Cyrene Debate

18:36 (Cyrene): Liliana says, "Hello. I have been in my bed for
over a day and a half reading through all the recent posts."
18:37 (Cyrene): Liliana says, "I would like to highlight a
couple of things that stuck out the most to me."
18:37 (Cyrene): You happily say, "Hi Lililili!"
18:37 (Cyrene): Baldazar says, "Correction 218."
18:37 (Cyrene): Galyleo says, "I haven't had my nuts in quite a
while."
18:37 (Cyrene): Liliana says, "First, one person mentioned
hearing a crying child, worrying about them."
18:37 (Cyrene): Darshadi says, "So that means there are 109
eunuchs out there somewhere?"
18:38 (Cyrene): Liliana says, "Second, I noticed current denizen
MORALE is the lowest it has ever been since we started measuring
such things."
18:38 (Cyrene): Ktakl says, "I've heard them here and there, as
well. Haven't ever been able to catch sight of the poor tyke."
18:39 (Cyrene): Freeling says, "What do you propose?"
18:40 (Cyrene): Liliana says, "My overall point being, yes, we
should mourn our dead, known and unknown alike. HOWEVER, we need
to tend to the needs of the living as well. People are tired,
hungry, and without shelter, in many cases. Our well-known
denizen vendors? They NEED our patronage, to take care of
whomever is in their circle that they tend, whether it be
surviving family, or a neighbor they took in because that person,
 unknown to us, is homeless."
18:40 (Cyrene): Maelyrra says, "Doing well, Cyrene?"
18:41 (Cyrene): Maelyrra says, "Ah."
18:41 (Cyrene): Ktakl says, "And I cannot fault them for their
low morale. It is kind of difficult to stay cheerful when we
have three piles of corpses waiting for graves, our main passage
into Sapience blocked off, and one of our most prized landmarks
scattered over Centre Crossing."
18:41 (Cyrene): Ktakl says, "But you are right. We should tend
to the needs of the living."
18:41 (Cyrene): Telendrieth says, "I did write missives to every
citizen I was able to. I believe we are already offering shelter
and food to those that are able to make it. Though I'm not
entirely sure how many have made it."
18:42 (Cyrene): Keorin says, "Very, very few."
18:42 (Cyrene): Baldazar says, "Yes but still. Anyways its paid.
Let me know btw what I can for you as an aide soon cause I feel
like I havent done much to serve you as an aide yet."
18:42 (Cyrene): Telendrieth says, "Aye.. I'm hesitant to admit
how many blankets were never even touched."
18:42 (Cyrene): Baldazar says, "Mistell."
18:42 (Cyrene): Freeling says, "Where is that?"
18:43 (Cyrene): Freeling says, "Sorry if I'm being ignorant,
maybe I don't mingle enough to hear all the news."
18:44 (Cyrene): Keorin says, "There's no sound in the streets,
there's not even people for mourning or funerals. I think the
death is worse then we'd ever thought."
18:44 (Cyrene): Liliana says, "One thing for which I always have
taken pride, Cyrene has -no orphans-. Every person in this city
has always found a family to adopt them, either as a child or
through marriage into an established family. It is not an
instant thing, but caring for everyone, blood family or not, is
a pretty awesome thing."
18:46 (Cyrene): Keorin says, "Well, we definitely have our
orphans now."
18:47 (Cyrene): Verrucht says, "We do for now, I am sure that
families will continue to take them in as they have and we
rebuild. As Liliana said, that has been part of our culture for
a long time."
18:47 (Cyrene): Freeling says, "I will draft some signs that
could help our survivors find the aid they need - if no one
objects."
18:47 (Cyrene): Liliana says, "Keorin, I am, technically, an
orphan, and I was adopted, to a wonderful family, that later
broke up, got divorced, but the greater family of Cyrene has
nurtured me through all of it."
18:48 (Cyrene): Liliana says, "Amadeo's two boys? They are
adopted."
18:48 (Cyrene): Ktakl says, "Please do so."
18:49 (Cyrene): Keorin says, "I mean, I'm an orphan too, though
I wasn't adopted, but that's not really my point."
18:49 (Cyrene): Keorin says, "Almost all Cyrenians are dead. We
will have orphans, and we can't just expect that families will
take them in, when there are almost no families left to."
18:50 (Cyrene): Freeling says, "I believe that the point is
although our city is amazing at it, it may take more time simply
because there are (possibly) so many. And perhaps we could
expedite the process."
18:52 (Cyrene): Ktakl says, "True. And there might be refugees
who still can't get back to the city, thanks to the tunnel being
collapsed. Not everyone has the strength to swim all the way
across the Muurn like we can."
18:52 (Cyrene): Mazel says, "How have we lost "almost all" of
our citizens? Our city is still thriving, considering all we've
been through."
18:52 (Cyrene): Telendrieth says, "Not even remotely Mazel."
18:52 (Cyrene): Keorin says, "The streets are empty, Mazel.
There isn't anyone."
18:53 (Cyrene): Thaisen says, "I thought estimates were near
ninety percent of citizens."
18:53 (Cyrene): Telendrieth says, "Aye."
18:53 (Cyrene): You say, "Yes."
18:53 (Cyrene): Keorin says, "Those are the best guesses I've
heard, yeah."
18:53 (Cyrene): Kayeil says, "Who provided that estimate?"
18:54 (Cyrene): Mazel says, "I second that question. Times like
this, "best guesses" aren't good enough."
18:55 (Cyrene): You say, "As I understand it, a Divine did,
through...non-regular means."
18:55 (Cyrene): Verrucht says, "If you're talking about insanity,
 maybe stop."
18:55 (Cyrene): Keorin says, "We know from just looking. The
streets are empty and quiet. There's no one at the graveyard
looking for the missing, there's no one holding funerals, or
mourning the dead."
18:55 (Cyrene): Mazel says, "Maybe they just did not invite you?"
18:55 (Cyrene): Kaden says, "Bodies have been washing up from
the lake and the guards have been working non-stop."
18:55 (Cyrene): Mazel says, "People mourning quietly sounds a
lot like no people."
18:55 (Cyrene): Kaden dryly says, "Not to mention all the
overtime pay Biagio is due after this is over."
18:55 (Cyrene): Ktakl says, "And nobody's clearing even a single
path in the streets. The snow is building up like we're in the
wilderness."
18:56 (Cyrene): Telendrieth says, "If you can't see the vast
number of citizens absent.."
18:56 (Cyrene): Keorin says, "And the bodies are the few that -
left- bodies. If you talk to our denizens, they'll tell you
about how the tide consumed them. Biagio mentioned that he had
helpers, who just disappeared for good."
18:56 (Cyrene): Liliana says, "One thing I would like to mention
on such things. When Cyrene was attacked and nearly destroyed by
a dragon, way, way, way back, some felt the city would never
recover, and the devastation was even worse than it is now."
18:56 (Cyrene): Tarvius says, "I dor off."
18:57 (Cyrene): Tarvius says, "Mis."
18:57 (Cyrene): Tarvius says, "Mis."
18:57 (Cyrene): Keorin says, "Ainghael's attack was bad, but it
wasn't like this."
18:57 (Cyrene): Verrucht says, "Arrangements have to been made
to both clear more room to expand the graveyard, clear the
tunnel and clear the streets."
18:57 (Cyrene): Kaden says, "Not to mention the souls that have
been used to restrain Blu..."
18:57 (Cyrene): Liliana says, "In my recent history, when the
Kashar attacked Sapience's coastline villages, their populations
were devastated. Once the Kashar were gone, their population
rebounded, quite quickly."
18:57 (Cyrene): Verrucht says, "Gaulth simply needs to get back
to me with the amount needed so I can deposit the gold,
althought the Foreman seemed to indicate he would begin before
that was necessary."
18:58 (Cyrene): Liliana says, "I more recent history, that is."
18:58 (Cyrene): Mazel says, "Out of curiosity, Keorin, how much
of Ainghael's attack did you witness?"
18:58 (Cyrene): Keorin says, "I've read the history. At least
then, there were citizens left to re-found the city."
18:58 (Cyrene): Baldazar says, "Trust me we will only come out
of this stronger and wiser. Thats been proven time and time
again."
18:59 (Cyrene): Mazel says, "Well, we still have a city. And
we'll bounce back."
18:59 (Cyrene): Keorin says, "We have lost nearly -everyone-. If
we're lucky, for every citizen left, there are another nine dead.
"
18:59 (Cyrene): Mazel says, "Looking at it going "well, we're
boned" helps no one."
18:59 (Cyrene): Freeling says, "I'm not sure it matters how many
died. We can see clearly that it was a horrifying number, we can
hear the silence in the streets, we KNOW there is devastation
everywhere and our city needs help. So lets give it in any way
we can."
19:00 (Cyrene): Freeling says, "We know Cyrene will overcome,
lets look to the future and DO what needs to be done, to
overcome."
19:00 (Cyrene): Keorin says, "Of course we'll rebuild. But we do
need to realise just how bad this is. This isn't the sort of
thing you "bounce back" from."
19:00 (Cyrene): Freeling says, "I believe that among other
things, that includes helping our citizens."
19:00 (Cyrene): Mazel says, "And with a Senator lamenting how
screwed we are, nonstop, it is not surprising that morale is low.
"
19:00 (Cyrene): Ktakl says, "We should also look for any
survivors that might have escaped the Tide. The sewers, the
wilderness, the Vashnars..."
19:00 (Cyrene): Freeling says, "Good idea."
19:00 (Cyrene): Navarr says, "Just throwing an idea out there....
how about setting up the ballroom in the imperium as a space for
survivors and orphans until the homes are rebuilt, it's a large
space that can be segmented up for privacy."
19:01 (Cyrene): Telendrieth says, "It's just disturbing to hear
our city is "Thriving" among all we are working through. It
seems like a delusional fantasy. Perhaps the loss has lead to
delusional coping?"
19:01 (Cyrene): Darshadi says, "Not a bad idea, Navarr."
19:01 (Cyrene): Liliana says, "Excellent idea Navarr."
19:01 (Cyrene): Keorin says, "Exactly, Telendrieth."
19:01 (Cyrene): Jinos says, "Any of you unsure about the loss of
life grab a shovel, and head to one of the many piles that need
to be buried. Start shoveling. Let us know when you're done with
them all. And keep in mind that is just a fraction on the whole
scope of the lives taken."
19:02 (Cyrene): Ktakl says, "That is a wise idea, Navarr. People
need a roof over their heads, especially in this weather."
19:02 (Cyrene): Mazel says, "I said considering all we went
through. No one expected us to be in THIS good of shape."
19:02 (Cyrene): Navarr says, "Was literally thinking about the
orphans earlier and then Freeling posted and helped spur the
idea, thank you Freeling."
19:02 (Cyrene): Keorin says, "Mazel, -what- good of shape?
Everyone is dead."
19:03 (Cyrene): Mazel says, "I really wish you'd stop saying
that, Keorin. Everyone is not dead, and those of us left are
looking to YOU for leadership. Not a pity party."
19:03 (Cyrene): Navarr says, "The Imperium, the inside of it in
any case, is still intact so there's plenty of space there for
survivors and orphans. The kitchens are nearby too to supply
food."
19:04 (Cyrene): Keorin sceptically says, "I can't believe that
anyone would suggest that mourning the dead is a "pity party"."
19:04 (Cyrene): Telendrieth says, "Some are quite delusional."
19:04 (Cyrene): Darshadi says, "There's no debate we took a
horrible hit. And we really don't know how bad. It is an
impossiblity that -every single citizen- of our city is dead. As
tightly as the 'Teth sealed the city, some had to have escaped.
Found a place where their tide could not reach. We need to find
these people. Period."
19:05 (Cyrene): Kaden says, "Are we really going to nitpick on
the meaning of the word everyone? From what I can tell, Keorin
is merely trying to drive home just how big our failure has been.
"
19:05 (Cyrene): Kaden says, "Yes, failure, we lost the city and
even though we've driven them back, we haven't completely
retaken it."
19:05 (Cyrene): Mazel says, "Keorin, you want to lead us on this
grand crusade against the other cities and start raiding for our
"safety". But everyone is dead, and there's no bouncing back."
19:05 (Cyrene): Kaden says, "Not yet. It's not our city, it's a
necropolis."
19:05 (Cyrene): Mazel says, "Either we're still a force in this
world, or we're doomed. You can't have it both ways."
19:06 (Cyrene): Baldazar says, "Keorin you did an amazing job as
leader of the resistance. Thought I admit we need to mourn those
that we lost and never forget them. But we still have a lot to
do. And we do need to think positive how hard that even is right
now. Remember the war isnt over yet. And as I said we will come
stronger out of this."
19:06 (Cyrene): Kayeil says, "Our failure? You do remember that
during the last Wave the Tsol'teth weren't exactly a force we
could content with? It took Parni to handle that mess if I'm not
mistaken?"
19:06 (Cyrene): Kaden says, "Yes, our failure. I was in the
thick of the fighting when we got driven out."
19:07 (Cyrene): Keorin says, "Then you aren't listening, Mazel.
We aren't doomed, not at all. but we're not going to be able to
rebuild things if we don't sit down and realise how many
Cyrenians we lost. This will not "just work out", it's going to
take very hard work."
19:07 (Cyrene): Kaden says, "And my assessment was that while
the odds were stacked against us, we could've defended if we'd
been more prepared, more disciplined."
19:07 (Cyrene): Verrucht says, "Hindsight."
19:07 (Cyrene): Kaden says, "Aye, hindisght."
19:07 (Cyrene): Kaden says, "And no use crying over spilt milk."
19:07 (Cyrene): Keorin says, "Kaden's quite right. The battle
was winnable, and it's why we need to make sure this never
happens again."
19:08 (Cyrene): Kaden says, "But that doesn't mean we don't have
a lot of things we owe the dead."
19:08 (Cyrene): Darshadi says, "You're right, Kaden. We weren't
prepared. We were taken by surprise. And all we can do now is
learn from that."
19:08 (Cyrene): Ktakl says, "In that case, we should get to that
work. Our city was not built on frolicking and pastries, as the
Mhaldorians so mockingly put it."
19:08 (Cyrene): Kayeil says, "Prepare for a surprise attack
against an enemy we could not defeat before with allies at our
side that had time to plan and become better?"
19:08 (Cyrene): Freeling impishly says, "But maybe they're the
sticky glue that holds us together."
19:08 (Cyrene): Freeling says, "Never underestimate pastries."
19:08 (Cyrene): Telendrieth says, "We've learned a major
weakness, if nothing else."
19:08 (Cyrene): Kaden says, "No prepare for any attack and be
able to adapt and act as the situation demands."
19:09 (Cyrene): Kaden says, "Some of our then allies tried to
organise then but a lot of our defenders were split into bands
doing their own thing."
19:09 (Cyrene): Keorin says, "Our leadership and army was in
chaos during the battle. We knew they were raising shrines, and
we knew that was probably going to mean something bad, but we
did nothing to stop it. A better trained force could have dealt
with what they threw at us, even if it would've been difficult."
19:09 (Cyrene): Ktakl says, "True. It might not be the
foundation, but pastries certainly help."
19:09 (Cyrene): Telendrieth says, "Dividing them strains their
mental faculties. Leaving them no quarter and struggling without
the support they always had makes them extremely unstable."
19:09 (Cyrene): Mazel says, "Okay, let's say I accept your claim
that the battle was winnable. If everyone is dead, how do you
plan to succeed in provoking the lowlanders with no strength
behind it?"
19:10 (Cyrene): Ktakl says, "Yes. The tsol'teth seem absolutely
terrified of isolation."
19:10 (Cyrene): Mazel says, "You wanna rebuild, you wanna fight.
We can't do both. By your own admission, we don't have the
people to do both."
19:10 (Cyrene): Keorin says, "Mazel, there's a difference
between our fighting forces and the average citizens, obviously."
19:10 (Cyrene): Navarr says, "Very very good point Ktakl."
19:10 (Cyrene): Telendrieth says, "Because a brunt of the
strength of Cyrene lies with those blessed by the Dragon's Soul."
19:10 (Cyrene): Mazel says, "So which is more important? Are you
a Senator or a resistance commander?"
19:11 (Cyrene): Mazel says, "There is, and the common citizens
will be the ones suffer when we start suffering monthly raids."
19:11 (Cyrene): Telendrieth says, "If you think our regular
citizenry makes up the base fighting force, you really should
step out of your orchard."
19:11 (Cyrene): Mazel says, "If you think only soldiers die in a
raid, you should really open your eyes."
19:11 (Cyrene): Keorin says, "It was our fighters who were out
of the city and survived the occupation."
19:12 (Cyrene): Kaden says, "I think the Tsol'teth are still out
there."
19:12 (Cyrene): Telendrieth says, "They are."
19:12 (Cyrene): Kaden says, "More, I know Targossas and Hashan
remain allied to them and are a hostile force."
19:12 (Cyrene): Mazel says, "And where do you think the guards
we have NOW came from? They weren't magicked out of nothing."
19:12 (Cyrene): Keorin says, "Should we just pray that no enemy
ever comes that could do this again? Rebuilding means making
sure that we can protect anyone else who comes to live here."
19:12 (Cyrene): Mazel says, "We don't have reserves. We're in
them."
19:12 (Cyrene): Darshadi says, "So what do you suggest, Mazel.
We give up?"
19:13 (Cyrene): Darshadi says, "Just leave the city and fade
away?"
19:13 (Cyrene): Mazel says, "People in glass houses shouldn't
throw stones. We're in one hell of a glass house, and Keorin
wants to throw a boulder."
19:13 (Cyrene): Keorin says, "We have a chance to rebuild
stronger. Right now, we have allies who will help us if we're
attacked. We need to use this chance to learn to stand on our
own."
19:13 (Cyrene): Navarr says, "Well I'm going to do something a
sew up a heap of blankets and put them in the ballroom for
survivors to keep warm."
19:13 (Cyrene): Verrucht says, "Why would people build glass
houses, that's just poor design choice."
19:13 (Cyrene): Thaisen says, "For the view."
19:13 (Cyrene): Ktakl says, "I dunno, glass houses are good for
growing plants."
19:14 (Cyrene): Verrucht says, "And then, if you did take the
time to build one why would you throw a rock in it?!"
19:14 (Cyrene): Mazel says, "I dunno, Verrucht. Seems senseless
and violent."
19:15 (Cyrene): Keorin says, "Mazel, you're suggesting that we
do nothing. That we just hope that nothing like this can happen
again, that people will want to live here knowing that we aren't
strong enough to defend our way of life when it counts."
19:15 (Cyrene): Mazel says, "When you'd be better served
reinforcing your walls."
19:15 (Cyrene): Mazel says, "I'm not suggesting we do nothing.
I'm suggesting we get our city back to defensible before we go
seeking out extra fights."
19:16 (Cyrene): Keorin says, "Right now, we have allies to
defend us, just like we helped them during the days of the
resistance."
19:16 (Cyrene): Jinos says, "The Tsol'teth and their allies
aren't going to wait for us to get on our feet..."
19:16 (Cyrene): Tasus says, "What hope would reinforced walls
have after seeing what the Tsol'teth have done? They hold no
defensive measure against them. Rebuild, yes, but after the war
is won. Only then will we even have a chance at bringing Cyrene
to what she was before then."
19:16 (Cyrene): Keorin says, "We should train while we have
those allies, so that we can stand on our own once they're gone."
19:17 (Cyrene): Mazel says, "No, we should rebuild while we have
this augmented fighting force, THEN train when their loyalties
inevitably waver."
19:17 (Cyrene): Liliana says, "Take care everyone. I shall
return as soon as I can."
19:17 (Cyrene): Jinos says, "Be well Liliana."
19:17 (Cyrene): Mazel says, "If we defeat everyone but our
allies, our allies will turn on us if we are still in this state.
 They are not our friends, and they can only be trusted as far
as today."
19:18 (Cyrene): Keorin says, "Even more of a reason why we
should learn to stand on our own now."
19:18 (Cyrene): Tasus says, "Mazel, you have no mind for
strategy. If we use what time we have now to rebuild, but our
forces lack in strength or ability, all of the rebuilding will
be for nothing."
19:18 (Cyrene): Keorin says, "If you don't think we can trust
our allies, you shouldn't want us to -have- to rely on them for
any safety."
19:19 (Cyrene): Mazel says, "If we antagonize half the planet
and have no home to return to, the training is for naught."
19:19 (Cyrene): Darshadi says, "I don't see we have much choice.
We've a responsibility to what citizens remain. We have to
rebuild as best we can right now..which means shelter, not
luxuries like the Clocktower..and at the same time train up to
fight. It's not going to be easy. But then, if it's easy is it
worth doing?"
19:19 (Cyrene): Keorin says, "Well said, Darshadi."
19:20 (Cyrene): Keorin says, "They're already against us, Mazel.
Avoiding fighting didn't stop Mhaldor from coming after us.
Hashan is raiding us now, too, because they know we're weak."
19:20 (Cyrene): Mazel says, "Hashan is raiding us because we
made a statement."
19:20 (Cyrene): Tasus says, "What half of the planet are we
antagonizing, though? Hashan and Targossas? Mhaldor? Mhaldor has
always been an issue, and Hashan and Targossas are becoming one
now."
19:20 (Cyrene): Keorin says, "They raided us the month after we
got our city back."
19:20 (Cyrene): Telendrieth says, "There is also a bit of a
fallacy. It seems like you are assuming that these citystates
are only going to retaliate. They are already striking at us.
Hell.. Sometimes all three have been in Cyrene at the same time."
19:20 (Cyrene): Mazel says, "So we drive them out."
19:20 (Cyrene): Darshadi says, "I'm not advocating poking
anthills with a stick. But when they come knocking...and they
will..we have to be ready. I know nothing of combat. But I'm
willing to learn."
19:21 (Cyrene): Mazel says, "Those little kids crying cuz
they're cold and alone don't give two flips if you're halfways
across the contient fighting for them. They care that they're
cold and alone."
19:21 (Cyrene): Briella says, "Hashan raids us because their
Master's tell them to."
19:21 (Cyrene): Keorin says, "Exactly, Briella. We're still in
the middle of a war."
19:22 (Cyrene): Tasus says, "No. Hashan is raiding us because
they know we are weak. They are raiding because they expect
Cyrenians to roll over and do nothing. How do you intend to
drive anyone out if you don't know how to do it? I don't mean to
state the obvious, and I don't wish to hurt feelings, but Cyrene,
 as a whole, requires a lot more training to even hope to stand
against the forces still coming."
19:22 (Cyrene): Keorin says, "And if we can't protect those
children the next time, Mazel, then what are we even here for?"
19:22 (Cyrene): Briella says, "There is no stating what the
Tsol'teth plan to do, they may settle here and be a constant
source of conflict. We are at war."
19:22 (Cyrene): Mazel says, "We live in the freakin mountains.
If we don't rebuild, they're dead anyway."
19:23 (Cyrene): Keorin says, "We have shelter to offer the few
who are left. We're already working on that."
19:23 (Cyrene): Mazel says, "Your stance makes sense for the
leader of the military, Keorin. But you're not allowed to just
be that anymore."
19:23 (Cyrene): Ktakl says, "In my humble opinion, we should
ensure that we can protect our own borders first. And THEN, if
the others persist in their idiocy, we make retaliatory strikes."
19:23 (Cyrene): Keorin says, "Do you really think that wanting
to be able to protect the city is only the stance of the
military, Mazel?"
19:24 (Cyrene): Laedha says, "Greetings, Cyrene."
19:24 (Cyrene): Verrucht says, "Those of you who are speaking
now, please feel free to post your thoughts as well if you wish."
19:24 (Cyrene): Verrucht says, "More voices are good, and more
people will hear you in posts."
19:24 (Cyrene): Verrucht says, "Not trying to stop the
conversation at all."
19:24 (Cyrene): Mazel says, "I think "a good offense is the best
defense" is the stance of someone who wants an excuse to go on
the offense."
19:24 (Cyrene): Verrucht says, "Just pointing out that posting
is also very good, and people should go for it."
19:24 (Cyrene): Verrucht says, "Greetings, Laedha!"
19:24 (Cyrene): Zadkiel says, "Hi Sis."
19:24 (Cyrene): You say, "Hello, Laedha."
19:24 (Cyrene): Keorin says, "I don't want a good offense, I
want us to be able to promise the people who have chosen to live
here that we can defend them."
19:24 (Cyrene): Keorin says, "Good to see you, Laedha!"
19:25 (Cyrene): Darshadi says, "Verrucht is right. People who
aren't awake right now will want to at least be informed of this
conversation after the echoes of it fade."
19:25 (Cyrene): Mazel says, "You want to raid people for the
defense of the city. so, yeah, you do."
19:25 (Cyrene): Telendrieth says, "Her position being FOR
raiding isn't all encompassing of her platform. I'm not for
raiding myself."
19:26 (Cyrene): Ktakl says, "I also believe that going on the
offensive is not to be our first option. We are a city that was
founded on the ideals of peace, and staying away from the idiocy
and constant squabbles of the lowland. But sometimes, the
lowlanders might need a kick in the teeth to convince them that
we mean business."
19:26 (Cyrene): Telendrieth says, "It is a small aspect of it
that is being honed in on, as if it somehow invalidates the rest.
"
19:26 (Cyrene): Ktakl says, "If we do raid, it should only be as
long as it takes to get our point across."
19:27 (Cyrene): Keorin says, "Mazel, you should try opening your
eyes and ears. You're saying that we're thriving, that the city
is going to just bounce back. And you're pretending that my
point is what you want to argue against, instead of what I'm
saying."
19:27 (Cyrene): Darshadi says, "But it is an undeniable fact
that, at some point, we will have to go on the offensive. Be it
against one of the traitor cities or against the 'Teth's
compound in the Pash, Cyrenians will have to be part of the
assault."
19:28 (Cyrene): Mazel says, "So you're saying you don't want to
raid Hashan for the good of Cyrene?"
19:28 (Cyrene): Mazel says, "Or Targ, or Mhaldor?"
19:28 (Cyrene): Keorin says, "I'm angry, but I don't want
revenge, revenge is useless. And I don't want to go out and try
to prove a point. There's no point we could make that hasn't
been made a dozen times over by our graveyard."
19:28 (Cyrene): Keorin says, "I want us to -train-. To be able
to defend our home. So that as we're rebuilding, the people who
come here, the people who stay here, can trust that we won't let
this happen again."
19:29 (Cyrene): Darshadi says, "As we saw when we retook the
city, the best way to defeat the 'Teth is to go after them on
multiple fronts. So that they can't reinforce each other and are
forced to fight individually instead of as a collective."
19:29 (Cyrene): Ktakl says, "If we do strike at the lowlanders,
I only wish to do so enough to get our point across. We are not
a people found on war or vengeance."
19:29 (Cyrene): Eril says, "Greetings, Cyrene."
19:29 (Cyrene): You say, "Greetings, Sir Eril."
19:30 (Cyrene): Mazel says, "No, you don't want to train. You
want to fight. You're not advocating training sessions, or
battle formations. Hell, we don't have guides for our new
citizens to learn their classes."
19:30 (Cyrene): Laedha says, "Hello Eril."
19:30 (Cyrene): Tasus says, "Hello, Chief. Hell of a time to
wake up."
19:30 (Cyrene): Mazel says, "The sad fact is we're doing less
training than we do for a CTF, and you want to go out and fight."
19:30 (Cyrene): Mazel says, "Hello, Eril."
19:30 (Cyrene): Keorin says, "Actually, I've been advocating all
of those things. This is what I mean by not listening."
19:30 (Cyrene): Mroxyl says, "Hi Eril."
19:31 (Cyrene): Darshadi says, "I."
19:31 (Cyrene): Darshadi says, "Er, sorry."
19:31 (Cyrene): Mazel says, "I heard you training a lot when we
were the Resistance. Ever since we got the city back, you want
to make a statement so no one thinks we're week."
19:31 (Cyrene): Mazel says, "The same kind of chest puffery
Verrucht said we didn't want to do."
19:31 (Cyrene): Keorin says, "Mazel, you're just ignoring me now.
"
19:31 (Cyrene): Mazel says, "Ahem, weak."
19:31 (Cyrene): Eril says, "He, didn't want to do."
19:32 (Cyrene): Keorin says, "You seem to be imagining some
person arguing for revenge, to fight and kill just to strike
back. I have said over and over again that's not what I want."
19:32 (Cyrene): Mazel says, "I never said revenge. I said you
don't want to seem weak."
19:32 (Cyrene): Keorin says, "But when I tell you what I want,
you tell me that I'm wrong, that I really want what -you- think
I want, because that's what you want to argue against."
19:33 (Cyrene): Laedha says, "To clarify, is there any current
policy banning Cyrenians from joining in raids right now? Like
the ones organized by the White Wave?"
19:33 (Cyrene): Eril says, "No."
19:33 (Cyrene): Keorin says, "Well, that's unclear, Laedha. We
actually have no written law about raiding in general."
19:33 (Cyrene): Keorin says, "Funny enough, I don't think we
ever have."
19:33 (Cyrene): Verrucht says, "Nor do we need one."
19:34 (Cyrene): Eril says, "Because the unwritten law is
enforced even more fiercely then the written."
19:34 (Cyrene): Kaden says, "People seem to think that it's
against the law to raid but I have it on authority from a former
Imperiate that it has been considered i the past."
19:34 (Cyrene): Tasus says, "Any Cyrenian that wants to train
for group encounters needs to send me a message. I'll help any
and all that want it."
19:34 (Cyrene): Kaden says, "And even attempted, though not
during my time."
19:34 (Cyrene): Verrucht says, "No, because it violates the city
oath, Senator Eril."
19:34 (Cyrene): Eril says, "How."
19:34 (Cyrene): Verrucht says, "I've explained it to you before,
I don't care to again right now."
19:35 (Cyrene): Eril says, "Have you ever considered that
inactivity, compromises our sanctity."
19:35 (Cyrene): Keorin sceptically says, "It's not written down
because, as usual, it's a law that some members of the senate
want to be able to enforce however they personally feel like."
19:35 (Cyrene): Laedha says, "Table VI makes it clear that we
will behave honourably and not attack unless provoked. I suppose
the question is what counts as provocation."
19:35 (Cyrene): Mazel says, "Well, isn't that the point of the
meeting?"
19:35 (Cyrene): Mazel says, "Everyone here swore an oath to
abide by the decisions of our leaders."
19:36 (Cyrene): Mazel says, "Written or no, if the Senate says
no the answer is no."
19:36 (Cyrene): Jinos thoughtfully says, "Mazel. Not once have I
see you during any training Keorin has put us through. Training
that helped a good portion of us take on the Tsol'teth when we
reclaimed our city. Don't undermine the hard work people have
been putting into helping us fight."
19:36 (Cyrene): Roselie says, "I mean, the Tables ARE our law."
19:36 (Cyrene): Roselie says, "So I have to agree with Laedha."
19:36 (Cyrene): Eril says, "We have been provoked many times."
19:36 (Cyrene): Eril says, "It is the complete and utter
unwillingness of some, that restricts it to all."
19:37 (Cyrene): Keorin says, "Nine-tenths of Cyrenians are dead."
19:37 (Cyrene): Mazel says, "Jinos, I had reasons why I could
not participate in those training sessions that I cannot discuss
over CT but would be happy to discuss with you privately. I am
not denigrating the hard work of everyone, I am saying that
there is a difference between training and launching an
offensive war on Targossas and Hashan."
19:37 (Cyrene): Eril says, "I ask Cyrene."
19:38 (Cyrene): Keorin says, "I think it's fair to say that
we've been more then provoked."
19:38 (Cyrene): Darshadi says, "I do have to agree with Sir Eril
here. Each and every time we are raided...by whom is irrelevant
to this point...is a provocation."
19:38 (Cyrene): Eril says, "Do none of you consider the invasion
and conquering of our home, and then the subsequent service to
those who held it, a provocation?"
19:38 (Cyrene): Tasus says, "Definitely. It is a provocation."
19:39 (Cyrene): Eril says, "The attempts to stop us as we fought
to retake it. The attempts to hamper us from driving back the
tide."
19:39 (Cyrene): Eril says, "Deliberate."
19:39 (Cyrene): Eril says, "Are they provocations?"
19:39 (Cyrene): Thaisen says, "If it isn't, I'm not sure what is.
"
19:39 (Cyrene): Mroxyl says, "Raiding Mhaldor would be rather
pointless, as they'd likely be happy to see it. Hashan and
Targossas would be different, as they allied to the Tsol'teth."
19:40 (Cyrene): Verrucht says, "Every provocation does not have
the same response, that's why the city will meet to discuss it
and why we are inviting conversation on the boards."
19:40 (Cyrene): Eril says, "I do not disagree with you there
Mroxyl."
19:40 (Cyrene): Eril says, "Mhaldor is a nuisance, the real
problem this city faces to it's very existence, is the Tsol'teth
and their subsequent allies."
19:41 (Cyrene): Darshadi says, "I believe Sir Eril to be correct.
 HOWEVER, at this moment in time we as a city can't sucessfully
raid an orchard for the fruit within, much less another city.
And the only way to remedy that is by training while we rebuild
what we can under the circumstances."
19:41 (Cyrene): Eril says, "I do agree with that Darshadi."
19:41 (Cyrene): Mazel says, "The real problem we face is a
betrayal of everything we stand for. Every time you compromise
your ethics, the next compromise becomes that much easier."
19:42 (Cyrene): Eril says, "How do we compromise our ethics."
19:42 (Cyrene): Kaden says, "I'm sorry, but I have to ask what
are we compromising exactly?"
19:42 (Cyrene): Laedha says, "Adapting to circumstances is not
the same thing as compromising. Our ethos is that we will not
attack unless directly provoked, so as a group we need to decide
how to apply that."
19:42 (Cyrene): Roselie says, "We don't initiate conflict, is
our Ethos."
19:42 (Cyrene): Eril says, "We have not initiated this."
19:43 (Cyrene): Darshadi says, "Roselie is correct. We don't
start the fight. We finish it."
19:43 (Cyrene): Tasus says, "In other news, I need someone to
hold fragments."
19:43 (Cyrene): Roselie says, "And at the end of this, I just
want to be able to hold my head up, and say that we never
compromised our principles."
19:43 (Cyrene): Jinos thoughtfully says, "Well, correct me if
I'm wrong Mazel, but you questioned our training. Which you
admit you haven't been around for. If you had then you'd know
that Keorin is not a warmonger, and has often tried to be the
voice of reason. And still continues to be even as both our War
Minister, and Senator."
19:43 (Cyrene): Kayeil says, "Our city's ethos on defence does
say that we take considerable pride in our fierce commitment to
our city's safety and well-being. I think in this case it is
what made changing the city's stance at least for now towards
those three city's warranted. We have to protect who is left,
what is left of the city, and our Guardian dragon Blu."
19:44 (Cyrene): Roselie says, "Yes, we will defend, we just do
not initiate, or raid."
19:44 (Cyrene): Eril says, "This conflict was initiated by
others."
19:44 (Cyrene): Eril says, "It has begun."
19:44 (Cyrene): Eril says, "It continues to rage."
19:44 (Cyrene): Roselie says, "And when they attack, we will
defend."
19:44 (Cyrene): Mazel says, "I made a clear delineation between
how Keorin led the resistance and how she wants to lead the
city's military, Jinos. And the voice of reason doesn't use
children to justify aggressive combat actions."
19:45 (Cyrene): Eril says, "And when they don't? Sit on our
hands?"
19:45 (Cyrene): Kaden says, "I seem to remember I wasn't the
only Cyrenian in Mhaldor during the Bal'met event."
19:45 (Cyrene): Telendrieth says, "Some understand our ethos to
mean that we allow our population to nearly exterminated and
then turn the other cheek. While I value our ethos, there will
be moments in history that holding our head up could mean we let
thousands perish."
19:45 (Cyrene): Kaden says, "So I have to wonder if it's only
okay for us to be raiding other cities if we're doing it in
concert with the other city-states?"
19:45 (Cyrene): Darshadi says, "So what do you suggest, Mazel?
We do nothing?"
19:45 (Cyrene): Keorin says, "I've let my frustrations get the
better of me, and so I'm gunna quiet down. Sorry about that
everyone."
19:45 (Cyrene): Verrucht says, "Changing who we are because of
that adversity might mean they perished for nothing, Telendrieth.
"
19:45 (Cyrene): Kaden says, "Because it seems like we're just
arguing over degrees here."
19:46 (Cyrene): Telendrieth says, "It could also mean they live
too, Imperiate."
19:46 (Cyrene): Mazel says, "My answer is the same as the last
time you asked the exact same question, Darshadi."
19:46 (Cyrene): Verrucht says, "Everyone who lived in Cyrene
lived here because they believed in what we stood for."
19:46 (Cyrene): Verrucht says, "Don't forget that, either."
19:46 (Cyrene): Kayeil says, "I don't feel the necessity to raid
now, but should circumstances change where it becomes more
apparent for some reason that it must be done I wouldn't oppose
it. As Kaden mentions the Bal'met event, there was a point in
time where it did make sense for everyone to storm in Mhaldor
and raid them. It did not last for the entirety of the event,
however."
19:46 (Cyrene): Roselie says, "I would hope so, I would hope we
all live here because we value our way of life here."
19:46 (Cyrene): Verrucht says, "I'm not right not advocating any
stance, but don't forget that."
19:46 (Cyrene): Darshadi says, "Then enlighten me again, because
I missed it."
19:47 (Cyrene): Keorin says, "But I do want to say one last
thing, Mazel. I've lead our forces for some time, and through
that time, I've constantly argued that we should be focusing in
on training, and on restructuring our military. I've been
holding and pushing training for years, and I was planning to
finish up a project to organise that before this hit."
19:47 (Cyrene): Eril says, "Senator Keorin."
19:47 (Cyrene): Zadkiel says, "The only thing that remains the
same is change."
19:48 (Cyrene): Eril says, "Who led the training of our forces
to prepare for the raid to retake Cyrene."
19:48 (Cyrene): Keorin says, "I don't mean any offense by this,
but I've never seen you at that training, Mazel. If you want to
know what we do, I hope you'll join in the next times."
19:49 (Cyrene): Keorin says, "In the meantime, the resistance
clan has several of the older lessons I've held recorded. They
cover a lot of the basics of group fighting, and if anyone's
curious and feels like a bit of reading, they should be pretty
darn helpful."
19:50 (Cyrene): Mazel says, "I have trained for many years to
become a better combatant, and I always step up to fight for our
city when I can. I have already discussed why I cannot discuss
recent events. If you wish not to cause offense, I'll thank you
not to rehash it."
19:50 (Cyrene): Eril says, "Cyrene has always been a city
opposed to militancy of most means."
19:50 (Cyrene): Eril says, "If the fight is not in defense, it's
not meant to happen, according to the decisions of our past."
19:51 (Cyrene): Roselie says, "Cyrene was founded by Runewardens,
 remember their House Eril? The Cerulean Spire? I never remember
them complaining about not being able to fight."
19:51 (Cyrene): Kaden says, "Hahahahah."
19:51 (Cyrene): Eril says, "And I'm sure you were around to hear
exactly what and how they felt, aye?"
19:51 (Cyrene): Verrucht says, "I was."
19:51 (Cyrene): Kaden says, "I'm sorry, but I remember a lot of
Runies complaining."
19:51 (Cyrene): Roselie says, "I was too."
19:51 (Cyrene): Roselie says, "I'm kinda old."
19:51 (Cyrene): Eril says, "You were both here, when this city
was founded."
19:51 (Cyrene): Eril says, "Were you?"
19:52 (Cyrene): Kaden says, "They probably just didn't feel like
they had a voice."
19:52 (Cyrene): Kayeil says, "They were here for the Wardens of
the Cerulean Spire."
19:52 (Cyrene): Eril says, "As combatants have historically not
Kaden."
19:52 (Cyrene): Eril says, "Because combat is not a valued
commodity in Cyrene."
19:52 (Cyrene): Kayeil says, "And to be fair, Verrucht is nearly
as old as this city is."
19:52 (Cyrene): Kaden says, "I've known a lot of Wardens in my
time, a lot of them moved to the Shield when we were building up
the House."
19:52 (Cyrene): Verrucht says, "It is, it's just not more valued
that the other commodities people offer, Eril."
19:52 (Cyrene): Eril says, "No, it's not Verrucht."
19:53 (Cyrene): Kaden says, "They learned to keep the
frustrations pent up."
19:53 (Cyrene): Verrucht says, "You say that, but you're wrong.
Many concessions have been made time and again for the
combatants of Cyrene, especially recently."
19:53 (Cyrene): Kaden says, "A lot of our combatants did."
19:53 (Cyrene): Verrucht says, "What we have never conceded is
who we are."
19:53 (Cyrene): Roselie says, "Exactly."
19:53 (Cyrene): Eril says, "And how is that."
19:53 (Cyrene): Verrucht says, "Your revisionist history is
diverting, but not really applicable here."
19:54 (Cyrene): Eril says, "Your personal ambition and desire to
shape Cyrene as you wish and will it to be, is also not
applicable to the reality we now face."
19:54 (Cyrene): Verrucht says, "People forget that there was a
time that the Wardens were a major political force that held
most of the Senate."
19:54 (Cyrene): Verrucht says, "They very well could have made
raiding a thing, but they didn't because they respected what
Cyrene was."
19:54 (Cyrene): Kayeil says, "Correct me if I'm wrong but at the
time wasn't Eril Shallamese and Kaden was in the Arcane Kindred?"
19:54 (Cyrene): Roselie says, "I think this is before Eril was
born."
19:55 (Cyrene): Eril says, "Excuse me."
19:55 (Cyrene): Eril says, "But the two who want to talk about
my presence."
19:55 (Cyrene): Roselie says, "And Kaden was in the ARcane
Kindred, yes."
19:55 (Cyrene): Verrucht says, "You speak of my personal
ambition to shape, but you are the person advocating for the
most change."
19:55 (Cyrene): Eril says, "Couldn't be bothered to take to the
field when Cyrene had fallen."
19:55 (Cyrene): Kaden says, "Kindred was till my 30s, rogue for
most of my life before the Shield."
19:55 (Cyrene): Kaden says, "That doesn't change the fact I've
heard Wardens complain."
19:55 (Cyrene): Tarvius says, "Cyrene has had a long history go
great combatants. Griffel was unparalleled in his time. Many
others came before and after. As far as people complaining, they
complain in every city."
19:55 (Cyrene): Verrucht says, "Don't forget Septerra."
19:56 (Cyrene): Eril says, "You are advocating for no change
Verrucht."
19:56 (Cyrene): Verrucht says, "Sir Style Blades."
19:56 (Cyrene): Kayeil says, "Do you speak of me? I was not able
to be here because of very emergent circumstances that I cannot
speak of here, otherwise I would've been here just like the rest
of you as I have been here for almost every major disaster and
event in my lifetime."
19:56 (Cyrene): Verrucht says, "I'm not advocating for any
position currently."
19:56 (Cyrene): Kaden says, "I didn't say all the Wardens did,
unlike what had been implied."
19:56 (Cyrene): Eril says, "And you speak of me being Shallamese,
 as if my service to Shallam has anything to do with my service
to Cyrene."
19:56 (Cyrene): Verrucht says, "I'm doing my best to let the
citizens post and let their voices be heard before we meet."
19:57 (Cyrene): Roselie says, "I think out of respect for each
other, calling people out who weren't able to be here is
behavior unworthy of Cyrenians."
19:57 (Cyrene): Laedha says, "Artificially deepening a split
between combatants and non-combatants will not help us get
anywhere. Our question is what is the best approach to both
preserve our ethos and defeat the tsol'teth. We can disagree on
what that approach is without insulting each other."
19:57 (Cyrene): Kaden says, "What Houses we were part of doesn't
have any bearings to our Statements."
19:57 (Cyrene): Keorin says, "Agreed, Laedha."
19:57 (Cyrene): Eril says, "And I think dismissing the opinions
and statements of others for not being alive, is also unworthy
of being Cyrenians."
19:58 (Cyrene): Roselie says, "I haven't heard anyone dismiss
anyone's opinions."
19:58 (Cyrene): Roselie says, "Timelines are just facts, not
opinions."
19:58 (Cyrene): Darshadi says, "It doesn't take much research to
see that over the years Cyrene has fought when the fight was
forced upon it. And when it -did- fight it offered no quarter. I
see no difference between the city's history and now."
19:58 (Cyrene): Keorin says, "I feel like we're all letting this
get into personal issues, a bit too much, Senators."
19:58 (Cyrene): Roselie says, "Well said Darshadi."
19:59 (Cyrene): Eril says, "I would agree, and I apologize for
the shot I took at those who were not present to aid the
resistance, I am sure that it was a trying time, and if you
could have been, you would have been on the field yourselves."
19:59 (Cyrene): Kaden says, "I will say this one thing."
19:59 (Cyrene): Verrucht says, "I didn't take anything from such
a comment, personally."
19:59 (Cyrene): Kaden says, "I have always found it weird."
19:59 (Cyrene): Kayeil says, "You entirely misinterpreted what I
was trying to say Eril, but I'm not going to nitpick over when
this discussion has been going for quite a while now already."
19:59 (Cyrene): Kaden says, "When our non-combatants attempt to
speak for the combat community."
20:00 (Cyrene): Keorin says, "Personally, I see two things in
front of us right now. We need to rebuild our city, first and
foremost. And we need to make sure that a tragedy like this can -
never- happen to us again."
20:00 (Cyrene): Eril says, "Oh it feels bloody weird Kaden."
20:00 (Cyrene): Kayeil says, "I find it weird when the combat
community tries to silence the non-combat community as if their
incapable of forming opinions through observation."
20:00 (Cyrene): Eril says, "Oh Kayeil."
20:00 (Cyrene): Eril says, "In this city, the opposite is more
true then that is."
20:00 (Cyrene): Kayeil says, "Eril, I don't recall you being a
combatant."
20:01 (Cyrene): Evanston says, "Eril is."
20:01 (Cyrene): Eril says, "I'm not, I'm agreeing with Kaden, it
feels bloody weird."
20:01 (Cyrene): Kaden says, "We're getting personal again."
20:01 (Cyrene): Eril says, "But, when I see something that needs
to be advocated for, I advocate for it, even if it is the
minority."
20:01 (Cyrene): Kaden says, "I am just saying that because I
always notice people."
20:01 (Cyrene): Mazel says, "I'm bothered by the idea that if
you're not in the Shield, you're not a combatant."
20:01 (Cyrene): Zadkiel says, "Bickering is just what the
Tsol'teth want."
20:01 (Cyrene): Phaestus says, "Enough."
20:02 (Cyrene): Tasus says, "Hail, Lord Phaestus."
20:02 (Cyrene): Torial says, "Hi hi Cyrene!"
20:02 (Cyrene): Phaestus says, "You worse than squabbling
children, I swear."
20:02 (Cyrene): Eril says, "Aye Lord, apologies for the display."
20:02 (Cyrene): Neraeos says, "I find it weird that all these
condescending and baiting comments continue to fill the city
communications. You can all have a bit of respect for each other
and speak civilly."
20:02 (Cyrene): Torial says, "Hail Lord Phaestus."
20:02 (Cyrene): Stefana says, "Greetings, Lord Phaestus, and
good morning Torial."
20:02 (Cyrene): Zadkiel says, "Hail, Lord Pheastus."
20:02 (Cyrene): Roselie says, "Greetings Father."
20:02 (Cyrene): Evanston says, "Heil, Lords."
20:02 (Cyrene): Tasus says, "And hail, Lord Neraeos."
20:02 (Cyrene): Stefana says, "Hail Lord Neraeos."
20:02 (Cyrene): Roselie says, "Hail Lord Patron."
20:02 (Cyrene): Tarvius says, "Thank you Lord Phaestus."
20:02 (Cyrene): Zadkiel says, "Hail Lord Neraeos."
20:03 (Cyrene): Darshadi says, "Hello, M'lords."
20:06 (Cyrene): Kresslack says, "Anyone need runes or tattoos?"
20:06 (Cyrene): Argyle says, "Actually, forgot about runes. I
could use them, Kresslack. Would you like me to come to you?"
20:07 (Cyrene): Kresslack says, "I'll meet you at Centre."
20:07 (Cyrene): Argyle says, "On the way."