Nathanael jumping the gun

[22:29] <@barabbas`> WE all have a God detector, many just never turn it on.
[22:30] <+glk4> Satanic swine registers a 10 level
[22:30] * Banquo ([email protected]) has joined #christiandebate
[22:30] * blue0ne sets mode: +v Banquo
[22:30] <+jleija> glk4: why do you demand "detection" from God, but settle for claims for insults?
[22:30] <+CaptainJack> 29Oct22:29:39 <@barabbas`> WE all have a God detector, many just never turn it on.
[22:30] <+CaptainJack> Where is this "God detector" located barabbas` ?
[22:31] <+CaptainJack> Hi Banquo
[22:31] <@barabbas`> Yeah, remember that. It is simple to turn it on as well. Just open your mind.
[22:31] <+glk4> Insults are real. gods are not detected
[22:31] <+jleija> glk4: what makes an insult real?
[22:31] <+CaptainJack> Where is this "God detector" located barabbas` ?
[22:31] <@barabbas`> Just told you, it is located in an open mind.
[22:31] <+jleija> glk4: does it have any matter? weight?
[22:31] <+Banquo> My mind is very open
[22:31] <+glk4> It must make me worse than I am
[22:31] <+Banquo> still no gods detected
[22:32] <+jleija> glk4: are insults even objective? absolute?
[22:32] <@barabbas`> If it were you would be capable of knowing God. You would detect the things that God is telling you.
[22:32] <+glk4> It must make me worse than I am
[22:32] <+CaptainJack> barabbas` - what is your evidence of this? Same as before? None?
[22:32] <+jleija> glk4: "worse"? how can you know what worse means?
[22:32] <@barabbas`> personal experience.
[22:32] <+jleija> glk4: nature is what it is, not what it should be
[22:32] <+CaptainJack> What experience?
[22:32] <+glk4> I study stories about gods
[22:33] <+jleija> glk4: when you claim "worse", it must be against some standard
[22:33] <+Banquo> Describe the experience and show any evidence you recorded
[22:33] <@barabbas`> Personal experience.
[22:33] <+Banquo> Describe the experience and show any evidence you recorded
[22:33] <+glk4> I invented a standard
[22:34] * |WP| is now known as |W|P|
[22:34] <+Banquo> glk4: what is it
[22:34] <+jleija> glk4: ah, ok. it is then your personal, subjective standard
[22:34] <@barabbas`> open your mind for God, release any expectations you have and you will have a personal experience.
[22:34] <+jleija> glk4: should i be held responsible for transgressing your standard?
[22:34] <+Banquo> Describe the experience and show any evidence you recorded
[22:34] <+Banquo> Are you capable of doing that, barabbas`?
[22:35] <+CaptainJack> barabbas` - you're trying to claim that atheists do not have open minds. That is a claim with a considerable burden; I have yet to see you seriously attempt to meet it.
[22:35] <+glk4> Id ismeasured in glk units
[22:35] * +Zumarraga ([email protected]) Quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
[22:35] <+CaptainJack> Your "argument" such as it is falls to reductio *trivially*.
[22:36] <+glk4> All gods are welcome
[22:36] <+CaptainJack> "open your mind for ***, release any expectations you have and you will have a personal experience."
[22:36] <+CaptainJack> Where *** can be pretty much any deity.
[22:36] <@barabbas`> CaptainJack; I am claiming that the reason you don't know God is because you have a closed mind when it comes to God. I know from personal experience that once you open your mind and your heart to God, he will show up.
[22:36] <+glk4> All gods are welcome
[22:36] <+Banquo> Open your mind for the tooth fairy, release any expectations you have and you will have a personal experience
[22:36] <+CaptainJack> Thor, Zeus, Loki, Vishnu, Cthulu, the FSM or IPU ..
[22:37] <+Banquo> Tooth fairy
[22:37] <+CaptainJack> You can't coherently describe this personal experience, over the years you never have.
[22:38] <@barabbas`> Sure, have an open mind to all gods, If you do, once God shows up the rest will be rendered moot.
[22:38] <+CaptainJack> The story changes, indicating you did not experience it, but imagined it.
[22:38] <+Banquo> I used to think a god is real
[22:38] <+Banquo> then i realized no evidence supported that god
[22:38] <@barabbas`> CaptainJack: Its simple, one moment I didn't know God, the next I did. Nothing more to it than that.
[22:38] <+Banquo> CaptainJack: what story?
[22:38] <+CaptainJack> He has claimed God has tapped him on the shoulder.
[22:39] <+glk4> The voices in my head disagree with the voices in your head
[22:39] <+CaptainJack> Long ago.
[22:39] <+Raven`X> What if they agreed glk?
[22:39] <+CaptainJack> I have not seem him make that claim since I've been back.
[22:39] <+glk4> I do not know
[22:40] <@barabbas`> CaptainJack: That a lie, I claimed that IF I SAID that God tapped me on the shoulder you wouldn't accept it, you would want more. And that is exactly what happened. Just like a couple nights ago, I said a burning bush was evidence for me of God. I never said I saw a burning bush, but that was a false statement made about what I did say.
[22:40] <+Banquo> I have that log, barabbas` i would not accuse anyone of being a liar of the bush claim
[22:41] <@barabbas`> Bring up the log and show me where I said I SAW a burning bush.
[22:41] <+Raven`X> Is it on pastebin? Banquo
[22:41] <+Banquo> Raven`X: Yes
[22:41] <+CaptainJack> barabbas` - my mind is open to all the possibilities and wonders that reality has in it's hold. I do not, however, rely on faith as an epistemology. I use reason, evidence, logic, math, science, the best parts of philosophy, to make my way about the world and to discern what is real and what I can discard.
[22:41] * @dizzy_ ([email protected]) Quit (Ping timeout)
[22:42] <+CaptainJack> Banquo - recall how I said he said it ambiguously enough? ;)
[22:42] <+glk4> Science methods seperate fact from error
[22:42] <+Banquo> Yes CaptainJack
[22:42] <+CaptainJack> barabbas` - it will take some time to grep my logs, but I keep my logs going back quite some time. Are you sure you didn't make that claim?
[22:42] <@barabbas`> A burning bush is evidence of God. Moses saw a burning bush and knew God. It is evidence for me that God is real. That is the first step to knowing God, that you accept that God is real.
[22:43] <+CaptainJack> No, a burning bush is evidence a bush is on fire :)
[22:43] <+GenghisKhan> CaptainJack: please do, because i distinctly remember him saying outright to floyd that god tapped him on the shoulder and didn't couch it with an 'if'
[22:43] <+GenghisKhan> and i remember him screaming context when this was pointed out even after being given the entire log with him saying it as if it were a real thing. i could be wrong though, that was a while ago
[22:43] <+CaptainJack> I'm quite sure I recall it too. But I want to see what he says here and now, before I go log digging.
[22:44] <+GenghisKhan> fair enough
[22:44] <+CaptainJack> Also, I may not have the instance you are thinking of, I was on super akick here for a couple years :D
[22:44] <@barabbas`> CaptainJack: I just told you what my claim was. It was a conversation with floydp. He kept insisting, as you have, that I provide some evidence. I told him even IF I said God tapped me on the shoulder you wouldn't accept it, you would want more. And, true to form he did, asked which shoulder, was it a finger etc. See, it wouldn't matter what the evidence is, you want more. Moses saw
[22:44] <@barabbas`> a burning bush, yet you reject this.
[22:44] <+Banquo> Raven`X: PM'd you those logs
[22:45] <+GenghisKhan> yes, how dare people ask you to explain an extraordinary, life changing experience
[22:45] <+CaptainJack> Okay, thats clear then? barabbas` is claiming NOW he didn't say back then, that God did actually tap him on the shoulder?
[22:45] <+GenghisKhan> dem fools
[22:45] <+CaptainJack> Is this unambiguous?
[22:45] <@barabbas`> CaptainJack: And that crap continued for many months, so there are many, many statements since then. Get the ORIGINAL logs of the conversation with floydp. anything else is just a strawman.
[22:45] <+Banquo> CaptainJack: He accused you of lying earlier, so id say s
[22:45] <+Banquo> so
[22:46] <+CaptainJack> Okay. DANG IT.
[22:46] <+CaptainJack> This means I must ..
[22:46] <+GenghisKhan> lol
[22:46] <+CaptainJack> PAUSE Boardwalk Empire!
[22:46] <+GenghisKhan> ttyl ;)
[22:46] <+Banquo> You should save logs to pastebin so you can find them with a simple google search
[22:46] <+GenghisKhan> should we take bets on his apologetic when we get the log that indeed has him not utilizing "if" hmm
[22:46] <+glk4> I prefer physical evidence for claims
[22:47] <@barabbas`> CaptainJack; Just like last night I never claimed I SAW a burning bush. Baquo says he has the log of me saying I SAW a burning bush. At the time the conversation was about Moses, Jacob, Thomas. I said a burning bush IS evidence of God for me, not that it was the only evidence NOR was it my experience.
[22:48] <+CaptainJack> Uh, dude .. I'm not at present making any claims about that conversation, excepting that I did say within that conversation you were ambiguous :)
[22:48] * |W|P| is now known as |WP|
[22:48] <@barabbas`> Banquo made teh claim, he says he has the logs. lets see them. I want to see a quote of me saying I SAW a burning bush.
[22:49] <+glk4> Claims with no physical evidence are weak
[22:49] <+CaptainJack> glk4 - not at all true.
[22:49] <+CaptainJack> Claims can be made with logic or math which are very strong.
[22:50] <+Banquo> http://pastebin.com/XCJYQkHt
[22:50] <+glk4> I claim I saw a bigfoot in  a flying saucer at area 51
[22:50] <+glk4> Logic has gigo problems
[22:51] <+glk4> Math proves math claims
[22:51] <+GenghisKhan> in that log you do outright say it was a burning bush. you were clearly being glib, but you did say it
[22:52] <+Banquo> Now, before he calls me a liar, we established earlier that were talking about HIS experience
[22:52] <@barabbas`> Banquo: I don't see anywhere in that pastebin where I said I saw a burning bush.
[22:53] <+GenghisKhan> lol
[22:53] * +bradmaj ([email protected]) Quit (Quit: )
[22:53] <@barabbas`> Banquo: I also said it wouldn't matter what I said,  you wouldn't accept it.
[22:53] <+GenghisKhan> he asked you to describe your evidence. you said it was a burning bush. he asked you to clarify and you said that it was a burning bush and asked to move on
[22:53] * IRCisFun ([email protected]) has joined #christiandebate
[22:53] * blue0ne sets mode: +v IRCisFun
[22:53] <+Banquo> http://pastebin.com/1tLr2wMH
[22:53] <+RenaissanceMan> barabbas`: To put things in perspective one has to also include the 45 minutes you spent refusing to clarify with "it" meant.
[22:53] <+glk4> Not all claims are valid
[22:54] <+Banquo> ^^ twice barabbas` establishes we are talking about HIS EXPERIENCE
[22:54] <@Nathanael> ENOUGH.... This stupidity of ganging up and then making wild accusations has to stop now.,.. Enough is enough
[22:54] <@Nathanael> Banquo pastbin is not channel business do not do it again
[22:54] <+GenghisKhan> wild accusations being talking about something that was actually said, and if you'll note, barabbas` asked repeatedly for the log to be posted :)
[22:54] <+CaptainJack> Nathanael - we can bring this to #cops, then. barabbas` is calling people liars.
[22:55] <+Banquo> Sure, off to #cops
[22:55] <+CaptainJack> pastebin of a CHANNEL LOG *is* channel business.
[22:55] <+Raven`X> Someone is all butthurt.
[22:55] <@Nathanael> Banquo GenghisKhan CaptainJack  all of you move on..
[22:55] <+Banquo> Lets go to #cops, we can discuss barabbas` accusation there
[22:55] <+Raven`X> barabbas` asked for the damn logs.
[22:55] <+CaptainJack> I will move to #cops, but I wont MOVE ON when ops call people LIARS
[22:55] <@Nathanael> CaptainJack don't argue.. "I said it is not to come into the main channel
[22:55] <+Raven`X> Daddy spoke, we better shut up.
[22:56] * |WP| is now known as |W|P|
[22:56] <+CaptainJack> Nathanael - #cops or here. Your choice.
[22:56] <@Nathanael> Banquo we will not go to Cops you bait until an iisue is raised then run to #cops... Enough is enough
[22:56] <@Nathanael> CaptainJack I have said enough now move on
[22:56] <+CaptainJack> Okay, we won't go to #cops, we'll do this here.
[22:57] <+CaptainJack> I will NOT move on.
[22:57] <@Nathanael> you will not do it here or anywhere
[22:57] <+Banquo> Nathanael: I got called a liar, i cant defend myself against that accusation?
[22:57] <+Banquo> Nathanael: we have a right to raise channel issues in #cop
[22:57] <+Banquo> #cops
[22:57] <+Banquo> that is an established rule
[22:57] <+dheader>  my prayer request on  my prayer request on MYKTIS.com ,  http://www.onlineprayerworks.com/ has a 10 out of 10 star rating.
[22:57] <@Nathanael> Banquo it is a continual bait until some one says sometrhing they shouldnt
[22:58] * Nathanael sets mode: -v dheader
[22:58] <+Banquo> Nathanael: What are you talking about?
[22:58] <+Raven`X> Nice, turn the tables Nathanael.
[22:58] <+CaptainJack> Nathanael - if you wont come to #cops, you will hear us here. If you silence us, you join barabbas` as nothing more than being a bully. I ask that you step away from your computer and THINK about your actions.
[22:58] <+Banquo> How am I baiting? I got called a liar
[22:58] <@Nathanael> Banquo I watch and I see...
[22:58] <+Raven`X> You see what you want to see.
[22:58] <+Banquo> did you see me get accused of lying? did you see barabbas` ask me for logs and then did you see me provide them with evidence supporting my claim?
[22:59] <@Nathanael> Raven`X ENOUGH... I have seen this going down for weeks
[22:59] <@barabbas`> Banquo You weren't called a liar. The only thing I said was the supposed tapping story as CaptainJack relayed it was a lie, thats not how the conversation went.
[22:59] <@Nathanael> It is never one on one it is often a gang up
[22:59] <+jleija> Banquo: so what if you were called a liar? where does all that indignation come from?
[22:59] <+Banquo> barabbas`: You said i was wrong about you and the bush, i showed you logs saying you i wasn't
[22:59] <+CaptainJack> For the record, my log goes back to 2009, I grepped case insensitive on "shoulder" then on "barabbas", this is the first line that came up: 02Jan17:52:30#christiandebate: <@barabbas`> CaptainJack: I met my wife at her house after speaking to her dad on the CB radio. I met God one day when he tapped me on the shoulder and let me know he was at my side and would be there as long as I wanted him to be. I now kno
[23:00] <+CaptainJack> w God the same way I know my wife. There is nothing different in the knowledge.
[23:00] <+glk4> I am often called a liar. I ignore it
[23:00] <+jleija> Banquo: since when an atheist would care about any absolute moral system?
[23:00] <+GenghisKhan> you said it was a lie just like the other night.
[23:00] <+Raven`X> Enough of you Nathanael.
[23:00] <+CaptainJack> Thats probably 2010, as my log starts late Jan 2009.
[23:00] <+jleija> Banquo: see, glk4 just ignores it, which would be more consistent with his beliefs
[23:01] <+CaptainJack> But I have not confirmed that as I have not checked context around that line.
[23:01] <+glk4> I find facts are a proper reply
[23:01] <+jleija> Banquo: on what grounds can you be offended?
[23:01] <@barabbas`> Banquo; I have just read through that log as well, No where in there do I say I SAW a burning bush. In fact my reference to the burning bush was in a section of the conversation that was about Moses, it was a continuation of my using Moses experience as something that is rejected. I don't reject it, I accept that the burning bush was evidence of God for Moses and is evidence of God
[23:01] <@barabbas`> for me.
[23:02] <+Banquo> barabbas`: Except - and this is quoted in the logs i posted - it was established we were talking about YOUR EXPERIENCE
[23:02] <+GenghisKhan> uhm, no. you responded to the question of what the experience was
[23:02] <+Banquo> Yes
[23:02] <+GenghisKhan> and then when banquo asked again if that was yoru experience you said i just said burning bush, let's move on
[23:02] <@barabbas`> And Now I have clairified my position and used YOUR LOGS to do so, So I am moving on. God Bless
[23:02] <+Banquo> You said: 21:28   barabbas`: Banquo; Doesn't matter what you think of the process, I know from experience that it works.
[23:02] <+GenghisKhan> and look at what CJ posted, you saying god tapped you on the shoulder
[23:02] <@Nathanael> ENOUGH... THis is now closed
[23:02] <+CaptainJack> Then #cops
[23:03] <+Banquo> I am in cops
[23:03] <+CaptainJack> Or an apology from barabbas` for accusing people of lying.
[23:03] <@Nathanael> devoice will folloiw.. and it will not go to #cops...
[23:03] <+Banquo> Nathanael: It is a channel rule we can take an issue to cops
[23:03] <+GenghisKhan> Then you are not following the channel rules Nathanael
[23:03] <@Nathanael> Banquo I have stated what will happen
[23:03] <+Raven`X> More ops abusing their power and getting away with it.
[23:04] <+CaptainJack> Nathanael - then you join barabbas` shoulder to shoulder as proud Christian bully buddies.
[23:04] <@Nathanael> 'if it was one on one then fair enough.. but it is a gang up
[23:04] <+Banquo> Nathanael: I will be reporting this behavior to Sara_Ks. It is perfectly acceptable for chatters to take an issue to #cops
[23:04] <@Nathanael> I will not tolerate it.. NOW MOVE ON
[23:04] <+GenghisKhan> ok, so who should we pick as the ambassador?
[23:04] * +jleija does not get why an atheist would be offended
[23:04] <+Raven`X> I will be too.
[23:04] <@Nathanael> Banquo go your hardest
[23:04] <+GenghisKhan> and why are multiple people not allowed to engage in an argument?
[23:04] <@Fundamenta|ist> woah owah
[23:05] <@Fundamenta|ist> calm down people
[23:05] <+CaptainJack> NATHANAEL: I will NOT move on except to #cops, if you resort to force then you join barabbas` shoulder to shoulder as proud Christian bully buddies.
[23:05] <+Raven`X> No. Tell YOUR op to quit abusing his powers Fundamenta|ist.
[23:05] <+glk4> I am often threatened for offereing facts
[23:05] <+Banquo> Fundamenta|ist: Are we allowed to take this to #cops?
[23:05] <+CaptainJack> Hi Fundamenta|ist, can we PLEASE take this to #cops?
[23:05] <@Fundamenta|ist> Lets go to #cops
[23:05] <+CaptainJack> Thank you :)
[23:05] <+Banquo> Great
[23:05] <+GenghisKhan> and note things were relatively calm until Nathanael can busting in here like a bull in a china shop
[23:05] <+GenghisKhan> *came