16:56 Caspian: For Nobility it was questions about how you become Noble, what the responsibilities are, and how/whether or not you can lose your title.
16:56 Caspian: Alas, I am here to reveal all.
16:56 Caspian: Unmute for dramatic applauce.
16:56 Caspian: applause*
16:56 Caspian: Not apple sauce.
16:57 Caspian has changed mode: -m
16:57 Morbis: claps
16:57 ross: claps.
16:57 Mayor_Teland: applauds
16:57 RodrikDumont: Apple Sauce
16:57 Innese: Dang I wanted apple sauce
16:57 Pharazon: #applesauce
16:57 Syckness|Work:  /clap
16:57 VictoriaRachel: throws apple sauce.
16:57 MrBin: YAY
16:57 GammeaUni: claps
16:57 Derethas: roots.
16:57 Althaea: WHOOOOOO
16:57 Caspian has changed mode: +m
16:57 Caspian: Ok. That's enough. :-)
16:57 Caspian: Gentry
16:57 Mobius1 has joined (~Leonardo@177.17.35.246)
16:57 Caspian: You can obtain land through a number of means. You can obtain land through mawwiage, inheritence, purchasing from the count, and of course, through adverse possession.
16:58 Caspian: Mawwiage only works if you put it in the contract. That's the default, but you can take it out. Then, marriage doesn't combine land-ownership.
16:58 Caspian: Because you never know, he/she may be a gold digger.
16:58 Caspian: Seriously, they may actually try and dig up the gold on your land.
16:58 Caspian: That would be bad.,
16:58 Caspian: ...
16:58 Caspian: Ok.
16:58 Caspian: Moving on.
16:58 Caspian: Inheritence.
16:59 Caspian: It's possible to inherit land from yourself, or from others who will it to you.
16:59 CitrusKiss_work has left IRC (Signed off)
16:59 Caspian: However, when the game first launches you'll likely be children of NPC families... you will *NOT* inherit the land of your NPC parents *UNLESS* you reach certain favor with them.
16:59 Caspian: Otherwise, they'll will the land back to the Count.
16:59 Caspian: We did that because we didn't want the first generation of players to *automatically* get all the NPC land.
17:00 Caspian: They should still have to work for it.
17:00 Caspian: Yep, we think of these things.
17:00 Caspian: Next, you can buy land from the Count.
17:00 Caspian: We'd been working on how we actually wanted to do this, and yesterday Souzou, Death, and myself had a long meeting to talk about the user experience for this.
17:00 Caspian: Here's what we came up with.
17:00 Caspian: The Count will have a table in a public County Office.
17:00 Caspian: The Table is a real-estate table.
17:00 Dakota has joined (webchat@188.66.141.185)
17:01 Caspian: It shows all parcels of land within the County.
17:01 Caspian: The count, or a representative he appoints, can go in, insert "blank deeds", and then drag/drop them onto the parcels of land on the table and fill in the values.
17:01 Caspian: Then, anyone else can come look at the table, and it'll have all the open parcels of land with the "deeds" pinned to the parcels.
17:02 Caspian: They sign their name, put any required money "in the table", and take the deeds.
17:02 Caspian: Poof! They've purchased the land.
17:02 Caspian: No need for the Count/Land Managers to be online to sell the land.
17:02 Caspian: Easy peasy.
17:02 Caspian: It's possible there will be different contracts.
17:02 Caspian: The Count/Land Manager can put different types of deeds into the table and drag/drop them to different lots for different rules.
17:03 Caspian: Ok. So you've just purchased a plot of land, you take the deed and now you own the land and can build on it, etc...
17:03 Caspian: one sec
17:05 Caspian: Sorry. Phone call.
17:05 Caspian: That was Cami telling me we shouldn't release the next video we had planned.
17:05 Caspian: I agree with her. It wouldn't be received well right now.
17:05 Caspian: In any case.
17:05 Caspian: Moving on.
17:05 Caspian: The last way to obtain land is through Adverse Possession
17:06 Caspian: We changed the system slightly since last we spoke as a result of the Land Management table.
17:06 Caspian: Now, you go to the table and it'll show the land on it that has become "Abandoned"
17:06 Caspian: Then you can replace the contract for that land with your own contract.
17:06 Caspian: You can specify the purchase price, property tax, etc...
17:06 Caspian: Basically, whatever you want.
17:07 Caspian: You put that, along with any gold, etc... onto the table. And you file "Adverse Possession" on the land.
17:07 Caspian: Now, you go back to the land, you build a structure on it, and you must hold the land for 28 days as before.
17:07 Caspian: The first step is important because what you get back from filing with the table is a Deed that becomes legally binding after 28 days.
17:07 GrimWulf has joined (webchat@mail.calderbateman.com)
17:07 Caspian: So after 28 days, you own the land in full.
17:08 Caspian: The nice thing about this though, is it gives the Count "notice" that you're claiming the land.
17:08 Caspian: If he sees the contract and doesn't like it, he may come and fight you off the land.
17:08 Caspian: If he *does* like the contract, maybe you were fair and generous, he may actually come help you defend the land from the previous owner.
17:08 Caspian: So indeed, the Count may be on your side.
17:09 Caspian: So, inheritence, mawwiage, purchasing through the Land Management interface, and adverse possessions.
17:09 Caspian: Questions
17:09 Caspian: ?
17:09 Caspian has changed mode: -m
17:09 RodrikDumont: Okay Caspian question, those of us who backed the Kickstarter and have made alliances...will we be given the ability to pick where our land is? Will we require a dev to do this?
17:09 Althaea: Caspian, can we auction land?
17:09 BicycleWalrus: WOOT! YEAH -- FREE LAND! I want all of the people in my County to disrespect your parents, and spit in their faces!!! FREE LAND!!!! WOOOOOT!!!!!!!
17:09 Liva: Mawwiage?
17:09 Jaspurc: sounds good!
17:09 Liva: xD
17:09 VictoriaRachel: I do not understand the contract part of the adverse possession. Who is that contract with? What is it for? Is the gold you deposit a bribe? That part is a little unclear.
17:09 Wellspring: How do Barons fit in with the counts?
17:09 Dat: Hey caspian, does this mean counts or kings can assign who are barons and what not
17:09 Kenlo-Stabby: ponders life
17:09 Liva: can you modify the building with the real-estate table, to make it like a mansion like building. a mansion for the count in the city. or can you put the table in the count's stronghold?
17:09 GammeaUni: wow
17:09 Caspian has changed mode: +m
17:09 VictoriaRachel: However apart from that one question, love the table idea.
17:10 Caspian: RodrikDumont: You will be able to pick your land. I'll get into that.
17:10 Caspian: The contract is between you and the Count, just like when someone normally buys the land.
17:10 Shriyk has joined (webchat@ppp118-210-199-180.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net)
17:10 Caspian: But because you're claiming the land through adverse possession, it means you set the terms of the contract.
17:10 Caspian: This is important because otherwise, adverse possession implies you don't owe any property taxes or anythign.
17:11 Nikelaos has left IRC (Signed off)
17:11 Caspian: But Adverse Possession is supposed to be a legal way to take ownership of land, not an illegal way, so there still needs to be a contract associated.
17:11 Caspian: Barons are Aristocracy, we'll get there next.
17:11 Kenlo-Stabby_ has joined (webchat@128.177.161.140)
17:11 Caspian: You can make the building with the table look like whatever you want.
17:11 Kenlo-Stabby has left IRC (Signed off)
17:11 Caspian: It's the table that defines the purpose of the room, not the building.
17:12 Caspian has changed mode: -m
17:12 Syckness|Work: Can you "Steal" from the table and can you have a contract that expires/renews periodically
17:12 RodrikDumont: Caspian How will conquering be handled? If I make an army and roll through the countryside of a neighboring Kingdom is it possible to lay claim to their lands this way?
17:12 Mobius1: Only problem is that adventurers will lose their land, instead of being able to return  to home. would be nice if kingdoms/counts were able to outlaw adverse possession, but i guess that would depend on people in general, not devs.
17:12 Innese: How does a parcel become abandoned?
17:12 Caspian has changed mode: +m
17:12 Caspian: We'll get to conquering in a moment.
17:13 Caspian: Adverse Possession requires your land to become abandoned first. That means not you, or a family member sets foot on the land for 28 RL days.
17:13 Caspian: Then, it takes another 28 RL for the Adverse Possession to take effect.
17:13 Narkari has left IRC (Signed off)
17:13 Caspian: So it takes almost a full two months to gain land this way from the moment someone abandonds the land.
17:13 Caspian has changed mode: -m
17:13 Kenlo-Stabby_: 28 Days Later?
17:13 CharliesDragon: Heh.
17:13 willow: If you fail defending for adverse possession, do you get the gold back that you left on the table?
17:13 Morbis: What are the exact conditions of AP going through?
17:13 Liva: What if someone buys all the land on the table?
17:14 Liva: Can he/she then sell it off again?
17:14 CharliesDragon: It'll take some time to get used to the idea of adverse possession being handled this way.
17:14 Mayor_Teland: How active does the Count (or their rep) have to be for this to work? If our count goes on a 2 week holiday and forgets to assign someone, does that mean no land ownership deals during that time?
17:14 Jaspurc: without the zombies
17:14 Pharazon: what constitutes defense, or the reverse taking your land back?
17:14 Jaspurc: yup
17:14 Wellspring: What if you don't keep your end of the contract? pay the taxes?
17:14 Antaryon: So what's stopping a count to close the doors to the table and sell all his land to his friends for free Caspian?
17:14 ross: Is there any way for a Count to revoke ownership of land?
17:14 ross: Nothing, Antaryon
17:14 Caspian has changed mode: +m
17:15 Caspian: AP goes through if you build a house/structure on the land and it isn't torn down for 28 days.
17:15 Caspian: As for the money, that's a good point. Probably wouldn't put money in until after the AP takes place. It would just be part of the contract.
17:15 Caspian: No problem if someone buys alal the land on the table.
17:15 Caspian: Yes. You can sell land you own.
17:16 Caspian: You can even build a table of your own, that shows all the land you own and put it up for sale using your own Land Management table.
17:16 Caspian: The active doesn't need to be active at all for this to work.
17:16 Caspian: That's why the table is there.
17:16 Caspian: The land manager is just someone else who can set prices, put stuff up for sale, etc...
17:16 Caspian: If you've done all that ahead of time, there's no need to appoint someone.
17:17 Caspian: If you don't pay your taxes, you break contract, and after some grace period the Count can remove you from the land.
17:17 Caspian: Antaryon: Nothing is stopping a count from selling all his land to his friends for free. Of course, he gets no money that way.
17:17 Caspian: Which wouldn't make for running a successful county.
17:17 Caspian: Also... he might be up for a rebelion. We'll get to that.
17:18 Caspian has changed mode: -m
17:18 GrimWulf: outside of established borders, how do you claim land if theres no table?  How much can you claim at once?
17:18 Althaea: Perhaps I should rephrase my question. Can you auction land through a system or would it need to be player driven?
17:18 ross: For example, if your contract requires a certain tax to be paid each week/month, how is that recorded and collected?
17:18 Belzak: Oh ok, so someone just cant roll up to the table and make a contract for land I own and possess?
17:18 Pharazon: does that mean a count can create taxes so high that I am essentially forced off of my land?
17:18 Caspian has changed mode: +m
17:18 Caspian: GrimWulf: We just talked about adverse possession.
17:19 Caspian: As for if there's no table... there has to be a table for the County
17:19 Caspian: It's part of the Counts power.
17:19 Caspian: We'll talk about that at some point.
17:19 Caspian: Ok. You guys are well beyond "Gentry owning land"
17:19 Caspian: You're already onto Aristrocracy and Nobility.
17:19 Caspian: "But... how do I be king?"
17:20 Caspian: So...
17:20 Caspian: On to building settlements.
17:20 Caspian: You buy three plots of land next to each other, or you and a friend, and you put a well in the middle.
17:20 Caspian: That creates a hamlet.
17:21 Caspian: Everyone within the 3 parcels of land get water "automatically" when on the land. meaning, you thirst goes up, but you won't die of dehydration.
17:21 Caspian: Hamlets are not registered.
17:21 Caspian: They offer no other benefits, and you can call your hamlet whatever you want.
17:21 Caspian: It's unlikely to show up on any maps, however you can put it on a map if you like and distribute it.
17:22 Caspian: If you expand your and your friends land up to 9 parcels in more or less a square, and build a Tavern, your hamlet becomes a village.
17:22 Caspian: Everyone who owns land in the village is a village elder and *should* have a say in what happens in village matters.
17:22 Caspian: Whoever owns the most land is naturally going to have more say.
17:23 Caspian: Again, villages can be named whatever you want, likely won't show up on maps, and don't *have* to be registered with the County.
17:23 Caspian: But if you register, you get certain benefits.
17:23 Caspian: Namely, the Count will likely want to build a road, put it on the maps, and if you build structures with crafting stations that are "open", then NPCs from nearby areas might come and join your village.
17:23 Caspian: They may then purchase land nearby to help grow your village.
17:24 Caspian: So...
17:25 Caspian: 3 is a Hamlet, 9 is a village, I think 27 is currently a Town (requires a Town Hall), 81 is currently a city (requires a courthouse).
17:25 Caspian: With each of these upgrades, you have to have more land, more people registered, and construct new buildings.
17:25 Caspian: Also, the well we first built only covers a 3x3 area.
17:25 Caspian: So as you expand, you'll need to put in more well, fields/farms for food for the tavers, windmills, etc...
17:25 Caspian: Of course, any plot of land along a river automatically gets water.
17:25 Kenlo-Stabby has joined (webchat@207.197.92.30)
17:26 Caspian:  So no need to buld additional wells along a river.
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17:27 Caspian: Populations were like 10, 25, 100, 250.... I believe.
17:27 Kenlo-Stabby_ has left IRC (Ping timeout)
17:27 Caspian: Now, once you get to the point of having a Town...
17:28 Caspian: There is a Town Charter that is filled out.
17:28 Yar has joined (webchat@50.254.183.137)
17:28 Caspian: The person "in charge" of the town is the Mayor.
17:28 Utogi has joined (uid161715@2604:8300:100:200b:6667:2:2:77b3)
17:28 Caspian: Generally speaking, the Mayor of the town will be the person who owns the most land under the town.
17:28 Ostracism has joined (webchat@68.63.249.119)
17:28 Caspian: But it doesn't have to be that way...
17:28 Caspian: When you move up to a City, the Mayor becomes a Magistrate.
17:29 Caspian: Next, Hamlets, Villages, Towns, etc... have a military counterpart.
17:29 Caspian: These military counterparts work much the same, except they are defensive structures, typically smaller, and are paid for by the Duke, rather than paying to the Count.
17:29 Count_Rojax has joined (webchat@c-76-120-53-186.hsd1.co.comcast.net)
17:29 Caspian: These are Outposts, Forts, Keeps, Strongholds, and Castles.
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17:30 Caspian: Like their civilian counterparts, they require the introduction of different buildings such as Lookouts, Barracks, Ramparts, etc..
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17:30 Caspian: The leaders of Keeps, Strongholds, and Castles are, as you might have guessed, Barons instead of Mayors/Magistrates.
17:31 Caspian: As a hamlet/village, there's no special UI.
17:31 King_Zultra_I has joined (webchat@212.219.197.5)
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17:31 Caspian: As a Town+, there's a Town Management UI you get, which lets you see your boundaries, zone parcels of land for different types of buildings (residential, commercial), and lets you identify where you want different types of structures to be build.
17:31 King_Zultra_I has joined (webchat@212.219.197.5)
17:32 Caspian: This is, as you guessed, a Table, much like the Count has, which goes in the Townhall.
17:32 NPCDarcnes has left IRC (Ping timeout)
17:32 Caspian: Through this table, people can see the "town plan".
17:32 AstronomerArlon has joined (webchat@192.200.144.22)
17:32 Caspian: And can work to bring the town to a reality,
17:32 Thared has joined (webchat@68.156.159.10)
17:32 Caspian: Opening the flood gates... please don't drown me,
17:32 Caspian has changed mode: -m
17:32 Innese: Does a Well/Tavern require that you have 3/9 parcels? I was hoping to do a roadside Tavern in the middle of nowhere
17:32 Kenlo-Stabby: Does hunger get automatically filled somehow? Do I need a bakery or some such to do that and/or a certain village size?
17:32 Antaryon: Can all the land in a county be sold or are there restricted areas by the game? As in, is there an upper limit to a settlement size?
17:32 Pharazon: Caspian  would still like to know if a count can set taxes arbitrarily high to "force" you off your land because you can't pay your taxes?  also #CastleForLife
17:32 RodrikDumont: Caspian let's say my brother and I both contribute at the Baron level and want our lands to be right next to eachother how does this work?
17:32 WorldEdit: Concerning power being split between elders: How does that work? Probably through votes. But how exactly will finding a decision work. espacially if some elders might just be online every few days? who can put up decisions for voting and what would be the timeframe for voting?
17:32 King_Zultra_I: what have I missed
17:32 AstronomerArlon: im here to read thats it
17:32 Jedzea: How does the IP play into this?
17:32 Derethas: How far outside of established townships must a hamlet be?
17:32 Belzak: Wow, VERY COOL Caspian.
17:32 Kossuth: Caspian - does the adverse system possession system effectively mean a count, duke or king has to visit every plot of land in their fiefdom every 28 days?
17:32 AstronomerArlon: maybe respond oncce or twice
17:32 Imshada: Awesome stuff, Caspian. I feel like we got a lot of new info with all that, thanks! Out of curiosity, how big are the pre-generated towns that can be selected by Counts/Barons from the KS campaign? Are some bigger/closer to becoming cities than others?
17:33 Kat5Khaos: So umm I think we need a dry erase board with a bunch of arrows pointing everywhere.
17:33 Rhaegys: Awesome so far
17:33 Mayor_Teland: Will towns have some sort of military structure available to them also, such as lookout towers, the ability to hire NPC guards and such?
17:33 Derflin_AFK: How do you ensure everyone in the village has a say without a UI? Through just talking to them?
17:33 Pharazon: caspian how do soldiers work in strongholds etc.
17:33 Derethas: Quick Caspian, close the gates!
17:33 Mobius1: Can dukes appoint barons? (Think it was answered, i just dont know)
17:33 GammeaUni: Lot of info, thanks Caspian! It's make easy to planning projects :p
17:33 Dat: does this mean a count or king can assign barons, etc if they give them enogught lanes
17:33 Dat: lands
17:33 garukor: thanks for all so far caspian :)
17:33 Rhaegys: Does you need to have the authorization  of a duke to build a military outpost?
17:33 Caspian has changed mode: +m
17:33 Caspian: Phew.
17:34 Caspian: A Well/Tavern does not need 3/9 parcels of land. Build them wherever you want. You just need the structure, plus land, plus people to register your settlement.
17:34 Chip_Lawrie has joined (webchat@host81-158-81-206.range81-158.btcentralplus.com)
17:34 Caspian: Kenlo-Stabby: Hunger automatically gets filled with the presence of the Tavern. Forgot to mention that, thanks.
17:34 Count_Prisoner has joined (webchat@94.0.142.26)
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17:35 Caspian: All the land in a County can be sold and used as part of a settlement. In fact, the larger settlements, Capitals, may be as large as a small County.
17:35 qwebirc175307 has joined (webchat@cpc76242-cosh15-2-0-cust481.6-1.cable.virginm.net)
17:35 Caspian: Pharazon: We're not to talking about Nobility yet.
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17:35 Caspian: RodrikDumont: Both of you would put your lands next to each and register your independent settlements. No problem.
17:36 Caspian: WorldEdit: Hamlets and Villages have no system of "governing". It's generally going to be no more than 3-5 people.
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17:36 Caspian: Once you get to Towns there's a leader, and a Council, but the Leader is in charge, similar to a Guild and their Officers.
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17:37 Caspian: Once you get to City, where Laws can be made, there will be a system of ratifiying laws in the UI.
17:37 Wellspring_ has joined (webchat@Wellspring.users.quakenet.org)
17:37 Caspian: Towns can have military structures as well for defense.
17:37 Caspian: Nothing prevents you from building those things.
17:37 Ostracism has left IRC (Signed off)
17:37 Caspian: Mobius1: We'll get to Dukes when we get to Nobility
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17:38 Caspian: Dat, we'll get to Kings and Counts when we get to Nobility.
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17:39 Caspian: Rhaegys: An Outpost can be built anywhere. Similar to a hamlet. Same with a fort. When you go beyond that, you'd sign a contract with the Duke that guarantees you resources in exchange for building certain structures, keeping a minimum number of people residing there, etc...
17:39 Caspian: Let me quickly check my notes.
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17:40 Caspian: OK. It is possible to secede from a settlement. But it requires everyone sign the contract.
17:40 Caspian: If you can't get that to happen, the only way to secede is to overthrow the local government.
17:40 Caspian: Good luck with that.
17:40 Argento has joined (webchat@dynamic-acs-72-23-236-60.zoominternet.net)
17:40 Caspian: As for Leasing Land, it works similar to selling the land.
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17:40 Caspian: You use the Town management table to set zones and areas that are to be leased, you fill the table with lease agreements and pin them to the lots.
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17:41 Caspian: People come along, fill out the contracts, and take a copy to lease the land. Now they pay rent, income tax, etc... as identified in the contract, and can build on the land they're leasing.
17:41 TheGlassSpider has joined (webchat@24-241-28-144.static.hlrg.nc.charter.com)
17:41 Caspian: They can't be kicked off unless they violate the lease, however leases can be given a time limit, etc...
17:41 Caspian: Generally you will build structures on the land then lease it to people.
17:42 Caspian: But you could pay someone to build the land and reduce the lease price or agree not to a time limit.
17:42 Caspian: Your choice.
17:42 Wellspring_ has left IRC (Ping timeout)
17:42 Caspian: Now, for collecting the property tax, for a Town+ there's a Town UI. You can see all the people who've paid their lease/rent, and who hasn't.
17:42 Caspian: You can go get the money yourself, or you can send an NPC to collect it.
17:42 Caspian: If that doesn't work, you can hire a Tax Collector to go get it.
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17:43 Caspian: Sigh...
17:43 Caspian has changed mode: -m
17:43 WorldEdit: So when you say people in a village owning more land than others will have more say... How will that look like?
17:43 Mayor_Teland: 8000+ backers! Just had to say. :)
17:43 Belzak: Very cool!!
17:44 King_Zultra_I: So it takes 28 days to adverse possess land, but who will own that land? Say for example I have a number of buildings ordered to be built how can I get them in my name?
17:44 Pharazon: can you expand on tax collector?  strong arm?
17:44 Derethas: What about renting rooms, like in an Inn? How does that formally work? Do they take full possession of the room for a night, as in a lease?
17:44 Caspian: King_Zultra_I: Whoever has the Adverse Possession contract.
17:44 Thazon has joined (webchat@215-242-128-083.dynamic.caiway.nl)
17:44 ross: Are there restrictions on the buildings that can be built in certain areas (like a barracks in a town, etc.) ?
17:44 Jedzea: If a guild buys a bunch of land can they become their own duchy?
17:44 Thazon: Evening folks!
17:44 ross: Hey Thazon
17:44 King_Zultra_I: So can you walk me through Adverse Possession please Caspian?
17:44 Belzak: When we use IP for land claming, does that give us Adverse Possession?
17:44 Kat5Khaos: Zultra that's been done
17:44 Caspian: Derethas: There's a tool similir to the land management tool that works for your individual house. So you can set room rates, let people rent, etc..
17:45 King_Zultra_I: I missed it kat
17:45 Derethas: Great thanks.
17:45 Kat5Khaos: I can tell lol
17:45 Dakota: King_Zultra_I: I have some of the transcrips  I can share in a bit
17:45 Caspian: Belzak: No. When you use IP you take legal ownership of the land.
17:45 Caspian: It's "instant"
17:45 Derethas: King_Zultra_1: I'm sure there will be a DJ with all this detailed, don't worry.
17:45 Caspian: Ah. That reminds me.
17:45 Caspian has changed mode: +m
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17:45 Caspian: So, as I mentioned before. There will be a tool we provide that lets people select their settelments.
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17:45 Camigwen_zzz is now known as Camigwen
17:46 Caspian: Kings pick which Kingdom, Duchy, County, and Settlement they want.
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17:46 Caspian: Dukes pick which Duchy/County/Settlement they want.
17:46 Caspian: Counts pick their County/Settlement, and then Mayors/Barons pick their Settelment.
17:46 WireTablet has joined (~androirc@97-83-152-99.dhcp.eucl.wi.charter.com)
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17:46 Caspian: Upon enterting Exposition, Gentry can wander around with their IP burning a whole in their pocket, and claim any plot of land they want not part of a settlement.
17:47 Caspian: It's as if the land had been in their family for generations.
17:47 Caspian: It's instant.
17:47 Caspian: No adverse possession, no reason to get it from the table.
17:47 Count|Adamar has joined (webchat@71.160.75.135)
17:47 Caspian: It's just "claimed".
17:47 Caspian: Aristocracy work similar.
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17:47 Grograman1 has left ()
17:47 Caspian: As does Nobility
17:47 Grograman1 has joined (~shudon@wsip-70-168-56-106.sd.sd.cox.net)
17:47 Caspian: Once they enter Exposition, they have a finite amount of money/currency which they can spend to buy the land underneath a settlement.
17:47 Caspian: How much land they buy depends on what buildings are on top.
17:48 Caspian: So they could buy the land with the market, the library, and the Town Hall, or the Town Hall, the farms, etc...
17:48 Caspian: Once their currency is spent, that's all the land they can claim, and that becomes the land for that settlement that they own.
17:48 Caspian has changed mode: -m
17:48 Morbis: Will that be first come first serve,  or will nobility have priority over gentry?
17:48 garukor: caspian will the order to choose land and everyting, all be based on IP ranking ?
17:48 Caspian has changed mode: +m
17:49 Caspian: Kings pick their settlements, then Dukes, then Counts, then the Aristocracy.
17:49 Caspian has changed mode: -m
17:49 Morbis: Right, but the land parcels themselvee
17:49 Derethas: How far ahead of the Expo can we expect the initial selection to occur?
17:49 Caspian: As for selecting the individual parcels of land, people will be brought into Exposition based on IP.
17:49 WorldEdit: Do taxes and such still apply to land claimed with IP?
17:49 Chip_Lawrie: Do you have to spend all your currency or can you save it for the game?
17:49 Liva: Will the parcelt of lands in the ip profession kits counts towards that?
17:49 Caspian: Higher IP will have a slight advantage in picking their land. But given the amount of land in the world, it won't be a race.
17:49 kntrytnt has joined (webchat@c-98-251-142-131.hsd1.ms.comcast.net)
17:49 Liva: As in counts, barons etc. can use those too
17:49 Argento_ has joined (webchat@dynamic-acs-72-23-236-60.zoominternet.net)
17:49 Kenlo-Stabby:  Chip_Lawrie IP is removed after exposition
17:50 kntrytnt: Hail, wellborns!
17:50 Kenlo-Stabby: so no, you cannot use it after those three months
17:50 Grograman1: how will purchasing land work for non-nobles?
17:50 Chip_Lawrie: I thought he was talking about 'gold' in excess of IP
17:50 Morbis: So counts will generally be able to grab the good land in their settlements before the plebs appear?
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17:50 Rhaegys:  Nobility that get land with IP can't be use to buy the land of the settlement?
17:50 Belzak: Which makes sense
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17:50 Kenlo-Stabby: Wait... can gold be bought with ip?
17:50 Euronymous|Zzz is now known as Euronymous
17:50 Kenlo-Stabby: oh, there is no gold
17:50 Kenlo-Stabby: that's right
17:50 Euronymous: So... what'd I miss today so far?
17:51 Belzak: Lots Euro
17:51 Belzak: lol
17:51 garukor: too much Euronymous
17:51 Euronymous: ...
17:51 RodrikDumont: Caspien if there is a lake or river can you claim it as your territory and sell water to neighboring villages?
17:51 ross: EVERYTHING
17:51 TolVarus has left IRC (Quit: Page closed)
17:51 Belzak: Im sitting here drooling in awe
17:51 Caspian has changed mode: +m
17:51 Caspian: Ok.
17:51 Caspian: We're getting too detailed.
17:51 Caspian: Moving on.
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17:52 Caspian: For Morbis' question, that's a valid concern.
17:52 Caspian: In general, there's no reason for Counts to "claim" all the land, because they manage it all anyways.
17:52 Caspian: They could always sell it to themselves for $0.
17:52 Caspian: But then, they get no taxes, no revenue, etc...
17:52 Caspian: However...
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17:53 Caspian: There's a case for a Count to try and hold land for his friends to come join him.
17:53 Caspian: So he gets in, claim a dozen or so parcels, and then when his friends join give it to them.
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17:54 Caspian: However, I don't think that'll be a concern, because he won't be able to "claim" the land, as he won't have enough IP, and there won't be any land deeds in any of the tables initially, and no scribes capable of crafting them that quickly.
17:54 Caspian: So I think it's safe to say, Gentry will have a chance to claim their lands before Counts can "buy it all up" for their friends.
17:54 Caspian: Moving on....
17:54 Caspian: Now we're to the good stuff.
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17:54 Caspian: Nobility.
17:54 Verso has joined (webchat@cpe-45-37-106-202.nc.res.rr.com)
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17:55 Caspian: The main questions people have about nobility is "How do I become Noble", "What are my duties as a noble?", and "How do I lose my nobility"?
17:55 Caspian: So lets talk about that...
17:55 Caspian: There's a few ways to become Noble: Mawwaige, Inheritence, Appointment, and Claims.
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17:55 Caspian: Marriage is obvious. If you marry someone and the contract grants you a noble title, you become noble. You can now set laws in your regions and have the other privileges of your rank.
17:56 Caspian: Inheritence: Same thing. If you inherit from a PC or NPC (with Favor) like you did land, you become a Noble.
17:56 Caspian: Appointment.
17:56 Caspian: This one is tricky,
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17:56 Caspian: A noble can appoint another lesser noble If and only iff, there's a vaccum or power struggle.
17:56 Yar has left IRC (Signed off)
17:56 Caspian: This generally only happens during the death of a noble without an heir, or if a title is revoked due to treason.
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17:57 Caspian: If you, as a Count attempt a coup, and fail, your title will likely be revoked, and the Duke can put someone else in your position.
17:57 Caspian: But here's the important thing to note...
17:57 Caspian: I'll say it twice.
17:57 Caspian: A Title can only be revoked due to a Player's Choice of Actions.
17:57 Caspian: A Title can only be revoked due to a Player's Choice of Actions.
17:57 Caspian: You have to risk losing your title for it to be taken away.
17:58 Caspian: We will do what needs to be done to ensure that's the case.
17:58 Caspian: If we've missed an edge case, we'll iterate until we've got all cases covered.
17:58 Caspian: We do not want Nobles tossing their lesser nobles from their "thrones" for no reason.
17:58 Caspian: Ok..
17:58 Caspian: Last one... Claims.
17:58 Caspian: This is the exciting one.
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17:59 Caspian: To claim a Noble Title you have to have a Casus Belli.
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17:59 Caspian: There are three ways you can go about getting a Casus Belli.
17:59 Bluemaze has joined (webchat@136.2.1.112)
17:59 Caspian: Favor, Fame, and Wealth.
17:59 Caspian: Let's say I'm a Mayor of a City in some County.
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18:00 Caspian: If I can get enough "Favor", I can either take over as Count, or if I have enough land I can claim independence and create my own County
18:00 Caspian: What does Favor mean?
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18:00 Caspian: Favor means a willingness by your peers, your Noble's Peers, or your Noble's Noble to support you.
18:01 Caspian: So if you're a Mayor, and you can rally enough other Mayors (probably 2/3), you can claim Casus Belli and attempt to overthrow the Count.
18:01 Caspian: If you've got enough land, you can instead split your land and form your own County.
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18:01 Caspian: All Mayors who agreed to your cause, become Mayors within your County if you succeed in your coup.
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18:01 Caspian: Now...
18:01 Caspian: Before we get to coups, I set you needed enough Favor.
18:02 Caspian: Instead of getting the favor from the other Mayors, you can go up to the other Counts.
18:02 Caspian: Your Count's Peers.
18:02 Caspian: If you can get 50% of your Count's Peers to agree, then you get a Casus Belli.
18:02 Caspian: And can coup.
18:03 Caspian: Alternatively, if you can get 25-30% of your Count's peers and their Duke.... you can coup.
18:03 Caspian: Now, all of that just gives you Casus Belli... the ability to Coup. But here's where the fun starts.
18:03 Caspian: Once you've got the ability to coup, you must either set up a Count Seat in your own lands and declare your independence on the County Map of the former Count....
18:04 Caspian: Or you need to March in and take the County seat.
18:04 Caspian: At this point, it behaves like Adverse Possession.
18:04 Caspian: If you set up a County Seat, and you mark on the Count's Map that your land is now independent, he has 28 days to remove you.
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18:04 Caspian: If he succeeds, you forfeit your titles, a vaccum ensues, and he can appoint a new Mayor.
18:05 Caspian: If you succeed, and he cannot force you off your lands, then contgratulations! You've created a new County!
18:05 Caspian: Option #2...
18:05 Caspian: You march into the County Seat, and Claim the Table as your own.
18:05 Caspian: If you can stay in the County seat for 28 days... you become the new Count.
18:05 Caspian: If you're killed and removed.... well....
18:05 Caspian: Yeah.
18:05 Caspian: You lost.
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18:06 Caspian: All of that was Casus Belli based on Favor.
18:06 Caspian: Next is Fame.
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18:06 Caspian: Each Noble title has its own Famcve.
18:06 Caspian: Fame.
18:06 Caspian: Legendary for Kings, Exalted for Dukes, and Renowned for Counts.
18:07 Caspian: If you can reach the level of Fame just below it: Famous for Counts, Renowned for Dukes, and Exalted for Kings... You can automatically claim Casus Belli on the basis of being Famous.
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18:07 Caspian: Then, the same process ensues.
18:07 Caspian: You establish a new border, or invade the Seat of the old one.
18:07 Caspian: Of course, Being an Exalted Character might give you Casus Belli to claim the title of King...
18:07 Caspian: But you still need an army to defend yourself.
18:08 Caspian: That's where more politics are involved.
18:08 Caspian: The last option is Wealth.
18:08 Caspian: If you're able to accumulate some, yet to be defined amount of wealth based on play-testing, you can effectively buy a Casus Belli.
18:08 Caspian: Of course, you still need the land to claim as your own, and you still need to pay mercenaries in order to invade/defend your new title.
18:08 Caspian: And, if you're on the receiving end of this..
18:09 Caspian: Lets say you're the Count who's just been invaded and you fled your lands.
18:09 Caspian: You'll keep your Title for another 28 days.
18:09 Caspian: During that 28 days you have a free Casus Belli to Counter-Attack.
18:10 Caspian: After the 28 days, your title changed to "Deposed Count/Countess.." and you no longer have Casus Belli to claim that land as your own.
18:10 Caspian: Final comment on that.
18:10 Caspian: You'll have land under the County seat as a noble.
18:10 Caspian: You'll likely also have land elsewhere, not incorporated into the settlement.
18:10 Caspian: The land under you becomes owned by the new Noble... any land you had not part of the settlement remains your private lands.
18:11 Caspian: So if you've got a farm, etc... somewhere you can always flee to that if you need to.
18:11 Caspian: Incidentally, I said with respect to Favor, it had to be your peers, their peers, or their Nobles.
18:11 Caspian: That's true of Count and Duke... For King, there are no Nobles above them.
18:11 Caspian: So you either need the Dukes to rally agains tthe King, or you need to gain Favor with the other Kings.
18:12 Caspian: There's treachery afoot.
18:12 Caspian has changed mode: -m
18:12 Pharazon: how do penalties for pvp work if we are killing people during the attack or defense of these coups?
18:12 King_Zultra_I: Can a Landed noble (with a Casus Beli) swear fealty to someone without a title? So for example my character is Exalted and I get a CB on a King title, how can nobles join me?
18:12 Kenlo-Stabby: So, is there any point in me stabbing a king then, if he can't lose his title? Even if he loses a few months, he can just have an heir be king so he gets to keep the title, assassination would provide no benefit for the risk involved.
18:12 Caeoltoiri-Uni: I've been in class for over an hour and Caspian is still going strong -- hot damn, boss, you're on fire.
18:12 idca: If you plan a coup and die in the other count's seat what happens to your body? If you make it back from the astral plane will you just wake up in the count's home and have to pretend like nothing happened?
18:12 Dat: hey, does this mean your heir can actually die and your family can become extinct, losing their custom sirname too? (overthrowing king, etc.)
18:12 ross: What about Casus foederis, claims obtained though a defensive alliance/mutual defence pact (For example if Kingdom A was to attack your ally Kingdom B it would give you a valid reason to go to war)
18:12 Mobius1: In particular, it seems to me that wealth should be used to buy favor from the other nobles instead of being a casus beli system on its own. but its looking nice
18:12 Verso: Is it 28 RL days or COE days?
18:12 Innese: So say you get disposed. Your heir doesn't have some sort of CB for ancestral land?
18:12 Caspian: 28 RL days
18:12 Verso: ty
18:12 Derethas: Can a noble or usurper forfeit at any point, or must the 28 day period expire?
18:13 RodrikDumont: Caspian what happens in the case of an invading kingdom coming in with an occupying force? Is it still the 28 days?
18:13 Dakota: With respect to religion,  are there any possibilities for a religious zealot to raise a religious army and claim a Casus Beli through that?  Or would they have to be rich first if not a noble?
18:13 West_: If your land is taken, what do you need to do to get it back?  do you just destroy their structure and you have it back or?
18:13 WorldEdit: So any duke is autimatically exalted and thus always has a potential CB to claim his Kings title?
18:13 RodrikDumont: Like I'm a baron from one place and we invade a county and I am left to occupy it?
18:14 Kenlo-Stabby: Does the claimee of casus belli lose when he dies? it would provide more incentive for assassination
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18:14 Kenlo-Stabby: or only when his building is destroyed?
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18:14 Wellspring: When a count is overthrown, what happens to the Barons under him? Do they have any incentive to protect the count?
18:14 Kenlo-Stabby: or vice versa
18:15 Belzak: Wow very good stuff
18:15 Pharazon: if I march in and claim the table does that mean the defending noble has to destroy the building with the table for me to be driven out?
18:15 Caspian has changed mode: +m
18:15 Caspian: Ok.
18:15 Caspian: Let me see if I can address, the sometimes unrelated questions...
18:15 Caspian: A coup is "war-time" So the penalties for attacking/killing are different.
18:15 Caspian: Separate DJ on that.
18:16 Caspian: A landed noble can "follow", mean fight for you, but they cannot regard you as their Noble if you don't have a noble title.
18:16 Caspian: A king that's stabbed and dead creates a power vaccum for some period after death. This opens up an opportunity for the Dukes to coup.
18:17 Caspian: Casus F. is for military alliances, not for gaining power through Casus Belli. Different topic.
18:17 Caspian: However, it does raise a point I forgot to mention.
18:17 Caspian: You actually can get support for neighboring Nobles who are not your noble's peers. In which case, if you win, you actually change domain.
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18:18 Caspian: Ie. If I'm a Mayor and I get help from a neighboring Duke to take over my Count. I become a Count, but in a different Duchy than I was in before. Very messy business.
18:19 Caspian: Derethas: A noble can forfeit by returning their ring to the usurper. If the Usurper gets the rings of the Noble, the titles is revoked immediately and given to the new Noble.
18:19 Caspian: Religion is outside the scope of this discussion.
18:19 Caspian: West_: Adverse possession was covered earlier. Will be in the DJ.
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18:20 Caspian: WorldEdit: Any Duke is already Exlated. Good observation.
18:21 Caspian: I should have said, Fame, Favor, or Wealth to claim the lowest title.
18:21 Caspian: To claim a Duke, or King title, requires Favor and favor alone.
18:21 Caspian: Wealth and Fame are not sufficient, as you have limitless supply of both in most cases.
18:22 Caspian: This  was provided as a way to allow players of different paths to become Noble. Once you're Noble, you must play the Dance of Dynasties.
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18:22 Caspian: Kenlo-Stabby: When the pretender dies. No building needs to be destroyed when you coup
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18:23 Caspian: Wellspring: That's a great question. Forgot to mention that. Coups are devisive.
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18:24 Caspian: If a Mayor coups and invades the County seat, any who supported him maintain their positions. All those on the opposing side must negotiate.
18:24 Caspian: So all Mayors who oppose the coup, should raise arms against the pretender.
18:24 Caspian has changed mode: -m
18:24 Count_Naeous: Caspian: If a Count/Duke/King found out from their peers that X person is trying to get support to Coup, what can you do before they get the Casus Belli? IE a friendly count lets you know your mayor is asking for support to overthrow you.
18:24 Bluemaze: Are these rules/mechanisms any different if the mayor/baron/count/duke/king is a NPC vs PC ?
18:24 Innese: So no ancestral CB/claim if I lose a title/land then come back 2-3 generations later to avenge my father/grandfather/etc?
18:24 Kenlo-Stabby: Can a noble be stabbed and the ring taken off his body by force? So let me get this right, I assassinate a king, window open for belli, 3 of the 5 dukes are against the king and use the right to belli from the king being assassinated, if i then assassinate the king again after belli is declared, does the king automatically lose?
18:24 Danzo_The_Arche: If you're invading would you be able to set up then build a hidden underground structure so the defender has a harder time to oust you or will that not work?
18:25 Zero_Skill: So is land ownership split into 2 types? Land you actually own and land claimed as nobility? So King "claims" a kingdom but only actually owns his private land?
18:25 Derethas: Could a party declare neutrality and sit out the fight, at the risk of angering the eventual winner?
18:25 RodrikDumont: Caspian if I am a count how many people can I make barons and give land to?
18:25 Count_Rojax: Can you buy noble positions after KS closes?
18:25 Arthos_: Caspian roughly how many NPC's do we get if we choose mayor or baron role? I'm a count but since I do get a settlement I'm curious about the benifit between both. I saw the Q&A and you said to go settlement due to space but what other perks do you get?
18:26 Caspian has changed mode: +m
18:26 Caspian: Ok...
18:26 Caspian: Let's see here.
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18:26 Caspian: Count_Naeous: If you find someone is trying to gain power/fame, etc... you'd best deal with them. That's Treason.
18:26 Caspian: If you have evidence, you can revoke their titles, etc...
18:27 Caspian: Bluemaze: This is the same for NPC or PC ruler. Doesn't matter.
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18:27 Caspian: Innese: We'll talk about additional CB's later. There's others.
18:28 Caspian: Kenlo-Stabby: If you assassinate the King, steal his Ring, and one of the other Dukes declare a coup. Then you deliver the ring to the Duke, yes. It's over, he's the new King.
18:28 Caspian: Long live the King!
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18:29 Caspian: Zero_Skill: King Manages the Kingdom, the Duchy, and the County. He owns any land within the County he chooses, however, he probably only actually owns the land under his Capital, and some land here and there, as there's no value to owning land if nobody is using it.
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18:29 Caspian: Derethas: There's no such thing as Neutrallity. Either you want the old Count, or the new one.
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18:30 Caspian: RodrikDumont: I'd have to check the numbers. There's no hard limit. Counties come in all shapes and sizes, and Barons/Mayors exist for each larger settlement.
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18:30 Caspian: Count_Rojax: You can buy a Noble title after KS through PayPal on our website. You can even upgrade your KS pledge post-KS.
18:31 Caspian: Arthos_: It depends on the size of the settlement you choose for your County Seat.
18:31 Caspian: Ok...
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18:31 Caspian: Before I unmute this again... I have  DJ to write.
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18:31 Caspian: My main reason in sharing all of this was to get an overall opinion of the system, make sure there's no glaring things I'm missing...
18:32 Caspian: The one I can think of now which I didn't get to cover was the responsibilities of the Nobility
18:32 Caspian: The Kings are responsible for setting the "success" or "victory" conditions for the Kingdom.
18:32 Caspian: If you think about Civilization, it's the King who decides is this going to be a militant kingdom, a technological kingdom, a cultural kingdom, etc...
18:32 Caspian: Through their Kingdom Managmenet UI they can help drive the direction the kingdom goes.
18:33 Caspian: This uses NPCs or players to communicate to the Dukes and Counts, so they can drive toward that goal.
18:33 Caspian: Also, Kings set Laws for the Kingdom and Taxes for the Kingdom.
18:33 Caspian: Dukes set Laws/Taxes for their Duchy, and are responsible for paying their dues to the King. They're also responsible for the military and defense of their Duchy.
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18:34 Caspian: They manage the Strongholds / Castles / Outposts, they assign Sherrifs to each of the counties, and they appoint Judges to the Courthouses of the Cities.
18:34 Caspian: They can use their map to keep track of crime rates and the sizes of their defensive structures
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18:35 Caspian: In war, the Dukes raise their armies and lead them into battle.
18:35 Caspian: The Counts are responsible for resource management, building up their settlements, establishing wealth and power for the Kingdoms, doing research, etc...
18:36 Caspian: The Count's UI is about creating trade routes, identifying where resources are being gathered, and funneling the money to/from the settlements.
18:36 Caspian: Ok...
18:36 Caspian: I'm going unmute.
18:36 Caspian: If there's any *serious* concerns, let me know.
18:36 Caspian: Otherwise, I'm going to copy/paste this, edit, and put together a DJ for the community at large.
18:37 Caspian has changed mode: -m
18:37 Imshada: Alright, thanks for all the answers Caspian! I feel like we all got a huge amount of new info, which is awesome! Good luck on the DJ and such!
18:37 King_Zultra_I: when you say evidence, what do you mean evidence? would Meta-game evidence count since for example there are many Zygethian counts, we want our own Kingdom, can the host nobles instantly take the titles away as soon as exposition starts?
18:37 Wellspring: @Caspian During a coup, are there any safe periods? Or do you have to defend the throne/table for 24 hours a day, 28 days straight?
18:37 Kenlo-Stabby: Can a Duke coup without the support of any other dukes or kings? In other words... Can Belli be declared either through assassination OR favor? or is it only favor? Because you mentioned a window for Belli opens after a king is assassinated, does this remove the need for favor in other words? This is my final concern.
18:37 DuchessAleerayn: Caspian, during initial land selection, will the King/Queen have ANY say in which Dukes/Duchesses can claim land in their kingdom... and further down the line, respectively? Some of us have put a lot of time into setting up Kingdoms with specific people already, and would like that ability.
18:37 Dat: Hey, just wondering, but what is the worth of being a baron if dukes can just assign people as baron for free
18:37 WorldEdit: Can Fame still be used to claim a Kings title if you were not noble before that? Giving the exalted leader of a great band of mercanaries the ability to claim a kingdom. That would be awesome. ^^
18:37 Bluemaze: Seems too easy for a King to lose his ring especially when just starting out after pay $10K, or I am missing something ? :-)
18:37 Cedricdelance: What about barons
18:37 Derethas: Caspian, what military authority do the Counts have? Or is the role strictly administrative?
18:37 Arthos_: Well the thing is caspian you didn't answer my question really...
18:37 Mant: Damn - stopped at Barons / Mayors  !  :)  ( unless I missed it earlier ? )
18:37 Wargasm: how large can a county be? when all the counts get to pick their land, is it an all at once landrush for the biggest county on the webapp?
18:38 Caspian: Kenlo-Stabby: No. Favor is still required.
18:38 Dakota: Duties of Baron/Mayor?  I may have missed the explination because I came in late.  Mayor- Town development and Baron- Stronghold upkeep?
18:38 Arthos_: Because I figured the larger size the more NPC's but I was wondering more about this "castle" a baron gets. Is it a castle or are we looking at wooden fort at start of game?
18:38 Mant: @dakota  Yep !
18:38 Mayor_Teland: No concerns from this mayor. Thanks for taking the time to explain all of this. There will always be some who don't understand the vision but stressing that it is entirely possible to start from a dirt farmer and end up a king is possible may deflect some P2W concerns.
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18:38 Arthos_: I know that size matters and villages are made for production, forts are military. Just wanted to know the difference if there was much more besides space at game start.
18:38 Kenlo-Stabby: So favor, then assassination, then coup, then deliver ring from assassination, then new king? @Caspian?
18:38 Count_Rojax: Dat has a great question
18:39 Caspian: DuchessAleerayn: You select which Kingdom is yours. Which Dukes come after and pick their Duchy isn't within your control. But at this point, there's not that many Dukes. I wouldn't concern yourself. You can always communicate about it via the forums. I don't think anyone is going to claim a Duchy for King/Queen that doesn't want them.
18:39 Danzo_The_Arche: What would happen to merchants, villagers, etc. when a coup happens?
18:39 RodrikDumont: Caspian how will overpopulation of crafted items/animals be dealt with when someone hasn't logged in for a sizeable  amount of time
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18:39 Kenlo-Stabby: Sorry, just trying to get a clear image of how assassination would work.
18:39 RodrikDumont: Like if a horse breeder is in my city and I have hundreds of horses flooding the streets or rabbits or w/e
18:39 Caspian: Arthos_: There are Outposts, Forts, Keeps, Stronghold, and Castles...
18:40 Caspian: Arthos_: Are you asking if the Castle is made of mud?
18:40 Arthos_: @Caspian lol no you know basic barbarian forts. Where you have sharpened sticks around a wooden walled fort
18:40 Caspian: That would be a fort.
18:40 Vitiry: i think arthos is asking wether you start with a stone castle
18:40 Vitiry: or build up
18:40 Arthos_: Since baron gets a fort I just wanted to know to expect that or if stone castle
18:40 Arthos_: mhm @Vitiry exactly
18:40 Caspian: Uh..
18:41 Kenlo-Stabby: Was my summary correct? favor,assassinate,coup,ring delivery,new king?
18:41 Arthos_: Doesnt' matter either or :P
18:41 Arthos_: just wondering about others who are curious
18:41 Caspian: I'm not sure how to answer that..... Forts, Keeps, Strongholds, and Castles.... uhh, the Castle is a Castle...
18:41 Arthos_: I'm all production first off.
18:41 WorldEdit: Otherwise this sounds really nice. Was a little bit concerned titles would be too easy to hold but this creates enough opportunities for others to mess around. Love the bit with the ring etc. That gives Assassinations some real relevance. All hail the Assassin King. =D
18:41 Vitiry: lol
18:41 Rhaegys: can a noble abdicate in favor of someone that is not a noble?
18:41 Arthos_: lol so big county= bigger "fort/castle"
18:41 Caspian: Rhaegys: A noble can always abdicate their title to someone else.
18:41 King_Zultra_I: Well Fort motte and baileys were castles for much of the 9th-11th centuries AD
18:42 Dakota: Caspian: I think what he is asking is, as a Baron when I pick my pre-determined stronghold. will it be only a stronghold?  or will I have to start with an outpost and build up?
18:42 ross: I think the question is what exactly constitutes a fort/stronghold/castle - the actual differences between them
18:42 Count_Naeous: Caspian: I think Arthos_ Was asking what the stronghold's we get as a count/baron ect would be like, if it would be a fort, or a stronghold, or a castle, ect~
18:42 Wellspring: During a coup, are there any safe periods? Or do you have to defend the throne/table for 24 hours a day, 28 days straight?
18:42 Caspian has changed mode: +m
18:42 Caspian:  Ok. So I thought this had been answered at the beginning.
18:42 Caspian: But let me quickly go over it again...
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18:42 Caspian: There will be counties with different villages, towns, and cities in them.
18:43 Caspian: At the start, the Kings pick their Kingdom, Duchy, County, and Settlement.
18:43 Caspian: They will likely pick a large City as their settlement.. because they're kings. If they choose a military base as their seat of power... they may pick one of the Castles.
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18:43 Caspian: Then the Dukes come, then the Counts, and finally the Aristocracy.
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18:44 Caspian: The Mayors/Magistrates and Barons will have their choice of the remaining settlements. There may be big ones, little ones, some in defensive positions, some with good access to water, some in the mountains, some in forests, and some in the desert.
18:44 Caspian: Pick whichever settlement you want, for whatever reasons you want.
18:44 Caspian has changed mode: -m
18:44 Wargasm: @caspian is there some sort of system that will be inplace for the webapp for picking your county? or will 300 counts have to click faster than eachother to get the land they want
18:44 CharliesDragon: So first come, first serve, the biggest and best places will be picked off first.
18:44 vernes: good thing we have forensics with all these assassinations.
18:44 Dat: Caspian, answer please! I need to know what is the point of becoming a baron when dukes can assign people as them for free?
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18:45 Kenlo-Stabby: so delivering a ring from looting the King's corpse makes him automatically lose and the 28 days no longer matters, right?
18:45 Caspian has changed mode: +m
18:45 Caspian: Dat At what point in this conversation did I say you can appoint a baron?
18:45 Caspian: You cannot appoint barons...
18:45 Caspian: Unless there is a vaccum... missing baron, baron breaks the law, gets exhiled, etc...
18:45 Caspian: I think I even said it twice.
18:46 Caspian: 9:57:12 AM) Caspian: I'll say it twice.
18:46 Caspian: (9:57:22 AM) Caspian: A Title can only be revoked due to a Player's Choice of Actions.
18:46 Caspian: (9:57:32 AM) Caspian: A Title can only be revoked due to a Player's Choice of Actions.
18:46 Caspian has changed mode: -m
18:46 Syckness|Work: Please don't Demand answers. Caspian is doing this to get some feedback. There's too many questions out of scope.
18:46 Caspian has changed mode: +m
18:46 Caspian: Yep.
18:46 Caspian: I'm out.
18:46 Camigwen: @Wargasm - Nobility will choose their land  in descending IP order within their noble ranks
18:46 Caspian: At the point you guys start demanding answers to your questions I'm done.
18:46 Camigwen: I'll answer what I can now, but I'm no Caspian.
18:46 King_Ravensong has left IRC (Signed off)
18:46 Caspian: Thanks for the feedback.
18:46 Caspian has changed mode: -m
18:46 Kenlo-Stabby: Alright, thanks caspian, wish you luck with the journal
18:46 Blacklisted: thanks for the info Caspian
18:46 CharliesDragon: Thanks for sharing, though. :)
18:46 Mayor_Teland: Thank you!
18:46 Morbis: I mean, one dude kind of demanded an answer...
18:46 Vitiry: can't wait for the DJ
18:47 Wellspring: thanks caspian
18:47 Camigwen: that was a whole lot of info all at once to digest.
18:47 Kat5Khaos: I go to play one csgo game and you chase him away *facepalm*
18:47 Baron_Davidxbo: Thanks for sharing
18:47 Brynath: Could a count who owns land in his county create a barony with land that he owns?
18:47 Morbis: Anyway, looking forward to the DJ
18:47 WorldEdit: Sry Caspian if we seem a little impatiant at times. Thank you for sharing though
18:47 BicycleWalrus: Thanks Caspian! Hello Camigwen
18:47 Deffcon_1Work: greetings
18:47 Derflin_AFK: Thanks for answering questions and giving info Caspian!
18:47 Camigwen: Morbis: it's more that Caspian needs to spend the time writing the DJ so that it can get out to a larger community.
18:47 Mayor_Teland: Yep. I vote we stop the questions and give him time to write :)
18:47 Jedzea: Thank you for every thing you do, Caspian
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18:47 Morbis: Camigwen: Yeah, I get that
18:47 Deffcon_1Work: looks like i walked into something interesting goingo n
18:47 ross: Cheers
18:47 Deffcon_1Work: going on*
18:47 Talonvoren: Honestly feel bad for Caspian. Guy has it pretty rough. Respect.
18:47 Mayor_Teland: Hi Camigwen how are you?!
18:47 Camigwen: Brynath: you'd have to get the support of others or gain fame in order to break off a new area into a barony
18:47 CharliesDragon: Oh, the KS is up to 969K!
18:47 CharliesDragon: Good news.
18:48 Mayor_Teland: and 8020 backers :)
18:48 Darmky: thanks Caspian! : D
18:48 CharliesDragon: Actually tipped 970 K.
18:48 CharliesDragon: So I bite my thumb at the trolls!
18:48 Count_Naeous: Well that was informative. Glad I checked in when I did :D
18:48 Deffcon_1Work: Camigwen, is it possible to gain enough fame and support and break away from a kingdom and found a new one?
18:48 Jedzea: Ditto -- what a great time to come on!
18:48 Count_Naeous: Cheers for the info Caspian , answered a lot of questions my friendsa nd I had about it
18:48 Camigwen: yeah, i tried to keep up with it all, but it's a lot to take in.
18:48 Deffcon_1Work: i know if possible itd be incredibly hard, but just wondering
18:48 Brynath: Thanks Camigwen.
18:48 Innese: We're up to 10 dukes!
18:48 Camigwen: @Deffcon_1Work I believe so.
18:49 Mayor_Teland: I was gonna wait until the IP list to contribute more but I'm upping $100 just based on the info Caspian provided.
18:49 GammeaUni: This is a lot of info, thanks for share with us Caspian. Hello Camigwen! :)
18:49 Morbis: Deffcon_1Work: It sounded like that is a thing that can happen, yes
18:49 Deffcon_1Work: that could lead to some fun times
18:49 Morbis: Deffcon_1Work: A Duke with a Casus Belli can form his own kingdom
18:49 Morbis: Deffcon_1Work: Just like a Mayor with a Casus Belli can form his own County
18:49 Wargasm: i just could see an issue releasing so many people at once on a webapp, many people will have the same ip and come in at the same time and all be looking for the best land
18:50 Rhaegys:  Camigwen: the only feedback I have is that you need to release the DJ as soon as you can... This system looks very good and this will more likely increase the backing
18:50 Jedzea: But learning curve might be a bit -- whoa a lot of info, waiting for DJ to digest then I might have to invest more
18:50 Camigwen: can i get a sense of general feedback on each of the larger areas Caspian presented?
18:50 WorldEdit: Camigwen: so im not sure if i got that right: when eyactly does a CB through fame apply? Only when you're not in possession of a noble title yet? But it does give a non noble Player the opportunity to raise an army against a King?
18:50 Thorin has left IRC (Quit: Page closed)
18:50 Camigwen: Rhaegys: Caspian is writing it up now.  that was the point of coming to IRC, to make sure all of the i's are dotted & t's are crossed
18:50 Deffcon_1Work: i missed it :( so no feedback from me today
18:50 Morbis: Camigwen: As a very PvP orientated player, I'm interested in what I hear. I need mechanical details for real hype, but it sounds like a good base
18:50 Talonvoren has left IRC (Ping timeout)
18:50 Jedzea: So the IP that we gathered PRIOR to KS counts, right?
18:51 CharliesDragon: The IP currently shown on the site/forum? Yeah, but it might be readjusted.
18:51 CharliesDragon: I think...
18:51 Camigwen: @WorldEdit I'd have to read through what Caspian said again to get the exact answer to that.
18:51 Kenlo-Stabby has left IRC (Quit: Page closed)
18:51 Morbis: The current IP rankings are entirely inaccurate
18:51 Deffcon_1Work: Jedzea, the IP gained through referrals is all just potential IP
18:51 Camigwen: CharliesDragon: current IP on the site is incorrect.  we can't fill it in until we have backers tied to CoE accounts.
18:51 Innese has left IRC (Ping timeout)
18:52 Camigwen: since IP is potential until the people you refer back the game themselves.
18:52 Deffcon_1Work: it only counts if the referred person got 400 real IP or backedthe game
18:52 CharliesDragon: That's what I thought.
18:52 Derflin_AFK: It sounds like you guys put a ton of thought into this part of the game. that definitely came through. it was really impressive @Camigwen
18:52 Jedzea: DEF
18:52 Wargasm: i mean a lot of people who backed it arent shown on the forum yet because its not linked to their account. but a majority of the counts for example will have the same IP
18:52 Wargasm: so its basically just a land rush on the webapp
18:52 Deffcon_1Work: Wargasm, they might do it in backing order
18:52 Camigwen: Wargasm: i doubt that.  a bunch of people will purchase IP separately, have referred people, etc.
18:52 Morbis: It really depends on how freely they throw about content-rewarded IP
18:52 CharliesDragon: No matter how they do it some will come before others.
18:53 DuchessAleerayn: @Camigwen This was presented very clearly, and please thank Caspian for us. The only additional information that we haven't yet received, which will be a huge help, would be the ratios that are being planned. Duchies:Kingdom, Counts:Duchy, Counties:Duchy.
18:53 Jedzea: Deffcon_1Work: I had all my guildies join and that tells me I would have to BUY new IP
18:53 Morbis: Like, if my videos actually earned me any IP or not. Nobody really knows atm
18:53 Cedricdelance has left IRC (Ping timeout)
18:53 ross: Nah Morbis, they lose you iP
18:53 Morbis: Ross I knew it!
18:53 WorldEdit: Camigwen: Hmm okay. ^^ Anyhow aside from details having to be worked out this sounds pretty good. I like the amount of opportunities this allows to take over titles. Not too less and not too many. Should make for some interesting Stories. =)
18:54 Wargasm: yeah its fine that way, im just rying to understand how it will work
18:54 King_Zultra_I: congradulations Fyradeen you won the tactical Contest https://chroniclesofelyria.com/forum/Fan-Fiction/6491-2nd-Monthly-Tactical-Contest--WINNER
18:54 Jaspurc: THANK YOU CASPIAN! i just got back from the store and finished reading this all :) sounds great!
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18:55 Camigwen: @DuchessAleerayn we have that info already.  ~3-5 Kingdoms/server.  ~5-8 Dukes/Kingdom. ~16-50 Counties/Duchy (hugely variable based on County size).
18:55 Arthos_ has left IRC (Quit: Page closed)
18:55 ross: So counties aren't a fixed size (in parcels)
18:56 Camigwen: Wargasm: the idea is to form alliances on the forum before the web app is released, so you'll pretty clearly know which areas you want before it opens.  you'll also know which are already taken, so you can exclude those as options.
18:56 Wellspring: how many towns / strongholds per county?
18:56 Jedzea: Deffcon_1Work: That was hard work on just concept alone :(
18:56 Caeoltoiri-Uni: Wellspring: Depends on the size of the county.
18:56 Camigwen: ross: correct.  it has more to do with the land itself (rivers, towns, resources, etc.)
18:56 WorldEdit: Wow those are not a lot of kingdoms ^^
18:56 Darmky: @Camigwen About the map, will it be entirely generated randomly OR the general landscape is downloaded from a geographic database then the trees, rocks, animals, plants, etc. will be randomly generated? It's not the today's topic but if you have an idea, please answer : ) Thanks
18:56 WorldEdit: thats actually good i think
18:56 Wargasm: but someone who gets the app to load quicker can ruin your plans anyway
18:56 Syckness|Work: Can someone keep in mind to open an IRC during the land selection so there can be some discussion as it's going on?
18:57 Camigwen: WorldEdit: that's per server.  each server will have up to 100K players.
18:57 Bluemaze: Anyone logged on from the beginning that has the whole discussion ?
18:57 Caeoltoiri-Uni: Darmky: It will be mostly procedurally generated, with hand-made scenes interspersed throughout.
18:57 WorldEdit: thats a scope wehre being a king brings some real influence
18:57 Syckness|Work: I havn't sided with anyone but don't want to make instant enemies when choosing a county
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18:57 Caeoltoiri-Uni: Bluemaze: i have it. I'll make a log :) But Caspian is making a DJ so you'll get it anyways
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18:57 Camigwen: Syckness|Work: absolutely.  or discord.  plus it will be more drawn out than a land rush.
18:57 Morbis: 3-5 kingdoms to start with. RISE UP! KILL THE MASTERS
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18:58 Morbis: When everyone is a King, nobody is!
18:58 King_Zultra_I: This makes making Zygethia possible.
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18:58 WorldEdit: Will it be possible to split of from a kingdom through declaring independance?
18:58 Brynath: Some kings will be more equal morbis
18:58 Syckness|Work: Thank you Camigwen :)
18:58 RodrikDumont: Hey I'm a Count looking for a Duchy to pledge to anyone in here a Duke?
18:58 DuchessAleerayn: Thank you, Camigwen.
18:58 Morbis: WorldEdit: If the mechanics work for Kingdoms as they do for Counties, I imagine they do.
18:58 King_Zultra_I: Get my character to a renowned fame then take a county
18:58 Camigwen: WorldEdit: you'd need to have the fame/wealth/power to break off and form your own kingdom
18:59 Deffcon_1Work: so, another question, would it be possible for a king to split his kingdom up willingly and let a duke become the king of the new area?
18:59 Morbis: Vassal Kings!
18:59 Camigwen: Deffcon_1Work: hrm...dunno
18:59 Morbis: I mean, the Duke could just start a rebellion and the King doesn't do anything about it
18:59 Morbis: No?
19:00 Jedzea: Can we get an answer on the IP BEFORE KS, so that I can plan accordingly and some of us were counting on using that to start our own hamlets
19:00 Morbis: It's essentially the same thing
19:00 Deffcon_1Work: it was said that there was some meeting the kings would have to define borders and the like every so often, i thought why wouldnt a king be able to just draw their borders and take a chunk of their land out
19:00 Deffcon_1Work: then let a well known duke take over
19:00 WorldEdit: Camigwen: Yeah but thats neat. Just imagine some huge wealthy City becoming a kind of "Free City" and forming their own kingdom =)
19:00 Camigwen: Jedzea: yes, we should have the full IP tables before the end of KS, but keep in mind that you can continue purchasing IP on the site after the KS ends
19:00 RodrikDumont: Camigwen how will overpopulation of horses and crafted goods through afkers be dealt with when they log out in yur town for months at a time?
19:00 ross: I can picture it now.. the City-State of Trumpville, surrounded by 60ft high walls of glimmering marble
19:01 Morbis: 10ft higher!
19:01 vernes: I just hope the whole magic thing will expand more and more as we start to play.
19:01 Morbis: MEGA!
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19:01 Deffcon_1Work: vernes, not me, i think magic should stay super rare
19:01 Morbis: Make Elyria Great Again
19:01 Camigwen: RodrikDumont: adverse possession
19:01 Caeoltoiri-Uni: RodrikDumont: Nothing's really stopping you from stealing a horse, except maybe stealing is illegal.
19:01 Wargasm: it just seems kind of hard to get a feel of who is a duke etc to even start a discussion, i see only 3/10 listed on the forum in the confirmed post
19:02 vernes: Deffcon_1Work, rare? sure. But an entire system I hope.
19:02 Mayor_Teland: Camigwen: do you have a feeling for if you will raise IP costs after KS?
19:02 ross: I don't think overpopulation will be much of an issue, literally free horses walking around
19:02 Deffcon_1Work: oh i think there is an entire system already
19:02 RodrikDumont: So like if someone logs in my county and they have like a ton of horses building up because they are breeding them I would then take their horses after a certain time period and sell tehm?
19:02 Camigwen: Wargasm: we have a looooong time to go before exposition, so after the rush of KS is over, we'll have more forums dedicated to learning who the nobles are so you can make alliances
19:02 Jedzea: Camigwen: Thank you -- I will be looking for that, so I can let my guildes know
19:02 vernes: Deffcon_1Work that goes beyond damage / heal?
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19:03 ross: Camigwen: Make sure there is a Guides section!
19:03 RodrikDumont: Camigwen is there any ideas on when Alpha 1 is scheduled to start?
19:03 DuchessAleerayn: Wargasm, two of the Dukes/Duchess (myself included) on NA are in Dol Aderyn, and welcome visitors to our Town Square discord channel.
19:03 Deffcon_1Work: yeah, some talents we have heard of are shapeshifting, planes walking, being a medium, waterbreathing
19:03 Camigwen: RodrikDumont: yes.  after a 28 day period you could claim the land, and then if you hold it for 28 days, you'd become the brand new owner of overpopulated horses
19:03 ross: There's a guide I want to make, just need more info on what direction you guys are going (and somewhere to put it!)
19:03 Deffcon_1Work: a lot more than just fireballs and heals
19:03 Caeoltoiri-Uni: Camigwen: I love the way you put that
19:04 WorldEdit: Camigwen canyou give any information to how populations of plants and animals will be managed? Since you mentioned breeding before i would assume creature dont spawn randomly but actually get born. Will the players be able to kill off wintire populations of creatures in certain areas causing them to be extinct?
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19:04 CharliesDragon: Yes, WorldEdit...
19:05 CharliesDragon: You can breed, kill off populations, all those real-world things.
19:05 Camigwen: WorldEdit: correct, all animals age & die and can be bred.  extinction is a thing, and we'll have to work with the Alpha & Beta testers to get a good balance of breeding vs. death to make that happen rarely.
19:05 WorldEdit: sounds fun ^^
19:05 Deffcon_1Work: was there any more talk about cross breeding animals or cross breeding plants?
19:06 CitrusKiss_work: Looking through my history and just noticed thatcaspian started talking about nobility and aristocracy right before irrcloud logged me out -.- dang it
19:07 vernes: I realize I must become an zookeeper
19:07 ross: Yup, a whole bunch abotu adverse possession and stuff like that too
19:07 Camigwen: Deffcon_1Work: not yet
19:07 MrBin: Can wild animals breed without human (or NPC) intervention?
19:07 ross: Where do you think baby animals come from?
19:07 CharliesDragon: Mules are technically crosses between horses and donkeys, but Elyrian mules might work differently. :P
19:07 CharliesDragon: MrBin, of course they can...
19:08 Caeoltoiri-Uni: CitrusKiss_work: I'll be making a log for those that missed the full talk. I'll link the document when it's done -- though that won't be for another 15 minutes or so as I'm heading home. Just got out of class
19:08 WorldEdit: So given an unresponsible management of environment players might actually be forced to leave certain areas because they cant sustain them anymore? However unlikely that might be?
19:08 ross: I already got all of the Adverse possession stuff here if you missed it: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1xSIb-_lDFlcqLp_g5-jC-W1UL-hePfUUmG2Ir6ElKAo/edit
19:08 Caeoltoiri-Uni: sobs
19:08 ross: Sort of half edited because it was depressing me before I finished
19:08 Hrisskar: Thanks Ross.
19:08 Caeoltoiri-Uni: Depressing?
19:09 Derflin_AFK: ross: what's wrong with the AP stuff?
19:09 ross: The logs for this client has the most irritating layout
19:09 Caeoltoiri-Uni: What client are you using?
19:09 ross: I was having to edit the timestamps and format each line individually
19:09 ross: LimeChat
19:09 ross: It's my fault, I forgot to change the settings lol
19:09 Caeoltoiri-Uni: Oh my
19:09 Derflin_AFK: oh ok. not the content that was depressing you. gotcha
19:09 vernes: Who will join me in making a zoo to repopulate the world after we drove it to instiction?
19:10 CharliesDragon: Yes, WorldEdit, places can become uninhabitable.
19:10 Caeoltoiri-Uni: vernes: The Kardia Cooperative is already on it :)
19:10 vernes: nice
19:10 vernes: :)
19:10 Ulfnaor has joined (~d.stamand@24-230-240-117.hy.cgocable.ca)
19:10 CharliesDragon: Or at least lose a lot of resources.