[12:26:21] ornias -> Adminhelp: ok, i have some real problems with how this CE's acting. at the start of the round, they (without saying a WORD to me) tried to get me arrested and charged for trespassing in the engineering lobby, an area i have *access* to. they promoted themselves to acting captain, with no other heads of staff, over a yellow alert. they promoted an acting HoS as well, over carp, which feels pretty extreme, but maybe isn't as bad as everything else.
[12:26:28] ornias -> Adminhelp: (CONTINUED POST) and this is without the fact that they're not really acting like a robot, which I guess is a lore team thing. and some people (his subordinates) just tried to talk to him about an actual issue they're having in-round, and he blew them off claiming he's 'busy' and to 'talk to the HoS'. but he's just building something above the medical lobby, under the excuse that it "doesn't bother anyone" and "isn't an issue to have spare room for medical". it just feels REALLY mean-spirited.
[12:31:39] thegoret -> ornias: You wanted access to maint?
[12:31:46] ornias -> thegoret: no?
[12:31:54] thegoret -> ornias: Also what was your occupation?
[12:32:06] ornias -> thegoret: reporter. idk what you mean abbout the maint access lol, i never asked for access to anywhere
[12:32:41] thegoret -> ornias: Nevermind, it was another person.
[12:33:43] ornias -> thegoret: okie dokie. also, i forgot, they also said something in looc to the effect of "Great, a reporter that doesn't care about trespassing charges", which is like, pretty passive aggressive. i tried to take it in good fun and all, but it hasn't really ended up feeling like that was the intent
[12:33:53] thegoret -> ornias: For me its kinda an IC issue. Its their rights if they don't want you into engineering. As for the character itself, if you think there's a problem you could bring that up in a character complaint.
[12:34:39] thegoret -> ornias: As for the LOOC thingie, it was a joke apparently.
[12:35:04] ornias -> thegoret: how on earth is trying to get someone arrested without even TALKING to them 30 seconds into the round an IC thing? and demanding that there be a punishment over the common radio. imagine if i'd been a new player
[12:35:38] ornias -> thegoret: like, i play an intrusive character and all, but you need to TALK to people. heads of staff ESPECIALLY.
[12:37:11] ornias -> thegoret: like, round start, i walk into engineering, say "Ah-ha!",, and he says ";ISD. The reporter just trespassed into Engineering. Please remove them. Apply a trespassing charge. Thank you' (
[12:38:04] thegoret -> ornias: Heads of staff can be bitchy and remove you from their department if they want. Also, you had some more time in engineering from what the say.
[12:38:10] thegoret -> ornias: they*
[12:38:40] thegoret -> ornias: I'm kinda conflicted because I don't have the logs, so its difficult to have a really objective point of view.
[12:38:51] ornias -> thegoret: I can literally give you ANY logs you need. This is a really absurd stance to take.
[12:39:03] thegoret -> ornias: Then give them?
[12:39:19] ornias -> thegoret: WHAT do you need me to give, Goret? I gave you WORD FOR WORD what transpired at round start.
[12:39:24] ornias -> thegoret: Literally NOTHING ELSE was said.
[12:39:28] thegoret -> ornias: Calm down.
[12:40:08] thegoret -> ornias: Screen me logs. The full interaction.
[12:40:11] ornias -> thegoret: You're the one who gave a sarcastic 'Then give them?', Goret. You need to tell me what I need to help your investigation, not expect me to be
[12:40:20] ornias -> thegoret: Yeah, ok. 20 secs, I'll pastebin them.
[12:40:31] thegoret -> ornias: I haven't been sarcastic, just asking you to give the logs.
[12:43:19] ornias -> thegoret: https://pastebin.com/gfEGz3aF these are literally from round-start onwards, excluding item set-ups.
[12:46:05] ornias -> thegoret: I didn't illude a single thing about what it said. How do you not view this as a hugely significant issue? If I, a CMO, 15 seconds in, accused someone of petty theft because I didn't like the color of their hair, and told security to arrest them when they hadn't violated any regs, ANY different from this scenario?
[12:46:48] thegoret -> ornias: You rushed inside their department and acted like a weirdo. This is a totally different situation.
[12:46:58] ornias -> thegoret: Acted like a /weirdo/? I SAID 'AH-HA!'
[12:47:08] ornias -> thegoret: How is that acting like a weirdo?????
[12:47:10] thegoret -> ornias: Te Ariki Harwood kneels down, inspecting OVR-FLW!
[12:47:16] ornias -> thegoret: AFTER HE TOLD SEC TO ARREST ME
[12:47:29] thegoret -> ornias: Could you like, calm down?
[12:48:11] thegoret -> ornias: It was before he called sec to arrest you.
[12:48:16] ornias -> thegoret: He called for ISD.
[12:48:19] ornias -> thegoret: Then I kneeled down.
[12:48:35] thegoret -> ornias: Right. I'm done with this. I spoke to them about giving a bit more interaction before calling security.
[12:48:38] ornias -> thegoret: No.
[12:48:41] ornias -> thegoret: Hold on like
[12:49:02] ornias -> thegoret: You can't just act like I'm being a fucking child because I'm annoyed, show that you HAVEN'T read the logs properly, and then say "I'm done with this".
[12:49:27] thegoret -> ornias: I can. Because I made my decision. I told you that I spoke with them. The issue is resolved, do you understand that?
[12:49:31] ornias -> thegoret: I want another staff member on this, man. Someone who's actually invested in trying to find out what's going on.
[12:50:53] thegoret -> ornias: Cut the passive agressive now, because I'm starting to get annoyed. You'll not get any other staff members, because its resolved. So let me do a recap: You acted like a weirdo, and rushed in engineering. They called security immediatly, which was quite fair since you acted like a weird guy, but I still spoke to them about giving interaction. What do you want more than that?
[12:52:44] ornias -> thegoret: You're being leagues more passive-aggressive than me, man. I'm frustrated because you haven't given me any indication you're actually trying to follow the events that transpired- frequently getting info wrong, giving a passive-aggressive 'Then give them?', telling me to 'calm down' when I capitalized specific words for emphasis. I don't know what you talked to them about, but I've got no faith whatsoever that what you told them was actually representative of the issues I had.
[12:52:59] ornias -> thegoret: plus, ALL the other stuff i brought up i still don't know whether got resolved or not.
[12:53:34] ornias -> thegoret: like, you literally said "You acted like a weirdo, and rushed in engineering. They called security immediatly, which was quite fair since you acted like a weird guy,". That sentence has errors, or REALLY subjective statements in it. That's why I feel like my issue is unresolved.
[12:54:51] pratepresidenten -> ornias: Hewwo bby, what is up
[12:55:00] pratepresidenten -> ornias: I hear you has dem issues
[12:55:17] ornias -> pratepresidenten: Hi Prate. Ornias here. I has dem issues. Did you follow the previous ahelp, or should I reclarify?
[12:55:25] pratepresidenten -> ornias: Just give me a tldr
[12:56:45] ornias -> pratepresidenten: I feel like the CE has done some really shady stuff this round, that kind of paints them as being mean-spirited. The main two are: 1. Calling sec over the public radio to arrest me 30 seconds into the round over something that isn't against regs, without even saying a word to me. 2. Blowing off it's subordinates under the pretense of being 'busy' to go and build something abbove medical. I'll get the logs for that, because that might make it more clear why the second one's a big issue for me.
[12:58:05] pratepresidenten -> ornias: Lets start with one. Why were you going to be arrested?
[12:58:57] ornias -> pratepresidenten: Sure. I'm having trouble finding logs because BYOND scroll is a shitter anways. I was going to be arrested for trespassing for entering engineering at round start. I was a corporate reporter, and thus have access to engineering, but even if I wasn't, it strikes me as incredibly mean-spirted to immediately call security before saying a word to the person that's just entered.
[12:59:28] pratepresidenten -> ornias: You were in there to ask questions?
[13:00:01] ornias -> pratepresidenten: More or less, yes. But for how the IPC acted, that information doesn't matter- they had absolutely no way to know what I was there for, so my actual motivations were completely irrelevant.
[13:01:24] pratepresidenten -> ornias: Well, to be fair, it is the head of staff's prerogative to be a dictator over their own department, denying anyone access that they dont want in there, even if you have access. The thing is you cant really be charged with anything unless you go against a direct order not to come to engineering. Were you charged with anything?
[13:02:29] ornias -> pratepresidenten: No, security took a while to respond, and it was eventually belayed. I don't know why it changed its mind. I don't argue that the IPC had the physical ability to tell me to leave- although that would still be quite mean spirited, IMO. Let me toss you the pastebin.
[13:02:48] pratepresidenten -> ornias: Shure
[13:02:54] ornias -> thegoret: https://pastebin.com/gfEGz3aF
[13:03:16] ornias -> thegoret: Note that it literally did not say a WORD to me, and called for ISD before I had said a word.
[13:03:44] pratepresidenten -> ornias: Wrong moderrino
[13:04:04] ornias -> pratepresidenten: Whoops, the ticket system is weird. Does that work?
[13:04:06] ornias -> pratepresidenten: Beaut
[13:04:23] pratepresidenten -> ornias: Less seee herrrre.. One moment
[13:07:05] pratepresidenten -> ornias: Were you actually charged with anything?
[13:07:27] ornias -> pratepresidenten: Nope. After security took a while to respond, it changed it's mind. I don't know why.
[13:08:42] pratepresidenten -> ornias: Hokay. Although they can have you removed from their department, you should never be charged with trespassing for areas you have access to. But he's well within his rights to have you removed, even if it seems mean.
[13:08:51] ornias -> pratepresidenten: Yeah, no, I agree with you there.
[13:09:14] pratepresidenten -> ornias: Now, onwards to theee.. Second issue. He didnt want to help his underlings build some stuff?
[13:09:18] ornias -> thegoret: But you've got to talk to the person instead of just calling security. Even just a "Hey, you can't be in here." or "Hey, how did you get in here?" or anything- yea
[13:09:28] ornias -> pratepresidenten: No, that's not what happened. Let me explain;
[13:09:33] pratepresidenten -> ornias: Im just gonna reopen the ticket, one moment




[13:09:37] pratepresidenten -> ornias: Boop
[13:09:51] pratepresidenten -> ornias: Dont type into the previous convo, it will all be lost!
[13:09:58] ornias -> pratepresidenten: Ebic. I don't know EXACTLY what happened, but after there was like a yellow alert or something, it- is this the right convo?
[13:10:05] pratepresidenten -> ornias: Yes
[13:10:59] ornias -> pratepresidenten: Yep. After there was a yellow alert (for carp I think?). It promoted iitself to captain, which I feel was super, super hasty, but again, I suppose that's arguabbly IC. They also promoted an interim HoS. Which leads to...
[13:11:32] pratepresidenten -> ornias: The current hos is interim?
[13:11:38] ornias -> pratepresidenten: Later, they start building in the medical lobby. IDK whether they're still captain, or a CE again, but they're building on the space above. I don't really have an issue with this OOCly-
[13:11:56] ornias -> pratepresidenten: IDK about what's transpiring currently, I'm afraid. I haven't been paying attention to what happened after my first ahelp.
[13:13:47] ornias -> pratepresidenten: Anywho. . .
[13:13:55] pratepresidenten -> ornias: It looks like things has normalized a little now though.
[13:15:05] ornias -> pratepresidenten: Yeah, IDK. Again, this isn't my main big issue- if it wants to promote itself to captain on tennuous grounds, that's not really my beef. But, later, when things HAD calmed down somewhat, and it was building above the medical lobby, a couple of his engineers tried to stop it to ask it something. It said, pretty much verbatim, "Busy. Talk to the HoS" and walked off when they were responding.
[13:15:35] ornias -> pratepresidenten: But they were building something non-vital; non-important, even; cutting out all interaction with their subbordinates.
[13:16:35] ornias -> pratepresidenten: I felt that was also mean-spirited, and very poor CE play. A Head of Staff, as everyone who's gotten the whitelist since the dawn of man has said in their whitelist app, is meant to interact with their underlings and work with them to achieve stuff. That's a responsibility people have as a head of staff.
[13:18:23] pratepresidenten -> ornias: Although this isnt spesifically against the rules, cutting rp 4noraisins does seem a bit bad. But was this dismissal before anything happened, or was it during all this blob shit and whatnot?
[13:20:30] ornias -> pratepresidenten: IDK. I didn't see a blob or anythiing like that transpiring, but as a ghost, it's easy to miss this stuff. But if there WAS, that only would make things worse that they were using the blob as an excuse to go off and build above medical. It might not be against the rules for a normal player, but as a head of staff that is one of their responsibilities.
[13:21:18] ornias -> pratepresidenten: They were refurbishing floors and stuff, for note. Not, like, fighting a blob, if you're thinking that might explain it.
[13:21:24] pratepresidenten -> ornias: Either case, they were told to be a little more forthcoming, so that should take in de future I hope.
[13:23:03] ornias -> pratepresidenten: Great, okay. And, just to check- the first case was unabbashedly wrong and punishable action if repeated, right? I don't want to be a little child or anything, but I can't really say I'm satisfied unless I know they've been directly told not to repeat it.
[13:23:55] pratepresidenten -> ornias: If someone charges you with tresspassing for entering an area you have access to, and it being your "First offence", you bet your butt there will be administrative hellfury
[13:24:21] pratepresidenten -> ornias: And they were told by my precious trial, and by myself aswell
[13:24:34] ornias -> pratepresidenten: Ah, but I didn't get charged!!!!! Sneaky devil!!!!!!!!!!!
[13:24:52] pratepresidenten -> ornias: I know, but if you should EVER be, ahelp dat shiz
[13:25:27] ornias -> pratepresidenten: Lovely and true. But, charging aside, the SPECIFIC THING that occurred earlier this shift WAS against the rules, right? Even though I didn't end up getting charged for whatever reason.
[13:26:25] pratepresidenten -> ornias: Nothing he did was really against the rules, just poor IC form
[13:27:05] ornias -> pratepresidenten: I knew it!!
[13:27:14] pratepresidenten -> ornias: :mag:
[13:27:18] ornias -> pratepresidenten: I'm just going to make a complaint on the forums, at this point. Cheers for looking into my issue.
[13:27:24] ornias -> pratepresidenten: Love u prate and goret. mwah
[13:27:27] pratepresidenten -> ornias: <3