[7:35 PM] Benedicto: fuck
[7:35 PM] Benedicto: so tilted
[7:35 PM] Benedicto: fuck
[7:35 PM] MadeofTime: ?
[7:35 PM] Benedicto: Carni tilt
[7:36 PM] Benedicto: it's like Carni they're suddenly holding all the cards
 like whatever I can do, you can do better
pestilence? Nah, we can give stupidity passively
block? Nah, we've got spirit chains and we just need to give you paresis
Vorpal? Nah, we've got implant and because we only need to give physical affs, we don't need to worry about using it until after you've blown fitness
Oh, and we can slow down your eating speeds
Oh, and we can both take more damage and dish out more damage than you (and we're only fractionally slower doing it)
Oh, and good luck trying to lock us without impatience or any kind of balance knock because we're just going to fitness out of your softlock and there's not a damn thing you can do about it - oh and also soul purge to burn another physical aff if we feel like it and get faster for doing it as well(edited)
[7:37 PM] Benedicto: all of them are running that same route now
[7:37 PM] Benedicto: growl passively to just constantly soak focus
[7:37 PM] Benedicto: soul disease to get ahead of curing
[7:37 PM] Benedicto: get the lock
[7:37 PM] Benedicto: and implant anorexia
[7:37 PM] Benedicto: I'll fitness to get out
[7:38 PM] Benedicto: they only need one hit to reseal using implant and growl will seal the deal
[7:38 PM] Benedicto: https://ada-young.appspot.com/pastebin/bOlT3RpZ
[7:39 PM] Benedicto: https://ada-young.appspot.com/pastebin/V_EaeBt1
[7:48 PM] Benedicto: I realise that a lot of how that comes across is salt
[7:48 PM] Benedicto: and in part it is
[7:48 PM] Benedicto: but it's mostly because it's pretty much an unbeatable route
[8:05 PM] MadeofTime: hmm
[8:05 PM] MadeofTime: real talk then
[8:05 PM] MadeofTime: what do you think would balance them? if you could make 1-3 changes
[8:05 PM] MadeofTime: without completely destroying them
[8:06 PM] Benedicto: switch stupidity for another focus aff that doesn't bury anorexia
[8:06 PM] Benedicto: so you give people the choice of burning focus(edited)
[8:07 PM] Benedicto: and Carni, like any other class going for a lock, have to give up a round giving a focus aff to bury anorexia
[8:07 PM] Benedicto: that's the key one I guess
[8:08 PM] Benedicto: it's like with Temp, we're marginally faster at affs (only by .07 of a second)
[8:08 PM] Benedicto: but we have to lose a round to giving either mental_disrupt or stupidity before going into softlock with vorpal or w/e
[8:08 PM] Benedicto: because otherwise focus is used to blow the lot
[8:08 PM] MadeofTime: so you think changing growl from stupidity to a different focus aff would fix them? you don't think it would take too much away from them?
[8:09 PM] Benedicto: no, because it would put them on equal footing with Templar
[8:09 PM] Benedicto: if you consider that implant is essentially vorpal
[8:09 PM] Benedicto: and hound growl is the equivalent of pestilence
[8:09 PM] MadeofTime: implant is essentially vorpal? would you mind elaborating on what you mean for someone who hasn't played templar?
[8:10 PM] Benedicto: so vorpal is the opportunity to give a third aff
[8:10 PM] Benedicto: you build up blade charge through using attacks and then when that blade charge reaches a certain level, you can release it as a vorpal to give a third aff
[8:11 PM] Benedicto: implant is essentially the same in that a Carni hits and generates soul, that soul can then be used to implant a chosen venom into a person
[8:11 PM] Benedicto: which can then be released at a chosen point
[8:11 PM] Benedicto: so both skills are a controllable third venom release
[8:11 PM] MadeofTime: doesn't the 45s cooldown on implant differentiate it pretty heavily? as i understand it vorpal happens a lot more often than that
[8:12 PM] Benedicto: it depends on the pen stats of the weapons for a Temp
[8:12 PM] Benedicto: so if you're going full speed weapons
[8:12 PM] Benedicto: your pen stat is going to be secondary
[8:12 PM] Benedicto: so you might get a vorpal every 6 rounds of combat
[8:13 PM] Benedicto: so I guess you can vorpal in half the time as implant
[8:13 PM] Benedicto: but you wouldn't want to do that
[8:13 PM] Benedicto: vorpal needs to be used in a similar manner to implant
[8:13 PM] Benedicto: you only want to use it to get a soft lock
[8:14 PM] Benedicto: so even though you can generate it quicker, strictly speaking
[8:14 PM] Benedicto: the time it takes for you to fully stick the affs you want will probably put you in the same region as the cooldown for implant
[8:14 PM] Benedicto: you'll at least want a paresis/clums/off-focus buffer
[8:14 PM] Benedicto: otherwise you'll vorpal, get immediately focused and you're back to square one
[8:16 PM] MadeofTime: alright
[8:16 PM] MadeofTime: so
[8:16 PM] MadeofTime: the one change you think would 100% put carnifex in a balanced place and not make their aff route un viable
[8:16 PM] MadeofTime: is to change growl from stupidity to another focusable aff
[8:16 PM] MadeofTime: any sugestions on aff?
[8:17 PM] Benedicto: I don't if they need to or not
[8:17 PM] Benedicto: but dizziness seems to have become an important aff to them
[8:17 PM] Benedicto: because it negates dodge
[8:18 PM] Benedicto: it's further down the focus curing tree so it doesn't interfere with anorexia
[8:18 PM] Benedicto: so you could change it to that and give people the choice, do you want to waste focus on dizziness, it means you'll not get hit as often but you'll be off focus balance
[8:19 PM] Benedicto: it still has use to the Carni, because they need to negate dodge (don't know the exact reasons behind it right at this moment, must be a 2h thing)
[8:21 PM] MadeofTime: well they have zero clumsiness mitigation
[8:21 PM] MadeofTime: clumsiness + dodge can fuck a carni up pr good in my experience
[8:21 PM] MadeofTime: but anyway
[8:21 PM] MadeofTime: summarize
[8:21 PM] MadeofTime: carni has too much focus and lock pressure right now: changing growl to dizziness would solve it(edited)
[8:22 PM] MadeofTime: anything else you can think of?
[8:22 PM] Benedicto: I mean, in terms of sheer combat, I think that's it pmuch
[8:22 PM] MadeofTime: thanks this conversation has been recorded for quality assurance purposes