Embrace vs BTC 2

Greninja vs Sang

****

Embrace R1

* Starts with a water ninja star, can be thrown, little downside to use.

* Shuriken can tag an Abomasnow who's as fast as Greninja.

* Scales to Bisharp, who scales to Pikachu and Pikachu's lightning is fast.

* Can tag Sang at the spawn point

* Greninja's water ninja star pierces through a lot of crystal

* Sang doesnt have good enough piercing resist to tank a water shuriken

* Has Melee piercing as well

* Cut: over powers sceptile, who over powers Pikachu, And matches Charzard, Charizard matches Zygard, who pushes zygard through some buildings.

* Aerial Ace: makes shockwaves and breaks the ice battle field. Kicks charizard so hard he breaks the ground Charizard shakes off a meteor mash, that shatters mountain peaks.

* Water Shuriken: Cracks the ground and cancels Charizards blast burn which is ??? strong

* Greninja takes a flash cannon which can send boulders flying.

* Greninja scales to Charizard who is strong.

* Greninja agile

Good first response, Sets up win cons in a concise manner. Lots of scaling tho

*****

BTC R1

* Greninja's projectile's arent hard to avoid. Greninja's opponents literally aren't looking or makes zero effort to avoid

* Scaling to pikachu isnt impressive

* Zygard scaling bad

* Charizard aerial ace scaling bad

* The Spear vaporizes a hole big enough that Sang can fit through and Sang is large

* Greninja cannot survive the heat the spear puts out, his feats are good enough.

* Sang can see Greninja from the spawn point as well so that advantage is moot

* Sang cracks solid earth while flying.

* Sang catches an axe from a monster that can lift 30 tons

* Sang will catch Greninja and just choke him.

* Sang has acid spit.

* Spear Feat > Charizard feat

* Sang has a longer reach and a polearm.

* Sang can fly

This response starts off with more of the same "projectiles bad, pikachu bad" which worked last for the previous match so like good job I guess. BTC convinced me that the Charizard scaling is bad, but im still unconvinced about the Zygard scaling. The Spear seems good, makes a big hole in metal. Sang seems to be a 30 tonner which is under tier but like better than Greninja probably. I dont buy Sang just being able to walk up to greninja and spit in his face. The reach and flight are nice advantages

****

Embrace R2

* If Greninja lands the shuriken, he auto wins. He lands it.

* Shuriken fast.

* Throws Shuriken at supersonic speed

* Some fucking scaling I do not understand.

* Sang eye sight bad

* Sang has no way to access his win cons, he has less time to dodge the closer he gets. HE cannot get into melee range

* no objection to Sang dying to piercing.

* Zygard scaling valid

* Greninja aerial ace scaling good

* Greninja piercing good

* BTC has argued that using force while flying is unimpressive, but now argues it is impressive, on top of that the scale of the cracked earth is vague.

* 30 Ton scaling is fake

* If Sang chokes Greninja, Greninja will just cut off his arm.

* All Spit is acidic, and Pokemon humans can take poison punches

* Spear feat bad, Charizard feat better

* Sangs size is a bad thing

* Greninja can fly with Aerial ace

Restating the Shuriken win con, with a very convincing line about having less time the closer Sang gets. The rest of this argument goes downhill fast. Theres a block of scaling that claims a whole bunch of speeds for a whole bunch of pokemon with no real proof, also its confusing as fuck. I do agree the Shuriken seems fast tho. Im still not convinced the Zygard scaling is bad so like good job restating that. Embraces calls out the Sang chokes out Greninja strat.

****

BTC R2

* Abomasnow puts his arms up to block, he's not trying to get out of the way of this attack

* The Shuriken is not thrown at a supersonic speed

* Greninja puts his arms up to block the dragon attack, he does not try to dodge like Embrace claims he would

* the scaling I dont understand is bad

* Sang eye sight is good

* Sang looks like a person/angel Would Ash kill a person/angel

* The spit is acid but like real acid, also poison doesnt equal acid.

* Greninja will try and block rather than avoid

* Spear feat > Charizard feat

* Greninja will not be able to hit Sang with projectiles, as such this battle will turn into a melee fight where Sang has the ability to act first due to his reach advantage

* Zygard can fly which makes his feats bad

* The 30 ton feat isnt fake, Embrace made up the fact that its on an incline, theres nothing to support this in the text Sang scales to this feat

More of the same really. projectiles slow, scaling bad. I am convinced that the Spear has a better feat than Greninja can handle, its just I dont know how Sang gets into spear range other than slow projectiles which is a meh argument right now.

******

Embrace R3

* Abomasnow isnt trying to move because he's too slow. also his sight isnt obstructed, just the observers

* Shuriken is supersonic, Greninja's projectiles are visually faster than Altarias

* Scaling I dont understand

* Sang eyesight bad

* Theres an egg group called humanoid, and pokemon beat up on them all the time. angels dont exist in pokemon. BTC has no proof that Greninja wont kill Sang

* Greninja's shurikens at short ranges outside the range of the spear will hit Sangunius regardless of projectile speed

* Hyperagility and the shuriken being used to defelct the spear make range meaningless

* Ash will kill.

* Greninja one shots Sang

* Zygard isnt flying, he's just leaping

* The 30 ton feat essentially boils down to "this feat could be on an incline", "okay, prove this feat could be on an incline", "no".

* not all acids are created equal

* Pokemon use acid moves, as such because Greninja is a pokemon he can survive acid moves

* Greninja blocks consistantly

* Charizard feat > spear feat


This response is like alright, more talking about how fast the water shuriken is and how Sang cant do shit because of that.

The rest of this response doesnt really need to exist, im already convinced one way or another on every other point.

*****

BTC R3

* Theres no possible way to call the camera cut half way, also Embrace assumes that Abomasnow was forced to block, rather than made the conscious decision to block.

* Altaria slow, it takes like 2 seconds which is reactable even by human standards.

* Pokemon aren't mach 1

* Sang eyesight good

* Ash controlling a pokemon makes a difference, also Machoke is not human like

* Beedrill bad

* Zygard scaling bad

* Embrace cannot prove that the tree's were vaporized

* The Second attack by Charizard is clearly smaller than the first attack.

* Acid argument dumb. Just because Acid exists in the pokemon world doesnt mean Greninja meaningfully scales to it, or even how strong that acid is.

* The thermal energy for the spear feat is better than the thermal energy for the Charizard feat because wood is less heavy than metal

* Hyper agility means shit

with this last response BTC has successfully convinced me that the Water Shurikens are slow enough that Sang has a reasonable time frame to dodge them until he reaches melee range. The Charizard forest feat is just visably worse than Charizard blasting Greninja and The Spear feat scales above that feat anyways. The in character arguments were dumb. I would have really liked to see an actual calc for Thermal energy instead of just pasting the formula into your response.


******

Robert Grillman was deemed OOT

Anyways BTC takes this 2-1