Mafia Discussion

Banned Person - Today at 10:11 AM - @gamemasters is it still okay to note something that wasn't noted in the original but still was intended? (so basically, I haven't noted that the doc cannot self-protect and it'd remain like that with the difference of me noting it)
Max - Today at 10:12 AM - i mean, I guess so
Thats clarification
danny - Today at 10:12 AM - You can note that, but please try to do this before your game is submitted and subsequently chosen.
You should be making clarifications before the game is submitted, not after.
Max - Today at 10:12 AM - Im not a GM, but it would seem logical for clarification to be a thing still
But yeah, doing it beforehand is better
danny - Today at 10:12 AM - The thing is, there are still doctors that can self-protect.
So this isn't much of a clarification as it is changing the role's ability.
Which is originally why games should not be changing after they're submitted.
Max - Today at 10:13 AM - I mean, I usually have self-protecting doctors
Banned Person - Today at 10:13 AM - oh sorry for that this is the first game I submitted somewhere which hadn't been posted in the GCT
danny - Today at 10:13 AM - It has nothing to do with being your first game submitted, that's not really a valid excuse to be fair.
Banned Person - Today at 10:13 AM - and for some reason I forgot it
it's not my first submitted game
this is a game which wasn't in the GCT
Max - Today at 10:14 AM - Shadowstar, you didnt send this game to me either. Can we like, do that again next time.
We usually help each other to remember this shit(edited)
Banned Person - Today at 10:14 AM - true
danny - Today at 10:14 AM - Like, just don't forget to add in crucial details at all.
Preventing the doctor from being able to self-protect is a pretty crucial detail in and of itself.
Banned Person - Today at 10:15 AM - bc it basically determines the doc's early game choices
I suppose that's why
danny - Today at 10:15 AM - In a normal scenario I would not let you change this after you have already essentially won the polls.
Max - Today at 10:15 AM - well, it also determines how strong they are
Cebot - Today at 10:15 AM - in M9 it happened that I first wrote up something different from what I intended it to be later
then I had to deal with it
Banned Person - Today at 10:15 AM - well someone would ask if the doc can self-protect in private or public anyway
Max - Today at 10:15 AM - A non-self healing doc is a rather weak role
A self healing one is overpowered as hell because they can essentially be a nightrider
So it really makes a lot of difference
danny - Today at 10:16 AM - We're going to start enforcing host rules that limit what you can say in certain situations to be honest with you.
Self-protecting doctors have always been clarified beforehand.
Banned Person - Today at 10:16 AM - singular self-protection is fine but permanent is not really the best thing
danny - Today at 10:16 AM - Ones that don't say something along the lines of "can't self protect" or whatever are usually assumed to be able to self-protect.
So if a game is posted where a clarification for the doctor not being able to self protect is not present, the host will not be able to come up with a clarification mid-game.
Max - Today at 10:17 AM - Can shadow do it now though?
it will severely break the game if not
danny - Today at 10:17 AM - He can do it now, but this is the only time I'll let it slide.
Max - Today at 10:17 AM - Sure
Banned Person - Today at 10:18 AM - I think we should post this happening in the mafia discussion thread
just so that others see it too
Max - Today at 10:18 AM - Also, does the thing I usually do serve as enough clarification danny?
usually I add this spoiler with information like this
Banned Person - Today at 10:18 AM - that you can only change games before the polls start
danny - Today at 10:18 AM - If you're making changes/clarifications like this mid-game, it completely goes against the GM reviews that got your game to the winning spot anyway.
It doesn't matter how you add clarifications.
Max - Today at 10:18 AM - Ah, sure
Like, mine arent in the role descriptions usually
danny - Today at 10:18 AM - If none are present, things can be assumed as part of their base counterpart.
Base doctor roles can always self-protect.
Base vigilante roles never lose their ability on an innocent kill.
Base serial killers do not have night kill immunity usually, but in that area it's a basket case.
Cebot - Today at 10:20 AM base serial killer should have night immunity
Banned Person - Today at 10:20 AM that's a recommended balance tweak not a base ability I think
danny - Today at 10:20 AM Base serial killer doesn't have night kill immunity, but the base arsonist does I believe.
Cebot - Today at 10:21 AM referring to ToS?
Banned Person - Today at 10:21 AM - in ToS SK has immunity
danny - Today at 10:21 AM - Referring to EpicMafia and literally 90% of sanctioned and official Mafia/Werewolf product/games.
Different gameplay environments lead to different strategies, which is why the Serial Killer does not have nightkill immunity.
The only reason why people treat it as standardized around here is because we all know each others' tactics.
And general behaviors.
Max - Today at 10:22 AM - The serial killer and arsonist are both not nightkill immune by default AFAIK
danny - Today at 10:22 AM - I think the arsonist is a conflicted sort of deal.
But again, third party bases are a basket case.
Banned Person - Today at 10:22 AM - the SK's immunity is p. much crucial since if the SK looks way too innocent, the mafia will still kill them and R.I.P.
Max - Today at 10:22 AM - they just usually get made nightkill immune because its more fair that way
Banned Person - Today at 10:23 AM - basically looking innocent should only be an award
Max - Today at 10:23 AM - Mafia scum 3rd parties are almost guaranteed to lose
danny - Today at 10:23 AM - There is no way to "look way too innocent" to the Mafia.
Max - Today at 10:23 AM - There is kinda, theyll suspect you are a blue
danny - Today at 10:23 AM - Not really?
Banned Person - Today at 10:23 AM - well if they suspect you're a blue yeah
Cebot - Today at 10:23 AM - there's also a way of "being a threat to them" in general
and either way, the odds to make it to the last players alive are really small
danny - Today at 10:23 AM - That's basically saying that if a townie was acting innocent, the Mafia can sum it up that they're blue.
Cebot - Today at 10:24 AM - at some point it becomes more and more likely for you to get targeted
Banned Person - Today at 10:24 AM - well depends on their behavior
danny - Today at 10:24 AM - I'd like to throw out a reminder that the third party is not a necessary inclusion in games, and they do not need to be extremely powerful like people make them.
Cebot - Today at 10:24 AM - they do, otherwise the role is really really unthankful
Banned Person - Today at 10:24 AM - some balance tweaks don't hurt though
danny - Today at 10:24 AM - But is it really balance if you make it one of the most powerful roles in the game?
Banned Person - Today at 10:25 AM - it's a single-man arsenal
so ofc it should be the strongest role
not the strongest faction
just the strongest role
danny - Today at 10:25 AM - And why is that?
Because it's a single person, they deserve much more than the other teams?
Banned Person - Today at 10:25 AM - they are 1v17
danny - Today at 10:25 AM - It takes skill to play as a third party that is lone wolf.
You can't just be handed all the power on a silver platter.
it takes way more than that if you wanna have a chance to win
Cebot - Today at 10:26 AM - it takes way more than that if you wanna have a chance to win
Banned Person - Today at 10:26 AM - but if there is no immunity it also involves luck A LOT
danny - Today at 10:26 AM - It doesn't require a whole lot of luck if you're a charismatic person.
Max - Today at 10:26 AM - Personally, i think the ideal mafia game should only have a TP if it works with the rest of the rolelist. I have seen people adding them to games where they do not work.
danny - Today at 10:26 AM - But this is where this discussion branches off in two directions.
First of all, the third party system should be completely abolished in this community, because we are not a large Mafia community, and we can see through almost any trick.
This is why the third party is annihilated so quickly.
If you were to venture into a place that is fairly ambiguous and large, like EpicMafia, you can get away with playing a base Serial Killer role without looking suspicious.
Banned Person - Today at 10:27 AM - wouldn't the Mafia kill you tho?
danny - Today at 10:27 AM - One of the key components of survival as a third party is to remain quiet, but active.
Do you think they would?
Max - Today at 10:28 AM - I disagree, I think we should still have 3rd parties but we should adapt them to our standards.
danny - Today at 10:28 AM - If you are acting no different from any other townie in the game, the Mafia has no incentive to kill you.
Banned Person - Today at 10:28 AM - well they aren't mandatory
they are neat
yeah so they'll know that and look for the players who "stay in the middle line" and suspect them to be TP
Max - Today at 10:28 AM - Like, the type of third parties with either a lot of power or a different goal than total extinction of the town are rather fair IMO
think survivor and jester on the last one
danny - Today at 10:28 AM - So suppose in a 20-player game, you have a Serial Killer, and a ton of townies.
Max - Today at 10:29 AM - which doesnt happen here, but go on
danny - Today at 10:29 AM - People are going to act differently, some people will try to lead alliances, some people will act neutral.
If you are the Serial Killer and the Mafia targets you specifically, that is purely luck-based.
You do not require a shield against this, it's just bad luck, and you move on to the next game.
Banned Person - Today at 10:29 AM - well I agree that it's possible to win without immunity
Cebot - Today at 10:30 AM - well, theoretically
danny - Today at 10:30 AM - When you get to the point where the Mafia is supposedly killed off by the Town and your endeavours, you are at a significant advantage.
Cebot - Today at 10:30 AM - but in practice you can also go playing lottery
Banned Person - Today at 10:30 AM - getting TP is like 1:18 and winning TP is also quite a hard thing
danny - Today at 10:30 AM - This is where the whole idea loops back around that playing third party in this community is impossible.
Because it really is.
Max - Today at 10:30 AM - It really isnt
Banned Person - Today at 10:30 AM - M41 is a good example
danny - Today at 10:30 AM - Even if you jack a third party up on steroids and send them off, people are going to suspect you nonetheless.
Banned Person - Today at 10:30 AM - and M30
Max - Today at 10:31 AM - if mosaic hadn't revealed ZM in m36 he would have probably won
danny - Today at 10:31 AM - But here's the thing, how did Mosaic reveal ZM?
There is a significant flaw here.
Max - Today at 10:31 AM - Mosaic and the rest of the mafia found out the TP's identity
and mosaic ragequitted by claiming mafia and revealing the TP
Banned Person - Today at 10:31 AM - in M30 nightkill immunity was crucial for Sanct's well-deserved victory
danny - Today at 10:31 AM - But was it well-deserved?
When you blanket someone from nightkills, especially when they can nightkill, it makes them extremely potent.
Cebot - Today at 10:32 AM - well it was a joint win
something that others would have declared a stalemate
danny - Today at 10:32 AM - Why don't we blanket the Mafia team members with nightkill immunity as well?
Max - Today at 10:32 AM - Another case of a near TP victory was my M39
megar fucking owned it
Banned Person - Today at 10:32 AM - bc the mafia consists of more members
danny - Today at 10:32 AM - But they also only get one kill?
More members does not up your chances of winning.
Max - Today at 10:32 AM - not always
danny - Today at 10:33 AM - Look at all of the town wins because the Mafia was wiped out completely.
Max - Today at 10:33 AM - It does dan
it really does
danny - Today at 10:33 AM - It really doesn't.
Max - Today at 10:33 AM - The town has to lynch/kill off all of the mafia members
And only 1 tp
danny - Today at 10:33 AM - It paints you as a bigger target.
Banned Person - Today at 10:33 AM - well M28 and M38 were indeed bc the SK just wiped out the mafia
danny - Today at 10:33 AM - Nightkill immunity on the third party is literally just idiot-proofing the role.
Banned Person - Today at 10:33 AM - M38 wasn't even a victory bc of meta evidence
Max - Today at 10:33 AM - I am a great fan of TP's, but they definately arent mandatory.
Banned Person - Today at 10:33 AM - it was Mosaic murdering the Mafia
danny - Today at 10:33 AM - Which is exactly the issue with people idiot-proofing the Vigilante.
Maybe if you aren't winning as a third party, you aren't good at the game?
Max - Today at 10:34 AM - My recent game with the sane and insane bodyguards didnt have a TP
because it didnt work
danny - Today at 10:34 AM - I'm noticing a lot of cushioning mechanics being put in place for individuals.
Like giving all 4 Mafia members a special ability.
Putting 5-6 blue roles in the town.
Giving a serial killer 3 separate abilities to utilize?
Max - Today at 10:34 AM - Alright danny, here I think you have a different viewpoint than shadowstar and I
I like regular vanilla-esque games with goons and townies a lot, dont get me wrong
danny - Today at 10:35 AM - I have a different viewpoint because I have actually played Mafia in a much different environment.
Banned Person - Today at 10:35 AM - the btb game for example is cool
danny - Today at 10:35 AM - What we play here on this forum is not true Mafia whatsoever.
It's really a joke.
Max - Today at 10:35 AM - I know
I read epicmafia's shit
And we are doing a lot of things different
danny - Today at 10:36 AM - I have been against these powerhouse roles and factions because they do not make Mafia fun.
They make it gimmicky.
Max - Today at 10:36 AM - Which can also be fun
danny - Today at 10:36 AM - Not in the slightest.
Banned Person - Today at 10:36 AM - gimmicks can be fun if they are not overkill
danny - Today at 10:36 AM - It may be fun for people who enjoy the thrill of using powers all the time, but this is where we have developed significant problems.
Look at the people that complain about receiving the Townie role?
Banned Person - Today at 10:36 AM - if it's a clusterfuck of blues then yeah that is a problem
Max - Today at 10:36 AM - I am a great fan of having varied mafia games to play.
Like, after a gimmicky game I usually really want something simple
Or a game with a concept like mystery or faction
danny - Today at 10:36 AM - People have become very power hungry in this community.
Max - Today at 10:37 AM - I really don't like how this community only has 1 type of game most of the time
But I do like that type of game
Id rather have it a little more varied though
Banned Person - Today at 10:38 AM - I dislike the lack of faction, mystery and PYP too
Max - Today at 10:38 AM - Well, I dont really
I like it if its there
But my main complaint is how we always have these role madness games
danny - Today at 10:38 AM - When did it become "Pick Your Poison"?
It's... pseudo-mystery.
Max - Today at 10:38 AM - its kinda semi-mystery
Banned Person - Today at 10:39 AM - semi-mystery is like M15 and M38 and pseudo-mystery is like M10A right?
danny - Today at 10:39 AM - No, I mean, it's literally called pseudo-mystery.
Max - Today at 10:39 AM - Shadowstar and I refer to that type of semi-mystery as PYP
danny - Today at 10:39 AM - Uh, there is no definition between "semi-mystery" and "pseudo-mystery".
Max - Today at 10:39 AM - And M38 and stuff as semi-mystery
danny - Today at 10:39 AM - It's all just pseudo-mystery.
Max - Today at 10:39 AM - I am aware
danny - Today at 10:39 AM - Slapping other words onto it doesn't define it any differently than others.
Max - Today at 10:39 AM - But shadowstar and I use the term pick your poison to describe the type of pseudo mystery used in M10a
Banned Person - Today at 10:40 AM - and semi-mystery as M'5 and M38
Max - Today at 10:40 AM - And just semi-mystery or pseudo mystery for the m38 thing
Banned Person - Today at 10:40 AM - the two game types are significantly different from each other
danny - Today at 10:40 AM - That's literally what Pick Your Poison was.
It was not formatted in the same way, but it was the same concept as all the others.
And that is in and of itself defined as pseudo-mystery.
Banned Person - Today at 10:41 AM - M38: choose A or B
M10A: pick a power
Max - Today at 10:41 AM - Danny, how would you want the games to be?
danny - Today at 10:41 AM - @Banned Person I literally just said this.
It was not formatted in the same way, but it was the same concept as all the others.
Max - Today at 10:41 AM - You cannot juist force this community to only have simple mafiascum-esque games
Banned Person - Today at 10:41 AM - ah sry
well the GMs never said that
Max - Today at 10:42 AM - Like, certain people really dislike that
danny - Today at 10:42 AM - @Max Was I forcing them to?
Cebot - Today at 10:42 AM - btw it all goes even worse than what we do
Max - Today at 10:42 AM - No, danny you arent forcing them
Cebot - Today at 10:42 AM - I know a place where half of the games are mystery or involve only power roles
Max - Today at 10:42 AM - I am just trying to see your point of view
Like, I am genuinely interested
danny - Today at 10:42 AM - My point of view is that people need to stop jacking up their games with power roles constantly.
Banned Person - Today at 10:42 AM - I mean having 6 blues can be overkill indeed
danny - Today at 10:42 AM - Gimmicks are fine, but I have seen plenty of roles that just don't really fit an aspect of a game.
That or roles that compliment each other so well that they can completely break a game's balance.
Max - Today at 10:43 AM - Name an example?
Banned Person - Today at 10:43 AM - here is one thing I'm wondering about: how come that 50% of the shipcord player smbx members yet the playstyle there is very different
danny - Today at 10:43 AM - Literally any scapegoat role that can be used to form a blue alliance.
Max - Today at 10:43 AM - Agreed
Banned Person - Today at 10:43 AM - so nightrider, doublevoter and shit like that
Max - Today at 10:43 AM - I dont have scapegoat blues at all
I used to
But not anymore
Banned Person - Today at 10:44 AM - I never have those types of roles either
Max - Today at 10:44 AM - my M39 game was hell
It had way too much damn specials
And only like, 5 townies
Banned Person - Today at 10:44 AM - there were more specials than vanillas
Max - Today at 10:44 AM
But I changed since then
Banned Person - Today at 10:44 AM - which is quite an issue
danny - Today at 10:45 AM - I want to give a reminder that GMs review submitted games based on how they are balanced and not on personal preference and obscure not-established rules.
Here's an example of a messy game.
https://www.supermariobrosx.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=288975#p288975
While the roles are fairly balanced for the most part, you can easily tell how the gameplay is going to turn south.
Banned Person - Today at 10:46 AM - I can see the issue of having lots of town specials
but what is the problem with not having goons? (just curious)
aka ordinary mafiosi
well having 2 of them is fine
but having only 1 is like wot
having 1 ordinary mafioso is just "oh hey let's bus"
Cebot - Today at 10:47 AM - @danny we've been playing for several years with non-vanilla mafias, 4 or 5 blues, blue alliances, and night-immune TPs, and it has gone quite well. The part of "try to hunt scum and find them via leads and suspicions" doesn't go short at all. Any stupid vanilla game consists of only scumhunting and takes away a significant amount of excitement.
Banned Person - Today at 10:48 AM
simple games can be fun
tho
but they can become quite repetitive after a while
Cebot - Today at 10:48 AM
one M40 every once in a while is acceptable
but if it becomes everyday experience it really gets boring
just like at mafiascum, you play a basic 2 mafia vs. 7 townies game as a beginner, but then you never do that again and go to the advanced themed games
and 30 - 40% is always a fine percentage of town blues(edited)
danny - Today at 10:56 AM
Okay, where did I say that people need to make "stupid vanilla games", why are they considered "vanilla", and why are they stupid?
This just proves my exact point in saying people playing here have become way too power hungry.
Banned Person - Today at 10:58 AM
what would be an effective way to encourage people liking townie roles tho?
like it's possible
but in what way
being townie isn't useless
danny - Today at 10:58 AM
Limit how many power roles you're sticking into a game?
You don't need a lot of power roles or complex power roles to make a game fun.
This has been proven time and time again.
But people like to think that complex and abundant power roles = fun game.
Banned Person - Today at 10:59 AM
M30 seems like a fun game even tho the mafia was way too lucky
but otherwise that game looked kinda decent
also just curious: do masons count as power roles?
danny - Today at 11:00 AM
Masons give the town a significant power advantage because they have the ability to know other Masons.
I would count them as a power role in most circumstances because they derive from the base townie.
Banned Person - Today at 11:00 AM
ah okay
danny - Today at 11:00 AM
You have to consider what they will do for your game and why they'd be there.
In a game with a lesser amount of blue roles, Masons work perfectly.
But when you take into consideration that a game has an abundance of blue roles, or at least roles that make blue roles reaccuring, like the Nurse, then Masons are not ideal.
Banned Person - Today at 11:01 AM
like in M40 Masons might have actually been a better idea than the Vigilante now that I think of it
oh wait you jsut said that they dun work
nvm

Cebot - Today at 10:47 AM - @danny we've been playing for several years with non-vanilla mafias, 4 or 5 blues, blue alliances, and night-immune TPs, and it has gone quite well. The part of "try to hunt scum and find them via leads and suspicions" doesn't go short at all. Any stupid vanilla game consists of only scumhunting and takes away a significant amount of excitement.
Banned Person - Today at 10:48 AM - simple games can be fun
tho
but they can become quite repetitive after a while
Cebot - Today at 10:48 AM - one M40 every once in a while is acceptable
but if it becomes everyday experience it really gets boring
just like at mafiascum, you play a basic 2 mafia vs. 7 townies game as a beginner, but then you never do that again and go to the advanced themed games
and 30 - 40% is always a fine percentage of town blues
danny - Today at 10:56 AM - Okay, where did I say that people need to make "stupid vanilla games", why are they considered "vanilla", and why are they stupid?
This just proves my exact point in saying people playing here have become way too power hungry.
Banned Person - Today at 10:58 AM - what would be an effective way to encourage people liking townie roles tho?
like it's possible
but in what way
being townie isn't useless
danny - Today at 10:58 AM - Limit how many power roles you're sticking into a game?
You don't need a lot of power roles or complex power roles to make a game fun.
This has been proven time and time again.
But people like to think that complex and abundant power roles = fun game.
Banned Person - Today at 10:59 AM - M30 seems like a fun game even tho the mafia was way too lucky
but otherwise that game looked kinda decent
also just curious: do masons count as power roles?
danny - Today at 11:00 AM - Masons give the town a significant power advantage because they have the ability to know other Masons.
I would count them as a power role in most circumstances because they derive from the base townie.
Banned Person - Today at 11:00 AM - ah okay
danny - Today at 11:00 AM - You have to consider what they will do for your game and why they'd be there.
In a game with a lesser amount of blue roles, Masons work perfectly.
But when you take into consideration that a game has an abundance of blue roles, or at least roles that make blue roles reaccuring, like the Nurse, then Masons are not ideal.
Banned Person - Today at 11:01 AM - like in M40 Masons might have actually been a better idea than the Vigilante now that I think of it
oh wait you jsut said that they dun work
nvm
in nurse-deputy games
danny - Today at 11:02 AM - Masons can work in a game with a graduate role.
But it's circumstancial.
If your game is running 4 or 5 blue roles, and a graduate role, you definitely do not want a Mason of any sort.
It gives the town a big advantage.
It also completely removes the aspect of intrigue, questioning, and risk.
Banned Person - Today at 11:03 AM - but in a game with 3 blues masons work perfectly I guess
danny - Today at 11:03 AM - Which is was a lot of these power roles end up doing anyway, especially in cases where people form an alliance so quickly.
It depends on the blues.
Sheriff, Vigi, and Doctor can work with Masons.
Given that there are no graduates.
If there is a graduate role, you may want to reconsider.
Banned Person - Today at 11:04 AM - Lookout, Dissector/Mortician and Jailkeeper?
what about one of those replacing one of the conventional blues
danny - Today at 11:04 AM - If you had a Lookout, a Vigi, a Doctor, and a Nurse, Masons could work out.
But I'd say only in an 18 or 20 player game.
Banned Person - Today at 11:05 AM - Masons in small games are very strong afaik
danny - Today at 11:05 AM - And the Mafia should have at least 2 power roles, like a Godfather and a Thug.
Third party doesn't make a difference in this regard.
Banned Person - Today at 11:05 AM -that looks relatively balanced
I mean in a small game a 4 member mafia with only 1 power role is understandable
and fair
I personally expected your game to win
danny - Today at 11:07 AM - It could go without a power role at all, but the power role is included to counterbalance the other killing roles and the Seer.
Also, something to keep in mind, Masons usually flip purple.
Banned Person - Today at 11:08 AM - so a unique color
danny - Today at 11:08 AM - Some cases they will flip green, but that color flip makes all the difference.
Banned Person - Today at 11:08 AM - what about red masons?
danny - Today at 11:08 AM - Especially considering there is a green role.
Red Masons are not a good idea generally.
That's what the Miller is for really.
Masons have also flipped Third Party colors as well, but that's a little less used.
Banned Person - Today at 11:09 AM - TP colors for Masons is not a bad idea
but...
if someone is inspected by the sheriff
namely the TP
it's still quite easy for the masons to survive
but I personally like the green color the most
especially if there is a dissector/mortician
by that I mean the investigative one
danny - Today at 11:11 AM - See, I'm very conservative when it comes to Mafia and its core mechanics.
I know what makes the game run smoothly, I know when there are flaws in a game based on its composition.
My job is to not dictate that part though, that's all seen as personal opinion.
I'm here just to ensure games are balanced enough to be accepted.
Can't change the grassroots of a game just because you don't like a part of it.
Banned Person - Today at 11:12 AM - true
danny - Today at 11:12 AM - I think that's something that needs to be realized.
Just because I approve a game does not mean I'm entirely accepting of it.
Gimmicks are cool, but they're hard to determine whether or not they'd work unless they were actually played through.
Here's an example.
https://www.supermariobrosx.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=245752#p245752
Banned Person - Today at 11:13 AM - well that was an experiment
so I'm not blaming you for that game failing
danny - Today at 11:14 AM - It didn't fail so much as it wasn't really balanced well.
That sort of game was nearly impossible to balance based on its gimmick, and it's a lesson to be learned from it.
Do you remember the game with the Corruptor third party?
Banned Person - Today at 11:14 AM - huh was it before M28?
since I dun know games that well before that one
danny - Today at 11:15 AM - It wasn't hosted here I don't think.
I hosted it on Gohan's Mafia forum.
Banned Person - Today at 11:15 AM - oh
well then I don't
danny - Today at 11:32 AM - Revision 2 is up.