05[15:30] <nch> hello everyone and welcome to this completely unmoderated IRC channel
05[15:30] <nch> for a pre-ICT discussion of the poll
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05[15:31] <nch> let's begin
05[15:31] <nch> by discussing the #25 team
05[15:31] <nch> Florida
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[15:31] <heterodyne> who has played florida
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05[15:32] <nch> the Florida roster consists, I assume, of Taylor Harvey, Alex Shaw, Jonathen Settle, and Tracy Mirkin
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05[15:32] <nch> I played them last year but I'm working off very little knowledge here
[15:32] <JLewis> Tracy will be playing DII for ict right?
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05[15:33] <nch> a good question
[15:33] <heterodyne> that seems quite relevant as Tracy was their second scorer at cmst
[15:33] <jhawk> so i played them at last years ICT and it seemed like Taylor is probably a pretty solid generalist anchor
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05[15:34] <nch> Taylor is in this room right now
[15:34] <Taylor> Tracy is playing D2 for us
05[15:34] <nch> ah
05[15:34] <nch> thanks
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05[15:34] <nch> what's the roster for ACF Nationals and D1 ICT
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[15:35] <Taylor> Our fourth at ICT is John, who is pretty good at current events and recent history, with some trash knowledge as well
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[15:35] <Taylor> ICT for us: Taylor, Alex, Jonathen, John
[15:35] <Taylor> Nats: swap John for Tracy
05[15:35] <nch> thnks
05[15:35] <nch> thanks
[15:35] <SaulKornheiser> the three who aren't john were on the team that played my michigan b team close at last year's ict. my memory is that they were pretty balanced in scoring and didn't make mistakes
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05[15:37] <nch> it looks like Tracy primarily gets history, Taylor literature, and Jonathen science
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05[15:37] <nch> with Alex getting various other stuff
05[15:37] <nch> anyway, in the interests of time
05[15:37] <nch> we're moving on to #24
05[15:37] <nch> Johns Hopkins
05[15:37] <nch> this is a team I have seen a fair amount and I'm not really sure why they're ranked where they are
[15:38] <gettysburg11> Underranked, this is a strong team
[15:38] <jhawk> Hopkins is extremely underrated
[15:38] <ryu> there was a post about them
[15:38] <gamegeek2> very good at science, arts, and myth
[15:38] <gamegeek2> less good at other areas
05[15:38] <nch> only playing ACF Nationals, as I understand
[15:38] <wcheng> should be rated above us at maryland for sure
[15:38] <jhawk> Every time i see eric play he gets a really solid music buzz
[15:38] <gettysburg11> Eric's a good scientist
[15:39] <jhawk> robert brings a lot of extra scoring and watch out for Seth especially at ICT he seems to bring a good deal of NAQT fire power to the table
[15:39] <gettysburg11> I'm not sure exactly how their lineups will look but him and Robert both have pretty solid specialist ability
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05[15:40] <nch> yeah, the new additions have been important for Hopkins
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[15:40] <gamegeek2> Probably Walter is on the A team for nats
[15:40] <gamegeek2> Since I take it they played him B team to try to qualify two teams
[15:40] <heterodyne> so what do the rosters look like for JHU
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[15:41] <gamegeek2> Probably Walter, Seth, Eric, Robert for nats
[15:41] <RyanfromDuke> They're only bringing a D2 team to ICT, right?
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[15:41] <gamegeek2> JHU B is a top bracket team for d2
[15:41] <jhawk> they took a solid core which placed 25th at last year's nats and added Harvard's leading scorer and more
05[15:41] <nch> yeah, Will's lineup would also be my guess
05[15:42] <nch> EricB RobertChu
[15:42] <RobertChu> As I understand it A team is me, Eric, Seth, and Noah Stanco, but I could be wrong
05[15:42] <nch> ah
[15:42] <gamegeek2> Presumably Robert knows more than us about his own team
05[15:42] <nch> is anyone at Hopkins graduating this year
[15:43] <heterodyne> yeah seems underranked
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[15:43] <gamegeek2> Don't think anyone graduates
[15:43] <gamegeek2> Seth Robert and Eric are all in grad programs
05[15:43] <nch> this is a very grad-heavy team
05[15:43] <nch> yeah
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05[15:44] <nch> anyway again we'll move on
05[15:44] <nch> if you want to talk more about any team there'll be time at the end
05[15:44] <nch> although last time this happened it turned into a fight about whether Chicago or Michigan was better
05[15:44] <nch> so don't do that please
05[15:44] <nch> #23 Maryland
[15:44] <gamegeek2> Also underranked
05[15:44] <nch> I don't have much to say about this team
[15:44] <jhawk> our roster is Justin hawkins weijia cheng graham Reid and Jack Nolan
05[15:44] <nch> I'll let other people do that
[15:45] <ryu> i ranked them based on watching the qanta video
[15:45] <gamegeek2> Maryland is better than Duke
[15:45] <RyanfromDuke> Agreed on them being underranked
[15:45] <gamegeek2> At harder stuff
05[15:45] <nch> Maryland did end up with an absurdly high A-value
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[15:45] <RyanfromDuke> That I'll disagree with, but UMD is a really balanced team based on our games against them
05[15:45] <nch> it probably doesn't mean anything but it's there
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[15:46] <heterodyne> weijia has some of the deepest knowledge of a category I've ever seen in religion and is no slouch in history and some other humanitiesish stuff
[15:46] <gettysburg11> I think they scale pretty well with Graham in physics and Weijia in religion
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[15:46] <gettysburg11> They'll be OK on history too, lit is their weak spot from what I can tell?
[15:47] <srombro_> Graham is solid on the other sciences too
[15:47] <gamegeek2> At least going by CMST Graham scales reasonably as a generalist now
[15:47] <srombro_> and jack is hella good at math
05[15:47] <nch> Graham's the first real generalist Maryland has had since Dan Puma left
[15:47] <jhawk> jack has put in big strides in music and has a great ability to randomly know things
[15:47] <gamegeek2> This team is weak at philosophy, painting
[15:47] <gamegeek2> Lots of random gaps
[15:47] <jhawk> pour one out for DP
[15:48] <wcheng> myth, other arts
[15:48] <gamegeek2> Justin has gotten very good at late buzzes
[15:48] <wcheng> those are holes for us
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[15:48] <gamegeek2> He's got breadth but lacks depth
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[15:48] <gamegeek2> This may be what is needed at Nationals though
[15:48] <wcheng> gamegeek2: idk about painting, graham and justin are both solid on that
[15:49] <wcheng> we're not elite by any means
[15:49] <gamegeek2> Fair point. I forgot Justin did dunk on Matt and I on painting at CMST
05[15:49] <nch> all right, moving on
05[15:49] <nch> #22 Oxford
05[15:49] <nch> I know literally nothing about this team
[15:49] <gamegeek2> Scales very well
[15:49] <ellie> I know!
05[15:49] <nch> please elaborate
[15:49] <jsmyers> George Corfield is still on this team, yes?
[15:49] <ellie> it's Daoud Jackson, Jacob Robertson, Isaac Brown and George Charlson
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[15:50] <ellie> George corfield is now a junior doctor
[15:50] <jsmyers> oh I see
[15:50] <gamegeek2> Brits in general scale well
[15:50] <ellie> Isaac is being flown in from France
[15:50] <ellie> he's on his year abroad
[15:50] <jsmyers> based on the video of the British regs final I saw they seemed to compete well with Cambridge
[15:50] <ellie> Daoud is super, super strong
[15:50] <ellie> at humanities
[15:50] <ellie> all kinds
[15:50] <gamegeek2> Daoud is also steady
[15:50] <ellie> Jacob is one of most improved player on UK circuit this year
[15:50] <ellie> v good scientist
[15:51] <ellie> Isaac does French and is vg at social science, literature, French things
[15:51] <ellie> George is doing phd in econ
[15:51] <ellie> he has a deep-seated passion for chestnuts
[15:51] <ellie> and has a LOT of real knowledge
[15:52] <jhawk> those chestnuts should carry them far
[15:52] <ellie> in econ, Socsci, general humanities
[15:52] <jsmyers> Hot take: it's kind of sad that it took Jason Golfinos going there to get people to start caring about British QB
05[15:52] <nch> "Brits in general scale well" is an interesting assertion, my impression was that not as much hard stuff gets played in Britain
[15:52] <ellie> I think they are underranked
[15:52] <heterodyne> fuck I assumed john would make us safe on all chestnut-related questions
05[15:52] <nch> which sets Jason Golfinos apart
05[15:52] <nch> although we'll talk about that more when we get to Cambridge
[15:52] <jhawk> did you not see oxford last year???
[15:52] <ellie> Brits scale better than people realise. Ox criminally underranked
[15:52] <ellie> if we're top 10 so should they be
[15:52] <SaulKornheiser> i read for cambridge several times at last year's acf nats and thought they scaled splendidly
05[15:53] <nch> there's video online of our game against Oxford at 2016 Nats, I look unhappy the whole game because I went 0/1
[15:53] <ellie> Brits are very good at The Thing They Study
[15:53] <ellie> because we do one thing and don't take other classes
[15:53] <ellie> (as a generalisation)
[15:54] <ellie> anyway yes
05[15:54] <nch> Oxford's ranking stayed exactly the same from the preseason poll, but given that they don't play non-Chicago American teams during the season I feel like there's some room for variation
[15:54] <ellie> if anyone has questions about British qb i can try and answer
[15:54] <heterodyne> and unfortunately as they wrote OO we have no data there
[15:54] <heterodyne> (we do about cbridge tho!)
[15:55] <ellie> Cam were scattered at OO
05[15:55] <nch> we do have Regionals stats
[15:55] <ellie> since e.g. i formed a breakaway team with GCorf
05[15:55] <nch> Daoud was balanced across the board on non-science categories
05[15:56] <nch> Jacob got all the science
[15:56] <heterodyne> sorry, I meant "we" as in "the chicago team"
[15:56] <heterodyne> the detailed stats are obv helpful
05[15:56] <nch> yeah that was an unrelated thought
[15:56] <gamegeek2> Can someone message me that video link
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05[15:56] <nch> anyway
05[15:56] <nch> now that Joey's here we'll stop talking about Oxford
05[15:57] <nch> and move on to #21 Michigan State
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[15:57] <jsmyers> I have thoughts
05[15:57] <nch> spit them out
05[15:57] <nch> it's now or never
[15:57] <jsmyers> our rosters are going to be Harris Bunker, me, Tony Incorvati, and Erik Bubolz for ICT
[15:57] <heterodyne> imo MSU is underranked a lil, esp for ICT
[15:57] <jsmyers> that but with Evan Suttell instead of Tony for ICT
[15:57] <jsmyers> *Nats
[15:57] <jsmyers> imo we are kind of underranked
[15:58] <Hbunker> we should be a good NAQT team because I know some sports things and Tony is a trash god especially for music. Obv Jakob for CE and geo.
[15:58] <jsmyers> one thing that tends to screw us is that my generalism is kinda weird and only barely extends beyond 10/10 usually
05[15:58] <nch> we haven't really seen how this team plays hard stuff
[15:58] <jsmyers> thus leading to very close games that shouldn't be close (WUSTL at Penn Bowl)
07[15:58] <Hbunker> yeah Naveed's right.
[15:59] <jsmyers> that's true
[15:59] <Hbunker> We have only played like two tournaments together.
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[15:59] <jsmyers> I think CMST stats indicate that Harris scales pretty well
[15:59] <EvanSuttell> Nats will be my first time w that lineup
[15:59] <Hbunker> lol
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[15:59] <jsmyers> and that and CO stats indicate that I do too
[15:59] <jsmyers> but yeah your point about almost no data for us on hard questions is well taken
[16:00] <Hbunker> I scale well on shit that I like and scale poorly on everything else. My hope is that I don't fuck up the tiny bit of the canon that I study.
[16:00] <heterodyne> yeah I'm gonna say that anyone who thinks Jakob can't hack it on hard questions can look to Bork, weird will-alston-boost nonwithstanding
[16:00] <jsmyers> we'll also be without science besides what Harris can provide at Nats so that'll be an adventure
[16:00] <heterodyne> what would you say you're covering harris
05[16:00] <nch> at Regionals, Michigan State just didn't really get biology
[16:00] <Hbunker> we are garbage at bio
[16:00] <SaulKornheiser> michigan has crossed paths with msu surprisingly seldom this year, and agreed on msu being underranked, but my limited experience against something resembling the a-team makes me worry about them negging themselves out of games
05[16:00] <nch> I think this team is still a year away
[16:00] <SamBaSam> Jakob, were you on Andrew Wang's team at CMST?
[16:00] <jsmyers> yeah sometimes I just drop games I very, very should not
[16:00] <jsmyers> yes
[16:00] <heterodyne> I've been sort of under the impression that Tony covers science, Jakob nominally covers everything else, and the other two players contribute points in other areas
[16:01] <Hbunker> Yeah Alston is correct.
05[16:01] <nch> particularly given the lack of science coverage at Nationals
[16:01] <EvanSuttell> no one graduating after this year
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05[16:01] <nch> cool, everyone's coming back
[16:01] <jhawk> its like will the 76ers make the eastern conference finals?
[16:01] <jhawk> or are they a year away
05[16:01] <nch> noticing a trend with a lot of teams here
05[16:01] <nch> not a lot of graduations after this year
[16:01] <Hbunker> Who are the Boston Celtics of quizbowl with tons of injuries?
[16:01] <jsmyers> This is a rebuilding year for qb a bit imo
05[16:01] <nch> yeah
[16:01] <heterodyne> agree
05[16:02] <nch> next is #20 Toronto
[16:02] <jhawk> lol tell that to cambridge and penn
05[16:02] <nch> I should start moving faster, at this rate we'll be around for a while
[16:02] <JoeSu> Nats: Rein, Aayush, Chris (from D2 ICT)
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[16:02] <JoeSu> ICT: Rein, Aayush, Jay, Simone
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[16:03] <Hbunker> Rein is very good at science especially physics and stuff related to engineering. Aayush has underrated generalist knowledge. Jay is very good at history and geo.
05[16:03] <nch> I didn't realize Jay was still at Toronto
[16:03] <JoeSu> They lose history for Nats since Chris is a good D2 generalist with some deep history knowlegde here and there
05[16:03] <nch> I guess the dream team is still intact, then
05[16:03] <nch> why isn't he playing Nats
[16:03] <JoeSu> he is not eligible for nats
[16:03] <JoeSu> only ICT
05[16:03] <nch> huh
05[16:03] <nch> how did that happen
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[16:04] <JoeSu> Rein scales incredibly well at the physical sciences, Aayush and Jay are more generalists
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[16:04] <JoeSu> They are ranked about as high as I'd expect them to
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[16:04] <JoeSu> Interestingly, they finished with higher stats than McGill at both SCT and Penn Bowl, but we beat them head to head
05[16:05] <nch> interesting
[16:05] <Hbunker> Who is their best lit player Joe?
[16:05] <JoeSu> Aayush
05[16:05] <nch> when I saw them they looked clearly not as good as McGill
[16:05] <JoeSu> We cover less of the distribution but more deeply
05[16:05] <nch> I don't see a lot of upset potential for this team
[16:05] <JoeSu> me neither
05[16:06] <nch> let's go to #19
05[16:06] <nch> WUSTL
[16:06] <jhawk> this team is only going to nats right?
05[16:06] <nch> the opposite
05[16:06] <nch> they only qualified for ICT
[16:06] <jhawk> ohh right
05[16:06] <nch> Charles Hang wasn't at Regionals and they came close enough to qualifying to submit a packet
05[16:06] <nch> but it didn't happen
[16:07] <heterodyne> this team could be underranked?
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[16:07] <heterodyne> I don't see them being weaker than last year
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05[16:07] <nch> yeah for whatever reason Charles Hang is consistently underrated
[16:07] <jhawk> oh yes sorry i got confused. Anyway I think we all know what Charles Hang can do
05[16:07] <nch> I feel like I've heard that this is his last year
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[16:07] <jhawk> i guess we don't all know
05[16:07] <nch> but I have no idea if that's true
[16:07] <Hbunker> Is Charles Hang better at NAQT than ACF?
[16:07] <jhawk> charles hang can get buckets
[16:07] <SaulKornheiser> he told me it was at the last hsnct
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[16:07] <SaulKornheiser> *it was his last year
[16:07] <gamegeek2> Charles is equally good I think
[16:07] <heterodyne> they were 12th at nats, what were they at ict again?
[16:07] <jsmyers> yeah I recall their ppb at SCT being quite low
[16:07] <jsmyers> despite Charles being there
[16:08] <jsmyers> that's why I ranked them lower than I otherwise would have
05[16:08] <nch> the issue with PPB as a metric is that quizbowl is about getting tossups
[16:08] <gamegeek2> He's the third best active history player probably
05[16:08] <nch> which is correlated with getting bonuses but not exactly the same
05[16:08] <nch> what's the roster for this team at ICT
05[16:08] <nch> is Will Mason at WUSTL
[16:08] <heterodyne> no
05[16:08] <nch> that's a loss for them
[16:09] <heterodyne> he wasn't msot of last yr either
[16:09] <jhawk> keep in mind this is a team that finished 12th at nats last year with their 54 ppg player returning
[16:09] <heterodyne> and their second scorer
05[16:10] <nch> their CMST lineup was Charles Hang, Patrick Butenhoff, Lily Hamer, Cyrus Zhou
05[16:10] <nch> I know very little about the non-Charles players here
[16:10] <ryu> patrick B knew a lot of misc. when i was there
[16:10] <gamegeek2> Cyrus and lily are d2
[16:10] <Hbunker> Cyrus seemed decent at Regs.
[16:10] <jhawk> also they do add lily hamer who i don't know much about but seems to approximate the missing scoring they lost from last years team
[16:10] <ryu> my gut says he has picked up more misc.
[16:10] <heterodyne> patrick got 11 ppg at nats last yr
05[16:10] <nch> Lily Hamer has a delightful name
[16:10] <jsmyers> I played Lily a lot in HS; she's p deep in certain areas of lit
[16:11] <RyanfromDuke> From what I remember when they were in my room, Lily was pretty decent at getting lit at CMST
05[16:11] <nch> Cyrus is a scientist, he got some science at CMST
[16:11] <JLewis> Charles is graduating right?
05[16:11] <nch> that's what's being reported
05[16:12] <nch> what year is Patrick
[16:12] <srombro_> allegedly
[16:12] <ryu> should be a senior
[16:12] <gamegeek2> Patrick is a senior
[16:12] <heterodyne> patrick is a sr
05[16:12] <nch> cool
05[16:12] <nch> all right then
05[16:12] <nch> #18 Virginia
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05[16:12] <nch> the same Virginia team we all know and love, now with less Jack Mehr
05[16:12] <nch> and Nick Collins instead
[16:13] <jhawk> NIck collins gets lit buckets at my expense all day
[16:13] <wcheng> really good team that has improved a lot since last year
[16:13] <gamegeek2> That's an upgrade
[16:13] <jhawk> nick had the second most lit powers at cmst
[16:13] <calebk> Nick Collins is my boy, he's gotten super good
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[16:13] <jhawk> first was Jordan brownstein so yeah that is pretty damn good
05[16:13] <nch> I'm surprised by this team
05[16:13] <nch> it seemed like they'd stagnated
[16:13] <gamegeek2> Nicks first buzz percentage is ridiculously high at CMST
[16:14] <gamegeek2> Was
[16:14] <RyanfromDuke> They didn't play much together this year though
05[16:14] <nch> nickcollins
[16:14] <heterodyne> so they're lawrence/nick/eric/vasa?
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[16:14] <gamegeek2> Yes
05[16:14] <nch> that's been the lineup, I can't imagine it's changed
05[16:14] <nch> Vasa is a senior this year
[16:14] <gamegeek2> Vasa and nick scale very well, the other two not as much
05[16:14] <nch> but the bulk of the scoring will be back for one more go
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[16:15] <jhawk> well they have some up and coming people on their b team
[16:15] <heterodyne> eric doesn't seem to be super into qb anymore, not that there's shame in that
[16:15] <jhawk> but that is a topic for another day
05[16:15] <nch> Eric's interesting because most people who are very good in high school either basically quit in college
05[16:15] <nch> or continue to get really good in college
[16:16] <jhawk> he does seem to have lots of other projects this hasn't seemed to have effected his performance that i've seen
05[16:16] <nch> you don't see a lot of people who play at a high but not elite level
[16:16] <ryu> tfw
05[16:16] <nch> ha
[16:16] <gettysburg11> rt
[16:16] <gamegeek2> Richard and Wang were much better than Eric X
05[16:16] <nch> the addition of Nick makes this team interesting
[16:16] <gamegeek2> I would call Richard elite
[16:17] <SaulKornheiser> the eric/vasa/jack team at last year's acf nats was mostly buzzing soon before the FTP in tossups when i read for them, so more scaling would do this team good
[16:17] <ryu> thanks gamegeek2
05[16:17] <nch> maybe they can make some noise now
05[16:17] <nch> moving not too far
05[16:17] <nch> #17 Duke
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[16:18] <RyanfromDuke> So our roster for both nationals will be: myself, Gabe Guedes, Lucian Li, and Annabelle Yang
05[16:18] <nch> Annabelle has been a big addition
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[16:18] <gamegeek2> Is probably better than Virginia this seems correct
[16:18] <jhawk> Similar to UVA in that they return a very solid core. I expected this team to take a step back with the lose of john but they seem to have overall improved and Annabelle Yang is legit
[16:18] <gamegeek2> Ryan I take it you've studied a fair bit
[16:18] <RyanfromDuke> Yeah, Annabelle complements the other three of us really well
[16:18] <RyanfromDuke> Annabelle's a great myth and arts player
[16:19] <wcheng> gamegeek2: idk I think the mid-atlantic ranking should be something like JHU, Virginia, UMD ~= Duke
[16:19] <RyanfromDuke> I've definitely benefited this semester from going on a bit of a study binge the last few months
[16:19] <wcheng> I concur that annabelle is very good and scales very well
[16:19] <gamegeek2> Virginia has slipped
[16:19] <heterodyne> so I'd imagine there's a lot of strength in art on that team bc Gabe is also good at art
[16:19] <heterodyne> iiirc
[16:19] <RyanfromDuke> Gabe's a really good lit and arts player, and Lucian is strong at history (particularly world history)
05[16:19] <nch> the teams below the Mason-Dixon line are kind of muddled
[16:19] <RobertChu> Duke beat JHU in our only match this year for what it's worth
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[16:20] <jhawk> was that at eft though?
05[16:20] <nch> not a lot of transitivity in these rankings
[16:20] <RyanfromDuke> Yeah, we only played JHU at eft
[16:20] <jhawk> that is very different from ACF nats, but that said these teams are all pretty even and could all beat each other
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05[16:21] <nch> has Gabe been getting better
[16:21] <RyanfromDuke> Unfortunately we couldn't play CMST since I edited science, but Duke's core+John was able to beat OSU there fwiw
[16:21] <RobertChu> Yeah it's definitely a packet-by-packet thing between us 4 teams
[16:21] <RyanfromDuke> And yeah, Gabe's definitely put in a lot of effort the past few months at scaling better
[16:21] <RyanfromDuke> I'd agree with that Robert
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[16:22] <RyanfromDuke> Also worth saying that we're definitely not as much of a liability at ICT this year as we were last year, still probably better at mACF though
05[16:22] <nch> we'll see how it pays off at ICT, Duke's performance last year was definitely a disappointment
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[16:22] <RyanfromDuke> Agreed there haha
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05[16:23] <nch> moving on
05[16:23] <nch> #16 Stanford
05[16:23] <nch> like WUSTL, not playing ACF Nationals
05[16:23] <nch> what's Stanford's ICT lineup
05[16:23] <nch> Nikhil, Nathan, Kyle, someone else?
[16:24] <jhawk> are there any west coasters in this chat
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07[16:24] <jhawk> naveed you must represent the bay area
05[16:24] <nch> Will Alston's basically a West Coaster
05[16:24] <nch> but yeah holding this in the middle of the afternoon Pacific Time was a bad decision on the part of whoever scheduled this
[16:24] <heterodyne> what a dufus
[16:24] <jsmyers> @James
[16:24] <gettysburg11> How fiendish
[16:24] <SaulKornheiser> chicago a played cmst at berkeley, right, heterodyne?
[16:24] <heterodyne> yes
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[16:25] <heterodyne> but there was no Stanford team
05[16:25] <nch> we're talking about Stanford here
05[16:25] <nch> you really are Saul Kornheiser
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[16:25] <SaulKornheiser> that's what i get for not looking at the stats/field
[16:25] <gamegeek2> There was also no Berkeley A team or B team at CMST
[16:25] <DrMichaelWilbon> try better next time, knucklehead!
[16:25] <SaulKornheiser> no, tony kornheiser would have a legal pad with some key stats written in big letters
[16:25] <Hbunker> can you do the penguin dance, Saul?
[16:26] <jhawk> okay lets get back to actual discussion
[16:26] <heterodyne> if nikhil is playing for stanford I can confirm he is good
05[16:26] <nch> Stanford's SCT team was just Nikhil/Saul/Kyle
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05[16:26] <nch> yeah Nikhil is good
[16:26] <heterodyne> and nathan was very good at scattergories
05[16:26] <nch> he won the California Geography Bee in 2008
[16:26] <SaulKornheiser> er, i assume you mean "nathan" where you wrote me
[16:26] <DrMichaelWilbon> saul is transferring
05[16:26] <nch> all Jews are the same to me
[16:26] <SaulKornheiser> touche
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07[16:27] <wcheng> hi nch
[16:27] <jsmyers> speaking of which tbt Conrad Oberhaus beating me two years in a row in the IL geo bee
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[16:27] <JLewis> And Conrad is a 2200 in chess
05[16:27] <nch> Stanford theoretically has a lot of young talent in Ashwin, Ali, Young, and whoever else they have
05[16:28] <nch> but out of this team I know Nikhil and Kyle are gone after this year
[16:28] <jsmyers> They also have Keoni Rodriguez; he was on CA NASAT last year
[16:28] <jsmyers> not sure if he's playing
[16:28] <SaulKornheiser> isn't nathan a senior as well?
[16:28] <jsmyers> apparently he is; he played SCT
[16:28] <gettysburg11> I believe so
[16:29] <RyanfromDuke> Yeah, Nathan's a senior
05[16:29] <nch> yeah this would be Nathan's senior year
05[16:29] <nch> I don't know what he's doing after this
[16:29] <heterodyne> that team will presumably be very good at d2ict
05[16:29] <nch> but this team had massive variance in how they were ranked
05[16:29] <nch> presumably because the actual composition of Stanford A is so unclear
[16:29] <heterodyne> altho ali doesn't rly like college qb afaik
05[16:29] <nch> yeah, that's what I've heard
[16:29] <jhawk> probably their lack of play
[16:29] <jsmyers> yeah that impression is correct
05[16:29] <nch> but he played SCT
05[16:30] <nch> so then
05[16:30] <nch> #15 Oklahoma
[16:30] <heterodyne> very good
[16:30] <jsmyers> OK
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[16:30] <heterodyne> a bit underranked I think?
[16:30] <SamBaSam> They can't all be underranked!
[16:30] <SaulKornheiser> i'd have michigan lower, so i agree
05[16:30] <nch> it's hard to tell because they've had a full team so rarely
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[16:31] <calebk> yeah
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[16:31] <Hbunker> every team is under ranked except our rival. We lost to them because we had a bad day.
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05[16:31] <nch> they did have the 800-10 win in the SCT final
[16:31] <SaulKornheiser> is everyone back from that undermanned oklahoma team from last year's ict?
[16:31] <jhawk> :0
[16:31] <calebk> we've only played together at EFT and SCT which was D2
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[16:31] <heterodyne> ya
[16:31] <calebk> so who knows what will happen
[16:31] <heterodyne> but like beating mizzou without Maia
05[16:31] <nch> I assume the roster is Caleb/Maia/Finn/Thatcher
[16:31] <heterodyne> is p solid
[16:31] <calebk> yeah
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[16:32] <heterodyne> also iirc you played Chicago B+ pretty close at wao
[16:32] <DrMikeCheyne> oklahomies
[16:32] <gamegeek2> wao ii*
05[16:32] <nch> my impression of the Oklahomies is that Caleb knows humanities, Maia knows science/NAQT stuff
[16:32] <jhawk> didn't caleb and maia have like a billion powers at wao ii or something
05[16:32] <nch> I don't know about the others
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[16:32] <heterodyne> maia didn't play wao2
[16:32] <SamBaSam> Was Maia at ICT last year?
[16:32] <heterodyne> no
05[16:33] <nch> is this a better ICT team
[16:33] <calebk> no, we haven't played a nationals with our full A team since ICT 2016
[16:33] <SaulKornheiser> three of you were enough last year :(
05[16:33] <nch> but this year the full A team will be playing both nationals
[16:33] <SamBaSam> That's pretty impressive, they did well last year.
[16:33] <heterodyne> and were the best in that field, so presumably you're no slouches as a full team lol
[16:33] <calebk> maia is really, really good at geo so we'll be far better at ICT
[16:34] <DrMikeCheyne> oklahoma usually wins big games aside from any fiesta bowls
05[16:34] <nch> oof
[16:34] <calebk> rice 2k17 never forget
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05[16:34] <nch> remember when Oklahoma lost to Houston
05[16:34] <nch> anyway
05[16:34] <nch> this is probably the last chance for this iteration of Oklahoma, presumably
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[16:34] <jhawk> didn't they beat Columbia at nats when caleb was a freshman?
[16:34] <DrMikeCheyne> caleb's good at art, right
[16:34] <Hbunker> Landry Jones versus Alabama goat performance
[16:35] <calebk> yeah, Maia is going to UMD next year
[16:35] <heterodyne> caleb is good at p much all humanities things
[16:35] <calebk> I may or may not be leaving too
[16:35] <heterodyne> :'(
[16:36] <heterodyne> any destination?
[16:36] <DrMikeCheyne> Parts Unknown
[16:36] <calebk> it was a good run. I'm waitlisted at UMD and UT-Austin
[16:36] <calebk> so we'll see
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[16:36] <RyanfromDuke> Completely unbiased opinion, you should join me at UT
[16:36] <heterodyne> phil grad school?
[16:36] <jsmyers> yeah that would be a good teram
[16:36] <jsmyers> *team
05[16:37] <nch> Maryland would be a better team
05[16:37] <nch> but anyway
[16:37] <jsmyers> particularly when William Golden probably joins you after a year
05[16:37] <nch> #14 Michigan
[16:37] <SaulKornheiser> i'm gonna go to the glasses on this one
[16:37] <DrMikeCheyne> wait, isn't saul on this team?
[16:37] <DrMikeCheyne> that team must suck
[16:37] <SaulKornheiser> it's true
05[16:37] <nch> Nathan Weiser is on this team right
07[16:37] <wcheng> nch no I am
[16:37] <Hbunker> Noah Chen is really good at bio and science in general.
[16:37] <SaulKornheiser> i think we're ranked about right where ict is concerned cause we have kenji, but overranked where acf nats is concerned
05[16:37] <nch> oof
[16:37] <DrMikeCheyne> unless the distribution becomes 20/20 Last Jedi
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[16:38] <CPiGuy2728> noah's good at science, it's true
[16:38] <SaulKornheiser> noah will scale on bio/chem/math at nats
[16:38] <DrMikeCheyne> kenji is really good at nats tho
05[16:38] <nch> what's Michigan's lineup
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[16:38] <DrMikeCheyne> he is in fact really good at quizbowl
[16:38] <SaulKornheiser> kenji/noah/austin/saul
[16:38] <Hbunker> Foos has really solid history knowledge especially for American and Euro history IMO.
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[16:38] <SaulKornheiser> austin will scale on history at nats but also neg plenty
[16:38] <Hbunker> and Foos has very solid CE knowledge for ICT.
[16:38] <SaulKornheiser> and i won't scale
[16:38] <DrMikeCheyne> he won't power many nats questions
05[16:39] <nch> this team has a good shot at the top bracket of ICT
05[16:39] <nch> the 12-team top bracket, at least
[16:39] <Hbunker> I heard Kenji has been studying a ton of lit too.
[16:39] <SaulKornheiser> i expect kenji to drag us to one of these two "top brackets"
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05[16:39] <nch> huh
[16:39] <CPiGuy2728> do you mean the top-6 top bracket or the top-12 top bracket
[16:39] <DrMikeCheyne> kenji is good in almost all categories
[16:39] <SaulKornheiser> lit is one of our weaknesses, but kenji knows the clues
05[16:39] <nch> does Kenji know science
[16:39] <DrMikeCheyne> somewhat
[16:39] <SaulKornheiser> i don't think we'll make the top six at ICT
[16:39] <CPiGuy2728> no, but noah does
05[16:39] <nch> I feel like engineers normally don't
[16:39] <SaulKornheiser> he knows the clues
[16:39] <DrMikeCheyne> he knows the clues
[16:39] <SaulKornheiser> noah will get us science
[16:39] <Hbunker> I have seen Kenji get bio things before
[16:40] <DrMikeCheyne> they're pretty weak at lit
[16:40] <srombro_> yea he can get science near the end
05[16:40] <nch> Kenji and Saul are gone after this year, I assume
[16:40] <DrMikeCheyne> mainly because half the team is illiterate
[16:40] <SaulKornheiser> correct
[16:40] <CPiGuy2728> as is noah
[16:40] <srombro_> hahaha
05[16:40] <nch> as Saul continues his biannual migration
[16:40] <Hbunker> Yeah I think they lose 3/4 of their A team. Foos is staying around though.
[16:40] <DrMikeCheyne> saul returns to his beloved nyc
05[16:40] <nch> sorry biennial
[16:40] <SaulKornheiser> so i play on top-12 at ict and second bracket at acf nats
[16:40] <SaulKornheiser> *plan on
[16:40] <DrMikeCheyne> michigan always gets top talent though
[16:41] <CPiGuy2728> is acf nats playoff brackets of 12?
[16:41] <jsmyers> damn losing 2/3 of your A team in two straight years
[16:41] <jsmyers> rough
[16:41] <jsmyers> *3/4
05[16:41] <nch> I assume the ACF Nationals top bracket is 12
05[16:41] <nch> I guess I don't know for sure
[16:41] <Hbunker> I don't know which high school superstars are going to U-M but I'm sure there will be several.
[16:41] <CPiGuy2728> tuhin from troy is definitely considering it
05[16:41] <nch> from Michigan to the Michigan of the east
05[16:41] <nch> #13 McGill
01[16:42] * Retrieving #quizbowl modes...
[16:42] <SaulKornheiser> i'm off to a concert now, so it'll be up to others to shit-talk osu and columbia
[16:42] <DrMikeCheyne> i knew someone from mcgill
[16:42] <DrMikeCheyne> she was weird
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05[16:42] <nch> Derek is good
05[16:42] <nch> better than anyone else in Canada
[16:43] <JoeSu> our roster for ICT/Nats is Derek/Daniel/Joe/Akhil/Jack
05[16:43] <nch> McGill has gotten into a top bracket before, it could absolutely happen again
05[16:43] <nch> wow, going with the five-man lineup
[16:43] <JoeSu> McGill has upset potential both ways
05[16:43] <nch> how are the substitutions going to work
[16:43] <SamBaSam> They did last year, didn't they?
[16:43] <JoeSu> Jack's gonna sit off most of the time, I think, but we haven't decided
05[16:43] <nch> yeah I think it was last year
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[16:43] <DrMikeCheyne> i think more teams should call time outs and substitute
05[16:43] <nch> who's going to be playing every game
[16:44] <JoeSu> if we don't make the top bracket I think we're gonna just lock derek in a room and go with the other four of us
05[16:44] <nch> guaranteed
05[16:44] <nch> ha
[16:44] <JoeSu> Derek, of course
[16:44] <JoeSu> and Daniel, he's gotten a lot better at painting and philosophy
[16:44] <ellie> the first time i met a new classmate from Canada I decided to be facetious and say "haha do you know my friend Daniel from Canada"
[16:44] <JoeSu> I dodn
[16:44] <ellie> and he humoured me and was like "daniel who" "lovsted" and it turned out they went to elementary school together
[16:44] <JoeSu> didn't
[16:44] <ellie> #fun #fact
[16:44] <JoeSu> realize this until i saw buzzpoint stuff at regionals
05[16:44] <nch> wow
05[16:44] <nch> McGill didn't play CMST
[16:45] <JoeSu> McGill's played three tournaments with full A team since ICT last year
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05[16:45] <nch> who's getting the history on this team
[16:45] <DrMikeCheyne> no one
05[16:45] <nch> yeah they're holding out for Sam Rombro
05[16:45] <nch> bleak
[16:45] <srombro_> rip
[16:45] <JoeSu> Akhil and I have pockets of knowledge which really helped in the prelims at ICT last year but neither of us could compete against the top bracket people
[16:46] <srombro_> i don't think it's gonna happen lol
[16:46] <JoeSu> We have absolutely no European history knowledge between like the fall of rome and the 1900s
[16:46] <gamegeek2> hey sam on the plus side
05[16:46] <nch> is anyone graduating
[16:46] <gamegeek2> you got into a grad program
[16:46] <gamegeek2> for something you didnt' study in undergrad
05[16:46] <nch> on the plus side, Sam doesn't have to move to Canada
[16:46] <srombro_> hahaha true
[16:46] <jhawk> BIG BALLER MOVES
[16:46] <JoeSu> Jack, our 5th scorer who got 1 ppg at SCT is leaving but the rest of us are staying
05[16:47] <nch> lot of Jacks
[16:47] <JoeSu> on paper we're better at ACF stuff because NAQT skews american and none of know any geography
05[16:47] <nch> those are things that probably hurt at ICT
[16:47] <JoeSu> but last year we felt like upsetting teams at NAQT, so you never know
05[16:47] <nch> next
05[16:47] <nch> #12 Missouri
[16:47] <gamegeek2> itamar is good
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[16:48] <gamegeek2> alex harmata is good at chemistry
05[16:48] <nch> I was going to ask whether anyone other than Itamar is worth talking about on this team
[16:48] <calebk> alex is very good
[16:48] <Hbunker> what year is Itamar?
05[16:49] <nch> he's a senior
05[16:49] <nch> what's this team's roster
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[16:49] <gamegeek2> itamar, alex, joe stitz, dinis trindade
05[16:50] <nch> I was going to ask if Joe is playing D2 but there's only one Missouri team going
[16:50] <gamegeek2> joe is a high school generalist who has severely atrophied
05[16:50] <nch> so I guess that answers that
[16:50] <gamegeek2> dinis is a new player who's good at history
[16:50] <gamegeek2> this team is probably better at ACF since Alex can't make ICT and Itamar's best categories are painting, lit, and myth
05[16:51] <nch> is the ICT roster just three players
05[16:51] <nch> or are they adding someone else
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[16:52] <gamegeek2> no
[16:52] <gamegeek2> don't think so
05[16:52] <nch> no to which
[16:52] <gamegeek2> no to adding someone else
05[16:52] <nch> well
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05[16:53] <nch> let's go to #11 Berkeley B
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05[16:53] <nch> this team is full of high school superstars
[16:53] <gamegeek2> i suspect this team is overrated
[16:53] <gamegeek2> ability to scale is not well tesetd
[16:53] <gamegeek2> actually I take that back
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[16:54] <WalterZhao> Will Berkeley B have Michael Coates?
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05[16:54] <nch> presumably the Berkeley B that plays ICT will be a different team from the Berkeley B that plays ACF Nationals
05[16:54] <nch> what are the rosters for each of those teams
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[16:54] <gamegeek2> coates is on A at ICT and B at nats
[16:54] <gamegeek2> eric chen is the converse
[16:54] <WalterZhao> the freshmen (malouf, keyal, sivakumar) are playing DII at ICT afaik.
05[16:54] <nch> jmalouf
[16:54] <gamegeek2> between him and Rohin there's a solid core at both nationals
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05[16:55] <nch> wow we have an op in this room now
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[16:55] <jmalouf> yeah b is rohin/rahul/pranav/michael for nats
05[16:55] <nch> but as far as non-freshmen go there's Eric, John, Rohin, various others
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05[16:56] <nch> what's the ICT B team
[16:56] <jmalouf> rohin/eric/john/jonchee
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[16:57] <mutesa1> what happened to sunny chen
05[16:57] <nch> that B team isn't too different from the B team that made top bracket at Columbia last year
[16:57] <jmalouf> nobody knows
05[16:57] <nch> although it loses Sameer's je ne sais quoi
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[16:59] <ysaye> underestimating rahul keyal would be a monumental mistake
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[16:59] <heterodyne> rahul is good af
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05[16:59] <nch> so what categories are people getting on these teams
05[16:59] <nch> both ICT and ACF
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[17:00] <ysaye> rahul is a monster at both lit and FA
05[17:01] <nch> ok
05[17:01] <nch> #10 Chicago B
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05[17:01] <nch> this is another team the composition of which will be very different at ICT and ACF Nationals
[17:01] <heterodyne> yes
[17:02] <heterodyne> at ict the team will be, iirc, James/Tamara/Athena/Morgan
[17:02] <heterodyne> (the SCT team)
05[17:02] <nch> ACF Nationals is Tamara/James/Matthew/Luke?
[17:02] <heterodyne> yes
05[17:02] <nch> that must be a fun team
[17:02] <heterodyne> imo this is a slightly better version of Chicago B from last year
05[17:02] <nch> it feels similar to a lot of Chicago B teams
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[17:03] <Hbunker> how well does Morgan scale?
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[17:03] <heterodyne> so they are certainly not top 10 at ict
[17:03] <heterodyne> as morgan and athena are both extremely rusty (although both knowing quite a few things) and there's 0 history coverage
05[17:03] <nch> yeah that ICT team just feels like a bunch of people who know stuff in general
05[17:04] <nch> but without real category coverage
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05[17:04] <nch> ACF Nationals team feels like a potential top bracket team to me
05[17:05] <nch> although it depends on how Luke scales
[17:05] <heterodyne> idrk how luke scales
[17:05] <Hbunker> James has gotten much more consistent on biology and chemistry from when I was a frosh I feel.
[17:05] <heterodyne> matthew does have some problems with the upper level lit canon but if the answerline is core, he will do well imo
[17:06] <heterodyne> tamara continues to accumulate knowledge in much the same way she always has
05[17:06] <nch> without Luke getting things the history coverage on that team is weak
[17:06] <Hbunker> Who is the best at NAQT things on the ICT version?
[17:07] <JLewis> Matthew can get history things though (Top ten  in the Bowl last year playing solo)
[17:07] <heterodyne> matthew knows some history, I think he was the 4th history scorer at his CMST site?
05[17:07] <nch> huh
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05[17:07] <nch> good for him
05[17:07] <nch> continuing
05[17:07] <nch> #9 Minnesota
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05[17:07] <nch> Jason Asher et al.
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[17:08] <gamegeek2> this seems very much like a "your mileage may vary" team
[17:08] <gamegeek2> as it has been
05[17:08] <nch> I feel like Minnesota has been in this spot for a long time
[17:08] <SamBaSam> I think the ICT team is the same as last year.
05[17:08] <nch> in the bottom part of the top ten
[17:08] <SamBaSam> We're perfectly capable of losing to a bunch of the teams that have already been mentioned.
[17:08] <SamBaSam> And have!
05[17:09] <nch> the last successful buzz of my Maryland career was against Minnesota
05[17:09] <nch> it was definitely not the last game of my Maryland career
05[17:09] <nch> Shan and Sam scale in interesting ways
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05[17:09] <nch> unless things have changed, Jason doesn't really scale much
[17:09] <RekindlingPhoenix> sham
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14[17:10] RekindlingPhoenix is Mibbit@cloak-66E7264.sub-174-205-8.myvzw.com * http://www.mibbit.com
14[17:10] RekindlingPhoenix on #quizbowl
14[17:10] RekindlingPhoenix using moo.slashnet.org To err is human, to moo bovine.
14[17:10] RekindlingPhoenix has been idle 20secs, signed on Tue Apr 10 16:47:59 2018
14[17:10] RekindlingPhoenix End of /WHOIS list.
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[17:10] <SamBaSam> For Nationals it will be John Waldron instead of Peter.
[17:11] <SamBaSam> I think.
05[17:11] <nch> is he the freshman with the misspelled hsqb username
[17:11] <SamBaSam> Maybe? He's a freshman.
05[17:12] <nch> I assume he's a scientist
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[17:12] <SamBaSam> Yes.
05[17:12] <nch> Jason's graduating, presumably
05[17:12] <nch> is anyone else leaving after this yae
05[17:12] <nch> year
[17:12] <SamBaSam> I'm not sure how he scales, but he knows science.
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[17:12] <SamBaSam> Jason is leaving, and...I think that's it.
[17:12] <SamBaSam> Shan isn't graduating but he may be away next year?
05[17:13] <nch> doing nature stuff or whatever
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[17:13] <SamBaSam> Tree-hunting, I believe.
05[17:14] <nch> keeping it in the Big Ten
05[17:14] <nch> next is #8 Northwestern
05[17:14] <nch> they won ACF Regionals with a team of Adam, Greg, and two people who didn't really do anything
[17:15] <heterodyne> i htink dylan's loss will show up more at nats
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05[17:15] <nch> they finished third at Penn Bowl doing the same thing
05[17:16] <nch> but with two different other people
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05[17:16] <nch> what is their lineup going to be at ACF Nationals and ICT
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05[17:17] <nch> but yeah, I agree that this team is going to have a harder time getting high-level stuff
[17:17] <heterodyne> I don't think the ACF/Penn bowl difference is that indicative since they could have gotten third at regionals
[17:17] <heterodyne> as it was never resolved
05[17:17] <nch> yeah
05[17:17] <nch> Adam will still get his stuff
05[17:17] <nch> but Greg can't cover the rest
[17:17] <Hbunker> Just wanted to say that Adam's generalist knowledge is incredibly strong but to what extent does it scale outside the sciences?
05[17:17] <nch> the way Greg and Dylan together could
[17:19] <t-bar> I mean, Adam did a pretty good job of covering things at a high level in undergrad
[17:19] <t-bar> it's possible he stopped working on that when he went to grad school
[17:19] <heterodyne> not sure how much he has let that atrophy
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05[17:20] <nch> I think this team is still good enough to make a top bracket
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05[17:20] <nch> both top brackets
05[17:20] <nch> but it wouldn't surprise me if they didn't
[17:20] <rhododendron> what team are we on?
05[17:20] <nch> especially given their performance at ACF Nationals last year
05[17:20] <nch> Northwestern
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05[17:21] <nch> next is #6 (tied) Ohio State
[17:21] <gamegeek2> another "your mileage may vary" team
[17:21] <gamegeek2> i smell a good run coming though
[17:21] <SamBaSam> Who's on it?
[17:21] <gettysburg11> Ris Chray
[17:22] <gamegeek2> Christ Ray
[17:22] <CPiGuy2728> Chris Wray
[17:22] <heterodyne> Chris/Clark/Enoch/not sure on the fourth
[17:22] <gamegeek2> Clark Schmidt
05[17:22] <nch> one thing that stands out about this team
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[17:22] <CPiGuy2728> its probably aakash or laurel
05[17:22] <nch> is Chris Ray's performance at CMST
[17:22] <gamegeek2> only team that has beaten jordan this year
[17:22] <heterodyne> having played this team,it seems to depend on Clark having a good game to beat top teams
05[17:22] <nch> in 12 games Chris had 6 powers
[17:22] <heterodyne> and clark knows a lot of shit but is still spotty
05[17:23] <nch> in 12 games Ophir had 10powers
05[17:23] <nch> in 12 games Jordan had 46 powers
[17:23] <heterodyne> auroni had 4 across 11
[17:23] <gamegeek2> ophir had 9, there was an error
[17:23] <heterodyne> CMST had odd power counts across the board
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05[17:23] <nch> I don't know what's going on there but that's real weird
[17:24] <heterodyne> Conor, you had a better power rate than Auroni or Chris
[17:24] <heterodyne> and no offence but I'm fairly sure they remain better players
05[17:24] <nch> but especially at ICT Chris Ray can take questions off anyone
[17:24] <Hbunker> Conor's got that deep math knowledge though!
[17:24] <CPiGuy> that's very true
[17:24] <heterodyne> so I'm not sure how much weight we should put on those
[17:24] <CPiGuy> i didn't even power the math!
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[17:24] <Hbunker> yeah Ik that's the joke
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05[17:25] <nch> does anyone know who the other two players on this team are
[17:25] <heterodyne> I think OSU has potential to make a deep run at ICT for sure
07[17:25] <CPiGuy> naveed, probably enoch and either aakash or laurel
[17:25] <heterodyne> enoch knows some science stuff
[17:25] <heterodyne> no idea if he scales
[17:25] <CPiGuy> i agree, alston
[17:26] <gamegeek2> buzzing early on science is hard to do at ICT anyway
[17:26] <Hbunker> Does Saayid Moyen (sp?) not play anymore?
[17:26] <gamegeek2> though eric and adam seem to do it
[17:26] <gamegeek2> Sayeef*
[17:26] <srombro> enoch seemed like he knew some things at cmst
[17:26] <gamegeek2> I like how Sayeef moyen's name means "sword"
[17:26] <Hbunker> thank you
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05[17:26] <nch> Enoch buzzes exclusively on science
05[17:27] <nch> did you just mistake Sayeef for Adam
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05[17:27] <nch> that's racist
05[17:27] <nch> this team is probably a year away
05[17:27] <nch> assuming that Clark goes to Ohio State he'll be teammates with Chris for a long time
05[17:28] <nch> I'd be surprised if they didn't make one final during that span
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[17:28] <Hbunker> is Clark going to OSU? Like does anyone have any knowledge on this?
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05[17:28] <nch> last I heard that was the direction things were headed
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05[17:29] <nch> continuing
05[17:29] <nch> #6 (tied) Cambridge
[17:29] <heterodyne> what will the lineup look like
[17:29] <heterodyne> @ellie
[17:29] <ellie> our team: Jason Golfinos, Joseph Krol, Yanbo Yin, me (Ellie Warner)
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[17:29] <elynch> I'm torn about what to predict
[17:29] <ellie> jason is a force of nature and we are gonna do our best to back him up
[17:30] <OliverClarke> yeah, Jason is really good
[17:30] <heterodyne> from what I could gather at OO, Jason is as good as we all remember and Joseph/Ellie in particular know a lot of shit
[17:30] <heterodyne> idk about Yanbo
[17:30] <heterodyne> does he do science?
[17:30] <OliverClarke> yes
[17:30] <ellie> Yanbo is our scientist
[17:30] <elynch> I feel like Cambridge's placing depends on where Jason stacks up compared to the rest of the top individual scorers
[17:30] <Christopher> he does bioy things
[17:30] <ellie> since we have lost Ewan
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[17:30] <heterodyne> ah he's the one that Ewan drunkenly claimed knew more science than him
[17:30] <heterodyne> I do not know if this is the case
[17:30] <OliverClarke> and Yanbo knows various other bits and pieces of classical music etc
[17:30] <Christopher> he knows less quizbowl science
[17:31] <Christopher> not sure about actual science
[17:31] <ellie> Yanbo once buzzed after only the words 'these organs' and got it right
[17:31] <elynch> Yanbo's a good science player who is improving all the time, but not having Ewan is a big loss across the board
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[17:32] <ellie> Joseph "Steamkroller" Krol studies maths and also likes arts, euro lit
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[17:32] <elynch> Krol and Ellie both can make good buzzes and back up Jason in certain areas, but I suspect Jason's shadow effect will be a bit more pronounced at nats than at regular
[17:32] <ellie> I study linguistics and like arts, SS, non-euro lit
[17:32] <elynch> and Jason's stats at CMST show he's not dipped much if at all at the upper level
05[17:32] <nch> is Jason only around for a year
[17:33] <ellie> ye :'(
[17:33] <ellie> i'm graduating also
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[17:33] <elynch> with Ewan, they make top bracket and spoil someone's day for sure - without, they're going to need a big game to get to 11 tossups against the top five
[17:34] <ellie> we'll give our best shot
[17:34] <ellie> is all we can do
05[17:34] <nch> the voters seem to think this team is better than any previous British team
[17:35] <ellie> joey +spence+george+daoud last year better than us probs
[17:35] <Christopher> It's certainly more dominant on the UK circuit than Oxford's previous iterations
[17:35] <elynch> On their regs lineup? yeah, for sure. Not sure if this lineup is better than Oxford last year though
[17:35] <gamegeek2> i disagree
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[17:36] <ellie> i'll get george to teach me all the medicine and we'll be fine
[17:36] <gamegeek2> this cambridge team seems like a massive improvement over last year's oxford
[17:36] <gamegeek2> and I don't think it's close
[17:36] <gamegeek2> even without Ewan
[17:36] <elynch> based on what?
[17:36] <gamegeek2> they have a top generalist on their team
[17:37] <gamegeek2> jason golfinos is a top 10 player
[17:37] <gamegeek2> he's at least as good as Rafael K if not better
[17:37] <elynch> it's very different to previous UK teams, at least - nats offerings from here tend to go down the specialist route because there's not much cause to learn the upper canon here
[17:37] <gamegeek2> 17 ppb on CMST as a two man team is nothing to sneeze at
05[17:38] <nch> well, we have a few more to go
05[17:38] <nch> #5 Columbia
05[17:38] <nch> what is there to this team other than Rafael
[17:38] <heterodyne> uhhh benny z
[17:38] <heterodyne> who are the third and fourth?
[17:38] <ysaye> "gerhardt hinkle"
[17:38] <heterodyne> because if they've played w their full team, this team seems maybe overranked to me?
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05[17:39] <nch> well Benny Z stagnated
[17:39] <gamegeek2> this is their full team
[17:39] <gamegeek2> columbia is definitely worse than cambridge
[17:39] <SamBaSam> Ben Zhang is still on Columbia?
05[17:39] <nch> yeah this is his senior year
[17:39] <gamegeek2> yes
[17:40] <SamBaSam> Oh I guess he was a year behind Max.
05[17:40] <nch> so we have Rafael, Ben, Gerhardt Hinkle, and Daniel Shao
05[17:40] <nch> is that right
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[17:41] <heterodyne> they did well at regionals
[17:41] <heterodyne> iirc
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05[17:41] <nch> yeah their only loss was to Yale B (???)
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[17:42] <gamegeek2> i mean that's the thing with columbia
[17:42] <gamegeek2> they can much more easily take a random loss to Yale B
05[17:42] <nch> but Columbia's performance at Nationals last year was very flukey
[17:42] <gamegeek2> than a more steady team like Cambridge
05[17:42] <nch> and I'd be surprised if they repeated
[17:42] <gamegeek2> Rafael used to basically never neg, and now that he's a generalist that's not the case
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05[17:43] <nch> how long is Rafael in school
[17:43] <gamegeek2> last year's performance relied heavily on the fact that Wilton and Kailee scaled very well
[17:43] <gamegeek2> wilton at visual arts and random asian shit, Kailee at things she learned being an erudite person / classics major
05[17:44] <nch> Ben leaves this year
05[17:44] <nch> Rafael has been around for a long time but I don't know when he's gone
05[17:44] <nch> things could really go south for Columbia
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05[17:46] <nch> ok no more discussion here
05[17:46] <nch> well then
05[17:46] <nch> #4 Chicago
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[17:46] <gamegeek2> much more liable than the top 3 to take a bad loss
[17:46] <gamegeek2> but extremely competitive on tossups
[17:47] <ysaye> exhibit A-C - our losses to our C team
[17:47] <gamegeek2> and tossups are what matter
[17:47] <heterodyne> yeah we take bad losses all the time
[17:47] <heterodyne> lmao
[17:47] <jhawk> what is Chicago's science situation?
[17:47] <ysaye> l m  a     o
[17:47] <gamegeek2> kai knows clues
[17:47] <gamegeek2> he doesn't know science
[17:47] <gamegeek2> sorry kai
[17:47] <ryu> same
[17:47] <heterodyne> noted one-time physics major 🅱️ai smith
[17:48] <gamegeek2> i too was once a physics major
05[17:48] <nch> Chicago is allegedly characterized as "a very emotional team"
[17:48] <SamBaSam> I hope Chicago's video is better than last year's.
[17:48] <ysaye> listening to recordings of CMST from stanford will give you a good idea of how much science i know
[17:48] <ysaye> ah rip no video this year
[17:48] <SamBaSam> So it is better, then.
[17:48] <ryu> good
05[17:48] <nch> #4 seems kind of high to me
[17:48] <ysaye> o o o o f
05[17:48] <nch> but this is kind of a weak year
[17:48] <jhawk> i got the one year notification on facebook a few days ago :(
[17:49] <jhawk> for the hype video.
05[17:49] <nch> Chicago is very good at lit
[17:49] <gamegeek2> chicago is the best lit team rn
[17:49] <gamegeek2> entirely because of john
05[17:49] <nch> and pretty good at history
[17:49] <jhawk> yeah that is true
05[17:49] <nch> but uh
[17:49] <heterodyne> I think we probably have some of the highest variance in the top bracket for sure
05[17:49] <nch> science
[17:49] <gamegeek2> though kai and alston can get buzzes
05[17:50] <nch> there's no replacement for Max here
05[17:50] <nch> maybe someday
[17:50] <SamBaSam> What's the lineup?
[17:50] <ysaye> note - alston was 12th in the country at CMST on lit according to PATH
[17:50] <gamegeek2> the myth is lagging behind last year too though alston's got some good buzzes on those regs recordings
05[17:50] <nch> John/Jason/Alston/Kai
[17:50] <heterodyne> myth is much worse than last year
05[17:50] <nch> for both nationals, I think
[17:50] <heterodyne> I can grab some random stuff
[17:50] <jhawk> good thing myth is less than in past years
[17:50] <ysaye> oh lmao listening to the regs recordings will give you an even better idea of how much science i know
[17:50] <jhawk> good for you
[17:51] <heterodyne> but don't have anywhere near the coverage max did
[17:51] <gamegeek2> i mean kai is high variance
[17:51] <gamegeek2> he will get really good science buzzes
[17:51] <gamegeek2> he just won't get them consistently
[17:51] <heterodyne> and then just 0 bonuses, yeah
[17:51] <Hbunker> Kai does seem pretty solid at math fwiw.
[17:51] <jhawk> also i will point out the date of acf nats is almost perfect for kai
[17:51] <ysaye> "what are lewis acids? 😂"
[17:52] <gamegeek2> it's also related to why i won't be at acf nationals
[17:52] <jhawk> :0
[17:52] <ysaye> lmaoooooooo
05[17:52] <nch> Will, you know 4/20 isn't, like, actually a holiday
05[17:52] <nch> right
[17:52] <srombro> lmao
[17:52] <gamegeek2> you can sure as hell take it off though
07[17:52] <ysaye> clearly you aren't a dedicated enough stoner naveed
[17:52] <heterodyne> yeah I mean I don't know anything, Kai is real spotty, and Jason has lost some stuff, but at least I think John will do quite well at Nats.
05[17:52] <nch> what are you going to do, go to the College Park Car Wash
05[17:52] <nch> yeah, this is a top bracket team
[17:52] <gamegeek2> i'm gonna be in LA
[17:53] <gamegeek2> after all am I not basically a west coaster
05[17:53] <nch> but I have to squint *really* hard to see a finals appearance
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05[17:53] <nch> I think Ohio State is more likely than Chicago to make a final
[17:53] <SamBaSam> What were people's reasoning for ranking Chicago so high? Just because most people here seem to disagree.
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[17:54] <jhawk> I would tend to agree with that
[17:54] <ysaye> @sam our stats lmao
[17:54] <heterodyne> an interesting assessment
[17:54] <gamegeek2> i ranked cambridge above chicago
[17:54] <gamegeek2> but i have an irrationally high appraisal of jason g
[17:54] <ryu> all the sad people with 0 all time wins against john
[17:54] <SamBaSam> Ha.
05[17:54] <nch> even I've beaten John
[17:54] <jhawk> :0
05[17:55] <nch> anyway
05[17:55] <nch> now we come to the section where we're cooking with gas
05[17:55] <nch> after, uh, nearly 2½ hours
05[17:55] <nch> #3 Penn
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05[17:56] <nch> Aidan is unavailable for ACF Nationals
05[17:56] <nch> because he has class all weekend
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[17:56] <gamegeek2> i don't think that puts penn 100% out of contention but it's close
05[17:56] <nch> Penn's numbers have been very good
[17:56] <jhawk> that could be problematic for them. who is filling the gap?
[17:56] <gamegeek2> unclear
05[17:56] <nch> I don't know who's replacing Aidan
[17:56] <gamegeek2> they might bring Nitin up to the A team
[17:56] <gamegeek2> as Nitin adds a lot on history
[17:57] <jhawk> yeah nitin is pretty good
[17:57] <gamegeek2> penn is making a serious push
[17:58] <gamegeek2> eric is one of the two best active players
05[17:58] <nch> I don't think Penn is on the level of Berkeley or Yale
[17:58] <gamegeek2> strong disagree
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05[17:58] <nch> but we basically know what this Penn team is either way
[17:58] <gamegeek2> i think people will be surprised at the team's progress
[17:58] <gamegeek2> come nationals
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05[17:59] <nch> I will say that I've seen Penn but not Yale or Berkeley
05[17:59] <nch> at least this year
[18:00] <gamegeek2> not a lot to say
[18:00] <heterodyne> can't underestimate how nice it is to be the massive favorite on 4 of the tossups
05[18:00] <nch> #2 Berkeley
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[18:00] <gamegeek2> @b
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[18:01] <gamegeek2> do we have bruce, aseem, justin, or michael/eric
05[18:01] <nch> I figured that if Berkeley were going to get good they would have already gotten good by last year
[18:01] <b> hey
05[18:01] <nch> but they've taken a big step forward
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[18:01] <gamegeek2> bruce is the best active history player
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05[18:01] <nch> yeah
[18:01] <gamegeek2> with myers a close second
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05[18:02] <nch> science is a question mark on this team
[18:02] <gamegeek2> not really
[18:02] <gamegeek2> aseem is very good at science
[18:02] <srombro> yea aseem is good at science
[18:02] <gamegeek2> he's not consistent but he's very good, much better than Kai certainly
05[18:02] <nch> well the standard isn't Kai
[18:02] <gamegeek2> also this is a team of CS and math majors aside from coates/eric
[18:02] <b> eric is cs
[18:02] <gamegeek2> oh he's cs / ling ok
[18:03] <gamegeek2> and justin I think is applied math or stats?
[18:03] <b> geography double
05[18:03] <nch> yeah but everyone on Maryland the last two years was CS, math, or physics
05[18:03] <nch> and those teams sucked ass at science
[18:03] <b> he's very good at earth sciences
[18:03] <gamegeek2> regardless there's a boatload of incidental other science knowledge
[18:03] <gamegeek2> and aseem is quite competent at the big three sciences
[18:03] <gamegeek2> scrutinizing ophirstats will tell you this
[18:04] <gamegeek2> this team has basically no weaknesses
[18:04] <gamegeek2> insofar that they have weaknesses, they are relative
05[18:04] <nch> yeah I mean
05[18:04] <nch> this is a very balanced team
[18:04] <gamegeek2> they're very good at every category and don't neg too much
[18:05] <gamegeek2> probably not as good at lit as the top teams of the past were, though
[18:05] <gamegeek2> like I think Penn and Chicago are both better than Berkeley at lit
[18:05] <ysaye> i don't think so
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[18:06] <ysaye> aseem and justin are incredibly good at lit
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05[18:06] <nch> Justin got four literature against Jordan two years ago at nats
[18:06] <gamegeek2> incredibly is strong
[18:06] <gamegeek2> justin is good at things he's read
[18:06] <gamegeek2> aseem has a lot of packet knowledge
[18:06] <ysaye> they are definitely better than Penn imho and competitive with us
[18:06] <gamegeek2> penn has three lit players
05[18:06] <nch> Aseem graduates after this year
[18:06] <srombro>  prisoner of zenda reax only
[18:07] <ysaye> berkeley ascribes to the "quality over quantity" model of lit players
05[18:07] <nch> Berkeley will be a top bracket team for the foreseeable future
05[18:07] <nch> but presumably they'll take a step back next year
05[18:07] <nch> but who knows
[18:07] <ysaye> idk - i just know that justin and aseem have incredibly deep and real pockets of lit knowledge
05[18:07] <nch> #1 Yale
05[18:07] <nch> here's the last one
[18:07] <ysaye> and overall are incredibly solid
[18:08] <heterodyne> yale good
05[18:08] <nch> Yale has played like two tournaments all year
[18:08] <heterodyne> if CMST wasn't a fluke for Isaac, they will win
[18:08] <ysaye> 1 with the full team I think
[18:08] <heterodyne> if it was, others have a chance
[18:08] <ysaye> yeah - IKD lit CMST the fuck up
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[18:09] <gamegeek2> "cmst was a weird set" seems to be the consensus
[18:09] <gamegeek2> yale is almost as good as penn at science, if not as good
[18:09] <heterodyne> yeah but it's hard to tell which results are because of that weirdness
05[18:09] <nch> Yale has two really good scientists
[18:10] <ysaye> scientist or science player?
05[18:10] <nch> I mean I assume Stephen is good at science
05[18:10] <nch> he's definitely good at getting science questions
[18:10] <ysaye> of course
[18:11] <gamegeek2> jacob reed is also not bad at getting science tossups
05[18:11] <nch> yeah
[18:11] <ysaye> jacob and adam both have a ton of real science knowledge
[18:11] <ysaye> idk if one would call them science players tho
[18:11] <ysaye> hence my question
05[18:11] <nch> the best chance a team has of beating Yale is probably attacking the history
[18:12] <ysaye> literature 🧐
[18:12] <gamegeek2> attacking history and literature is definitely the way to go
[18:12] <gamegeek2> myth as well to a lesser extent
[18:12] <gamegeek2> and religion
[18:12] <heterodyne> yeah it seems that they're better at history than lit
[18:12] <heterodyne> they're gonna be cleaning most teams clocks on FA and science sooo
[18:13] <ysaye> they're definitely the best arts team
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05[18:13] <nch> the gap between Yale and most of the teams we're talking about is vey large
[18:14] <gamegeek2> that's just not true
[18:14] <gamegeek2> it would not be that hard for Penn to 4/0 them on history
05[18:15] <nch> Penn is not most of the teams
[18:15] <gamegeek2> assuming Aidan has done the prep he said he would
[18:15] <gamegeek2> yale isn't gonna be taking dumb losses
[18:15] <ysaye> is aidan prepping for nats?
[18:15] <gamegeek2> that's their biggest strength
[18:15] <gamegeek2> neither is berkeley
[18:15] <gamegeek2> penn could take a dumb loss
[18:15] <ysaye> that wasn't the impression that I was under but I could be mistaken
05[18:15] <nch> Aidan's not playing nats, right
05[18:16] <nch> it'd be weird if he were prepping for it
[18:16] <ysaye> i meant for quizbowl in general
[18:16] <gamegeek2> we'll see
05[18:16] <nch> Yale could lose to Penn or Berkeley
05[18:16] <nch> it's hard to see them dropping a game to anyone else
[18:16] <gamegeek2> chicago
[18:16] <gamegeek2> cambridge maybe
[18:17] <gamegeek2> and OSU can beat anyone
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05[18:17] <nch> okay that's all the teams
[18:17] <ysaye> i feel like any of the top 7 have a nontrivial chance of beating any of the other teams in the top 7
05[18:17] <nch> opening up the floor to general thoughts
[18:18] <gamegeek2> columbia is overrated
[18:18] <heterodyne> i have a general feeling that these top brackets are gonna be messy
[18:18] <gamegeek2> ^
[18:18] <ysaye> how do people feel about superplayoffs at ICT?
05[18:18] <nch> messy in what sense
[18:18] <heterodyne> and there's a nontrivial chance that a team we don't expect will get the chance to lose to Yale in a final
[18:19] <heterodyne> like lots of the probable top bracket teams have an ability to just drop games
[18:19] <heterodyne> I mean we talk about Yale as the most steady but Jacob+Stephen still lost to MIT B in the fall
[18:19] <gamegeek2> i'd say all of them do except berkeley and yale
[18:20] <ysaye> for instance, as good as yale and berkeley are, they have not faced any real competition any tournaments
[18:20] <heterodyne> and idk about berkeley but you're probably right
[18:20] <gamegeek2> that's also true
[18:20] <ysaye> so you never know what could happen
[18:20] <gamegeek2> yale and berkeley aren't very battle tested
[18:20] <heterodyne> they seem steady tho
[18:20] <gamegeek2> yeah on paper they have lower neg rates
[18:20] <heterodyne> but like Chicago, OSU, Penn, Cambridge all seem like they could lose random games
[18:20] <gamegeek2> and it's not like this berkeley team lacks experience
[18:20] <gamegeek2> plus berkeley has faced real competition at opens
[18:20] <heterodyne> that happens a few times and someone upsets yale
05[18:20] <nch> who's going to be good next year
[18:20] <ysaye> then again, you can afford to sit when the other team doesn;t have a chance of getting the tossup
[18:20] <heterodyne> and suddenly things get crazy
05[18:21] <nch> is there any interesting player movement happening
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[18:21] <gamegeek2> at WAO 2 they dropped games to teams led by stephen liu and neil gurram
[18:21] <gamegeek2> which is to be expected because those guys are really damn good
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[18:22] <heterodyne> where did they play wao
05[18:22] <nch> I am excited about this potential Caleb/Maia/Graham/Weijia team
05[18:22] <nch> I think that would be cool
[18:22] <t-bar> is maia a physicist
[18:22] <gamegeek2> http://www.hsquizbowl.org/db/tournaments/4754/stats/all_games/
[18:22] <gamegeek2> also notable: neil and stephen haven't atrophied at all
05[18:22] <nch> I believe she is
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05[18:23] <nch> wait no I think she's doing math
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[18:24] <t-bar> what does the UG title picture look like?
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[18:24] <t-bar> is berkeley UG?
05[18:25] <nch> Berkeley is UG for ACF Nationals
05[18:25] <nch> so they'll win that
05[18:25] <nch> for ICT you may have to read beyond the top bracket
05[18:25] <nch> the best undergraduate team at ICT is probably Berkeley B
05[18:26] <nch> Missouri and Oklahoma are also in the mix
[18:26] <gamegeek2> when is the last time a UG team won acf nationals?
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[18:26] <gamegeek2> UVA 2014 could have hypothetically won as a UG team but they played Evan obviously
[18:27] <gamegeek2> one might be able to make this argument about Maryland last year as well
[18:27] <gamegeek2> though ophir on music is pretty critical
05[18:27] <nch> Jordan knows enough music
05[18:28] <nch> he wouldn't have made it all up
[18:28] <t-bar> according to the QBWiki, the only UG ACF Nats champ is Virginia in 1997
05[18:28] <nch> but it wouldn't lose any games that Maryland won
[18:29] <heterodyne> yeah the only game that they won by less than 2 tossups was against Berkeley, where ophir went 0/1