No spam complaint in cloudflare's abuse form

No spam complaint in cloudflare's abuse form
FYI, there's no Internet Abuse / SPAM complaint option available on cloudflare's abuse form so there's no way to report SPAMMING to cloudflare. This has been missing for years despite complaints. It therefore seems cloudflare could CARE LESS about Internet Abuse.
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You can submit your report directly to CloudFlare and they'll pass it along to the hosting provider: https://www.cloudflare.com/abuse/form
FYI, there's no Internet Abuse / SPAM complaint option available on cloudflare's abuse form so there's no way to report SPAMMING to cloudflare. This has been missing for years despite complaints. It therefore seems cloudflare could CARE LESS about Internet Abuse.
If someone sends you spam then you should be able to get their sending IP address from the mail headers, it has nothing to do with CloudFlare's reverse proxy web service, you'd be able to report the spam directly to the hosting provider.
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If someone sends you spam then you should be able to get their sending IP address from the mail headers, it has nothing to do with CloudFlare's reverse proxy web service, you'd be able to report the spam directly to the hosting provider.
Agreed. I think since they do not offer mail service and the mail IP can be traced using mail headers, they do not want to accept these type of complaint. You could still try contacting them and report spamming activities. They would send your complaint to the provider.
FYI, there's no Internet Abuse / SPAM complaint option available on cloudflare's abuse form so there's no way to report SPAMMING to cloudflare. This has been missing for years despite complaints. It therefore seems cloudflare could CARE LESS about Internet Abuse.
Could you elaborate as to why you feel a company that provides no email services to its clients should accept email spam reports? What would your expectation be should they accept such reports?
Yeah considering CloudFlare don't offer mail services this is ridiculous.
Now if you had received mail from Cloudflare themselves different issue, but they can't do much about random people and companies emailing you that is what decent spam filtering exists to prevent.
I get spam to our company mailboxes on a daily basis but the bulk of it is caught by spam filtering.
It therefore seems cloudflare couldn't CARE LESS about Internet Abuse.
Fixed that for you.
Yeah considering CloudFlare don't offer mail services this is ridiculous.
Now if you had received mail from Cloudflare themselves different issue, but they can't do much about random people and companies emailing you that is what decent spam filtering exists to prevent.
I get spam to our company mailboxes on a daily basis but the bulk of it is caught by spam filtering.
I love spam that gets sent to billing@, sales@, abuse@, support@, etc. IMHO spammers should probably cull their lists of these common company-based emails as it's a waste of resources.
What I'm taking about is domains which are being used to send spam and are hiding behind CloudFlare. Since 2006, I've been involved in reporting and shutting down spamming & scam operations. I've gotten spammers / scammers arrested, prosecuted and put in prison. To do that, you sometomes need to be able to see the name serves and who's hosting their site.

When spammers who are using a domain they own to send spam use CloudFlare, they can hide the hosting service their using behind CloudFlare which is protecting them and enabling them to break the law.

Violations of CAN SPAM is a Federal Offense. If you don't understand all of the technical aspects of how spammers operate, please don't post comments criticizing me when you have no experience with this. The responses I've received in this thread is a waste of time so I'm unsubscribing. I'd delete this entire thread if there were a way to do it.
If you don't understand all of the technical aspects of how spammers operate, please don't post comments
I'm actually wondering if you understand how it all works. I'm all for shutting down spam, and scams, but the technicals of your statements thus far have all been jabberwocky. You've smushed several aspects into a single action, and that's just now how it works.

As such, I also heavily doubt this assertion: "I've gotten spammers / scammers arrested, prosecuted and put in prison"

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Perhaps visit https://krebsonsecurity.com, and brush up on your anti-spam/scam knowledge.
If someone sends you spam then you should be able to get their sending IP address from the mail headers, it has nothing to do with CloudFlare's reverse proxy web service, you'd be able to report the spam directly to the hosting provider.
I find fault with the claim that this "has nothing to do with CloudFlare" since they are providing service to the CTA (Call To Action) site.

I'm sure they enjoy that fine distinction of "we're not actually hosting it" as they cheerfully charge the spammers card and take their money while shedding great big crocodile tears over how they can't do anything about it.
Could you elaborate as to why you feel a company that provides no email services to its clients should accept email spam reports? What would your expectation be should they accept such reports?
Oh that's easy. About half the spam I examine on a daily basis has the CTA hosted through Cloudflare's service. The company that is hosting the spamvertised site, or as in this case the company that is proxying the requests for that spamvertised site is just as culpable as the network the spam originated from for the abuse that person is responsible for -- arguably more so, as without Cloudflare to shield them the actual hosts would be called to account much more rapidly.

The spam does not originate from within Cloudflare's network, but Cloudflare is an active participant in the abuse, and they should bloody well take responsibility for the spammer's they're shielding and supporting.
for THEE in `cat /sys/hell | grep -w heart`; do /bin/stab $THEE ; done
I find fault with the claim that this "has nothing to do with CloudFlare" since they are providing service to the CTA (Call To Action) site.
I'm sure they enjoy that fine distinction of "we're not actually hosting it" as they cheerfully charge the spammers card and take their money while shedding great big crocodile tears over how they can't do anything about it.
Oh that's easy. About half the spam I examine on a daily basis has the CTA hosted through Cloudflare's service. The company that is hosting the spamvertised site, or as in this case the company that is proxying the requests for that spamvertised site is just as culpable as the network the spam originated from for the abuse that person is responsible for -- arguably more so, as without Cloudflare to shield them the actual hosts would be called to account much more rapidly.
The spam does not originate from within Cloudflare's network, but Cloudflare is an active participant in the abuse, and they should bloody well take responsibility for the spammer's they're shielding and supporting.
This is a complex topic.

But, in short, even the domain (usually) has nothing to do with CloudFlare, aside from masking the host. There are still ways to locate registrar, but there are proper channels for takedown and confiscation. What we don't need is vigilantes, because scammers play the same games. So there's a process to prevent fraudulent activity, though that is a constantly-shifting game.

It's like any other crime. You can acquire as many facts as possible, then report to authorities. Anything "hidden" will require legal actions, though proper channels.
This is a complex topic.
No, actually - when you cut out all the kruft it's pretty simple.

Cloudflare is providing service to and assisting spammers.

It is not an accident that Cloudflare does not include "spam" as one of the things one can report to them. They know damn well that they're aiding and abetting spammers - and they flat-out don't care so long as that credit card remains valid.

"Send all the spam you want, we'll make sure your web site works!"

They are no different than any other spam hosting provider.
for THEE in `cat /sys/hell | grep -w heart`; do /bin/stab $THEE ; done
No, actually - when you cut out all the kruft it's pretty simple.

Cloudflare is providing service to and assisting spammers.

It is not an accident that Cloudflare does not include "spam" as one of the things one can report to them. They know damn well that they're aiding and abetting spammers - and they flat-out don't care so long as that credit card remains valid.

"Send all the spam you want, we'll make sure your web site works!"

They are no different than any other spam hosting provider.

How would you propose that CloudFlare make the difference between a false spam complaint and a valid one? since the spam traffic isn't actually going out through their network. This would open up the possibility for anyone to take down your CloudFlare website with faked email headers and complaints, as CloudFlare would have no way of validating the claim. This is why you report the spam directly to the hosting provider.
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The exact same way every other host that finds spammer web sites hosted on their service - by requiring more than one complaint and from more than one submitter.

We'll investigate, but we're highly unlikely to take action if a single person complains that one of the sites we host is being advertised via spam.

We'll definitely take action after the complaints get numerous enough.

Quote Originally Posted by Andei  View Post
since the spam traffic isn't actually going out through their network. This would open up the possibility for anyone to take down your CloudFlare website with faked email headers and complaints, as CloudFlare would have no way of validating the claim.
Yea that's just bollocks. The odds of anyone trying that are minuscule to say the least and the odds that they would be successful in their attempt is non-existent.
This is why you report the spam directly to the hosting provider.
... and they keep right on running that site through Cloudflare since that actually works to their advantage. They don't have to change their DNS - just where Cloudflare is pointing the clicks with almost no down time.

Without Cloudflare these spammers wouldn't last half as long as they currently do.
for THEE in `cat /sys/hell | grep -w heart`; do /bin/stab $THEE ; done
Questions:

For all I know, CF doesn't transfer mail - mail IP is visible.
If a spamer uses their hosting server for sending spam - it should be visible from the e-mail also.
If they are using a mail service (like MailGun and the likes), spam e-mail should point to them, am I correct? If that's the case, I'd start addressing the spam problem with a report to the e-mail service provider.

Finding out who hosts a website, without an IP, or registrar info, just domain name, would probably require some legal papers - involving a report to authorities.
Cloudflare is a tool used in that spaming process, but so are the ISP's. Still, I'm not convinced they are the first address to go to with reporting a spam problem. Can't say I blame them for not wanting to bother with that dirty work.
Mostly harmless?
The exact same way every other host that finds spammer web sites hosted on their service - by requiring more than one complaint and from more than one submitter.

We'll investigate, but we're highly unlikely to take action if a single person complains that one of the sites we host is being advertised via spam.

We'll definitely take action after the complaints get numerous enough.
I don't think this is how most reputable providers are operating. Outbound mail filtering/logging/alerts coupled with even a single report should be enough to let you know whether a client is sending spam.
They don't have to change their DNS - just where Cloudflare is pointing the clicks with almost no down time.

Without Cloudflare these spammers wouldn't last half as long as they currently do.
To my knowledge, like @bikegremlin said, cloudflare isn't hiding mail servers and they don't transfer any mail, and the origin server definitely isn't hidden in the mail headers.

It is not the responsibility of Cloudflare to mitigate mail spam which does not originate from their IP space. Abuse reports should go to the correct party.

As @Andei said, Cloudflare has no way to validate abuse reports for mail which doesn't pass through their network. But under your theory of how they should do it, Sneaky, I could just send a few fake abuse emails and have anyone kicked off Cloudflare since they can't validate a single one of those reports.
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I don't think this is how most reputable providers are operating. Outbound mail filtering/logging/alerts coupled with even a single report should be enough to let you know whether a client is sending spam.

To my knowledge, like @bikegremlin said, cloudflare isn't hiding mail servers and they don't transfer any mail, and the origin server definitely isn't hidden in the mail headers.
This is not and has not been about where the spam is coming from.

This is Cloudflare being used to proxy-host the Call To Action for that spam - the spamvertised URL that recipients are asked to click on. "See my naughty pictures by clicking here!"
It is not the responsibility of Cloudflare to mitigate mail spam which does not originate from their IP space. Abuse reports should go to the correct party.
That correct party is Cloudflare.

There is not a reputable host on the planet, certainly none here, that will permit spammers to host their domains with them - regardless of where the spam originates.

Seriously - what seems to be the disconnect here?

Contact your web hosting provider - tell them you're going to rent a Russian spambot farm and start advertising your web site that way - let us know whether your host is OK with that.

I'm going to let you in on a little secret - they won't be.
As @Andei said, Cloudflare has no way to validate abuse reports for mail which doesn't pass through their network.
Again - bollocks.
But under your theory of how they should do it, Sneaky, I could just send a few fake abuse emails and have anyone kicked off Cloudflare since they can't validate a single one of those reports.
Yea good luck with that. It's not actually that easy to do and it's like recommending that people not go swimming in the ocean because they just watched Jaws. Can they be victims of a great white shark attack? Sure. The odds of it actually happening (let alone being successful)? Nill.

So long as the spammer's credit cards continue to be valid, Cloudflare is only too happy to continue helping those spammers.
for THEE in `cat /sys/hell | grep -w heart`; do /bin/stab $THEE ; done
This is not and has not been about where the spam is coming from.
OP is talking about reporting spam to Cloudflare, and he said he's "had people arrested for spamming," and then followed it up with:
When spammers who are using a domain they own to send spam use CloudFlare
As well as him referring to the CAN SPAM act, which to my knowledge has only ever been enforced against email spammers.
The odds of it actually happening (let alone being successful)? Nill.
So you don't think fake abuse reports have ever resulted in a customer being suspended/terminated?
So long as the spammer's credit cards continue to be valid, Cloudflare is only too happy to continue helping those spammers.
Use of Cloudflare's basic HTTP CDN is completely free, you don't have to have a credit card bound to the account to have your website IP address hidden. But that does not apply to mail servers.
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You cannot make the assumption that the CTA is directly tied to the spam. Likely, probably. For sure, no. That would require an investigation through proper channels, not the internet vigilantes. It's a fine line between allowing false takedowns and deserved ones. But you're (thankfully) not the one who makes that decision. Too many people want to knee-jerk erase the internet because they don't like something, think it's illegal/etc. Some people are just a-holes, and want to screw others. Some just like to watch the world burn. If you want to amateur investigate, and turn those findings over to the authorities, then great. But you're not judge, jury, and executioner simply because you feel righteous.

And understand I say all this detesting spam. We should put all spammers on a rocket and launch it into the sun. But your ideas would load innocent victims onto the rocket.
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Agree with the rest of the post - simple, good old common sense.
Mostly harmless?
You can send a abuse complaint at abuse@cloudflare.com .Make sure you attach the logs of abuse activity.
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