 turn
[17:16] <presidentofspess> without it blowing up in your face
[17:16] <LordRothschild> kinda like how chems worked in bloc v1
[17:16] <presidentofspess> didn't play v1
[17:16] <LordRothschild> what else...
[17:16] <LordRothschild> eh, cost of making a diet bomb can be zero
[17:17] <LordRothschild> if you like
[17:17] <presidentofspess> that seems pretty cheap
[17:17] <LordRothschild> chems don't cost money to deploy, why should diet bombs?
[17:17] <presidentofspess> because this isn't bloc
[17:17] <LordRothschild> fair enough
[17:17] <LordRothschild> maybe just like 100 butter
[17:17] <presidentofspess> chems can't blow up if you do it too much either
[17:18] <LordRothschild> UN rapes you
[17:18] <presidentofspess> might
[17:18] <presidentofspess> it might rape you
[17:18] <LordRothschild> if you're not playing v1 it WILL rape you
[17:18] <presidentofspess> :D
[17:19] <LordRothschild> but hooo boy
[17:19] <LordRothschild> back then you could gas someone like 9 times
[17:19] <LordRothschild> then dismantle chems for a small rep boost to get you out of AoE rep
[17:19] <LordRothschild> lel
[17:19] <presidentofspess> kek
[17:19] <presidentofspess> well as per the usual I made prices and damage easily changable
[17:20] <LordRothschild> that works
[17:20] <LordRothschild> anything else?
[17:20] <presidentofspess> did I miss any tasks for the AI?
[17:20] <LordRothschild> what about migration?
[17:20] <presidentofspess> if I get something decent built it would be easy to build on,  maybe even add diplomatic crap so alliances can enter the game
[17:20] <presidentofspess> oh right migration
[17:20] <LordRothschild> yeah, alliances are kinda important
[17:20] <presidentofspess> I could use that in conjunction with threat asessment
[17:21] <LordRothschild> if you ever do get around to adding them in, add in a autoaccept applications to join
[17:21] <presidentofspess> why
[17:21] <LordRothschild> it was a massive pain in the ass to send invites to 200 /pol/acks before
[17:21] <presidentofspess> well if we adopt a browser solution
[17:21] <presidentofspess> depends on whether demo is up for it
[17:22] <presidentofspess> I see no reason why not to improve upon the existing structures
[17:22] <presidentofspess> like allowing players to apply to an alliance instead of having to send out invites to everyone
[17:22] <LordRothschild> yeah
[17:22] <LordRothschild> that would be nice
[17:22] <LordRothschild> stuff like integrated annexations and coups would be nice too
[17:22] <presidentofspess> ooo coups
[17:23] <presidentofspess> how would that work doe
[17:23] <LordRothschild> like "player x has declared a revolution? do you join his rebellion?"
[17:23] <LordRothschild> if yes then you join his new alliance
[17:23] <LordRothschild> if no you stay in your current alliance
[17:23] <presidentofspess> what about a sort of alliance civil war
[17:23] <LordRothschild> to make facilitating coups easier for non officers
[17:23] <presidentofspess> winner takes all
[17:24] <LordRothschild> eh, they can just split off and then warmonger
[17:24] <LordRothschild> like the confederacy
[17:24] <presidentofspess> yeah that's probably better
[17:24] <LordRothschild> and then have an annexation thingie where the leader of an alliance can have his whole alliance join another fed
[17:25] <presidentofspess> maybe put in mechanics for people who want it to function like a democracy
[17:25] <LordRothschild> optional ones
[17:25] <presidentofspess> I know abrican had votes for positions
[17:25] <presidentofspess> yeah optional
[17:25] <LordRothschild> probably have it as an option when you're founding an alliance
[17:25] <presidentofspess> or just put it in a general settings
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[17:26] <presidentofspess> also thought maybe a sort of bulletin board would be nice
[17:26] <presidentofspess> instead of mass comms so regular fed members could get something out to more people easier
[17:27] <LordRothschild> eh, masscomms work ok
[17:27] <presidentofspess> yeah if you're an officer
[17:27] <LordRothschild> but a buletin board works well if someone joins after a masscomm is made
[17:27] <presidentofspess> yeah just something simple so people can see it
[17:28] <LordRothschild> so is ranok capable of making a website for everything?
[17:28] <LordRothschild> if so that's really cool
[17:28] <presidentofspess> maybe
[17:29] <presidentofspess> if he can then all I would need is to translate to python and adopt to a mysql platform
[17:29] <presidentofspess> oh yeah and discard the AI :D
[17:30] <presidentofspess> maybe not totally discard
[17:30] <presidentofspess> depends on what you have in mind
[17:30] <presidentofspess> it won't perform well in python
[17:30] <LordRothschild> could use it for a few npc cities for people to kill
[17:30] <presidentofspess> but I suppose a specialised C++ binary that's called by python could be made if you wanted NPCs
[17:30] <LordRothschild> eh
[17:30] <LordRothschild> its more of an optional thing
[17:31] <presidentofspess> yeah
[17:31] <LordRothschild> heck, if we wanted to make some sort of superboss NPC
[17:31] <LordRothschild> we could have it manually controlled by an admin anyways
[17:31] <presidentofspess> :D
[17:31] <presidentofspess> yeah but that's tedious
[17:31] <LordRothschild> its not too bad
[17:31] <LordRothschild> plus imagine getting to play as butterzilla
[17:31] <presidentofspess> yeah but kicking it at the pool with asian qts is easier without having to drag a phone with you
[17:32] <presidentofspess> kek butterzilla XD
[17:36] <presidentofspess> rothie you have any idea for ai personalities?
[17:37] <presidentofspess> demo already have aggro guy brian guy and industrial guy
[17:37] <LordRothschild> you could add in ideologies
[17:37] <presidentofspess> lol
[17:37] <presidentofspess> gonna have to eleborate on that
[17:37] <LordRothschild> /pol/
[17:37] <LordRothschild> commie
[17:37] <LordRothschild> landsraad
[17:38] <presidentofspess> but the basic types would be military guy, steals BP instead of buying it
[17:38] <presidentofspess> and the polar opposite
[17:38] <presidentofspess> guy who just builds BP
[17:38] <presidentofspess> with enough guns for defense
[17:38] <LordRothschild> hmm
[17:38] <LordRothschild> so you already have pretty much everything of the basics
[17:38] <LordRothschild> added into the game right?
[17:38] <presidentofspess> yeah I guess
[17:38] <presidentofspess> you have the same source code as me
[17:39] <presidentofspess> well mostly
[17:39] <presidentofspess> :D
[17:39] <LordRothschild> do you think you could add spies?
[17:39] <presidentofspess> I just need you to write down what they can do what they cost etc
[17:39] <presidentofspess> hell I could write it so each nation could have infinite spies
[17:39] <presidentofspess> only limited by system RAM
[17:40] <presidentofspess> or if we web it, database limits
[17:40] <LordRothschild> spies 100 butter can see other player's tech and reactor progress
[17:41] <presidentofspess> that's it?
[17:42] <presidentofspess> think on it rothie
[17:42] <presidentofspess> pastebin
[17:42] <LordRothschild> hmmmm
[17:42] <presidentofspess> also bonus points if you make it a copy paste job for me
[17:42] <presidentofspess> like have the essentials in a format I can just put into the defs file
[17:42] <presidentofspess> you kow
[17:43] <presidentofspess> know
[17:43] <LordRothschild> ok
[17:43] <presidentofspess> #define SPY_COST 100 //description
[17:43] <LordRothschild> hmmm
[17:43] <LordRothschild> since diet bombs already target BP
[17:43] <LordRothschild> what if I made spies target guns?
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[17:43] <presidentofspess> some defensive option other than diet bombs would probably be nice
[17:44] <presidentofspess> I mean they're good as a fuck you
[17:44] <cutebot> No thanks, I only do qt3.14s
[17:44] <presidentofspess> piss off cutebot
[17:44] <cutebot> Why are you so mean?
[17:44] <presidentofspess> but if you're losing you're kill
[17:45] <LordRothschild> maybe I could add a function where they can go terrorist mode
[17:45] <LordRothschild> maybe instead of trying to fuck with them and give a guy rebels
[17:45] <LordRothschild> its more like special ops
[17:45] <presidentofspess> butter rebels?
[17:45] <presidentofspess> or like put water in the gunpowder
[17:46] <LordRothschild> oooh
[17:46] <LordRothschild> instead of calling them spies call them black ops or something
[17:46] <LordRothschild> and instead of only intel
[17:46] <LordRothschild> you can also use them as insurgent troops that bypass gun ratios when fighting
[17:47] <LordRothschild> like a butter marine or whatever
[17:48] <LordRothschild> can deploy in another player, costs 100 butter each
[17:48] <LordRothschild> gives intel and can attack
[17:51] <presidentofspess> kek butter marine
[17:53] <LordRothschild> ok
[17:53] <LordRothschild> I think I have something
[17:53] <LordRothschild> http://pastebin.com/Yi708ZZB
[17:53] <cutebot> [URL] butter marine squad:  cost 100 butter  can give intel (see tech and reactor stat - Pastebin.com (pastebin.com)
[17:54] <presidentofspess> what's the range of those things
[17:55] <presidentofspess> what's the % for failing to destroy guns
[17:55] <presidentofspess> why a static amount of guns killed
[17:55] <presidentofspess> also afaik tech is public information so I don't see why that should be an inherent property
[17:55] <LordRothschild> oh
[17:56] <LordRothschild> then just butter reactor intel then
[17:56] <presidentofspess> unless of course you mean intermediate tech progress
[17:56] <LordRothschild> intermediate
[17:56] <presidentofspess> since that counts towards guns as well
[17:56] <LordRothschild> also the odds of failing to kill guns is 10%
[17:56] <LordRothschild> as shown in the doc
[17:57] <LordRothschild> oh and as for range
[17:57] <presidentofspess> so 90% chance of success?
[17:57] <LordRothschild> yeah
[17:57] <LordRothschild> hmmm
[17:57] <LordRothschild> ok that might be too much
[17:57] <presidentofspess> well
[17:57] <presidentofspess> each gun costs 5 butter
[17:57] <presidentofspess> so a 100 butter unit has a 90% chance of destroying 50 butter
[17:58] <presidentofspess> so in a perfect world it would destroy 450 butter before failing
[17:58] <LordRothschild> ok, so just kill 5 guns with a 15% chance of failure
[17:58] <presidentofspess> 10 guns seems fine
[17:59] <LordRothschild> oh right
[17:59] <presidentofspess> but what about a chance of plain failure
[17:59] <LordRothschild> they're not secret
[17:59] <presidentofspess> instead of failure and elimination
[17:59] <LordRothschild> maybe an additional 10% chance of failure but survival?
[17:59] <LordRothschild> ooh I like that
[17:59] <presidentofspess> yeah an easy way to balance
[17:59] <presidentofspess> without nerfing the attacker hard
[17:59] <LordRothschild> and they're basically spy units
[17:59] <LordRothschild> but special ops
[17:59] <LordRothschild> so they essentially have infinite range
[18:00] <LordRothschild> lol
[18:00] <LordRothschild> hmmm
[18:00] <presidentofspess> so they go all over the map?
[18:00] <LordRothschild> that might be a bit OP
[18:00] <presidentofspess> yeah could be a problem since you can't see further than your attack range
[18:00] <LordRothschild> wait, you can't see further than attack range?
[18:00] <presidentofspess> although that could be changed
[18:01] <LordRothschild> oh yeah!
[18:01] <presidentofspess> yeah map returns an error right now lol
[18:01] <LordRothschild> there's also territorial control
[18:01] <LordRothschild> that's a big part of this
[18:01] <LordRothschild> so yeah, a general map would be nice
[18:01] <presidentofspess> I was thinking a basic ascii map could be generated fairly easily
[18:02] <presidentofspess> like A1 A2 A3 A4 A5 A6 A7
[18:02] <presidentofspess> B1 [24] [20] [12]
[18:02] <presidentofspess> etc
[18:03] <LordRothschild> but yeah
[18:03] <presidentofspess> maybe [E20] for enemy controlled
[18:03] <LordRothschild> I guess butter marines could be a thing
[18:03] <LordRothschild> where each squad costs 100 butter
[18:03] <LordRothschild> that sounds p neato
[18:03] <presidentofspess> yeah
[18:04] <presidentofspess> going pretty far from the basic premise
[18:04] <LordRothschild> its not too hard to code right?
[18:04] <presidentofspess> nah
[18:04] <LordRothschild> and besides, you can see how it could possibly make things more fun right?
[18:05] <presidentofspess> yeah
[18:05] <presidentofspess> my philosophy for the waw econ redesign wasn't to remove shit
[18:05] <presidentofspess> beside removing the trade center
[18:05] <presidentofspess> more is funner
[18:05] <presidentofspess> generally
[18:05] <LordRothschild> but you have to have a reason to have it in
[18:05] <presidentofspess> oh yeah of course
[18:05] <LordRothschild> stuff like stability and approval are good for bloc's immersion
[18:06] <LordRothschild> since you're running a 3rd world country
[18:06] <presidentofspess> fluff for the sake of fluff leads to a trade center 2.0
[18:06] <LordRothschild> but WaW's mistake
[18:07] <LordRothschild> is that heidi didn't put enough effort into immersion
[18:07] <LordRothschild> like you're really running a space faring civilization
[18:07] <presidentofspess> yeah he really goofed on that
[18:07] <LordRothschild> like come on
[18:07] <LordRothschild> the education thing
[18:07] <LordRothschild> is like
[18:07] <LordRothschild> "buy this to increase literacy"
[18:07] <LordRothschild> wtf
[18:07] <presidentofspess> just copy paste from bloc
[18:07] <LordRothschild> its fucking
[18:07] <LordRothschild> literacy
[18:07] <LordRothschild> in a space faring civilization
[18:07] <LordRothschild> and the economic policies
[18:07] <presidentofspess> you've never watched firefly have you?
[18:07] <presidentofspess> or andromeda
[18:07] <presidentofspess> or battlestar galactica
[18:07] <presidentofspess> or that other one
[18:08] <LordRothschild> two of them effectively mean the same thing
[18:08] <presidentofspess> stargate!
[18:08] <LordRothschild> buying bonds and quantative easing
[18:08] <LordRothschild> and its a single planet
[18:08] <presidentofspess> yeah the funnest thing is that quantitative easing costs money
[18:08] <LordRothschild> ^
[18:09] <LordRothschild> and he didn't have anything like selling bonds or contractionary monetary policy
[18:09] <presidentofspess> it's not like they would really do anything
[18:09] <LordRothschild> stuff that curbs economic growth but raises stability
[18:09] <presidentofspess> growth isn't a product of change in GDP
[18:09] <LordRothschild> yeah
[18:09] <presidentofspess> GDP is just a number that increases with growth
[18:09] <presidentofspess> you have no real money supply
[18:09] <LordRothschild> but it would be fun if heidi at least tried a bit more
[18:09] <presidentofspess> you just generate money
[18:09] <presidentofspess> put that money in a bank
[18:09] <presidentofspess> and generate some more
[18:10] <presidentofspess> yeah heidi just needs some help
[18:10] <presidentofspess> except he won't take it :D
[18:10] <LordRothschild> and there's no economic choices to make
[18:10] <LordRothschild> central planning and FM in bloc at least had gameplay differences
[18:10] <LordRothschild> the faction system was nice
[18:11] <LordRothschild> but it doesn't have a role in WaW, its just growth vs cash
[18:11] <LordRothschild> and the growth is so UP that everyone goes command or mixed to get more trades
[18:11] <presidentofspess> well to be fair I have no idea how to incorporate the differences in mine either
[18:11] <presidentofspess> Imma just disregard them entirely and let people play as they wish
[18:11] <LordRothschild> that works fine for stuff like guns and butter
[18:12] <presidentofspess> guns and butter really is too simple for that in its current iteration'
[18:12] <presidentofspess> it would just be fluff for the sake of fluff
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[18:13] <LordRothschild> I always thought that it should be more of a meta thing anyways
[18:13] <LordRothschild> like a free market alliance would allow its members to allocate their funding as they wished
[18:13] <LordRothschild> while a socialist one would tax people and micromanage everything
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[18:14] <LordRothschild> the irony is that true communism has never been successful in WaW
[18:14] <LordRothschild> closest thing to it in WaW v1 was actually central bankers since I gave out a lot of aid to anyone who asked
[18:14] <presidentofspess> yeah but for that to really work it would need to allow alliances to tax their people
[18:14] <LordRothschild> oh yeah
[18:14] <presidentofspess> which I guess is possible in my version of the economy
[18:14] <LordRothschild> that's also a good idea to have as a thing
[18:15] <presidentofspess> since currency management could be made federal
[18:15] <presidentofspess> you could tax them via inflation XD
[18:15] <LordRothschild> hmmm
[18:15] <LordRothschild> maybe later I could introduce transportation costs for trading guns, butter, and other fatty resources
[18:16] <presidentofspess> the resources would be really funny
[18:16] <presidentofspess> if they kept the general theme
[18:16] <LordRothschild> oooh, I could maybe encourage a system like how the crusaders did banking
[18:16] <presidentofspess> how did they do it
[18:16] <LordRothschild> well, basically they used to transport a lot of gold from the middle east and back and all
[18:16] <presidentofspess> how is that banking
[18:16] <LordRothschild> but then they figured out instead of just tranporting gold, they could just have a customer deposit their gold
[18:17] <LordRothschild> in one place
[18:17] <LordRothschild> and pick it up at another
[18:17] <LordRothschild> so instead of just having gold going back and forth
[18:17] <LordRothschild> they had paper recipts for it
[18:17] <LordRothschild> with a cost for using the service ofc
[18:17] <presidentofspess> so banking without the fractional reserve part?
[18:18] <LordRothschild> yeah, basically a transportation based demand
[18:18] <LordRothschild> they got so filthy rich they were a threat to the power of the vatican
[18:18] <LordRothschild> so they were declared heretics and all their shekels were stolen
[18:18] <presidentofspess> wat
[18:18] <presidentofspess> the vatican declared the fucking crusaders heretics?
[18:19] <LordRothschild> no no
[18:19] <LordRothschild> not all crusaders
[18:19] <LordRothschild> just the knights templar
[18:20] <LordRothschild> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Knights_Templar
[18:20] <cutebot> Wikipedia.org: History of the Knights Templar - The history of the Knights Templar incorporates about two centuries during the Middle Ages, from the Order's founding in the early 12th century, to when it was disbanded in the early 14th century....
[18:20] <LordRothschild> sorry about that confusion
[18:20] <LordRothschild> but yeah
[18:20] <LordRothschild> one of the world's first bankers
[18:22] <presidentofspess> I remember learning about that in assassins creed
[18:23] <LordRothschild> there's still conspiracy theories about them
[18:23] <LordRothschild> to this day
[18:23] <LordRothschild> who knows? maybe they teamed up with the jews?
[18:23] <presidentofspess> could be
[18:25] <LordRothschild> but yeah
[18:25] <LordRothschild> you could have old fashioned crusader style banking
[18:25] <LordRothschild> in guns and butter
[18:25] <LordRothschild> without the need for a sophisticated economy
[18:25] <LordRothschild> just add some form of cost to transporting goods
[18:28] <LordRothschild> wew
[18:28] <LordRothschild> guns and butter may even be able to have player made currency
[18:28] <LordRothschild> without a sophiticated game economy
[18:28] <LordRothschild> who da thunk?