David:	Heh
Anyway my point is
This world is supposed to be highly magical
AND psionic
and my SR will block psionics too
/me asked the GM
Also lets say I use the 10 abillity point bonus and throw it into str
thats 29 star
just from the strart
in addiction to gettting a attribute point like what
every 4 levels?
I could go 5 barb 10 forsaker 5 more frenized
that would be three frenzies a day improved power attack supreme cleave remain conscious and deathless frenzy
combined with the barbian stuff up to level five
and all my classes are 1d12
I will have alot of health
and be able to fast heal it
and when i go into my prestiges i automatically become literate
Id be able to rage twice a day and have improved uncanny dodge
combined with my DR and SR
Whatever I dont dodge
I can take as damage
Do you still think its so risky?
Plaequake:	I do, yes.
If something gets past your SR (and it will, at higher levels), you could die in a single hit.
David:	even with 1d12 for all my levels and a starting con of 19?
Plaequake:	Yes.
David:	Id raise it to 20 with my first point up
Plaequake:	Because you won't necessarily have the save-boosting magic items that many other characters would have.
Alternatively
You could just be mind controlled and used to kill the entire party.
At which point
David:	Ill have 22 sr
Plaequake:	Do you
David:	*20
Plaequake:	Know how SR is rolled
David:	also i have a extra throw
Plaequake:	Still. Do you know how one overcomes SR
David:	isnt it rolled like everything else?
Plaequake:	1d20 + caster level, VS SR.
David:	The GM was worried about my SR actually
Plaequake:	So, 20 SR?
At... level 15, you'd be?
David:	Probably
Plaequake:	okay.
I have to roll a 5 or greater to affect you with a spell, assuming an equal level caster.
Statisticly speaking, then, you will be affected by spells at least 50% of the time.
As you won't have magic items to give you MORE SR.
And even then that's a gamble, because mages can (and SHOULD, if they're not idiots) take a little feat that gives them +2 to overcome SR.
So now I need to roll a 3.
David:	What about Non mgaical items?
*magical
Plaequake:	Nonmagical items do NOT give SR.
David:	Isnt there like mirrored sheilds which are not magic however give passive SR?
Plaequake:	Nope.
Not unless the GM specifically
you know
makes them
Let me put it to you straight: Yes, you have a pretty tough character.
But you are not nearly as defended as you think you are.
You are all or nothing against magic. And it's not nearly as hard as you seem to think to overcome your defenses.
David:	Hrmm
Dont I get a saving through?
*throw
Plaequake:	Yes. Yes you do.
David:	So not EVERYTHING is totaly lost
Plaequake:	That's right, it's not. But your character is v ery dependant on luck.
Like I said, it's all or nothing.
Either they roll badly and their spell doesn't affect you
Or you save
David:	Huh this wikis version is different
Plaequake:	Or... they don't roll badly, and you don't roll well.
And horrible things happen.
David:	Anyway I also have team mates
A assassin a fighter and probably a bard
Plaequake:	Okay.
You're still the tank.
David:	Probably
Plaequake:	Which means you're going to get ALL their CC
Do you really think you'll be able to save against everyting, every fight?
David:	No
Plaequake:	And I'm pointing out to you, if you don't, you are in serious trouble.
So
Don't be surprised if you die.
David:	However i think i may be able to do well enough that i can hit things
Plaequake:	This is exceptionally high risk.
David:	I mean if i hit things
Plaequake:	And I don't think you understand just how risky it is : \
David:	they die right?
Im trying
Plaequake:	Let me put it this way.
If your GM doesn't play magical characters well
then you're goinna be fucking godlike.
David:	Huh this one on the wiki is better
Plaequake:	If, on the other hand, he knows what he's doing
You are going to be in some deep shit.
David:	Spell Resistance (Ex): At 1st level, the forsaker gains spell resistance 10 + character level. This value increases by +1 for every level gained thereafter in any class, forsaker or otherwise, as long as he forsakes magic (see above). This ability remains in effect as long as the forsaker pays an appropriate amount of magic destruction points (see below). A forsaker can never forego spell resistance. This value stacks with any other applicable spell resistance he has.
Like going armor against someone i should have gone mresist against
and actually im not trying to be a tank
Plaequake:	No, it's more of
You have really high Armor/Mresist
But
...
Hmm, actually, no a LoL analogy isn't useful here.
Basically
High level boils down to a lot of 'save or die'
Your very CHARACTER CONCEPT
David:	True
Plaequake:	is 'save or die'
From the moment you pick up that class.
David:	Doesnt SR though also factor into my roll to LESSEN damage
like mresist?
Plaequake:	no
its binary
either you resist the spell
and it does nothing
or you don
and it does what it's supposed to.
David:	Hrmm
and DR will do nothing against spells?
What if I had a ranged weapon?
Oh okay I see why this class is better now
they never updated it for 3.5
it was in the 3.0 book it seems
Plaequake:	Still, hopefully you'll *think* about this more
David:	I am thinking about it
I just like the class idea
Plaequake:	Just remember, D&D is very unfriendly to 'concept' builds unless the GM is specifically ready for it.
David:	Whyy?
Plaequake:	It's just how the mechanics work.
The way the spells are arranged, the way the numbers are set up.
David:	But ita a roleplaying game
Plaequake:	And that's why a lot of people hate 3.x
It's not balanced at all.
Some core things are horribly underpowered
David:	: \ Dang.
Plaequake:	while some are horribly OVERPOWERED.
David:	Like any magic
Plaequake:	That's right.
A primary spellcaster WILL beat you with a lucky roll.
David:	Ugh but i have potenial?
Plaequake:	You are exceptoinally high risk, moderate reward.
David:	Moderate? :(
Plaequake:	Yeah, see, cause you can't use magic items, which are the best rewards in D&D.
David:	Thats no fun
Plaequake:	That's your concept.
Have fun! ^_^
David:	I meant that
No real
rewards
Plaequake:	...And like I said. No magic, hating magic, is your concept.
David:	Yes but you dont need magic??
Plaequake:	In a game where more powerful magic items and epic artifacts are the best rewards.
David:	Do they always have to be magical?
Plaequake:	Unless your GM asspulls materials and such
Yes.
David:	I mean cant they just be unique
I dont think he asspulls but
Plaequake:	That's... magical items.
David:	he does have a whole unique world
No magical implies theyvve been enchanted
Unique implies maybe there was something about their smithing that makes them a bit better
Plaequake:	And like I said... you can only go so far with that stuff.
With materials and the like.
David:	/me is trying to save his concept as best he can
Would frenized help save it a bit?
Plaequake:	/me unless the GM is specifically tailoring his campaign and rewards to fit your concept it won't work
Barbarian 10/Frenzied 10, with a dislike of mages but no problem using actual magic items is a character that I played.
It was exceptionally effective, and very fun because the dislike of magic and everything was ENTIRELY ROLEPLAY based.
It didn't ACTUALLY give her in-game penalties on something that the game system was built around the assumption of using.
David:	and my natural weapon stuff
doesnt help at all?
Plaequake:	It'll help a bit. But demons/devils/etc, heavily supernatural creatures, and pretty much all extraplanar creatures will laugh at you, and then subtract their DR from your damage.
David:	And wont the same happen to me?
I mean im not exactly expecting to be able to handle everything on my own but if i can fight on even ground with some things while my allies lay the smack down
Plaequake:	No? Because they'll have magic weapons or weapons that count as magic weapons that will bypass your DR.
David:	ALL of my DR?
Plaequake:	You know how DR works, right?
David:	Like armor right?
Plaequake:	If you have DR 5/+1
That means all physical damage (Bludgeoning, Slashing, Piercing) is reduced by 5, UNLESS the weapon is magic +1 bonus or greater, in which case, it doesn't reduce.
David:	I see
so
they would need a +5 weapon
to bypass my dr at highest levels
Plaequake:	Or eqivalent.
David:	what about the added DR?
Plaequake:	Also, that Fast Healing is bad.
David:	what
why
Plaequake:	It has a cap.
Like
David:	well im not supposed to be OP?
Plaequake:	It has a maximum it can healed per day.
Right
David:	...ugh
Plaequake:	Okay. Again. let me put this to you.
I'm a 10th level wizard.
David:	/me really liked the class too sigh
Plaequake:	I cast fireball on you.
At 5th level forsaker, 5th level barbarian, you have no fire resistance.
You have SR 15.
I roll 5 on my d20, I pass.
You now take full or half damage of my 10d6 fireball.
You can heal a MAXIMUM of 30 HP in that day.
I have a maximum damage of 60.
David:	I also have if we are being genorous here 60 HP
Plaequake:	Okay.
David:	So
youd have to be like
super lucky to oneshot me?
Plaequake:	Yes.
But!
David:	In the mean time
My assassin is also flaking you
Plaequake:	Wait, I'm not done.
As a 10th level wizard, I also have magic items out the wazoo, resistance cast, and probably have universally higher saves than you do, plus DR 10/- (unbypassable DR)
David:	what
how can you have unbypassable dr
Plaequake:	Because I'm a wizard, and I'm fucking OP once I hit 10th level
Barbarians have it.
Wizards get it with a spell.
See, your class LOOKS great on paper.
David:	Maybe i should go barb ten forsaker ten
Plaequake:	But it doesn't change the fact that mages are OP as hell-
No. Ditch forsaker entirely. Go Frenzied.
Keep your hatred of magic and the like as ROLE PLAY.
David:	Grr
Ugh
I hate mages already
Plaequake:	Disclaimer: I'm not taking any pleasure in destroying this concept for you
But
David:	Uh huh
Plaequake:	A LOT of PRCs are TERRIBLE but look great on paper.
David:	/me Doesnt believe that for a second
Plaequake:	I've been playing the game for 8 years now.
David:	/me that you arent taking pleasure in it i mean
Plaequake:	No.
Really, I'm not.
David:	/me the other thing i believe
Plaequake:	I hate killing concepts on a mechanics level.
I hate that.
David:	But it looks GREAT
Plaequake:	I know it does.
David:	it was the perfect class for him
Plaequake:	I know.
David:	He was a very weird hybird who hated EVERYTHING
Plaequake:	But the problem is that mages are so insanely unbalanced that it doesn't matter.
David:	I think the custom world may do something about that
Im not sure
Plaequake:	That's setting. Unless he literally
rewrote the magic using classes
from top to bottom
David:	No but
they added items
like
Plaequake:	Then they're unbalanced on a mechancis level.
David:	a very particular type of shield called a spring shield. Shields with weapons stored inside of them, spring loaded and ready to release.
So there may be like
other weird items?
Plaequake:	CHeck with your GM.
David:	idk
Hes at work and I will
Plaequake:	And please, by ALL MEANS
Cite what I wrote here.
David:	I will
im just going ARGH right now
Plaequake:	Address what I said directly.
David:	i didnt want to CURBSTOMP EVERYTHING
but i wanted to be able to do things
Plaequake:	You will be exceptionally powerful at low levels.
Once you hit level 10
When mages start hitting their stride
You're gonna have problems.
The monsters and whatnot assume you're using magic weapons/armor, etc
David:	Argh and i cant even have bard song
Plaequake:	Yeah, there's also that.
Unless you guys specifically build the party around it.
If you specifically build your characters as anti-mages
David:	well
Plaequake:	Then
That's different.
David:	we have one assassin who has a background of antimage
Plaequake:	I mean class build. Not background.
Raw mechanics of taking out mages.
David:	I know but
why MENTION IT IN THE BACKGROUND IF IT DOESNT HAVE A EFFECT ON THE CHARACTER?
Plaequake:	Because D&D
David:	Blargh
This was dumb
i shouldnt have to like super armor if my class is supposed to be SPECIALIZED in taking down mages
with out magic weapons
What if i focused on damage?
Plaequake:	See, the Forsaker is something I like to call 'concept manifest in mechanics', taken to an extreme.
David:	?
Plaequake:	IE
the concept of someone who hates mages and magic
put into mechanics.
It's something that's far better left to roleplaying rather than numbers.
David:	Yes?
Plaequake:	Because... apart from the SR
You don't actually have any tools for hurting mages.
You don't do bonus damage to them
David:	But if your character hates magic so much why do you have that +5 cold iron great sword
?
Plaequake:	You don't have any resistances
You don't
Have
what you would NEED
to kill them
David:	why not
Plaequake:	Because the class doesn't give them to you!
David:	Why doesnt the class give me the tools I need?
Plaequake:	BECUASE ITS A BAD CLASS
David:	Bad design?
Plaequake:	Yes!
David:	D:
Plaequake:	It's bad design that LOOKS great on paper
And probably WORKS great if properly integrated into the campaign with an apporpriate party.
But if you face someone who knows what they're doing with a mage
Well
Anyone's gonna go down.
David:	Ugh
I feel like my character
Plaequake:	Because you don't have antimagic, or stuff that works specifically against mages. Just passive defense.
David:	well
Id also probably be great against fellow warriors?
I have a +10 against being disarmed
Plaequake:	Okay, I'll lay this out: If yiou don't ever face
Like
High- level pure class mages
then
You'll be epic.
Again, it's very binary.
Ify ou don't face the one thing that will kill you, you're fine.
Unfortuantely, the one thing that will kill you is what your class is (supposedly) supposed to fight.
David:	<_>
And Rangers
I count as a giant for purposes of favored enemy
Plaequake:	Anyway.
Sorry.
Really.
David:	Blargh but it looked so FUN
Plaequake:	I hope you can work it out.
David:	I thought id be like
Galieo
Plaequake:	Frenzied Berzerker is hilariously fun, though.
If your GM cannot give good answers to what I set out
Go with that.
You won't regret it.
David:	Should I take 5 levels in that regardless?
Plaequake:	I am going to reccomend 10 Barb/10 Frenzied.
But if you MUST do this Forskaer (and I highly reccomend against it), then yes
David:	Yes you said that XD
Plaequake:	5 levels of frenzied.
You can just
David:	Ill take it under consideration over what the Gm says
Plaequake:	Violence
All over them
...
Hmm.
You know
What you COULD do
David:	what?
Plaequake:	Is start with your concept
Keep the anti-magic to Roleplaying only.
David:	XD You said that
Plaequake:	Go Barbarian and then go into Berserker.
Learn how to fight against mages, etc
Without the forsaker class
David:	Youve suggested that like
Plaequake:	Get a feel for the game without mechancially gimping yourself against a major feature of it
David:	5 times.
XD
Plaequake:	Then
Once you hit level 10
THEN
Decide if the lack of magic items and the like
is actually worth it
Regardless of what the GM says
David:	I didnt know all the rules its true
Plaequake:	Like go
5 barb - 5 Frenzied - 10 Forsake
OR if you find you're having fun with what you got
Go 5 barb-10 Frenzied - 5 Barb
David:	:P
Maybe
Ill see how the first five levels go
Plaequake:	No, don't count on the first 5 levels.
If you're a barbarian
David:	I took power attack as my first feat though
Plaequake:	you're going to own
Barbarian is so ungodly powerful in the first 5 levels it's almost unfunny.
David:	even against mages?
Plaequake:	Mages are pathetic pre-5, rogues don't have the damage output.
Fighters and Barbarians and Paladins basically rule.
Then 10 swings around
And the physical classes start going down (barbarian remains useful though, due to the slew of class featuers, paladins get spells and features to compensate), and the mages start getting scary.
Basically mages don't get their good stuff till around level 9 or so.
And most of their stuff pre-5 is horrible (unless the mage is really creative)
David:	I talked to someone who wanted to summon a horde of like zombies as a sorcerer
even the GM was like
Id take them all down
Plaequake:	Well, yes.
Tell me, do zombies
cast spells
David:	Uhh
I think
Plaequake:	No.
They don't.
David:	Isnt there a zombie mage?
Plaequake:	They're purely physical monsters
David:	Or is that something else
Plaequake:	Something else.
I'm talking about you facing a direct mage attack post 10.
THAT is where you're going to be weakest, where your character concept SHOULD be strongest.
If you take frenzied though
David:	Hrmm
Plaequake:	Then you can be like
"FUCK YOU" *Frenzy* *Proceed to smash*
Note: All of this is moot for 4e D&D
Where
Well, there's still kind of a dependance on magical items
But mages aren't nearly as godlike.
David:	well i think it was designed for 3.5 we are going to be facing alot of mages too
Plaequake:	High level mages? (10+)
David:	maybe
not sure
there may be warriors too
Plaequake:	Good luck.
XD
David:	Blargh
it looked amazing on paper
and frenized
...didnt
Plaequake:	Frenzied is very fun
I speak from experience.
David:	:( only way I can think to really
Save this is like
asspulls and unobtianium
or some kind of ore that resists magic?
...That could be neat actually.
Plaequake:	Yeah, like I said, on its own it's not a very good class.
David:	Sigh
Also god
this
1100 gp a day
thats a seriously good point
Plaequake:	It's a high price to pay, upon reading the costs, isn't it?
David:	yeah
/me researched prices
Plaequake:	Yeah.
You're just
Giving up way too much for so little in return, where Barbarian and Frenzied just give you so much with so little drawback.
David:	I like the class though
And I think if the class had ever been updated
it could have been good
I just want a guy with ranger level hate for mages
Plaequake:	Then just make that your CONCEPT
And exclude magic items from that hate.
Seriously.
David:	But if the concept has no effect on things what GOOD is it?
Plaequake:	Think of it this way:
Items enchanted with magic are tools.
Magic is a tool.
Those who weild magic, though, are dangerous and unpredictable.
It helps give your character PERSONALITY.
David:	Ill talk to my DM about it
Plaequake:	I think the big thing here
Is that your character hates MAGES.
But not magic itself.
David:	He hates alot of things
Plaequake:	That would be a very interesting character.
David:	Hes a neutral evil giant dwarf
hes kind of
Plaequake:	ESPECIALLY in a heavily magical world.
David:	Not really a nice guy
Hmm
I need cleave
Destrutive rage and intimidating rage
the BAB doesnt seem like it will be a problem though
I already have +5
Plaequake:	Ja.
David:	Ugh
Maybe ill just become a blackguard
Plaequake:	You know they have spells, right?
David:	...Damnit
Plaequake:	DO YOU SEE WHAT I MEAN
XD
Magic and use of it is basically assumed in... pretty much all the classes except for a few.
David:	COULD I AT LEAST RESIST THEIR SPELLS?
Also
NO POTIONS?
Why are potions magic
i thought they were chemical reactions
Plaequake:	Because in D&D they are made via spells.
David:	lame
Plaequake:	Yeah, dude.
Don't do forsaker.
The more I see this
the more I realize "HOLY SHIT this is bad"
David:	But i like ittt
/me whine
Plaequake:	On an entirely side note, the attitude that 'if it's in your backstory it should impact your character mechanically', is a very bad one for RP.
David:	Why?
Plaequake:	Because. How you act doesn't necessarily influence your ability to do something.
You know? I love to make art, but I suck at drawing. Under your logic, a character who likes art should have ranks in creating it.
David:	Yet a rangers thirst for revenge can grant them bonusdamage against enemies
Plaequake:	Okay
You're mixing up class features an how they impact the character with BACKGROUND AND ROLEPLAY.
Your class and your character's ... well, character, are two different things.
They intertwine at points
But you are not your class.
If you are letting your class or your skill selection or whatnot
define your character and how you roleplay
then you're doing it wrong.
David:	I think there should be a infulence there
is all
Plaequake:	Yes. THEY INFLUENCE IT.
That's all.
David:	like
a ranger with favored enemy dragon
shouldnt be getting all
buddy buddy with that evil red dragon
Plaequake:	That's right!
BUT
A ranger with favored enemy Undead
can still hate dragons.
David:	Oh yes
Also
Plaequake:	Without having the favored enemy dragon feature
David:	Favored enemy undead?
Doesnt it
like
Plaequake:	Just something I threw out there
David:	not work against them?
Plaequake:	Undead are immune to CRITICAL HITS and SNEAK ATTACKS. Favored enemy is knowing where to hit to properly disable them.
But that's beside the point.
The point is
Things in your backstory don't have to influence your character's rolls.
And frequently shouldn't.
David:	True however
Plaequake:	Because it makes you more than just a jumble of numbers.
David:	if my characters backstory says that he trained to fight mages
id want that somehow worked in there
Plaequake:	Well, you won't.
Unless
You find a PrC that
gives combat bonuses against Mages.
Or you take some feats for it
or
David:	i lookeeeed
Plaequake:	something
Then maybe that's a bad backstory element.
Maybe that's not the sort of thing you should have your character assumed to have done.
You need to fit your character and concept together. If they don't fit, then you need to change one of them.
David:	Hrmm
Plaequake:	Right now
Yours don't match.
David:	Sigh
What about
Plaequake:	A far better backstory would have a mage doing something horrible to something important to him
and now he's on a quest for revenge
David:	sword of the ocult or something
Plaequake:	Against that mage
David:	Slayer?
Plaequake:	That sounds more like it.
Slayer of the Occult?
That sounds like a mage killer.
David:	That is a class right?
Plaequake:	Dude, there are hundreds of PrCs.
David:	Maybe i could combin-
what
really?
Plaequake:	Yes.
David:	Damn
Plaequake:	Most of them are terrible.
David:	...WHY
Plaequake:	Because 3.5 is a pile of unbalanced garbage!
David:	/me rolls and the floor and screems
Plaequake:	It's fun if you have the right GM
But if you have someone who's strictly by the book
then
it's horrible
David:	i doubt this one is by the book
Plaequake:	Look
Just take stuff that buffs your saves
David:	Ill try
Plaequake:	Take the frenzied berseker stuff
And
David:	pray?
XD
Plaequake:	Spin your character into a vengance tale
A mage fucked him up when he was younger.
He started out hunting just that mage
Now it's kind of spread
to
all mages
David:	All magic
Plaequake:	MAGES
Not magic
David:	But Im evil
Dont i have to like
Plaequake:	If you totally forsake magic then you are KILLING YOUR CHARACTER
David:	go above and beyond?
Plaequake:	No.
Don't be stupid
Not every evil character is a supervillian.
Most aren't.
David:	I didnt mean supervillian
i meant more
takes it way too far
Plaequake:	Evil maens you don't care who you have to hurt to do what you want.
David:	destroys source of magic
Plaequake:	If you just focus on mages instead
It's far more easy to work with
David:	hmm
Plaequake:	For everyone involved.
GM, You, and Your Party.
What you are trying to do here
David:	Im going to miss that addition ten abillity points
Plaequake:	Is the worst (as in bad, and not very interesting) sort of Chaotic Evil.
David:	well im neutral evil actually
Plaequake:	Exactly.
David:	evil for the sake of evil
Plaequake:	Exactly.
There's nothing for you to gain
by destroying magic itself
There's PLENTY for you to gain
by killing mages.
David:	I would get to piss in the ashes.
metaphorically speaking anyway
and in a very magic based world
Plaequake:	Also
killing mages is a far more realistic goal.
David:	it could cause alot of social change
True!
Plaequake:	In a heavily magic based wold
It might even be impossible to 'destroy magic'
Remember
David:	...Maybe ill do frenized first
Plaequake:	Yes.
Don't do Forsaker.
David:	see how it goes
Plaequake:	AT ALL
David:	hgihg
Plaequake:	DUDE
No potions?
Half healing from spells?
David:	I LIKE FORSAKER THOUGGGGHH
Plaequake:	No magic items?
That's TERRIBLE!
David:	10 abillity points
Plaequake:	That is a HORRIBLE class.
That does'nt make up for it.
David:	natural weapons +5
Plaequake:	DOES NOT MAKE UP FOR IT>
Listen I know how this game works almost inside and out.
That class
David:	Im sure
Plaequake:	Is
HORRIBLE
David:	im just
i like the concept and wish i could save it
Im not obessing i just thought it was perfect when i saw it
Plaequake:	Right now you're playing AP nautilus.
David:	0_0
i
Plaequake:	And you're listing off all the reasons why it 'seems' good.
David:	ap nautilus
what
Plaequake:	That's what you're
That's the LoL equivalent of what you're doing
You saw something that LOOKS feasable and looks good on paper.
David:	gdi
Plaequake:	How good is AP naut in practice?
Tell me.
David:	...
ugh
Plaequake:	I think we finally understand each other.
I know it looks fun
I know it fits with your idea
but
David:	there is NOTHING i can do?
Plaequake:	No. That class is basically a good idea for a concept but terribly executed.
David:	I mean it loooks great! and itd be feasable if not for a few things.
Plaequake:	An almost complete rewrite of the class would be required.
David:	Ugh I just wanted to play a antimage
Plaequake:	You know
That's a really, really complex concept for D&D
David:	I didnt know that
Plaequake:	Maybe you're biting off a little more than you can chew
Like I said. Try for something smaller, more realistic.
You hate mages, you're suspicious of spells in general (but not magic items - but intelligent magic items are EVIL AND MUST BE DESTROYED), and you kill mages whenever you can.
David:	I think
Plaequake:	You tailor your feats and whatnot specifically for that.
David:	Intelligent magic items would
throw my character for a loop
Plaequake:	okay.
David:	i can just imagine
Plaequake:	But
David:	a forsaker trying to debate with one now XD
Plaequake:	See, just start smaller. Right now you have "I WANT TO DESTROY ALL MAGIC"
That's ...
Hell, that's pretty unfeasable for epic level characters.
David:	"I want to kill all the mages."
Plaequake:	Still a bit unrealistic, for now.
But...
it probably COULD be done.
It would be damn hard.
But it COULD be done.
David:	"I want to kill every mage i come across and I dont want to use magic as a cruch to do so"
Plaequake:	Okay.
Which means you'd prefer nonmagical weapons and the like
But would not be adverse to using magical weapons if it's necessary.
David:	...
questioin
Plaequake:	?
David:	*question
do these
magic items
have to be DROPPED
for me to destroy
i have 19 star
*str
cant i just snap that +1 sword in half?
Plaequake:	No.
Magical items are INCREDIBLY resilient.
David:	how do i destroy them anyway?
Plaequake:	Almost...
Magically so
David:	...
Plaequake:	I'm not sure, actually.
David:	So
Plaequake:	Usually
David:	im useing magic
Plaequake:	one would use...
magic.
XD
Like I said.
David:	But a
forsaker wouldnt? XD
Plaequake:	Badly designed class.
It's self-contradictory and
doesn't do what it sets out to do
Honestly, for your first playthrough with real D&D
I would honestly just reccomend a straight barbarian
David:	Huh
Plaequake:	You know
David:	alot of these people
Plaequake:	It *works*
David:	im reading about
have spell resistance from other things
Plaequake:	Yeah, spell resistance is easy to get with class featrues and items.
And spells.
David:	No I mean
Plaequake:	Or just from race.
David:	as a forsaker
Some of them are suggesting Adamanitite equipment I see alot of them praising the +10 abillity score
Plaequake:	It's still just not worth what you have to give up IMO
Look, if you're heart-set on this badly designed class
Then nothing I will say will stop you
but
If it blows up in your face
David:	Not so heart set but kind of
Plaequake:	I told you so
David:	frustrated with it
and want to make it work partly out of spite for the people who designed it
Plaequake:	And I will also maintain it's incredibly inappropriate for what amounts to a first time player.
David:	Hrmm
Plaequake:	There's
So much
that could go wrong
So easily
David:	/me flops around
but it seemed so cool when i saw it and i like cool things
like you said
interesting concept
Plaequake:	And this is why you have people like me around
To show you what's really going on
Behind the fancy curtain of 'this looks SO COOL'