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Going Nuclear: The Story of Todd Howard & Bethesda | Develop:Brighton Digital 2020

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  1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9GA8lsH8ls
  2.  
  3. 00:00:00.670 [Music]
  4. 00:00:08.000 hello and welcome to develop brighton
  5. 00:00:09.519 2020 and our keynote session i'm james
  6. 00:00:11.759 batchelor uk editor at gamecentre.biz
  7. 00:00:14.160 in slightly less glamorous settings than
  8. 00:00:15.920 the usual hilton down on the seafront
  9. 00:00:17.840 uh i am delighted to be joined by todd
  10. 00:00:20.320 howard designer director and producer at
  11. 00:00:22.320 bethesda game studios todd thank you so
  12. 00:00:24.080 much for joining us thanks for having me
  13. 00:00:25.760 sorry i couldn't make it over but this
  14. 00:00:27.279 is uh
  15. 00:00:28.560 this will do this it's 2020 the fact
  16. 00:00:31.519 that we must
  17. 00:00:32.159 get you onto a zoom call that that's
  18. 00:00:34.000 that's an accomplishment
  19. 00:00:35.600 um todd has worked in the industry for
  20. 00:00:38.239 26 years almost entirely at bethesda he
  21. 00:00:40.800 began as producer and designer
  22. 00:00:42.480 on the terminator future shock in 1995
  23. 00:00:45.600 but has since had pivotal roles on
  24. 00:00:47.200 numerous elder scrolls games including
  25. 00:00:48.960 morrowind
  26. 00:00:49.520 oblivion and skyrim and fallout 3
  27. 00:00:52.160 fallout 4 and fallout 76
  28. 00:00:54.399 honors he has received include a place
  29. 00:00:57.280 in the academy of interactive arts and
  30. 00:00:58.960 sciences hall of fame
  31. 00:01:00.239 the gdc lifetime achievement award
  32. 00:01:02.079 germany's lara of honor
  33. 00:01:03.680 game lab spain's legend award the new
  34. 00:01:05.519 york game critics legend award and of
  35. 00:01:07.119 course this year's developed star award
  36. 00:01:09.360 um there is a lot to cram into the next
  37. 00:01:12.159 hour so i'm going to dive straight into
  38. 00:01:14.159 it
  39. 00:01:14.479 how did you get started in games and how
  40. 00:01:16.560 did you get started
  41. 00:01:17.759 at bethesda well i think it's you know
  42. 00:01:21.280 the
  43. 00:01:21.520 the time i grew up computers were just
  44. 00:01:24.159 hitting the schools you know maybe it
  45. 00:01:26.960 was the early 80s
  46. 00:01:29.119 and i was always into video games you
  47. 00:01:31.759 know i think people
  48. 00:01:32.640 of of that time period that's when video
  49. 00:01:34.880 games were coming
  50. 00:01:36.159 on computers and the arcades the the
  51. 00:01:38.560 atari 2600
  52. 00:01:40.159 and just kind of fell in love with
  53. 00:01:42.720 playing them
  54. 00:01:43.759 and once i got my hands on an apple ii
  55. 00:01:47.040 i wanted to figure out you know i want
  56. 00:01:49.759 to do this myself how do i make one so i
  57. 00:01:51.600 just started
  58. 00:01:52.320 you know made my first game when i was
  59. 00:01:53.600 12 um
  60. 00:01:55.439 and just kept writing my own games it
  61. 00:01:57.520 was it was my hobby
  62. 00:01:59.840 what was that first game what did the 12
  63. 00:02:02.000 year old todd howard produce
  64. 00:02:04.000 i what was my first one i there was a
  65. 00:02:06.799 star trek game at the time
  66. 00:02:08.399 where you plotted things and i made kind
  67. 00:02:10.080 of a rip-off where you were riding
  68. 00:02:12.319 shotgun
  69. 00:02:13.120 on a wild west uh you know wagon
  70. 00:02:16.800 and i i just i thought it was brilliant
  71. 00:02:20.160 i entered it in like a school computer
  72. 00:02:21.760 contest and i lost
  73. 00:02:23.840 and uh but i was undeterred
  74. 00:02:26.879 you've definitely shown them since i
  75. 00:02:28.319 think yes um you are obviously best
  76. 00:02:30.480 known for elder scrolls and fallout um
  77. 00:02:32.400 but as we mentioned you started with the
  78. 00:02:33.840 terminator game now i'll be honest i had
  79. 00:02:35.440 not heard of this game
  80. 00:02:36.400 until prior to doing this um this uh
  81. 00:02:39.040 keynote and
  82. 00:02:39.760 about that's not uncommon well about an
  83. 00:02:42.000 hour or time ago i looked up some
  84. 00:02:43.360 youtube footage and my god it looks
  85. 00:02:44.800 brilliant it's like a
  86. 00:02:45.920 terminator future shock was like a first
  87. 00:02:47.920 person rp it looked like a first person
  88. 00:02:49.760 rpg like
  89. 00:02:50.720 a terminator elder scrolls and tell us a
  90. 00:02:53.200 little bit more about your work on that
  91. 00:02:54.400 and
  92. 00:02:54.640 kind of the lessons you learned on that
  93. 00:02:56.319 first project you know
  94. 00:02:57.680 going through the rest of your career
  95. 00:03:00.159 that
  96. 00:03:00.959 you know there was a different time the
  97. 00:03:03.280 team was small
  98. 00:03:04.159 maybe it's eight people six ten i don't
  99. 00:03:06.319 remember say eight to ten people
  100. 00:03:08.560 um and when i started at bethesda we had
  101. 00:03:11.760 the terminator license
  102. 00:03:13.040 which was also in kind of a legal
  103. 00:03:16.159 uh fight i think it was carolco and
  104. 00:03:19.040 hemdale i don't remember point being we
  105. 00:03:20.959 had the license and there was nobody
  106. 00:03:22.640 checking on us
  107. 00:03:24.080 so which is brilliant and
  108. 00:03:28.239 this was our 3d engine at the time and
  109. 00:03:30.239 future shock is kind of the first
  110. 00:03:33.040 3d first person full 3d first person
  111. 00:03:35.519 shooter
  112. 00:03:36.560 we did mouse look controls um
  113. 00:03:40.080 and just a blast of a project so people
  114. 00:03:43.680 think about fallout that we do elder
  115. 00:03:45.120 scrolls and fallout
  116. 00:03:46.000 we go between you know fantasy worlds
  117. 00:03:48.959 and then these post-apocalyptic worlds
  118. 00:03:50.720 but we were doing that then
  119. 00:03:52.560 right in the mid-90s um and so when it
  120. 00:03:55.920 came to fallout we had already
  121. 00:03:57.840 you know i had already built 3d
  122. 00:04:00.080 post-apocalyptic worlds and
  123. 00:04:01.680 the levels were wide open but it was a
  124. 00:04:03.439 really really fun project
  125. 00:04:05.040 where we kind of got to do whatever we
  126. 00:04:07.680 wanted and
  127. 00:04:08.319 and move fast nice i genuinely encourage
  128. 00:04:11.599 people to look this up on youtube
  129. 00:04:13.040 because
  130. 00:04:13.439 i'm not even that big a terminator fan
  131. 00:04:14.720 but that looked fun like that there was
  132. 00:04:16.160 about a year ago when like everything
  133. 00:04:17.680 had the terminator license i think you
  134. 00:04:19.040 guys need to get it back
  135. 00:04:20.000 maybe kind of maybe a remaster we need a
  136. 00:04:22.000 reason it's come up but i
  137. 00:04:23.440 i think it's unlikely fair enough so how
  138. 00:04:26.479 did you go from the terminator
  139. 00:04:28.000 like a licensed tie-in to the elder
  140. 00:04:30.160 scrolls theory so so my understanding is
  141. 00:04:31.680 like by the time
  142. 00:04:32.400 you you first worked on daggerfall so
  143. 00:04:34.479 arena was already out
  144. 00:04:35.759 arena had just come out when i started
  145. 00:04:38.720 on floppy so my first
  146. 00:04:40.639 role was um there was a basketball game
  147. 00:04:44.560 i was put on i'm a big sports fan too so
  148. 00:04:46.560 they had an ncaa basketball game
  149. 00:04:49.199 um that i produced and then i was put on
  150. 00:04:52.080 to the cd-rom version
  151. 00:04:53.840 of arena so arena had just come out so i
  152. 00:04:56.160 worked in the cd-rom version daggerfall
  153. 00:04:58.080 was in
  154. 00:04:59.440 development and again the development
  155. 00:05:00.880 staff was maybe
  156. 00:05:02.560 20 people the whole company was like 20
  157. 00:05:04.720 some people tops
  158. 00:05:06.160 and so everybody kind of worked on
  159. 00:05:07.440 everything future shock was my main
  160. 00:05:09.520 project
  161. 00:05:10.400 um but i was also on daggerfall and then
  162. 00:05:13.120 when feature shock wrapped up
  163. 00:05:14.960 i was full-time daggerfall but everybody
  164. 00:05:17.440 was
  165. 00:05:19.199 so how did the series or how did working
  166. 00:05:21.840 on the series differ back then because
  167. 00:05:23.120 obviously you know
  168. 00:05:23.919 the technology was somewhat more limited
  169. 00:05:25.759 the hardware was somewhat more limited
  170. 00:05:27.039 you compare like arena and dagon fall to
  171. 00:05:28.880 say morrowind and it's very obviously
  172. 00:05:31.199 um a much more primitive is a harsh word
  173. 00:05:33.520 but you know what i mean like a much
  174. 00:05:34.479 more kind of basic version of what would
  175. 00:05:35.919 eventually become morrow and oblivion
  176. 00:05:37.440 skyrim like but in terms of the actual
  177. 00:05:39.199 design process
  178. 00:05:40.160 like how what differed back then well i
  179. 00:05:42.639 think
  180. 00:05:43.360 you know look when you look at games
  181. 00:05:45.280 certain things can seem primitive
  182. 00:05:47.120 through the lens of time and technology
  183. 00:05:50.080 but at the top we were doing similar
  184. 00:05:52.240 things that we do now believe it or not
  185. 00:05:55.199 so even though the scale has increased
  186. 00:05:57.600 what we were doing in comparison to
  187. 00:06:00.880 other games
  188. 00:06:02.000 really has not one of the one of the
  189. 00:06:03.600 exercises i love
  190. 00:06:05.280 is to go back and read old reviews
  191. 00:06:08.479 of games and if you go back and read a
  192. 00:06:11.680 review of
  193. 00:06:12.560 arena or daggerfall
  194. 00:06:15.680 that the words they use and the way they
  195. 00:06:17.360 express the game the way it makes them
  196. 00:06:19.280 feel it's similar to the way we want the
  197. 00:06:22.479 elder scrolls in the games today to feel
  198. 00:06:25.440 and so um
  199. 00:06:28.479 obviously it was smaller we moved we
  200. 00:06:30.639 moved a lot faster so the games
  201. 00:06:32.800 they were they they took shorter to
  202. 00:06:34.800 develop but the goals
  203. 00:06:36.240 and the way we thought about it really
  204. 00:06:38.560 are
  205. 00:06:39.280 really aren't that different there have
  206. 00:06:42.240 been differences
  207. 00:06:43.280 over the years so kind of let's look at
  208. 00:06:44.800 um a bit broader before we dive into
  209. 00:06:46.400 each one
  210. 00:06:46.960 and as in each its title how did the
  211. 00:06:49.360 series evolve from your point of view
  212. 00:06:51.280 like what were the the key steps forward
  213. 00:06:53.360 like the key advantages in that that
  214. 00:06:54.960 elder scrolls formula because you go
  215. 00:06:56.400 back to arena
  216. 00:06:57.280 and even daggerfall need the bare bones
  217. 00:06:59.520 of of what would become morrow and
  218. 00:07:01.039 oblivion skyrim
  219. 00:07:02.000 is there so what were the big steps
  220. 00:07:04.000 forward in terms of advancing that
  221. 00:07:05.840 formula as it were
  222. 00:07:07.599 well i think they take steps in terms of
  223. 00:07:11.520 tam arena sets the world of tamriel you
  224. 00:07:14.319 know okay you can go anywhere and do
  225. 00:07:15.440 whatever you want
  226. 00:07:16.160 daggerfall makes a step design wise
  227. 00:07:19.840 primarily in the character system it's a
  228. 00:07:21.919 really really good character system with
  229. 00:07:23.360 skills arena is an xp based game
  230. 00:07:26.240 most people associate elder scrolls with
  231. 00:07:28.400 used skills and improve them now
  232. 00:07:30.479 um that was a daggerfall thing and then
  233. 00:07:32.639 more wind there was a big gap too
  234. 00:07:34.880 company went through some some difficult
  235. 00:07:37.120 times uh financially
  236. 00:07:39.599 and um the company had shrunk
  237. 00:07:44.240 we made some bad games we made some
  238. 00:07:45.759 mistakes and the development team
  239. 00:07:48.400 and we probably went down to six people
  240. 00:07:50.879 so that's kind of the
  241. 00:07:52.479 i see more wind as the beginning of kind
  242. 00:07:55.039 of
  243. 00:07:56.560 bethesda 2.0 or this you know the
  244. 00:07:58.479 bethesda you'll know today
  245. 00:08:00.560 really started with with more wind and
  246. 00:08:03.520 we did take a step
  247. 00:08:05.039 back in terms of moving away from kind
  248. 00:08:07.759 of an
  249. 00:08:08.160 infinite procedural world which arena
  250. 00:08:10.479 and daggerfall are basically
  251. 00:08:12.080 infinite random procedural worlds
  252. 00:08:15.280 to a handcrafted one i'm a big fan of
  253. 00:08:18.000 the ultima's
  254. 00:08:19.599 and i really wanted to move it
  255. 00:08:22.639 where it felt more real on a
  256. 00:08:25.840 minute-to-minute basis
  257. 00:08:27.680 with the items in the world the things
  258. 00:08:29.840 you could do
  259. 00:08:30.879 and so morrowind becomes um a very large
  260. 00:08:34.320 game
  261. 00:08:35.360 but a handcrafted game
  262. 00:08:39.200 well let's see them dive into that a
  263. 00:08:40.719 little bit let's let's go on attention
  264. 00:08:42.640 handcrafted versus procedural generation
  265. 00:08:44.720 like we've
  266. 00:08:45.760 we've seen a lot more open worlds in in
  267. 00:08:47.760 recent years like um
  268. 00:08:49.839 stuff arguably that kind of builds on
  269. 00:08:52.000 games like morrowind
  270. 00:08:53.360 and everything's on open world now and
  271. 00:08:55.920 there is a mix between you've got your
  272. 00:08:57.600 handcrafted worlds you know things like
  273. 00:08:59.200 your big assassin's creeds your witches
  274. 00:09:00.880 you know your side behind those sort of
  275. 00:09:02.080 things and then you do still have these
  276. 00:09:03.680 procedurally generated ones your things
  277. 00:09:05.200 like um no man's sky
  278. 00:09:06.800 like what the advantage of disadvantages
  279. 00:09:09.040 either way like what is it that gives
  280. 00:09:10.240 you a preference for a handcrafted world
  281. 00:09:12.800 i don't necessarily have a pr a
  282. 00:09:14.240 preference so we've done a bit of both
  283. 00:09:16.160 oblivion then the landscape is somewhat
  284. 00:09:18.800 procedural
  285. 00:09:19.680 then we went over it with hand just to
  286. 00:09:21.600 make sure things are the way we like
  287. 00:09:24.800 and so i think a mix is good procedural
  288. 00:09:27.600 helps you
  289. 00:09:28.160 we do still do some procedural quests
  290. 00:09:30.080 and storytelling in those ways or
  291. 00:09:32.160 random encounters it keeps it
  292. 00:09:36.080 um it keeps it fresh where
  293. 00:09:40.240 we don't know what exactly is going to
  294. 00:09:41.600 happen all the time and the players
  295. 00:09:42.959 don't know what's going to happen but
  296. 00:09:43.920 there's a difference between
  297. 00:09:45.279 the world itself you know we want to
  298. 00:09:47.920 spend our time
  299. 00:09:48.880 handcrafting the things that you can
  300. 00:09:51.760 tell are handcrafted whereas nature
  301. 00:09:54.800 computers can do a good job at putting
  302. 00:09:57.519 trees and rocks and making landscape
  303. 00:09:59.200 around that you can massage
  304. 00:10:01.279 so we want to make sure for the scale of
  305. 00:10:04.160 our our development and our team that
  306. 00:10:06.240 we're touching the things that are most
  307. 00:10:07.760 important and if we can use procedural
  308. 00:10:09.680 systems
  309. 00:10:10.560 to generate content um that keep the
  310. 00:10:13.519 game kind of
  311. 00:10:14.880 everlasting then that's what we want to
  312. 00:10:17.440 lean on
  313. 00:10:18.480 and so we went away for it for a while
  314. 00:10:21.120 and then we've been coming back to it
  315. 00:10:23.600 over time that we like to experiment
  316. 00:10:27.600 each game with
  317. 00:10:28.399 somewhat procedural stuff and then when
  318. 00:10:30.000 it where it's not working out
  319. 00:10:31.440 we go in and touch it um and the stuff
  320. 00:10:33.839 we're doing now
  321. 00:10:35.120 we're pushing procedural generation
  322. 00:10:39.200 further than we have in a very very long
  323. 00:10:41.279 time with the stuff that's coming up
  324. 00:10:43.519 nice so elder scrolls six all
  325. 00:10:45.040 procedurally generated confirmed lovely
  326. 00:10:46.959 thank you
  327. 00:10:49.360 um let's dive in a little bit more on uh
  328. 00:10:51.120 morrow and then as you said like it for
  329. 00:10:52.800 you it was kind of the start of the 32.0
  330. 00:10:54.560 it certainly
  331. 00:10:55.360 um feels like a a moment in the elder
  332. 00:10:58.560 scrolls system uh series history and
  333. 00:11:00.399 bethesda's history like it was
  334. 00:11:02.240 it was my introduction to um the series
  335. 00:11:04.720 it was my introduction to open world
  336. 00:11:06.240 rpgs and certainly to um
  337. 00:11:08.160 to what the western style rpg and uh i
  338. 00:11:11.760 haven't gone back since
  339. 00:11:13.200 um from your point of view like what was
  340. 00:11:15.600 the impact it had like from from
  341. 00:11:16.959 internally like you know
  342. 00:11:18.240 this game came out and it was bigger
  343. 00:11:19.760 than anything you guys had done before
  344. 00:11:21.760 bigger in terms of scale and style i'd
  345. 00:11:25.200 say rather than
  346. 00:11:25.839 like you said it's a specific region so
  347. 00:11:28.160 geographically
  348. 00:11:29.120 it is not the biggest game you have made
  349. 00:11:31.040 but in terms of production it certainly
  350. 00:11:32.800 was like what was the impact
  351. 00:11:34.480 you know internally like the the success
  352. 00:11:37.519 that morrowind had
  353. 00:11:40.240 well it was it was huge you know again
  354. 00:11:42.320 the company had gone through a lot of
  355. 00:11:43.680 troubles
  356. 00:11:44.480 um and that was a game where
  357. 00:11:47.760 i i put it in this context that we kind
  358. 00:11:50.480 of had no fear
  359. 00:11:51.839 like we felt the company was going to go
  360. 00:11:53.440 out of business so we got a chance to
  361. 00:11:55.440 make more when it's like
  362. 00:11:57.120 what's the worst that's gonna happen
  363. 00:11:58.880 let's just make
  364. 00:12:00.160 the the game that we know we want and
  365. 00:12:02.560 the fans want and not be
  366. 00:12:05.120 afraid not that you're afraid in other
  367. 00:12:08.000 games but we took
  368. 00:12:08.959 we took a few more risks on that game
  369. 00:12:12.720 and you know if it hadn't worked out i
  370. 00:12:15.519 don't know that we'd
  371. 00:12:16.880 we'd be here um and
  372. 00:12:20.720 it worked out better than we we could
  373. 00:12:22.800 have imagined people really gravitated
  374. 00:12:24.959 toward it
  375. 00:12:25.600 it did incredibly well on the xbox i
  376. 00:12:28.880 believe
  377. 00:12:29.839 it was the second best seller behind
  378. 00:12:31.519 halo it
  379. 00:12:32.959 obviously did well in the pc but that
  380. 00:12:34.959 our introduce
  381. 00:12:36.160 introduction to consoles there that was
  382. 00:12:38.800 also a risk for us and something very
  383. 00:12:40.560 new
  384. 00:12:41.200 do people even want that style of rpg in
  385. 00:12:43.680 a console at the time it's very
  386. 00:12:45.200 it's very final fantasy type games um
  387. 00:12:49.360 and that really was a huge jumping off
  388. 00:12:52.320 point where we knew
  389. 00:12:54.800 hey people really want this we're on to
  390. 00:12:56.639 something and
  391. 00:12:58.320 it allowed us to invest even more and do
  392. 00:13:01.519 oblivion
  393. 00:13:02.639 and get the fallout license so the
  394. 00:13:04.639 fallout license is actually
  395. 00:13:07.279 acquired during that gap between
  396. 00:13:10.000 morrowind
  397. 00:13:11.040 and oblivion even though oblivion comes
  398. 00:13:13.360 out first
  399. 00:13:14.720 and that was a i would say oblivion is a
  400. 00:13:18.079 very big bet for the company too where
  401. 00:13:19.839 most companies would say
  402. 00:13:22.160 we must have right mourin's a big hit
  403. 00:13:24.240 you clearly would jump onto a sequel
  404. 00:13:26.800 and you know fortunate enough in our
  405. 00:13:29.200 company that
  406. 00:13:30.000 we were able to say we'd rather take
  407. 00:13:32.880 about
  408. 00:13:33.279 four years and go to these next-gen
  409. 00:13:36.000 consoles and pcs that are coming
  410. 00:13:38.560 and make this game and that was where
  411. 00:13:42.000 you know we're incredibly lucky to have
  412. 00:13:43.600 the support of a great company that
  413. 00:13:44.959 allowed us to do that
  414. 00:13:47.199 did anything change um when it came to
  415. 00:13:49.519 like kind of the
  416. 00:13:50.399 momentum the atmosphere the ethos behind
  417. 00:13:53.199 uh oblivion because like
  418. 00:13:54.399 you said morrowind was kind of developed
  419. 00:13:55.920 with no fear it's kind of like you know
  420. 00:13:57.360 the company may go bust so let's just
  421. 00:13:58.720 throw everything at it
  422. 00:14:00.000 um i know i believe you've said
  423. 00:14:02.560 previously in interviews that
  424. 00:14:03.760 oblivion you kind of lost the the game
  425. 00:14:06.480 lost the sense of wonder that morrowind
  426. 00:14:08.079 had like i wonder like because you
  427. 00:14:09.839 you essentially then have expectations
  428. 00:14:11.279 as you said like most companies would be
  429. 00:14:12.480 like right this needs to be a sequel
  430. 00:14:13.760 has done so well
  431. 00:14:15.279 this needs to do even better like
  432. 00:14:17.040 there's more pressure there
  433. 00:14:18.480 did that change the way you kind of
  434. 00:14:20.160 approached it
  435. 00:14:22.160 no i don't think there was more pressure
  436. 00:14:23.440 we were taking just as many
  437. 00:14:26.000 they were more calculated risk with
  438. 00:14:27.680 oblivion because you go in oblivion
  439. 00:14:29.360 pretty confident
  440. 00:14:31.040 people are going to want th this game is
  441. 00:14:32.480 going to do well right whereas morrowind
  442. 00:14:35.120 you know you're not as sure how well
  443. 00:14:37.600 it's going to do
  444. 00:14:38.959 there was some confidence with what we
  445. 00:14:40.399 were doing with oblivion that it would
  446. 00:14:41.839 be
  447. 00:14:42.639 successful on some level did not expect
  448. 00:14:45.440 the success that one had either oblivion
  449. 00:14:47.760 just becomes this
  450. 00:14:49.440 kind of lightning rod for next
  451. 00:14:51.199 generation gaming at the time
  452. 00:14:53.360 um it won all the game of the year
  453. 00:14:56.000 awards
  454. 00:14:57.360 um the comment you referenced that i
  455. 00:15:00.079 made about oblivion losing some of
  456. 00:15:02.399 morrowinds
  457. 00:15:03.199 oblivion is comfortable in its setting
  458. 00:15:05.360 it's very classic
  459. 00:15:06.399 fantasy and there the things that make
  460. 00:15:09.519 tamriel or the elder scrolls unique
  461. 00:15:12.079 in the world they're subtle in oblivion
  462. 00:15:15.519 they're clearly not like morrowind's
  463. 00:15:17.839 vibe is intentionally
  464. 00:15:20.160 very exotic stranger in a strange land
  465. 00:15:24.079 an oblivion after we were past it
  466. 00:15:27.360 felt it got a little watered down
  467. 00:15:31.519 in the world around you but the gameplay
  468. 00:15:34.240 and the character systems i think were
  469. 00:15:36.480 um much improved over oblivions
  470. 00:15:39.600 and that was one of the things going
  471. 00:15:40.720 into skyrim where um
  472. 00:15:44.639 we want something that has a little bit
  473. 00:15:46.560 of familiarity
  474. 00:15:48.079 in terms of okay i'm not in a bizarre
  475. 00:15:50.639 world
  476. 00:15:51.440 but has this epicness of a fantasy world
  477. 00:15:55.519 that has
  478. 00:15:56.639 a real identity
  479. 00:15:59.839 how do you balance that i guess you're
  480. 00:16:01.519 trying to create a fantasy world that
  481. 00:16:04.320 is unique he stands up on his own um but
  482. 00:16:07.040 also you want enough familiar elements
  483. 00:16:08.880 to
  484. 00:16:09.440 to bring people in like i apologize i
  485. 00:16:11.120 may ramble here but like
  486. 00:16:12.480 yeah so morrowind i i played and i it's
  487. 00:16:15.279 stunning nothing i've played before you
  488. 00:16:16.959 know this giant silt strider at sedona
  489. 00:16:18.880 and it's like i have no idea what that
  490. 00:16:20.079 is you have floating niches everywhere
  491. 00:16:21.680 it felt like a very different world
  492. 00:16:23.440 giant mushrooms that you know bigger
  493. 00:16:25.120 than trees
  494. 00:16:25.920 this feels like a unique fantasy world
  495. 00:16:28.480 got to oblivion and i absolutely loved
  496. 00:16:30.320 it but
  497. 00:16:30.959 there were elements is like well the
  498. 00:16:32.880 guards here kind of look like they're
  499. 00:16:34.320 from lord of the rings and cyrodiil
  500. 00:16:36.720 looks like yeah the the imperial city
  501. 00:16:38.720 looks a little bit kind of ministerious
  502. 00:16:40.480 to me
  503. 00:16:41.120 you get to skyrim and you can feel and
  504. 00:16:44.399 you can feel influence a little bit from
  505. 00:16:46.639 say like game of thrones that sort of
  506. 00:16:48.320 thing
  507. 00:16:49.519 as it white thorne is the the the town
  508. 00:16:51.759 the first time you go to
  509. 00:16:52.959 after um after the first little village
  510. 00:16:55.120 like it felt kind of very editor-ass
  511. 00:16:56.720 from lord of the rings
  512. 00:16:57.680 there's there's more elements there
  513. 00:16:59.440 there's like right i can almost see
  514. 00:17:01.279 where the
  515. 00:17:01.920 the inspiration has come from here
  516. 00:17:03.680 rather than this feels
  517. 00:17:05.280 completely totally out of some
  518. 00:17:06.720 developer's imagination is that
  519. 00:17:08.400 if that's fair to say like how do you
  520. 00:17:10.400 balance yeah coming up with
  521. 00:17:12.079 something completely different but then
  522. 00:17:14.000 something welcoming enough that people
  523. 00:17:15.919 like ah
  524. 00:17:16.720 i get this this is a fancy thing i know
  525. 00:17:18.480 where i stand
  526. 00:17:19.919 well we want to be authentic to the
  527. 00:17:22.480 world where
  528. 00:17:23.839 we're in right so when we approach
  529. 00:17:25.760 skyrim
  530. 00:17:27.359 what is what feels authentic for that
  531. 00:17:29.679 part
  532. 00:17:30.400 of tamriel and not have it be
  533. 00:17:33.760 all snow that was one of our worries
  534. 00:17:35.840 going in well it's going to be all snow
  535. 00:17:37.200 so
  536. 00:17:37.679 varying the landscape in a way when i
  537. 00:17:40.160 say inviting even the beginning of
  538. 00:17:42.000 morrowind
  539. 00:17:43.200 that part of the world you start in has
  540. 00:17:45.520 some sort of classic
  541. 00:17:47.600 medieval tropes and you start in the
  542. 00:17:50.559 south
  543. 00:17:51.520 west and when you get to the northeast
  544. 00:17:54.640 that's where it's you know extra crazy
  545. 00:17:58.240 you want to lead the player into that
  546. 00:18:00.880 where
  547. 00:18:01.919 um it's good to peak there you want to
  548. 00:18:04.000 peak the curiosity but not make them
  549. 00:18:05.840 uncomfortable
  550. 00:18:07.440 if that makes sense so the references
  551. 00:18:09.919 that you have
  552. 00:18:10.720 for skyrim um you know it actually
  553. 00:18:13.280 predates
  554. 00:18:14.000 game of thrones in terms of when we were
  555. 00:18:16.720 making it and when it came out
  556. 00:18:18.160 overlapped there's some um
  557. 00:18:21.440 you know i think you look at uh you
  558. 00:18:24.000 mentioned interest those things
  559. 00:18:25.440 uh ministerith those
  560. 00:18:28.559 ultimately are based on the same they go
  561. 00:18:30.720 back to the same reference points in
  562. 00:18:32.480 architecture whether that's
  563. 00:18:34.000 scandinavian or roman or those kind of
  564. 00:18:35.919 things
  565. 00:18:37.440 obviously some of that stuff seeps in
  566. 00:18:39.679 i'm you know big fan of lord of the
  567. 00:18:41.200 rings the books
  568. 00:18:42.000 and the movies and
  569. 00:18:46.400 the one thing in skyrim that we spent
  570. 00:18:49.760 probably more time on people don't maybe
  571. 00:18:53.039 notice are the nordic ruins how were the
  572. 00:18:55.520 nords living what were their gods how
  573. 00:18:57.360 did they worship them
  574. 00:18:59.039 and so even though you're going to see
  575. 00:19:01.039 some architecture or things like that
  576. 00:19:02.720 that are familiar to you
  577. 00:19:04.240 i think when you get into the ancient
  578. 00:19:06.799 nord stuff
  579. 00:19:07.600 and alduan's wall and these kind of
  580. 00:19:09.360 things i think we hit a really good i'm
  581. 00:19:11.919 very
  582. 00:19:12.400 pleased with how that turned out and we
  583. 00:19:14.720 iterated on that
  584. 00:19:16.160 a lot we will come back to skyrim but i
  585. 00:19:19.600 am trying to work through this
  586. 00:19:20.919 semi-chronologically if i can
  587. 00:19:23.200 so as you mentioned like you guys got
  588. 00:19:24.640 the the fallout license before
  589. 00:19:27.039 uh oblivion came out so fallout 3 was
  590. 00:19:29.039 kind of in the works
  591. 00:19:30.400 um fallout had been away for some years
  592. 00:19:32.960 or at least at least certainly hadn't
  593. 00:19:34.480 been as prominent and
  594. 00:19:36.320 what were the challenges of updating
  595. 00:19:38.320 fallout um
  596. 00:19:39.360 for modern platforms because like
  597. 00:19:40.559 fallout 3 was completely different to
  598. 00:19:43.440 all previous fallout games like they
  599. 00:19:44.720 were very much that kind of the top-down
  600. 00:19:45.919 isometric style rpg
  601. 00:19:47.280 and here you are with a fallout 3 that
  602. 00:19:48.720 is essentially like a post-apocalyptic
  603. 00:19:50.640 oblivion
  604. 00:19:51.360 or morrowind like um what was the
  605. 00:19:53.840 challenges of yeah taking this this
  606. 00:19:55.919 other franchise and applying your
  607. 00:19:58.400 formula to it in a way that that works
  608. 00:20:00.400 but doesn't feel like you've just
  609. 00:20:01.440 reskinned your older games
  610. 00:20:04.320 yeah that was we had wanted to sort of
  611. 00:20:06.960 branch out
  612. 00:20:07.760 and have something other than elder
  613. 00:20:09.760 scrolls and we hadn't we had a number of
  614. 00:20:11.760 ideas
  615. 00:20:12.640 and post-apocalyptic there were sci-fi
  616. 00:20:14.960 in there as well
  617. 00:20:16.400 um was near the top of the list but
  618. 00:20:19.679 for me it had to be fallout like we
  619. 00:20:22.000 could have made our own
  620. 00:20:23.520 but there was something very special
  621. 00:20:25.360 about the fallout world
  622. 00:20:27.520 and the ip had been dormant and some
  623. 00:20:29.600 folks in our company
  624. 00:20:31.039 new people at interplay and we were able
  625. 00:20:33.200 to acquire it
  626. 00:20:35.280 and that to me is one of the favorite
  627. 00:20:38.559 moments of my career when someone says
  628. 00:20:40.559 what would you like to make
  629. 00:20:41.600 well i'd really like to make fallout but
  630. 00:20:43.440 we don't have it and then
  631. 00:20:44.720 maybe six eight months went by and i can
  632. 00:20:46.799 remember to this day
  633. 00:20:48.480 this yellow sticky note someone todd
  634. 00:20:50.960 vaughn
  635. 00:20:52.000 left on my keyboard it said fallout is
  636. 00:20:54.799 yours
  637. 00:20:55.840 and i came back and like when does that
  638. 00:20:58.159 happen
  639. 00:21:00.559 and we were just overjoyed
  640. 00:21:03.760 we we knew what we would do with it like
  641. 00:21:05.919 apply the kind of game that we were
  642. 00:21:08.159 making
  643. 00:21:09.120 in that kind of world and the main thing
  644. 00:21:12.960 that we looked at was how to handle the
  645. 00:21:15.840 guns
  646. 00:21:17.120 like what's an rpg we don't is it a
  647. 00:21:19.039 first person shooter
  648. 00:21:20.559 how do we tread that line and that's
  649. 00:21:22.960 where we came up with the vat system
  650. 00:21:25.120 to to bring some of the rpg ness into it
  651. 00:21:27.600 where
  652. 00:21:28.320 your own personal um
  653. 00:21:31.360 you know finger twitch skills don't
  654. 00:21:33.600 matter
  655. 00:21:34.559 to the extent that they would in some
  656. 00:21:37.039 other games
  657. 00:21:38.000 but that to this day is one of my
  658. 00:21:41.600 favorite projects that i've ever worked
  659. 00:21:44.080 on i mean obviously we love them all
  660. 00:21:46.080 but that one holds a special place
  661. 00:21:48.240 because it was so new for all of us
  662. 00:21:51.120 and when you're making a fallout game
  663. 00:21:55.120 there's just so much you can do
  664. 00:21:59.039 there's very few ideas
  665. 00:22:03.360 that if you're sitting around going oh
  666. 00:22:04.799 this would be great that you can't fit
  667. 00:22:07.039 in a fallout game in some manner
  668. 00:22:10.559 you know it mixes obviously
  669. 00:22:13.000 post-apocalyptic it's part drama
  670. 00:22:15.440 it's part dark comedy it's part b movie
  671. 00:22:19.520 um and it can move but if you're doing
  672. 00:22:21.679 it right it can move between those
  673. 00:22:24.000 in a way that it forges its own identity
  674. 00:22:28.159 um so obviously over time we got the
  675. 00:22:31.600 license in 2004 16 years ago
  676. 00:22:34.960 um and it's been
  677. 00:22:38.240 you know very very special to all of us
  678. 00:22:40.880 who've had the opportunity to work on it
  679. 00:22:43.020 [Music]
  680. 00:22:44.720 let's dive a little into the young the
  681. 00:22:46.159 differences between the design decisions
  682. 00:22:47.679 like you said like you you there's
  683. 00:22:48.880 certain things in fallout that
  684. 00:22:50.320 that just do not apply to elder scrolls
  685. 00:22:51.840 for example guns like yo i know you've
  686. 00:22:53.760 got
  687. 00:22:54.000 ranged weapons in elder scrolls but it's
  688. 00:22:56.000 not quite the same as a gun
  689. 00:22:57.520 um like yeah how do you approach
  690. 00:23:00.480 designing a fallout game differently to
  691. 00:23:02.240 approaching early designing and elder
  692. 00:23:04.000 scrolls
  693. 00:23:06.840 well what we've done in the in the
  694. 00:23:09.679 previous ones particularly in 3m
  695. 00:23:11.360 we'll talk fallout 3 and 4 is that the
  696. 00:23:14.640 story is a bit more linear
  697. 00:23:18.559 that and the characters in it are more
  698. 00:23:21.360 specific
  699. 00:23:22.000 we're telling a more specific story in a
  700. 00:23:25.200 fallout game
  701. 00:23:26.559 and the choices that you make are
  702. 00:23:31.440 in many ways more we want them
  703. 00:23:35.039 dialogue-wise to be more difficult
  704. 00:23:37.360 choices who do you who do you side with
  705. 00:23:39.919 who lives who dies what are you going to
  706. 00:23:41.600 sacrifice
  707. 00:23:43.679 to live given the nature of the world
  708. 00:23:46.799 you're in
  709. 00:23:47.760 elder scrolls is and again i'm
  710. 00:23:50.960 generalizing there's a huge overlap
  711. 00:23:53.679 and most people can see that they'll see
  712. 00:23:55.200 similar systems in the games
  713. 00:23:57.200 elder scrolls is a bit more systemic
  714. 00:24:00.640 in its design you know intentionally you
  715. 00:24:03.760 can
  716. 00:24:04.000 join all the factions there's not a
  717. 00:24:06.320 specific choice
  718. 00:24:07.760 there's some in skyrim with the
  719. 00:24:10.080 imperials
  720. 00:24:11.120 and the um nords but so we
  721. 00:24:16.000 again i'm generalizing but that if i if
  722. 00:24:18.640 i were to go back and look at it is
  723. 00:24:20.240 is is a bit of a difference in how we
  724. 00:24:22.720 approach
  725. 00:24:24.080 each one how do you but this is this is
  726. 00:24:27.039 going to tie into a certain
  727. 00:24:28.320 personal bugbear is a strong word but
  728. 00:24:30.240 like a personal thing that i find with
  729. 00:24:31.919 uh
  730. 00:24:32.240 with some open world games um how do you
  731. 00:24:35.120 balance
  732. 00:24:35.679 telling a more linear story because as
  733. 00:24:37.120 you say fallout have has a more
  734. 00:24:38.880 you know direct storyline and the more
  735. 00:24:41.360 the elder scrolls games can very much be
  736. 00:24:42.960 right
  737. 00:24:43.520 you can either follow the main questline
  738. 00:24:45.200 or just naf off and do your own thing
  739. 00:24:47.120 um fallout phil for like they have a
  740. 00:24:49.200 very good setup up right
  741. 00:24:50.559 this is the story this is what's
  742. 00:24:51.679 happened now you're unleashed from the
  743. 00:24:53.039 world the
  744. 00:24:54.080 vault is unlocked you need to go and do
  745. 00:24:56.400 this objective
  746. 00:24:57.279 while nothing often doing your own thing
  747. 00:24:59.919 but the
  748. 00:25:00.880 but the balance between trying to tell a
  749. 00:25:02.720 story and trying to tell them on this
  750. 00:25:03.919 urgent
  751. 00:25:04.559 or try that has a kind of a momentum
  752. 00:25:06.720 without killing that sense of
  753. 00:25:08.000 exploration so fallout 3 was right
  754. 00:25:10.400 i've got to get out here my dad has gone
  755. 00:25:12.640 missing
  756. 00:25:13.440 um i'm gonna go to this town and here
  757. 00:25:16.159 i'm gonna find lots of different quests
  758. 00:25:17.520 that lead off in loads of different
  759. 00:25:18.720 directions
  760. 00:25:19.760 whereas fallout 4 you are right my child
  761. 00:25:22.799 has been
  762. 00:25:23.679 kidnapped i need to go find them
  763. 00:25:26.720 and that makes it difficult that can
  764. 00:25:28.799 make it difficult it's like right
  765. 00:25:30.080 i need to find my child my child has
  766. 00:25:31.360 been missing but i'm first going to stop
  767. 00:25:33.360 and help this robot
  768. 00:25:34.640 gardener make a you know greenhouse full
  769. 00:25:36.960 of plants like
  770. 00:25:38.480 the the the dissonance between yeah
  771. 00:25:41.600 this is the story you're trying to tell
  772. 00:25:43.279 and this is a joy the player wants to
  773. 00:25:45.279 experience or the adventure the player
  774. 00:25:46.960 wants to have how do you balance that
  775. 00:25:49.919 that's tricky i don't know that we've
  776. 00:25:52.240 we've solved it right you want some sort
  777. 00:25:54.640 of time pressure
  778. 00:25:56.159 on the player but that fights against
  779. 00:25:59.679 anything else you're doing like you said
  780. 00:26:03.039 the stories we've told in elder scrolls
  781. 00:26:05.360 suit that
  782. 00:26:06.799 suit that better right the fallout
  783. 00:26:10.000 ones fallout 3 i think has more
  784. 00:26:13.600 pressure to you know get out and and
  785. 00:26:17.600 find your father
  786. 00:26:19.039 to find your son thing in fallout 4
  787. 00:26:21.840 because of the way you're
  788. 00:26:24.240 frozen we wanted some element of this is
  789. 00:26:27.360 a mystery
  790. 00:26:28.799 there's not the same time pressure
  791. 00:26:32.640 and there's still some dissonance as you
  792. 00:26:34.880 mentioned
  793. 00:26:37.520 but in fallout 4 i do think
  794. 00:26:41.760 the player matches with
  795. 00:26:45.279 you the player match with the character
  796. 00:26:47.120 on the screen
  797. 00:26:49.520 better in many ways than fallout 3
  798. 00:26:54.320 not to say fallout 3 doesn't um so when
  799. 00:26:57.120 you step
  800. 00:26:57.679 out you feel like you're experiencing
  801. 00:27:00.159 the outside world like
  802. 00:27:01.440 you feel a little bit the loss of it
  803. 00:27:03.039 being destroyed because you were there
  804. 00:27:05.360 you feel the loss of your family
  805. 00:27:08.480 and the game throws a lot of mechanics
  806. 00:27:11.679 at you
  807. 00:27:13.360 and it's intentional that
  808. 00:27:16.960 you're trying to find your way it takes
  809. 00:27:18.320 a little while for you to feel
  810. 00:27:19.520 comfortable
  811. 00:27:20.960 in that world um and it's a while before
  812. 00:27:24.080 you see another human
  813. 00:27:25.840 and even though you've bought the game
  814. 00:27:27.120 you know there's going to be other
  815. 00:27:28.159 humans at least one of this thing where
  816. 00:27:29.919 if you're really
  817. 00:27:30.559 into it there's a moment there's a few
  818. 00:27:33.360 let's call it an hour
  819. 00:27:34.880 where you think am i the only person
  820. 00:27:36.720 alive
  821. 00:27:39.039 um that being said fallout 3's beginning
  822. 00:27:42.960 is the favorite my favorite beginning of
  823. 00:27:45.200 a game that we've
  824. 00:27:46.080 done it is a great beginning and if you
  825. 00:27:48.399 go back and play it it's overly long
  826. 00:27:50.720 it feels long but the first time you
  827. 00:27:52.559 play it
  828. 00:27:54.159 without that opening when you step out
  829. 00:27:56.720 you don't get the
  830. 00:27:57.760 feeling of i've lived my whole life in
  831. 00:28:00.320 the vault
  832. 00:28:02.080 um and that got a lot of question marks
  833. 00:28:05.919 internally when i was pitching it
  834. 00:28:07.600 you know really how long is that going
  835. 00:28:09.600 to take like i don't know
  836. 00:28:11.840 we'll do it feels right but i think it's
  837. 00:28:13.600 important when you step
  838. 00:28:14.880 out yeah not just the visual but the
  839. 00:28:17.600 emotion of it
  840. 00:28:20.080 it it works for like the reality of what
  841. 00:28:24.320 you're
  842. 00:28:25.039 playing yeah massively it can it drives
  843. 00:28:27.760 home like the scope of the world that
  844. 00:28:29.520 you've stepped out into
  845. 00:28:31.200 more so more so than just like you know
  846. 00:28:33.279 you start in a vault you open the door
  847. 00:28:34.799 oh look i'm in a big world like it
  848. 00:28:36.399 it doesn't quite work as well i think
  849. 00:28:37.919 before that fourth thing i have to say
  850. 00:28:39.520 is probably because i'm
  851. 00:28:40.480 i was playing shortly after my wife had
  852. 00:28:43.279 given birth to our son
  853. 00:28:44.960 sorry my first one no no no no no it's
  854. 00:28:46.640 all it was it was you know it was
  855. 00:28:47.760 perfect during paternally one night he's
  856. 00:28:49.440 he's kind of
  857. 00:28:50.159 you know sleeping here and i'm like very
  858. 00:28:52.000 carefully playing while he's asleep
  859. 00:28:53.679 um but i was playing i was playing a
  860. 00:28:55.760 female character and just the idea that
  861. 00:28:57.440 like
  862. 00:28:58.000 right this woman not doing everything to
  863. 00:29:00.240 go and find her son first that just
  864. 00:29:02.159 jarred with me personally that's just
  865. 00:29:03.760 personal circumstance right
  866. 00:29:05.360 and back on track because i'm i'm going
  867. 00:29:07.520 on tangents and i apologize
  868. 00:29:08.880 let's go back to skyrim so skyrim was
  869. 00:29:11.360 the next big game
  870. 00:29:12.960 um not only the most successful elder
  871. 00:29:15.279 scrolls game but i believe you told me
  872. 00:29:16.720 the most successful bethesda game of all
  873. 00:29:18.640 time
  874. 00:29:19.360 why why is it that this one more than
  875. 00:29:21.679 say morrowind
  876. 00:29:22.640 oblivion or even fallout 3 why was it
  877. 00:29:24.640 this game finally drew millions into
  878. 00:29:26.880 kind of the
  879. 00:29:28.480 the the bethesda formula of open world
  880. 00:29:31.200 games
  881. 00:29:33.120 well i can't i you know what if i could
  882. 00:29:35.279 answer that why that one was so
  883. 00:29:37.120 successful it'd be easy to do it time
  884. 00:29:39.360 and time again
  885. 00:29:40.799 i don't you know um i think it touched a
  886. 00:29:43.919 nerve
  887. 00:29:44.399 it was our third go-around within that
  888. 00:29:48.080 hardware cycle
  889. 00:29:49.600 so we had and one of the great things
  890. 00:29:52.240 about
  891. 00:29:52.720 being at um bethesda
  892. 00:29:56.399 i'm going to back up by the way because
  893. 00:29:58.640 when i said i'm sorry i was sticking in
  894. 00:30:00.480 my head like i'm sorry you had a baby i
  895. 00:30:02.480 didn't mean it that way
  896. 00:30:04.159 in my mind i was feeling guilty you just
  897. 00:30:05.679 had a baby and then we kill the wife or
  898. 00:30:08.240 father
  899. 00:30:08.880 and steal it like yeah that that didn't
  900. 00:30:11.760 help i'll be honest
  901. 00:30:12.799 yeah i think it's great that you're
  902. 00:30:15.279 absolutely man that was
  903. 00:30:16.720 it's fine it's fine because i'm thinking
  904. 00:30:19.200 back of shooting we we motion captured
  905. 00:30:21.120 that scene it was quite
  906. 00:30:23.279 okay now we'll go back to scott
  907. 00:30:27.360 you know so i think the timing of skyrim
  908. 00:30:29.600 uh
  909. 00:30:30.799 in terms of ourselves we were really
  910. 00:30:34.000 honing what we what we had been doing
  911. 00:30:37.039 and it's a very inviting game it was the
  912. 00:30:40.159 game
  913. 00:30:40.640 where anybody who liked
  914. 00:30:44.080 fantasy in any way could say hey you
  915. 00:30:47.200 gotta see this
  916. 00:30:48.640 um the platforms had matured by then so
  917. 00:30:51.679 the amount of
  918. 00:30:52.720 um people that had access to the game
  919. 00:30:56.080 you know i think success is is is often
  920. 00:30:58.880 based on access
  921. 00:31:00.159 how many people can easily play it um
  922. 00:31:03.519 and it like it just
  923. 00:31:06.559 it just touched a nerve you mentioned
  924. 00:31:08.480 game of thrones which came out soon
  925. 00:31:10.240 after
  926. 00:31:11.120 so fantasy maybe was in in the zeitgeist
  927. 00:31:13.679 and that was an avenue that people could
  928. 00:31:15.519 apply to it
  929. 00:31:16.320 but ultimately i think it's it's ongoing
  930. 00:31:19.039 success
  931. 00:31:20.399 is kind of what what some not just
  932. 00:31:22.480 skyrim but other what do it would
  933. 00:31:24.640 do well and the thing i think video
  934. 00:31:27.519 games are best at
  935. 00:31:28.880 are are putting people in a world games
  936. 00:31:31.760 do
  937. 00:31:32.000 geography very well and then saying what
  938. 00:31:35.039 would you do here
  939. 00:31:36.240 and then having the world react to it
  940. 00:31:38.320 and skyrim
  941. 00:31:39.919 it does that it has a flow and a vibe
  942. 00:31:43.440 that whether whoever you are
  943. 00:31:46.559 if you like games at all there's
  944. 00:31:48.159 something for you
  945. 00:31:50.159 and the game you give to the game
  946. 00:31:53.840 and the game keeps giving back
  947. 00:31:57.440 you mentioned obviously that you did m
  948. 00:31:58.960 several goes at the hardware cycle
  949. 00:32:00.559 and so it's kind of it was tail end of
  950. 00:32:02.240 the previous generation
  951. 00:32:03.760 um or previous previous generation since
  952. 00:32:05.440 we're on the cusp of the new generation
  953. 00:32:06.640 i lose track we're very
  954. 00:32:08.799 we're on that cusp here don't we um
  955. 00:32:11.840 if you were making skyrim from scratch
  956. 00:32:13.840 for the new consoles because i'm going
  957. 00:32:15.440 to assume that it's going to come to
  958. 00:32:16.559 this
  959. 00:32:17.120 question this is not a trade question
  960. 00:32:18.720 this is a strict question no i promise
  961. 00:32:20.640 you no trick questions here
  962. 00:32:22.240 um if if you were making scarring from
  963. 00:32:25.279 scratch from the new consoles
  964. 00:32:26.799 what would you be able to do that would
  965. 00:32:28.159 be possible now what
  966. 00:32:29.919 that wasn't in the original version like
  967. 00:32:31.600 were there ideas that had to be cut that
  968. 00:32:33.279 ps5 or xbox series x
  969. 00:32:35.120 would have enabled probably just the
  970. 00:32:37.760 amount
  971. 00:32:38.799 of npcs in there obviously you get the
  972. 00:32:41.840 fidelity
  973. 00:32:42.640 right so the graphics will be better but
  974. 00:32:44.240 whatever um
  975. 00:32:46.159 the amount of npcs and the feeling of
  976. 00:32:49.760 the other people in skyrim and how they
  977. 00:32:51.600 react to you the cities are
  978. 00:32:54.960 in your mind like you've been to white
  979. 00:32:56.559 run and that's this this big city
  980. 00:32:58.799 but it's not and maybe there's
  981. 00:33:02.640 20 people walking around total um
  982. 00:33:07.360 so that's probably the main thing where
  983. 00:33:09.360 the hardware and those kind of things
  984. 00:33:10.799 get you
  985. 00:33:11.600 um but by then we had gotten pretty good
  986. 00:33:14.559 with our technology at streaming and
  987. 00:33:16.399 those kind of things
  988. 00:33:17.760 where we were able to throw a lot of
  989. 00:33:19.519 stuff coming in the world
  990. 00:33:22.480 but yeah probably the people i seem to
  991. 00:33:25.279 remember there was um
  992. 00:33:26.399 there were when scotland was first
  993. 00:33:27.760 announced there was a plan to there were
  994. 00:33:29.200 going to be arenas in different cities
  995. 00:33:31.279 um and you were going to be able to play
  996. 00:33:33.200 in different those and that that got cup
  997. 00:33:34.960 um but there was there was this weird
  998. 00:33:36.559 economy feature where like right
  999. 00:33:38.240 if there was a village that was reliant
  1000. 00:33:41.039 on the logging industry
  1001. 00:33:42.399 if you burned down the lumber yard that
  1002. 00:33:44.799 village would
  1003. 00:33:46.000 not be able to trade wood which would
  1004. 00:33:47.279 affect the rest of the world's economy
  1005. 00:33:50.480 we had that working it affected the
  1006. 00:33:52.159 prices but nobody could tell
  1007. 00:33:54.000 like you don't know like oh wow the wood
  1008. 00:33:56.159 is cheaper
  1009. 00:33:57.440 so we took out the price changing just
  1010. 00:34:00.399 wasn't
  1011. 00:34:01.519 impactful but you can still sabotage the
  1012. 00:34:04.080 lumber mills and those kind of things
  1013. 00:34:05.519 and that
  1014. 00:34:06.080 f i believe filters into the civil war
  1015. 00:34:09.280 stuff
  1016. 00:34:10.159 but those those systems work and
  1017. 00:34:11.839 actually there's some very nice
  1018. 00:34:12.879 animations for sabotaging the lumber
  1019. 00:34:14.639 mill
  1020. 00:34:15.199 i clearly have not sabotaged enough
  1021. 00:34:16.719 lumber mills
  1022. 00:34:18.399 just doesn't affect
  1023. 00:34:22.320 um a good character who happened to be a
  1024. 00:34:24.000 thief but um
  1025. 00:34:26.079 the running joke about skyrim is
  1026. 00:34:27.440 obviously that it is on every platform
  1027. 00:34:29.918 um ever uh i'll be honest i have
  1028. 00:34:32.480 actually played the
  1029. 00:34:33.440 alexa version and i really enjoyed it
  1030. 00:34:35.440 for about half an hour before i realized
  1031. 00:34:36.879 it is just an
  1032. 00:34:37.520 endless scene of um procedurally
  1033. 00:34:40.399 randomly generated questions i'm not
  1034. 00:34:41.760 actually
  1035. 00:34:42.239 making any progress all i'm doing is
  1036. 00:34:43.839 wasting half an hour yeah
  1037. 00:34:45.440 you spell there was a joke going like
  1038. 00:34:48.719 hey skyrim's on everything and i was
  1039. 00:34:50.639 reading some reddit thread
  1040. 00:34:52.639 and uh someone posted they should make
  1041. 00:34:55.119 it there's you know so they should make
  1042. 00:34:56.480 it for alexa
  1043. 00:34:58.000 and i was like oh that would be really
  1044. 00:34:59.520 funny and we were going into e3
  1045. 00:35:02.240 and i was like hey what if we made fun
  1046. 00:35:04.240 of ourselves and pretended you know we
  1047. 00:35:06.560 did this fake commercial
  1048. 00:35:08.320 um for the alexa version
  1049. 00:35:11.680 and so we started working so the joke
  1050. 00:35:14.880 was to make the commercial
  1051. 00:35:16.720 like we're poking fun at ourselves going
  1052. 00:35:18.320 to come out in alexa
  1053. 00:35:19.920 but then we took the joke the full way
  1054. 00:35:24.400 so the thing i love about e3 we show the
  1055. 00:35:26.320 thing and you think it's just a joke
  1056. 00:35:27.920 but then if the next day if you say it
  1057. 00:35:29.920 to alexa
  1058. 00:35:31.119 um play skyrim it's real and what's
  1059. 00:35:34.160 great is since alexa's on everything
  1060. 00:35:37.440 skyrim there's an alexa toilet so by
  1061. 00:35:39.920 default
  1062. 00:35:40.640 there you go that's genius um
  1063. 00:35:44.800 are there other platforms you would want
  1064. 00:35:46.320 it to bring it to i don't know if you
  1065. 00:35:47.440 saw the um there was going around um
  1066. 00:35:48.880 twitter like a couple of weeks back
  1067. 00:35:50.480 someone has managed to get doom eternal
  1068. 00:35:52.480 up and running on on the monitor of a
  1069. 00:35:54.720 smart fridge
  1070. 00:35:55.599 so skyrim on smart fridges that seems
  1071. 00:35:57.760 like a you know the next step right
  1072. 00:35:59.359 i think someone has the opening of
  1073. 00:36:01.040 skyrim i saw it on reddit
  1074. 00:36:02.720 on a like digital pregnancy test
  1075. 00:36:06.880 oh it needs a lot i think it's just a
  1076. 00:36:08.240 video feed obviously
  1077. 00:36:10.320 um still gives you a challenge that's a
  1078. 00:36:12.880 pretty good one
  1079. 00:36:14.480 those things that those things are
  1080. 00:36:15.599 single use you could definitely get like
  1081. 00:36:17.040 more money
  1082. 00:36:17.760 if you if you can buy those for their
  1083. 00:36:19.359 use and then play skyrim on that
  1084. 00:36:21.520 we're getting silly now so let's move on
  1085. 00:36:23.359 um
  1086. 00:36:24.880 we touched on fallout 4. i'd like to
  1087. 00:36:26.800 leap ahead to um fallout 76
  1088. 00:36:29.040 sure because this was very very
  1089. 00:36:30.400 different not just from the previous
  1090. 00:36:31.920 fallout games but
  1091. 00:36:32.880 from previous bethesda games because it
  1092. 00:36:34.400 was it was multiplayer centric
  1093. 00:36:36.320 um and the thing that fascinated me the
  1094. 00:36:38.480 idea of like
  1095. 00:36:39.440 uh this this game that gives you quest
  1096. 00:36:41.440 but there are no
  1097. 00:36:42.480 npc quest givers just standing around
  1098. 00:36:44.320 like you're coming out into this ruined
  1099. 00:36:45.760 world and you've got to kind of
  1100. 00:36:46.960 investigate and and find quests
  1101. 00:36:50.000 to do and without some chap standing
  1102. 00:36:52.160 there saying oh
  1103. 00:36:53.119 yes can you go yonder to bandit camp and
  1104. 00:36:55.440 kill them for me
  1105. 00:36:56.560 um what were the big challenges of doing
  1106. 00:36:58.560 that like completely yeah
  1107. 00:36:59.680 multiplier-centric no
  1108. 00:37:00.960 npcs that you can rely on like what are
  1109. 00:37:02.400 the challenges of making fallout 76
  1110. 00:37:04.400 compared to three and four
  1111. 00:37:07.280 geez what wasn't a challenge on that
  1112. 00:37:09.040 game um
  1113. 00:37:11.119 you know that started as a multiplayer
  1114. 00:37:13.680 mode
  1115. 00:37:14.480 in fallout 4. we didn't quite
  1116. 00:37:17.520 you know the quests in fallout 4 like
  1117. 00:37:19.359 okay this is not going to work in a
  1118. 00:37:20.560 multiplayer scenario
  1119. 00:37:22.000 and we were playing a lot of survival
  1120. 00:37:23.520 games at the time dayz was popular some
  1121. 00:37:25.520 other things and we said oh this would
  1122. 00:37:26.960 be
  1123. 00:37:27.920 this would feel really good as a you
  1124. 00:37:30.320 know obviously fallout's a survival game
  1125. 00:37:32.160 let's let's make a prequel
  1126. 00:37:33.920 um so it kind of started as a side
  1127. 00:37:35.680 project
  1128. 00:37:37.040 that grew some momentum we really really
  1129. 00:37:39.200 enjoyed it
  1130. 00:37:40.079 it's a project that changed a lot while
  1131. 00:37:41.599 we were making it so we asked all those
  1132. 00:37:43.440 questions
  1133. 00:37:44.720 um you know the story stuff and the
  1134. 00:37:47.200 quests that went in the game
  1135. 00:37:49.280 didn't go in until i don't want to say
  1136. 00:37:51.760 halfway through the project but it felt
  1137. 00:37:53.280 late
  1138. 00:37:54.000 in the project and i think our designers
  1139. 00:37:57.119 did a
  1140. 00:37:57.680 did a great job with one arm tied behind
  1141. 00:38:00.079 their back trying to tell stories
  1142. 00:38:01.520 through holotapes a lot of them i really
  1143. 00:38:03.280 love
  1144. 00:38:04.000 and terminals and things like that
  1145. 00:38:08.160 and whereas the survival aspects i think
  1146. 00:38:12.320 work for a lot of people we quickly
  1147. 00:38:15.200 recognize that that's
  1148. 00:38:16.560 not the game wasn't really hitting
  1149. 00:38:20.640 with this group it wasn't really giving
  1150. 00:38:23.280 our audience
  1151. 00:38:24.800 what they wanted and i think they were
  1152. 00:38:26.160 really they were really let down
  1153. 00:38:28.720 by what we delivered on on day one
  1154. 00:38:30.960 without a doubt
  1155. 00:38:32.079 um let a lot of people down so
  1156. 00:38:35.520 it over time has drifted if you want to
  1157. 00:38:38.000 play it like a classic fallout game
  1158. 00:38:40.320 it delivers that but you can you can do
  1159. 00:38:42.400 it with friends
  1160. 00:38:43.680 and we've also found a lot of
  1161. 00:38:47.040 of those kind of systemic gameplay that
  1162. 00:38:49.280 we want
  1163. 00:38:50.079 that work in survival but in a nice way
  1164. 00:38:52.400 so
  1165. 00:38:53.359 fortunate the game's in a really really
  1166. 00:38:54.960 good place now um but it's
  1167. 00:38:57.680 you're trying to say hey what were the
  1168. 00:38:58.800 differences oh everything yeah
  1169. 00:39:02.400 well let's go on that and you said like
  1170. 00:39:04.240 you know the game is in a good place now
  1171. 00:39:05.680 and like we've we've seen this here and
  1172. 00:39:07.280 there of
  1173. 00:39:07.839 a game that has come out and not
  1174. 00:39:10.720 performed as expected at launch or
  1175. 00:39:12.400 certainly had some some teething issues
  1176. 00:39:14.000 some troubles at launch certainly had
  1177. 00:39:15.359 like a negative reaction at launch
  1178. 00:39:17.440 but then recovered like so i'm thinking
  1179. 00:39:19.520 things like you know no muscle is the
  1180. 00:39:20.880 big one
  1181. 00:39:21.520 um and i believe drive club managed it
  1182. 00:39:23.520 as well and i think fallout 76 can now
  1183. 00:39:25.200 be
  1184. 00:39:25.520 added to that list like but we've seen
  1185. 00:39:27.599 so many other games where you know it
  1186. 00:39:29.119 comes out it
  1187. 00:39:30.560 struggles a bit at launch and then six
  1188. 00:39:32.880 months a year down the line it is just
  1189. 00:39:34.400 shut down
  1190. 00:39:35.280 and what does it take to take a game
  1191. 00:39:38.160 from
  1192. 00:39:39.119 and there's a strong way of putting it
  1193. 00:39:40.160 but i think it's safe a failed launch or
  1194. 00:39:42.079 at least a
  1195. 00:39:42.880 sure yeah yeah what do you take how do
  1196. 00:39:45.440 you take again from a failed launch to
  1197. 00:39:47.119 one that actually
  1198. 00:39:48.400 people still take seriously because no
  1199. 00:39:50.320 matter what you do to improve it there
  1200. 00:39:52.240 are people who will still hear fallout
  1201. 00:39:53.680 76 and think
  1202. 00:39:54.880 oh that was naf at launch i won't bother
  1203. 00:39:56.800 like sure how
  1204. 00:39:58.079 yeah that that in itself is a big
  1205. 00:39:59.680 challenge like how do you how do you
  1206. 00:40:00.960 recover from a launch like that
  1207. 00:40:03.520 well for better or worse our companies
  1208. 00:40:05.520 done it we had elder scrolls online not
  1209. 00:40:07.520 that wasn't my group
  1210. 00:40:09.520 but the zenimax online folks had been
  1211. 00:40:11.760 through that for us
  1212. 00:40:13.760 elder scrolls online had a you know very
  1213. 00:40:15.760 muted response a very bad launch
  1214. 00:40:18.079 and they retooled the game and really
  1215. 00:40:19.680 put their heads down to solve it and now
  1216. 00:40:21.359 that's one of the most
  1217. 00:40:22.640 popular mmos that has been and still is
  1218. 00:40:26.560 so they helped us a lot in terms of
  1219. 00:40:28.880 here's here's some things you should do
  1220. 00:40:31.119 ultimately we were fortunate i would say
  1221. 00:40:34.800 the main thing that made the difference
  1222. 00:40:36.400 is
  1223. 00:40:37.200 despite the issues um and the very
  1224. 00:40:40.960 well-deserved criticism we got
  1225. 00:40:44.400 there were a lot of people playing it
  1226. 00:40:46.480 there were a lot of people who said
  1227. 00:40:48.480 obviously not the scale of a regular
  1228. 00:40:50.400 fallout we would do like a three or a
  1229. 00:40:52.160 four
  1230. 00:40:53.119 but a lot of people millions of people
  1231. 00:40:56.560 who said i actually want this i want it
  1232. 00:40:58.960 to be good
  1233. 00:41:00.480 and that community so no there is
  1234. 00:41:03.040 something here
  1235. 00:41:04.720 let's keep at it and we also felt look
  1236. 00:41:07.839 we had let
  1237. 00:41:09.200 we had let everybody down and it is
  1238. 00:41:13.359 the i think the only thing to do in that
  1239. 00:41:15.839 case
  1240. 00:41:16.720 is to find a way you're not erasing that
  1241. 00:41:19.200 moment
  1242. 00:41:20.160 but you're making it right for the
  1243. 00:41:22.960 people who
  1244. 00:41:24.560 that is what they wanted they right and
  1245. 00:41:27.599 so
  1246. 00:41:28.800 um hugely proud of the team
  1247. 00:41:31.920 who's worked on the game and month after
  1248. 00:41:34.560 month
  1249. 00:41:35.440 just made it better made it better made
  1250. 00:41:37.839 it better
  1251. 00:41:40.319 so i don't think there's a magic formula
  1252. 00:41:42.800 other than
  1253. 00:41:44.560 um having the discipline to go through
  1254. 00:41:47.200 the work
  1255. 00:41:48.000 but without that community out there
  1256. 00:41:49.760 that said that's
  1257. 00:41:51.599 you know making the game their own um
  1258. 00:41:54.400 really believing in us
  1259. 00:41:56.319 um i don't know that we would have
  1260. 00:41:57.680 gotten to where we are
  1261. 00:42:00.160 and you were saying earlier that uh you
  1262. 00:42:02.640 can now play
  1263. 00:42:03.440 for fallout 76 very much like a
  1264. 00:42:05.200 traditional fallout game
  1265. 00:42:06.640 um and a large part of that has helped
  1266. 00:42:08.560 is the the wastelanders expansion which
  1267. 00:42:10.079 essentially kind of makes it
  1268. 00:42:11.680 almost single player to an extent or at
  1269. 00:42:13.359 least gives you the option to play
  1270. 00:42:14.480 single player
  1271. 00:42:15.520 and when making that kind of
  1272. 00:42:19.200 did that what assumptions do you think
  1273. 00:42:21.359 you made or did you make about what
  1274. 00:42:23.440 people wanted to play in a live service
  1275. 00:42:25.280 game
  1276. 00:42:25.680 that they got wrong and then how did
  1277. 00:42:26.960 wastelanders kind of address that
  1278. 00:42:30.240 well when we went into it
  1279. 00:42:33.839 we wanted to make something different
  1280. 00:42:35.839 but the audience doesn't always want
  1281. 00:42:37.599 something different and that's no fault
  1282. 00:42:40.560 of theirs right it's totally
  1283. 00:42:42.160 understandable and i think maybe we did
  1284. 00:42:45.839 a bad
  1285. 00:42:46.640 job saying how different it
  1286. 00:42:49.680 it's going to be and so
  1287. 00:42:54.400 for us when we went to add the npcs it
  1288. 00:42:56.319 was well how would we
  1289. 00:42:58.079 how would we do this we wanted to make a
  1290. 00:43:00.880 very systemic
  1291. 00:43:02.000 game where the players brought all of
  1292. 00:43:04.240 that to it
  1293. 00:43:07.040 had some successes there but probably
  1294. 00:43:08.880 more more failures
  1295. 00:43:11.119 and once we figured out okay how can we
  1296. 00:43:13.920 tell a story how can we bring npcs in
  1297. 00:43:16.560 where it feels like the world has
  1298. 00:43:18.720 evolved so once we got on that
  1299. 00:43:20.800 hey people have come back and we're
  1300. 00:43:23.280 going to tell this evolving story
  1301. 00:43:25.440 in the world where even if you're the
  1302. 00:43:28.319 trick is
  1303. 00:43:29.520 we didn't want it where if you play 76
  1304. 00:43:32.000 now
  1305. 00:43:33.119 you've missed all of the content that
  1306. 00:43:36.319 was there in the beginning we didn't
  1307. 00:43:37.520 like remove it
  1308. 00:43:38.640 so the trick is doing an evolving world
  1309. 00:43:41.119 and the game's going to obviously
  1310. 00:43:42.160 continue and so we've thought about that
  1311. 00:43:43.680 okay what happens in year three what
  1312. 00:43:45.040 happens in year four et cetera et cetera
  1313. 00:43:47.440 so that was the trick more than the um
  1314. 00:43:50.560 the quest systems per se
  1315. 00:43:54.160 uh it has started to rain here so i
  1316. 00:43:55.760 apologize we're gonna get a very amsr
  1317. 00:43:57.440 sort of effect so i'm gonna keep my
  1318. 00:43:59.520 questions as brief as possible
  1319. 00:44:01.040 and if you were to make a similar game
  1320. 00:44:03.040 in future
  1321. 00:44:04.079 would you still try to keep it purely
  1322. 00:44:05.920 multiplier is there scope for a purely
  1323. 00:44:07.839 multiplayer only style
  1324. 00:44:09.839 bethesda open world game
  1325. 00:44:13.520 i mean you don't want to say never
  1326. 00:44:17.359 um i think the one you know
  1327. 00:44:20.560 the one thing that we would do
  1328. 00:44:22.560 differently is
  1329. 00:44:24.560 put it out there 24 7 live before we're
  1330. 00:44:28.000 really charging people you know full
  1331. 00:44:30.960 price game to play
  1332. 00:44:32.480 you really have to beta test these
  1333. 00:44:34.000 things um for a long period of time
  1334. 00:44:36.480 24 7 with live players so they are they
  1335. 00:44:39.520 are a different
  1336. 00:44:40.240 they are a different animal than a
  1337. 00:44:42.400 regular single player game
  1338. 00:44:43.920 that we would do but i would never um
  1339. 00:44:46.640 it's been
  1340. 00:44:47.200 overall it's been a really positive
  1341. 00:44:48.720 experience for us it's made us much
  1342. 00:44:50.000 better developers it's made us better
  1343. 00:44:52.560 connected with our community and so
  1344. 00:44:55.599 um i can't say it's gonna be a one-off
  1345. 00:44:59.520 obviously the stuff we have coming
  1346. 00:45:00.720 starfield elder scrolls six
  1347. 00:45:02.640 our single-player games um but i
  1348. 00:45:04.560 wouldn't i wouldn't rule it out in the
  1349. 00:45:06.000 future it's been a very positive
  1350. 00:45:07.440 experience
  1351. 00:45:09.280 i'm very conscious of how quickly time
  1352. 00:45:11.040 is getting on but i'm sorry
  1353. 00:45:12.480 i i wish i had two hours with you this
  1354. 00:45:13.920 would be glorious let's look a bit over
  1355. 00:45:15.680 i'm good
  1356. 00:45:16.640 okay good marvelous marvelous um let's
  1357. 00:45:19.440 look a little bit
  1358. 00:45:20.400 further you know the future um what
  1359. 00:45:23.359 possibilities do
  1360. 00:45:24.400 the next gen consoles or you know the
  1361. 00:45:25.920 next generation of here consoles and pc
  1362. 00:45:27.599 hardware
  1363. 00:45:28.079 have for both elder scrolls and fallout
  1364. 00:45:30.079 and more importantly like the
  1365. 00:45:31.520 the engine they run on which critics
  1366. 00:45:34.560 have sometimes argued
  1367. 00:45:35.680 needs a refresh because it's it seems to
  1368. 00:45:38.000 be certainly like
  1369. 00:45:39.119 a similar engine to the one you made the
  1370. 00:45:40.880 morrowind on if not the same as oblivion
  1371. 00:45:42.800 like
  1372. 00:45:43.520 the the tech underneath your your games
  1373. 00:45:47.200 um does that need a refresh and what can
  1374. 00:45:49.839 the next gen
  1375. 00:45:50.800 uh do to kind of help add more oomph to
  1376. 00:45:54.000 it i guess
  1377. 00:45:54.880 sure will we refresh it with every game
  1378. 00:45:57.760 um
  1379. 00:45:58.240 we too will acknowledge it needs uh more
  1380. 00:46:01.200 work than it has in in previous times
  1381. 00:46:03.280 and we do that between
  1382. 00:46:04.720 generations and we've we've been doing
  1383. 00:46:07.599 it i can say
  1384. 00:46:08.480 that the engine work we started a while
  1385. 00:46:11.040 ago
  1386. 00:46:12.160 i didn't want to say oh my god
  1387. 00:46:15.200 it's been a while we have more people
  1388. 00:46:16.880 doing engine work now by a factor of
  1389. 00:46:18.800 five
  1390. 00:46:19.680 probably than we've ever had so the
  1391. 00:46:21.440 overhaul in our engine
  1392. 00:46:22.960 um is the largest we've probably ever
  1393. 00:46:25.760 had
  1394. 00:46:26.240 maybe you know larger than morrowind to
  1395. 00:46:29.280 oblivion
  1396. 00:46:30.319 there are things we do that we still
  1397. 00:46:31.839 like the way we the way we build our
  1398. 00:46:33.520 worlds the way people can mod it these
  1399. 00:46:35.359 are things i think that are
  1400. 00:46:36.480 fundamentally good about our tech stack
  1401. 00:46:40.160 but from rendering to animation to
  1402. 00:46:42.480 pathing to procedural generations i
  1403. 00:46:44.800 don't want to say everything but
  1404. 00:46:46.640 it's a significant significant overhaul
  1405. 00:46:49.599 it's taken us longer than
  1406. 00:46:51.200 we would have liked but um it's
  1407. 00:46:54.720 it's gonna power what we're doing with
  1408. 00:46:56.240 star field and elder scrolls vi
  1409. 00:46:58.480 and i think when when people see the
  1410. 00:47:00.640 results they'll be
  1411. 00:47:02.160 hopefully as happy as we are uh with
  1412. 00:47:04.560 what's on the screen but also in
  1413. 00:47:06.400 how we can go about making our games
  1414. 00:47:11.119 do hardware advances kind of
  1415. 00:47:12.640 automatically mean better games like as
  1416. 00:47:14.640 you as you say like you you
  1417. 00:47:15.920 refresh your technology or you at least
  1418. 00:47:17.359 kind of take a look at your technology
  1419. 00:47:18.480 every time there is
  1420. 00:47:19.200 an advance in uh you know console
  1421. 00:47:22.160 technology and pc
  1422. 00:47:24.079 like but you look like one one of
  1423. 00:47:26.559 bethesda's biggest launch of the last
  1424. 00:47:28.160 few years has been skyrim on switch
  1425. 00:47:30.559 which is an eight-year-old game
  1426. 00:47:32.240 on a console that's essentially a tablet
  1427. 00:47:34.319 with a mobile graphics processor
  1428. 00:47:36.240 like so do we even need super advanced
  1429. 00:47:38.559 consoles and then like a super advanced
  1430. 00:47:40.400 engine i know i'm going against my
  1431. 00:47:41.599 previous question
  1432. 00:47:42.880 but do we need like super advanced
  1433. 00:47:44.720 console super advanced um technology
  1434. 00:47:46.800 to make games that people want to buy i
  1435. 00:47:48.559 guess i mean the short answer is no
  1436. 00:47:51.359 right but you can say okay what does it
  1437. 00:47:54.960 give you
  1438. 00:47:56.240 and i think for the games we make the
  1439. 00:47:59.200 fidelity goes up and yes there's some
  1440. 00:48:01.119 diminishing returns
  1441. 00:48:02.800 over time for the impact of that but i
  1442. 00:48:06.160 do
  1443. 00:48:06.559 think you who's who who plays a lot of
  1444. 00:48:09.440 games
  1445. 00:48:10.240 can go back and think of those games
  1446. 00:48:12.000 they played where they booted it up and
  1447. 00:48:13.760 it
  1448. 00:48:14.240 it put you in this world and you were
  1449. 00:48:15.680 like whoa
  1450. 00:48:17.359 and i think graphics and fidelity
  1451. 00:48:20.559 are a big means to that and so
  1452. 00:48:24.160 i go back to that thing reading the old
  1453. 00:48:25.599 reviews when you when you step out
  1454. 00:48:27.760 into the world of oblivion or you step
  1455. 00:48:30.240 out of the vault and fall out three
  1456. 00:48:32.319 i do think hardware um you know clock
  1457. 00:48:35.520 cycles matter
  1458. 00:48:36.960 in pulling off a a world you step into
  1459. 00:48:41.520 that feels i've i've never seen anything
  1460. 00:48:44.319 like this
  1461. 00:48:44.960 oh my gosh and can i do this and can i
  1462. 00:48:47.760 do
  1463. 00:48:48.000 this um so that
  1464. 00:48:51.040 that moment i still think we can do
  1465. 00:48:56.160 in in new ways and often that relies on
  1466. 00:49:00.079 hardware
  1467. 00:49:01.359 do advances in hardware change how you
  1468. 00:49:04.000 view
  1469. 00:49:04.720 game design and how you approach a
  1470. 00:49:06.079 project um like
  1471. 00:49:08.400 do you get to the stage well their
  1472. 00:49:09.839 moments in technology are great now we
  1473. 00:49:11.680 can do
  1474. 00:49:12.240 this that we could never do before it's
  1475. 00:49:13.760 completely different like are there
  1476. 00:49:15.040 moments like that and what
  1477. 00:49:16.000 sort of examples could you give
  1478. 00:49:19.119 um for us it's been
  1479. 00:49:23.040 the world around you you're pulling off
  1480. 00:49:24.640 the farce in oblivion not something that
  1481. 00:49:26.480 you could do
  1482. 00:49:28.559 before that game i think going forward
  1483. 00:49:30.640 you had already mentioned what would you
  1484. 00:49:31.599 do different i think you know
  1485. 00:49:32.800 the npcs how reactive they are how many
  1486. 00:49:35.040 there are around you
  1487. 00:49:37.119 um but i think when i when i think about
  1488. 00:49:39.119 the next generation
  1489. 00:49:41.040 for me it's about accessibility
  1490. 00:49:45.200 right i'm going to move away from
  1491. 00:49:46.640 fidelity and say
  1492. 00:49:48.400 you look at the new consoles how fast
  1493. 00:49:50.000 they load or the quick resume
  1494. 00:49:52.079 stuff on xbox i just want to play this
  1495. 00:49:54.480 game
  1496. 00:49:55.200 now i want to be right where i was and
  1497. 00:49:57.280 then maybe i can pick that up on my
  1498. 00:49:58.720 phone or a tablet or another console or
  1499. 00:50:00.720 my pc
  1500. 00:50:01.839 so i think that friction between i'm
  1501. 00:50:04.480 playing them into it and i
  1502. 00:50:06.400 i want to pick that up and have it go
  1503. 00:50:08.160 with me and have it kind of be
  1504. 00:50:10.079 frictionless
  1505. 00:50:11.839 i think ultimately the next
  1506. 00:50:15.119 five years i'll go further even 10
  1507. 00:50:18.800 is about making that seamless for
  1508. 00:50:21.839 everybody who loves games and bringing
  1509. 00:50:23.760 that to people
  1510. 00:50:25.040 who are in parts of the world or their
  1511. 00:50:27.280 or their technology
  1512. 00:50:28.559 that they have access to as far as
  1513. 00:50:30.319 hardware is not as available maybe
  1514. 00:50:32.559 they're on tablets or phones
  1515. 00:50:34.160 um and and bringing everything we're
  1516. 00:50:36.720 doing
  1517. 00:50:37.440 to everybody you have mentioned
  1518. 00:50:40.559 starfield a few times so i feel i feel
  1519. 00:50:42.559 i'm now allowed to ask
  1520. 00:50:43.920 um i i want to ask about starfield but i
  1521. 00:50:47.680 know that like it's it's
  1522. 00:50:48.880 far enough out that you're not going to
  1523. 00:50:50.000 give me anything concrete today like
  1524. 00:50:51.599 when
  1525. 00:50:52.559 when will we hear more about starfields
  1526. 00:50:54.400 because it was announced what two
  1527. 00:50:56.079 years ago three years ago
  1528. 00:50:59.119 two yeah two years ago yeah so it's it's
  1529. 00:51:02.240 been out there a while and all we've
  1530. 00:51:03.920 seen is a teaser like
  1531. 00:51:06.000 when can we expect more i can't
  1532. 00:51:09.520 i honestly cannot answer that right now
  1533. 00:51:11.920 um but i had to ask
  1534. 00:51:13.359 no that's fair to ask and yeah the
  1535. 00:51:16.800 reason we announced that stuff is we're
  1536. 00:51:19.839 at the time doing 76 and elder scrolls
  1537. 00:51:23.280 mobile game
  1538. 00:51:24.319 and we wanted to make sure our fans knew
  1539. 00:51:26.160 here are the things coming up
  1540. 00:51:28.160 we knew at the time look these things
  1541. 00:51:29.520 are going to be a ways off but it still
  1542. 00:51:31.599 felt better to engage and say
  1543. 00:51:33.920 here's what we're making um
  1544. 00:51:36.960 look it's going to be a while till
  1545. 00:51:38.559 people hear about it and really really
  1546. 00:51:40.559 see it
  1547. 00:51:42.559 and i could debate that right so a lot
  1548. 00:51:46.000 of us say we should just start showing
  1549. 00:51:47.680 stuff
  1550. 00:51:49.280 but then you worry about showing some
  1551. 00:51:50.880 things and then people get really
  1552. 00:51:52.079 excited they're like then the next
  1553. 00:51:53.119 question is when's it coming out you're
  1554. 00:51:54.240 like well
  1555. 00:51:55.119 just wait or then it gets delayed or the
  1556. 00:51:57.520 you know etc
  1557. 00:51:58.559 etc and we like to
  1558. 00:52:02.079 as much as possible when we show it
  1559. 00:52:04.160 really be able to show
  1560. 00:52:05.839 what the final product feels like looks
  1561. 00:52:08.720 like and we're
  1562. 00:52:09.440 we're closer to release so that we're
  1563. 00:52:11.760 100 confident here it is
  1564. 00:52:14.319 here's what it does and here's when you
  1565. 00:52:16.559 can play it
  1566. 00:52:18.319 but again i could i could debate that
  1567. 00:52:19.839 there's no i've seen it done every way
  1568. 00:52:22.000 and there's no
  1569. 00:52:22.720 there's no right or wrong i guess that's
  1570. 00:52:24.720 a big challenge in itself is like
  1571. 00:52:26.160 managing the expectations you've
  1572. 00:52:27.359 announced it exists
  1573. 00:52:28.640 and now there is already in anticipation
  1574. 00:52:30.960 and momentum and
  1575. 00:52:32.000 expectations growing like people are
  1576. 00:52:33.920 probably already assuming like it's
  1577. 00:52:35.040 elder scrolls in space or fall out in
  1578. 00:52:36.559 space like
  1579. 00:52:37.200 and it might not be it might be
  1580. 00:52:38.160 something completely different like but
  1581. 00:52:40.640 how do you manage that because like as
  1582. 00:52:42.079 as you say like when i'm going back to
  1583. 00:52:44.160 our ascarim
  1584. 00:52:45.040 example earlier like i remember hearing
  1585. 00:52:47.280 when it was an outside all right there's
  1586. 00:52:48.400 going to be this cool
  1587. 00:52:49.280 thing where you can just mess with the
  1588. 00:52:50.720 world's economy and there's going to be
  1589. 00:52:52.640 arenas in every city and like you're
  1590. 00:52:54.720 just going to randomly find
  1591. 00:52:56.400 dragons knocking the random dragons
  1592. 00:52:58.079 thing that how how that happened
  1593. 00:53:00.079 billing what people announce
  1594. 00:53:03.760 is then what people expect even though
  1595. 00:53:05.599 development can change
  1596. 00:53:06.800 so much in just the course of a couple
  1597. 00:53:08.480 of years but particularly on the time
  1598. 00:53:10.160 scale we're talking
  1599. 00:53:11.040 here like how do you manage expectations
  1600. 00:53:14.880 i think i've found that the audience is
  1601. 00:53:16.880 pretty as long as you tell them they're
  1602. 00:53:18.160 pretty forgiving
  1603. 00:53:19.040 right hey this changed um
  1604. 00:53:22.960 i just don't want to string them along
  1605. 00:53:24.559 too long you get kind of fatigued
  1606. 00:53:28.559 so you have to balance that fatigue of
  1607. 00:53:30.559 wanting something versus
  1608. 00:53:32.240 you know consumer excitement i think
  1609. 00:53:34.480 more than anything
  1610. 00:53:35.440 also it takes time to be frank you know
  1611. 00:53:37.920 preparing trailers and demos and assets
  1612. 00:53:39.920 they take time away from development
  1613. 00:53:42.160 and you know i can remember some games
  1614. 00:53:44.720 we've done where
  1615. 00:53:46.319 you're doing it multiple years and and
  1616. 00:53:49.280 it's like you have to top yourself
  1617. 00:53:51.680 so you do an initial demo and people get
  1618. 00:53:54.160 excited but then time goes on so of
  1619. 00:53:55.920 course they're not excited anymore so
  1620. 00:53:57.119 you have to top
  1621. 00:53:58.319 your previous demo and i'd rather just
  1622. 00:54:02.079 spend all that time focusing on the game
  1623. 00:54:04.640 and
  1624. 00:54:05.119 and prepare kind of what one big demo
  1625. 00:54:09.440 and you know i think once we did it with
  1626. 00:54:11.520 fallout 4 where it was pretty cl
  1627. 00:54:13.599 short um i've seen that happen more with
  1628. 00:54:16.640 other games
  1629. 00:54:17.359 with with with good success i don't
  1630. 00:54:19.599 think their
  1631. 00:54:20.720 impact in the market has been hurt in
  1632. 00:54:23.280 any way that
  1633. 00:54:24.160 that i've noticed and we are definitely
  1634. 00:54:27.760 running
  1635. 00:54:28.400 short and time so i'm going to start i'm
  1636. 00:54:29.599 narrowed down to like i've got three
  1637. 00:54:31.040 more things
  1638. 00:54:31.520 to talk to you about um we spoke
  1639. 00:54:34.880 recently and you told me uh or you
  1640. 00:54:36.640 reminded me rather that skyrim turns 10
  1641. 00:54:38.880 years old next year
  1642. 00:54:40.480 um and as you were saying about how like
  1643. 00:54:42.640 you you now have to think about like you
  1644. 00:54:44.319 know when you design games you're
  1645. 00:54:45.520 designing them
  1646. 00:54:46.319 that may be played for a decade like
  1647. 00:54:48.000 single-player games that may be played
  1648. 00:54:49.920 by people for a decade either the same
  1649. 00:54:52.240 people i have friends who are still
  1650. 00:54:53.760 playing skyrim
  1651. 00:54:54.880 or um or you know you can just different
  1652. 00:54:57.040 people spread across
  1653. 00:54:58.000 the time when it comes to starfield and
  1654. 00:55:00.960 elder scrolls six like the the success
  1655. 00:55:02.960 you've had with fallout and skyrim
  1656. 00:55:04.960 um and fallout 76 like the lessons
  1657. 00:55:07.440 you've learned
  1658. 00:55:08.240 does that change how you design games
  1659. 00:55:10.400 you're designing this
  1660. 00:55:11.440 knowing that people are going to play it
  1661. 00:55:13.920 for
  1662. 00:55:14.720 you know a much longer period of time
  1663. 00:55:16.880 with or without mods and obviously in
  1664. 00:55:18.640 this age of
  1665. 00:55:19.760 you know games being updated constantly
  1666. 00:55:21.680 as a live set i'm not necessarily saying
  1667. 00:55:23.119 either star field or i'll score six our
  1668. 00:55:24.799 live service games
  1669. 00:55:25.760 but like there is that expectation that
  1670. 00:55:27.440 games are going to evolve over time
  1671. 00:55:29.040 does that change how you start a project
  1672. 00:55:31.440 or how you
  1673. 00:55:32.079 how you tackle it in the early stages
  1674. 00:55:35.359 it has it has post skyrim um
  1675. 00:55:39.839 and we're always i don't know why i'm
  1676. 00:55:42.319 always surprised at how much people play
  1677. 00:55:43.839 it i think
  1678. 00:55:44.640 you know you you go and see the stats
  1679. 00:55:46.400 and say the median time
  1680. 00:55:48.480 not average the median time is you know
  1681. 00:55:50.839 170 hours
  1682. 00:55:53.280 and given this how many people are
  1683. 00:55:54.799 playing like wow um
  1684. 00:55:57.680 so not only do we have a fortunate big
  1685. 00:56:00.000 audience they just play
  1686. 00:56:01.359 all the time i said i mean that in a
  1687. 00:56:03.200 good way so that does
  1688. 00:56:04.559 change where hey hey we're doing this
  1689. 00:56:06.880 and this is how much content so you feel
  1690. 00:56:08.559 good this is what someone's going to get
  1691. 00:56:10.480 how does it compare to other things they
  1692. 00:56:11.920 might spend their entertainment
  1693. 00:56:13.760 dollars on but it becomes more than that
  1694. 00:56:16.799 like they're investing
  1695. 00:56:18.480 in this world their time has
  1696. 00:56:21.920 real meaning to them and
  1697. 00:56:25.520 it does to us as well so
  1698. 00:56:29.359 how can it go on forever
  1699. 00:56:34.000 and that's a very it's a very different
  1700. 00:56:36.240 way of designing
  1701. 00:56:37.200 when you use the word forever because
  1702. 00:56:40.079 that's the word you have to use i can't
  1703. 00:56:41.359 be like i designed this this will last
  1704. 00:56:43.040 for three years
  1705. 00:56:44.000 versus you know seven or ten um maybe
  1706. 00:56:46.960 someone can do that i cannot
  1707. 00:56:48.480 um so you have to think in terms of
  1708. 00:56:51.520 forever and
  1709. 00:56:54.559 there are there are ways to do that but
  1710. 00:56:56.960 that are
  1711. 00:56:58.240 they're easier than you think the easy
  1712. 00:57:00.480 ones but they water down
  1713. 00:57:02.960 the minute to minute and the hour to
  1714. 00:57:04.880 hour
  1715. 00:57:06.480 where you don't want the minutes and
  1716. 00:57:07.839 minute and the hour to hour to feel like
  1717. 00:57:10.160 a
  1718. 00:57:10.839 grind and we've all experienced to do
  1719. 00:57:14.000 that
  1720. 00:57:15.200 so um
  1721. 00:57:18.640 part of that for us too is the modding
  1722. 00:57:22.000 community
  1723. 00:57:24.839 that they've been with us for a long
  1724. 00:57:27.520 time so it's not that we
  1725. 00:57:28.960 rely on them per se to add content but
  1726. 00:57:31.839 it's part of the vibe
  1727. 00:57:33.520 of the game where from the get-go
  1728. 00:57:38.000 it feels endless and then
  1729. 00:57:41.839 it has systems that can systemically
  1730. 00:57:45.280 be doing content and then as much as we
  1731. 00:57:48.000 can we're still making stuff for skyrim
  1732. 00:57:49.920 through creation club and some other
  1733. 00:57:51.359 things with some people in the community
  1734. 00:57:53.200 then you have mods
  1735. 00:57:54.720 um and 76 obviously it's very systemic
  1736. 00:57:57.760 system so the players are able to do a
  1737. 00:57:59.599 lot we have a lot of cool stuff coming
  1738. 00:58:01.200 and something we're still
  1739. 00:58:02.559 you know updating on a monthly basis um
  1740. 00:58:06.000 so we've been i also have been very very
  1741. 00:58:07.839 fortunate there um
  1742. 00:58:09.520 not not everybody is in the same way
  1743. 00:58:11.359 where it
  1744. 00:58:12.799 you have the ability to do it and you
  1745. 00:58:14.559 have a fan base
  1746. 00:58:16.160 um that is heavily involved in that as
  1747. 00:58:19.200 well
  1748. 00:58:21.280 and we spoke recently uh more in depth
  1749. 00:58:23.839 about the microsoft acquisition
  1750. 00:58:25.200 um and at the risk of a subtle blog you
  1751. 00:58:27.280 can read that on gamesroot.biz
  1752. 00:58:29.119 um but i would be remiss if i didn't
  1753. 00:58:30.640 mention it here um let's talk about like
  1754. 00:58:32.880 what was the impact of
  1755. 00:58:34.400 the microsoft acquisition and i know
  1756. 00:58:36.960 it's early days but like the impact on
  1757. 00:58:38.400 your
  1758. 00:58:39.359 your company your approach to
  1759. 00:58:42.400 the you know the future the series
  1760. 00:58:44.000 you're working on and your ability to
  1761. 00:58:45.520 evolve them like what does this enable
  1762. 00:58:48.160 sure and first of all we've worked with
  1763. 00:58:50.240 them for a really long time
  1764. 00:58:52.240 so it kind of was i think maybe a shock
  1765. 00:58:55.440 to a lot of people but it's more natural
  1766. 00:58:57.280 than
  1767. 00:58:58.079 you might think internally particularly
  1768. 00:59:00.079 for for my group our games every game
  1769. 00:59:02.160 i've done
  1770. 00:59:03.280 we've done you know morrowind was
  1771. 00:59:06.559 helped us a lot and then oblivion and
  1772. 00:59:08.319 skyrim and fallouts we've you know
  1773. 00:59:10.240 every game i've done there's been some
  1774. 00:59:12.720 co-development
  1775. 00:59:13.680 and publishing arrangement that we've
  1776. 00:59:16.319 had
  1777. 00:59:17.119 and so we've had a lot of conversations
  1778. 00:59:19.040 with them like hey what would the next
  1779. 00:59:20.480 step
  1780. 00:59:21.119 look like and feel
  1781. 00:59:25.040 we've been in line with them for a long
  1782. 00:59:26.880 time on you know
  1783. 00:59:28.559 their view of where gaming can go
  1784. 00:59:32.319 and been friends with phil for for a
  1785. 00:59:34.720 very long time
  1786. 00:59:35.760 and love the way they think about their
  1787. 00:59:37.920 players um
  1788. 00:59:39.200 the gaming community overall and
  1789. 00:59:42.720 i guess i could boil it down and say
  1790. 00:59:45.280 feel strongly
  1791. 00:59:46.000 this is going to allow us to make better
  1792. 00:59:48.720 games the best games
  1793. 00:59:50.400 and reach even more people and that's
  1794. 00:59:53.839 what's
  1795. 00:59:54.720 at the end of the day most important to
  1796. 00:59:56.160 us how does um
  1797. 00:59:58.240 game pass factor into this because
  1798. 00:59:59.920 obviously game pass
  1799. 01:00:01.440 there's two things here like one is that
  1800. 01:00:02.960 the game pass will enable people that
  1801. 01:00:04.480 people that may not have spent fifty
  1802. 01:00:06.000 sixty dollars on fallout within lashes
  1803. 01:00:07.920 on game pass i'm subscribed i'll
  1804. 01:00:09.119 download it i'm gonna give it a go i'll
  1805. 01:00:10.400 be perfectly honest
  1806. 01:00:11.440 i'm tempted to give fallout 76 ago now
  1807. 01:00:13.520 it's on i am very much a single-player
  1808. 01:00:15.280 gamer
  1809. 01:00:15.760 multiplayer fallout didn't appeal now
  1810. 01:00:17.520 it's on game i was like i'll give it a
  1811. 01:00:18.720 go
  1812. 01:00:19.280 and so there's that side of things but
  1813. 01:00:20.799 there's also like you're designing
  1814. 01:00:22.000 something that
  1815. 01:00:23.440 because it's so easy for people to get
  1816. 01:00:24.880 it if they're already subscribed it's so
  1817. 01:00:26.240 easy for them to get in
  1818. 01:00:27.280 but it's also really easy for them just
  1819. 01:00:28.720 get out and delete like so you've
  1820. 01:00:30.640 you've got to think about like a
  1821. 01:00:31.680 redemption retention as it were
  1822. 01:00:33.760 when it comes to designing future games
  1823. 01:00:35.520 how does like a subscription service
  1824. 01:00:37.599 kind of factor into that
  1825. 01:00:39.920 i think when you're designing the game
  1826. 01:00:42.319 it doesn't factor in
  1827. 01:00:44.240 really at all per se you when any game
  1828. 01:00:47.040 you make you want people to enjoy it and
  1829. 01:00:48.559 want to come back to it and think about
  1830. 01:00:49.920 it when they're when they're not playing
  1831. 01:00:51.680 but the one thing game pass or
  1832. 01:00:53.280 subscription services like it
  1833. 01:00:55.280 um can bring you look at what it's
  1834. 01:00:57.839 brought to
  1835. 01:00:58.720 to television where certain types of
  1836. 01:01:01.680 content
  1837. 01:01:02.640 you know really high budget excellent
  1838. 01:01:05.440 drama stuff you know left the theaters
  1839. 01:01:07.280 that left regular television regular
  1840. 01:01:08.880 television
  1841. 01:01:09.520 went to lowest common denominator cheap
  1842. 01:01:13.200 reality television show whatever there's
  1843. 01:01:15.440 a lot of that
  1844. 01:01:16.880 and so what it allows is when you're
  1845. 01:01:18.720 when you're thinking about what you
  1846. 01:01:20.079 could do
  1847. 01:01:21.280 or what kind of games are you going to
  1848. 01:01:22.880 green light
  1849. 01:01:24.400 it opens up the palette dramatically
  1850. 01:01:28.079 because you're not worried about someone
  1851. 01:01:29.920 saying do i even want to take the time
  1852. 01:01:32.240 to buy that
  1853. 01:01:33.599 regardless of the price whether it's 60
  1854. 01:01:35.680 or 30 or 20
  1855. 01:01:37.520 um and just say oh i i heard that was
  1856. 01:01:40.480 really good i'll oh i own it i'll just
  1857. 01:01:42.319 try it
  1858. 01:01:43.359 so it's really really good for
  1859. 01:01:46.400 creators for you know i was worried
  1860. 01:01:48.960 maybe four to five years ago
  1861. 01:01:50.559 that certain types of games that we all
  1862. 01:01:53.520 love
  1863. 01:01:54.400 would kind of go away they would either
  1864. 01:01:56.319 be like match three
  1865. 01:01:58.000 free to play stuff or sixty dollar
  1866. 01:02:02.160 kind of big budget and then nothing else
  1867. 01:02:05.359 has a
  1868. 01:02:06.720 an avenue to be successful and with
  1869. 01:02:09.520 something like this
  1870. 01:02:11.119 i think it it opens it up dramatically
  1871. 01:02:14.400 and lets people exp it's already
  1872. 01:02:16.079 happened to me i'm sure it's happened to
  1873. 01:02:17.200 you like where you have game pass and
  1874. 01:02:18.640 you say oh i own that i haven't
  1875. 01:02:19.920 experienced that i want it
  1876. 01:02:21.200 i'm going to try that i'm going to try
  1877. 01:02:22.480 this or you hear your outer wilds
  1878. 01:02:25.039 you know a game that i probably wouldn't
  1879. 01:02:26.960 have played if it wasn't for
  1880. 01:02:28.960 for game pass um so i think it's a
  1881. 01:02:33.039 a hugely positive thing for everybody
  1882. 01:02:37.039 but it's still not the only thing you'll
  1883. 01:02:38.480 still have your big ticket things that
  1884. 01:02:40.319 are going to come out
  1885. 01:02:41.520 and they're they're going to be 60 games
  1886. 01:02:43.440 you're still going to have games that
  1887. 01:02:44.640 are going to be
  1888. 01:02:45.599 free to play across everything that
  1889. 01:02:47.520 monetize
  1890. 01:02:48.960 again like television whether it's ad
  1891. 01:02:50.880 revenue or some other things
  1892. 01:02:54.160 last question and thank you so much for
  1893. 01:02:55.680 your time today and last question
  1894. 01:02:58.319 kind of going very right back to the
  1895. 01:02:59.680 start like what advice would you give to
  1896. 01:03:01.920 aspiring designers
  1897. 01:03:03.039 um and to your younger self now i mean
  1898. 01:03:05.039 this in two contexts
  1899. 01:03:06.400 what would you what advice would you
  1900. 01:03:07.599 give to your younger self way back in
  1901. 01:03:09.760 the 90s before he started like what
  1902. 01:03:11.440 things would he need to
  1903. 01:03:12.480 know or think about and then if your
  1904. 01:03:14.319 younger self was starting now
  1905. 01:03:16.160 and we're making a terminator game now
  1906. 01:03:18.720 or whatever it might be
  1907. 01:03:20.240 what advice do you have for people who
  1908. 01:03:22.400 want to be the next todd howard
  1909. 01:03:25.599 when your parents say put the video
  1910. 01:03:27.599 games down that'll do nothing for you
  1911. 01:03:29.359 just say
  1912. 01:03:30.079 you wait
  1913. 01:03:33.200 um i think the main advice
  1914. 01:03:37.599 and we we've said this for a while is
  1915. 01:03:40.559 great games are played
  1916. 01:03:42.079 not made don't don't think you have the
  1917. 01:03:43.520 most brilliant idea you have to make
  1918. 01:03:45.119 stuff
  1919. 01:03:46.319 and um not be so beholden to i have the
  1920. 01:03:51.200 best idea it's
  1921. 01:03:52.799 it's a team effort right um
  1922. 01:03:55.839 i work i've worked with a lot of the
  1923. 01:03:57.280 same people for 20 years
  1924. 01:03:59.520 and we're pretty open to criticism from
  1925. 01:04:03.280 each other and our fans and getting
  1926. 01:04:04.799 better at it but
  1927. 01:04:05.680 you just need to make stuff see how it
  1928. 01:04:08.240 feels to you
  1929. 01:04:09.200 how it feels to other people and you're
  1930. 01:04:11.440 going to have a lot of failures
  1931. 01:04:13.839 some of those will be public and some of
  1932. 01:04:15.200 those will be private failures before
  1933. 01:04:16.720 they
  1934. 01:04:17.280 they see it and i think today
  1935. 01:04:20.319 if you look at that advice if you were
  1936. 01:04:23.039 said you were saying you know
  1937. 01:04:24.799 how does it translate today people's
  1938. 01:04:27.200 ability to make games and put them out
  1939. 01:04:29.599 and have people touch them
  1940. 01:04:31.200 is unlike at any other point in history
  1941. 01:04:34.559 so when people usually come to us who
  1942. 01:04:36.319 say well go ahead and make something put
  1943. 01:04:37.920 it up
  1944. 01:04:38.640 let people play it you'll you'll learn
  1945. 01:04:40.799 more
  1946. 01:04:41.680 um and enjoy the process along the way
  1947. 01:04:46.559 that is all we have time for that's
  1948. 01:04:48.240 probably more than we had time for
  1949. 01:04:49.599 um todd thank you so much for your time
  1950. 01:04:52.160 and
  1951. 01:04:52.640 congratulations again on your develop
  1952. 01:04:54.079 star award
  1953. 01:04:55.760 thank you very much thank you all for
  1954. 01:04:58.240 joining us uh if you're tuning in late
  1955. 01:04:59.920 or missed something
  1956. 01:05:00.799 and if i've done my job right i have
  1957. 01:05:02.559 write up should be going live on games
  1958. 01:05:04.319 and studio biz any second
  1959. 01:05:06.000 now ish you can see and hear more from
  1960. 01:05:08.960 todd
  1961. 01:05:09.440 when you watch the develop star awards
  1962. 01:05:10.880 ceremony at 5 pm uk time on wednesday
  1963. 01:05:13.520 and you can find out more about the rest
  1964. 01:05:14.799 of the great talks happening this week
  1965. 01:05:16.160 at developconference.com
  1966. 01:05:25.680 you
  1967.  
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