The Social Dilemma (2020) EN

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[eerie instrumental music playing]

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[interviewer] Why don't you go ahead?
Sit down and see if you can get comfy.

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-You good? All right.
-Yeah. [exhales]

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-[interviewer] Um...
-[cell phone vibrates]

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[crew member] Take one, marker.

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[interviewer] Wanna start
by introducing yourself?

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[crew member coughs]

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Hello, world. Bailey. Take three.

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-[interviewer] You good?
-This is the worst part, man.

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[chuckling] I don't like this.

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I worked at Facebook in 2011 and 2012.

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I was one of the really early employees
at Instagram.

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[man 1] <i>I worked at, uh, Google,</i>
<i>uh, YouTube.</i>

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[woman] <i>Apple, Google, Twitter, Palm.</i>

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I helped start Mozilla Labs
and switched over to the Firefox side.

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-[interviewer] Are we rolling? Everybody?
-[crew members reply]

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[interviewer] Great.

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[man 2] I worked at Twitter.

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My last job there

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was the senior vice president
of engineering.

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-[man 3] I was the president of Pinterest.
-[sips]

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Before that, um,
I was the... the director of monetization

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at Facebook for five years.

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While at Twitter, I spent a number
of years running their developer platform,

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and then I became
head of consumer product.

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I was the coinventor of Google Drive,
Gmail Chat,

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Facebook Pages,
and the Facebook like button.

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Yeah. This is... This is why I spent,
like, eight months

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talking back and forth with lawyers.

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This freaks me out.

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[man 2] When I was there,

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I always felt like,
fundamentally, it was a force for good.

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I don't know if I feel that way anymore.

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I left Google in June 2017, uh,
due to ethical concerns.

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And... And not just at Google
but within the industry at large.

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I'm very concerned.

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I'm very concerned.

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It's easy today to lose sight of the fact

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that these tools actually have created
some wonderful things in the world.

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They've reunited lost family members.
They've found organ donors.

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I mean, there were meaningful,
systemic changes happening

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around the world
because of these platforms

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that were positive!

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I think we were naive
about the flip side of that coin.

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Yeah, these things, you release them,
and they take on a life of their own.

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And how they're used is pretty different
than how you expected.

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Nobody, I deeply believe,
ever intended any of these consequences.

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There's no one bad guy.
No. Absolutely not.

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[interviewer] So, then,
what's the... what's the problem?

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[interviewer] Is there a problem,
and what is the problem?

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[swallows]

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[clicks tongue] Yeah, it is hard
to give a single, succinct...

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I'm trying to touch on
many different problems.

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[interviewer] What is the problem?

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[clicks tongue, chuckles]

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[birds singing]

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[dog barking in distance]

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[reporter 1]
<i>Despite facing mounting criticism,</i>

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<i>the so-called Big Tech names</i>
<i>are getting bigger.</i>

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The entire tech industry is
under a new level of scrutiny.

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And a new study sheds light on the link

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between mental health
and social media use.

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[on TV]
<i>Here to talk about the latest research...</i>

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[Tucker Carlson] <i>...is going on</i>
<i>that gets no coverage at all.</i>

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<i>Tens of millions of Americans</i>
<i>are hopelessly addicted</i>

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<i>to their electronic devices.</i>

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[reporter 2] <i>It's exacerbated by the fact</i>

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<i>that you can literally isolate yourself</i>
<i>now</i>

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in a bubble, thanks to our technology.

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Fake news is becoming more advanced

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and threatening societies
around the world.

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We weren't expecting any of this
when we created Twitter over 12 years ago.

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White House officials say
they have no reason to believe

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the Russian cyberattacks will stop.

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YouTube is being forced
to concentrate on cleansing the site.

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[reporter 3] <i>TikTok,</i>
<i>if you talk to any tween out there...</i>

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[on TV] <i>...there's no chance</i>
<i>they'll delete this thing...</i>

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Hey, Isla,
can you get the table ready, please?

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[reporter 4] <i>There's a question</i>
<i>about whether social media</i>

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<i>is making your child depressed.</i>

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[mom] Isla,
can you set the table, please?

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[reporter 5] <i>These cosmetic procedures</i>
<i>are becoming so popular with teens,</i>

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plastic surgeons have coined
a new syndrome for it,

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"Snapchat dysmorphia,"
with young patients wanting surgery

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so they can look more like they do
in filtered selfies.

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Still don't see why you let her have
that thing.

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What was I supposed to do?

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I mean, every other kid
in her class had one.

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She's only 11.

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Cass, no one's forcing you to get one.

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You can stay disconnected
as long as you want.

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Hey, I'm connected without a cell phone,
okay? I'm on the Internet right now.

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Also, that isn't even actual connection.
It's just a load of sh--

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Surveillance capitalism has come to shape

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our politics and culture
in ways many people don't perceive.

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[reporter 6]
<i>ISIS inspired followers online,</i>

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<i>and now white supremacists</i>
<i>are doing the same.</i>

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Recently in India,

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Internet lynch mobs have killed
a dozen people, including these five...

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[reporter 7] <i>It's not just fake news;</i>
<i>it's fake news with consequences.</i>

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[reporter 8] <i>How do you handle an epidemic</i>
<i>in the age of fake news?</i>

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Can you get the coronavirus
by eating Chinese food?

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We have gone from the information age
into the disinformation age.

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Our democracy is under assault.

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[man 4] What I said was,
"I think the tools

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that have been created today are starting

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to erode the social fabric
of how society works."

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[eerie instrumental music continues]

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-[music fades]
-[indistinct chatter]

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[crew member] Fine.

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[stage manager] Aza does
welcoming remarks. We play the video.

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And then, "Ladies and gentlemen,
Tristan Harris."

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-Right.
-[stage manager] Great.

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So, I come up, and...

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basically say, "Thank you all for coming."
Um...

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So, today, I wanna talk about a new agenda
for technology.

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And why we wanna do that
is because if you ask people,

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"What's wrong in the tech industry
right now?"

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there's a cacophony of grievances
and scandals,

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and "They stole our data."
And there's tech addiction.

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And there's fake news.
And there's polarization

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and some elections
that are getting hacked.

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But is there something
that is beneath all these problems

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that's causing all these things
to happen at once?

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[stage manager speaking indistinctly]

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-Does this feel good?
-Very good. Yeah.

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Um... [sighs]

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I'm just trying to...
Like, I want people to see...

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Like, there's a problem happening
in the tech industry,

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and it doesn't have a name,

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and it has to do with one source,
like, one...

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[eerie instrumental music playing]

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[Tristan] When you look around you,
it feels like the world is going crazy.

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You have to ask yourself, like,
"Is this normal?

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Or have we all fallen under some kind
of spell?"

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I wish more people could understand
how this works

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because it shouldn't be something
that only the tech industry knows.

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It should be something
that everybody knows.

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[backpack zips]

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[softly] Bye.

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[guard] Here you go, sir.

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-[employee] Hello!
-[Tristan] Hi.

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-Tristan. Nice to meet you.
<i>-</i>It's Tris-<i>tan, </i>right?

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-Yes.
-Awesome. Cool.

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[presenter] Tristan Harris
is a former design ethicist for Google

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and has been called the closest thing
Silicon Valley has to a conscience.

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[reporter] He's asking tech

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to bring what he calls "ethical design"
to its products.

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[Anderson Cooper] <i>It's rare</i>
<i>for a tech insider to be so blunt,</i>

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<i>but Tristan Harris believes</i>
<i>someone needs to be.</i>

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[Tristan] When I was at Google,

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I was on the Gmail team,
and I just started getting burnt out

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'cause we'd had
so many conversations about...

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you know, what the inbox should look like
and what color it should be, and...

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And I, you know, felt personally addicted
to e-mail,

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and I found it fascinating

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there was no one at Gmail working
on making it less addictive.

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And I was like,
"Is anybody else thinking about this?

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I haven't heard anybody talk about this."

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-And I was feeling this frustration...
-[sighs]

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...with the tech industry, overall,

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that we'd kind of, like, lost our way.

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-[ominous instrumental music playing]
-[message alerts chiming]

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[Tristan] You know, I really struggled
to try and figure out

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how, from the inside, we could change it.

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[energetic piano music playing]

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[Tristan] And that was when I decided
to make a presentation,

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kind of a call to arms.

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Every day, I went home and I worked on it
for a couple hours every single night.

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[typing]

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[Tristan] It basically just said,
you know,

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never before
in history have 50 designers--

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20- to 35-year-old white guys
in California--

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made decisions that would have an impact
on two billion people.

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Two billion people will have thoughts
that they didn't intend to have

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because a designer at Google said,
"This is how notifications work

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on that screen that you wake up to
in the morning."

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And we have a moral responsibility,
as Google, for solving this problem.

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And I sent this presentation

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to about 15, 20 of my closest colleagues
at Google,

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and I was very nervous about it.
I wasn't sure how it was gonna land.

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When I went to work the next day,

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most of the laptops
had the presentation open.

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Later that day, there was, like,
400 simultaneous viewers,

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so it just kept growing and growing.

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I got e-mails from all around the company.
I mean, people in every department saying,

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"I totally agree."
"I see this affecting my kids."

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"I see this affecting
the people around me."

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"We have to do something about this."

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It felt like I was sort of launching
a revolution or something like that.

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Later, I found out Larry Page
had been notified about this presentation

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-in three separate meetings that day.
-[indistinct chatter]

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[Tristan] And so, it created
this kind of cultural moment

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-that Google needed to take seriously.
-[whooshing]

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-[Tristan] And then... nothing.
-[whooshing fades]

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[message alerts chiming]

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[Tim] Everyone in 2006...

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including all of us at Facebook,

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just had total admiration for Google
and what Google had built,

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which was this incredibly useful service

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that did, far as we could tell,
lots of goodness for the world,

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and they built
this parallel money machine.

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We had such envy for that,
and it seemed so elegant to us...

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and so perfect.

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Facebook had been around
for about two years,

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um, and I was hired to come in
and figure out

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what the business model was gonna be
for the company.

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I was the director of monetization.
The point was, like,

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"You're the person who's gonna figure out
how this thing monetizes."

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And there were a lot of people
who did a lot of the work,

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but I was clearly one of the people
who was pointing towards...

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"Well, we have to make money, A...

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and I think this advertising model
is probably the most elegant way.

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[bright instrumental music playing]

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Uh-oh. What's this video Mom just sent us?

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Oh, that's from a talk show,
but that's pretty good.

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Guy's kind of a genius.

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He's talking all about deleting
social media, which you gotta do.

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I might have to start blocking
her e-mails.

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I don't even know
what she's talking about, man.

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She's worse than I am.

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-No, she only uses it for recipes.
-Right, and work.

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-And workout videos.
-[guy] And to check up on us.

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And everyone else she's ever met
in her entire life.

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<i>If you are scrolling through</i>
<i>your social media feed</i>

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<i>while you're watchin' us, you need to put</i>
<i>the damn phone down and listen up</i>

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00:12:11,814 --> 00:12:14,817
'cause our next guest has written
an incredible book

228
00:12:14,900 --> 00:12:18,112
about how much it's wrecking our lives.

229
00:12:18,195 --> 00:12:19,447
Please welcome author

230
00:12:19,530 --> 00:12:23,951
of<i> Ten Arguments for Deleting</i>
<i>Your Social Media Accounts Right Now...</i>

231
00:12:24,034 --> 00:12:26,287
-[Sunny Hostin] Uh-huh.
-...Jaron Lanier.

232
00:12:26,370 --> 00:12:27,913
[cohosts speaking indistinctly]

233
00:12:27,997 --> 00:12:31,834
[Jaron] Companies like Google and Facebook
are some of the wealthiest

234
00:12:31,917 --> 00:12:33,544
and most successful of all time.

235
00:12:33,711 --> 00:12:36,839
Uh, they have relatively few employees.

236
00:12:36,922 --> 00:12:41,427
They just have this giant computer
that rakes in money, right? Uh...

237
00:12:41,510 --> 00:12:42,970
Now, what are they being paid for?

238
00:12:43,053 --> 00:12:45,222
[chuckles]
That's a really important question.

239
00:12:47,308 --> 00:12:50,311
[Roger] So, I've been an investor
in technology for 35 years.

240
00:12:51,020 --> 00:12:54,356
The first 50 years of Silicon Valley,
the industry made products--

241
00:12:54,440 --> 00:12:55,566
hardware, software--

242
00:12:55,649 --> 00:12:58,402
sold 'em to customers.
Nice, simple business.

243
00:12:58,486 --> 00:13:01,447
For the last ten years,
the biggest companies in Silicon Valley

244
00:13:01,530 --> 00:13:03,866
have been in the business
of selling their users.

245
00:13:03,949 --> 00:13:05,910
It's a little even trite to say now,

246
00:13:05,993 --> 00:13:09,205
but... because we don't pay
for the products that we use,

247
00:13:09,288 --> 00:13:12,166
advertisers pay
for the products that we use.

248
00:13:12,249 --> 00:13:14,210
Advertisers are the customers.

249
00:13:14,710 --> 00:13:16,086
We're the thing being sold.

250
00:13:16,170 --> 00:13:17,630
The classic saying is:

251
00:13:17,713 --> 00:13:21,592
"If you're not paying for the product,
 then you <i>are </i>the product."

252
00:13:23,385 --> 00:13:27,223
A lot of people think, you know,
"Oh, well, Google's just a search box,

253
00:13:27,306 --> 00:13:29,850
and Facebook's just a place to see
what my friends are doing

254
00:13:29,934 --> 00:13:31,101
and see their photos."

255
00:13:31,185 --> 00:13:35,481
But what they don't realize
is they're competing for your attention.

256
00:13:36,524 --> 00:13:41,111
So, you know, Facebook, Snapchat,
Twitter, Instagram, YouTube,

257
00:13:41,195 --> 00:13:45,699
companies like this, their business model
is to keep people engaged on the screen.

258
00:13:46,283 --> 00:13:49,578
Let's figure out how to get
as much of this person's attention

259
00:13:49,662 --> 00:13:50,955
as we possibly can.

260
00:13:51,455 --> 00:13:53,374
How much time can we get you to spend?

261
00:13:53,874 --> 00:13:56,669
How much of your life can we get you
to give to us?

262
00:13:58,629 --> 00:14:01,090
[Justin] When you think about
how some of these companies work,

263
00:14:01,173 --> 00:14:02,424
it starts to make sense.

264
00:14:03,050 --> 00:14:06,095
There are all these services
on the Internet that we think of as free,

265
00:14:06,178 --> 00:14:09,473
but they're not free.
They're paid for by advertisers.

266
00:14:09,557 --> 00:14:11,559
Why do advertisers pay those companies?

267
00:14:11,642 --> 00:14:14,687
They pay in exchange for showing their ads
to us.

268
00:14:14,770 --> 00:14:18,357
We're the product. Our attention
is the product being sold to advertisers.

269
00:14:18,816 --> 00:14:20,442
That's a little too simplistic.

270
00:14:20,860 --> 00:14:23,654
It's the gradual, slight,
imperceptible change

271
00:14:23,737 --> 00:14:26,574
in your own behavior and perception
that is the product.

272
00:14:27,658 --> 00:14:30,244
And that <i>is </i>the product.
It's the only possible product.

273
00:14:30,327 --> 00:14:34,081
There's nothing else on the table
that could possibly be called the product.

274
00:14:34,164 --> 00:14:37,001
That's the only thing there is
for them to make money from.

275
00:14:37,668 --> 00:14:39,253
Changing what you do,

276
00:14:39,336 --> 00:14:41,714
how you think, who you are.

277
00:14:42,631 --> 00:14:45,301
It's a gradual change. It's slight.

278
00:14:45,384 --> 00:14:48,971
If you can go to somebody and you say,
"Give me $10 million,

279
00:14:49,054 --> 00:14:54,310
and I will change the world one percent
in the direction you want it to change..."

280
00:14:54,852 --> 00:14:58,188
It's the world! That can be incredible,
and that's worth a lot of money.

281
00:14:59,315 --> 00:15:00,149
Okay.

282
00:15:00,691 --> 00:15:04,570
[Shoshana] This is what every business
has always dreamt of:

283
00:15:04,653 --> 00:15:10,910
to have a guarantee that if it places
an ad, it will be successful.

284
00:15:11,327 --> 00:15:12,786
That's their business.

285
00:15:12,870 --> 00:15:14,413
They sell certainty.

286
00:15:14,997 --> 00:15:17,625
In order to be successful
in that business,

287
00:15:17,708 --> 00:15:19,793
you have to have great predictions.

288
00:15:20,085 --> 00:15:24,173
Great predictions begin
with one imperative:

289
00:15:25,215 --> 00:15:26,926
you need a lot of data.

290
00:15:29,136 --> 00:15:31,305
Many people call this
surveillance capitalism,

291
00:15:31,639 --> 00:15:34,350
capitalism profiting
off of the infinite tracking

292
00:15:34,433 --> 00:15:38,062
of everywhere everyone goes
by large technology companies

293
00:15:38,145 --> 00:15:40,356
whose business model is to make sure

294
00:15:40,439 --> 00:15:42,858
that advertisers are as successful
as possible.

295
00:15:42,942 --> 00:15:45,569
This is a new kind of marketplace now.

296
00:15:45,653 --> 00:15:48,072
It's a marketplace
that never existed before.

297
00:15:48,822 --> 00:15:55,371
And it's a marketplace
that trades exclusively in human futures.

298
00:15:56,080 --> 00:16:01,585
Just like there are markets that trade
in pork belly futures or oil futures.

299
00:16:02,127 --> 00:16:07,591
We now have markets
that trade in human futures at scale,

300
00:16:08,175 --> 00:16:13,472
and those markets have produced
the trillions of dollars

301
00:16:14,014 --> 00:16:19,269
that have made the Internet companies
the richest companies

302
00:16:19,353 --> 00:16:22,356
in the history of humanity.

303
00:16:23,357 --> 00:16:25,359
[indistinct chatter]

304
00:16:27,361 --> 00:16:30,990
[Jeff] What I want people to know
is that everything they're doing online

305
00:16:31,073 --> 00:16:34,326
<i>is </i>being watched, <i>is </i>being tracked,
<i>is </i>being measured.

306
00:16:35,035 --> 00:16:39,623
Every single action you take
is carefully monitored and recorded.

307
00:16:39,707 --> 00:16:43,836
Exactly what image you stop and look at,
for how long you look at it.

308
00:16:43,919 --> 00:16:45,796
Oh, yeah, seriously,
for how long you look at it.

309
00:16:45,879 --> 00:16:47,881
[monitors beeping]

310
00:16:50,509 --> 00:16:52,219
[Tristan] <i>They know</i>
<i>when people are lonely.</i>

311
00:16:52,302 --> 00:16:53,804
<i>They know when people are depressed.</i>

312
00:16:53,887 --> 00:16:57,099
<i>They know when people are looking</i>
<i>at photos of your ex-romantic partners.</i>

313
00:16:57,182 --> 00:17:00,853
<i>They know what you're doing late at night.</i>
<i>They know the entire thing.</i>

314
00:17:01,270 --> 00:17:03,230
<i>Whether you're an introvert</i>
<i>or an extrovert,</i>

315
00:17:03,313 --> 00:17:06,817
<i>or what kind of neuroses you have,</i>
<i>what your personality type is like.</i>

316
00:17:08,193 --> 00:17:11,613
[Shoshana] They have more information
about us

317
00:17:11,696 --> 00:17:14,324
than has ever been imagined
in human history.

318
00:17:14,950 --> 00:17:16,367
It is unprecedented.

319
00:17:18,579 --> 00:17:22,790
And so, all of this data that we're...
that we're just pouring out all the time

320
00:17:22,875 --> 00:17:26,753
is being fed into these systems
that have almost no human supervision

321
00:17:27,463 --> 00:17:30,883
and that are making better and better
and better and better predictions

322
00:17:30,966 --> 00:17:33,552
about what we're gonna do
and... and who we are.

323
00:17:33,635 --> 00:17:35,637
[indistinct chatter]

324
00:17:36,305 --> 00:17:39,349
[Aza] People have the misconception
it's our data being sold.

325
00:17:40,350 --> 00:17:43,187
It's not in Facebook's business interest
to give up the data.

326
00:17:45,522 --> 00:17:47,107
What do they do with that data?

327
00:17:49,401 --> 00:17:50,986
[console whirring]

328
00:17:51,070 --> 00:17:54,490
[Aza] They build models
that predict our actions,

329
00:17:54,573 --> 00:17:57,618
and whoever has the best model wins.

330
00:18:02,706 --> 00:18:04,041
His scrolling speed is slowing.

331
00:18:04,124 --> 00:18:06,085
Nearing the end
of his average session length.

332
00:18:06,168 --> 00:18:07,002
Decreasing ad load.

333
00:18:07,086 --> 00:18:08,337
Pull back on friends and family.

334
00:18:09,588 --> 00:18:11,340
[Tristan] On the other side of the screen,

335
00:18:11,423 --> 00:18:15,469
it's almost as if they had
this avatar voodoo doll-like model of us.

336
00:18:16,845 --> 00:18:18,180
All of the things we've ever done,

337
00:18:18,263 --> 00:18:19,473
all the clicks we've ever made,

338
00:18:19,556 --> 00:18:21,642
all the videos we've watched,
all the likes,

339
00:18:21,725 --> 00:18:25,354
that all gets brought back into building
a more and more accurate model.

340
00:18:25,896 --> 00:18:27,481
The model, once you have it,

341
00:18:27,564 --> 00:18:29,858
you can predict the kinds of things
that person does.

342
00:18:29,942 --> 00:18:31,777
Right, let me just test.

343
00:18:32,569 --> 00:18:34,988
[Tristan] Where you'll go.
I can predict what kind of videos

344
00:18:35,072 --> 00:18:36,115
will keep you watching.

345
00:18:36,198 --> 00:18:39,159
I can predict what kinds of emotions tend
to trigger you.

346
00:18:39,243 --> 00:18:40,410
[blue AI] Yes, perfect.

347
00:18:41,578 --> 00:18:43,372
The most epic fails of the year.

348
00:18:46,125 --> 00:18:47,543
-[crowd groans on video]
-[whooshes]

349
00:18:48,627 --> 00:18:51,088
-Perfect. That worked.
-Following with another video.

350
00:18:51,171 --> 00:18:54,049
Beautiful. Let's squeeze in a sneaker ad
before it starts.

351
00:18:56,426 --> 00:18:58,178
[Tristan] At a lot
of technology companies,

352
00:18:58,262 --> 00:18:59,721
there's three main goals.

353
00:18:59,805 --> 00:19:01,348
There's the engagement goal:

354
00:19:01,431 --> 00:19:03,684
to drive up your usage,
to keep you scrolling.

355
00:19:04,601 --> 00:19:06,145
There's the growth goal:

356
00:19:06,228 --> 00:19:08,689
to keep you coming back
and inviting as many friends

357
00:19:08,772 --> 00:19:10,816
and getting them to invite more friends.

358
00:19:11,650 --> 00:19:13,152
And then there's the advertising goal:

359
00:19:13,235 --> 00:19:14,987
to make sure that,
as all that's happening,

360
00:19:15,070 --> 00:19:17,406
we're making as much money as possible
from advertising.

361
00:19:18,115 --> 00:19:19,158
[console beeps]

362
00:19:19,241 --> 00:19:21,994
Each of these goals are powered
by algorithms

363
00:19:22,077 --> 00:19:24,454
whose job is to figure out
what to show you

364
00:19:24,538 --> 00:19:26,165
to keep those numbers going up.

365
00:19:26,623 --> 00:19:29,918
We often talked about, at Facebook,
this idea

366
00:19:30,002 --> 00:19:34,006
of being able to just dial that as needed.

367
00:19:34,673 --> 00:19:38,594
And, you know, we talked
about having Mark have those dials.

368
00:19:41,305 --> 00:19:44,474
"Hey, I want more users in Korea today."

369
00:19:45,684 --> 00:19:46,602
"Turn the dial."

370
00:19:47,436 --> 00:19:49,188
"Let's dial up the ads a little bit."

371
00:19:49,980 --> 00:19:51,899
"Dial up monetization, just slightly."

372
00:19:52,858 --> 00:19:55,444
And so, that happ--

373
00:19:55,527 --> 00:19:59,239
I mean, at all of these companies,
there is that level of precision.

374
00:19:59,990 --> 00:20:02,409
-Dude, how--
-I don't know how I didn't get carded.

375
00:20:02,492 --> 00:20:05,704
-That ref just, like, sucked or something.
-You got literally all the way...

376
00:20:05,787 --> 00:20:07,956
-That's Rebecca. Go talk to her.
-I know who it is.

377
00:20:08,040 --> 00:20:10,834
-Dude, yo, go talk to her.
-[guy] I'm workin' on it.

378
00:20:10,918 --> 00:20:14,171
His calendar says he's on a break
right now. We should be live.

379
00:20:14,755 --> 00:20:16,465
[sighs] Want me to nudge him?

380
00:20:17,132 --> 00:20:18,050
Yeah, nudge away.

381
00:20:18,133 --> 00:20:19,092
[console beeps]

382
00:20:21,637 --> 00:20:24,181
"Your friend Tyler just joined.
Say hi with a wave."

383
00:20:26,016 --> 00:20:27,184
[Engagement AI] Come on, Ben.

384
00:20:27,267 --> 00:20:29,311
Send a wave. [sighs]

385
00:20:29,394 --> 00:20:32,606
-You're not... Go talk to her, dude.
-[phone vibrates, chimes]

386
00:20:33,857 --> 00:20:35,484
-[Ben sighs]
-[cell phone chimes]

387
00:20:36,902 --> 00:20:37,986
[console beeps]

388
00:20:38,070 --> 00:20:40,447
New link! All right, we're on. [exhales]

389
00:20:40,948 --> 00:20:46,078
Follow that up with a post
from User 079044238820, Rebecca.

390
00:20:46,161 --> 00:20:49,790
Good idea. GPS coordinates indicate
that they're in close proximity.

391
00:20:55,921 --> 00:20:57,172
He's primed for an ad.

392
00:20:57,631 --> 00:20:58,632
Auction time.

393
00:21:00,133 --> 00:21:02,803
Sold! To Deep Fade hair wax.

394
00:21:03,387 --> 00:21:07,933
We had 468 interested bidders. We sold Ben
at 3.262 cents for an impression.

395
00:21:08,850 --> 00:21:10,852
[melancholy piano music playing]

396
00:21:14,147 --> 00:21:15,065
[Ben sighs]

397
00:21:17,109 --> 00:21:18,735
[Jaron] We've created a world

398
00:21:18,819 --> 00:21:21,530
in which online connection
has become primary,

399
00:21:22,072 --> 00:21:23,907
especially for younger generations.

400
00:21:23,991 --> 00:21:28,328
And yet, in that world,
any time two people connect,

401
00:21:29,162 --> 00:21:33,250
the only way it's financed
is through a sneaky third person

402
00:21:33,333 --> 00:21:35,627
who's paying to manipulate
those two people.

403
00:21:36,128 --> 00:21:39,381
So, we've created
an entire global generation of people

404
00:21:39,464 --> 00:21:44,011
who are raised within a context
where the very meaning of communication,

405
00:21:44,094 --> 00:21:47,431
the very meaning of culture,
is manipulation.

406
00:21:47,514 --> 00:21:49,641
We've put deceit and sneakiness

407
00:21:49,725 --> 00:21:52,311
at the absolute center
of everything we do.

408
00:22:05,615 --> 00:22:07,242
-[interviewer] Grab the...
-[Tristan] Okay.

409
00:22:07,326 --> 00:22:09,286
-Where's it help to hold it?
-[interviewer] Great.

410
00:22:09,369 --> 00:22:10,787
-[Tristan] Here?
-[interviewer] Yeah.

411
00:22:10,871 --> 00:22:13,832
How does this come across on camera
if I were to do, like, this move--

412
00:22:13,915 --> 00:22:15,542
-[interviewer] We can--
-[blows] Like that?

413
00:22:15,625 --> 00:22:16,918
-[interviewer laughs] What?
-Yeah.

414
00:22:17,002 --> 00:22:19,004
-[interviewer] Do that again.
-Exactly. Yeah. [blows]

415
00:22:19,087 --> 00:22:20,589
Yeah. No, it's probably not...

416
00:22:20,672 --> 00:22:21,965
Like... yeah.

417
00:22:22,466 --> 00:22:23,884
I mean, this one is less...

418
00:22:29,681 --> 00:22:33,268
[interviewer laughs] Larissa's, like,
actually freaking out over here.

419
00:22:34,728 --> 00:22:35,562
Is that good?

420
00:22:35,645 --> 00:22:37,773
[instrumental music playing]

421
00:22:37,856 --> 00:22:41,068
[Tristan] I was, like, five years old
when I learned how to do magic.

422
00:22:41,151 --> 00:22:45,781
And I could fool adults,
fully-grown adults with, like, PhDs.

423
00:22:55,040 --> 00:22:57,709
Magicians were almost like
the first neuroscientists

424
00:22:57,793 --> 00:22:58,960
and psychologists.

425
00:22:59,044 --> 00:23:02,005
Like, they were the ones
who first understood

426
00:23:02,089 --> 00:23:03,382
how people's minds work.

427
00:23:04,216 --> 00:23:07,677
They just, in real time, are testing
lots and lots of stuff on people.

428
00:23:09,137 --> 00:23:11,139
A magician understands something,

429
00:23:11,223 --> 00:23:14,017
some part of your mind
that we're not aware of.

430
00:23:14,101 --> 00:23:15,936
That's what makes the illusion work.

431
00:23:16,019 --> 00:23:20,607
Doctors, lawyers, people who know
how to build 747s or nuclear missiles,

432
00:23:20,690 --> 00:23:24,361
they don't know more about
how their own mind is vulnerable.

433
00:23:24,444 --> 00:23:26,113
That's a separate discipline.

434
00:23:26,571 --> 00:23:28,990
And it's a discipline
that applies to all human beings.

435
00:23:30,909 --> 00:23:34,079
From that perspective, you can have
a very different understanding

436
00:23:34,162 --> 00:23:35,580
of what technology is doing.

437
00:23:36,873 --> 00:23:39,584
When I was
at the Stanford Persuasive Technology Lab,

438
00:23:39,668 --> 00:23:41,044
this is what we learned.

439
00:23:41,628 --> 00:23:43,463
How could you use everything we know

440
00:23:43,547 --> 00:23:45,882
about the psychology
of what persuades people

441
00:23:45,966 --> 00:23:48,385
and build that into technology?

442
00:23:48,468 --> 00:23:50,887
Now, many of you in the audience
are geniuses already.

443
00:23:50,971 --> 00:23:55,851
I think that's true, but my goal is
to turn you into a behavior-change genius.

444
00:23:56,852 --> 00:24:01,148
There are many prominent Silicon Valley
figures who went through that class--

445
00:24:01,231 --> 00:24:05,485
key growth figures at Facebook and Uber
and... and other companies--

446
00:24:05,569 --> 00:24:09,197
and learned how to make technology
more persuasive,

447
00:24:09,614 --> 00:24:10,782
Tristan being one.

448
00:24:12,284 --> 00:24:14,619
[Tristan] Persuasive technology
is just sort of design

449
00:24:14,703 --> 00:24:16,580
intentionally applied to the extreme,

450
00:24:16,663 --> 00:24:18,874
where we really want to modify
someone's behavior.

451
00:24:18,957 --> 00:24:20,542
We want them to take this action.

452
00:24:20,625 --> 00:24:23,336
We want them to keep doing this
with their finger.

453
00:24:23,420 --> 00:24:26,256
You pull down and you refresh,
it's gonna be a new thing at the top.

454
00:24:26,339 --> 00:24:28,508
Pull down and refresh again, it's new.
Every single time.

455
00:24:28,592 --> 00:24:33,722
Which, in psychology, we call
a positive intermittent reinforcement.

456
00:24:33,805 --> 00:24:37,142
You don't know when you're gonna get it
or if you're gonna get something,

457
00:24:37,225 --> 00:24:40,061
which operates just like the slot machines
in Vegas.

458
00:24:40,145 --> 00:24:42,230
It's not enough
that you use the product consciously,

459
00:24:42,314 --> 00:24:44,024
I wanna dig down deeper
into the brain stem

460
00:24:44,107 --> 00:24:45,817
and implant, inside of you,

461
00:24:45,901 --> 00:24:47,652
an unconscious habit

462
00:24:47,736 --> 00:24:50,864
so that you are being programmed
at a deeper level.

463
00:24:50,947 --> 00:24:52,115
You don't even realize it.

464
00:24:52,532 --> 00:24:54,034
[teacher] A man, James Marshall...

465
00:24:54,117 --> 00:24:56,286
[Tristan] Every time you see it there
on the counter,

466
00:24:56,369 --> 00:24:59,789
and you just look at it,
and you know if you reach over,

467
00:24:59,873 --> 00:25:01,333
it just might have something for you,

468
00:25:01,416 --> 00:25:03,877
so you play that slot machine
to see what you got, right?

469
00:25:03,960 --> 00:25:06,046
That's not by accident.
That's a design technique.

470
00:25:06,129 --> 00:25:08,632
[teacher] He brings a golden nugget
to an officer

471
00:25:09,841 --> 00:25:11,301
in the army in San Francisco.

472
00:25:12,219 --> 00:25:15,388
Mind you, the... the population
of San Francisco was only...

473
00:25:15,472 --> 00:25:17,432
[Jeff]
Another example is photo tagging.

474
00:25:17,516 --> 00:25:19,643
-[teacher] The secret didn't last.
-[phone vibrates]

475
00:25:19,726 --> 00:25:21,186
[Jeff] So, if you get an e-mail

476
00:25:21,269 --> 00:25:24,064
that says your friend just tagged you
in a photo,

477
00:25:24,147 --> 00:25:28,568
of course you're going to click
on that e-mail and look at the photo.

478
00:25:29,152 --> 00:25:31,821
It's not something
you can just decide to ignore.

479
00:25:32,364 --> 00:25:34,157
This is deep-seated, like,

480
00:25:34,241 --> 00:25:36,326
human personality
that they're tapping into.

481
00:25:36,409 --> 00:25:38,078
What you should be asking yourself is:

482
00:25:38,161 --> 00:25:40,288
"Why doesn't that e-mail contain
the photo in it?

483
00:25:40,372 --> 00:25:42,457
It would be a lot easier
to see the photo."

484
00:25:42,541 --> 00:25:45,919
When Facebook found that feature,
they just dialed the hell out of that

485
00:25:46,002 --> 00:25:48,505
because they said, "This is gonna be
a great way to grow activity.

486
00:25:48,588 --> 00:25:51,091
Let's just get people tagging each other
in photos all day long."

487
00:25:51,174 --> 00:25:53,176
[upbeat techno music playing]

488
00:25:57,889 --> 00:25:58,890
[cell phone chimes]

489
00:25:59,349 --> 00:26:00,475
He commented.

490
00:26:00,559 --> 00:26:01,434
[Growth AI] Nice.

491
00:26:01,935 --> 00:26:04,688
Okay, Rebecca received it,
and she is responding.

492
00:26:04,771 --> 00:26:07,566
All right, let Ben know that she's typing
so we don't lose him.

493
00:26:07,649 --> 00:26:08,733
Activating ellipsis.

494
00:26:09,776 --> 00:26:11,945
[teacher continues speaking indistinctly]

495
00:26:13,697 --> 00:26:15,865
[tense instrumental music playing]

496
00:26:19,953 --> 00:26:21,329
Great, she posted.

497
00:26:21,454 --> 00:26:24,249
He's commenting on her comment
about his comment on her post.

498
00:26:25,041 --> 00:26:26,418
Hold on, he stopped typing.

499
00:26:26,751 --> 00:26:27,752
Let's autofill.

500
00:26:28,420 --> 00:26:30,005
Emojis. He loves emojis.

501
00:26:33,842 --> 00:26:34,676
He went with fire.

502
00:26:34,759 --> 00:26:36,803
[clicks tongue, sighs]
I was rootin' for eggplant.

503
00:26:38,597 --> 00:26:42,726
[Tristan] There's an entire discipline
and field called "growth hacking."

504
00:26:42,809 --> 00:26:47,147
Teams of engineers
whose job is to hack people's psychology

505
00:26:47,230 --> 00:26:48,565
so they can get more growth.

506
00:26:48,648 --> 00:26:50,984
They can get more user sign-ups,
more engagement.

507
00:26:51,067 --> 00:26:52,861
They can get you to invite more people.

508
00:26:52,944 --> 00:26:55,989
After all the testing, all the iterating,
all of this stuff,

509
00:26:56,072 --> 00:26:57,907
you know the single biggest thing
we realized?

510
00:26:57,991 --> 00:27:00,702
Get any individual to seven friends
in ten days.

511
00:27:01,953 --> 00:27:02,787
That was it.

512
00:27:02,871 --> 00:27:05,498
Chamath was the head of growth at Facebook
early on,

513
00:27:05,582 --> 00:27:08,251
and he's very well known
in the tech industry

514
00:27:08,335 --> 00:27:11,004
for pioneering a lot of the growth tactics

515
00:27:11,087 --> 00:27:14,758
that were used to grow Facebook
at incredible speed.

516
00:27:14,841 --> 00:27:18,553
And those growth tactics have then become
the standard playbook for Silicon Valley.

517
00:27:18,637 --> 00:27:21,222
They were used at Uber
and at a bunch of other companies.

518
00:27:21,306 --> 00:27:27,062
One of the things that he pioneered
was the use of scientific A/B testing

519
00:27:27,145 --> 00:27:28,480
of small feature changes.

520
00:27:29,022 --> 00:27:30,940
Companies like Google and Facebook

521
00:27:31,024 --> 00:27:34,569
would roll out
lots of little, tiny experiments

522
00:27:34,653 --> 00:27:36,821
that they were constantly doing on users.

523
00:27:36,905 --> 00:27:39,866
And over time,
by running these constant experiments,

524
00:27:39,949 --> 00:27:43,036
you... you develop the most optimal way

525
00:27:43,119 --> 00:27:45,288
to get users to do
what you want them to do.

526
00:27:45,372 --> 00:27:46,790
It's... It's manipulation.

527
00:27:47,332 --> 00:27:49,459
[interviewer]
Uh, you're making me feel like a lab rat.

528
00:27:49,834 --> 00:27:51,920
You <i>are </i>a lab rat. We're all lab rats.

529
00:27:52,545 --> 00:27:55,548
And it's not like we're lab rats
for developing a cure for cancer.

530
00:27:55,632 --> 00:27:58,134
It's not like they're trying
to benefit <i>us.</i>

531
00:27:58,218 --> 00:28:01,680
Right? We're just zombies,
and they want us to look at more ads

532
00:28:01,763 --> 00:28:03,181
so they can make more money.

533
00:28:03,556 --> 00:28:05,266
[Shoshana] Facebook conducted

534
00:28:05,350 --> 00:28:08,228
what they called
"massive-scale contagion experiments."

535
00:28:08,311 --> 00:28:09,145
Okay.

536
00:28:09,229 --> 00:28:13,066
[Shoshana] How do we use subliminal cues
on the Facebook pages

537
00:28:13,400 --> 00:28:17,654
to get more people to go vote
in the midterm elections?

538
00:28:17,987 --> 00:28:20,824
And they discovered
that they were able to do that.

539
00:28:20,907 --> 00:28:24,160
One thing they concluded
is that we now know

540
00:28:24,744 --> 00:28:28,915
we can affect real-world behavior
and emotions

541
00:28:28,998 --> 00:28:32,877
without ever triggering
the user's awareness.

542
00:28:33,378 --> 00:28:37,382
They are completely clueless.

543
00:28:38,049 --> 00:28:41,970
We're pointing these engines of AI
back at ourselves

544
00:28:42,053 --> 00:28:46,224
to reverse-engineer what elicits responses
from us.

545
00:28:47,100 --> 00:28:49,561
Almost like you're stimulating nerve cells
on a spider

546
00:28:49,644 --> 00:28:51,479
to see what causes its legs to respond.

547
00:28:51,938 --> 00:28:53,940
So, it really is
this kind of prison experiment

548
00:28:54,023 --> 00:28:56,735
where we're just, you know,
roping people into the matrix,

549
00:28:56,818 --> 00:29:00,572
and we're just harvesting all this money
and... and data from all their activity

550
00:29:00,655 --> 00:29:01,489
to profit from.

551
00:29:01,573 --> 00:29:03,450
And we're not even aware
that it's happening.

552
00:29:04,117 --> 00:29:07,912
So, we want to psychologically figure out
how to manipulate you as fast as possible

553
00:29:07,996 --> 00:29:10,081
and then give you back that dopamine hit.

554
00:29:10,165 --> 00:29:12,375
We did that brilliantly at Facebook.

555
00:29:12,625 --> 00:29:14,919
Instagram has done it.
WhatsApp has done it.

556
00:29:15,003 --> 00:29:17,380
You know, Snapchat has done it.
Twitter has done it.

557
00:29:17,464 --> 00:29:19,424
I mean, it's exactly the kind of thing

558
00:29:19,507 --> 00:29:22,427
that a... that a hacker like myself
would come up with

559
00:29:22,510 --> 00:29:27,015
because you're exploiting a vulnerability
in... in human psychology.

560
00:29:27,807 --> 00:29:29,726
[chuckles] And I just...
I think that we...

561
00:29:29,809 --> 00:29:33,438
you know, the inventors, creators...

562
00:29:33,980 --> 00:29:37,317
uh, you know, and it's me, it's Mark,
it's the...

563
00:29:37,400 --> 00:29:40,403
you know, Kevin Systrom at Instagram...
It's all of these people...

564
00:29:40,487 --> 00:29:46,451
um, understood this consciously,
and we did it anyway.

565
00:29:50,580 --> 00:29:53,750
No one got upset when bicycles showed up.

566
00:29:55,043 --> 00:29:58,004
Right? Like, if everyone's starting
to go around on bicycles,

567
00:29:58,087 --> 00:30:00,924
no one said,
"Oh, my God, we've just ruined society.

568
00:30:01,007 --> 00:30:03,051
[chuckles]
Like, bicycles are affecting people.

569
00:30:03,134 --> 00:30:05,303
They're pulling people
away from their kids.

570
00:30:05,386 --> 00:30:08,723
They're ruining the fabric of democracy.
People can't tell what's true."

571
00:30:08,807 --> 00:30:11,476
Like, we never said any of that stuff
about a bicycle.

572
00:30:12,769 --> 00:30:16,147
If something is a tool,
it genuinely is just sitting there,

573
00:30:16,731 --> 00:30:18,733
waiting patiently.

574
00:30:19,317 --> 00:30:22,821
If something is not a tool,
it's demanding things from you.

575
00:30:22,904 --> 00:30:26,533
It's seducing you. It's manipulating you.
It wants things from you.

576
00:30:26,950 --> 00:30:30,495
And we've moved away from having
a tools-based technology environment

577
00:30:31,037 --> 00:30:34,499
to an addiction- and manipulation-based
technology environment.

578
00:30:34,582 --> 00:30:35,708
That's what's changed.

579
00:30:35,792 --> 00:30:39,420
Social media isn't a tool
that's just waiting to be used.

580
00:30:39,504 --> 00:30:43,466
It has its own goals,
and it has its own means of pursuing them

581
00:30:43,550 --> 00:30:45,677
by using your psychology against you.

582
00:30:45,760 --> 00:30:47,762
[ominous instrumental music playing]

583
00:30:57,564 --> 00:31:00,567
[Tim] Rewind a few years ago,
I was the...

584
00:31:00,650 --> 00:31:02,318
I was the president of Pinterest.

585
00:31:03,152 --> 00:31:05,113
I was coming home,

586
00:31:05,196 --> 00:31:08,366
and I couldn't get off my phone
once I got home,

587
00:31:08,449 --> 00:31:12,161
despite having two young kids
who needed my love and attention.

588
00:31:12,245 --> 00:31:15,748
I was in the pantry, you know,
typing away on an e-mail

589
00:31:15,832 --> 00:31:17,542
or sometimes looking at Pinterest.

590
00:31:18,001 --> 00:31:19,627
I thought, "God, this is classic irony.

591
00:31:19,711 --> 00:31:22,046
I am going to work during the day

592
00:31:22,130 --> 00:31:26,426
and building something
that then I am falling prey to."

593
00:31:26,509 --> 00:31:30,096
And I couldn't... I mean, some
of those moments, I couldn't help myself.

594
00:31:30,179 --> 00:31:31,848
-[notification chimes]
-[woman gasps]

595
00:31:32,307 --> 00:31:36,102
The one
that I'm... I'm most prone to is Twitter.

596
00:31:36,185 --> 00:31:38,021
Uh, used to be Reddit.

597
00:31:38,104 --> 00:31:42,859
I actually had to write myself software
to break my addiction to reading Reddit.

598
00:31:42,942 --> 00:31:44,903
-[notifications chime]
-[slot machines whir]

599
00:31:45,403 --> 00:31:47,780
I'm probably most addicted to my e-mail.

600
00:31:47,864 --> 00:31:49,866
I mean, really. I mean, I... I feel it.

601
00:31:49,949 --> 00:31:51,409
-[notifications chime]
-[woman gasps]

602
00:31:51,492 --> 00:31:52,493
[electricity crackles]

603
00:31:52,577 --> 00:31:54,954
Well, I mean, it's sort-- it's interesting

604
00:31:55,038 --> 00:31:58,166
that knowing what was going on
behind the curtain,

605
00:31:58,249 --> 00:32:01,628
I still wasn't able to control my usage.

606
00:32:01,711 --> 00:32:03,046
So, that's a little scary.

607
00:32:03,630 --> 00:32:07,050
Even knowing how these tricks work,
I'm still susceptible to them.

608
00:32:07,133 --> 00:32:09,886
I'll still pick up the phone,
and 20 minutes will disappear.

609
00:32:09,969 --> 00:32:11,387
[notifications chime]

610
00:32:11,471 --> 00:32:12,722
-[fluid rushes]
-[woman gasps]

611
00:32:12,805 --> 00:32:15,725
Do you check your smartphone
before you pee in the morning

612
00:32:15,808 --> 00:32:17,477
or while you're peeing in the morning?

613
00:32:17,560 --> 00:32:19,479
'Cause those are the only two choices.

614
00:32:19,562 --> 00:32:23,274
I tried through willpower,
just pure willpower...

615
00:32:23,358 --> 00:32:26,903
"I'll put down my phone, I'll leave
my phone in the car when I get home."

616
00:32:26,986 --> 00:32:30,573
I think I told myself a thousand times,
a thousand different days,

617
00:32:30,657 --> 00:32:32,617
"I am not gonna bring my phone
 to the bedroom,"

618
00:32:32,700 --> 00:32:34,535
and then 9:00 p.m. rolls around.

619
00:32:34,619 --> 00:32:37,121
"Well, I wanna bring my phone
in the bedroom."

620
00:32:37,205 --> 00:32:39,290
[takes a deep breath]
And so, that was sort of...

621
00:32:39,374 --> 00:32:41,125
Willpower was kind of attempt one,

622
00:32:41,209 --> 00:32:44,295
and then attempt two was,
you know, brute force.

623
00:32:44,379 --> 00:32:48,091
[announcer] Introducing the Kitchen Safe.
The Kitchen Safe is a revolutionary,

624
00:32:48,174 --> 00:32:51,678
new, time-locking container
that helps you fight temptation.

625
00:32:51,761 --> 00:32:56,724
<i>All David has to do is place</i>
<i>those temptations in the Kitchen Safe.</i>

626
00:32:57,392 --> 00:33:00,395
<i>Next, he rotates the dial</i>
<i>to set the timer.</i>

627
00:33:01,479 --> 00:33:04,232
<i>And, finally, he presses the dial</i>
<i>to activate the lock.</i>

628
00:33:04,315 --> 00:33:05,525
<i>The Kitchen Safe is great...</i>

629
00:33:05,608 --> 00:33:06,776
We have that, don't we?

630
00:33:06,859 --> 00:33:08,653
<i>...video games, credit cards,</i>
<i>and cell phones.</i>

631
00:33:08,736 --> 00:33:09,654
Yeah, we do.

632
00:33:09,737 --> 00:33:12,407
[announcer] <i>Once the Kitchen Safe</i>
<i>is locked, it cannot be opened</i>

633
00:33:12,490 --> 00:33:13,866
<i>until the timer reaches zero.</i>

634
00:33:13,950 --> 00:33:15,618
[Anna] So, here's the thing.

635
00:33:15,702 --> 00:33:17,537
Social media is a drug.

636
00:33:17,620 --> 00:33:20,873
I mean,
we have a basic biological imperative

637
00:33:20,957 --> 00:33:23,084
to connect with other people.

638
00:33:23,167 --> 00:33:28,214
That directly affects the release
of dopamine in the reward pathway.

639
00:33:28,297 --> 00:33:32,552
Millions of years of evolution, um,
are behind that system

640
00:33:32,635 --> 00:33:35,596
to get us to come together
and live in communities,

641
00:33:35,680 --> 00:33:38,016
to find mates, to propagate our species.

642
00:33:38,099 --> 00:33:41,853
So, there's no doubt
that a vehicle like social media,

643
00:33:41,936 --> 00:33:45,690
which optimizes this connection
between people,

644
00:33:45,773 --> 00:33:48,568
is going to have the potential
for addiction.

645
00:33:52,071 --> 00:33:54,115
-Mmm! [laughs]
-Dad, stop!

646
00:33:55,450 --> 00:33:58,453
I have, like, 1,000 more snips
to send before dinner.

647
00:33:58,536 --> 00:34:00,788
-[dad] Snips?
-I don't know what a snip is.

648
00:34:00,872 --> 00:34:03,207
-Mm, that smells good, baby.
-All right. Thank you.

649
00:34:03,291 --> 00:34:05,877
I was, um, thinking we could use
all five senses

650
00:34:05,960 --> 00:34:07,712
to enjoy our dinner tonight.

651
00:34:07,795 --> 00:34:11,382
So, I decided that we're not gonna have
any cell phones at the table tonight.

652
00:34:11,466 --> 00:34:13,301
So, turn 'em in.

653
00:34:13,801 --> 00:34:14,802
-Really?
-[mom] Yep.

654
00:34:15,928 --> 00:34:18,056
-All right.
-Thank you. Ben?

655
00:34:18,139 --> 00:34:20,433
-Okay.
-Mom, the phone pirate. [scoffs]

656
00:34:21,100 --> 00:34:21,934
-Got it.
-Mom!

657
00:34:22,518 --> 00:34:26,147
So, they will be safe in here
until after dinner...

658
00:34:27,273 --> 00:34:30,650
-and everyone can just chill out.
-[safe whirs]

659
00:34:30,735 --> 00:34:31,569
Okay?

660
00:34:40,828 --> 00:34:41,704
[Cass sighs]

661
00:34:45,708 --> 00:34:47,043
[notification chimes]

662
00:34:47,418 --> 00:34:49,253
-Can I just see who it is?
-No.

663
00:34:54,759 --> 00:34:56,969
Just gonna go get another fork.

664
00:34:58,304 --> 00:34:59,263
Thank you.

665
00:35:04,727 --> 00:35:06,771
Honey, you can't open that.

666
00:35:06,854 --> 00:35:09,315
I locked it for an hour,
so just leave it alone.

667
00:35:11,192 --> 00:35:13,361
So, what should we talk about?

668
00:35:13,444 --> 00:35:14,695
Well, we could talk

669
00:35:14,779 --> 00:35:17,615
about the, uh, Extreme Center wackos
I drove by today.

670
00:35:17,698 --> 00:35:18,825
-[mom] Please, Frank.
-What?

671
00:35:18,908 --> 00:35:20,785
[mom] I don't wanna talk about politics.

672
00:35:20,868 --> 00:35:23,538
-What's wrong with the Extreme Center?
-See? He doesn't even get it.

673
00:35:23,621 --> 00:35:24,622
It depends on who you ask.

674
00:35:24,705 --> 00:35:26,624
It's like asking,
"What's wrong with propaganda?"

675
00:35:26,707 --> 00:35:28,376
-[safe smashes]
-[mom and Frank scream]

676
00:35:28,709 --> 00:35:29,710
[Frank] Isla!

677
00:35:32,797 --> 00:35:33,756
Oh, my God.

678
00:35:36,425 --> 00:35:38,553
-[sighs] Do you want me to...
-[mom] Yeah.

679
00:35:41,973 --> 00:35:43,933
[Anna] I... I'm worried about my kids.

680
00:35:44,016 --> 00:35:46,686
And if you have kids,
I'm worried about your kids.

681
00:35:46,769 --> 00:35:50,189
Armed with all the knowledge that I have
and all of the experience,

682
00:35:50,273 --> 00:35:52,108
I am fighting my kids about the time

683
00:35:52,191 --> 00:35:54,443
that they spend on phones
and on the computer.

684
00:35:54,527 --> 00:35:58,197
I will say to my son, "How many hours do
you think you're spending on your phone?"

685
00:35:58,281 --> 00:36:01,075
He'll be like, "It's, like, half an hour.
It's half an hour, tops."

686
00:36:01,159 --> 00:36:04,829
I'd say upwards hour, hour and a half.

687
00:36:04,912 --> 00:36:06,789
I looked at his screen report
a couple weeks ago.

688
00:36:06,873 --> 00:36:08,708
-Three hours and 45 minutes.
-[James] That...

689
00:36:11,377 --> 00:36:13,588
I don't think that's...
No. Per day, on average?

690
00:36:13,671 --> 00:36:15,506
-Yeah.
-Should I go get it right now?

691
00:36:15,590 --> 00:36:19,177
There's not a day that goes by
that I don't remind my kids

692
00:36:19,260 --> 00:36:21,762
about the pleasure-pain balance,

693
00:36:21,846 --> 00:36:24,390
about dopamine deficit states,

694
00:36:24,473 --> 00:36:26,267
about the risk of addiction.

695
00:36:26,350 --> 00:36:27,310
[Mary] Moment of truth.

696
00:36:27,935 --> 00:36:29,687
Two hours, 50 minutes per day.

697
00:36:29,770 --> 00:36:31,772
-Let's see.
-Actually, I've been using a lot today.

698
00:36:31,856 --> 00:36:33,357
-Last seven days.
-That's probably why.

699
00:36:33,441 --> 00:36:37,361
Instagram, six hours, 13 minutes.
Okay, so my Instagram's worse.

700
00:36:39,572 --> 00:36:41,991
My screen's completely shattered.

701
00:36:42,200 --> 00:36:43,201
Thanks, Cass.

702
00:36:44,410 --> 00:36:45,995
What do you mean, "Thanks, Cass"?

703
00:36:46,078 --> 00:36:49,040
You keep freaking Mom out about our phones
when it's not really a problem.

704
00:36:49,373 --> 00:36:51,167
We don't need our phones to eat dinner!

705
00:36:51,250 --> 00:36:53,878
I get what you're saying.
It's just not that big a deal. It's not.

706
00:36:56,047 --> 00:36:58,382
If it's not that big a deal,
don't use it for a week.

707
00:36:59,634 --> 00:37:00,593
[Ben sighs]

708
00:37:01,135 --> 00:37:06,349
Yeah. Yeah, actually, if you can put
that thing away for, like, a whole week...

709
00:37:07,725 --> 00:37:09,518
I will buy you a new screen.

710
00:37:10,978 --> 00:37:12,897
-Like, starting now?
-[mom] Starting now.

711
00:37:15,149 --> 00:37:16,859
-Okay. You got a deal.
-[mom] Okay.

712
00:37:16,943 --> 00:37:19,111
Okay, you gotta leave it here, though,
buddy.

713
00:37:19,862 --> 00:37:21,364
All right, I'm plugging it in.

714
00:37:22,531 --> 00:37:25,076
Let the record show... I'm backing away.

715
00:37:25,159 --> 00:37:25,993
Okay.

716
00:37:27,787 --> 00:37:29,413
-You're on the clock.
-[Ben] One week.

717
00:37:29,497 --> 00:37:30,331
Oh, my...

718
00:37:31,457 --> 00:37:32,416
Think he can do it?

719
00:37:33,000 --> 00:37:34,252
I don't know. We'll see.

720
00:37:35,002 --> 00:37:36,128
Just eat, okay?

721
00:37:44,220 --> 00:37:45,263
Good family dinner!

722
00:37:47,682 --> 00:37:49,809
[Tristan] These technology products
were not designed

723
00:37:49,892 --> 00:37:53,896
by child psychologists who are trying
to protect and nurture children.

724
00:37:53,980 --> 00:37:56,148
They were just designing
to make these algorithms

725
00:37:56,232 --> 00:37:58,734
that were really good at recommending
the next video to you

726
00:37:58,818 --> 00:38:02,321
or really good at getting you
to take a photo with a filter on it.

727
00:38:15,710 --> 00:38:16,669
[cell phone chimes]

728
00:38:16,752 --> 00:38:18,879
[Tristan] It's not just
that it's controlling

729
00:38:18,963 --> 00:38:20,548
where they spend their attention.

730
00:38:21,173 --> 00:38:26,304
Especially social media starts to dig
deeper and deeper down into the brain stem

731
00:38:26,387 --> 00:38:29,765
and take over kids' sense of self-worth
and identity.

732
00:38:41,736 --> 00:38:42,903
[notifications chiming]

733
00:38:52,371 --> 00:38:56,208
[Tristan] We evolved to care about
whether other people in our tribe...

734
00:38:56,751 --> 00:38:59,128
think well of us or not
'cause it matters.

735
00:38:59,837 --> 00:39:04,550
But were we evolved to be aware
of what 10,000 people think of us?

736
00:39:04,633 --> 00:39:08,763
We were not evolved
to have social approval being dosed to us

737
00:39:08,846 --> 00:39:10,348
every five minutes.

738
00:39:10,431 --> 00:39:13,142
That was not at all what we were built
to experience.

739
00:39:15,394 --> 00:39:19,982
[Chamath] We curate our lives
around this perceived sense of perfection

740
00:39:20,733 --> 00:39:23,527
because we get rewarded
in these short-term signals--

741
00:39:23,611 --> 00:39:25,154
hearts, likes, thumbs-up--

742
00:39:25,237 --> 00:39:28,407
and we conflate that with value,
and we conflate it with truth.

743
00:39:29,825 --> 00:39:33,120
And instead, what it really is
is fake, brittle popularity...

744
00:39:33,913 --> 00:39:37,458
that's short-term and that leaves you
even more, and admit it,

745
00:39:37,541 --> 00:39:39,919
vacant and empty before you did it.

746
00:39:41,295 --> 00:39:43,381
Because then it forces you
into this vicious cycle

747
00:39:43,464 --> 00:39:47,176
where you're like, "What's the next thing
I need to do now? 'Cause I need it back."

748
00:39:48,260 --> 00:39:50,846
Think about that compounded
by two billion people,

749
00:39:50,930 --> 00:39:54,767
and then think about how people react then
to the perceptions of others.

750
00:39:54,850 --> 00:39:56,435
It's just a... It's really bad.

751
00:39:56,977 --> 00:39:58,229
It's really, really bad.

752
00:40:00,856 --> 00:40:03,484
[Jonathan] There has been
a gigantic increase

753
00:40:03,567 --> 00:40:06,529
in depression and anxiety
for American teenagers

754
00:40:06,612 --> 00:40:10,950
which began right around...
between 2011 and 2013.

755
00:40:11,033 --> 00:40:15,371
The number of teenage girls out of 100,000
in this country

756
00:40:15,454 --> 00:40:17,123
who were admitted to a hospital every year

757
00:40:17,206 --> 00:40:19,917
because they cut themselves
or otherwise harmed themselves,

758
00:40:20,000 --> 00:40:23,921
that number was pretty stable
until around 2010, 2011,

759
00:40:24,004 --> 00:40:25,756
and then it begins going way up.

760
00:40:28,759 --> 00:40:32,513
It's up 62 percent for older teen girls.

761
00:40:33,848 --> 00:40:38,310
It's up 189 percent for the preteen girls.
That's nearly triple.

762
00:40:40,312 --> 00:40:43,524
Even more horrifying,
we see the same pattern with suicide.

763
00:40:44,775 --> 00:40:47,570
The older teen girls, 15 to 19 years old,

764
00:40:47,653 --> 00:40:49,196
they're up 70 percent,

765
00:40:49,280 --> 00:40:51,699
compared to the first decade
of this century.

766
00:40:52,158 --> 00:40:55,077
The preteen girls,
who have very low rates to begin with,

767
00:40:55,161 --> 00:40:57,663
they are up 151 percent.

768
00:40:58,831 --> 00:41:01,709
And that pattern points to social media.

769
00:41:04,044 --> 00:41:07,214
Gen Z, the kids born after 1996 or so,

770
00:41:07,298 --> 00:41:10,342
those kids are the first generation
in history

771
00:41:10,426 --> 00:41:12,636
that got on social media in middle school.

772
00:41:12,720 --> 00:41:14,722
[thunder rumbling in distance]

773
00:41:15,890 --> 00:41:17,600
[Jonathan] How do they spend their time?

774
00:41:19,727 --> 00:41:22,730
They come home from school,
and they're on their devices.

775
00:41:24,315 --> 00:41:29,195
A whole generation is more anxious,
more fragile, more depressed.

776
00:41:29,320 --> 00:41:30,529
-[thunder rumbles]
-[Isla gasps]

777
00:41:30,613 --> 00:41:33,282
[Jonathan] They're much less comfortable
taking risks.

778
00:41:34,325 --> 00:41:37,536
The rates at which they get
driver's licenses have been dropping.

779
00:41:38,954 --> 00:41:41,081
The number
who have ever gone out on a date

780
00:41:41,165 --> 00:41:44,251
or had any kind of romantic interaction
is dropping rapidly.

781
00:41:47,505 --> 00:41:49,715
This is a real change in a generation.

782
00:41:53,177 --> 00:41:57,306
And remember, for every one of these,
for every hospital admission,

783
00:41:57,389 --> 00:42:00,267
there's a family that is traumatized
and horrified.

784
00:42:00,351 --> 00:42:02,353
"My God, what is happening to our kids?"

785
00:42:08,734 --> 00:42:09,693
[Isla sighs]

786
00:42:19,411 --> 00:42:21,413
[Tim] It's plain as day to me.

787
00:42:22,873 --> 00:42:28,128
These services are killing people...
and causing people to kill themselves.

788
00:42:29,088 --> 00:42:33,300
I don't know any parent who says, "Yeah,
I really want my kids to be growing up

789
00:42:33,384 --> 00:42:36,887
feeling manipulated by tech designers, uh,

790
00:42:36,971 --> 00:42:39,723
manipulating their attention,
making it impossible to do their homework,

791
00:42:39,807 --> 00:42:42,560
making them compare themselves
to unrealistic standards of beauty."

792
00:42:42,643 --> 00:42:44,687
Like, no one wants that. [chuckles]

793
00:42:45,104 --> 00:42:46,355
No one does.

794
00:42:46,438 --> 00:42:48,482
We... We used to have these protections.

795
00:42:48,566 --> 00:42:50,943
When children watched
Saturday morning cartoons,

796
00:42:51,026 --> 00:42:52,778
we cared about protecting children.

797
00:42:52,861 --> 00:42:56,574
We would say, "You can't advertise
to these age children in these ways."

798
00:42:57,366 --> 00:42:58,784
But then you take YouTube for Kids,

799
00:42:58,867 --> 00:43:02,454
and it gobbles up that entire portion
of the attention economy,

800
00:43:02,538 --> 00:43:04,915
and now all kids are exposed
to YouTube for Kids.

801
00:43:04,999 --> 00:43:07,710
And all those protections
and all those regulations are gone.

802
00:43:08,210 --> 00:43:10,212
[tense instrumental music playing]

803
00:43:18,304 --> 00:43:22,141
[Tristan] We're training and conditioning
a whole new generation of people...

804
00:43:23,434 --> 00:43:29,148
that when we are uncomfortable or lonely
or uncertain or afraid,

805
00:43:29,231 --> 00:43:31,775
we have a digital pacifier for ourselves

806
00:43:32,234 --> 00:43:36,488
that is kind of atrophying our own ability
to deal with that.

807
00:43:53,881 --> 00:43:55,674
[Tristan] Photoshop didn't have
1,000 engineers

808
00:43:55,758 --> 00:43:58,969
on the other side of the screen,
using notifications, using your friends,

809
00:43:59,053 --> 00:44:02,431
using AI to predict what's gonna
perfectly addict you, or hook you,

810
00:44:02,514 --> 00:44:04,516
or manipulate you, or allow advertisers

811
00:44:04,600 --> 00:44:08,437
to test 60,000 variations
of text or colors to figure out

812
00:44:08,520 --> 00:44:11,065
what's the perfect manipulation
of your mind.

813
00:44:11,148 --> 00:44:14,985
This is a totally new species
of power and influence.

814
00:44:16,070 --> 00:44:19,156
I... I would say, again, the methods used

815
00:44:19,239 --> 00:44:22,785
to play on people's ability
to be addicted or to be influenced

816
00:44:22,868 --> 00:44:25,204
may be different this time,
and they probably are different.

817
00:44:25,287 --> 00:44:28,749
They were different when newspapers
came in and the printing press came in,

818
00:44:28,832 --> 00:44:31,835
and they were different
when television came in,

819
00:44:31,919 --> 00:44:34,004
and you had three major networks and...

820
00:44:34,463 --> 00:44:36,423
-At the time.
-At the time. That's what I'm saying.

821
00:44:36,507 --> 00:44:38,384
But I'm saying the idea
that there's a new level

822
00:44:38,467 --> 00:44:42,054
and that new level has happened
so many times before.

823
00:44:42,137 --> 00:44:45,099
I mean, this is just the latest new level
that we've seen.

824
00:44:45,182 --> 00:44:48,727
There's this narrative that, you know,
"We'll just adapt to it.

825
00:44:48,811 --> 00:44:51,188
We'll learn how to live
with these devices,

826
00:44:51,271 --> 00:44:53,732
just like we've learned how to live
with everything else."

827
00:44:53,816 --> 00:44:56,694
And what this misses
is there's something distinctly new here.

828
00:44:57,486 --> 00:45:00,155
Perhaps the most dangerous piece
of all this is the fact

829
00:45:00,239 --> 00:45:04,410
that it's driven by technology
that's advancing exponentially.

830
00:45:05,869 --> 00:45:09,081
Roughly, if you say from, like,
the 1960s to today,

831
00:45:09,873 --> 00:45:12,960
processing power has gone up
about a trillion times.

832
00:45:13,794 --> 00:45:18,340
Nothing else that we have has improved
at anything near that rate.

833
00:45:18,424 --> 00:45:22,177
Like, cars are, you know,
roughly twice as fast.

834
00:45:22,261 --> 00:45:25,013
And almost everything else is negligible.

835
00:45:25,347 --> 00:45:27,182
And perhaps most importantly,

836
00:45:27,266 --> 00:45:31,353
our human-- our physiology,
our brains have evolved not at all.

837
00:45:37,401 --> 00:45:41,488
[Tristan] Human beings, at a mind and body
and sort of physical level,

838
00:45:41,947 --> 00:45:43,866
are not gonna fundamentally change.

839
00:45:44,825 --> 00:45:45,868
[indistinct chatter]

840
00:45:47,035 --> 00:45:48,954
[chuckling] I know, but they...

841
00:45:49,037 --> 00:45:51,623
[continues speaking indistinctly]

842
00:45:53,584 --> 00:45:54,752
[camera shutter clicks]

843
00:45:56,837 --> 00:46:00,924
[Tristan] We can do genetic engineering
and develop new kinds of human beings,

844
00:46:01,008 --> 00:46:05,220
but realistically speaking,
you're living inside of hardware, a brain,

845
00:46:05,304 --> 00:46:07,222
that was, like, millions of years old,

846
00:46:07,306 --> 00:46:10,559
and then there's this screen, and then
on the opposite side of the screen,

847
00:46:10,642 --> 00:46:13,562
there's these thousands of engineers
and supercomputers

848
00:46:13,645 --> 00:46:16,106
that have goals that are different
than your goals,

849
00:46:16,190 --> 00:46:19,693
and so, who's gonna win in that game?
Who's gonna win?

850
00:46:25,699 --> 00:46:26,617
How are we losing?

851
00:46:27,159 --> 00:46:29,828
-I don't know.
-Where is he? This is not normal.

852
00:46:29,912 --> 00:46:32,080
Did I overwhelm him
with friends and family content?

853
00:46:32,164 --> 00:46:34,082
-Probably.
-Well, maybe it was all the ads.

854
00:46:34,166 --> 00:46:37,795
No. Something's very wrong.
Let's switch to resurrection mode.

855
00:46:39,713 --> 00:46:44,051
[Tristan] When you think of AI,
you know, an AI's gonna ruin the world,

856
00:46:44,134 --> 00:46:47,221
and you see, like, a Terminator,
and you see Arnold Schwarzenegger.

857
00:46:47,638 --> 00:46:48,680
I'll be back.

858
00:46:48,764 --> 00:46:50,933
[Tristan] You see drones,
and you think, like,

859
00:46:51,016 --> 00:46:52,684
"Oh, we're gonna kill people with AI."

860
00:46:53,644 --> 00:46:59,817
And what people miss is that AI
already runs today's world right now.

861
00:46:59,900 --> 00:47:03,237
Even talking about "an AI"
is just a metaphor.

862
00:47:03,320 --> 00:47:09,451
At these companies like... like Google,
there's just massive, massive rooms,

863
00:47:10,327 --> 00:47:13,121
some of them underground,
some of them underwater,

864
00:47:13,205 --> 00:47:14,498
of just computers.

865
00:47:14,581 --> 00:47:17,835
Tons and tons of computers,
as far as the eye can see.

866
00:47:18,460 --> 00:47:20,504
They're deeply interconnected
with each other

867
00:47:20,587 --> 00:47:22,923
and running
extremely complicated programs,

868
00:47:23,006 --> 00:47:26,009
sending information back and forth
between each other all the time.

869
00:47:26,802 --> 00:47:28,595
And they'll be running
many different programs,

870
00:47:28,679 --> 00:47:31,014
many different products
on those same machines.

871
00:47:31,348 --> 00:47:33,684
Some of those things could be described
as simple algorithms,

872
00:47:33,767 --> 00:47:35,227
some could be described as algorithms

873
00:47:35,310 --> 00:47:37,521
that are so complicated,
you would call them intelligence.

874
00:47:39,022 --> 00:47:39,982
[crew member sighs]

875
00:47:40,065 --> 00:47:42,568
[Cathy]
I like to say that algorithms are opinions

876
00:47:42,651 --> 00:47:43,777
embedded in code...

877
00:47:45,070 --> 00:47:47,656
and that algorithms are not objective.

878
00:47:48,365 --> 00:47:51,577
Algorithms are optimized
to some definition of success.

879
00:47:52,244 --> 00:47:53,370
So, if you can imagine,

880
00:47:53,453 --> 00:47:57,124
if a... if a commercial enterprise builds
an algorithm

881
00:47:57,207 --> 00:47:59,293
to their definition of success,

882
00:47:59,835 --> 00:48:01,211
it's a commercial interest.

883
00:48:01,587 --> 00:48:02,671
It's usually profit.

884
00:48:03,130 --> 00:48:07,384
You are giving the computer
the goal state, "I want this outcome,"

885
00:48:07,467 --> 00:48:10,262
and then the computer itself is learning
how to do it.

886
00:48:10,345 --> 00:48:12,598
That's where the term "machine learning"
comes from.

887
00:48:12,681 --> 00:48:14,850
And so, every day, it gets slightly better

888
00:48:14,933 --> 00:48:16,977
at picking the right posts
in the right order

889
00:48:17,060 --> 00:48:19,438
so that you spend longer and longer
in that product.

890
00:48:19,521 --> 00:48:22,232
And no one really understands
what they're doing

891
00:48:22,316 --> 00:48:23,901
in order to achieve that goal.

892
00:48:23,984 --> 00:48:28,238
The algorithm has a mind of its own,
so even though a person writes it,

893
00:48:28,906 --> 00:48:30,657
it's written in a way

894
00:48:30,741 --> 00:48:35,037
that you kind of build the machine,
and then the machine changes itself.

895
00:48:35,120 --> 00:48:37,873
There's only a handful of people
at these companies,

896
00:48:37,956 --> 00:48:40,000
at Facebook and Twitter
and other companies...

897
00:48:40,083 --> 00:48:43,795
There's only a few people who understand
how those systems work,

898
00:48:43,879 --> 00:48:46,715
and even they don't necessarily
fully understand

899
00:48:46,798 --> 00:48:49,551
what's gonna happen
with a particular piece of content.

900
00:48:49,968 --> 00:48:55,474
So, as humans, we've almost lost control
over these systems.

901
00:48:55,891 --> 00:48:59,603
Because they're controlling, you know,
the information that we see,

902
00:48:59,686 --> 00:49:02,189
they're controlling us more
than we're controlling them.

903
00:49:02,522 --> 00:49:04,733
-[console whirs]
-[Growth AI] Cross-referencing him

904
00:49:04,816 --> 00:49:07,319
against comparables
in his geographic zone.

905
00:49:07,402 --> 00:49:09,571
His psychometric doppelgangers.

906
00:49:09,655 --> 00:49:13,700
There are 13,694 people
behaving just like him in his region.

907
00:49:13,784 --> 00:49:16,370
-What's trending with them?
-We need something actually good

908
00:49:16,453 --> 00:49:17,704
for a proper resurrection,

909
00:49:17,788 --> 00:49:19,957
given that the typical stuff
isn't working.

910
00:49:20,040 --> 00:49:21,875
Not even that cute girl from school.

911
00:49:22,334 --> 00:49:25,253
My analysis shows that going political
with Extreme Center content

912
00:49:25,337 --> 00:49:28,256
has a 62.3 percent chance
of long-term engagement.

913
00:49:28,340 --> 00:49:29,299
That's not bad.

914
00:49:29,383 --> 00:49:32,010
[sighs] It's not good enough to lead with.

915
00:49:32,302 --> 00:49:35,305
Okay, okay, so we've tried notifying him
about tagged photos,

916
00:49:35,389 --> 00:49:39,017
invitations, current events,
even a direct message from Rebecca.

917
00:49:39,101 --> 00:49:42,813
But what about User 01265923010?

918
00:49:42,896 --> 00:49:44,648
Yeah, Ben loved all of her posts.

919
00:49:44,731 --> 00:49:47,776
For months and, like,
literally all of them, and then nothing.

920
00:49:47,859 --> 00:49:50,445
I calculate a 92.3 percent chance
of resurrection

921
00:49:50,529 --> 00:49:52,030
with a notification about Ana.

922
00:49:56,535 --> 00:49:57,494
And her new friend.

923
00:49:59,621 --> 00:50:01,623
[eerie instrumental music playing]

924
00:50:10,590 --> 00:50:11,675
[cell phone vibrates]

925
00:50:25,689 --> 00:50:27,441
[Ben] Oh, you gotta be kiddin' me.

926
00:50:32,404 --> 00:50:33,613
Uh... [sighs]

927
00:50:35,657 --> 00:50:36,616
Okay.

928
00:50:38,869 --> 00:50:40,996
-What?
-[fanfare plays, fireworks pop]

929
00:50:41,413 --> 00:50:42,789
[claps] Bam! We're back!

930
00:50:42,873 --> 00:50:44,374
Let's get back to making money, boys.

931
00:50:44,458 --> 00:50:46,334
Yes, and connecting Ben
with the entire world.

932
00:50:46,418 --> 00:50:49,087
I'm giving him access
to all the information he might like.

933
00:50:49,755 --> 00:50:53,717
Hey, do you guys ever wonder if, you know,
like, the feed is good for Ben?

934
00:50:57,095 --> 00:50:58,430
-No.
-No. [chuckles slightly]

935
00:51:00,307 --> 00:51:03,268
-[chuckles softly]
-["I Put a Spell on You" playing]

936
00:51:17,491 --> 00:51:19,076
♪<i> I put a spell on you </i>♪

937
00:51:25,040 --> 00:51:26,374
♪<i> 'Cause you're mine </i>♪

938
00:51:28,627 --> 00:51:32,089
[vocalizing] <i>♪ Ah! ♪</i>

939
00:51:34,508 --> 00:51:36,593
♪<i> You better stop the things you do</i> ♪

940
00:51:41,181 --> 00:51:42,265
♪<i> I ain't lyin' </i>♪

941
00:51:44,976 --> 00:51:46,686
♪<i> No, I ain't lyin' </i>♪

942
00:51:49,981 --> 00:51:51,817
♪<i> You know I can't stand it </i>♪

943
00:51:53,026 --> 00:51:54,611
♪<i> You're runnin' around </i>♪

944
00:51:55,612 --> 00:51:57,239
♪<i> You know better, Daddy </i>♪

945
00:51:58,782 --> 00:52:02,077
♪<i> I can't stand it</i>
<i>'Cause you put me down</i> <i>♪</i>

946
00:52:03,286 --> 00:52:04,121
♪<i> Yeah, yeah </i>♪

947
00:52:06,456 --> 00:52:08,375
♪<i> I put a spell on you </i>♪

948
00:52:12,379 --> 00:52:14,840
♪<i> Because you're mine </i>♪

949
00:52:18,718 --> 00:52:19,845
<i>♪ You're mine ♪</i>

950
00:52:20,929 --> 00:52:24,349
[Roger] So, imagine you're on Facebook...

951
00:52:24,766 --> 00:52:29,312
and you're effectively playing
against this artificial intelligence

952
00:52:29,396 --> 00:52:31,314
that knows everything about you,

953
00:52:31,398 --> 00:52:34,568
can anticipate your next move,
and you know literally nothing about it,

954
00:52:34,651 --> 00:52:37,404
except that there are cat videos
and birthdays on it.

955
00:52:37,821 --> 00:52:39,656
That's not a fair fight.

956
00:52:41,575 --> 00:52:43,869
Ben and Jerry, it's time to go, bud!

957
00:52:48,039 --> 00:52:48,874
[sighs]

958
00:52:51,126 --> 00:52:51,960
Ben?

959
00:53:01,011 --> 00:53:02,137
[knocks lightly on door]

960
00:53:02,679 --> 00:53:04,723
-[Cass] Ben.
-[Ben] Mm.

961
00:53:05,182 --> 00:53:06,057
Come on.

962
00:53:07,225 --> 00:53:08,351
School time. [claps]

963
00:53:08,435 --> 00:53:09,269
Let's go.

964
00:53:12,189 --> 00:53:13,148
[Ben sighs]

965
00:53:25,118 --> 00:53:27,120
[excited chatter]

966
00:53:31,374 --> 00:53:33,627
-[tech] How you doing today?
-Oh, I'm... I'm nervous.

967
00:53:33,710 --> 00:53:35,003
-Are ya?
-Yeah. [chuckles]

968
00:53:37,380 --> 00:53:39,132
[Tristan]
We were all looking for the moment

969
00:53:39,216 --> 00:53:42,969
when technology would overwhelm
human strengths and intelligence.

970
00:53:43,053 --> 00:53:47,015
When is it gonna cross the singularity,
replace our jobs, be smarter than humans?

971
00:53:48,141 --> 00:53:50,101
But there's this much earlier moment...

972
00:53:50,977 --> 00:53:55,315
when technology exceeds
and overwhelms human weaknesses.

973
00:53:57,484 --> 00:54:01,780
This point being crossed
is at the root of addiction,

974
00:54:02,113 --> 00:54:04,741
polarization, radicalization,
outrage-ification,

975
00:54:04,824 --> 00:54:06,368
vanity-ification, the entire thing.

976
00:54:07,702 --> 00:54:09,913
This is overpowering human nature,

977
00:54:10,538 --> 00:54:13,500
and this is checkmate on humanity.

978
00:54:20,131 --> 00:54:21,883
-[sighs deeply]
-[door opens]

979
00:54:30,558 --> 00:54:31,851
I'm sorry. [sighs]

980
00:54:37,607 --> 00:54:39,609
-[seat belt clicks]
-[engine starts]

981
00:54:41,736 --> 00:54:44,656
[Jaron] One of the ways
I try to get people to understand

982
00:54:45,198 --> 00:54:49,828
just how wrong feeds from places
like Facebook are

983
00:54:49,911 --> 00:54:51,454
is to think about the Wikipedia.

984
00:54:52,956 --> 00:54:56,209
When you go to a page, you're seeing
the same thing as other people.

985
00:54:56,584 --> 00:55:00,297
So, it's one of the few things online
that we at least hold in common.

986
00:55:00,380 --> 00:55:03,425
Now, just imagine for a second
that Wikipedia said,

987
00:55:03,508 --> 00:55:07,178
"We're gonna give each person
a different customized definition,

988
00:55:07,262 --> 00:55:09,472
and we're gonna be paid by people
for that."

989
00:55:09,556 --> 00:55:13,435
So, Wikipedia would be spying on you.
Wikipedia would calculate,

990
00:55:13,518 --> 00:55:17,188
"What's the thing I can do
to get this person to change a little bit

991
00:55:17,272 --> 00:55:19,899
on behalf of some commercial interest?"
Right?

992
00:55:19,983 --> 00:55:21,818
And then it would change the entry.

993
00:55:22,444 --> 00:55:24,738
Can you imagine that?
Well, you should be able to,

994
00:55:24,821 --> 00:55:26,823
'cause that's exactly what's happening
on Facebook.

995
00:55:26,906 --> 00:55:28,992
It's exactly what's happening
in your YouTube feed.

996
00:55:29,075 --> 00:55:31,786
When you go to Google and type in
"Climate change is,"

997
00:55:31,870 --> 00:55:34,998
you're going to see different results
depending on where you live.

998
00:55:36,166 --> 00:55:38,460
In certain cities,
you're gonna see it autocomplete

999
00:55:38,543 --> 00:55:40,462
with "climate change is a hoax."

1000
00:55:40,545 --> 00:55:42,088
In other cases, you're gonna see

1001
00:55:42,172 --> 00:55:44,841
"climate change is causing the destruction
of nature."

1002
00:55:44,924 --> 00:55:48,428
And that's a function not
of what the truth is about climate change,

1003
00:55:48,511 --> 00:55:51,097
but about
where you happen to be Googling from

1004
00:55:51,181 --> 00:55:54,100
and the particular things
Google knows about your interests.

1005
00:55:54,851 --> 00:55:58,021
Even two friends
who are so close to each other,

1006
00:55:58,104 --> 00:56:00,190
who have almost the exact same set
of friends,

1007
00:56:00,273 --> 00:56:02,817
they think, you know,
"I'm going to news feeds on Facebook.

1008
00:56:02,901 --> 00:56:05,403
I'll see the exact same set of updates."

1009
00:56:05,487 --> 00:56:06,738
But it's not like that at all.

1010
00:56:06,821 --> 00:56:08,448
They see completely different worlds

1011
00:56:08,531 --> 00:56:10,575
because they're based
on these computers calculating

1012
00:56:10,658 --> 00:56:12,035
what's perfect for each of them.

1013
00:56:12,118 --> 00:56:14,245
[whistling over monitor]

1014
00:56:14,329 --> 00:56:18,416
[Roger] The way to think about it
is it's 2.7 billion <i>Truman Shows.</i>

1015
00:56:18,500 --> 00:56:21,294
Each person has their own reality,
with their own...

1016
00:56:22,670 --> 00:56:23,671
facts.

1017
00:56:23,755 --> 00:56:27,008
<i>Why do you think</i>
<i>that, uh, Truman has never come close</i>

1018
00:56:27,092 --> 00:56:30,095
<i>to discovering the true nature</i>
<i>of his world until now?</i>

1019
00:56:31,054 --> 00:56:34,140
We accept the reality of the world
with which we're presented.

1020
00:56:34,224 --> 00:56:35,141
It's as simple as that.

1021
00:56:36,476 --> 00:56:41,064
Over time, you have the false sense
that everyone agrees with you,

1022
00:56:41,147 --> 00:56:44,067
because everyone in your news feed
sounds just like you.

1023
00:56:44,567 --> 00:56:49,072
And that once you're in that state,
it turns out you're easily manipulated,

1024
00:56:49,155 --> 00:56:51,741
the same way you would be manipulated
by a magician.

1025
00:56:51,825 --> 00:56:55,370
A magician shows you a card trick
and says, "Pick a card, any card."

1026
00:56:55,453 --> 00:56:58,164
What you don't realize
was that they've done a set-up,

1027
00:56:58,456 --> 00:57:00,583
so you pick the card
they want you to pick.

1028
00:57:00,667 --> 00:57:03,169
And that's how Facebook works.
Facebook sits there and says,

1029
00:57:03,253 --> 00:57:06,172
"Hey, you pick your friends.
You pick the links that you follow."

1030
00:57:06,256 --> 00:57:08,716
But that's all nonsense.
It's just like the magician.

1031
00:57:08,800 --> 00:57:11,302
Facebook is in charge of your news feed.

1032
00:57:11,386 --> 00:57:14,514
We all simply are operating
on a different set of facts.

1033
00:57:14,597 --> 00:57:16,474
When that happens at scale,

1034
00:57:16,558 --> 00:57:20,645
you're no longer able to reckon with
or even consume information

1035
00:57:20,728 --> 00:57:23,690
that contradicts with that world view
that you've created.

1036
00:57:23,773 --> 00:57:26,443
That means we aren't actually being
objective,

1037
00:57:26,526 --> 00:57:28,319
constructive individuals. [chuckles]

1038
00:57:28,403 --> 00:57:32,449
[crowd chanting] Open up your eyes,
don't believe the lies! Open up...

1039
00:57:32,532 --> 00:57:34,701
[Justin] And then you look
over at the other side,

1040
00:57:35,243 --> 00:57:38,746
and you start to think,
"How can those people be so stupid?

1041
00:57:38,830 --> 00:57:42,125
Look at all of this information
that I'm constantly seeing.

1042
00:57:42,208 --> 00:57:44,627
How are they not seeing
that same information?"

1043
00:57:44,711 --> 00:57:47,297
And the answer is, "They're not seeing
that same information."

1044
00:57:47,380 --> 00:57:50,800
[crowd continues chanting]
Open up your eyes, don't believe the lies!

1045
00:57:50,884 --> 00:57:52,010
[shouting indistinctly]

1046
00:57:52,093 --> 00:57:55,472
-[interviewer] What are Republicans like?
-People that don't have a clue.

1047
00:57:55,555 --> 00:57:58,933
The Democrat Party is a crime syndicate,
not a real political party.

1048
00:57:59,017 --> 00:58:03,188
A huge new Pew Research Center study
of 10,000 American adults

1049
00:58:03,271 --> 00:58:05,315
finds us more divided than ever,

1050
00:58:05,398 --> 00:58:09,152
with personal and political polarization
at a 20-year high.

1051
00:58:11,738 --> 00:58:14,199
[pundit] You have
more than a third of Republicans saying

1052
00:58:14,282 --> 00:58:16,826
the Democratic Party is a threat
to the nation,

1053
00:58:16,910 --> 00:58:20,580
more than a quarter of Democrats saying
the same thing about the Republicans.

1054
00:58:20,663 --> 00:58:22,499
So many of the problems
that we're discussing,

1055
00:58:22,582 --> 00:58:24,417
like, around political polarization

1056
00:58:24,501 --> 00:58:28,046
exist in spades on cable television.

1057
00:58:28,129 --> 00:58:31,007
The media has this exact same problem,

1058
00:58:31,090 --> 00:58:33,343
where their business model, by and large,

1059
00:58:33,426 --> 00:58:35,762
is that they're selling our attention
to advertisers.

1060
00:58:35,845 --> 00:58:38,890
And the Internet is just a new,
even more efficient way to do that.

1061
00:58:40,141 --> 00:58:44,145
[Guillaume] At YouTube, I was working
on YouTube recommendations.

1062
00:58:44,229 --> 00:58:47,148
It worries me that an algorithm
that I worked on

1063
00:58:47,232 --> 00:58:50,401
is actually increasing polarization
in society.

1064
00:58:50,485 --> 00:58:53,112
But from the point of view of watch time,

1065
00:58:53,196 --> 00:58:57,617
this polarization is extremely efficient
at keeping people online.

1066
00:58:58,785 --> 00:59:00,870
<i>The only reason</i>
<i>these teachers are teaching this stuff</i>

1067
00:59:00,954 --> 00:59:02,288
<i>is 'cause they're getting paid to.</i>

1068
00:59:02,372 --> 00:59:04,374
<i>-It's absolutely absurd.</i>
-[Cass] Hey, Benji.

1069
00:59:04,916 --> 00:59:06,292
No soccer practice today?

1070
00:59:06,376 --> 00:59:08,795
Oh, there is. I'm just catching up
on some news stuff.

1071
00:59:08,878 --> 00:59:11,506
[vlogger] <i>Do research. Anything</i>
<i>that sways from the Extreme Center--</i>

1072
00:59:11,589 --> 00:59:14,008
Wouldn't exactly call the stuff
that you're watching news.

1073
00:59:15,552 --> 00:59:18,846
You're always talking about how messed up
everything is. So are they.

1074
00:59:19,305 --> 00:59:21,140
But that stuff is just propaganda.

1075
00:59:21,224 --> 00:59:24,060
[vlogger] <i>Neither is true.</i>
<i>It's all about what makes sense.</i>

1076
00:59:24,769 --> 00:59:26,938
Ben, I'm serious.
That stuff is bad for you.

1077
00:59:27,021 --> 00:59:29,232
-You should go to soccer practice.
-[Ben] Mm.

1078
00:59:31,109 --> 00:59:31,943
[Cass sighs]

1079
00:59:35,154 --> 00:59:37,490
<i>I share this stuff because I care.</i>

1080
00:59:37,574 --> 00:59:41,077
<i>I care that you are being misled,</i>
<i>and it's not okay. All right?</i>

1081
00:59:41,160 --> 00:59:43,121
[Guillaume] People think
the algorithm is designed

1082
00:59:43,204 --> 00:59:46,833
to give them what they really want,
only it's not.

1083
00:59:46,916 --> 00:59:52,589
The algorithm is actually trying to find
a few rabbit holes that are very powerful,

1084
00:59:52,672 --> 00:59:56,217
trying to find which rabbit hole
is the closest to your interest.

1085
00:59:56,301 --> 00:59:59,262
And then if you start watching
one of those videos,

1086
00:59:59,846 --> 01:00:02,223
then it will recommend it
over and over again.

1087
01:00:02,682 --> 01:00:04,934
It's not like anybody wants this
to happen.

1088
01:00:05,018 --> 01:00:07,812
It's just that this is
what the recommendation system is doing.

1089
01:00:07,895 --> 01:00:10,815
So much so that Kyrie Irving,
the famous basketball player,

1090
01:00:11,065 --> 01:00:14,235
uh, said he believed the Earth was flat,
and he apologized later

1091
01:00:14,319 --> 01:00:16,154
because he blamed it
on a YouTube rabbit hole.

1092
01:00:16,487 --> 01:00:18,656
You know, like,
you click the YouTube click

1093
01:00:18,740 --> 01:00:21,534
and it goes, like,
how deep the rabbit hole goes.

1094
01:00:21,618 --> 01:00:23,369
When he later came on to NPR to say,

1095
01:00:23,453 --> 01:00:25,955
"I'm sorry for believing this.
 I didn't want to mislead people,"

1096
01:00:26,039 --> 01:00:28,291
a bunch of students in a classroom
were interviewed saying,

1097
01:00:28,374 --> 01:00:29,667
"The round-Earthers got to him."

1098
01:00:29,751 --> 01:00:30,960
[audience chuckles]

1099
01:00:31,044 --> 01:00:33,963
The flat-Earth conspiracy theory
was recommended

1100
01:00:34,047 --> 01:00:37,634
hundreds of millions of times
by the algorithm.

1101
01:00:37,717 --> 01:00:43,890
It's easy to think that it's just
a few stupid people who get convinced,

1102
01:00:43,973 --> 01:00:46,893
but the algorithm is getting smarter
and smarter every day.

1103
01:00:46,976 --> 01:00:50,188
So, today, they are convincing the people
that the Earth is flat,

1104
01:00:50,271 --> 01:00:53,983
but tomorrow, they will be convincing <i>you</i>
of something that's false.

1105
01:00:54,317 --> 01:00:57,820
[reporter] <i>On November 7th,</i>
<i>the hashtag "Pizzagate" was born.</i>

1106
01:00:57,904 --> 01:00:59,197
[Renée] Pizzagate...

1107
01:01:00,114 --> 01:01:01,449
[clicks tongue] Oh, boy.

1108
01:01:01,532 --> 01:01:02,533
Uh... [laughs]

1109
01:01:03,159 --> 01:01:06,913
I still am not 100 percent sure
how this originally came about,

1110
01:01:06,996 --> 01:01:12,377
but the idea that ordering a pizza
meant ordering a trafficked person.

1111
01:01:12,460 --> 01:01:15,046
As the groups got bigger on Facebook,

1112
01:01:15,129 --> 01:01:19,967
Facebook's recommendation engine
started suggesting to regular users

1113
01:01:20,051 --> 01:01:21,761
that they join Pizzagate groups.

1114
01:01:21,844 --> 01:01:27,392
So, if a user was, for example,
anti-vaccine or believed in chemtrails

1115
01:01:27,475 --> 01:01:30,645
or had indicated to Facebook's algorithms
in some way

1116
01:01:30,728 --> 01:01:33,398
that they were prone to belief
in conspiracy theories,

1117
01:01:33,481 --> 01:01:36,859
Facebook's recommendation engine
would serve them Pizzagate groups.

1118
01:01:36,943 --> 01:01:41,072
Eventually, this culminated in
a man showing up with a gun,

1119
01:01:41,155 --> 01:01:44,617
deciding that he was gonna go liberate
the children from the basement

1120
01:01:44,701 --> 01:01:46,911
of the pizza place
that did not have a basement.

1121
01:01:46,994 --> 01:01:48,538
[officer 1] What were you doing?

1122
01:01:48,871 --> 01:01:50,498
[man] Making sure
there was nothing there.

1123
01:01:50,581 --> 01:01:52,458
-[officer 1] Regarding?
-[man] Pedophile ring.

1124
01:01:52,542 --> 01:01:54,293
-[officer 1] What?
-[man] Pedophile ring.

1125
01:01:54,377 --> 01:01:55,962
[officer 2] He's talking about Pizzagate.

1126
01:01:56,045 --> 01:02:00,216
This is an example of a conspiracy theory

1127
01:02:00,299 --> 01:02:03,678
that was propagated
across all social networks.

1128
01:02:03,761 --> 01:02:06,097
The social network's
own recommendation engine

1129
01:02:06,180 --> 01:02:07,974
is voluntarily serving this up to people

1130
01:02:08,057 --> 01:02:10,643
who had never searched
for the term "Pizzagate" in their life.

1131
01:02:12,437 --> 01:02:14,439
[Tristan] There's a study, an MIT study,

1132
01:02:14,522 --> 01:02:19,819
that fake news on Twitter spreads
six times faster than true news.

1133
01:02:19,902 --> 01:02:21,863
What is that world gonna look like

1134
01:02:21,946 --> 01:02:24,741
when one has a six-times advantage
to the other one?

1135
01:02:25,283 --> 01:02:27,660
You can imagine
these things are sort of like...

1136
01:02:27,744 --> 01:02:31,706
they... they tilt the floor
of... of human behavior.

1137
01:02:31,789 --> 01:02:34,709
They make some behavior harder
and some easier.

1138
01:02:34,792 --> 01:02:37,420
And you're always free
to walk up the hill,

1139
01:02:37,503 --> 01:02:38,796
but fewer people do,

1140
01:02:38,880 --> 01:02:43,092
and so, at scale, at society's scale,
you really are just tilting the floor

1141
01:02:43,176 --> 01:02:45,970
and changing what billions of people think
and do.

1142
01:02:46,053 --> 01:02:52,018
We've created a system
that biases towards false information.

1143
01:02:52,643 --> 01:02:54,437
Not because we want to,

1144
01:02:54,520 --> 01:02:58,816
but because false information makes
the companies more money

1145
01:02:59,400 --> 01:03:01,319
than the truth. The truth is boring.

1146
01:03:01,986 --> 01:03:04,489
It's a disinformation-for-profit
business model.

1147
01:03:04,906 --> 01:03:08,159
You make money the more you allow
unregulated messages

1148
01:03:08,701 --> 01:03:11,287
to reach anyone for the best price.

1149
01:03:11,662 --> 01:03:13,956
<i>Because climate change? Yeah.</i>

1150
01:03:14,040 --> 01:03:16,751
<i>It's a hoax. Yeah, it's real.</i>
<i>That's the point.</i>

1151
01:03:16,834 --> 01:03:20,046
<i>The more they talk about it</i>
<i>and the more they divide us,</i>

1152
01:03:20,129 --> 01:03:22,423
<i>the more they have the power,</i>
<i>the more...</i>

1153
01:03:22,507 --> 01:03:25,468
[Tristan] Facebook has trillions
of these news feed posts.

1154
01:03:26,552 --> 01:03:29,180
They can't know what's real
or what's true...

1155
01:03:29,972 --> 01:03:33,726
which is why this conversation
is so critical right now.

1156
01:03:33,810 --> 01:03:37,021
[reporter 1] <i>It's not just COVID-19</i>
<i>that's spreading fast.</i>

1157
01:03:37,104 --> 01:03:40,191
<i>There's a flow of misinformation online</i>
<i>about the virus.</i>

1158
01:03:40,274 --> 01:03:41,818
[reporter 2]<i> The notion</i>
<i>drinking water</i>

1159
01:03:41,901 --> 01:03:43,694
<i>will flush coronavirus from your system</i>

1160
01:03:43,778 --> 01:03:47,490
<i>is one of several myths about the virus</i>
<i>circulating on social media.</i>

1161
01:03:47,573 --> 01:03:50,451
[automated voice] <i>The government planned</i>
<i>this event, created the virus,</i>

1162
01:03:50,535 --> 01:03:53,621
<i>and had a simulation</i>
<i>of how the countries would react.</i>

1163
01:03:53,955 --> 01:03:55,581
Coronavirus is a... a hoax.

1164
01:03:56,165 --> 01:03:57,959
[man] SARS, coronavirus.

1165
01:03:58,376 --> 01:04:01,045
And look at when it was made. 2018.

1166
01:04:01,128 --> 01:04:03,798
I think the US government started
this shit.

1167
01:04:04,215 --> 01:04:09,095
Nobody is sick. Nobody is sick.
Nobody knows anybody who's sick.

1168
01:04:09,512 --> 01:04:13,015
Maybe the government is using
the coronavirus as an excuse

1169
01:04:13,099 --> 01:04:15,643
to get everyone to stay inside
because something else is happening.

1170
01:04:15,726 --> 01:04:18,020
Coronavirus is not killing people,

1171
01:04:18,104 --> 01:04:20,940
it's the 5G radiation
that they're pumping out.

1172
01:04:21,023 --> 01:04:22,525
[crowd shouting]

1173
01:04:22,608 --> 01:04:24,944
[Tristan]
<i>We're being bombarded with rumors.</i>

1174
01:04:25,403 --> 01:04:28,823
<i>People are blowing up</i>
<i>actual physical cell phone towers.</i>

1175
01:04:28,906 --> 01:04:32,201
<i>We see Russia and China spreading rumors</i>
<i>and conspiracy theories.</i>

1176
01:04:32,285 --> 01:04:35,246
[reporter 3] <i>This morning,</i>
<i>panic and protest in Ukraine as...</i>

1177
01:04:35,329 --> 01:04:38,916
[Tristan] <i>People have no idea what's true,</i>
<i>and now it's a matter of life and death.</i>

1178
01:04:39,876 --> 01:04:42,628
[woman] Those sources that are spreading
coronavirus misinformation

1179
01:04:42,712 --> 01:04:45,798
have amassed
something like 52 million engagements.

1180
01:04:45,882 --> 01:04:50,094
You're saying that silver solution
would be effective.

1181
01:04:50,177 --> 01:04:54,140
Well, let's say it hasn't been tested
on this strain of the coronavirus, but...

1182
01:04:54,223 --> 01:04:57,226
[Tristan] <i>What we're seeing with COVID</i>
<i>is just an extreme version</i>

1183
01:04:57,310 --> 01:05:00,521
<i>of what's happening</i>
<i>across our information ecosystem.</i>

1184
01:05:00,938 --> 01:05:05,026
<i>Social media amplifies exponential gossip</i>
<i>and exponential hearsay</i>

1185
01:05:05,109 --> 01:05:07,111
<i>to the point</i>
<i>that we don't know what's true,</i>

1186
01:05:07,194 --> 01:05:08,946
<i>no matter what issue we care about.</i>

1187
01:05:15,161 --> 01:05:16,579
[teacher] He discovers this.

1188
01:05:16,662 --> 01:05:18,664
[continues lecturing indistinctly]

1189
01:05:19,874 --> 01:05:21,292
[Rebecca whispers] Ben.

1190
01:05:26,130 --> 01:05:28,257
-Are you still on the team?
-[Ben] Mm-hmm.

1191
01:05:30,384 --> 01:05:32,678
[Rebecca] Okay, well,
I'm gonna get a snack before practice

1192
01:05:32,762 --> 01:05:34,430
if you... wanna come.

1193
01:05:35,640 --> 01:05:36,515
[Ben] Hm?

1194
01:05:36,974 --> 01:05:38,601
[Rebecca] You know, never mind.

1195
01:05:38,684 --> 01:05:40,686
[footsteps fading]

1196
01:05:45,066 --> 01:05:47,526
[vlogger] <i>Nine out of ten people</i>
<i>are dissatisfied right now.</i>

1197
01:05:47,610 --> 01:05:50,613
<i>The EC is like any political movement</i>
<i>in history, when you think about it.</i>

1198
01:05:50,696 --> 01:05:54,492
<i>We are standing up, and we are...</i>
<i>we are standing up to this noise.</i>

1199
01:05:54,575 --> 01:05:57,036
<i>You are my people. I trust you guys.</i>

1200
01:05:59,246 --> 01:06:02,583
-The Extreme Center content is brilliant.
<i>-</i>He absolutely loves it.

1201
01:06:02,667 --> 01:06:03,626
Running an auction.

1202
01:06:04,627 --> 01:06:08,547
840 bidders. He sold for 4.35 cents
to a weapons manufacturer.

1203
01:06:08,631 --> 01:06:10,800
Let's promote some of these events.

1204
01:06:10,883 --> 01:06:13,511
Upcoming rallies in his geographic zone
later this week.

1205
01:06:13,594 --> 01:06:15,179
I've got a new vlogger lined up, too.

1206
01:06:15,262 --> 01:06:16,263
[chuckles]

1207
01:06:17,765 --> 01:06:22,979
<i>And... and, honestly, I'm telling you,</i>
<i>I'm willing to do whatever it takes.</i>

1208
01:06:23,062 --> 01:06:24,939
<i>And I mean whatever.</i>

1209
01:06:32,154 --> 01:06:33,197
<i>-Subscribe...</i>
-[Cass] Ben?

1210
01:06:33,280 --> 01:06:35,908
<i>...and also come back</i>
<i>because I'm telling you, yo...</i>

1211
01:06:35,992 --> 01:06:38,869
-[knocking on door]
<i>-...I got some real big things comin'.</i>

1212
01:06:38,953 --> 01:06:40,162
<i>Some real big things.</i>

1213
01:06:40,788 --> 01:06:45,292
[Roger] One of the problems with Facebook
is that, as a tool of persuasion,

1214
01:06:45,793 --> 01:06:47,920
it may be the greatest thing ever created.

1215
01:06:48,004 --> 01:06:52,508
Now, imagine what that means in the hands
of a dictator or an authoritarian.

1216
01:06:53,718 --> 01:06:57,638
If you want to control the population
of your country,

1217
01:06:57,722 --> 01:07:01,308
there has never been a tool
as effective as Facebook.

1218
01:07:04,937 --> 01:07:07,398
[Cynthia]
Some of the most troubling implications

1219
01:07:07,481 --> 01:07:10,985
of governments and other bad actors
weaponizing social media,

1220
01:07:11,235 --> 01:07:13,612
um, is that it has led
to real, offline harm.

1221
01:07:13,696 --> 01:07:15,072
I think the most prominent example

1222
01:07:15,156 --> 01:07:17,658
that's gotten a lot of press
is what's happened in Myanmar.

1223
01:07:19,243 --> 01:07:21,203
In Myanmar,
when people think of the Internet,

1224
01:07:21,287 --> 01:07:22,913
what they are thinking about is Facebook.

1225
01:07:22,997 --> 01:07:25,916
And what often happens is
when people buy their cell phone,

1226
01:07:26,000 --> 01:07:29,920
the cell phone shop owner will actually
preload Facebook on there for them

1227
01:07:30,004 --> 01:07:31,505
and open an account for them.

1228
01:07:31,589 --> 01:07:34,884
And so when people get their phone,
the first thing they open

1229
01:07:34,967 --> 01:07:37,595
and the only thing they know how to open
is Facebook.

1230
01:07:38,179 --> 01:07:41,891
Well, a new bombshell investigation
exposes Facebook's growing struggle

1231
01:07:41,974 --> 01:07:43,809
to tackle hate speech in Myanmar.

1232
01:07:43,893 --> 01:07:46,020
[crowd shouting]

1233
01:07:46,103 --> 01:07:49,190
Facebook really gave the military
and other bad actors

1234
01:07:49,273 --> 01:07:51,776
a new way to manipulate public opinion

1235
01:07:51,859 --> 01:07:55,529
and to help incite violence
against the Rohingya Muslims

1236
01:07:55,613 --> 01:07:57,406
that included mass killings,

1237
01:07:58,115 --> 01:07:59,867
burning of entire villages,

1238
01:07:59,950 --> 01:08:03,704
mass rape, and other serious crimes
against humanity

1239
01:08:03,788 --> 01:08:04,955
that have now led

1240
01:08:05,039 --> 01:08:08,209
to 700,000 Rohingya Muslims
having to flee the country.

1241
01:08:11,170 --> 01:08:14,799
It's not
that highly motivated propagandists

1242
01:08:14,882 --> 01:08:16,550
haven't existed before.

1243
01:08:16,634 --> 01:08:19,761
It's that the platforms make it possible

1244
01:08:19,845 --> 01:08:23,724
to spread manipulative narratives
with phenomenal ease,

1245
01:08:23,808 --> 01:08:25,434
and without very much money.

1246
01:08:25,518 --> 01:08:27,812
If I want to manipulate an election,

1247
01:08:27,895 --> 01:08:30,564
I can now go into
a conspiracy theory group on Facebook,

1248
01:08:30,648 --> 01:08:32,233
and I can find 100 people

1249
01:08:32,316 --> 01:08:34,443
who believe
that the Earth is completely flat

1250
01:08:34,859 --> 01:08:37,779
and think it's all this conspiracy theory
that we landed on the moon,

1251
01:08:37,863 --> 01:08:41,450
and I can tell Facebook,
"Give me 1,000 users who look like that."

1252
01:08:42,118 --> 01:08:46,080
Facebook will happily send me
thousands of users that look like them

1253
01:08:46,162 --> 01:08:49,250
that I can now hit
with more conspiracy theories.

1254
01:08:50,376 --> 01:08:53,087
-[button clicks]
-Sold for 3.4 cents an impression.

1255
01:08:53,379 --> 01:08:56,381
-New EC video to promote.
-[Advertising AI] Another ad teed up.

1256
01:08:58,509 --> 01:09:00,928
[Justin] Algorithms
and manipulative politicians

1257
01:09:01,011 --> 01:09:02,138
are becoming so expert

1258
01:09:02,220 --> 01:09:04,055
at learning how to trigger us,

1259
01:09:04,140 --> 01:09:08,352
getting so good at creating fake news
that we absorb as if it were reality,

1260
01:09:08,435 --> 01:09:10,813
and confusing us into believing
those lies.

1261
01:09:10,895 --> 01:09:12,606
It's as though we have
less and less control

1262
01:09:12,689 --> 01:09:14,149
over who we are and what we believe.

1263
01:09:14,233 --> 01:09:16,234
[ominous instrumental music playing]

1264
01:09:31,375 --> 01:09:32,835
[vlogger] <i>...so they can pick sides.</i>

1265
01:09:32,917 --> 01:09:34,879
<i>There's lies here,</i>
<i>and there's lies over there.</i>

1266
01:09:34,962 --> 01:09:36,337
<i>So they can keep the power,</i>

1267
01:09:36,421 --> 01:09:39,966
<i>-so they can control everything.</i>
-[police siren blaring]

1268
01:09:40,050 --> 01:09:42,553
[vlogger] <i>They can control our minds,</i>

1269
01:09:42,636 --> 01:09:46,390
<i>-so that they can keep their secrets.</i>
-[crowd chanting]

1270
01:09:48,517 --> 01:09:50,895
[Tristan] Imagine a world
where no one believes anything true.

1271
01:09:52,897 --> 01:09:55,649
Everyone believes
the government's lying to them.

1272
01:09:56,317 --> 01:09:58,444
Everything is a conspiracy theory.

1273
01:09:58,527 --> 01:10:01,197
"I shouldn't trust anyone.
I hate the other side."

1274
01:10:01,280 --> 01:10:02,698
That's where all this is heading.

1275
01:10:02,781 --> 01:10:06,160
The political earthquakes in Europe
continue to rumble.

1276
01:10:06,243 --> 01:10:08,412
This time, in Italy and Spain.

1277
01:10:08,495 --> 01:10:11,999
[reporter] <i>Overall, Europe's traditional,</i>
<i>centrist coalition lost its majority</i>

1278
01:10:12,082 --> 01:10:15,002
<i>while far right</i>
<i>and far left populist parties made gains.</i>

1279
01:10:15,085 --> 01:10:16,086
[man shouts]

1280
01:10:16,170 --> 01:10:17,504
[crowd chanting]

1281
01:10:19,757 --> 01:10:20,591
Back up.

1282
01:10:21,300 --> 01:10:22,509
-[radio beeps]
-Okay, let's go.

1283
01:10:24,845 --> 01:10:26,847
[police siren wailing]

1284
01:10:28,390 --> 01:10:31,268
[reporter] <i>These accounts</i>
<i>were deliberately, specifically attempting</i>

1285
01:10:31,352 --> 01:10:34,355
<i>-to sow political discord in Hong Kong.</i>
-[crowd shouting]

1286
01:10:36,440 --> 01:10:37,399
[sighs]

1287
01:10:38,609 --> 01:10:40,361
-All right, Ben.
-[car doors lock]

1288
01:10:42,863 --> 01:10:45,032
What does it look like to be a country

1289
01:10:45,115 --> 01:10:48,410
that's entire diet is Facebook
and social media?

1290
01:10:48,953 --> 01:10:50,871
Democracy crumbled quickly.

1291
01:10:50,955 --> 01:10:51,830
Six months.

1292
01:10:51,914 --> 01:10:53,791
[reporter 1] <i>After that chaos in Chicago,</i>

1293
01:10:53,874 --> 01:10:57,086
<i>violent clashes between protesters</i>
<i>and supporters...</i>

1294
01:10:58,003 --> 01:11:01,632
[reporter 2] <i>Democracy is facing</i>
<i>a crisis of confidence.</i>

1295
01:11:01,715 --> 01:11:04,343
What we're seeing is a global assault
on democracy.

1296
01:11:04,426 --> 01:11:05,427
[crowd shouting]

1297
01:11:05,511 --> 01:11:07,930
[Renée] Most of the countries
that are targeted are countries

1298
01:11:08,013 --> 01:11:09,723
that run democratic elections.

1299
01:11:10,641 --> 01:11:12,518
[Tristan] This is happening at scale.

1300
01:11:12,601 --> 01:11:15,562
By state actors,
by people with millions of dollars saying,

1301
01:11:15,646 --> 01:11:18,524
"I wanna destabilize Kenya.
I wanna destabilize Cameroon.

1302
01:11:18,607 --> 01:11:20,651
Oh, Angola? That only costs this much."

1303
01:11:20,734 --> 01:11:23,362
[reporter] <i>An extraordinary election</i>
<i>took place Sunday in Brazil.</i>

1304
01:11:23,445 --> 01:11:25,823
With a campaign that's been powered
by social media.

1305
01:11:25,906 --> 01:11:29,702
[crowd chanting in Portuguese]

1306
01:11:31,036 --> 01:11:33,956
[Tristan] We in the tech industry
have created the tools

1307
01:11:34,039 --> 01:11:37,418
to destabilize
and erode the fabric of society

1308
01:11:37,501 --> 01:11:40,254
in every country, all at once, everywhere.

1309
01:11:40,337 --> 01:11:44,508
You have this in Germany, Spain, France,
Brazil, Australia.

1310
01:11:44,591 --> 01:11:47,261
Some of the most "developed nations"
in the world

1311
01:11:47,344 --> 01:11:49,221
are now imploding on each other,

1312
01:11:49,305 --> 01:11:50,931
and what do they have in common?

1313
01:11:51,974 --> 01:11:52,975
Knowing what you know now,

1314
01:11:53,058 --> 01:11:56,312
do you believe Facebook impacted
the results of the 2016 election?

1315
01:11:56,770 --> 01:11:58,814
[Mark Zuckerberg]
Oh, that's... that is hard.

1316
01:11:58,897 --> 01:12:00,691
You know, it's... the...

1317
01:12:01,275 --> 01:12:04,653
the reality is, well, there
were so many different forces at play.

1318
01:12:04,737 --> 01:12:07,865
Representatives from Facebook, Twitter,
and Google are back on Capitol Hill

1319
01:12:07,948 --> 01:12:09,450
for a second day of testimony

1320
01:12:09,533 --> 01:12:12,578
about Russia's interference
in the 2016 election.

1321
01:12:12,661 --> 01:12:17,291
The manipulation
by third parties is not a hack.

1322
01:12:18,500 --> 01:12:21,462
Right? The Russians didn't hack Facebook.

1323
01:12:21,545 --> 01:12:24,965
What they did was they used the tools
that Facebook created

1324
01:12:25,049 --> 01:12:27,843
for legitimate advertisers
and legitimate users,

1325
01:12:27,926 --> 01:12:30,346
and they applied it
to a nefarious purpose.

1326
01:12:32,014 --> 01:12:34,391
[Tristan]
It's like remote-control warfare.

1327
01:12:34,475 --> 01:12:36,602
One country can manipulate another one

1328
01:12:36,685 --> 01:12:39,229
without actually invading
its physical borders.

1329
01:12:39,605 --> 01:12:42,232
[reporter 1] <i>We're seeing violent images.</i>
<i>It appears to be a dumpster</i>

1330
01:12:42,316 --> 01:12:43,317
<i>being pushed around...</i>

1331
01:12:43,400 --> 01:12:46,028
[Tristan] But it wasn't
about who you wanted to vote for.

1332
01:12:46,362 --> 01:12:50,574
It was about sowing total chaos
and division in society.

1333
01:12:50,657 --> 01:12:53,035
[reporter 2] <i>Now,</i>
<i>this was in Huntington Beach. A march...</i>

1334
01:12:53,118 --> 01:12:54,870
[Tristan] It's about making two sides

1335
01:12:54,953 --> 01:12:56,413
who couldn't hear each other anymore,

1336
01:12:56,497 --> 01:12:58,123
who didn't want to hear each other
anymore,

1337
01:12:58,207 --> 01:12:59,875
who didn't trust each other anymore.

1338
01:12:59,958 --> 01:13:03,212
[reporter 3] <i>This is a city</i>
<i>where hatred was laid bare</i>

1339
01:13:03,295 --> 01:13:05,464
<i>and transformed into racial violence.</i>

1340
01:13:05,547 --> 01:13:07,549
[crowd shouting]

1341
01:13:09,009 --> 01:13:11,178
[indistinct shouting]

1342
01:13:12,471 --> 01:13:14,014
[men grunting]

1343
01:13:17,851 --> 01:13:20,062
[police siren blaring]

1344
01:13:20,145 --> 01:13:20,979
[Cass] Ben!

1345
01:13:21,605 --> 01:13:22,439
Cassandra!

1346
01:13:22,981 --> 01:13:23,816
-Cass!
-Ben!

1347
01:13:23,899 --> 01:13:25,484
[officer 1] Come here! Come here!

1348
01:13:27,486 --> 01:13:31,156
Arms up. Arms up.
Get down on your knees. Now, down.

1349
01:13:31,240 --> 01:13:32,491
[crowd continues shouting]

1350
01:13:36,120 --> 01:13:37,204
-[officer 2] Calm--
-Ben!

1351
01:13:37,287 --> 01:13:38,664
[officer 2] Hey! Hands up!

1352
01:13:39,623 --> 01:13:41,750
Turn around. On the ground. On the ground!

1353
01:13:43,710 --> 01:13:46,463
-[crowd echoing]
-[melancholy piano music playing]

1354
01:13:51,969 --> 01:13:54,388
[siren continues wailing]

1355
01:13:56,723 --> 01:14:00,018
[Tristan] Do we want this system for sale
to the highest bidder?

1356
01:14:01,437 --> 01:14:05,399
For democracy to be completely for sale,
where you can reach any mind you want,

1357
01:14:05,482 --> 01:14:09,069
target a lie to that specific population,
and create culture wars?

1358
01:14:09,236 --> 01:14:10,237
Do we want that?

1359
01:14:14,700 --> 01:14:16,577
[Marco Rubio] We are a nation of people...

1360
01:14:16,952 --> 01:14:18,871
that no longer speak to each other.

1361
01:14:19,872 --> 01:14:23,000
We are a nation of people
who have stopped being friends with people

1362
01:14:23,083 --> 01:14:25,461
because of who they voted for
in the last election.

1363
01:14:25,878 --> 01:14:28,422
We are a nation of people
who have isolated ourselves

1364
01:14:28,505 --> 01:14:30,966
to only watch channels
that tell us that we're right.

1365
01:14:32,259 --> 01:14:36,597
My message here today is that tribalism
is ruining us.

1366
01:14:37,347 --> 01:14:39,183
It is tearing our country apart.

1367
01:14:40,267 --> 01:14:42,811
It is no way for sane adults to act.

1368
01:14:43,187 --> 01:14:45,314
If everyone's entitled to their own facts,

1369
01:14:45,397 --> 01:14:49,401
there's really no need for compromise,
no need for people to come together.

1370
01:14:49,485 --> 01:14:51,695
In fact, there's really no need
for people to interact.

1371
01:14:52,321 --> 01:14:53,530
We need to have...

1372
01:14:53,989 --> 01:14:58,410
some shared understanding of reality.
Otherwise, we aren't a country.

1373
01:14:58,952 --> 01:15:02,998
So, uh, long-term, the solution here is
to build more AI tools

1374
01:15:03,081 --> 01:15:08,128
that find patterns of people using
the services that no real person would do.

1375
01:15:08,212 --> 01:15:11,840
We are allowing the technologists
to frame this as a problem

1376
01:15:11,924 --> 01:15:13,884
that they're equipped to solve.

1377
01:15:15,135 --> 01:15:16,470
That is... That's a lie.

1378
01:15:17,679 --> 01:15:20,724
People talk about AI
as if it will know truth.

1379
01:15:21,683 --> 01:15:23,685
AI's not gonna solve these problems.

1380
01:15:24,269 --> 01:15:27,189
AI cannot solve the problem of fake news.

1381
01:15:28,649 --> 01:15:31,026
Google doesn't have the option of saying,

1382
01:15:31,109 --> 01:15:36,240
"Oh, is this conspiracy? Is this truth?"
Because they don't know what truth is.

1383
01:15:36,782 --> 01:15:37,783
They don't have a...

1384
01:15:37,908 --> 01:15:40,827
They don't have a proxy for truth
that's better than a click.

1385
01:15:41,870 --> 01:15:45,123
If we don't agree on what is true

1386
01:15:45,207 --> 01:15:47,584
or that there is such a thing as truth,

1387
01:15:48,293 --> 01:15:49,294
we're toast.

1388
01:15:49,753 --> 01:15:52,089
This is the problem
beneath other problems

1389
01:15:52,172 --> 01:15:54,424
because if we can't agree on what's true,

1390
01:15:55,092 --> 01:15:57,803
then we can't navigate
out of any of our problems.

1391
01:15:57,886 --> 01:16:00,806
-[ominous instrumental music playing]
-[console droning]

1392
01:16:05,435 --> 01:16:07,729
[Growth AI] We should suggest
Flat Earth Football Club.

1393
01:16:07,813 --> 01:16:10,566
[Engagement AI] Don't show him
sports updates. He doesn't engage.

1394
01:16:11,483 --> 01:16:14,027
[AIs speaking indistinctly]

1395
01:16:15,696 --> 01:16:17,698
[music swells]

1396
01:16:39,886 --> 01:16:42,764
[Jaron] A lot of people in Silicon Valley
subscribe to some kind of theory

1397
01:16:42,848 --> 01:16:45,142
that we're building
some global super brain,

1398
01:16:45,309 --> 01:16:48,020
and all of our users
are just interchangeable little neurons,

1399
01:16:48,103 --> 01:16:49,563
no one of which is important.

1400
01:16:50,230 --> 01:16:53,150
And it subjugates people
into this weird role

1401
01:16:53,233 --> 01:16:56,069
where you're just, like,
this little computing element

1402
01:16:56,153 --> 01:16:58,905
that we're programming
through our behavior manipulation

1403
01:16:58,989 --> 01:17:02,367
for the service of this giant brain,
and you don't matter.

1404
01:17:02,451 --> 01:17:04,911
You're not gonna get paid.
You're not gonna get acknowledged.

1405
01:17:04,995 --> 01:17:06,455
You don't have self-determination.

1406
01:17:06,538 --> 01:17:09,416
We'll sneakily just manipulate you
because you're a computing node,

1407
01:17:09,499 --> 01:17:12,336
so we need to program you 'cause that's
what you do with computing nodes.

1408
01:17:14,504 --> 01:17:16,506
[reflective instrumental music playing]

1409
01:17:20,093 --> 01:17:21,845
Oh, man. [sighs]

1410
01:17:21,928 --> 01:17:25,390
[Tristan] When you think about technology
and it being an existential threat,

1411
01:17:25,474 --> 01:17:28,060
you know, that's a big claim, and...

1412
01:17:29,603 --> 01:17:33,982
it's easy to then, in your mind, think,
"Okay, so, there I am with the phone...

1413
01:17:35,609 --> 01:17:37,235
scrolling, clicking, using it.

1414
01:17:37,319 --> 01:17:39,196
Like, where's the existential threat?

1415
01:17:40,280 --> 01:17:41,615
Okay, there's the supercomputer.

1416
01:17:41,698 --> 01:17:43,950
The other side of the screen,
pointed at my brain,

1417
01:17:44,409 --> 01:17:47,537
got me to watch one more video.
Where's the existential threat?"

1418
01:17:47,621 --> 01:17:49,623
[indistinct chatter]

1419
01:17:54,252 --> 01:17:57,631
[Tristan] It's not
about the technology

1420
01:17:57,714 --> 01:17:59,341
being the existential threat.

1421
01:18:03,679 --> 01:18:06,264
It's the technology's ability

1422
01:18:06,348 --> 01:18:09,476
to bring out the worst in society...
[chuckles]

1423
01:18:09,559 --> 01:18:13,522
...and the worst in society
being the existential threat.

1424
01:18:18,819 --> 01:18:20,570
If technology creates...

1425
01:18:21,697 --> 01:18:23,115
mass chaos,

1426
01:18:23,198 --> 01:18:24,533
outrage, incivility,

1427
01:18:24,616 --> 01:18:26,326
lack of trust in each other,

1428
01:18:27,452 --> 01:18:30,414
loneliness, alienation, more polarization,

1429
01:18:30,706 --> 01:18:33,333
more election hacking, more populism,

1430
01:18:33,917 --> 01:18:36,962
more distraction and inability
to focus on the real issues...

1431
01:18:37,963 --> 01:18:39,715
that's just society. [scoffs]

1432
01:18:40,340 --> 01:18:46,388
And now society
is incapable of healing itself

1433
01:18:46,471 --> 01:18:48,515
and just devolving into a kind of chaos.

1434
01:18:51,977 --> 01:18:54,938
This affects everyone,
even if you don't use these products.

1435
01:18:55,397 --> 01:18:57,524
These things have become
digital Frankensteins

1436
01:18:57,607 --> 01:19:00,068
that are terraforming the world
in their image,

1437
01:19:00,152 --> 01:19:01,862
whether it's the mental health of children

1438
01:19:01,945 --> 01:19:04,489
or our politics
and our political discourse,

1439
01:19:04,573 --> 01:19:07,492
without taking responsibility
for taking over the public square.

1440
01:19:07,576 --> 01:19:10,579
-So, again, it comes back to--
-And who do you think's responsible?

1441
01:19:10,662 --> 01:19:13,582
I think we have
to have the platforms be responsible

1442
01:19:13,665 --> 01:19:15,584
for when they take over
election advertising,

1443
01:19:15,667 --> 01:19:17,794
they're responsible
for protecting elections.

1444
01:19:17,878 --> 01:19:20,380
When they take over mental health of kids
or Saturday morning,

1445
01:19:20,464 --> 01:19:22,841
they're responsible
for protecting Saturday morning.

1446
01:19:23,592 --> 01:19:27,929
The race to keep people's attention
isn't going away.

1447
01:19:28,388 --> 01:19:31,850
Our technology's gonna become
more integrated into our lives, not less.

1448
01:19:31,933 --> 01:19:34,895
The AIs are gonna get better at predicting
what keeps us on the screen,

1449
01:19:34,978 --> 01:19:37,105
not worse at predicting
what keeps us on the screen.

1450
01:19:38,940 --> 01:19:42,027
I... I am 62 years old,

1451
01:19:42,110 --> 01:19:44,821
getting older every minute,
the more this conversation goes on...

1452
01:19:44,905 --> 01:19:48,033
-[crowd chuckles]
-...but... but I will tell you that, um...

1453
01:19:48,700 --> 01:19:52,370
I'm probably gonna be dead and gone,
and I'll probably be thankful for it,

1454
01:19:52,454 --> 01:19:54,331
when all this shit comes to fruition.

1455
01:19:54,790 --> 01:19:59,586
Because... Because I think
that this scares me to death.

1456
01:20:00,754 --> 01:20:03,048
Do... Do you...
Do you see it the same way?

1457
01:20:03,548 --> 01:20:06,885
Or am I overreacting to a situation
that I don't know enough about?

1458
01:20:09,805 --> 01:20:11,598
[interviewer]
What are you most worried about?

1459
01:20:13,850 --> 01:20:18,480
[sighs] I think,
in the... in the shortest time horizon...

1460
01:20:19,523 --> 01:20:20,524
civil war.

1461
01:20:24,444 --> 01:20:29,908
If we go down the current status quo
for, let's say, another 20 years...

1462
01:20:31,117 --> 01:20:34,579
we probably destroy our civilization
through willful ignorance.

1463
01:20:34,663 --> 01:20:37,958
We probably fail to meet the challenge
of climate change.

1464
01:20:38,041 --> 01:20:42,087
We probably degrade
the world's democracies

1465
01:20:42,170 --> 01:20:46,132
so that they fall into some sort
of bizarre autocratic dysfunction.

1466
01:20:46,216 --> 01:20:48,426
We probably ruin the global economy.

1467
01:20:48,760 --> 01:20:52,264
Uh, we probably, um, don't survive.

1468
01:20:52,347 --> 01:20:54,808
You know,
I... I really do view it as existential.

1469
01:20:54,891 --> 01:20:56,893
[helicopter blades whirring]

1470
01:21:02,524 --> 01:21:04,985
[Tristan]
Is this the last generation of people

1471
01:21:05,068 --> 01:21:08,488
that are gonna know what it was like
before this illusion took place?

1472
01:21:11,074 --> 01:21:14,578
Like, how do you wake up from the matrix
when you don't know you're in the matrix?

1473
01:21:14,661 --> 01:21:16,538
[ominous instrumental music playing]

1474
01:21:27,382 --> 01:21:30,635
[Tristan] A lot of what we're saying
sounds like it's just this...

1475
01:21:31,511 --> 01:21:33,680
one-sided doom and gloom.

1476
01:21:33,763 --> 01:21:36,808
Like, "Oh, my God,
technology's just ruining the world

1477
01:21:36,892 --> 01:21:38,059
and it's ruining kids,"

1478
01:21:38,143 --> 01:21:40,061
and it's like... "No." [chuckles]

1479
01:21:40,228 --> 01:21:44,065
It's confusing
because it's simultaneous utopia...

1480
01:21:44,608 --> 01:21:45,567
and dystopia.

1481
01:21:45,942 --> 01:21:50,447
Like, I could hit a button on my phone,
and a car shows up in 30 seconds,

1482
01:21:50,530 --> 01:21:52,699
and I can go exactly where I need to go.

1483
01:21:52,782 --> 01:21:55,660
That is magic. That's amazing.

1484
01:21:56,161 --> 01:21:57,662
When we were making the like button,

1485
01:21:57,746 --> 01:22:01,499
our entire motivation was, "Can we spread
positivity and love in the world?"

1486
01:22:01,583 --> 01:22:05,003
The idea that, fast-forward to today,
and teens would be getting depressed

1487
01:22:05,086 --> 01:22:06,421
when they don't have enough likes,

1488
01:22:06,504 --> 01:22:08,632
or it could be leading
to political polarization

1489
01:22:08,715 --> 01:22:09,883
was nowhere on our radar.

1490
01:22:09,966 --> 01:22:12,135
I don't think these guys set out
to be evil.

1491
01:22:13,511 --> 01:22:15,764
It's just the business model
that has a problem.

1492
01:22:15,847 --> 01:22:20,226
You could shut down the service
and destroy whatever it is--

1493
01:22:20,310 --> 01:22:24,522
$20 billion of shareholder value--
and get sued and...

1494
01:22:24,606 --> 01:22:27,108
But you can't, in practice,
put the genie back in the bottle.

1495
01:22:27,192 --> 01:22:30,403
You can make some tweaks,
but at the end of the day,

1496
01:22:30,487 --> 01:22:34,032
you've gotta grow revenue and usage,
quarter over quarter. It's...

1497
01:22:34,658 --> 01:22:37,535
The bigger it gets,
the harder it is for anyone to change.

1498
01:22:38,495 --> 01:22:43,458
What I see is a bunch of people
who are trapped by a business model,

1499
01:22:43,541 --> 01:22:46,169
an economic incentive,
and shareholder pressure

1500
01:22:46,252 --> 01:22:48,922
that makes it almost impossible
to do something else.

1501
01:22:49,005 --> 01:22:50,924
I think we need to accept that it's okay

1502
01:22:51,007 --> 01:22:53,176
for companies to be focused
on making money.

1503
01:22:53,259 --> 01:22:55,637
What's not okay
is when there's no regulation, no rules,

1504
01:22:55,720 --> 01:22:56,888
and no competition,

1505
01:22:56,972 --> 01:23:00,850
and the companies are acting
as sort of de facto governments.

1506
01:23:00,934 --> 01:23:03,353
And then they're saying,
"Well, we can regulate ourselves."

1507
01:23:03,436 --> 01:23:05,981
I mean, that's just a lie.
That's just ridiculous.

1508
01:23:06,064 --> 01:23:08,650
Financial incentives kind of run
the world,

1509
01:23:08,733 --> 01:23:12,529
so any solution to this problem

1510
01:23:12,612 --> 01:23:15,573
has to realign the financial incentives.

1511
01:23:16,074 --> 01:23:18,785
There's no fiscal reason
for these companies to change.

1512
01:23:18,868 --> 01:23:21,329
And that is why I think
we need regulation.

1513
01:23:21,413 --> 01:23:24,290
The phone company
has tons of sensitive data about you,

1514
01:23:24,374 --> 01:23:27,544
and we have a lot of laws that make sure
they don't do the wrong things.

1515
01:23:27,627 --> 01:23:31,506
We have almost no laws
around digital privacy, for example.

1516
01:23:31,589 --> 01:23:34,426
We could tax data collection
and processing

1517
01:23:34,509 --> 01:23:37,554
the same way that you, for example,
pay your water bill

1518
01:23:37,637 --> 01:23:39,723
by monitoring the amount of water
that you use.

1519
01:23:39,806 --> 01:23:43,226
You tax these companies on the data assets
that they have.

1520
01:23:43,309 --> 01:23:44,769
It gives them a fiscal reason

1521
01:23:44,853 --> 01:23:47,856
to not acquire every piece of data
on the planet.

1522
01:23:47,939 --> 01:23:50,567
The law runs way behind on these things,

1523
01:23:50,650 --> 01:23:55,864
but what I know is the current situation
exists not for the protection of users,

1524
01:23:55,947 --> 01:23:58,700
but for the protection
of the rights and privileges

1525
01:23:58,783 --> 01:24:01,453
of these gigantic,
incredibly wealthy companies.

1526
01:24:02,245 --> 01:24:05,832
Are we always gonna defer to the richest,
most powerful people?

1527
01:24:05,915 --> 01:24:07,417
Or are we ever gonna say,

1528
01:24:07,959 --> 01:24:12,047
"You know, there are times
when there is a national interest.

1529
01:24:12,130 --> 01:24:15,592
There are times
when the interests of people, of users,

1530
01:24:15,675 --> 01:24:17,385
is actually more important

1531
01:24:18,011 --> 01:24:21,473
than the profits of somebody
who's already a billionaire"?

1532
01:24:21,556 --> 01:24:26,603
These markets undermine democracy,
and they undermine freedom,

1533
01:24:26,686 --> 01:24:28,521
and they should be outlawed.

1534
01:24:29,147 --> 01:24:31,816
This is not a radical proposal.

1535
01:24:31,900 --> 01:24:34,194
There are other markets that we outlaw.

1536
01:24:34,277 --> 01:24:36,988
We outlaw markets in human organs.

1537
01:24:37,072 --> 01:24:39,491
We outlaw markets in human slaves.

1538
01:24:39,949 --> 01:24:44,037
Because they have
inevitable destructive consequences.

1539
01:24:44,537 --> 01:24:45,830
We live in a world

1540
01:24:45,914 --> 01:24:50,001
in which a tree is worth more,
financially, dead than alive,

1541
01:24:50,085 --> 01:24:53,838
in a world in which a whale
is worth more dead than alive.

1542
01:24:53,922 --> 01:24:56,341
For so long as our economy works
in that way

1543
01:24:56,424 --> 01:24:58,134
and corporations go unregulated,

1544
01:24:58,218 --> 01:25:00,678
they're going to continue
to destroy trees,

1545
01:25:00,762 --> 01:25:01,763
to kill whales,

1546
01:25:01,846 --> 01:25:06,101
to mine the earth, and to continue
to pull oil out of the ground,

1547
01:25:06,184 --> 01:25:08,394
even though we know
it is destroying the planet

1548
01:25:08,478 --> 01:25:12,148
and we know that it's going to leave
a worse world for future generations.

1549
01:25:12,232 --> 01:25:13,858
This is short-term thinking

1550
01:25:13,942 --> 01:25:16,694
based on this religion of profit
at all costs,

1551
01:25:16,778 --> 01:25:20,156
as if somehow, magically, each corporation
acting in its selfish interest

1552
01:25:20,240 --> 01:25:21,950
is going to produce the best result.

1553
01:25:22,033 --> 01:25:24,494
This has been affecting the environment
for a long time.

1554
01:25:24,577 --> 01:25:27,288
What's frightening,
and what hopefully is the last straw

1555
01:25:27,372 --> 01:25:29,207
that will make us wake up
as a civilization

1556
01:25:29,290 --> 01:25:31,709
to how flawed this theory has been
in the first place

1557
01:25:31,793 --> 01:25:35,004
is to see that now we're the tree,
we're the whale.

1558
01:25:35,088 --> 01:25:37,048
Our attention can be mined.

1559
01:25:37,132 --> 01:25:39,134
We are more profitable to a corporation

1560
01:25:39,217 --> 01:25:41,594
if we're spending time
staring at a screen,

1561
01:25:41,678 --> 01:25:42,971
staring at an ad,

1562
01:25:43,054 --> 01:25:45,890
than if we're spending that time
living our life in a rich way.

1563
01:25:45,974 --> 01:25:47,559
And so, we're seeing the results of that.

1564
01:25:47,642 --> 01:25:50,687
We're seeing corporations using
powerful artificial intelligence

1565
01:25:50,770 --> 01:25:53,648
to outsmart us and figure out
how to pull our attention

1566
01:25:53,731 --> 01:25:55,358
toward the things they want us to look at,

1567
01:25:55,441 --> 01:25:57,277
rather than the things
that are most consistent

1568
01:25:57,360 --> 01:25:59,237
with our goals and our values
and our lives.

1569
01:25:59,320 --> 01:26:01,322
[static crackles]

1570
01:26:02,991 --> 01:26:04,450
[crowd cheering]

1571
01:26:05,535 --> 01:26:06,911
[Steve Jobs] What a computer is,

1572
01:26:06,995 --> 01:26:10,290
is it's the most remarkable tool
that we've ever come up with.

1573
01:26:11,124 --> 01:26:13,877
And it's the equivalent of a bicycle
for our minds.

1574
01:26:15,628 --> 01:26:20,091
The idea of humane technology,
that's where Silicon Valley got its start.

1575
01:26:21,050 --> 01:26:25,722
And we've lost sight of it
because it became the cool thing to do,

1576
01:26:25,805 --> 01:26:27,265
as opposed to the right thing to do.

1577
01:26:27,348 --> 01:26:29,726
The Internet was, like,
a weird, wacky place.

1578
01:26:29,809 --> 01:26:31,394
It was experimental.

1579
01:26:31,477 --> 01:26:34,731
Creative things happened on the Internet,
and certainly, they do still,

1580
01:26:34,814 --> 01:26:38,610
but, like, it just feels like this,
like, giant mall. [chuckles]

1581
01:26:38,693 --> 01:26:42,071
You know, it's just like, "God,
there's gotta be...

1582
01:26:42,155 --> 01:26:44,157
there's gotta be more to it than that."

1583
01:26:44,991 --> 01:26:45,992
[man typing]

1584
01:26:46,659 --> 01:26:48,411
[Bailey] I guess I'm just an optimist.

1585
01:26:48,494 --> 01:26:52,040
'Cause I think we can change
what social media looks like and means.

1586
01:26:54,083 --> 01:26:56,711
[Justin] The way the technology works
is not a law of physics.

1587
01:26:56,794 --> 01:26:57,921
It is not set in stone.

1588
01:26:58,004 --> 01:27:02,175
These are choices that human beings
like myself have been making.

1589
01:27:02,759 --> 01:27:05,345
And human beings can change
those technologies.

1590
01:27:06,971 --> 01:27:09,974
[Tristan] And the question now is
whether or not we're willing to admit

1591
01:27:10,475 --> 01:27:15,438
that those bad outcomes are coming
directly as a product of our work.

1592
01:27:21,027 --> 01:27:24,864
It's that we built these things,
and we have a responsibility to change it.

1593
01:27:28,409 --> 01:27:30,411
[static crackling]

1594
01:27:37,085 --> 01:27:38,711
[Tristan] The attention extraction model

1595
01:27:38,795 --> 01:27:42,298
is not how we want to treat
human beings.

1596
01:27:45,343 --> 01:27:48,137
[distorted] Is it just me or...

1597
01:27:49,722 --> 01:27:51,099
[distorted] Poor sucker.

1598
01:27:51,516 --> 01:27:53,226
[Tristan] The fabric of a healthy society

1599
01:27:53,309 --> 01:27:56,145
depends on us getting off
this corrosive business model.

1600
01:27:56,938 --> 01:27:58,064
[console beeps]

1601
01:27:58,147 --> 01:28:00,149
[gentle instrumental music playing]

1602
01:28:01,526 --> 01:28:04,612
[console whirs, grows quiet]

1603
01:28:04,696 --> 01:28:08,157
[Tristan] We can demand
that these products be designed humanely.

1604
01:28:09,409 --> 01:28:13,121
We can demand to not be treated
as an extractable resource.

1605
01:28:15,164 --> 01:28:18,334
The intention could be:
"How do we make the world better?"

1606
01:28:20,336 --> 01:28:21,504
[Jaron] Throughout history,

1607
01:28:21,587 --> 01:28:23,798
every single time
something's gotten better,

1608
01:28:23,881 --> 01:28:26,342
it's because somebody has come along
to say,

1609
01:28:26,426 --> 01:28:28,428
"This is stupid. We can do better."
[laughs]

1610
01:28:29,178 --> 01:28:32,557
Like, it's the critics
that drive improvement.

1611
01:28:33,141 --> 01:28:35,393
It's the critics
who are the true optimists.

1612
01:28:37,020 --> 01:28:39,147
[sighs] Hello.

1613
01:28:42,984 --> 01:28:44,277
[sighs] Um...

1614
01:28:46,195 --> 01:28:47,697
I mean, it seems kind of crazy, right?

1615
01:28:47,780 --> 01:28:51,534
It's like the fundamental way
that this stuff is designed...

1616
01:28:52,994 --> 01:28:55,163
isn't going in a good direction.
[chuckles]

1617
01:28:55,246 --> 01:28:56,873
Like, the entire thing.

1618
01:28:56,956 --> 01:29:00,626
So, it sounds crazy to say
we need to change all that,

1619
01:29:01,169 --> 01:29:02,670
but that's what we need to do.

1620
01:29:04,297 --> 01:29:05,923
[interviewer] Think we're gonna get there?

1621
01:29:07,383 --> 01:29:08,301
We have to.

1622
01:29:14,515 --> 01:29:16,476
[tense instrumental music playing]

1623
01:29:20,646 --> 01:29:24,942
[interviewer] Um,
it seems like you're very optimistic.

1624
01:29:26,194 --> 01:29:27,570
-Is that how I sound?
-[crew laughs]

1625
01:29:27,653 --> 01:29:28,905
[interviewer] Yeah, I mean...

1626
01:29:28,988 --> 01:29:31,449
I can't believe you keep saying that,
because I'm like, "Really?

1627
01:29:31,532 --> 01:29:33,409
I feel like we're headed toward dystopia.

1628
01:29:33,493 --> 01:29:35,328
I feel like we're on the fast track
to dystopia,

1629
01:29:35,411 --> 01:29:37,830
and it's gonna take a miracle
to get us out of it."

1630
01:29:37,914 --> 01:29:40,291
And that miracle is, of course,
collective will.

1631
01:29:41,000 --> 01:29:44,587
I am optimistic
that we're going to figure it out,

1632
01:29:44,670 --> 01:29:47,048
but I think it's gonna take a long time.

1633
01:29:47,131 --> 01:29:50,385
Because not everybody recognizes
that this is a problem.

1634
01:29:50,468 --> 01:29:55,890
I think one of the big failures
in technology today

1635
01:29:55,973 --> 01:29:58,643
is a real failure of leadership,

1636
01:29:58,726 --> 01:30:01,979
of, like, people coming out
and having these open conversations

1637
01:30:02,063 --> 01:30:05,900
about things that... not just
what went well, but what isn't perfect

1638
01:30:05,983 --> 01:30:08,194
so that someone can come in
and build something new.

1639
01:30:08,277 --> 01:30:10,321
At the end of the day, you know,

1640
01:30:10,405 --> 01:30:14,617
this machine isn't gonna turn around
until there's massive public pressure.

1641
01:30:14,700 --> 01:30:18,329
By having these conversations
and... and voicing your opinion,

1642
01:30:18,413 --> 01:30:21,082
in some cases
through these very technologies,

1643
01:30:21,165 --> 01:30:24,252
we can start to change the tide.
We can start to change the conversation.

1644
01:30:24,335 --> 01:30:27,004
It might sound strange,
but it's my world. It's my community.

1645
01:30:27,088 --> 01:30:29,632
I don't hate them. I don't wanna do
any harm to Google or Facebook.

1646
01:30:29,715 --> 01:30:32,885
I just want to reform them
so they don't destroy the world. You know?

1647
01:30:32,969 --> 01:30:35,513
I've uninstalled a ton of apps
from my phone

1648
01:30:35,596 --> 01:30:37,723
that I felt were just wasting my time.

1649
01:30:37,807 --> 01:30:40,685
All the social media apps,
all the news apps,

1650
01:30:40,768 --> 01:30:42,520
and I've turned off notifications

1651
01:30:42,603 --> 01:30:45,815
on anything that was vibrating my leg
with information

1652
01:30:45,898 --> 01:30:48,943
that wasn't timely and important to me
right now.

1653
01:30:49,026 --> 01:30:51,279
It's for the same reason
I don't keep cookies in my pocket.

1654
01:30:51,362 --> 01:30:53,197
Reduce the number of notifications
you get.

1655
01:30:53,281 --> 01:30:54,449
Turn off notifications.

1656
01:30:54,532 --> 01:30:55,950
Turning off all notifications.

1657
01:30:56,033 --> 01:30:58,536
I'm not using Google anymore,
I'm using Qwant,

1658
01:30:58,619 --> 01:31:01,497
which doesn't store your search history.

1659
01:31:01,581 --> 01:31:04,459
Never accept a video recommended to you
on YouTube.

1660
01:31:04,542 --> 01:31:07,003
Always choose.
That's another way to fight.

1661
01:31:07,086 --> 01:31:12,133
There are tons of Chrome extensions
that remove recommendations.

1662
01:31:12,216 --> 01:31:15,178
[interviewer] You're recommending
something to undo what you made.

1663
01:31:15,261 --> 01:31:16,554
[laughing] Yep.

1664
01:31:16,929 --> 01:31:21,642
Before you share, fact-check,
consider the source, do that extra Google.

1665
01:31:21,726 --> 01:31:25,104
If it seems like it's something designed
to really push your emotional buttons,

1666
01:31:25,188 --> 01:31:26,314
like, it probably is.

1667
01:31:26,397 --> 01:31:29,025
Essentially, you vote with your clicks.

1668
01:31:29,108 --> 01:31:30,359
If you click on clickbait,

1669
01:31:30,443 --> 01:31:33,779
you're creating a financial incentive
that perpetuates this existing system.

1670
01:31:33,863 --> 01:31:36,949
Make sure that you get
lots of different kinds of information

1671
01:31:37,033 --> 01:31:37,909
in your own life.

1672
01:31:37,992 --> 01:31:40,995
I follow people on Twitter
that I disagree with

1673
01:31:41,078 --> 01:31:44,207
because I want to be exposed
to different points of view.

1674
01:31:44,665 --> 01:31:46,584
Notice that many people
in the tech industry

1675
01:31:46,667 --> 01:31:49,045
don't give these devices
to their own children.

1676
01:31:49,128 --> 01:31:51,047
My kids don't use social media at all.

1677
01:31:51,839 --> 01:31:53,549
[interviewer] Is that a rule,
or is that a...

1678
01:31:53,633 --> 01:31:54,509
That's a rule.

1679
01:31:55,092 --> 01:31:57,845
We are zealots about it.

1680
01:31:57,929 --> 01:31:59,222
We're... We're crazy.

1681
01:31:59,305 --> 01:32:05,603
And we don't let our kids have
really any screen time.

1682
01:32:05,686 --> 01:32:08,564
I've worked out
what I think are three simple rules, um,

1683
01:32:08,648 --> 01:32:12,610
that make life a lot easier for families
and that are justified by the research.

1684
01:32:12,693 --> 01:32:15,571
So, the first rule is
all devices out of the bedroom

1685
01:32:15,655 --> 01:32:17,281
at a fixed time every night.

1686
01:32:17,365 --> 01:32:20,535
Whatever the time is, half an hour
before bedtime, all devices out.

1687
01:32:20,618 --> 01:32:24,038
The second rule is no social media
until high school.

1688
01:32:24,121 --> 01:32:26,374
Personally, I think the age should be 16.

1689
01:32:26,457 --> 01:32:28,960
Middle school's hard enough.
Keep it out until high school.

1690
01:32:29,043 --> 01:32:32,964
And the third rule is
work out a time budget with your kid.

1691
01:32:33,047 --> 01:32:34,757
And if you talk with them and say,

1692
01:32:34,840 --> 01:32:37,927
"Well, how many hours a day
do you wanna spend on your device?

1693
01:32:38,010 --> 01:32:39,637
What do you think is a good amount?"

1694
01:32:39,720 --> 01:32:41,597
they'll often say
something pretty reasonable.

1695
01:32:42,056 --> 01:32:44,642
Well, look, I know perfectly well

1696
01:32:44,725 --> 01:32:48,563
that I'm not gonna get everybody
to delete their social media accounts,

1697
01:32:48,646 --> 01:32:50,439
but I think I can get a few.

1698
01:32:50,523 --> 01:32:54,402
And just getting a few people
to delete their accounts matters a lot,

1699
01:32:54,485 --> 01:32:58,406
and the reason why is that that creates
the space for a conversation

1700
01:32:58,489 --> 01:33:00,908
because I want there to be enough people
out in the society

1701
01:33:00,992 --> 01:33:05,204
who are free of the manipulation engines
to have a societal conversation

1702
01:33:05,288 --> 01:33:07,540
that isn't bounded
by the manipulation engines.

1703
01:33:07,623 --> 01:33:10,126
So, do it! Get out of the system.

1704
01:33:10,209 --> 01:33:12,503
Yeah, delete. Get off the stupid stuff.

1705
01:33:13,546 --> 01:33:16,507
The world's beautiful.
Look. Look, it's great out there.

1706
01:33:17,258 --> 01:33:18,384
[laughs]

1707
01:33:21,971 --> 01:33:24,432
-[birds singing]
-[children playing and shouting]