Paul Convo

Kada - 09/10/2017
hey Paul, can I have a chat with you about SF?
I'm almost at the point of leaving
Paul - 09/10/2017
With the time zone difference making it almost impossible to see you now and this being a really bad year for you with us, I don't see why you would want to stay.(edited)
Kada - 09/10/2017
I was fine, until I tried to raise a suggestion with Thorton a little over a month ago and he insulted me about it and made me feel like I basically shouldn't be in the guild
Kada - 09/10/2017
I figured I'd wait him out and see if he was going to apologise but he hasn't
let me dig up the convo with Thorton
because it was about 2 weeks before that post of yours
Paul - 09/10/2017
He told me about it. How we've become soft and just let anyone in.
and we get offended over everything now when it used to be anyone could say anything back then(edited)
Kada - 09/10/2017
he told you or he showed you?
Paul - 09/10/2017
I can't remember. I want to say he showed me
Kada - 09/10/2017
did he tell you that I tried to raise a suggestion for guild theorycrafting like we used to back in the Jed days because it generally raised the skill level of everyone involved and he decided that I was complaining that he and klow don't schedule anything in my specific timezone and shut me down?
Paul - 09/10/2017
he did
Kada - 09/10/2017
and when I got offended because I was just trying to help, I got told "god Klow stop being triggered by any little comment"
I tried to raise something that wouldn't have any benefits for me personally, but that I remembered really working for the guild in the past
and instead it got turned around that I was complaining about my own timezone and them not doing anything for ME personally ,when I never raised that or asked for that at all
Paul - 09/10/2017
We're always mentioning during and before raids skill rotations and what to do and not do. There's only a small handful of guilds that even give us a problem in the entire game. I understand the sentiment and we might actually do it with PoF coming out, but at the moment it just isn't needed. I haven't seen you at a raid in ages so you wouldn't be able to witness any progress we've made as well
Kada - 09/10/2017
on the one hand he says the guild doesn't need it, on the other hand he calls it "a bunch of retards trying to theorycraft"
Paul - 09/10/2017
I mentioned above we'll be revisiting it once PoF is out later this month
Any animosity he has hiding in his responses is really just from all the extra drama you unfortunately caused us this year.
Kada - 09/10/2017
what drama did I cause this year?
Paul - 09/10/2017
If someone asked me the worst thing the guild dealt with this year, I would say the Kada/Prince/Luuki/Cel friendship
Kada - 09/10/2017
I'm failing to see how that was a drama though, compared to people getting toxic with each other about GvGs and DPS meters and PvE raiding for personal gain etc
Paul - 09/10/2017
it's drama people a lot of members had asked why we're allowing them to have their own pm conversations but talk about it during reset, insult our own members and argue with other members in guild chat. Once it died, we've had barely any complaints and everyone is so much happier
Prince going to KnF is our loss? Definitely not.
Kada - 09/10/2017
multiple people were going in and out of our parties and everything was said in party chat, it's no different to drunk vyro and river having convos in their parties and mentioning it on discord
like, I said it back then and I still say it now...I don't know where this idea of these clandestine private conversations come from because they weren't happening
Paul - 09/10/2017
are you serious. You guys would would talk during reset with responses to each other like  I know right? Is he really? and all laugh together while 45 other people are just thinking are they really doing this
Kada - 09/10/2017
in cases of something like an "I know right" it'd be someone in party chat might've been like "omg look at my resistance spam" or something like that
the reason why we wanted to be in the same party was because we were all playing team meta and we were trying to push team meta and make ourselves as good as possible, so the majority of what we were talking about were things like stabs and resistance and who was rotating what
from time to time someone might make a "what the fuck is graphik even saying" comment, but 99% of the talk was actually about game stuff
and on the 1 instance I got asked not to be so hard on graphik, I did as I was asked - I muted her and blocked her so I didn't have to see or hear her retardation
Paul - 09/10/2017
I can't defend you anymore. You're not the person I remember coming to help when you were going through a health scare and not mentally right from the medications and Lectel was shitting all over you wanting to kick you. I've defended you soooo many times over the years, but this is it. I think you would be happier if you left. Anytime I talk to you anymore, it's about something you don't like with us. I know at least 25% of the guild wants you to leave or doesn't even know who you are because of the time zone difference. People who attend 10+ raids of ours a month have less complaints. This marriage just doesn't work anymore.
Kada - 09/10/2017
I like SF itself, I just didn't like how Thorton reacted when I raised something to try and help the guild when he asked members for feedback
and if this was such a big issue that it was potentially a kick worthy thing, why wasn't I pulled aside and spoken to about it?
Paul - 09/10/2017
We're going in circles. He reacted that way from all the drama that stemmed from the clique you had with Luuki/Cel/Prince
Oh we did, I spoke to Luuki myself, Cel was told as well and Prince ended up leaving
following by Cel to Kek. It fell a part at the same time
Kada - 09/10/2017
okay, but if I was part of it too shouldn't I have been pulled aside and someone been like "hey, this is how things look, what's the deal?"
if 4 people were involved, why weren't all 4 spoken to about it?
Paul - 09/10/2017
because you're my age and they were all 22. They're still all immature and need to be put in line occasionally. You should know better
Kada - 09/10/2017
literally the only feedback I ever got that we were apparently some kind of insidious clique was Thorton drunkenly telling me one reset in voice comms "if you guys are gonna have convos in party chat, respond in party chat not in voice comms" and that was all the feedback I ever got
oh sorry, aside from the "please don't shit on graphik so hard" convo
which I immediately complied with
Paul - 09/10/2017
You weren't the worse of the bunch. Luuki was followed by Cel which we both talked to. It doesn't deter from the fact it was our biggest headache this year. Outside of the constant DKLT bashing, Luuki has been slightly better
Kada - 09/10/2017
everyone involved removed Cel from spending time with us not long afterwards because he was being toxic in the raiding guild that we were part of, and then about a month or so later he left for KEK
Paul - 09/10/2017
Regardless, it's been dead in the water for over a month.
Kada - 09/10/2017
None of them ever told me that they'd been spoken to like that by anyone, Luukii told me way before that when he had his convo with you about Cel and about growing up and acting his age a bit, but as far as I was aware no one spoke to Prince about it and I never got spoken to either, so I was never made aware that this was as big an issue as it apparently was
and if there was resentment from Thorton towards me in his responses to me because of it, that's really something I should've known about and been talked to about
because I've been sitting here the past month or so going "wtf did I do to you Thorton?"
and literally only just when I raise it, I'm finding out there's animosity from an issue I never got spoken to about
like, do you see my confusion on this one Paul?
the guild has been good to me over the last 3 years, so the one thing I was spoken to about I dealt with immediately
but if I don't get told there's an issue with something else, I can't deal with that issue immediately either
Paul - 09/10/2017
The reason I never talked to you is really just based on how this conversation has went over the last 45 minutes. A double dodge following by it's never my fault. If you only knew the amount of complaints over the years about you that we've gotten that we would side step or turn a blind eye to. It's way more than Rainshadow ever was. I mean, I never saw Xeeron mad at someone in over 10 years of playing with him. You were somehow the very first person to bring that out of him. We've had multiple people make fake SF tags at our expense because they didn't like the fact you banned them from the old TS, yet we always stuck by your side. Your name just keep coming back over and over and over again. I just can't do it anymore. This is the end for me.
Kada - 09/10/2017
it's not a double dodge or a "not my fault" thing, if I was doing something that was an issue and I was talked to about it by the leaders I would've dealt with it
if someone had come to me and gone "look, this is a problem we're seeing" I would've taken steps to fix it
whether it was making sure intentions weren't misunderstood, or even going so far as distancing myself from the others, I would've taken steps
Paul - 09/10/2017
The reason we always deal with it is because you're really stubborn to talk to if you're the one at blame. I'm not even sure sorry is in your vocabulary so we deal with it for you. Trust me, you can ask Jed yourself who defended you til the cows came home.
and he came close to removing you as well because it was just so much of a headache to deal with
It was like a line at a deli counter at one point
Kada - 09/10/2017
if I'm to blame I'll accept it, I didn't argue back about the graphik thing at all I just went "yep ok" and dealt with it
I'll admit I can be harder to talk to in text because english isn't my first language, but even a "hey, wanna jump into a channel and have a chat?" talk or anything would've helped me take steps to try and fix an issue
if it had been raised to me, I would've said what I said about it being misunderstood, but I also would've said that I would work to make sure that any misunderstandings didn't keep happening and that it didn't look like some super secret babysitter's club shit
because from my personal side of things it wasn't
Kada - 09/10/2017
to put it in perspective, I saw that group as being the same as when myself, Fae and Keeghan do fractals together and invite other people along - we'll call out in guild chat that we're going, so if it was being seen as something way different to the point where other people were talked to about it, I was in the dark
Paul - 09/10/2017
yep ok is probably the closest thing to sorry we're going to get anyway. We're apporaching an hour and I don't feel any closer to a resolve. Both parties are probably farther away than they were at the start. That pretty much sums up the relationship between the guild and yourself this year. I'm going to cut the grass. Stay if you like, but I refuse to believe you're that oblivious when all the new members come in and view you as that negative chick who just shits on Klow and our own members and gets away with it.