ragle is terrible at debate

+inkless
Meanwhile, the fact that Google fires people for making reasonable suggestions for how they could be a more inclusive employer is barely considered newsworthy. I'll just wait patiently to learn the outcome of that lawsuit.
Stopped ignoring ragle!*@*
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+GeneralAwareness
I still had ragle on ignore since last week.
ragle: I took you off ignore.
inkless: I read a fair bit about the Google memo.
I have recently read Yuval Harari's Homo Deus in which he talks extensively about humanism as a religion.
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+inkless
and I can't even find details of who organized this rally in Boston and what their platform/principles are
+GeneralAwareness
Google's response was a clear religious response.
James Damore wrote his memo in the spirit of the scientific project.
Google's response was a reaffirmation of their core values, that is, a statement of faith.
+inkless
Google has near-unilateral power to push websites into the deep web, and there is no reason to believe they are more responsible with that power than with their power to arbitrarily terminate employees
+GeneralAwareness
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/450387/james-damore-google-memo-manufactured-diversity-controv...
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+GeneralAwareness
inkless: I think their firing should give genuine concern to their ability to operate fair algorithms.
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+GeneralAwareness
It's already been shown, repeatedly, that it's actually quite hard to make neutral algorithms in the space of machine learning.
+Hedrin_
Hello
+ragle
http://heavy.com/news/2017/08/john-medlar-boston-free-speech-rally-coalition-organizer/
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+inkless
Personally I hate searching for anything using any search engine
+ragle
Medlar claims he won't provide a platform for racists but invited Gavin McInnes and Augustus Invictus anyway (before they dropped out of the lineup)
+inkless
I've gotten good at "google-fu" but I still prefer to just know the addresses of good sites, which I keep in a text file
You can only use search engines to look for information that you know you don't know
+GeneralAwareness
I don't know that Gavin is a racist.
+inkless
or that you know you know and you want a source to give to others
+GeneralAwareness
Not that it's that important.
What one guy does or says.
+ragle
as for the Google guy, he wasn't fired for wanting a "more inclusive" workplace...he was fired for being a sexist dirtbag and saying sexist dirtbaggy things
+inkless
but to learn what you don't even know that you don't know, you have to interact with other people
ragle: did you actually read the memo?
+GeneralAwareness
ragle: That sounds like a non-scientific response.
1 - You're making ad hominem statements which are unprofessional.
+Hedrin
I had a weird incident happen this morning. People are getting nuttier and nuttier all the time.
+GeneralAwareness
2 - You're imputing motive which the history of philosophy tells us is notoriously fraught with risk.
+ragle
inkless, yes
+GeneralAwareness
ragle: I will ignore you on your next fallacy.
ragle: Please provide what you think is the best citation from Damore's memo that supports your thesis.
+inkless
ragle: cool, then can you quote something from it that a reasonable person would consider to be "sexist dirtbaggy things"?
+GeneralAwareness
(He's not going to)
(He's going to give us further personal narrative that tells us the memo was real bad)
+ragle
inkless, you mean like the part where he claims that biological differences promote gender gaps at Google and the tech industry?
+Hedrin
fuck the Google guy.
+GeneralAwareness
(Perhaps followed up with veiled criticisms of our character and/or worldview)
I don't think he precisely made that claim.
He made claims very close to that, though.
His primary claim follows:
+inkless
ragle: actual words rather than your paraphrasing would be awesome
+GeneralAwareness
1 - We observe unequal representation of men and women in tech and tech leadership.
+Hedrin
I am not sure why so many think Google doesn't have the right to fire him for any reason.
+GeneralAwareness
2 - Not all of that delta is explained through discriminatory hiring practices.
3 - A non-zero amount of that delta may be do to biological differences in men and women.
+ragle
inkless, i will see if i can find it again since i said i had read it, not memorized it....the point, however, is that Google and many many many others did consider it sexist and dirtbaggy...that's why he was fired
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+GeneralAwareness
4 - The best way to resolve those biological differences is constructing a workplace that is congruent with the differential preferences of men and women.
+Hedrin
Go boycott Google - use hotbot or altavista or Askjeeves
+GeneralAwareness
5 - It's important to avoid discriminatory and/or illegal responses to try and fix that delta.
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+GeneralAwareness
6 - It appears Google may believe it is participating in some illegal responses to address that delta.
inkless: He's going to see if he can find it again.
It can be really hard to re-find a document in the digital era with search engines.
He knows a guy, though, he may know where he left the document.
He didn't memorize it, after all.
It's not like you can ctrl-f through a document in the digital age.
+inkless
ragle: I don't really care what other people think of something, unless I can read it and see that it's sexist I will assume the other people are just wrong or lying
+GeneralAwareness
And your expectation of him memorizing the entire document seems a little unfair.
inkless: Did you know what he did after that?
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+GeneralAwareness
He reiterated his thesis.
So, here's what he's done so far.
1 - Make very powerful thesis.
+ragle
inkless, that assumption and about $3 will get you a cup of coffee at your local gender inclusive Starbucks
+Hedrin
Sexists and racists are similar in the fact that when they get called out on it - they act like they are the victim and you're the asshole.
+GeneralAwareness
2 - When challenged to defend thesis, state he's not sure if he can do it, and then repeat thesis.
This is what we're working with.
Ignoring ragle!*@*
+GeneralAwareness
ragle: You made another fallacy.
This resulted in my ignoring you.
+inkless
and one way people lie is by inventing their own definiton of a word, and then deliberately equivocating between that definition and the dictionary definition whcih reports what the vast majority of people understand the word to mean
+Hedrin
I don't understand why if you're a sexist or a racist - you don't take a little pride in yourself and accept the consequences.
+GeneralAwareness
Further, I will add this conversation to a record of chatter's behavior.
And I will substantially downgrade my estimate of your intelligence.
+inkless
ragle: but you haven't quoted the relevant section yt
which in turn makes me wonder if you read it
+GeneralAwareness
inkless: What do you think are the odds he's ever going to cite the document?
I'll go with 3%.
+inkless
GeneralAwareness: should we have a novelty bet on it?