Debate Breakdown - 1/14/20

Breakdown of Coconut-Crab vs. Corvette1710
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To promote transparency in my judgement I will be keeping track of what I think helps/hurts the arguments of the people I am judging.  If something benefits an argument a plus, like this: (+) will be next to it, if it hurts, a (-) minus.
Additionally, at the end of each response I will keep track of the arguments I buy into.
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Coco R1:

1) Krystal Drake's Efficacy

a. Presents Stats for Krystal

 * No evidence provided (-)

 * Throwing numbers at a wall is eh

b. Ryuko lacks sufficient resistance to heat, and Krystal Drake is stronger

 * Note: I don't see how energy density is relevant to Krystal Drake's abilities

c. Aku isn't MCB (provides evidence of being building)

 c1. Aku's esoterics aren't effective

 c2. Aku lacks sufficent heat resistance to Krystal Drake

 c3. Aku won't fight seriously

d. Brimstone and Krystal Drake is the most likely match up

 d1. Krystal won't use fire on a fire being

 d2. Brimstone can't burn Krystal

	* Again feats referenced, but not linked (-)

 d3. Brimstone lacks MCB strength, best feat is cavern roof busting

	* While not as bad as earlier, still throwing numbers around

 d4. Brimstone isn't durable (attacks scaling)

	* Again no meaningful scale reference for how numbers scale

2) Kaido's Efficacy

a. Vs. Ryuko

 a1. Kaido has better endurance and can hit Ryuko back far

	* No reference/mention of Ryuko's durability (-)

 a2. Scales Kaido to ~MCB

 a3. Argues Kaido won't hold back

 a4. Dragon form blast is castle/top of mountain busting

	* Again no reference to Ryuko's durability

b. Vs. Aku

 b1. Kaido is stronger than a guy who hurt Aku

	* Showing how strong the stone samurai is would be nice/mentioning if he has no good feats

 b2. Kaido can take a hefty fall/Luffy

 * No scaling for Luffy (-) and doesn't show condition post fall

c. Vs. Brimstone

 c1. Kaido has superior physicals

 c2. Kaido can avoid touching Brimstone via his club

 c3. Brimstone's size makes it harder to hit Kaido

3) Big Mom's Efficacy

a. Mom has ~=~ physicals to Kaido

b. Vs. Ryuko

 b1. Mom opens with a lightning attack, with Ryuko has no resistance to

 b2. Prometheus is something that does something that takes out Ryuko

 b3. If Ryuko is scared then soul fuckery goes on

 b4. Ryuko can't cut Big Mom (as no needle/most weapons can per scan) + scaling

c. Vs. Aku

 c1. Can't hurt Mom due to Luffy/Jinbe scaling

	* No scaling (-)

 c2. Mom has a number of one shot/viable attacks

d. Vs. Brimstone

 d1. She has sufficient heat resistance due to Prometheus (which is apparently heat?)

	* No scaling/heat scans for Prometheus (-)

 d2. She is physically superior to Brimstone

 d3. She won't use a fire attack on a being made of fire

 d4. Can one shot via piercing or soul hackery

4) Misc Advantages

a. Coco's team can fly, giving them a range advantage

b. Coco's entire team has a physical advantage over the entirety of Corv's

c. Coco's team has a versatile set of esoterics

d. Mom + Kaido know each other and have worked together = teamwork advantage

e. Corv's team all have personality flaws that make them act less that serious, while Coco's team doesn't


Takeaways:

* Agree that Coco's team is (generally) physically superior

* Agree that Coco's team has a number of likely one shot esoterics

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Corv R1:

1) Brimstone's Efficacy

a. Opponents can't touch Brimstone due to how hot his exterior is

 a1. Calc's Brimstone's Temp

	* Referencing me as an authority is eh, justify why assumptions are valid/stand on their own (-)

 a2. Scales to solar temps vs. Firestorm

 a3. Big Mom/Kaido lack the heat resistant to survive his heat ergo can't touch him

 a4. Uses heat to scale Brimstone's sword to being able to cut Krystal (???)

	* This seems like a large logical jump, and I don't entirely grasp it (-)

 a5. He will use the sword on Krystal

b. Brimstone is durable

 b1. Links a few feats for dura

 b2. Scales to Ray + does some pixel calcing to estimate Ray's power output

	* Stating assumptions for this psuedo-calc would be nice

	* Pretty sure that DB's crater is more than 10 m

 b3. Lightning attacks don't hurt Brimstone due to electromagnetic resist

 b4. Brimstone is immune to fire attacks

2) Ryuko's Efficacy

a. Concedes Brimstone and Krystal fight

b. She can destroy a large amount of stone, which would let her hurt Krystal

c. She can read minds

 * Evidence is uh.....

d. She has good dura (Takes a hit from a cannon that tears up a battleship)

 d1. Similar to Kaido's dragon breath feat

 d2. Tanks similar attacks to what Big Mom outputs (whose under tier)

e. Her Piercing

 e1. Can cut Kaido (no piercing resist)

 e2. Big Mom's statement's have no bearing/she has no objective feats

 e3.  Provides numerous feats for Ryuko's sword cutting big/metally things

3) Aku's Efficacy

a. Decides to not argue Aku's personality

b. Aku has a number of attack options

 b1. He can crush them

 b2. Shove them into an option

 b3. Tentacle Slam (?)

 b4. Spike attacks

 b5. Make evil doppleganger clones

 b6. Scales Jack's heat resistance to make Aku's heat attacks better

c. A ton of more options for things he can do (shrinking, teleporting, etc.)

d. Aku is immune to conventional damage(?)


Takeaways:

* Ryuko has better physicals than Coco presented

* Ryuko can at least cut Kaido, maybe Big Mom

* Most of Coco's team can't touch Brimstone

* Brimstone's heat kills 2/3 of his opponents

* Aku has a ton of options of varying efficacy

Failure to Counter:

* Most of the personality stuff Coco brought up

* Soul hackery stuff

* Electricity efficacy on anyone other than Brimstone

* Piercing efficacy (especially against Brimstone)

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Coco R2:

1) Brimstone Stuff

a. Feats > Calcs

 a1. Stuff doesn't melt when it touches Brimstone

 a2. Firestorm goes inside of Brimstone and is fine

 a3. Fireblasts don't do much to a stone structure

b. Brimstone's sword isn't good enough to hurt Krystal

c. All of Brimstone's strength feats are sub-MCB

d. Krystal's piercing shreds Brimstone

2) Ryuko Stuff

a. Provided strength feats for Ryuko are under tier

b. No clue what Coco means from with his TP rebuttal

c. (Some of) Ryuko's provided durability feats are well below under tier

 c1. Heat feat isn't clearly enough to contend with Coco's team

d. Big Mom's piercing resistant is good + evidence

 d1. Kaido also can't be cut

e. Doubles down on esoterics

3) Aku Stuff

a. Aku isn't MCB

b. Addressed the dump of possible attacks Aku has


Takeaways:

* Brimestone's sword isn't good enough to hurt Krystal

* Ryuko has under tier strength

* Ryuko is vulnerable to heat attacks

Failure to Counter:

* I don't buy that Kaido can't be cut

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Corv R2:

1) Unsubstantiated Claims

a. Krystal's strength has never been substantiated/compared

 a1. Ditto for heat resistance

b. No evidence for a lot of Aku's stuff

c. Coco failed to actually address Ryuko's clearer cutting feats

d. Attacked various Coco's feat interp on various claims

e. Brimstone doesn't have a soul

2) General Rebuttals

a. Explosion feats are heat resistance

b. Aku's mountain feat is MCB

d. Aku has heat resistance

e. Scan dumps a ton of Brimstone dura scans (-)

f. No proof that Kaido can touch Brimstone's skin even with club

 f1. Brimstone can tag supersonic objects via Ray scaling

g. Ryuko takes vague arcing

f. Big Mom Piercing

 f1. Ryuko has good cutting

 f2. Big Mom's scaling isn't great

3) At this point I'm dividing it for fun

a. Corv's entire team can fly

b. Brimstone is functionally immune to esoterics

c. Character's personality Personality

 c1. Aku is an evil warlord/mass murderer

 c2. Context on Ryuko

 c3. Brimestone is crazy in a goooood way


Takeaways:

* Krystal is ehhhhhhhhh

* Ryuko can cut Kaido

* A lot of Coco's claims are ehhhhhh

* Aku is better than Coco presents

Failure to Counter:

* Don't buy that explosions are heat resistance

* Aku's heat resistance is sufficent

* Aku will be serious/as effective as presented unserious

* Ryuko's esoteric resistance

* Big Mom piercing resistance



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General Notes:

* Coco's inability/unwillingness to explain the implications of the numbers Krystal Drake has is a notable detriment.  Throwing big numbers at a wall is not a valid debating strategy.

* Corv does a poor job explaining why the assumptions in his calcs are valid