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- [10:13:31] <mime> Hello, fellow European and transatlantic skeletons!
- [10:13:33] <The_M> oh yes she is
- [10:13:51] <The_M> I have the distinct feeling thats the universe I should be in
- [10:14:52] <The_M> the only interesting thing about mulitverses is the mechanism by which it splits
- [10:14:59] <The_M> and ....
- [10:15:10] <The_M> its actually quite a good explanation
- [10:15:52] <The_M> each universe splits into an infinite number of possible outcomes
- [10:16:03] <The_M> each atom moving a certain way
- [10:16:45] <The_M> poof, new universe
- [10:18:00] <mime> Are you afraid you have been misplaced, The_M?
- [10:18:45] <The_M> well...I have this distinct feeling of 'noooooo this is not what is supposed to happen'
- [10:19:27] <The_M> but we should realize that civilisation does not progress in a straight linear fashion
- [10:19:29] <mime> Hehe
- [10:19:43] <The_M> the fall of rome and all that
- [10:20:35] <mime> Well, there is certain historical causation between events and such in world history. Time however is not linear, it seems.
- [10:21:09] <The_M> yeah
- [10:21:16] <The_M> but its not assured
- [10:21:21] <The_M> not even in the long run
- [10:21:33] <The_M> humanity can still be destroyed
- [10:21:44] <The_M> civilisation even
- [10:21:51] <mime> Yes?
- [10:22:12] <The_M> yeah, why not
- [10:22:20] <mime> It would be a massive accomplishment to destroy all of humanity, it seems very undoable.
- [10:22:29] <The_M> really
- [10:22:40] <mime> Yes, consider what it would take.
- [10:22:43] <The_M> meteors
- [10:22:48] <The_M> nuclear war
- [10:22:51] <mime> Yeah, something like that
- [10:22:59] <The_M> overpopulation
- [10:23:03] <mime> Nuclear war, no
- [10:23:04] <The_M> a flu
- [10:23:07] <mime> Overpopulation, no
- [10:23:12] <mime> A flu, no
- [10:23:24] <deRuyte9> anti-conception
- [10:23:26] <mime> Maybe a meteorite.
- [10:23:28] <The_M> well usually some would survive
- [10:23:39] <The_M> mime, I just read an article about human teeth
- [10:23:53] <The_M> 2% of people are born without small incisors
- [10:24:29] <The_M> 20% never develop wisdom teeth
- [10:24:47] <The_M> and 25% of us have wisdom teeth that stay horizontal
- [10:24:59] <mime> Shocking?
- [10:25:11] <The_M> dare I say.....human evolution
- [10:25:32] <mime> I am not sure mere malfunction is evolutionary progress
- [10:25:34] <The_M> well, they did some research on old skeletons
- [10:25:44] <The_M> and our teeth are getting smaller
- [10:26:06] <The_M> over the past 1000 years, just a few procentpoints per generation
- [10:26:25] <The_M> its not malfunction mime
- [10:26:27] <mime> Well, there is a difference in teeth size compared to ancient humanoids, yes. But that 25% are born with such and so teeth, do not mean it has something do to with evolution in itself.
- [10:26:32] <mime> Its mere malfunction.
- [10:26:42] <The_M> hmmm
- [10:26:58] <mime> To be born without incisors is indeed a malfunction.
- [10:27:14] <The_M> it seems like our jaws are getting smaller and smaller....leaving less and less room for teeth to fully develop
- [10:27:42] <mime> The jaws are a little bit smaller than they used to be millions of years ago, yes.
- [10:27:57] <The_M> no no, not a little bit
- [10:28:04] <The_M> thats actually a big difference
- [10:28:35] <The_M> we have less powerful jaws, and that means we have a less rigid skull
- [10:28:38] <mime> I wouldnt say there is a huge difference in the jaw, from an evolutionary perspective. It looks the same way, it operates the same way.
- [10:28:42] <The_M> allowing for brain growth
- [10:28:50] <mime> Its just a little bit smaller. Its not like it do not chew anymore or anything like that.
- [10:28:52] <The_M> well, a jaw is a jaw yes
- [10:28:57] <mime> Nah
- [10:28:58] <The_M> hehe
- [10:29:04] <mime> A jaw isnt just a jaw, on the contrary.
- [10:29:11] <The_M> you dont chew as much as your ancestors
- [10:29:19] <mime> Dogs has jaws, but they are incapable of chewing, for example.
- [10:29:28] <The_M> what
- [10:29:52] <The_M> lol
- [10:30:00] <mime> Their jaws do not have the flexibility to chew food.
- [10:30:35] <mime> Its a strict rigid jaw which only moves in one direction, opposed to our jaws which moves in multiple directions.
- [10:31:00] <mime> The jaw hasnt undergone a very huge evolutionary change, except from becoming a little smaller.
- [10:31:02] <The_M> well, that probably has to do with what we eat
- [10:31:15] <mime> It has to do with bone construction, The_M
- [10:31:23] <The_M> well of course not, haha
- [10:31:41] <The_M> our food has changed, but we haven't become meateaters
- [10:31:48] <mime> But from the way you speak, a few examples of malfunction is suddenly evolutionary caused or something like that.
- [10:31:53] <The_M> no no
- [10:32:12] <The_M> there is evidence that our teeth and jaws are getting smaller
- [10:32:33] <mime> As I said, the jaw hasnt undergone a very huge evolutionary change, except from becoming a little smaller
- [10:32:38] <The_M> I did not just mention the 25% with horizontal wisdom teeth, I gave two other examples
- [10:33:13] <The_M> there is nothing malfunctionary about loosing teeth for which your jaw has no room
- [10:33:36] <mime> To have horizontal wisdom teeth is a malfunction, indeed
- [10:33:54] <mime> Same as being born without incisors, as you also mentioned.
- [10:34:02] <The_M> really?
- [10:34:12] <mime> Indeed. Such malfunction even require correction.
- [10:34:17] <The_M> and without wisdom teeth?
- [10:34:21] <The_M> really?
- [10:34:25] <mime> Indeed
- [10:34:28] <The_M> I dont think I have ever heard that
- [10:34:34] <The_M> people having extra teeth put in
- [10:35:09] <mime> Wisdom teeth do not have any useful purpose today, so from a practical point of view, such a malfunction isnt very severe, but it can cause other problems.
- [10:35:36] <The_M> well
- [10:35:54] <The_M> our teeth do not have any function, other than social
- [10:36:02] <mime> Hehe
- [10:36:12] <mime> Food is merely a social thing, huh?
- [10:36:22] <The_M> no
- [10:36:24] <The_M> teeth
- [10:36:38] <mime> Teeth function to break down food, The_M
- [10:36:44] <The_M> hmmm
- [10:36:54] <The_M> you could survive without
- [10:37:03] <The_M> boiling and cooking, and cutting with knifes
- [10:37:03] <mime> Sure, if you have adopted food
- [10:37:13] <The_M> yes
- [10:37:17] <The_M> thats the idea
- [10:37:28] <mime> Even when using a knife you are still in the need of digesting the food, and here teeth find its proper role.
- [10:37:29] <The_M> we no longer need teeth because we cook and boil our food
- [10:37:38] <The_M> dont think so mime
- [10:37:45] <mans0n> HALELEUHJAHHHHHHHHHHH
- [10:37:49] <mime> Well, its biological fact.
- [10:37:50] <The_M> you could get the same effect
- [10:37:53] <The_M> no
- [10:37:55] <mans0n> GOD WILL DELIVER
- [10:38:00] <The_M> hehe
- [10:38:09] <mime> That you could get the same effect by other means, do not mean teeth are not ment to break down food.
- [10:38:11] <mans0n> thank ya jesus
- [10:38:13] <mans0n> i feel good
- [10:38:21] <mans0n> god still works miracles
- [10:38:32] <The_M> sure mime
- [10:38:41] <The_M> that is their function in essence
- [10:39:00] <The_M> but the idea is that we no longer need that function, and that is why teeth are disappearing
- [10:39:10] <The_M> I wonder....
- [10:39:16] <mime> I have not heard of teeth disappearing due to any evolutionary reason.
- [10:39:20] <The_M> would caesarian births lead to bigger brains?
- [10:39:30] <The_M> mime, I just told you
- [10:39:38] <mime> Nah, you told us about malfunctions.
- [10:39:42] <The_M> 25% no longer develop wisdom teeth
- [10:39:51] <The_M> and 2% no longer have small incisors
- [10:39:53] <mime> 25% do indeed develop them, but wrongly
- [10:40:00] <The_M> 20%
- [10:40:08] <deRuyte9> you cannot switch off the gene for teeth growth
- [10:40:10] <The_M> wow, so you do pay attention!
- [10:40:11] <mime> Malfunctions and evolution is two different things.
- [10:40:15] <The_M> LOL
- [10:40:19] <The_M> oh dear mime
- [10:40:22] <deRuyte9> they"ll always be growing
- [10:40:36] <The_M> what utter nonsense deRuyter
- [10:40:42] <The_M> how do you know this to be true?
- [10:40:49] <deRuyte9> if you have the gene, you cannot lose the gene
- [10:40:55] <mime> You read too much popular science, The_M
- [10:41:20] <deRuyte9> its like having a big nose, your stuck with it, it wont get smaller
- [10:42:03] <The_M> ?
- [10:42:21] <The_M> what do you mean deRuyter?
- [10:42:49] <The_M> well mime, its the current scientific theory about why our teeth are getting smaller and even disappearing
- [10:43:01] <deRuyte9> you suggest that you can 'dial' (down) a gene for body-part growth
- [10:43:23] <The_M> haha deRuyter, of course, evolution works like that
- [10:43:30] <The_M> dial down, dial up
- [10:43:36] <The_M> anything
- [10:43:52] <The_M> there are people that develop two appendices....
- [10:43:56] <deRuyte9> you cannot have all body part sizes hard-coded in your gene - thats plainly impossible
- [10:44:11] <deRuyte9> a gene is discrete
- [10:44:14] <The_M> I think you are strawmanning again deRuyter
- [10:44:23] <The_M> I did not speak of any such thing
- [10:44:37] <deRuyte9> either you have the gene for a nose or you dont, there is very few in between
- [10:44:45] <The_M> ...?
- [10:44:49] <The_M> what about a very small nose
- [10:44:58] <deRuyte9> so gradual downsizing is impossible
- [10:45:11] <The_M> really
- [10:45:23] <The_M> you never noticed some people having small noses?
- [10:45:36] <deRuyte9> how would you code for every possible smaller nose size from normal to zero?
- [10:46:07] <The_M> haha
- [10:46:14] <The_M> thats a serious question?
- [10:46:19] <deRuyte9> exactly, obviously because body part size is NOT caused by genes and hence its not evolutionary
- [10:46:36] <The_M> LOL
- [10:46:50] <The_M> so genes do not control body part sizes????
- [10:46:54] <The_M> wow
- [10:47:08] <deRuyte9> no, just their occurrence or absence
- [10:47:20] <The_M> deRuyter...did you know that law enforcement is working on exactly this.....
- [10:47:24] <deRuyte9> the gradual size are caused by other things
- [10:47:55] <The_M> you can tell stuff about a suspect, just by looking at his dna
- [10:48:09] <deRuyte9> its impossible to code every conceivable body part size in a finite gene
- [10:48:22] <The_M> really?
- [10:48:30] <deRuyte9> how would you do that?
- [10:48:38] <deRuyte9> you cant and therefore it doesnt happen
- [10:48:42] <The_M> LOL
- [10:48:44] <The_M> no
- [10:48:54] <The_M> I propose another solution to this conundrum
- [10:49:00] <The_M> you dont understand genes
- [10:49:08] <The_M> could that be possible?
- [10:49:29] <deRuyte9> how many possible nose sizes are there?
- [10:49:34] <deRuyte9> give me a number
- [10:49:37] <The_M> wow
- [10:49:46] <deRuyte9> 2?
- [10:49:46] <mans0n> deRuyte9: 1947
- [10:49:47] <The_M> almost infinite I would say
- [10:49:56] <The_M> elephants have huge noses
- [10:49:57] <mans0n> The_M: wrong
- [10:50:01] <The_M> and my nose is dainty
- [10:50:02] <mans0n> i just counted
- [10:50:05] <mans0n> its 1947.
- [10:50:38] <The_M> but ok deRuyter, lets say 200.000
- [10:50:50] <deRuyte9> so you need 2^^10 (ca. 1947) genes just for nose size
- [10:50:50] <mans0n> i will allow it
- [10:51:01] <The_M> no
- [10:51:02] <deRuyte9> thats preposterous and therefore impossible
- [10:51:11] <deRuyte9> that would be just for the nose
- [10:51:12] <The_M> and thats not how genes work haha
- [10:51:14] <The_M> yeah
- [10:51:23] <The_M> want me to tell you how it works?
- [10:51:30] <deRuyte9> men only has so many genes (10.000?)
- [10:51:37] <The_M> want me to tell you how it works?
- [10:51:51] <deRuyte9> these 10.000 genes cant possibly code for all possible body part size
- [10:52:08] <The_M> you have gene for growing a nose, and a gene for stopping a nose to grow, and one that measures time.....
- [10:52:18] <The_M> :-)
- [10:52:31] <The_M> god
- [10:52:47] <The_M> you dont know the first thing about genes, and you just blabber on
- [10:52:58] <The_M> dunning-f ing-kruger
- [10:53:18] <The_M> so, just a few genes regulate nose size deRuyter
- [10:53:22] <The_M> next question
- [10:53:48] <deRuyte9> you are guessing with your 'time-measuring genes'
- [10:53:54] <The_M> am I
- [10:54:01] <The_M> how would you know
- [10:54:10] Viljami (~androirc@52D9E6B5.cm-11-1d.dynamic.ziggo.nl) left IRC (Read error: EOF from client)
- [10:54:10] <The_M> you've never even opened a book on genes
- [10:54:13] <The_M> come on
- [10:55:34] <The_M> what they are researching in the netherlands deRuyter is the link between genes and faces
- [10:55:51] <The_M> it should yield a new technique for identifying suspects
- [10:56:24] <mime> Someone is selling the King James Bible which belonged to the Apostle Paul.
- [10:56:28] <The_M> imagine the police just finding dna, with this new technique they could make a picture of his face
- [10:56:31] <deRuyte9> so why does the body not change the size of the nose after someone had plastic surgery?
- [10:56:53] <deRuyte9> it should if your fantasy 'time-measuring gene' existed
- [10:56:56] <The_M> good question!
- [10:57:03] <The_M> very good question!
- [10:57:25] <The_M> what you should understand is that dna and the human body are just machines
- [10:57:48] <The_M> the body has no 'self image' of what it should look
- [10:58:12] <The_M> there is no conscious effort checking the actual size of your nose
- [10:58:17] <mime> Yes, it has. It even recognize others of the same image, to very specific degrees.
- [10:58:26] <The_M> LOL
- [10:58:36] <mime> Even knowing the physical and mental difference between parents, for example
- [10:58:43] <The_M> LOL
- [10:58:50] guerro (gur@cpe-70-113-148-212.tx.res.rr.com) joined the channel
- [10:58:52] <The_M> so your body knows these things consciously????
- [10:58:54] <The_M> come on
- [10:59:00] <The_M> no
- [10:59:04] <mime> That is correct, you are a human.
- [10:59:06] <The_M> your MIND does yes
- [10:59:15] <mime> its a specific type of animal.
- [10:59:22] <The_M> your MIND understands your nose is now smaller after surgery
- [10:59:23] <mime> The mind is something supernatural?
- [10:59:37] <mime> Nah, its physically smaller after such an operation
- [10:59:40] <The_M> well...its non physical mime
- [10:59:59] <The_M> you cant weigh of a kilo of mind
- [11:00:07] <mime> The brain is very physical, The_M
- [11:00:11] <The_M> you can weigh a kilo of brains
- [11:00:15] <The_M> come on, dont play games
- [11:00:29] <mime> Mental activity is neurological activity as well, which is quite physical.
- [11:01:02] <The_M> hehe
- [11:01:06] <The_M> nice try
- [11:01:23] <The_M> mental ACTIVITY
- [11:01:25] <mime> You deny that neurological activity is physical?
- [11:01:32] <mime> Yes?
- [11:01:42] <The_M> no, stop strawmanning
- [11:01:45] <mime> What?
- [11:01:50] <The_M> stop changing words around
- [11:02:02] <The_M> the mind and mental activity are two separate things
- [11:02:06] <The_M> just like brains
- [11:02:13] <The_M> and chemical activity
- [11:02:18] <The_M> the mind
- [11:02:24] <mime> No, mental activity is what the brain does when it operates.
- [11:02:31] <The_M> exactly
- [11:03:02] <The_M> so anyhoo
- [11:03:04] <The_M> noses
- [11:03:38] <The_M> once the genes for nose growth shut the process down, nothing happens when you cut off a piece of your nose
- [11:03:48] <The_M> the genes remain dormant
- [11:03:55] <The_M> in some species they dont
- [11:04:05] <mime> If you cut of your nose, you will probably bleed to death.
- [11:04:16] <mime> There is a huge risk of it, at least.
- [11:04:23] <The_M> lizards and amphibians do have a process that regrows limbs lost
- [11:04:50] <The_M> and to be clear deRuyter, this process is also understood, and understood to be regulated with genes
- [11:04:55] <The_M> its not magic
- [11:04:58] <The_M> :-)
- [11:05:22] <The_M> LOL
- [11:05:30] <mime> <The_M> there is no conscious effort checking the actual size of your nose
- [11:05:33] <The_M> noses are not regulated by genes!!!
- [11:05:39] <The_M> exactly mime
- [11:05:58] <mime> Actually humans makes conscious effort to familiarize with others.
- [11:06:07] <The_M> yes
- [11:06:14] <mime> OK.
- [11:06:21] <The_M> again
- [11:06:26] <The_M> stop strawmanning
- [11:06:38] <The_M> we are talking genes, you are talking human minds
- [11:06:44] <mime> You are the one who arent very precise, The_M
- [11:06:53] <The_M> I was very precise
- [11:06:58] <mime> You are saying to different things, already.
- [11:07:06] <The_M> thats exactly why I used the phrase 'conscious effort'
- [11:07:10] <The_M> no no
- [11:07:24] <mime> First you say: <The_M> there is no conscious effort checking the actual size of your nose. Then you say: <mime> Actually humans makes conscious effort to familiarize with others. <The_M> yes
- [11:07:28] <The_M> thats exactly why I used the phrase 'conscious effort'
- [11:07:39] <The_M> yup
- [11:07:44] <mime> But you are already in a massive contradiction.
- [11:07:45] <The_M> and now stop playing games
- [11:07:52] <The_M> not interested in bs mime
- [11:07:56] <The_M> you know this
- [11:08:06] <The_M> you dont even get three strikes on this one
- [11:08:36] <The_M> so deRuyter, any more gene-related mystery I can clear up for you?
- [11:08:42] <mime> First you are saying humans do not make conscious efforts in familiarizing with others, which include an intricate social behavior adaption such as interpreting mimics, and knowing the difference between two one-egged twins, and then you say they do.
- [11:08:52] <The_M> or are you reading a book on human genetics???
- [11:09:11] <mime> You are not very precise in neither statements or language here.
- [11:09:39] <The_M> that should be either, not neither, right....IK....
- [11:11:21] <mime> It is very important to understand the difference between popular science, and science. The latter do not use language the same way the former do.
- [11:11:56] <The_M> mime, that research is still being done, in the real world
- [11:12:12] <The_M> enabling to put a face to a dna sample
- [11:12:23] <mime> Thus one very often end up in contradictory and rather dumb conclusions when going by the former, which should be apparent for most.
- [11:12:44] <mime> Like "the body do know have a self-image" and such.
- [11:13:14] <The_M> well we were talking in the context of plastic surgery mime
- [11:13:18] <mime> The body do indeed recognize itself, even maintain itself and heal itself when necessary and possible.
- [11:13:37] <The_M> yeah, and we understand the mechanism
- [11:13:47] <mime> OK.
- [11:13:57] <The_M> hehe
- [11:14:00] <The_M> LOL
- [11:14:08] <mime> Weird that one would say the opposite :-)
- [11:14:18] <The_M> one of the rare moments in life, where the word 'cancer' can make me smile
- [11:14:29] <The_M> what about cancer mime
- [11:14:33] <The_M> what is cancer?
- [11:14:39] <mime> A gene mutation
- [11:14:43] <The_M> a momentary lap in the body's self image?
- [11:14:44] <The_M> ah
- [11:14:46] <The_M> genes
- [11:14:47] <The_M> ok
- [11:14:54] <The_M> lapse
- [11:15:05] <mime> That the body get sick and injured, do not make it any less aware of itself.
- [11:15:05] <The_M> btw, it might well be
- [11:15:07] <The_M> ...
- [11:15:20] <The_M> hehe
- [11:15:49] <mime> Indeed its very familiar with itself, and will start to attack cancer cells. The problem is that these trick the body to attack itself.
- [11:16:39] <The_M> :-)
- [11:16:45] <The_M> keep trying mime
- [11:16:55] <mime> The_M No need to be rude.
- [11:17:38] <mime> Just because you are mistaken when saying the body has no self-knowledge of itself, is no reason to reject fact.
- [11:18:04] <mime> Its very dangerous if the body isnt aware of itself, such as not being able to feel pain.
- [11:18:16] <The_M> LOL
- [11:18:41] <mime> You could burn yourself on a stove for example, in such cases. Or take a swim in very cold water.
- [11:18:47] <The_M> we were talking in the context of plastic surgery
- [11:19:11] <mime> You wouldnt notice that the body starts shutting down in order to protect itself, and keep vital organs and systems within a viable temperature.
- [11:20:09] <mime> Yeah, wouldnt make a difference of course, as one recognize those of the same and different traits as your specie and would be able to separate between one-egged twins and such.
- [11:20:17] <mime> We love freaks, The_M
- [11:21:05] <The_M> well I do yes, very interesting
- [11:21:34] <mime> That is because the body is greater than a mere thought-scheme of popular science mixed with personal sentiment.
- [11:22:12] <The_M> ah
- [11:30:17] <IrishKing> +
- [11:30:50] <IrishKing> Good morming Team!!
- [11:31:09] <The_M> good morning IK
- [11:33:57] <IrishKing> Greetings my favorite Dutch Atheist!
- [11:34:35] ^Pilgrim^ (~Pilgrim@c122-106-94-128.randw3.nsw.optusnet.com.au) left IRC (Read error: Operation timed out)
- [11:35:04] Holston (~Holston@76-193-126-145.lightspeed.chrlnc.sbcglobal.net) joined the channel
- [11:35:09] <The_M> hehe
- [11:36:44] <mime> IrishKing kicked mime from the channel (Shouldn't you be sucking Mouser's short stubby d*?)
- [11:36:51] <mime> I allowed myself to censor that.
- [11:37:47] <mime> The lack of meat on Fridays can make some people a little cranky.
- [11:40:52] KRISTINA1983 (~MADE-IN83@vlan-132-6-32.comnet.bg) left IRC (Ping timeout)
- [11:42:51] wook (~quassel@195.174.180.237) left IRC (Ping timeout)
- [11:43:26] wook (~quassel@173.239.199.76) joined the channel
- [11:47:35] Holston (~Holston@76-193-126-145.lightspeed.chrlnc.sbcglobal.net) left IRC (EOF from client)
- [11:47:47] guerro (gur@cpe-70-113-148-212.tx.res.rr.com) left IRC (Ping timeout)
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- [11:50:39] <mime> http://www.statoil.com/en/news/first-electricity-delivered-from-dudgeon.html
- [11:51:15] wook (~quassel@173.239.199.76) left IRC (Ping timeout)
- [11:51:20] X sets mode +l 23
- [11:51:23] <mime> The Dudgeon Offshore Wind Farm site is located 32 km offshore Norfolk, UK and, and is 20 km east of the Sheringham Shoal Offshore Wind Farm, where Statoil currently holds a 40% share. The Dudgeon Offshore Wind farm consists of 67 six-megawatt wind turbine generators with a total installed capacity of 402 MW producing 1.73 TWh/year - equivalent to the consumption of more than 400,000 UK households.
- [11:52:13] <mime> The installation of the remaining 66 wind turbine generators is expected to be completed by Q4/2017, when the wind farm will be fully operational.
- [11:52:15] pete- sets mode +b *!*oskar@104.243.241.*
- [11:52:15] <@pete-> mime, You've been devoiced 55 minutes for insultingt comments and your banned by TRK!
- [11:52:40] <TRK> also now i am going to ban you foir 30 days
- [11:52:44] wook (~quassel@104.237.91.27) joined the channel
- [11:53:28] <TRK> you have been nwarned many time for ur comments
- [11:53:40] <The_M> I've missed someting
- [11:55:32] pete- kicked mime from the channel (insulting comments towards channel users)
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