Nixon Dean Haldeman September 15 1972

longThe first White House meeting between John Dean and Richard Nixon, where they discuss a variety of subjects connected to Watergate and the cover-up. These include Nixon's belief that political wiretapping is a common practice and was done in the 1968 campaign; undermining Senator Wright Patman's investigation of the financing of the Watergate break-in through Gerald Ford; retrieval of the "red box", a wiretapping device placed in DNC headquarters during one of the break-ins; the first mention of an enemies list of those who've acted against them during this time of crisis. "I want the most, I want the most comprehensive notes on all of those that have tried to do us in," says Nixon. "They are asking for it and they are going to get it." Reprisals are threatened against lawyer Edward Bennet Williams and the Washington Post. "The main thing is the Post is going to have damnable, damnable problems out of this one," says Nixon. They also threaten to use depositions of DNC members as blackmail, that DNC members were using the headquarters for sexual liaisons, and the break-in was part of an attempt to hide these affairs. This kind of payback, ironically, was eventually used against Dean after he turned against Nixon, with the allegation made that he had initiated the burglary to retrieve materials which suggested that his wife was part of a D.C. call girl ring.

Audio file from the clip can be found here (this segment runs from 2:43-35:45):
http://www.nixonlibrary.gov/forresearchers/find/tapes/tape779/779-002.mp3

Introduction is taken from Stanley Kutler's Abuse of Power; transcript is taken from Mary Ferrell:
https://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do;jsessionid=3B4B268894C8503259E336F0979655CE?docId=144970

The "red box" is discussed in this contemporary article:
http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/White%20Materials/Watergate/Watergate%20Items%2013573%20to%2013797/Watergate%2013655.pdf

Clip featuring audio accompanied by transcript is on youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eN_wbfP_K1U

SEPTEMBER 15, 1972: THE PRESIDENT, DEAN, AND HALDEMAN,
5:27-6:17 P.M., OVAL OFFICE

This fateful meeting gives the lie to Nixon's later claims that he never met John Dean until late February 1973. Dean, the cover-up's chief field officer, reports to the man on top. Seven indictments had been handed down earlier in the day. Dean promises the President a clear path, at least through the November election. He talks about his effort to quash the proceedings of Wright Patman's House Bank and Currency Committee investigation, which looked very promising. From then on, the talk is a general, familiar one of the President's advocacy of war upon his enemies. This tape was used in the 1974 criminal trial of Nixon's top aides.

NIXON
Well, you had quite a day today, didn't you? You got, uh, Watergate, uh, on the way, huh?

DEAN
Quite a three months.

HALDEMAN
How did it all end up?

DEAN
Uh, I think we can say "Well" at this point. The, uh, the press is playing it just as we expect.

HALDEMAN
Whitewash?

DEAN
No, not yet; the, the story right now--

NIXON
It's a big story.

DEAN
Yeah.

NIXON
(unintelligible)

HALDEMAN
Five indicted.

DEAN
Plus-

HALDEMAN
Just so they have the fact that one of--

DEAN
-plus two White House aides.

HALDEMAN
Plus, plus the White House former guy and all that. That's good. That, that takes the edge off whitewash really--which--that was the thing Mitchell kept saying that...

NIXON
Yeah.

HALDEMAN
-that to those in the country, Liddy and, and, uh, Hunt are big men.

DEAN
That's right.

NIXON
Yeah. They're White House aides.

DEAN
That's right.

HALDEMAN
And maybe that -- Yeah, maybe that's good.

NIXON
How did MacGregor handle himself?

DEAN
I think very well. He had a good statement. Uh,he said that the, uh, the Grand Jury indictment speaks for itself and that, uh, it's now time to realize that some apologies may be due.

HALDEMAN
Fat chance. [laughs]

DEAN
Yeah. (unintelligible)

NIXON
We couldn't do that (unintelligible) just remember all the trouble they gave us on this. We'll have a chance to get back at them one day. How are you doing on your other investigations? Your -- How does this (unintelligible)

DEAN
(unintelligible) end of the, uh--

HALDEMAN
What's happened on the bug?

NIXON
-hard to find -- on the what?

HALDEMAN
The bug.

DEAN
The second bug. There was another bug found in the phone of, uh, the first--

NIXON
You don't think it was one left over from the previous job?

DEAN
We're--Absolutely not.

NIXON
(unintelligible)

DEAN
The, Bureau, has, uh, checked and re-checked. The man who checked the phone first said that his first check was thorough and it was there in the instrument (clear throat) and that indeed it had to be planted after...

NIXON
What the hell do you think is involved? What's your guess?

DEAN
I think the DNC planted it, quite clearly.

NIXON
You think they did it?

DEAN
Uh huh.

NIXON
Deliberately?

DEAN
(unintelligible)

NIXON
Well, what in the name of Christ did they think that anybody was -- They really want to believe that we planted that?

HALDEMAN
Did they get anything on the fingerprints?

DEAN
No latents at all.

HALDEMAN
There weren't any?

DEAN
Neither on the telephone or on the, uh, on the bug. The, uh, well, the FBI has unleashed a full blast investigation over at the DNC starting with O'Brien right down.

HALDEMAN
Using the same crews now that they have nothing to do in Washington.

DEAN
The same Washington Field Officer as well as...

NIXON
What are they doing? Asking them what kind of questions?

DEAN
Anything that they can think of because what happened, O'Brien has charged the Bureau with failing to, uh, find all the, all the bugs, whenever (unintelligible).

HALDEMAN
Good, that'll make them mad.

DEAN
So, so, Gray is pissed now and his people are pissed off. So they're moving in because their reputation's on the line. That's, uh, do you think that's a good development?

NIXON
I think that's a good development because it makes it look so God damned phony, doesn't it? The whole--

DEAN
Absolutely.

NIXON
Or am I wrong?

DEAN
No, no sir. It, it--

NIXON
--looks silly.

DEAN
If we can, if we can find that the DNC planted that, the whole story is going to -- the whole -- just will reverse.

NIXON
But how will you, how could you possibly find it, though?

DEAN
Well, there's a way. They're, they're trying to ascertain who made the bug.

NIXON
Oh.

DEAN
If they -- It's a custom-made product.

NIXON
Oh.

DEAN
If they can get back to the man who manufactured it, then they can find out who he sold it to, and how it came down through the chain.

NIXON
Boy, you know, you never know. When those guys get after it, they can find it. They -

DEAN
The resources that have been put against this whole investigation to date are really incredible. It's truly a larger investigation than was conducted against, uh, the after inquiry of the JFK assassination.

NIXON
Oh.

DEAN
And good statistics supporting that Kleindienst is going to have a--

HALDEMAN
Isn't that ridiculous though?

DEAN
What is?

HALDEMAN
This silly ass damn thing.

NIXON
Yeah.

HALDEMAN
That kind of resources against--

NIXON
Yeah for Christ's sake (unintelligibie)

HALDEMAN
Who the hell cares?

NIXON
Goldwater put it in context, he said, "Well, for Christ's sake, everybody bugs everybody else." We know that.

DEAN
That was, that was priceless.

HALDEMAN
Yeh, I bugged--

NIXON
Well, it's true. It happens to be totally true.

DEAN
(unintelligible)

NIXON
We were bugged in '68 on the plane and bugged in '62, uh, even running for Governor. God damnedest thing you ever saw.


DEAN
It was a shame that that evidence of the fact that that happened in '68 was never preserved around. I understand that only the former Director had that information.

HALDEMAN
No, that's not true.

DEAN
There was direct evidence of it?

NIXON
Yeah.

HALDEMAN
There's others who have that information.

NIXON
Others know it.

DEAN
DeLoach?

NIXON
DeLoach, right.

HALDEMAN
I've got some stuff on it, too, in the bombing halt study. 'Cause it's all -- that's why, the, the stuff I've got we don't--

NIXON
The difficulty with using it, of course, is that it reflects on Johnson.

DEAN
Right.

NIXON
He ordered it. If it weren't for that, I'd use it. Is there any way we could use it without reflecting on Johnson? How -- Now, could we say, could we say that the Democratic National Committee did it? No, the FBI did the bugging though.

HALDEMAN
That's the problem.

DEAN
Is it going to reflect on Johnson or Humphrey?

HALDEMAN
Johnson. Humphrey didn't do it.

DEAN
Humphrey didn't do it?

NIXON
Oh, hell no.

HALDEMAN
He was bugging Humphrey, too. [laughs]

NIXON
Oh, God damn.

HALDEMAN
[laughs]

NIXON
Well, on the other hand, maybe, uh - I'll tell you who to call. I want you to ask Connally. Whatever he thinks, maybe we ought to just, just let that one fly. I mean, I don't think he will, I don't think he will (unintelligible) Johnson. (Unintelligible) Also it reflects on the Bureau. (unintelligible)

DEAN
(unintelligible)

NIXON
They, they, they hate to admit that--

HALDEMAN
It's a rough one on them with, with all this stuff about they don't do Congressmen, and all that...

NIXON
That's right.

HALDEMAN
-sort of stuff (unintelligible)

NIXON
I--

HALDEMAN
-do a presidential (unintelligible)

NIXON
It isn't worth it. It isn't worth it. Damn it, it isn't worth -- the hell with it. What is the situation on your, uh, on the, on the little red box? Did they find what the hell that, that is? Have they found the box yet?

DEAN
Gray has never had acess to the box. He is now going to pursue the box. I spoke with him just, just about, uh, oh, thirty minutes ago and Pat said, "I don't know about the box. Uh, don't know where it is now. We never had an opportunity before, when it was first, uh, released in the press there was a box, to go in." But he decided we have grounds now to go in and find out what it's all about.

HALDEMAN
The last public story was that she handed over to Edward Bennett Williams.

DEAN
That's right.

NIXON
Perhaps the Bureau ought to go over--

HALDEMAN
The Bureau ought to go into Edward Bennett Williams and let's start questioning that son-of-a-bitch. Keep him tied up for a couple of weeks.

NIXON
Yeah, I hope they do. They -- The Bureau better get over pretty quick and get that red box. We want it cleared up. (Unintelligible)

DEAN
That's exactly the way I, I gave it to Gray. I, uh, uh --

NIXON
We want it cleared up. We want to get to the bottom of it. If anybody is guilty over here we want to know.

HALDEMAN
(Unintelligible) in the news.

DEAN
Another interesting thing that's developed is, regarding the private litigation we've got is, uh, the Stans' libel action was assigned to Judge Richey.

NIXON
Oh, Christ.

DEAN
Well, now, that's good and bad. Uh, Judge Richey is not known to be one of the intellects on the bench. That's conceded by many that he is uh, uh--

NIXON
(Unintelligible) in his own stupid way he's sort of, uh--

DEAN
Well, he's been thoroughly candid in his dealing with people about the case. He's made several entrees, uh, off the bench, to, to, uh, (1) to Kleindienst; (2) to, uh, his old friend Roemer McPhee, to keep Roemer abreast of what his thinking is. He told Roemer he thought that Maury ought to file a libel action.

NIXON
Did he?

DEAN
[laughs]

NIXON
Good.

DEAN
Uh--

HALDEMAN
Well, can he deal with that case concurrently with the other case?

DEAN
Yeah. The, the fact that the, the civil case came to a halt, that the depositions were halted and he--

HALDEMAN
--opened his calendar for a few days.

DEAN
Well, it did that, and more than that. He had been talking to Silbert, and Silbert, uh, the U.S. Attorney down here, the Assistant U.S. Attorney was saying, "We are going to have a hell of a time drawing these indictments up because of the fact that these civil depositions keep coming out and the Grand Jury's got one eye on this civil case because they don't want to get themselves caught, uh, coming out with indictments and the civil case that is looking differently, so--

UNIDENTIFIED
Would you like to take Clark [Attorney General Clark MacGregor] now, sir?

HALDEMAN
MacGreor's call?

NIXON
Yeah. Go ahead.

DEAN
So, based, based on that, uh, uh, when Silbert had told Richey the, uh -- had a casual encounter -- in fact, uh, it was just in the hall -- Richey, the next thing he does is he stops the civil case so Silbert can get the indictment down.

NIXON
Hm.

DEAN
So it's, it's, uh -- he got, he's got the abuse of process suit also. (Unintelligible).

NIXON
Hello. Yes. Yeah. Hello. Well you still alive? Yeah, yeah. Just sitting here with John Dean and he tells me that, uh, that you, that you're going to probably be sued or some damn thing.

HALDEMAN
Oh, God. (Unintelligible)

NIXON
Did you put that last bug in? Yeah. Due to the fact that I (unintelligible). Yeah. Yeah. Good. Good. (unintelligible) Yeah. Good. Sure. Well, I'll tell you, uh, just don't let this keep you or your colleagues from concentrating on the big game. Yeah, that's right. I mean this, uh, this, this thing is just, uh, you know, one of those side issues and a month later everybody looks back and wonders what the hell the shouting was about. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, well, anyway get a good night's sleep. And don't, don't bug anybody without asking me. Okay? Yeah. Thank you. Always. Okay.

DEAN
Three months ago I would have had trouble predicting where we'd be today. I think that I can say that fifty-four days from now that, uh, not a thing will come crashing down to our, our surprise.

NIXON
Say what?

DEAN
Nothing is going to come crashing down to our surprise, either--

NIXON
Well, the whole thing is a can of worms, as you know. A lot of this stuff went on. And, uh, and, uh, and the people who worked (unintelligible) awfully embarrasing. And, uh, and, the, uh, but the, but the way you, you've handled it, it seems to me, has been very skillful, because you -- putting your fingers in the dikes every time that leaks have sprung here and sprung there. (Unintelligible) having people straighten the (unintelligible). The Grand Jury is dismissed now?

DEAN
That is correct. They'll, they will have completed and they will let them go, so there will be no continued investigation prompted by the Grand Jury's inquiry. The, uh, GAO report that was referred over to Justice is on a shelf right now because they have hundreds of violations. They've got violations of McGovern's; they've got violations of Humphrey's; they've got Jackson violations, and several hundred Congressional violations. They don't want to start prosecuting one any more than they want the other. So that's, uh--

NIXON
They damn well not prosecute us unless they prosecute all the others.

DEAN
That's right. That's right. Well, we are really talking about technical violations that were referred over also.

NIXON
Sure. Sure. What about, uh, uh, watching the McGovern contributors and all that sort of thing?

DEAN
We've got a, we've got a hawk's eye on that.

NIXON
Yeah.

DEAN
And, uh, uh, he is, he is not in full compliance.

NIXON
He isn't?

DEAN
No.

NIXON
Well, now, he has his three hundred committees; have they all reported yet? Have we-we reported ours.

DEAN
Yes we -- Well, we have a couple of delinquent state committees out, uh--

NIXON
Right, but it's done now.

DEAN
If they--

NIXON
(Unintelligible) Have the paper committees all reported, the three hundred or so committees he's supposed to have.

DEAN
We -- no, they have not.

NIXON
Can we say something about that, or have we?

DEAN
Well, one of the things that he has not done, is he has never disclosed the fact that he's got some three hundred committees. That has been a Wall Street Journal piece that picked it up and carried it and, uh--

NIXON
Oh, he has never admitted it publicly?

DEAN
No, he hasn't. And it's quite -- it's a tax sham that he set it up for. And -- It is hard to comprehend why he set up three hundred committees, frankly. Uh, he doesn't need that many, he doesn't have that sort of large contributors, where they have to disburse small (unintelligible)

HALDEMAN
Unless someone's giving nine hundred thousand dollars.

DEAN
That's right.

NIXON
Which could be very possible.

HALDEMAN
He may be getting nine hundred thousand dollars from somebody.

NIXON
From two or three people. He may have some big angels. I don't think he is getting a hell of a lot of small money. I don't think so. I don't believe this crap. I mean if he -- Have you had your Post Office check yet?

HALDEMAN
That John was going to do. I don't know.

NIXON
That's an interesting thing to check.

HALDEMAN
Yeah.

NIXON
You know how little those damn things (unintelligible).

DEAN
(unintelligible) right. As I see it, now, the only problems that, uh, that we have are, are the human problems and we'll keep a close eye on that.

NIXON
Union?

DEAN
Human.

NIXON
Oh.

DEAN
(unintelligible)

HALDEMAN
People--Human frailties, where people fall apart.

DEAN
Human frailties - people getting annoyed and some finger-pointing and false accusations, and any internal dissension of that nature.

NIXON
You mean on this case?

DEAN
On this case. Uh, there is some bitterness between, for example, the Finance Committee and the Political Committee. They feel that they're taking all the heat, and, and, uh, all the people upstairs are bad people and they're not being recognized.

NIXON
Ridiculous.

DEAN
It is -- I mean --

NIXON
They're all in it together.

DEAN
That's right.

NIXON
They should just, uh, just behave and, and, recognize this, this is, again, this is war. We're getting a few shots and it'll be over, and we'll give them a few shots and it'll be over. Don't worry. I wouldn't want to be on the other side right now. Would you? I wouldn't want to be in Edward Bennet Williams', Williams' position after this election.

DEAN
No. No.

NIXON
None of those bastards--

DEAN
He, uh, he's done some rather unethical things that have come to light already, which in -- again, Richey has brought to our attention.

NIXON
Yeah.

DEAN
He went down --

HALDEMAN
Keep a log on all that.

DEAN
Oh, we are, indeed. Yeah.

NIXON
Yeah.

HALDEMAN
Because afterwards that's the guy-

NIXON
We're going after him.

HALDEMAN
That's the guy we've got to ruin.

DEAN
He had, he had an ex parte--

NIXON
You want to remember, too, he's an attorney for the Washington Post.

DEAN
I'm well aware of that.

NIXON
I think we are going to fix the son-of-a-bitch. Believe me. We are going to. We've got to, because he's a bad man.

DEAN
Absolutely.

NIXON
He misbehaved very badly in the Hoffa matter. Our -- some pretty bad conduct, there, too, but go ahead.

DEAN
Well, that's, uh, along that line, uh, one of the things I've tried to do, is just keep notes on a lot of the people who are emerging as-

NIXON
That's right.

DEAN
-as less than friends.

DEAN
Because this is going to be over some day and they're -- We shouldn't forget the way that some of them (unintelligible) --

NIXON
I want the most, I want the most comprehensive notes on all of those that have tried to do us in. Because they didn't have to do it.

DEAN
That's right.

NIXON
They didn't have to do it. I mean, if the thing had been a clo -- uh, they had a very close election everybody on the other side would understand this game. But now they are doing this quite deliberately and they are asking for it and they are going to get it. And this, this -- We, we have not used the power in this first four years, as you know.

DEAN
That's true.

NIXON
We have never used it. We haven't used the Bureau and we haven't used the Justice Department, but things are going to change now. And they're going to change, and, and they're going to get it right--

DEAN
That's an exciting prospect.

NIXON
It's got to be done. It's the only thing to do.

HALDEMAN
We've got to.

NIXON
Oh, oh, well, we've just been, we've been just God damn fools. For us to come into this election campaign and not do anything with regard to the Democratic Senators who are running, and so forth. They're, they're crooks, they've been stealing, they've been taking (unintelligible). That's ridiculous. Absolutely ridiculous. It's not going, going to be that way any more, and, uh--

HALDEMAN
Really, it's ironic, you know, because we've gone to such extremes to do every -- You know, you, you, and your damn regulations with --

NIXON
Right.

HALDEMAN
Everybody worries about.

NIXON
That's right.

HALDEMAN
-about...

NIXON
That's right.

HALDEMAN
-not picking up a hotel bill or anything.

DEAN
Well, I think, we can, I think, I think we can be proud of the White House staff. It really has...

NIXON
That's right.

DEAN
-had no problems of that--

NIXON
Well, that's right.

DEAN
And they're looking, this GAO audit that's going on right now, uh, I think that they have got some suspicion, uh, in even a cursory investigation, which is not going to discover anything, that they're going to find something here. I learned today incidentally, that, that, uh, I haven't confirmed this because it's -- came from the GO, GAO auditor., investigator who's down here, that he is down here at the Speaker of the House's request, which surprised me.

HALDEMAN
Well, God damn the Speaker of the House. Maybe we better put a little heat on him.

NIXON
I think so too.

HALDEMAN
Because he's got a lot worse problems than he's going to find down here.

DEAN
That's right.

HALDEMAN
That's the kind of thing--

NIXON
I know, let the police department go.

HALDEMAN
That's the kind of thing that, you know, you -- What we really ought to do is call the Speaker and say, "I regret to see you ordering GAO down here because of what it's going to cause us to require to do to you."

NIXON
Why don't you just have Harlow go see him and tell him that?

HALDEMAN
Because he wouldn't do it.

NIXON
Hm?

HALDEMAN
'Cause he wouldn't do it.

NIXON
Harlow wouldn't do it, you mean.

HALDEMAN
Harlow would say, "Mr. Speaker--"

NIXON
Yeah.

DEAN
I, I suppose the other area we are going to see some publicity on in the coming weeks because, uh. I think after the, now that the indictments are down, there's going to be a cresting on that. The whitewash charge of course, but, uh, I think we can handle that while the civil case is in abeyance. But Patman's hearings, uh, his Banking and Currency Committee, and we've got to -- whether we will be successful or not in turning that off, I don't know. We've got a plan whereby Rothblatt and Bittman, who are counsel for the five men who were, or actually a total or seven, that were indicted today, are going to go up and visit every member and say, "If you commence hearings you are going to jeopardize the civil rights of these individuals in the worst way, and they'll never get a fair trial," and the like, and try to talk to members on, on that level. Uh--

NIXON
Why not ask that they request to be heard by, by the Committee and explain it publicly?

DEAN
Publicly, they've planned that. What they're going to say is, "If you do commence with these hearings, we plan to publicly come up and say what you're doing to the rights of individuals." Something to do that effect.

NIXON
As a matter of fact they could even make a motion in court to get the thing dismissed.

DEAN
That's another thing we're doing is to, is-

NIXON
Because these hearings--

DEAN
-bring up an injunctive action against, uh, the appearance, say--

HALDEMAN
Well, going the other way, the dismissal of the, of the, of the indictment--

NIXON
How about trying to get the criminal cases, criminal charges dismissed on the grounds that there, well, you know--

HALDEMAN
The civil rights type stuff.

DEAN
Civil rights -- Well that, we're working again, we've got somebody approaching the ACLU for these guys, and have them go up and exert some pressure because we just don't want Stans up there in front of the cameras with Patman and Patman asking all these questions. It's just going to be the whole thing, the press going over and over and over again. Uh, one suggestion was that Connally is, is close to Patman and probably if anybody could talk turkey to Patman, uh, Connally might be able to. Now I don't know if that's, uh, a good idea or not. I don't think he -- don't know if he can. Uh Jerry Ford is not really taking an active interest in this matter that, that is developing, so Stans can go see Jerry Ford and try to brief him and explain to him the problems he's got. And then the other thing we are going to do is we're looking at all the campaign reports of every member of that Committee because we are convinced that none of them have probably totally complied with the law either. And if they want to get into it, if they want to play rough, some day we better say, "Well, gentlemen, we think we ought to call to your attention that you haven't complied A, B, C, D, E, and F, and we're not going to hold that a secret if you start talking campaign violations here."

NIXON
Uh, what about Ford? Do you think so? Do you think he can do anything with Patman? Connally can't be sent up there.

HALDEMAN
No.

NIXON
Connally-

DEAN
I don't think anybody can do anything with Patman. But if, if Ford can get the minority members, uh, together on that one, it's going to be a lot--

NIXON
They've got a very weak man in Widnall [William Widnall, Congressional Representative NJ-R], unfortunately, Heckler [Margaret Heckler, Congressional Represenative MA-R] is all right.

HALDEMAN
Heckler was great.

DEAN
She was great, with, uh--

NIXON
That's what I understand, but you see, Windnall - let's take somebody -- Jerry could talk to him. Put it down, uh, Jerry should talk to Windnall and, uh, just brace him, tell him I thought it was (unintelligible) start behaving. Not let him be the chairman of the Committee in the House. That's what you want?

DEAN
That would be very helpful, to get our minority side at least together on the thing.

NIXON
Jerry's really got to lead on this. He's got to really lead.

HALDEMAN
Jerry should, damn it. This is exactly the thing he was talking about, that the reason they are staying in is so that they can-

NIXON
That's right.

HALDEMAN
-run investigations.

NIXON
Well, the point is that they ought to raise hell about this, uh, this -- these hearings are jeopardizing the -- I don't know that they're, that the, the, the, the counsel calling on the members of the Committee will do much good. I was, I -- it may be all right but -- I was, I -- it may be all right but -- I was thinking that they really ought to blunderbuss it in the public arena. It ought to be publicized.

DEAN
Right.

HALDEMAN
Good.

DEAN
Right.

NIXON
That's what this is, public relations.

DEAN
That's, that's all it is, particularly if Patman pulls the strings off, uh -- That's the last forum that, uh, uh, it looks like it could be a problem where you just have the least control the way it stands right now. Kennedy has also suggested he may call hearings of his Administrative Practices and Procedure Subcommittee. Uh, as, as this case has been all along, you can spin out horribles that, uh, you, you can conceive of, and so we just don't do that. I stopped doing that about, uh, two months ago.

NIXON
Yeah.

DEAN
We just take one at a time and you deal with it based on --

NIXON
And you really can't just sit and worry yourself --

DEAN
No.

NIXON
-about it all the time, thinking, "The worst may happen," but it may not. So you just try to button it up as well as you can and hope for the best. And-

DEAN
Well if Bob--

NIXON
-and remember that basically the damn thing is just one of those unfortunate things and, we're trying to cut our losses.

DEAN
Well, certainly that's right and certainly it had no effect on you. That's the, the good thing.

HALDEMAN
It really hasn't.

NIXON
It has or hasn't?

HALDEMAN
No, it hasn't. It has been kept away from the White House almost completely and from the President totally. The only tie to the White House has been the Colson effort they keep trying to haul in.

DEAN
And now, of course.

HALDEMAN
That's falling apart.

DEAN
The two former White House people, low level indicted, one consultant and one member of the Democratic Council staff. That's not very much of a tie.

HALDEMAN
No.

NIXON
Well their names have been already mentioned.

DEAN
Oh, they've been...

NIXON
Voluminous accounts.

HALDEMAN
And it's, it's been discounted--

NIXON
You know, they've already been convicted in the press.

DEAN
Absolutely.

HALDEMAN
Yep.

NIXON
God damn it, if they'd been communists you'd have the Washington Post and the New York Times raising hell about their civil rights.

DEAN
That's right.

NIXON
Or Manson.

DEAN
That's right.

NIXON
Jesus Christ. If they'd been killers, wouldn't--

DEAN
That's right.

NIXON
Isn't that true?

DEAN
It's absolutely true.

NIXON
These poor bastards are -- well they've been -- they've got no way they can ever -- In fact, they ought to move the, uh, move the trial away from the --

DEAN
Well, there has been extensive clipping by the counsel in this case, and I've gone through some of these clippings and it's just phenomenal the, uh...

NIXON
Yeah.

DEAN
-the amount of coverage this case is getting. They may never get a fair trial, may never get a fair trial. They may never get a jury that can convict them or pull it together. And the Post, as you know, has got a, a, a, real large team that they've assigned to do nothing but this...

NIXON
Sure.

DEAN
-this case. Couldn't believe they put Maury Stans' story about his libel suit, which was just playing goes heavily on the networks last night, and in the evening news, they put it way back on about page eight of the Post...

NIXON
Sure.

DEAN
-and didn't even cover it as a -- in total.

NIXON
I expect that. That's all right. We've (unintelligible)

HALDEMAN
The Post is...

NIXON
The Post has asked -- it's going to have its problems.

HALDEMAN
(Unintelligible)

DEAN
The networks, the networks are good with Maury coming back three days in a row and--

NIXON
That's right. Right. The main thing is the Post is going to have damnable, damnable problems out of this one. They have a television station.

DEAN
That's right, they do.

NIXON
And they're going to have to get it renewed.

HALDEMAN
They've got a radio station, too.

NIXON
Does that come up too? The point is, when does it come up?

DEAN
I don't know. But the practice of non-licensees filing on top of licensees has certainly gotten more...

NIXON
That's right.

DEAN
-more active in the, in the area.

NIXON
And it's going to be God damn active here.

DEAN
[laughs]

NIXON
Well, the game has to be played awfully rough. I don't know - Now, you, you'll follow through with -- who will over there? Who -- Timmons, or with Ford, or -- How's it going to operate?

HALDEMAN
I'll talk to Bill. I think -- Yeah.

DEAN
Dick Cook has been working...on it.

HALDEMAN
Cook is the guy.

DEAN
Dick has been working on it.

NIXON
Maybe Mitchell should--

HALDEMAN
Well, maybe Mitchell ought to -- would, could Mitchell do it?

NIXON
No.

DEAN
I don't really think that would be good.

NIXON
No.

DEAN
I hate to draw him in.

NIXON
Yeah.

DEAN
I think Maury can talk to Ford if that will do any good, but it won't have the same impact, of course, 'cause he's the one directly involved, but I think Maury ought to brief Ford at some point on, on exactly what his whole side of the story is.

HALDEMAN
I'll talk to Cook.

NIXON
Oh, I -- maybe Ehrlichman should talk to him. Ehrlichman understands the law, and the rest, and should say, "Now God damn it, get the hell over with this."

HALDEMAN
Is that a good idea? Maybe it is.

NIXON
I think maybe that's the thing to do (unintelligible). This is, this big, big play. I'm getting into this. So that he -- he's got to know that it comes from the top.

HALDEMAN
Yeah.

NIXON
That's what he's got to know...

DEAN
Right.

NIXON
-and if he (unintelligible) and we're not going to -- I can't talk to him myself -- and that he's got to get at this and screw this thing up while he can, right?

DEAN
Well, if we let that slide up there with the Patman Committee, it'd be just, you know, just a tragedy to let Patman have a field day up there.

NIXON
What's the first move? When does he call his wit -- witnesses?

DEAN
Well, he, he has not even gotten the vote of his Committee; he hasn't convened his Committee yet on whether he can call hearings. That's why, come Monday morning, these attorneys are going to arrive, uh, on the doorstep of the Chairman and try to tell him what he's doing if he proceeds. Uh, one of the members, Garry Brown, uh, wrote Kleindienst a letter saying, "If the Chairman holds Committee hearings on this, isn't this going to jeopardize your criminal case?"

NIXON
Brown's a smart fellow. He's from, he's from Michigan...

DEAN
That's right.

NIXON
...and some tie into Ford. He's very, he's a very smart fellow. Good.

DEAN
Good lawyer and he's being helpful. He is anxious to help.

NIXON
Right, just tell him that, tell, tell, tell Ehrlichman to get Brown in and Ford in and then they can all work out something, but they ought to get off their asses and push it. No use to let Patman have a free ride here.

DEAN
Well, we can, we can keep them well briefed on moves if they'll, if they'll move when we provide them with the, the strategy. And we will have a raft of depositions going the other way soon. We, will be hauling the, the O'Briens in and the like, and uh, on our abuse of process suit.

NIXON
What are you going to ask him? (Unintelligible) questions?

DEAN
No. This fellow, this fellow Rothblatt, who has started deposing, uh, he's quite a character. He's been getting into the sex life of some of the members of the DNC and...

NIXON
Why? How can -- What's his justification?

DEAN
Well, he's working on an entrapment theory that, uh, uh, they were hiding something or they had secret information, affairs to hide and they, they could, some way, conspire to bring this thing about themselves. It's, it's a way-out theory that, uh, no one had (unintelligible)

HALDEMAN
[laughs]

DEAN
Uh, and he, he had scheduled Patricia Harris and she didn't show up. She went to the beauty parlor instead so he went down to the Court House and she had, had been directed to show up and then the next day the Judge cut all the depositions off. But he had a host of wild questions, including, you know, where O'Brien got his compensation when he was Chairman. Not that he knows anything about that, but, uh, it was just an interesting question he thought he might want to ask the, the Chairman under oath.

HALDEMAN
That's -- It gives us, the same hunting license that it gave them.

DEAN
Oh, that's right.

HALDEMAN
So we can play the same game they are playing, but we ought to be able to do better at it.

NIXON
Well --

HALDEMAN
Are those depositions sealed?

DEAN
That's right.

HALDEMAN
They are?

DEAN
But that argues that, uh, they won't want them unsealed. They'll want them unsealed less than we will, and we may be arguing at some point to get them unsealed.

NIXON
Yeah.

DEAN
I think what's going to happen on the civil case is the Judge is going to dismiss the pending complaint down there right now. They will then turn around and file a new complaint which will be heard, or come back to Richey again. That, uh, that'll probably happen the twentieth, twenty-first, twenty-second. Then, twenty days will run until any answers will have to be filed and these depositions will be commenced so we're, what, we're eating up an awful lot of time--

HALDEMAN
On their side.

DEAN
For those next fifty-four days.

NIXON
Why will they have to dismiss the present--

DEAN
Uh, probably on, on a dual ground, uh, both on the substantiative ground that they haven't stated a good cause of action -- that there is an improper class action -- that there is an improper class action filed and that O'Brien indeed doesn't represent any class. Uh, and he'll just dismiss it on the merits. It's not a good complaint. He's already shaved it down to almost nothing on his original order. They will then have to re-design it into a much narrower action, but the Judge himself can't suggest something to counsel. But it's -- you've got a good res judicata argument here. If he dismisses on the merits, uh, that they can't file another suit. They're out of the court totally.

HALDEMAN
But our suits do still hang?

DEAN
Our suits are still -- We have two suits now, we have the abuse of process and...

HALDEMAN
--the libel--

DEAN
-the libel suit.

HALDEMAN
We can take depositions on both of those?

DEAN
Absolutely.

NIXON
Hell yes.

HALDEMAN
[laughs]

NIXON
(Unintelligible) depositions.

DEAN
It's a, it's a glimmer down the road anyway, but, uh--