[18:42] <@xurich> I like how two or three of you just discuss these things for 10 minutes and decide 'hey why not implement them right now'
[18:42] <@Kenix> didn't we all agree
[18:42] <@Kenix> on taking them?
[18:42] <@xurich> fuck no
[18:42] <@Kenix> at least I remember how most of staff members did
[18:42] <@xurich> I said some of them would make very good admins and we should have them submit an application
[18:43] <@xurich> even still, there was NEVER an official discussion of it where it was agreed to do it
[18:43] <@Kenix> yeah right
[18:43] <@Kenix> official discussions
[18:43] <@Kenix> dude
[18:43] <@Kenix> take a look at the forums
[18:43] <@Kenix> this section is dead
[18:43] <@xurich> I also said that I wanted to have a say in selecting who was going to succeed me (and the others retiring)
[18:43] <@xurich> that was the only thing I cared about
[18:44] <@xurich> if this is your vision of how the new staff is going to decide things, you're going to have a worse problem than inactivity
[18:44] <@xurich> when every admin makes big decisions on a whim and decides to make them official
[18:44] <@Kenix> it's not my vision, I didn't decide it on my own
[18:44] <@xurich> there is a balance, and this is not it
[18:44] <@Kenix> i'm just the one who answers to you here
[18:44] <@Kenix> because the others are not here I guess
[18:44] <@xurich> who? you Zerout and ricr?
[18:45] <@xurich> who discuss it here while others are afk and decide to go ahead with it?
[18:45] <@xurich> Zerout's dumb topic in the helper forum is one thing, at least it's not anything completely official
[18:45] <@xurich> but to actually RECRUIT NEW ADMINS, probably the most IMPORTANT decision we as admins make
[18:45] <@Kenix> it's rather our topic
[18:45] <@xurich> without giving everybody a chance to say something
[18:45] <@xurich> is fucked up
[18:46] <@xurich> honestly, i've never been insulted by any of your posts saying the old admins need to retire, etc, because it's all true, and i've never felt downgraded by it
[18:46] <@xurich> but by this action I do
[18:46] <@Kenix> nice to know that you put the blame solely on me
[18:46] <@xurich> this is the worst thing I've ever seen from other staff members here
[18:46] <@xurich> I don't
[18:47] <@xurich> I said the group responsible
[18:47] <@xurich> it's mostly ricr anyway
[18:47] <@Kenix> guess we missunderstood
[18:47] <@Kenix> the whole thing then
[18:47] <@Kenix> by having almost every admin
[18:47] <@Kenix> agreeing to get the helpers in
[18:47] <@Kenix> and come on
[18:47] <@Kenix> why would they send in applications
[18:47] <@Kenix> xurich
[18:47] <@Kenix> they've done more for this league
[18:47] <@Kenix> than all admins did
[18:47] <@Kenix> this season
[18:47] <@Kenix> they were responsible for all the matches
[18:47] <@Kenix> for all the roster updates
[18:47] <@xurich> they didn't necessarily HAVE to send applications, but that's the whole point here
[18:47] <@Kenix> and eventually even for the playoffs
[18:47] <@xurich> it wasn't even discussed amongst us
[18:47] <@xurich> it was just decided by three of you overnight
[18:47] <@xurich> and implemented immediately
[18:48] <@Kenix> that's probably because we misunderstood it then
[18:48] <@xurich> I don't understand
[18:48] <@xurich> even if it was misunderstood
[18:48] <@xurich> isn't it obvious that there should be an official topic on introducing the new admins
[18:48] <@xurich> on the forums
[18:48] <@Kenix> obviously this would've followed
[18:49] <@xurich> even if that's true (which I don't believe it is)
[18:49] <@Kenix> the misunderstanding here is
[18:49] <@xurich> does that make discussion any less important?
[18:49] <@Kenix> that we had the impression
[18:49] <@xurich> that's why we're here
[18:49] <@xurich> to discuss these things
[18:49] <@Kenix> that everyone was agreeing already
[18:49] <@xurich> and yes when it comes down to it a vote is in order, but until then everybody should have a chance to give an opinion
[18:49] <@Kenix> [18:48] <@Kenix> obviously this would've followed
[18:49] <@Kenix> [18:49] <@xurich> even if that's true (which I don't believe it is)
[18:49] <@Kenix> of ocurse we would've introduced them
[18:49] <@Kenix> to the community
[18:50] <@xurich> I mean their introduction here without an application
[18:50] <@Kenix> [18:49] <@xurich> and yes when it comes down to it a vote is in order, but until then everybody should have a chance to give an opinion
[18:50] <@Kenix> and from what i remembered
[18:50] <@Kenix> everyone
[18:50] <@Kenix> was basically agreeing
[18:50] <@Kenix> right
[18:50] <@Kenix> that must be the misunderstanding
[18:50] <@xurich> I don't know, BECAUSE THERE'S NO FORUM TOPIC
[18:50] <@xurich> I don't know what little side chats you've had with every admin over the past few months
[18:50] <@Kenix> you gotta read all the posts then
[18:50] <@xurich> how am I supposed to know
[18:50] <@xurich> make a forum topic specifically for this purpose
[18:50] <@Kenix> How am I supposed to do everything on my own xurich
[18:50] <@Kenix> when most admins
[18:50] <@Kenix> couldnt be arsed
[18:50] <@Kenix> to actually answer
[18:50] <@xurich> who says you are?
[18:50] <@Kenix> my threads
[18:50] <@Kenix> right?
[18:50] <@Kenix> well
[18:51] <@Kenix> I have to
[18:51] <@Kenix> otherwise this league is dead it seems
[18:51] <@Kenix> but I didn't
[18:51] <@Kenix> I've gone for the threads
[18:51] <@xurich> let's suppose for a second that that's true
[18:51] <@Kenix> I've gone for the side chats
[18:51] <@Kenix> probably not even enough of them
[18:51] <@xurich> does that give you the right to just invite new admins at your whim
[18:51] <@Kenix> It was not me
[18:51] <@Kenix> alone
[18:51] <@Kenix> right?
[18:51] <@Kenix> I didn't take the right
[18:51] <@Kenix> to decide it on my own
[18:51] <@xurich> no, but you were part of a trio
[18:51] <@Kenix> because from what all of us
[18:51] <@Kenix> the whole trio
[18:51] <@xurich> making the dumbest decision that's ever been made here
[18:51] <@Kenix> if you wanna call it like that
[18:51] <@Kenix> the dumbest  decision
[18:51] <@Kenix> xurich
[18:51] <@Kenix> what are you?
[18:51] <@Kenix> He?
[18:51] <@Kenix> seriously
[18:52] <@Kenix> I am sorry, we probably
[18:52] <@Kenix> misunderstood it
[18:52] <@Kenix> but the fact
[18:52] <@Kenix> that it has been
[18:52] <@Kenix> all 3 of us
[18:52] <@xurich> yes, it was the worst decision that's been made here since i've been here
[18:52] <@Kenix> misunderstanding
[18:52] <@Kenix> was it?
[18:52] <@Kenix> so our candidates
[18:52] <@Kenix> they suck
[18:52] <@xurich> absolutely
[18:52] <@Kenix> right?
[18:52] <@xurich> no, I PROBABLY would have agreed to them myself, but I was not given that opportunity
[18:52] <@Kenix> that must be the case
[18:52] <@xurich> I feel very robbed of the last thing that I wanted to do here
[18:52] <@Kenix> Because we felt that every admin
[18:52] <@Kenix> agrees
[18:52] <@Kenix> on taking our helpers in
[18:53] <@Kenix> I've spend the whole day
[18:53] <@Kenix> talking to other admins
[18:53] <@Kenix> I never had the impression
[18:53] <@Kenix> that you didn't agree
[18:53] <@Kenix> reko was here, ds was here
[18:53] <@Kenix> they both didn't raise any concerns
[18:53] <@xurich> this is a big decision to be made in a couple of hour time span
[18:54] <@xurich> and it requires that every admin is notified and has the opportunity to speak
[18:54] <@xurich> that is the whole point
[18:54] <@Kenix> Asti was here as well
[18:54] <@Kenix> yeah okay
[18:54] <@Kenix> I will say it again
[18:54] <@Kenix> the problem
[18:54] <@Kenix> and the whole misunderstanding is
[18:54] <@Kenix> that we had the impression
[18:54] <@Kenix> that all admins
[18:54] <@Kenix> already
[18:54] <@xurich> how could you have that impression
[18:54] <@Kenix> gave their yes
[18:54] <@xurich> when I didn't give that opinion
[18:54] <@Kenix> because every admin said
[18:54] <@xurich> and in fact made my opinion quite clear that it was the opposite
[18:54] <@Kenix> "I am okay with taking the helpers in"
[18:54] <@xurich> I've never said that
[18:54] <@xurich> and you won't find an example of me saying it in any log or forum post
[18:55] <@Kenix> well
[18:55] <@Kenix> I found one, but I gotta admit I forgot about the application part
[18:55] <@Kenix> you suggested
[18:56] <@Kenix> that is indeed stupid by me
[18:56] <@xurich> I do not expect you to agree with me 100%, but if you do not see the fault in the way that you've handled this matter, you're in for more trouble later
[18:57] <@Kenix> I see the fault
[18:57] <@Kenix> yet I hope you#re going to tell your friends in the exact same way about it
[18:57] <@Kenix> whatever, I can only explain it to you by telling you
[18:57] <@xurich> I don't know what you mean
[18:57] <@Kenix> that this must have been a misunderstanding there
[18:57] <@Kenix> and I'm pretty sure you are the only one who has a problem with it
[18:57] <@xurich> maybe, I don't know
[18:57] <@xurich> I don't know because there's no post about it
[18:57] <@xurich> and no discussion about it
[18:58] <@xurich> that I can reference
[18:58] <@Kenix> I can give you all the channel logs
[18:58] <@xurich> lol
[18:58] <@Kenix> if you want that
[18:58] <@xurich> yeah that will help me a lot now that the decision has already been made
[18:58] <@Kenix> I didn't want to downgrade you lol
[18:58] <@Kenix> I think
[18:58] <@Kenix> noone of us wanted to
[18:58] <@Kenix> or do you think people like ricr and zero
[18:59] <@Kenix> who have been playing and talking with you
[18:59] <@Kenix> a dozen of hours
[18:59] <@Kenix> would do so?
[18:59] <@Kenix> I doubt it
[18:59] <@Kenix> and neither do I want to do so
[18:59] <@Kenix> we've been too eager here, maybe
[18:59] <@xurich> I understand, but I made it VERY clear to you that this is the last thing that I wanted to do officially during my time as admin in this league
[18:59] <@Kenix> but I think that's because finally something was moving
[18:59] <@xurich> it was important to me to be able to pick my own successors
[19:00] <@xurich> I know it might not seem like it now, but I have dedicated A LOT of time and energy to this league, and this last decision was important to me because it meant that I could have some control over its future even while no longer being an active participant
[19:00] <@Kenix> yeah I know that
[19:00] <@Kenix> I guess that has to be blamed on me then
[19:01] <@Kenix> since I was the only one who should've known about the importance of this for you
[19:01] <@xurich> I may not be very active anymore but I still care very much for the success of this league, and I wanted to help ensure that it would be successful by choosing the people who would replace 'us'
[19:01] <@Kenix> at least the others
[19:01] <@Kenix> didn't know about the whole importance
[19:02] <@xurich> to me it's irrelevant—it's OBVIOUS that you do not appoint admins like that
[19:02] <@xurich> at least I thought so
[19:02] <@xurich> ricr............
[19:02] <@xurich> I don't know what he's thinking
[19:02] <@xurich> maybe he's not thinking
[19:02] <@Kenix> maybe you believe into the misunderstanding thing nopw
[19:02] <@Kenix> because that is the only way I can explain you what happened
[19:03] <@Kenix> we didn't feel like we would appoint admins in any other way
[19:03] <@Kenix> than we did in the past
[19:04] <@Kenix> our whole communication broke down this season
[19:04] <@Kenix> we didn't decide anything
[19:04] <@Kenix> by the forum anymore
[19:04] <@Kenix> that explains you probably why we felt like
[19:04] <@Kenix> everyone gave their opinion
[19:05] <@Kenix> did you actually talk to ricr about his feelings concerning the admin title?
[19:05] <@Kenix> lately?
[19:05] <@Kenix> he is just as frustrated
[19:05] <@Kenix> as everyone else
[19:05] <@Kenix> because nothing is moving
[19:05] <@Kenix> I am sorry
[19:05] <@Kenix> though
[19:05] <@Kenix> I didn't want to take you your last chance
[19:05] <@Kenix> really not lol
[19:06] <@Kenix> if you want to blame someone for not asking you in detail
[19:06] <@Kenix> then blame me
[19:06] <@Kenix> as ricr and zero
[19:06] <@Kenix> didn't know about what you told me
[19:06] <@Kenix> I had so many conversations that I forgot about this detail
[19:07] <@xurich> don't worry about it
[19:07] <@xurich> it's done
03[19:07] * Retrieving #sctfl.staff modes...
[19:08] <@xurich> but in the future I would avoid making major decisions by irc alone
[19:08] <@xurich> it's always been problematic
[19:08] <@Kenix> you're probably right
01[19:08] <_Freeman_> Guys nothing is offical yet, you can reverse your decision and yea think about what your next step is etc.  I think I talk for the both of us (me and gor) by saying that we dont want to be the reason for more tensions than it already is
[19:08] <@xurich> minor things it doesn't matter
[19:08] <gor> True
12[19:08] <@xurich> _Freeman_ I love you, man
[19:08] <@xurich> I would have agreed to you guys being admin anyway
[19:08] <@xurich> I just wanted the opportunity to actually agree
03[19:08] * xurich sets mode: +oo _Freeman_ gor
[19:09] <@xurich> welcome to the club and sorry for making you feel uneasy in your entrance
[19:09] <@Kenix> no
[19:09] <@Kenix> you are right xurich
[19:09] <@Kenix> we've been too eager again
[19:09] <@Kenix> maybe I should just quit the admin thing myself
[19:09] <@Kenix> I guess I'm doing too many mistakes
12[19:09] <@xurich> (1:09pm) —› •Q• chanlev #sctfl.staff _Freeman_ +ao
12[19:09] <@xurich> (1:09pm) -Q- User _Freeman_ is not authed.
12[19:09] <@xurich> come on _Freeman_
[19:09] <@xurich> man up
[19:09] <@xurich> Kenix lol no
[19:09] <@xurich> we've all done stupid things here
[19:09] <@xurich> like I said don't worry about it
[19:10] <@Kenix> you are right xurich
[19:10] <@Kenix> you fucking told me
[19:10] <@Kenix> you wanted to take part
[19:10] <@Kenix> and I didn't think about it
[19:10] <@Kenix> as well as I probably offended to many of you
05[19:10] -Q- You are now logged in as Freeman88.
05[19:10] -Q- Remember: NO-ONE from QuakeNet will ever ask for your password.  NEVER send your password to ANYONE except Q@CServe.quakenet.org.
[19:10] <@Kenix> by pushing this forward
[19:10] <@Kenix> without talking enough to you
01[19:10] <@_Freeman_> done xurich and ty  =)
[19:11] <@Kenix> but one thing is for sure xurich
[19:11] <@Kenix> I didn't lie to you
[19:11] <@Kenix> by saying
[19:11] <@Kenix> I misunderstood the whole thing
[19:11] <@Kenix> i really thought
[19:11] <@Kenix> everyone
[19:11] <@Kenix> is behind us
[19:11] <@xurich> like I said earlier, I was never offended, Kenix, and all that you said in your posts was true
[19:11] <@Kenix> I am no talent in organizing such a huge thing, but I really try my best
[19:11] <@Kenix> I probably love this league as much as you do
[19:12] <@Kenix> so do I love the game itself
[19:12] <@Kenix> I would do a fucking hell to rescue it
[19:12] <@Kenix> but yeah
[19:12] <@Kenix> fuck
[19:12] <@Kenix> I am sorry
02[19:13] * martty (~martty@lion.puttynuts.com) Quit (Ping timeout)
03[19:13] * martty (~martty@lion.puttynuts.com) has joined #sctfl.staff
[19:13] <@Kenix> I always knew and valued
[19:13] <@Kenix> all the energy you put into this
[19:13] <@Kenix> because I understand you so well
02[19:13] * +Toumaz (~toumaz@foxnoi.se) Quit (Ping timeout)
[19:13] <@xurich> it's ok
[19:13] <@Kenix> and now I just robbed you the possibility
[19:13] <@xurich> honestly you're the best admin right now, because you have the most passion
[19:13] <@xurich> and that's what this league needs
[19:13] <@xurich> a lack of passion is why it's been sliding downhill the past few seasons
[19:13] <@Kenix> I'd be glad if you could see
[19:14] <@Kenix> my position
[19:14] <@Kenix> or you probably do
[19:14] <@Kenix> I always wanted to be a perfect admin
[19:14] <@Kenix> you kno
[19:14] <@Kenix> inside as well as outside
[19:14] <@xurich> there's no such thing :-)
[19:14] <@Kenix> so it actually hits me more than you'd think
[19:14] <@Kenix> that I've done such a crucial mistake
[19:15] <@Kenix> I don't wanna build up a dictatorship or anything
[19:15] <@xurich> well I wouldn't call it a crucial mistake
[19:15] <@Kenix> I actually want to implement a new vote system
[19:15] <@Kenix> etc
[19:15] <@xurich> it probably only matters to me personally
[19:15] <@Kenix> so everyone could take part of the deciding thing
[19:15] <@Kenix> yeah I understand why
[19:15] <@Kenix> because at one poin
[19:15] <@Kenix> point
[19:15] <@Kenix> you've been like me
[19:15] <@Kenix> full of passion and energy
[19:15] <@Kenix> and you invested a lot of time
[19:15] <@xurich> but selecting new admins is literally the most important job we have, because our decision affects all future decisions as well
[19:15] <@Kenix> and I probably took you the chance to have a proper good bye
[19:16] <@xurich> I know you thought that you did, but in the future make sure everybody is agreed or at least has the opportunity to present his/her final opinion
[19:16] <@xurich> in any case, I understand your position here as well. it's been hard to get things organized when there's no many other active admins really helping you
[19:17] <@xurich> and it's easy to overlook things
[19:17] <@xurich> things get cloudy and hectic
[19:17] <@Kenix> yeah
[19:17] <@Kenix> especially if you suck at organizing
[19:17] <@Kenix> I hope you see my good intentions though
[19:17] <@Kenix> that's why I made 3 huge posts
[19:17] <@Kenix> in the forum
[19:17] <@Kenix> that's basically why I tried to move the whole discussion to the forum
[19:18] <@Kenix> because everyone could read it and take part
[19:18] <@xurich> I should have been more proactive in responding to your posts for sure
[19:18] <@Kenix> I actually tried the whole time
[19:18] <@xurich> I'm still going to respond to the huge changes one :-D
[19:19] <@Kenix> I am so sorry xurich
[19:19] <@Kenix> I always respected you a lot
[19:19] <@Kenix> and so it's even worse for me
[19:19] <@Kenix> that I fucked it up for you
[19:20] <@Kenix> oh well
[19:20] <@xurich> you're making me feel bad now lol :-(
[19:20] <@Kenix> I hope we can continue with that tomorrow
[19:20] <@xurich> I didn't mean to chew you out that harshly or anything
[19:20] <@xurich> it's ok, man
[19:20] <@xurich> shit happens
[19:20] <@Kenix> it's okay if you did
[19:20] <@Kenix> my gf arrived
[19:20] <@Kenix> I gotta go!
[19:20] <@xurich> the important thing is that the league gets better :-D
[19:20] <@xurich> ok cu
[19:20] <@Kenix> I'll talk to you tomorrow
[19:20] <@Kenix> sorry for leaving that fast
[19:21] <@Kenix> but women you know
[19:21] <@Kenix> they don't appreciate it
[19:21] <@Kenix> if you sit in front of the pc when they arrive
[19:21] <@Kenix> see you tomorrow!
[19:21] <@xurich> lol
[19:21] <@xurich> bye
03[19:21] * Kenix is now known as kenix
03[19:21] * Toumaz (~toumaz@foxnoi.se) has joined #sctfl.staff
03[19:21] * Q sets mode: +v Toumaz
01[19:21] <@_Freeman_> xurich u can always pm me and ill pretend I hear about this whole admin thing for the first time <3 :D
[19:22] <@xurich> fuckin ricr
[19:22] <@xurich> let's kill him
[19:22] <@xurich> you and me
[19:22] <@_Freeman_> he gave me the news! made my day, NO!
[19:22] <@_Freeman_> :D