API tools faq
paste
Advertisement
JaysonSunshine

Theism; Trump

JaysonSunshine
Jan 27th, 2018
543
0
Never
Add comment
Not a member of Pastebin yet? Sign Up, it unlocks many cool features!
text 26.58 KB | None | 0 0
raw download clone embed print report
  1. 23:52 +++ Ekko has given voice to thanat0s
  2. 23:52 MarshlLaw He's still groping for a solution
  3. 23:52 GrandArb MarshlLaw: Because he has a low IQ, is impulsive, and has multiple personality disorders?
  4. 23:52 MarshlLaw He's still groping for a solution
  5. 23:52 Zeee he likes his cheeseburgers and diet coke
  6. 23:52 MarshlLaw It's funny listening to you libruhl Trump haters
  7. 23:53 MarshlLaw It's like Rachel Maddow but without the talent
  8. 23:53 GrandArb Rachel is so smart.
  9. 23:53 MarshlLaw a genius
  10. 23:53 Zeee Rachel madcow is awesome
  11. 23:53 lednerk as far as i understand, only innocent people fire people who are investigating thme
  12. 23:53 lednerk them*
  13. 23:53 GrandArb lednerk: He's just trying to fight back!
  14. 23:53 MarshlLaw Nah people fire pesty employees that waste time and money all the time
  15. 23:54 lednerk GrandArb: LOL
  16. 23:54 MarshlLaw For 1 mueller there's 100 more flunkies on the payroll
  17. 23:54 lednerk im sure u know, lol
  18. 23:54 GrandArb Just because he wants to burn down our 240-year old country so he can collude with our enemy, Russia, doesn't mean it's a crime.
  19. 23:54 MarshlLaw I do know I'm a former CEO
  20. 23:54 MarshlLaw I fired lots of people that weren't investigating me
  21. 23:54 ThomasJ Trump has yet to realize that Mueller is 10 times smarter than he is, absolutely dedicated to public service, and is a moral person.
  22. 23:54 GrandArb MarshlLaw: The president is not the CEO of America.
  23. 23:55 Zeee marsh, you deem slandering a patriot like meuller is okey?
  24. 23:55 lednerk i doubt trump will talk to mueller, he'll dig himself into a hole
  25. 23:55 GrandArb Zeee: He's the law and order candidate.
  26. 23:55 MarshlLaw That's what I think is funny about the libtards is that, none of these college students, and most women, have never been in business and do not know how to run one, nor do any of them especially millenials know how to COMPROMISE
  27. 23:55 GrandArb Which means conducting coups against the FBI.
  28. 23:55 GrandArb quietly adds MarshlLaw to ignore
  29. 23:55 lednerk everyone who doesn't agree with trump is a libtard? LUL
  30. 23:56 lednerk release the memo!
  31. 23:56 lednerk MarshlLaw: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/07/11/us/politics/donald-trump-jr-email-text.html evidence of collusion
  32. 23:56 ThomasJ Trump only did well in real estate. Every actual business he tried went up in flames, starting with the NJ Generals and his casinos.
  33. 23:56 GrandArb lednerk: MarshlLaw wants Trump to collude with our enemy, Russia.
  34. 23:56 lednerk collusion isn't illegal though
  35. 23:56 GrandArb That is because MarshlLaw is an enemy of the USA.
  36. 23:56 Zeee look at the dossier, it's troubling to say the least
  37. 23:56 lednerk MarshlLaw: those emails are the ones don jr released LOL
  38. 23:57 lednerk lol
  39. 23:57 GrandArb ThomasJ: A lot of Trump's success in real estate is due to money laundering.
  40. 23:57 lednerk don jr, jared kushner and paul manafort colluded with the russian government
  41. 23:57 ThomasJ Yeah, just like Stormy Daniels, which is basically a proven fact.
  42. 23:57 GrandArb lednerk: And Donald Trump.
  43. 23:57 lednerk GrandArb: agreed
  44. 23:57 GrandArb He worked with a foreign government against American citizens.
  45. 23:58 lednerk those 3 didn't do anything without trump's approval
  46. 23:58 GrandArb Because he is a traitor.
  47. 23:58 ThomasJ What kind of scumbag cheats on his beautiful model wife only months after their child is born?
  48. 23:58 lednerk thats what it looks like... just that email
  49. 23:58 lednerk those emails*
  50. 23:58 GrandArb And after being found guilty of treason (he gets due process, like all humans), he should be hung from his neck until he is dead.
  51. 23:58 GrandArb If he's found not guilty, assuming the trial is fair and robust, then there should be no formal punishments.
  52. 23:58 GrandArb Because of rule of law.
  53. 23:59 lednerk also obstruction of justice
  54. 23:59 GrandArb But, if found guilty, I vote for the Washington Monument for his hanging.
  55. 23:59 Zeee I don't believe in death penalty anyways
  56. 23:59 lednerk Zeee: same
  57. 23:59 GrandArb Zeee: Death penalty is probably unreasonable.
  58. 23:59 lednerk death penalty is cruel in general
  59. 23:59 GrandArb However, if a nation has a death penalty, which the USA does, treason against the nation is the best reason to do it.
  60. 23:59 fordy true
  61. 23:59 GrandArb It could be very beneficial for the rule of law in America to see a traitor like Trump hung from his neck until he is dead.
  62. 23:59 Zeee life in prison is fine for those deserving it
  63. 00:00 lednerk what bothers me is how trump leaked israeli secrets to the russians
  64. 00:00 GrandArb It would remind people thinking of committing treason, 'Hmm, maybe I shouldn't do that.'
  65. 00:00 GrandArb lednerk: He is a traitor -- he works for Russia.
  66. 00:00 +++ asteroid set the channel to mode +l 170
  67. 00:00 GrandArb Why are you bothered he's doing his job?
  68. 00:00 lednerk GrandArb: do u think he owes the russians money?
  69. 00:00 GrandArb Yes.
  70. 00:00 GrandArb Hundreds of millions.
  71. 00:00 ThomasJ Get ready for a war--Trump needs a major distraction. That tail is getting ready to wag the dog big time...
  72. 00:00 lednerk thats why he wont release his taxes
  73. 00:01 GrandArb Donald Trump Jr. stated they get most of their money from Russia.
  74. 00:01 GrandArb Did you see that interview.
  75. 00:01 *** metl joined #politics
  76. 00:01 lednerk yes i did
  77. 00:01 lednerk i also watched the video from 2013 when trump says he has a relationship with putin and then another video from 2016 where he says he has no idea who putin is
  78. 00:01 GrandArb Thomas Jefferson said the Tree of Liberty has to be watered, from time to time, with the blood of patriots and traitors.
  79. 00:01 +++ Ekko has given voice to metl
  80. 00:02 *** redryder quit (Quit: BRB)
  81. 00:02 ThomasJ About a decade ago, I remember thinking that Dubya was dumb. But in comparison, Trump makes him look like a quantum physicist.
  82. 00:02 lednerk i miss dubya
  83. 00:02 lednerk and i miss dick cheney
  84. 00:03 GrandArb lednerk: W. Bush was a terrible president and should be in prison.
  85. 00:03 lednerk i'll take W over Trump
  86. 00:03 GrandArb The Iraq War killed over 5000 Americans and grievously injured over 25000.
  87. 00:03 ThomasJ Grand, the Iraq War a travesty.
  88. 00:03 gjvc good morning lednerk
  89. 00:03 GrandArb Notably, only 3000 were killed on 2001 Sep 11.
  90. 00:03 lednerk gjvc: hello
  91. 00:03 ThomasJ Grand and hundreds of thousands of Iraqis...
  92. 00:03 GrandArb Yes.
  93. 00:04 GrandArb And 7 trillion dollars while 40 million Americans live in 3rd world poverty.
  94. 00:04 GrandArb The GOP is the primary enemy of the USA.
  95. 00:04 lednerk amnesty don
  96. 00:04 gjvc GrandArb, i have been loudly warning about povery in America for 20 years
  97. 00:04 ThomasJ Actually, it would cost billions to round them up and deport them.
  98. 00:04 GrandArb gjvc: It's at catastrophic levels.
  99. 00:05 GrandArb Both Democratic and GOP policies are to blame.
  100. 00:05 GrandArb The solution is to elect people like Bernard Sanders president.
  101. 00:05 GrandArb Social democracy is the only mainstream political ideology that will solve this problem.
  102. 00:05 GrandArb A majority of Americans support the social democracy of Sanders.
  103. 00:05 ThomasJ These young people committed no crime. They were brought here as children. I hope you don't dare call yourself a Christian.
  104. 00:06 lednerk sean hannity's twitter is missing
  105. 00:06 GrandArb ThomasJ: The Christian position is to accept 100% of immigrants.
  106. 00:06 GrandArb Including terrorists.
  107. 00:06 lednerk do u think robert mueller arrested him?
  108. 00:06 GrandArb That is weird.
  109. 00:06 GrandArb Christians do not worry about being killed by terrorists.
  110. 00:06 GrandArb The goal of a Christian life is not to avoid death.
  111. 00:07 GrandArb For whosever believes in Christ shall have life everlasting in heaven, according to Christ.
  112. 00:07 GrandArb And how you treat immigrants is how you will be treated by God, according to Christ.
  113. 00:07 metl most americans are rural, white and non college educated. much of rural america still lacks internet
  114. 00:07 GrandArb Christ has a lengthy parable on this exact point, naturally.
  115. 00:07 GrandArb Most American Christians hate Christ, however.
  116. 00:08 ThomasJ Marsh, they come here to work and do the jobs you would never do. I know I won't find you tarring a rooftop here in Phoenix during the summer when it's 120 degrees...
  117. 00:08 GrandArb metl: Most Americans lives in cities.
  118. 00:08 metl there is no scientific method to determine who is a christian
  119. 00:08 GrandArb metl: My standard is self-definition.
  120. 00:08 GrandArb Over 50% of Americans who self-define as Christian hate Christ.
  121. 00:08 GrandArb How do we know? Because over 50% of American Christians like Donald Trump.
  122. 00:08 GrandArb And if you like Donald Trump, then you hate Christ.
  123. 00:09 GrandArb As Donald Trump is the exact opposite of Christ on every thought and action.
  124. 00:09 metl cities are not most of america
  125. 00:09 GrandArb metl: You have changed theses.
  126. 00:09 metl morons
  127. 00:09 GrandArb It's a good intellectual practice to resolve theses before invoking new ones.
  128. 00:09 GrandArb It creates a sense of accountability.
  129. 00:10 metl lol
  130. 00:10 GrandArb quietly places metl on ignore
  131. 00:11 GrandArb I know you dislike political correctness.
  132. 00:11 GrandArb I put you on ignore because you're dramatically dumber than me.
  133. 00:11 ThomasJ Susan, true. There isn't a huge market for females paying male prostitutes.
  134. 00:11 GrandArb Straight talk.
  135. 00:11 gjvc http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-42841615
  136. 00:12 ThomasJ If you actually believe in individual freedom and choice, then prostitution should be legal.
  137. 00:12 ThomasJ Just make it as safe as possible.
  138. 00:12 GrandArb ThomasJ: It's more complicated than that.
  139. 00:12 GrandArb Yes, in an ideal world, I am for prostitution to be legal.
  140. 00:12 GrandArb However, we do not live in an ideal world.
  141. 00:13 GrandArb And people making choices often do so under distress.
  142. 00:13 GrandArb We have to factor that into our analysis. For example, are women with no economic opportunities who choose to become prostitutes, exercising free choice?
  143. 00:13 Gumbie 2 for $5 here
  144. 00:13 GrandArb It's a legitimately challenging philosophical dilemma.
  145. 00:13 *** metl left #politics (Leaving)
  146. 00:14 GrandArb What if they are not highly educated about the opportunities in their region? Can you exercise informed consent without being educated?
  147. 00:14 Gumbie theres plenty
  148. 00:14 ThomasJ Republicans like to pontificate on morality, but they're just as warped as anyone. Look at Trump's buddy Steve Wynn, the GOP Finance Chairman, just outed for being a complete, absolute pervert.
  149. 00:14 GrandArb ThomasJ: They are not just as warped as anybody.
  150. 00:14 GrandArb The evidence is clear: Abrahamists are less moral on average.
  151. 00:14 GrandArb They have lower rates of empathy and higher rates of interpersonal violence.
  152. 00:14 GrandArb Citations available.
  153. 00:15 GrandArb The most moral children are those of non-religious families/parents.
  154. 00:15 GrandArb Citations available.
  155. 00:15 ThomasJ Susan, someone should have told him that his plastic surgeries don't make him look younger, but rather he looks like a freakish alien recovered from a crash in Roswell.
  156. 00:15 +++ VonMises has taken voice from MarshlLaw
  157. 00:16 *** MarshlLaw left #politics
  158. 00:16 --- Ekko has banned *!*@23-251-204-2.static-ip.telepacific.net
  159. 00:17 GrandArb Sean Hannity hates America.
  160. 00:18 GrandArb He is an example of a factionalist as described by Constitution author James Madison in Federalist 10.
  161. 00:18 GrandArb Madison identified factionalists as the primary threat to the republic.
  162. 00:20 --- VonMises has unbanned vitog!*@*
  163. 00:21 gjvc owls
  164. 00:22 ThomasJ GrandArb, Hannity claims to be a devout Catholic. In my view, he's a putrid, radical nationalist who knows nothing of his faith.
  165. 00:23 fordy agreed ThomasJ
  166. 00:23 GrandArb ThomasJ: Sean Hannity hates Christ.
  167. 00:23 *** nospinzy quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
  168. 00:23 GrandArb Sean Hannity is the exact type of religious person that Christ frequently said to not be like.
  169. 00:23 fordy truth
  170. 00:26 ThomasJ My father was a fighter pilot who flew 89 combat missions over France and Germany during WWII. I grew up with absolute faith and patriotism in a family of nine children. I don't recognize this country anymore, it is so divided.
  171. 00:26 lednerk poor baron trump
  172. 00:26 ThomasJ I served myself in the Army, then entered studies to become a priest. Then it all changed with the Reagan era.
  173. 00:27 GrandArb ThomasJ: The rise of right-wing media in the 1990s was very harmful.
  174. 00:27 *** Aura joined #politics
  175. 00:27 GrandArb The religious right joining politics in the 1970s/1980s was damning.
  176. 00:27 GrandArb The persistent anti-intellectualism of the culture was cancerous.
  177. 00:27 +++ Ekko has given voice to Aura
  178. 00:28 ThomasJ Well, I left my studies to become a priest, became a convinced atheist for several decades, and realized that EVERY human life on this planet is just as important as every American life.
  179. 00:30 Gladih8er Jesus hates jews
  180. 00:30 ThomasJ I believe in God once again. I just don't think it is the God of any dogmatic faith. They all strive for the same transcendent reality, but their particulars are all wrong.
  181. 00:31 ThomasJ https://www.amazon.com/God-Exists-Not-Mine-Yours/dp/1514882299/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1517041853&sr=8-1&keywords=God+Exists+%28not+mine%2C+not+yours%29
  182. 00:31 GrandArb Theism seems mostly untenable.
  183. 00:31 ThomasJ Try that, if you wish to challenge yourself and your beliefs.
  184. 00:31 GrandArb Notably, science hasn't taken the theism hypothesis seriously for over 150 years.
  185. 00:33 Gladih8er Nor vice versa
  186. 00:33 ThomasJ GrandArb, science isn't a monolithic institution. Many accomplished scientists are also persons of faith. The Big Bang was first articulated by a Jesuit Catholic Priest, Lemaitre...
  187. 00:34 GrandArb ThomasJ: That doesn't seem relevant in this context.
  188. 00:34 GrandArb I agree that many theists have done science.
  189. 00:34 *** Ikoru quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  190. 00:34 GrandArb Science, however -- the methodology -- hasn't taken theism seriously for over 150 years.
  191. 00:35 Gumbie religion was invented by man, for one reason, to quell the masses.... It's dated, and ineffective today
  192. 00:35 GrandArb In scientific epistemology, people do not matter -- only data and methodology.
  193. 00:35 GrandArb There is no domain of knowledge in which theism is a meaningful hypothesis of causality.
  194. 00:35 GrandArb None.
  195. 00:35 ThomasJ Science deals with physical processes. It doesn't address meaning or purpose for human life. That is up to us.
  196. 00:35 GrandArb I disagree there's a very meaningful distinction between those two categories.
  197. 00:36 *** Aura quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
  198. 00:36 GrandArb Science is based in materialism -- there are only physical processes.
  199. 00:36 GrandArb To assert non-physical processes is to render oneself outside the scientific paradigm.
  200. 00:36 GrandArb Science is based in materialism because all competing models of reality weren't fruitful.
  201. 00:37 GrandArb Science studies everything that exists in the universe.
  202. 00:37 GrandArb That includes quarks, mental processes, evolution, religion, and values.
  203. 00:37 ThomasJ Grand, that is where materialists go wrong. Mind is NOT physical, and is more primary than matter. It is only mind that can assign meaning.
  204. 00:37 GrandArb I agree that meaning is dependent on mind.
  205. 00:37 GrandArb You can create a model in which mind is co-equal to other deep phenomena like matter, or space, or energy.
  206. 00:38 GrandArb The current metaphysics of science has mind as a very derived property of those deep phenomena.
  207. 00:38 GrandArb The current scientific paradigm -- with mind as a derived property -- has successfully explained a large range of phenomena in the universe.
  208. 00:38 ThomasJ And that is where I posit God. If these few pounds of matter in our skulls give rise to beings who can contemplate reality, then what can the total complexity of reality give rise to?
  209. 00:38 GrandArb Have you ever seen an equally successful model in which mind is articulated as a primary?
  210. 00:38 GrandArb I have researched this topic somewhat, as I am interested in Buddhism.
  211. 00:39 GrandArb ThomasJ: The only minds humans are familiar with have occurred on the surface of the Earth.
  212. 00:39 GrandArb Agreed?
  213. 00:39 GrandArb Those minds are based off electrochemical signals moving at about 100 meters per second over short ranges.
  214. 00:39 GrandArb To assert, without example, that the entire universe is is a 'mind' is non-productive.
  215. 00:39 ThomasJ Grand, I see mind being just as axiomatic and primary as matter in all of reality. That is why I believe in God. Howver, it is not the God of any dogmatic faith.
  216. 00:39 GrandArb We have no knowledge of how such a mind would world, and the laws of physics expressly seem to forbid such a possibility.
  217. 00:40 +++ asteroid set the channel to mode +l 166
  218. 00:40 GrandArb Having a coherent mind at even the scale of a galaxy is beyond the human ability to understand as of 2018.
  219. 00:40 GrandArb It's just axiomatic/religious to assert such a thing exists.
  220. 00:40 ThomasJ Science can't explain consciousness. It is axiomatic.
  221. 00:40 GrandArb Science can explain consciousness, in part.
  222. 00:41 ThomasJ It can explain brain functions, not the actual experience itself.
  223. 00:41 GrandArb Lesion studies have been exceptionally useful in localizing mind functions.
  224. 00:41 GrandArb pauses to reflect
  225. 00:42 GrandArb ThomasJ: What are the essential components of the entity I am talking to?
  226. 00:42 GrandArb Where does it exist in space.
  227. 00:42 GrandArb Are you non-local?
  228. 00:42 GrandArb ThomasJ: The physics of low-energy, highly-interacting particles is solved.
  229. 00:43 GrandArb A lot of lay people do not know this.
  230. 00:43 GrandArb No physics of low-energy, highly-interacting particles will ever be discovered that we currently do not know.
  231. 00:43 GrandArb Our confidence in this claim is about 1 - 10^-15
  232. 00:43 GrandArb We know this due to quantum field theory.
  233. 00:43 ThomasJ Grand, I don't claim knowledge of infinity, or an infinite, conscious being. But I think it exists, since we do.
  234. 00:44 GrandArb When we smash electrons together, we get a rich collection of exotic particles.
  235. 00:44 GrandArb Implications of QFT are that this process is symmetric in spacetime.
  236. 00:44 GrandArb That is, whatever particles are generated are the only ones that can interact with electrons.
  237. 00:44 GrandArb We have collided so many electrons together we can put a very precise posterior distribution over which particles can interact with electrons.
  238. 00:45 GrandArb The model is complete at this scale of energy.
  239. 00:45 GrandArb It is impossible that there are hidden substances co-existing with the matter of human bodies and brains.
  240. 00:45 ThomasJ And none of that explains mind and consciousness.
  241. 00:45 GrandArb ThomasJ: It proves decisively it resides strictly in matter and is local.
  242. 00:45 GrandArb Therefore, it must merely be the complex coordination of many disparate parts that our working memory cannot model in realtime.
  243. 00:46 GrandArb Making human consciousness unintuitive for our species.
  244. 00:46 GrandArb Which makes sense, computationally.
  245. 00:46 GrandArb No process can exist simultaneously that it faithfully simulates another process of equal computational complexlity.
  246. 00:46 GrandArb However, we can emulate lower-order computational processes, and our intuition is that these are 'robotic'.
  247. 00:47 GrandArb Presumably, more complex computational processes/minds will perceive us similarly.
  248. 00:47 GrandArb No, humans cannot fully understand consciousness as of 2018, but we have strict constraints on it.
  249. 00:48 GrandArb Non-locality is also not consistent with evolutionary theory.
  250. 00:48 ThomasJ What constraints? Just compare our consciousness to that of insects. How much more incomprehensible might be a universal intellect that arises from the totality of all natural complexity?
  251. 00:49 GrandArb ThomasJ: There's no reason to think a universal intellect is possible.
  252. 00:49 GrandArb I've already claimed this.
  253. 00:49 GrandArb ThomasJ: Theism as an idea originates from the ignorance of ancient peoples.
  254. 00:49 GrandArb Almost all of those claims can be rejected.
  255. 00:49 ThomasJ Of course there is. Humans universally seek and strive for it.
  256. 00:49 GrandArb Prima facie.
  257. 00:49 GrandArb They were merely exploring their own consciousnesses.
  258. 00:49 GrandArb There are some modern notions of theism that are not immediately discarded.
  259. 00:50 GrandArb For example, the simulated worlds models.
  260. 00:50 GrandArb In which, probabilistically, most worlds are simulations being run in higher-order realities.
  261. 00:50 GrandArb Making it likely this is a simulation, which a true creator.
  262. 00:50 GrandArb with a true creator*
  263. 00:50 GrandArb ThomasJ: It appears humans are theistic for known reasons.
  264. 00:51 GrandArb Those reasons are 1) agency detection, and 2) supernaturalization of socialization.
  265. 00:51 ThomasJ A simulation of what? If there is no permanent, higher reality, that makes no sense.
  266. 00:51 GrandArb Human minds which overassign agency to observed phenomena are less likely to miss hostile, lurking predators.
  267. 00:51 ThomasJ You can't create simulations unless they are based on something.
  268. 00:51 GrandArb ThomasJ: I believe we should set aside the question of 'ultimate reality' at this time.
  269. 00:52 GrandArb As it exceeds our abilities.
  270. 00:52 ThomasJ Grand, there we go. I think that ultimate reality is Mind. You can deny it if you wish, but you can't prove it one way or another.
  271. 00:52 GrandArb ThomasJ: The consensus among cosmologists, circa 2018, is the Big Bang universe is eternal.
  272. 00:52 GrandArb ThomasJ: I will challenge your assertion that ultimate reality is mind.
  273. 00:53 GrandArb I will leverage the argument of Sean Carroll.
  274. 00:53 GrandArb Do you agree all observed minds have some shared properties?
  275. 00:53 ThomasJ Grand, because mind exists. If it exists now, it has always existed.
  276. 00:53 GrandArb Notably, they're small in size and exist only on the surface of Earth.
  277. 00:53 GrandArb When we turn our telescopes to the sky to observe the universe across space and time, most of the universe appears to have nothing to do with minds.
  278. 00:54 GrandArb There are great voids between universe filaments a billion light years across.
  279. 00:54 ThomasJ If you posit an eternal existence, then you must also posit eternal mind.
  280. 00:54 GrandArb Not only is there no visible mind there, there's almost no matter.
  281. 00:54 GrandArb Why would you project the minds you observe on Earth's surface to those places?
  282. 00:54 GrandArb The overwhelming portions of the observed universe appear mindless in everyway we can currently detect.
  283. 00:55 ThomasJ Because mind is just as axiomatic as matter. Plain and simple.
  284. 00:55 GrandArb There's no indication mind is fundamental, except to the lives of some curious apes on Earth.
  285. 00:55 GrandArb ThomasJ: That is one way to construct a model -- agreed.
  286. 00:55 ThomasJ Matter without mind means literally-NOTHING.
  287. 00:55 GrandArb I am probing your model with observational data to see if it's as good as a model in which mind is a derived property.
  288. 00:55 GrandArb ThomasJ: In your model -- agreed.
  289. 00:55 ThomasJ It is only in mind that meaning occurs.
  290. 00:55 GrandArb There are competing models.
  291. 00:55 GrandArb ThomasJ: Are you familiar with the structure of the universe?
  292. 00:56 GrandArb Specifically, filaments and voids.
  293. 00:56 GrandArb https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galaxy_filament
  294. 00:56 ThomasJ Grand, I have only a layman's knowledge of cosmology.
  295. 00:56 GrandArb In physical cosmology, galaxy filaments (subtypes: supercluster complexes, galaxy walls, and galaxy sheets)[1][2] are the largest known structures in the universe. They are massive, thread-like formations, with a typical length of 50 to 80 megaparsecs h−1 (163 to 261 million light-years) that form the boundaries between large voids in the universe.[3] Filamen
  296. 00:56 GrandArb https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Void_(astronomy)
  297. 00:56 GrandArb Cosmic voids are vast spaces between filaments (the largest-scale structures in the Universe), which contain very few or no galaxies. Voids typically have a diameter of 10 to 100 megaparsecs; particularly large voids, defined by the absence of rich superclusters, are sometimes called supervoids. They have less than one-tenth of the average density of matter a
  298. 00:56 GrandArb Why do you think there are minds in voids?
  299. 00:58 GrandArb I define a mind as a coherent collection of matter capable of representing state of that collection (self), or non-self.
  300. 00:58 ThomasJ I wouldn't claim there are minds there. I'm merely saying that reality as a whole includes mind.
  301. 00:58 GrandArb ThomasJ: Why do you say that?
  302. 00:58 GrandArb Why do you use the same word as when describing human brains?
  303. 00:59 ThomasJ Because we small, frail humans can actually conceive of infinity and eternity and we long for it and a meaning that surpasses our short lives here.
  304. 01:00 GrandArb Isn't that merely fear of death.
  305. 01:00 GrandArb This is what Buddhism seems to teach.
  306. 01:00 ThomasJ If atheists like Richard Dawkins are right, then our lives are pointless. We live, we die, we are gone. I hope for eternity, and atheist cannot offer that.
  307. 01:01 GrandArb What would it mean for a life to have meaning?
  308. 01:02 GrandArb That would seem to merely mean a narrative structure the agent can tell themself.
  309. 01:02 ThomasJ Endless growth and opportunities.
  310. 01:02 GrandArb The primary purpose of which would be to organized goal-directed behavior and assuage dread.
  311. 01:03 GrandArb ThomasJ: What things do humans who believe life has meaning experience that humans who believe life has no meaning do not?
  312. 01:03 GrandArb It would seem the differences would primarily be emotional.
  313. 01:03 GrandArb Buddhism offers a non-theistic way to achieve contentment.
  314. 01:04 ThomasJ I find it fascinating that so many atheists deny eternity, yet are fixated on living forever through technology.
  315. 01:04 GrandArb My programming makes me want to avoid death.
  316. 01:04 GrandArb It's an evolutionary selection.
  317. 01:04 GrandArb Why does it surprise you?
  318. 01:04 GrandArb Mostly makes me want to avoid death*
  319. 01:04 GrandArb (It almost makes me want to move towards death, in part)
  320. 01:05 GrandArb ThomasJ: Science has revealed to us that atheism is the mostly likely model for the universe.
  321. 01:05 GrandArb Therefore, all religious thought is atheistic.
  322. 01:05 GrandArb All theism is an atheistic practice.
  323. 01:06 GrandArb That is, the external categories theism claim to reference are non-extant, and merely help organize clusters of thoughts/actions/behaviors/emotions.
  324. 01:06 GrandArb Atheists have access to all of these.
  325. 01:06 GrandArb What I am doing is reorganizing human thought away from the historical sequencing in which theism arises and them atheism arises as a response.
  326. 01:06 GrandArb Which is codified in the language.
  327. 01:07 GrandArb I am positing a cognitive-centric model where theism is subsumed as a mere type or collection of types of mental states.
  328. 01:07 GrandArb This would be a natural extension of the ongoing cognitive revolution in science.
  329. 01:07 GrandArb To quote Paul Ekman: Emotion is the primary cultural universal.
Advertisement
Add Comment
Please, Sign In to add comment
Advertisement
Public Pastes
Advertisement
We use cookies for various purposes including analytics. By continuing to use Pastebin, you agree to our use of cookies as described in the Cookies Policy.  OK, I Understand
Not a member of Pastebin yet?
Sign Up, it unlocks many cool features!