panel Mnichovské bezpečnostní konference 2024

Mluvčí 06:  Yeah.
Mluvčí 06: Please, please sit down.
Mluvčí 06: Kurt, Kurt, please sit down.
Mluvčí 06: Yeah.
Mluvčí 07:  Dear friends, Mr. President, Prime Ministers, Madam Secretary, dear Ministers, General, our heroes, thank you very much that you are here.
Mluvčí 07:  for our traditional Ukrainian lunch.
Mluvčí 07: Dear friends, thank you very much for what your country, your people, your nation is doing for Ukraine.
Mluvčí 07: Ukrainians will never forget this.
Mluvčí 07: Thank you very much.
Mluvčí 07: But today we will talk not only about thank you.
Mluvčí 07: Friends of Ukraine now often say,
Mluvčí 07:  The West's economy is 20, 20 times bigger than Russia's.
Mluvčí 07: Definitely, we have to win.
Mluvčí 07: But it's not so easy.
Mluvčí 07: Yes, the West's economy is 20, 30 times bigger than Russia's.
Mluvčí 07: But the US and the European Union gave 0.4% and 0.3% of their GDP, respectively, for military support for Ukraine.
Mluvčí 07:  Russia spends 40% of their budget on attacking Ukraine, between 6% and 8% of GDP, maybe even 10% of GDP.
Mluvčí 07: This compensates a 20-25 times bigger Western potential.
Mluvčí 07: And it's not only what Russia produces, also what Russia gets from Iran and North Korea.
Mluvčí 07: They have very small economies, but they have big military production.
Mluvčí 07:  Russia's leaders say this war is existential.
Mluvčí 07: The West does not see this way yet.
Mluvčí 07: This is wrong.
Mluvčí 07: Size of your economy does not win a war in Ukraine.
Mluvčí 07: Not even what you plan to give later matters what you do now.
Mluvčí 07: Ukraine cannot hold the line much longer without enough weapons and ammunition.
Mluvčí 07:  There is no time to wait until the United States and Europe figure out who is ready to give what and when.
Mluvčí 07: Of course, Ukrainians will keep fighting whatever happens and will never give up.
Mluvčí 07: But Ukraine can lose in the short term.
Mluvčí 07: Ukrainians are exhausted, have no ammunition.
Mluvčí 07: I talk to Ukrainian soldiers much.
Mluvčí 07: They say, if we knew the aid is coming,
Mluvčí 07:  It would give us strength to reach this point.
Mluvčí 07: But as of now, we don't have this perspective.
Mluvčí 07: And what Ukraine lost in 2024, you cannot get back just because in 2025 you increased production.
Mluvčí 07: Many of you were here in 2022.
Mluvčí 07:  You remember?
Mluvčí 07: It was a very dark moment.
Mluvčí 07: The West had waited too long to give Ukraine weapons.
Mluvčí 07: We knew a drama will happen because of this.
Mluvčí 07: And now, in 2024, it can happen again.
Mluvčí 07: Don't hope it will not happen.
Mluvčí 07: Learn from 2022.
Mluvčí 07: Give more weapons now.
Mluvčí 07:  Or you may regret your inaction even more than you did after February 2022.
Mluvčí 07: Europe and the West must switch their logic 180 degrees.
Mluvčí 07: Ukraine should not have to ask for weapons.
Mluvčí 07: You should be proactively offering.
Mluvčí 07: Only then Ukrainians who do the impossible can preserve independence.
Mluvčí 07:  Only this will create a chance for peace and security.
Mluvčí 07: Peace and security for you.
Mluvčí 07: 2022 was the year when everybody underestimated Ukraine.
Mluvčí 07: 2023 was the year when everybody underestimated our enemy.
Mluvčí 07: 2024 will be the moment of truth.
Mluvčí 07: And this year of truth, 2024, is in your hands.
Mluvčí 07:  in big part in your hands.
Mluvčí 07: Thank you very much for your attention.
Mluvčí 07: And Zannie, the floor is yours.
Mluvčí 03:  Thank you, Victor.
Mluvčí 03: I'm delighted to be back here again, moderating this lunch.
Mluvčí 03: It's now the third time I've had the honor of doing this.
Mluvčí 03: The first time was, as you say, Victor, just a few days before the full-scale invasion.
Mluvčí 03: The second time last year, there was, I think, a moment of a mood of an upbeat mood in this room, a mood that had huge expectations for the counter-offensive.
Mluvčí 03:  And now I think we meet again at a much more sober moment.
Mluvčí 03: This is the morning where the retreat from Malifidivka was announced.
Mluvčí 03: We are seeing an excruciating shortage of weapons in Ukraine.
Mluvčí 03: The US supplemental has not been passed.
Mluvčí 03: We saw yesterday with the killing of Alexei Navalny, yet again, just in case we needed any more proof of the kind of enemy Ukraine is up against.
Mluvčí 03:  And just a few days ago, we had those comments from former President Trump about NATO, which I think put into sharp relief the point, Victor, that you made, that this is a question for the future of Europe and the uncertainties that Europe faces more broadly.
Mluvčí 03:  So I think this is an important and sober moment for us to have this conversation.
Mluvčí 03: And I think there's kind of two timeframes and two parameters.
Mluvčí 03: The first is in the short term, how to ensure, as you say, Victor, that Ukraine gets these weapons, what happens, what is needed in the short term.
Mluvčí 03: And then a broader term of Europe's future, Europe's future with Ukraine, Europe's security future, what that looks like in light of
Mluvčí 03:  the Russia that we have and the United States that I'm not sure what direction the United States is going in.
Mluvčí 03: So it's that backdrop this conversation is going to occur.
Mluvčí 03: We have, as you can tell, a fantastic panel here and there are also a number of you who will be making remarks from the floor.
Mluvčí 03:  Please, please keep your remarks brief, because there are about 25 people who would like to speak in the next hour and a half, and you can do the maths.
Mluvčí 03: So no speeches.
Mluvčí 03: But very, very briefly, Piotr Pavel, President of the Czech Republic, Kaja Kalas, Prime Minister of Estonia, Alexander Dekru, Prime Minister of Belgium, Secretary Hillary Clinton, former Secretary of State, Mette Frederiksen, Prime Minister of Denmark, and of course Nikolai Denkov, Prime Minister of Bulgaria.
Mluvčí 03: Thank you all for joining.
Mluvčí 03: It's testament to the
Mluvčí 03:  just extraordinary importance of Ukraine, the sense of solidarity, and indeed, Victor, the importance of this lunch that you have attracted such a panel.
Mluvčí 03: President Pavel, I'm gonna start with you because those of you who were here last year will remember that in a general mood of upbeat commentary, President Pavel was remarkably sober.
Mluvčí 03:  about what one should expect from a counter-offensive and what one should expect in terms of Ukraine's potential on the battlefield and more broadly.
Mluvčí 03: So I wanted to ask you first, how do you see things today?
Mluvčí 03: Are you as worried as many of us are?
Mluvčí 03: And what is the route forward?
Mluvčí 18:  Thank you and good afternoon to all of you.
Mluvčí 18: And I'm particularly pleased to see the uniforms of Ukrainian soldiers.
Mluvčí 18: You have my great respect.
Mluvčí 18: First, let me say that I am really not glad that I was right last year.
Mluvčí 18: I would be much happier if we can celebrate Ukrainian success and restoration of full control over your territory.
Mluvčí 18:  But my intention last year was not to ruin combat spirit of Ukrainian forces, but rather stress that we all should strive for the best, but be ready for the worst.
Mluvčí 18: And also count with other options and be ready how do we react on them.
Mluvčí 18:  Since last year, the situation on the battlefield has changed significantly.
Mluvčí 18: Now we see that the situation is not good in a number of areas.
Mluvčí 18: Russia, despite all of the mistakes on their side from the beginning of the aggression,
Mluvčí 18:  has learned a lot of lessons, including from Ukrainian military and their tactics.
Mluvčí 18: They managed to transit to war economy.
Mluvčí 18:  They are now producing more weapons and ammunition that we collectively can provide to Ukraine.
Mluvčí 18: They don't care about their human resources, so their pool for mobilization is still much, much larger than on Ukrainian side.
Mluvčí 18: And also, President Putin is now working with the direction to
Mluvčí 18:  achieve some success, visible success, prior to the elections.
Mluvčí 18: So what we can do with this situation, realizing the facts, is to support Ukraine in deliveries of weapons and ammunition from all the sources available.
Mluvčí 18:  And I think we should be as innovative, as flexible as our Ukrainian soldiers on the ground and start looking for an equipment everywhere.
Mluvčí 18: And I would use an example of my own country where we took an approach that we are looking for ammunition and equipment all around the world and then work with our partners in NATO.
Mluvčí 18:  I would like to mention specifically Denmark, Netherlands, Canada, with whom we have come up with the arrangement that we combine know-how with resources.
Mluvčí 18: We get that equipment from third countries, deliver it to either our country for overhaul, and then deliver it to Ukraine.
Mluvčí 18:  We have identified at this point half a million rounds of 155 caliber, another 300,000 rounds of 122 caliber, which we will be able to deliver within weeks if we find quickly funding for that activity.
Mluvčí 18: And we will address our partners from U.S., Germany, Sweden, and we look also around for whoever is able to contribute to this effort.
Mluvčí 18:  The aim of this activity is to strengthen at maximum Ukrainian defense so that they spare their human resources, they cause as much attrition to Russian forces as possible, and that they hold the ground they have right now, not to allow Russia to develop any significant success.
Mluvčí 18: Because as we know, this war is as much
Mluvčí 18:  about real war fighting on the battlefield as it is about psychological warfare.
Mluvčí 18: And President Putin desperately needs to interpret the activities of Russia and Ukraine as a success.
Mluvčí 18:  we shouldn't leave him the space for it.
Mluvčí 18: First, allowing Ukraine to hold the territory, and second, to go on with our efforts to integrate Ukraine into both EU and NATO, stressing clearly that a temporary occupation of part of Ukrainian territory is not a stop for us on the way towards EU and NATO.
Mluvčí 18:  That would not only give Ukraine a clear indication that we mean it seriously, but it would also give a clear indication to President Putin that he will not succeed.
Mluvčí 03:  Thank you.
Mluvčí 03: Just one quick follow-up on that and the idea that you lay out.
Mluvčí 03: Do you think that this should be happening now, even before any decision has been made in the US about whether there will or will not be supplemental funding?
Mluvčí 03: And why isn't Europe doing what you're suggesting right now?
Mluvčí 18:  I believe that Europe is doing a lot.
Mluvčí 18: It's not that European contribution is small or negligent.
Mluvčí 18: I believe that we shouldn't wait for the United States.
Mluvčí 18: We all have to act now.
Mluvčí 18: The sooner the better.
Mluvčí 18: And of course, if the bill in the United States is passed, it will be obviously good news.
Mluvčí 18: But if there is any delay, we shouldn't wait.
Mluvčí 18: We should do our best right now.
Mluvčí 03:  Thank you.
Mluvčí 03: Prime Minister Kallas, you have loudly, effectively and admirably for a long time been telling the world about the threat from Vladimir Putin.
Mluvčí 03: Do you feel that right now there is any change in the perception of that threat from your fellow politicians and the rest of the EU?
Mluvčí 03: Is there a sense that something is moving here about Europeans' own sense of their security?
Mluvčí 00:  Yes, that is true.
Mluvčí 00: I think the first change was on the 24th of February in 2022.
Mluvčí 00: So there is some movement, of course, we would like to see it faster.
Mluvčí 00: But I would disagree with you that last year we were all upbeat.
Mluvčí 00: I think the war was still going on and we weren't upbeat.
Mluvčí 00: But I agree with you that
Mluvčí 00:  maybe we were overly optimistic regarding the counter-offensive in 2023.
Mluvčí 00: What we should avoid is being overly pessimistic in 2024.
Mluvčí 00: I think, you know, if we let our
Mluvčí 00:  emotions down, then we can't accomplish anything.
Mluvčí 00: I think this is also very, very important.
Mluvčí 00: So what have we done?
Mluvčí 00: I mean, we have ramped up still the defense expenditure, but we also have ramped up the defense production.
Mluvčí 00: I mean, I just met with one of the representatives of defense industry who said that we have increased ammunition production by 10 times.
Mluvčí 00:  So there is movement and of course there are different signals coming from different European countries about factories being built and so that we could deliver what we promised to Ukraine and do it faster.
Mluvčí 00: I totally agree with President Zelensky who just said that don't do something, do everything.
Mluvčí 00:  that is needed in order for Ukraine to defend itself.
Mluvčí 00: Because, as I said before, I mean, we have seen this before.
Mluvčí 00: I mean, let's not repeat the mistakes we did in history.
Mluvčí 00: I mean, history rhymes, but we also have the possibility to change that.
Mluvčí 03:  Prime Minister Frederickson, I was going to ask you a somewhat similar question and I'm not going completely in order here.
Mluvčí 03: Is your sense that there is clearly a willingness within Europe and a sense, but I often hear, we can't substitute for the Americans in the short term.
Mluvčí 03: We will step up, but there's a limit to what we can do.
Mluvčí 03: Do you share that?
Mluvčí 03: Do you think Europe is doing as much as it could be doing?
Mluvčí 03:  Well, that was clear.
Mluvčí 01: No, but of course it has to be the answer.
Mluvčí 01: Not meaning that we haven't done a lot during the last two years, because we have.
Mluvčí 01: And we can be quite proud of our transatlantic community because it has never been stronger than it is today.
Mluvčí 01: But I think it's quite clear to all of us that it is not enough.
Mluvčí 01: So we have to speed up and we have to scale up.
Mluvčí 01: And no matter what will happen in US,
Mluvčí 01:  the conclusion has to be written already now as Europeans.
Mluvčí 01: We have to be able to protect ourself.
Mluvčí 01: And to protect ourself, we need to deliver what is needed in Ukraine now.
Mluvčí 01: And I really enjoy this conference and this, sorry.
Mluvčí 01: I think we all enjoy this conference and to meet each other, but the sense of urgency
Mluvčí 01:  is simply not clear enough in our discussions.
Mluvčí 01: And I think it's important, of course, to address the long-term perspective.
Mluvčí 01:  Totally agree with you, Gaia, on European production.
Mluvčí 01: I was here in Germany just a few days ago to open up an ammunition factory together with a German chancellor, and we have to do much more.
Mluvčí 01: But if you ask the Ukrainians, they are asking us for ammunition now.
Mluvčí 01: Artillery now.
Mluvčí 01: From the Danish side, we decided to donate our entire artillery.
Mluvčí 01:  And I'm sorry to say, friends, there are still ammunition in stock in Europe.
Mluvčí 01: This is not only a question about production, because we have weapons, we have ammunitions, we have air defense that we don't have to use ourselves at the moment, that we should deliver to Ukraine.
Mluvčí 01: So... Yes.
Mluvčí 01:  So as Kaya said, we need not to be pessimistic because we have to solve this situation.
Mluvčí 01: But Russia do not want peace with us.
Mluvčí 01: They are destabilizing the Western world from many different angles.
Mluvčí 01: In the Arctic region, in Balkan, in Africa with disinformation, with cyber attacks, with hybrid war, and obviously in Ukraine.
Mluvčí 01:  So if they don't want peace, we have to be able... It's in our transatlantic community.
Mluvčí 01: And our alliance is now 75 years old.
Mluvčí 01: It has been the strongest alliance the world has ever seen.
Mluvčí 01: But no matter what will happen in the US, the responsibility for Europe has to be in Europe.
Mluvčí 01: And we have to do more.
Mluvčí 03:  Prime Minister Denkhoff and Secretary Clinton, I am going to come to you, but I thought we'd have all the views, and you, Prime Minister, too, but we'd have all the views from Europe first.
Mluvčí 03: So the view from Bulgaria, you know the Russians well.
Mluvčí 03: You are geographically and historically, you have a sense of this.
Mluvčí 03: Do you think your colleagues in Western Europe, in the European Union,
Mluvčí 03:  understand or have a sense of the gravity of this and the urgency of it?
Mluvčí 03: Do you agree with Prime Minister Fredrickson?
Mluvčí 15:  We are close to the battlefield.
Mluvčí 15: We have this historical and cultural ties to understand maybe better what is happening there.
Mluvčí 15: And this is probably one of the reasons we reacted in the first days of the war.
Mluvčí 15: So we were one of the first countries to send AMUs to say, OK, we have to support you on the ground with whatever we have.
Mluvčí 15: And we sent already three packages.
Mluvčí 15: We are discussing what else we can do with the support of the other countries as well.
Mluvčí 15:  But what we see is that this sense of urgency was not shared first by the other politicians, so it took some time.
Mluvčí 15: Maybe the over-optimism that you mentioned last year in some way kept the understanding of the politicians that it is urgent, it has not changed from the first days of the war, it is always urgent.
Mluvčí 15:  But what worries me a little bit more is that the politicians started to understand this.
Mluvčí 15: You still have not conveyed this message sufficiently to the people in our countries.
Mluvčí 15: So this is one of the missions that I have, I feel in my country, to explain to the people that this historical ties doesn't help us in this situation because the danger is there and we have to open our eyes, we should not stay with
Mluvčí 15:  widely closed eyes, just the opposite.
Mluvčí 15: We have to open the eyes of every citizen in Europe to understand that the life that we enjoy, the life that we want to be safe, can disappear as it happened many times in history.
Mluvčí 15: And then we can win the opinion of the people and then they will support us.
Mluvčí 15: This is still missing today.
Mluvčí 15: And this one sense of urgency that I have.
Mluvčí 03:  Thank you.
Mluvčí 03: Prime Minister Dutroux, I want to ask you about frozen assets, but just first before that, as Prime Minister Denkov said, do you think the sense is still amongst, let's take your own country, voters that it is about helping Ukraine or do they understand that it is about helping themselves?
Mluvčí 16:  Well, if you see what happened to Alexei Navalny, I think it's quite clear who's in front of us.
Mluvčí 16: And unfortunately, his death is not a surprise.
Mluvčí 16: Unfortunately.
Mluvčí 16: And we can only honor what he was fighting for.
Mluvčí 16: Fighting for democracy, against corruption.
Mluvčí 16:  And he kept going back.
Mluvčí 16: He could have stayed here, but he kept going back.
Mluvčí 16: So we can only have incredible admiration for what he stood for.
Mluvčí 16: And it shows the Russia in front of us, which is a Russia that only has bad intentions with their own population and with us Europeans.
Mluvčí 16:  So yes, Ukraine is fighting for much more than just Ukraine.
Mluvčí 16: It's fighting for our Western way of life and it's quite clear that in the next decades we will have as Europeans a Russia confronted to us who is not friendly and who has only very bad intentions with all their neighbors.
Mluvčí 03:  So one of the means of combating this, Russia, is to seize its assets.
Mluvčí 03: And a large fraction of those assets sit in your country.
Mluvčí 03: Why aren't you doing more to, as some countries say, seize those assets?
Mluvčí 03: Why is this still a subject of loyally discussion and not action?
Mluvčí 16: Well, first of all, there is one country that is going to pay for the reconstruction of Ukraine.
Mluvčí 16:  And it is Russia and only Russia.
Mluvčí 16: So Russia is going to pay for this.
Mluvčí 16: To do this, we'll have to do it on different tracks.
Mluvčí 16: One of them is the proceeds of those frozen assets.
Mluvčí 16: There, the European Commission has made a legal basis to use them.
Mluvčí 16: And we already used the taxation on the proceeds of that going to Ukraine.
Mluvčí 16: Then for the assets themselves,
Mluvčí 16:  We need to build a legal basis that enables us to use or to leverage those hundreds of billions that are sitting there.
Mluvčí 16:  The right level to do it is the G7.
Mluvčí 16: We are confident that finding a solution to leverage those assets, to quickly get access to the capital market, to bring the hundreds of billions to Ukraine, to reconstruct Ukraine, we're confident that it is possible to find a sound legal basis for it.
Mluvčí 16: We'll work together with the G7 to do it.
Mluvčí 16:  but we Belgians cannot do it on our own.
Mluvčí 16: We will work together with the G7 to find a solution and to make sure that the billions can be used to reconstruct the ones who are suffering of the incredible aggression of Russia.
Mluvčí 03: Thank you.
Mluvčí 03: Prime Minister Callas, very, very briefly because I'm then going to open to the floor.
Mluvčí 03: Okay, you can't briefly.
Mluvčí 03: All right, well then I would rather nothing than no briefly.
Mluvčí 03: We'll come back.
Mluvčí 03: Secretary Clinton, you have sat here listening to various European leaders talk about what they would do if the US
Mluvčí 03:  didn't show up.
Mluvčí 03: I guess I have two simple questions for you.
Mluvčí 03: One is, will this supplemental be passed and will the U.S.
Mluvčí 03: show up?
Mluvčí 03: And two, can we in Europe still rely on the U.S. ?
Mluvčí 13:  Well first, let me say I think Europe should do what the prime ministers have said they intend to do regardless of what happens from the US.
Mluvčí 13: I think it's in Europe's interest, it's in Ukraine's interest, and it is in the United States' interest for Europe to continue to increase its support, increase its defense spending, increase its cooperation in order to confront Russia and to be prepared
Mluvčí 13:  for what happens in Ukraine and beyond.
Mluvčí 13: But I do think that the United States will finally pass the supplemental.
Mluvčí 13: It will probably not happen until March.
Mluvčí 13: There is, as you know, a minority
Mluvčí 13:  of Republicans in the House who have been holding it up.
Mluvčí 13: If it gets a vote in the House, it will pass overwhelmingly on a bipartisan vote.
Mluvčí 13: So the challenge will be getting it to the floor, and there are a number of ways that can happen, but the new Speaker of the House recessed the House until February 28th, so there will be no official business until that date and after.
Mluvčí 13:  It is also, I think, clear that the administration remains committed.
Mluvčí 13: About half of the Republicans in the Senate remain committed.
Mluvčí 13: So one way or another, we will see additional funding.
Mluvčí 13: But I want to make a broader point, because I think what you've heard from the prime ministers today is very historically important.
Mluvčí 13: And I want to underscore that.
Mluvčí 13:  Part of it is a recognition of the threat to Ukraine being a threat to Europe, a threat to the transatlantic alliance.
Mluvčí 13: But part of it is also a recognition that there has to be a commitment by European nations and the EU to do more to defend themselves.
Mluvčí 13: And I would argue that if we look at Ukraine right now,
Mluvčí 13:  We need to be looking at the battle space, the cyber space, and the head space.
Mluvčí 13: The battle space needs, as Prime Minister Fredrickson said, more speed and scale.
Mluvčí 13: So finding those munitions wherever they can be found.
Mluvčí 13: Stopping shipping to others in order to ship to Ukraine.
Mluvčí 13: Looking for new production capacities.
Mluvčí 13: Working with Ukraine to increase domestic capacity.
Mluvčí 13:  All of that has to be done and there also has to be a recognition that whatever reasons there were initially to withhold longer range artillery and more air support,
Mluvčí 13:  is no longer in any way relevant to the battle space and to the future of this conflict and what it means for all of us.
Mluvčí 13: So whatever hesitancy there was, I think reality should have overcome it.
Mluvčí 13: And we need to do much more, much more quickly, and I certainly think that's true for the United States as well.
Mluvčí 13:  And, you know, I see some people that I had the privilege of working with in the Obama administration, like former General Petraeus here, and I think part of our message has to be to our own government, get more creative.
Mluvčí 13: Get much more in the pipeline more quickly.
Mluvčí 13: Because part of it is the delay between passing legislation and appropriation and actually getting things out the door.
Mluvčí 13:  Cyberspace, there has begun to be a recognition that this is also a battlefield.
Mluvčí 13: And we need to be much more creative.
Mluvčí 13: The Ukrainians have been extraordinarily ingenious, but there needs to be much more help given to them.
Mluvčí 13: And the cyberspace is not just a military space.
Mluvčí 13: It is an influence space.
Mluvčí 13:  And we see an extraordinary effort by the Russians, a successful effort, I believe, to influence minds, to affect political decision-making, to make it difficult for leaders in Bulgaria and elsewhere to really convince populations because they're getting so many other messages through social media and other sources about what Russia is really doing and meaning
Mluvčí 13:  that runs counter to the warnings and the threats that we should be communicating.
Mluvčí 13: So that leaves the headspace.
Mluvčí 13: And I think it's absolutely important to be realistic and maybe to go from being too optimistic to less optimistic, but not to in any way seed that headspace where we have to do a much better job of
Mluvčí 13:  convincing ourselves, convincing our countries, our governments, that we have to stand with Ukraine and make sure that they do win.
Mluvčí 13: And it's going to be critical that we do that in a series of ways, including not just government actions and rhetoric, but also being smarter about the influence side of this ongoing conflict.
Mluvčí 13:  I'll just end by saying, you know, Russia has been a master of active measures for a very long time.
Mluvčí 13: Their propaganda was quite successful in recent years in a number of arenas, one of which I know very well, and I think it's important that we recognize we can't just assume that
Mluvčí 13:  That is an area that they are going to dominate without giving them a fight.
Mluvčí 13: And we are not even in the same arena.
Mluvčí 13: They are influencing Africa, Asia, Latin America.
Mluvčí 13: Their message about what this war is about, who the aggressor is, what the consequences are, is going unanswered.
Mluvčí 13: And it's mostly being waged on social media.
Mluvčí 13:  Finally, I just saw an analysis of what's on TikTok.
Mluvčí 13: And remember, TikTok is easily influenced by the Chinese government.
Mluvčí 13: So they may not be providing as much physical material, but they're certainly providing intellectual influence.
Mluvčí 13:  If you look at and analyze content on TikTok, it is about a 50 to 1 ratio, pro-Russia versus anti-Ukraine.
Mluvčí 13:  Where are we?
Mluvčí 13: What are we doing?
Mluvčí 13: Why are we not engaged in that battle space, that cyber space, that head space?
Mluvčí 13: So I think European leaders have really stepped up.
Mluvčí 13: And I think eventually the American House of Representatives will as well.
Mluvčí 13: But we have a long struggle ahead of us.
Mluvčí 13: And the obvious point to make about Donald Trump is take him literally and seriously.
Mluvčí 13:  He means what he says.
Mluvčí 13: People did not take him literally and seriously in 2016.
Mluvčí 13: Now he is telling us what he intends to do.
Mluvčí 13: And people who try to wish it away, brush it away, are living in an alternative reality.
Mluvčí 13: He will do everything he can to become a
Mluvčí 13:  an absolute authoritarian leader if given the opportunity to do so.
Mluvčí 13: And he will pull us out of NATO even though the Congress passed a resolution saying that he couldn't without congressional support because he will just not fund our obligations.
Mluvčí 13: So we may be there, you know, in name only.
Mluvčí 13: So take it very seriously and continue to do what Europe needs to do on its own.
Mluvčí 03:  So that is a sobering... Thank you.
Mluvčí 03: Thank you, Secretary.
Mluvčí 03: That is...
Mluvčí 03:  That is a sobering point to turn to you, Andrei Yermak, head of the Office of the President of Ukraine.
Mluvčí 03: Two questions for you.
Mluvčí 03: The first is give us a sense of just how much pressure you are under for lack of ammunition.
Mluvčí 03: Give us a short-term sense of the stakes.
Mluvčí 03: And secondly, perhaps you could tell me how you are planning, given what we've just heard from Secretary Clinton and given what the US polls tell us, which is if the election was today,
Mluvčí 03:  fairly likely that President Trump would win.
Mluvčí 03: This is a very real probability that needs to be thought about.
Mluvčí 03: How do you think about it?
Mluvčí 03: It could happen in less than a year.
Mluvčí 17:  Works, works, yeah.
Mluvčí 17: First of all, thank you very much.
Mluvčí 17: I'm very, first of all, for me, big honor to be here now and to see a lot of very big friends of Ukraine, who is the great leaders and the great people who support Ukraine and stand with Ukraine from the very beginning of this unprovoked invasion from Russia.
Mluvčí 17:  First of all, thank you very much for your support and help.
Mluvčí 17: Thank you for your questions.
Mluvčí 17: Yes, it's a critically important time.
Mluvčí 17:  Very optimistic about the decisions of the House and the continue for the support of United States.
Mluvčí 17: But time, it's very critical.
Mluvčí 17: And you can see what happened now in Avdiivka.
Mluvčí 17: You can see what happened in the old front line.
Mluvčí 17:  Our heroes, standard our heroes fighting, but it's impossible to do without enough ammunitions, enough weapons, enough air defense, and this is
Mluvčí 17:  It's very important that everything will be in time.
Mluvčí 17: This is not the questions of some just political issue.
Mluvčí 17: It's the questions of our surviving.
Mluvčí 17: It's the questions of our future victory.
Mluvčí 17: But I want to give some optimistic things because the reality is following.
Mluvčí 17:  I want to ask you a little bit back two years ago to Munich.
Mluvčí 17: And I remember the feelings of the people who is listen our President Vladimir Zelensky here.
Mluvčí 17: First of all, a lot of people recommended to him to not come.
Mluvčí 17:  and look and listen him and probably not believe for 100% that it will be reality that we not give to Putin to occupy all the Ukraines.
Mluvčí 17: We can show that we can not just defend our lands, but we already liberated about 50%.
Mluvčí 17:  what was occupied from 24th of the 2020.
Mluvčí 17: I think Ukraine nations show that we able to win this war.
Mluvčí 17: It's time to not just talking about possible, not possible.
Mluvčí 17: It's time to help us to win.
Mluvčí 17: About your second questions.
Mluvčí 17:  You know, very important, we know, because you know, the President Zelensky visited to Washington in the December of the last year before it was visit of together with our speaker and the first Deputy Prime Minister.
Mluvčí 17: We back the feelings of the very strong bipartisan support.
Mluvčí 17:  And what is very much important, that we feel how support by the American people.
Mluvčí 17: Because American people clearly understand that for what Williams we are fighting.
Mluvčí 17:  And yesterday's tragedy, the murder of Alexei Navalny, maybe to open the eyes just for some skeptical people in the world, what is Russia today?
Mluvčí 17: Who is Putin?
Mluvčí 17:  It's impossible, you know, I will listen, especially during the meetings of the national security advisors of the peaceful formula of the President Zelensky, we are listened, especially from global South country, why you're not sitting to the table with Russia, why you don't negotiate, I think.
Mluvčí 17:  what happened yesterday, what happened two years ago, maybe it's enough to think that this Russia, this Putin, it's possible to negotiate and to trust them.
Mluvčí 17: And I hope, I believe that this support of American people will be
Mluvčí 17:  push some politics who maybe hesitate and not understand that this aid, for us, it's very urgent.
Mluvčí 17: And this is a very critical thing.
Mluvčí 03:  Maybe, except that it is worth remembering what Secretary Clinton said, that Donald Trump should be taken seriously.
Mluvčí 03: And he has said that he would make peace in 24 hours, which everyone assumes, I think rightly, is peace at your expense.
Mluvčí 03: Do not, you must be thinking about this.
Mluvčí 03: So how do you, this is not a tiny negligible prospect.
Mluvčí 17:  You know, I repeat, I'd like to repeat the great answer to the practically same questions which our president received today in the morning.
Mluvčí 17: And he answered that if President Donald Trump decided to come to Ukraine, I'm ready to go with him to the front line.
Mluvčí 17:  and he personally see what happened and maybe it will give to him the real understanding because I absolutely sure the people who is personally and many of the leaders personally not one times visited to Ukraine during these two years
Mluvčí 17:  I don't know a person who personally visited and go to Kharkiv, go to Bucha, go to Odessa, back to the home and not be sure for 100% what is necessary to support Ukraine, what is possible to believe that Ukrainians able to win this war.
Mluvčí 03:  Thank you.
Mluvčí 17: Thank you.
Mluvčí 03: Can I now turn to General Petraeus to you?
Mluvčí 03: You spoke, I remember it vividly, two years ago on this panel and you said the question you had was would Ukrainians fight and that question has been very powerfully answered.
Mluvčí 03: Now, could you give us your assessment of
Mluvčí 03:  What is at stake in the short term in terms of the weaponry crunch?
Mluvčí 03: What can be done if the supplemental is not passed?
Mluvčí 03: How pessimistic, optimistic are you on the battlefield in the next few months?
Mluvčí 12:  Well, thanks very much.
Mluvčí 12: And thanks, Victor, as always, for pulling us all together for the crucial issue of the day, frankly.
Mluvčí 12: And Madam Secretary, thanks for such a powerful statement really on behalf of the country and really on behalf of reality.
Mluvčí 12: You can see, by the way, why I was so privileged to have her as a great supporter at the Situation Room table when I was in uniform and then at the CIA.
Mluvčí 12:  Look, I first want to say that when we think back to last year, I think, Victor, you characterized it beautifully where you said the first year we underestimated the Ukrainians, the second year we underestimated the enemy.
Mluvčí 12: The truth is what we also underestimated was the slow pace of decisions.
Mluvčí 12: The optimism, if you will, last year was qualified.
Mluvčí 12:  It was based on expectations that the U.S.
Mluvčí 12: decision on tanks, on longer-range precision munitions, on improved conventional munitions, cluster munitions, on Western aircraft, all of these were—many more, by the way—were delayed far, far too long, MLRS at the beginning and so on.
Mluvčí 12:  And it wasn't just that, again, there was an underestimation of the formidable Russian defenses and so forth.
Mluvčí 12: It was that we didn't put in the hands of the Ukrainian soldiers what they really needed at the time that they most needed it.
Mluvčí 12: And we lost an opportunity as a result of that.
Mluvčí 12: So Madam Secretary, when you say
Mluvčí 12:  Again, we should learn from this.
Mluvčí 12: There should not be this hesitation, this almost self-deterrence that we have experienced over the years.
Mluvčí 12: This is a really important moment.
Mluvčí 12: Look, if this doesn't come through – I just did a piece for foreign policy, actually, and they asked me, what do you see for what lies ahead in Ukraine?
Mluvčí 12: And the title of the piece is It Depends.
Mluvčí 12:  It depends most importantly, obviously, on how quickly and how much the U.S.
Mluvčí 12: provides to Ukraine.
Mluvčí 12: That is what hangs over all of this.
Mluvčí 12: It depends on how the European leaders in their countries do what has been described up here.
Mluvčí 12: My old military colleague, now president, I think captured that beautifully.
Mluvčí 12:  It also depends, frankly, though, you know, Andrei, on the ability of Ukraine to generate additional forces.
Mluvčí 12: We all know in the Rada there's a very, very difficult decision that has to be taken on whether or not this conscription age will be lowered, how you'll be able to generate forces, and of course, keeping in mind that the enemy has three times the population of Ukraine, an economy that's probably 10 times.
Mluvčí 12: So, and we can list a number of others.
Mluvčí 12: It depends on the pace of technology acquisition.
Mluvčí 12:  Not just what we give Ukraine, but what Ukraine does.
Mluvčí 12: By the way, we should not overlook the enormous success of the past six or eight months that has taken place in the Black Sea.
Mluvčí 12: Who's achieved that?
Mluvčí 12: The Ukrainians did this.
Mluvčí 12: It is their maritime drones that have done this.
Mluvčí 12: The port of Sevastopol in occupied Crimea has had a Russian Black Sea fleet for centuries.
Mluvčí 12:  the bulk of it is no longer there.
Mluvčí 12: It's been forced to withdraw by what the Ukrainians have done there and then also what they've done at sea.
Mluvčí 12: Some of the stuff at sea has been helped by countries providing longer-range merit anti-ship missiles and so forth, but a lot of it is, again, produced by Ukraine.
Mluvčí 12: So that's another huge factor.
Mluvčí 12: And when you said, Madam Secretary, we should be providing to Ukraine everything we can in that regard,
Mluvčí 12:  to help them with the incredible engineering, IT skills, weapons manufacturing, and so forth, that's another crucial element.
Mluvčí 12: So I think, you know, I used to be asked when I was commanding the surge in Iraq, are you an optimist or a pessimist?
Mluvčí 12: And I would say I'm neither.
Mluvčí 12: I am a realist, and the reality is that it's all hard all the time, but hard is not hopeless.
Mluvčí 12: And I think that actually characterizes the situation right now, but it depends.
Mluvčí 03:  Thank you.
Mluvčí 03: I have a long list of eminent Western politicians who would like to speak, and you will all get to speak, but I think at this moment I would like to hear some Ukrainian heroes speak.
Mluvčí 03: And I'd like to hear from you what it is that you need and the urgency with which you need it.
Mluvčí 03: And maybe we could start with Oleksandr Batalov, who is a gunner medic from the Ukrainian Armed Forces, is he here?
Mluvčí 03:  Oh, you need to put your headsets on for this.
Mluvčí 09: Good afternoon to everyone.
Mluvčí 09: My name is Alexander Batalov.
Mluvčí 09: I'm the soldier of the Ukrainian Armed Forces.
Mluvčí 09: Yes, I'll wait for that.
Mluvčí 16: Go ahead.
Mluvčí 09:  Yes, my name is Alexander Batalov.
Mluvčí 09: I'm the soldier of the Ukrainian Armed Forces.
Mluvčí 09: In the civil life, I was doing massage.
Mluvčí 09: I was working.
Mluvčí 09: I was very happy for my country and my family.
Mluvčí 09: I was traveling a lot.
Mluvčí 09:  When the war came, I joined the armed forces, and until now I'm in the army and I'm fighting and defending our country a bit on a different front now.
Mluvčí 09: I received trauma in Bakhmut.
Mluvčí 09: We were trying to clean up the little forest where our enemy was.
Mluvčí 09: During that assault, we were covered by the Russian enemy artillery.
Mluvčí 09:  And I was wounded.
Mluvčí 09: Six and a half hours I was on the battlefield, but they couldn't evacuate me, because the vehicles couldn't come there, because our enemies adjust very well when they see us.
Mluvčí 09: They start hitting us very hard, and they don't allow us even to take our wounded from the field.
Mluvčí 09: But six and a half hours is a lot.
Mluvčí 09:  for an ordinary person just to lie there.
Mluvčí 09: But with the wound, that's almost unrealistic.
Mluvčí 09: But the only thought that kept me alive and conscious at that time was my wife that I saw in my eyes, in my thoughts, and I felt that she was waiting for me.
Mluvčí 09: And that's how
Mluvčí 09:  Every family and every wife and every mother and sister is waiting for our soldiers.
Mluvčí 09: So we know what we are fighting for.
Mluvčí 09: We are fighting for the freedom of our country, for the freedom of our wives, brothers and sisters and children, for us to be free.
Mluvčí 09:  Breathe freely, walk freely like we do here in Munich.
Mluvčí 09: We were walking here on the streets a little bit and we want to bring this spirit of freedom back.
Mluvčí 09: When you don't think about the air raid alert and you have to go to the shelter because something can fly in.
Mluvčí 09: So because of your support, because of your weaponry, we'll be able to do it faster.
Mluvčí 09:  We'll be able to do so that your children, your soldiers do not suffer as we do, so that we wouldn't have to buy expensive artificial limbs and walk on them the rest of our lives.
Mluvčí 09: By helping us with your contemporary weapons, you are making the step towards a peaceful life in your countries, towards the peaceful
Mluvčí 09:  journeys and traveling and peaceful sleep in your country.
Mluvčí 09: So if you get in on a global level and if you give it all the needed resources and you will help us to make a big, strong blow, we will make it.
Mluvčí 09: And you will be breathing freely in our respective territories.
Mluvčí 09: Slava Ukrainiu.
Mluvčí 03: Thank you.
Mluvčí 03: Thank you.
Mluvčí 03: Thank you very much.
Mluvčí 03: Could we now also hear from Khlyb Strishko, the head of the Veterans Hub in Kiev?
Mluvčí 09:  Good afternoon.
Mluvčí 09: My name is Gleb.
Mluvčí 09: My last name is Trishko.
Mluvčí 09: I'm the Marine.
Mluvčí 09: Right now, I'm also a veteran.
Mluvčí 09: It has happened so when the war started in my country in 2014, I was back at school.
Mluvčí 09: I was graduating from grade 11 at that time, was simply actively participating in the revolution of dignity in Maidan.
Mluvčí 09: And for me, this was something
Mluvčí 09:  unfathomable.
Mluvčí 09: And when the annexation of Crimea started in February, then anti-terrorist organisation started, my senior, my elder brother, who was a soldier, he went to the front line.
Mluvčí 09: My father, we have many children in the family, he had the right not to serve at first.
Mluvčí 09: He was denied mobilisation, but he wrote the letter to the ministry
Mluvčí 09:  Minister of Defence, and he was allowed, based on his constitutional rights, to go to the army.
Mluvčí 09: And starting from 2014, I was close to the war, but because I was only 17, I couldn't join the armed forces.
Mluvčí 09: So I was studying in the university.
Mluvčí 09: My brother kept saying that he gives me the opportunity to study, and that, for me, was extremely
Mluvčí 09:  valuable.
Mluvčí 09: And as time went by, after graduation, I started working in the Ukrainian Academy of Leadership with Ukrainian youth, and I was working in the city of Mykolaiv at that time.
Mluvčí 09: That had the largest military presence at that time.
Mluvčí 09: It had lots of aviation coming from Crimea, lots of marines.
Mluvčí 09:  And I was happy with the motto, Semper Fidelis, which says, always true, always.
Mluvčí 09: And I thought that I wanted to join them on the 21st.
Mluvčí 09:  I've signed the contract, and the one year before the full-fledged war, I was sworn in, and I was a dreamer, because at the age of 25, I got my biggest goal, my biggest value of serving Ukraine, the possibility to fight for Ukraine with arms in my hands.
Mluvčí 09: Because I think many of you have heard the slogan, Ukraine above all.
Mluvčí 09: And it just happened so that for me, it's not just a slogan, but the way of life.
Mluvčí 09:  And in the beginning of the full-fledged war, for three months I was already in the United Armed Forces near the city of Mariupol, and there in the trenches to the north of Mariupol I met the first days of the full-fledged war.
Mluvčí 09: And I understood at that time that I'm not going to call my relatives because we were told to switch off the telephones.
Mluvčí 09: I understood that my elder brother
Mluvčí 09:  my father are fighting as well, and it's not time to be bothered with me, and I didn't have time to be bothered with them.
Mluvčí 09: So I had six soldiers that I had in charge of, six marines, and I had one agenda, war agenda in front of me.
Mluvčí 09: Then after two weeks, for the first time, I called my brother, and I heard probably the most valuable words from him that
Mluvčí 09:  that he is proud not only of me as a brother, but also as a soldier, and I laughed, and after that we got disconnected.
Mluvčí 03: In the beginning of April, when
Mluvčí 09:  The siege was almost locked, and more and more Russians attacked.
Mluvčí 09: I was wounded.
Mluvčí 09: I remember even now the building where I was, the aviation bomb flew in, and I also flew out of the third floor, and I was then buried by all this rubble, and I thought that I would die there in my
Mluvčí 09:  25 years of age, not in some epic battle, but there.
Mluvčí 09: And then I got dug out by my friends.
Mluvčí 09: My pelvis was completely destroyed.
Mluvčí 09: My jaw was broken.
Mluvčí 09: My nose was broken.
Mluvčí 09: My ballistic eyes were glued into my eyes.
Mluvčí 09: I didn't see anything.
Mluvčí 09: Only the helmet saved my head because it's cracked.
Mluvčí 09:  And in that condition, my soldiers took me out.
Mluvčí 09: They gave me the first aid, and they brought me to the basement on the neighboring building.
Mluvčí 09: And in the corner of that building also another bomb hit, and part of it fell down, and two of my comrades were under arrears.
Mluvčí 09: And then my combat medic said, this is the second bomb in 10 minutes, so you'll have to survive then.
Mluvčí 09:  And this is what I kept reminding myself when I was in Mariupol.
Mluvčí 09: And then later, after I got wounded, just to keep me alive, I was given as a prisoner of war.
Mluvčí 09: And for 17 days, I wasn't assisted.
Mluvčí 09: I was transported through the occupied cities in Donetsk Oblast, then to Taganrog.
Mluvčí 09:  than by plane to the occupied Crimea in captivity.
Mluvčí 09: And after I was exchanged, I continued dreaming because the dream about my life came true.
Mluvčí 09: I started dreaming about learning to walk because I wasn't given any forecasts that I will walk once again.
Mluvčí 09: And the fact that I'm standing is already a miracle.
Mluvčí 09: In my pelvis, we have two
Mluvčí 09:  tie tenon rods that help me to walk.
Mluvčí 09: In my jaws I have a lot of tie-down and metal.
Mluvčí 09: I just wear brackets just to keep my teeth.
Mluvčí 09: I don't even see the end of this hole because I look with my one eye because Russians were not helping me with the second eye.
Mluvčí 09: But I keep dreaming and I dream about the good, honest and calm life in Ukraine.
Mluvčí 09: And right now for this dream I have a dog.
Mluvčí 09:  I have a girlfriend, she's also a soldier, and she wished me all the best when I will say this, because I always dreamed for the war to ultimately finish, and for me just to have a dog, to have a girlfriend who will become my wife, we will have children, we will have a house, and I will be able to live calmly without reacting to the air raid alarms.
Mluvčí 09:  And in this hall, we have a lot of dreamers, too.
Mluvčí 09: And I want you to help us to make these dreams come true, because my foreign minister, Dmitry Kuleba, recently said that it is time to be pacifist, and there are times to be pacifist with arms.
Mluvčí 09: And I want to be a pacifist and a dreamer with arms.
Mluvčí 09: So please help me to make my dream come true.
Mluvčí 03:  Thank you.
Mluvčí 03: Thank you.
Mluvčí 03: And I'd like to hear from one more, Yulia Pajewska.
Mluvčí 11: I will speak in Ukrainian.
Mluvčí 11:  I will speak Ukrainian.
Mluvčí 10: My English is not perfect enough, so I would not want to torture you.
Mluvčí 11: Gleb told about his dog.
Mluvčí 11: I think of myself as a dog often.
Mluvčí 10:  I understand everything, but I can say very limited thoughts.
Mluvčí 10: Everyone you see in this room, we are the dogs of war.
Mluvčí 10: You see us in uniform as dogs of war.
Mluvčí 10:  These recent years, we dedicated to defend our land.
Mluvčí 10: My brothers in arms are moving out of Avdiivka right now, but some are left there forever.
Mluvčí 10: Many, many brothers and sisters in arms over these 10 years of war that I've been fighting.
Mluvčí 11:  I started at Maidan.
Mluvčí 10: I'm a medic at Maidan.
Mluvčí 10: Then I was teaching tactical medicine, and I stayed at the front because I understood that's where I need to provide my best help.
Mluvčí 10: And then since that time until I was captured in Mariupol, I was at the front.
Mluvčí 10:  Battalion of medics, I also was the chief medic at Mariupol Military Hospital that is now occupied by Russians.
Mluvčí 10: I was there when Mariupol was sieged.
Mluvčí 10: I saw this city, formerly home, to half a million, destroyed by 90 percent.
Mluvčí 10:  I see high rises with graves of children in the courtyards, mothers burying their babies.
Mluvčí 11: Imagine.
Mluvčí 10: I had children die in my hands, civilians, elderly.
Mluvčí 11: I don't know how you can forgive that.
Mluvčí 10:  Thousands of soldiers have gone through my hands, thousands of civilians, streams of blood, the rivers of suffering.
Mluvčí 11: I can only try to explain things that I feel, but words do not help.
Mluvčí 10:  We're the dogs of war.
Mluvčí 10: We made commitment to our people.
Mluvčí 10: We swore the oath, and we fight.
Mluvčí 10: This is a great honor.
Mluvčí 10: Only at war I understood what is the highest value, to give up your life, to dedicate your life to something that you love the most.
Mluvčí 10: I love my nation.
Mluvčí 10:  I pray that none of you and that your children would not be forced to defend your own land.
Mluvčí 11: Just because Russians would decide that they have right to your land.
Mluvčí 10: I was in captivity for three months.
Mluvčí 10:  I don't know how I could tell you about that.
Mluvčí 10: I'm here before you.
Mluvčí 10: It's two years, almost two years since my captivity.
Mluvčí 10: I had six surgeries after the captivity.
Mluvčí 10: Three very serious, three just normal ones.
Mluvčí 10: I will survive.
Mluvčí 10:  Six surgeries.
Mluvčí 10: There is not an injured point in my body, okay?
Mluvčí 10: But that's not about me.
Mluvčí 10: It's about those who remain in captivity for two years, being tortured every day, being beaten every day.
Mluvčí 10:  That humiliation, I don't know what torture is worse, physical or psychological.
Mluvčí 11: God forbid for you to experience that.
Mluvčí 11: War, you know, it drinks our blood.
Mluvčí 10:  never satisfied with our blood.
Mluvčí 10: It's always hungry.
Mluvčí 10: The more you give, the more she wants.
Mluvčí 11: We need to stop that.
Mluvčí 11: To stop the war, we need to kill the war.
Mluvčí 11: Give us weapons to murder the war.
Mluvčí 11: We will manage, just help us a little bit.
Mluvčí 11: Thank you.
Mluvčí 03:  Thank you.
Mluvčí 03: Thank you.
Mluvčí 03: Thank you, Julia.
Mluvčí 03: Thank you to all of you.
Mluvčí 03: Thank you for...
Mluvčí 03:  your heroism and thank you for reminding us in the most powerful way of what is at stake here.
Mluvčí 03: It is going to be hard for anybody to speak after this.
Mluvčí 03: But I think it is time perhaps to get a sense of historical perspective before we go back to the politicians of today.
Mluvčí 03: So briefly, we have two eminent historians here.
Mluvčí 03: You know them both well.
Mluvčí 03:  maybe Timothy Snyder, I could start with you, and you could try and give us some context to make sense of just what we've heard and where you see where we are now, two years in, and put the stakes and put the fight that Ukraine is involved in into that broader context.
Mluvčí 19:  I'll try.
Mluvčí 19: The first thing I want to say is that we have to do our part to connect to the people on the ground.
Mluvčí 19: This is a very strange war in which the people of only one country
Mluvčí 19:  are doing the fighting.
Mluvčí 19: This is a war with international implications, not just for Europe and North America, but for Asia.
Mluvčí 19: It's in many ways a world war, but it's a world war in which only one country is doing the resisting.
Mluvčí 19: In a strange way, because they've resisted so well, they're alone.
Mluvčí 19:  They've lasted so long, and therefore they're alone.
Mluvčí 19: When you ask for a historical comparison, I think of 1938 or 1939.
Mluvčí 19: Poland held off the Wehrmacht for a while, longer than people remember at great losses, but it was a matter of weeks, not years, and so others had to come in.
Mluvčí 19: Because the Ukrainians have resisted so well, no one else has had to fight yet.
Mluvčí 19:  And so I don't think we appreciate how much they are doing for us and that therefore our duty has to be to bring the things to them that they need.
Mluvčí 19: It's shocking, given our economic preponderance, and this is my second point, how slowly we have mobilized that.
Mluvčí 19:  It's a mistake of the 21st century to think that economic preponderance automatically leads to some kind of victory.
Mluvčí 19: You have to find creatively the ways to move that economical preponderance onto the battlefield, and we have not been creative enough about that, and we have not been quick enough about that.
Mluvčí 19: If we compare what we have done
Mluvčí 19:  with all due respect to the leaders of my own country and European friends, if we compare it to all the improvisations, all of the workarounds that Roosevelt found or Churchill found, we're not up to that standard.
Mluvčí 19: And that's the standard that we have to hold ourselves up to.
Mluvčí 19:  The next point that I want to make, which I think is very important, is this idea of the spirit of freedom, that this is all one struggle.
Mluvčí 19: When Secretary Clinton speaks of cyber war, this is an example of how what the Ukrainians are doing is part of one struggle, which affects all of us.
Mluvčí 19: They're just doing 10,000 times more than everyone else.
Mluvčí 19: But it's nevertheless one struggle.
Mluvčí 19:  We can't do without the category of victory, right?
Mluvčí 19: Last thing.
Mluvčí 19: Secretary Clinton used the word victory.
Mluvčí 19: Mr. Yedemak talked about winning.
Mluvčí 19: You don't always win wars.
Mluvčí 19:  But you never win them unless you set victory as the goal.
Mluvčí 19: We have to set victory as the goal.
Mluvčí 19: In 2024, the Europeans have to help the Ukrainians hold the line, with or without the Americans.
Mluvčí 19: I'm optimistic about March.
Mluvčí 19: I'm optimistic about November.
Mluvčí 19: But with or without the Americans, the word that we all have to use is victory.
Mluvčí 19: If we don't set that as the goal, it's not clear what we have to do in the meantime.
Mluvčí 19: Thank you.
Mluvčí 03: Thank you.
Mluvčí 03:  Neil Ferguson, and then after that Ann Applebaum.
Mluvčí 03: Neil, you have looked at the grand sweep of many conflicts.
Mluvčí 03: Put your perspective on this.
Mluvčí 08: Well, Zannie and everybody, Victor, the challenge is to convince certain people and politicians that this is
Mluvčí 08:  as dire a need as Julia just described.
Mluvčí 08: And that is a challenge.
Mluvčí 08: Think of the recent polling from the United States, which shows that only a small and dwindling minority of Republican voters think the United States is not doing enough.
Mluvčí 08:  There's still a significant number who think it's doing enough, and then there is a proportion that think it's doing too much.
Mluvčí 08: But it's not only Americans.
Mluvčí 08: Sometimes one comes to the Munich Security Conference and feels as if it's all America's fault.
Mluvčí 08: It's also Germans.
Mluvčí 08: How do you persuade German voters and politicians that a debt break makes any sense at all when the defense budget
Mluvčí 08:  is less than 2% of gross domestic product, which, as my good friends at the Kiel Institute show, is historically a ludicrously low percentage.
Mluvčí 08: It's lower than was imposed on Germany under the Treaty of Versailles, for God's sake.
Mluvčí 08: The arguments against increased defense spending in Europe are laughable.
Mluvčí 08: They're laughable economically.
Mluvčí 08: Because defense spending is insurance.
Mluvčí 08:  Defense spending is investment, it's not consumption.
Mluvčí 08: Germany could have a world-class defense industry and a world-class army if it chose to.
Mluvčí 08: And I would have thought the imperative is rather more compelling than for voters in the swing states of the United States given the proximity of this conflict.
Mluvčí 08: So how do we do that?
Mluvčí 08: Uli, your speech was the most moving thing I've heard at a conference in many years.
Mluvčí 08:  I shall remember we are the dogs of war tonight and for many years to come.
Mluvčí 08: How do we get your message to those people, those voters and those politicians who pander to their laziness?
Mluvčí 08: I think there are two ways.
Mluvčí 08: The first is to say, this is indeed, as Tim Snyder rightly says, a world war already.
Mluvčí 08: It's not just a little war here, a little war there.
Mluvčí 08: These wars are connected.
Mluvčí 08:  Russia, China, Iran, and North Korea are a true axis today, cooperating, colluding to undermine the Western international order, what used to be the Pax Americana.
Mluvčí 08: And they're doing it with increasing effectiveness.
Mluvčí 08:  And there will be other theaters of war.
Mluvčí 08: There already is a theater of war in the Middle East, with the prospect that that will escalate, too.
Mluvčí 08: Before long, there will be a theater of war in the Far East.
Mluvčí 08: That seems almost inevitable.
Mluvčí 08: So we must persuade those Republican voters, those free Democrats, this is a world war, and it affects you one way or another.
Mluvčí 08:  It comes to you.
Mluvčí 08: The dogs of war will not remain in Ukraine.
Mluvčí 08: They will not be confined to Israel.
Mluvčí 08: And the last thing I'll say is, we must help our people imagine those dogs of war.
Mluvčí 08: What I see around me in the United States and in Europe, in Germany, is a colossal failure of imagination.
Mluvčí 08:  It's as if we just can't imagine it happening to us.
Mluvčí 08: We just can't picture it.
Mluvčí 08: As if it never happened to Munich.
Mluvčí 08: As if bombs never rained down on London.
Mluvčí 08: As if American boys were not the dogs of war in the 1940s, in the 1950s in Korea, in the 1960s in Indochina.
Mluvčí 08: Why can't we imagine this?
Mluvčí 08:  I recommend greater imagination.
Mluvčí 08: Let us all try, when we go home, wherever our homes are, to make Julia's dogs of war seem visible to voters, visible to politicians, because these dogs of war are, I'm afraid, dogs of world war.
Mluvčí 08: I'll leave it there.
Mluvčí 03: Thank you.
Mluvčí 03:  One person who has done a huge amount to help us with that imagination, to lay out the threat posed by Vladimir Putin in brilliant prose, both in her books and in her articles, is Anne Applebaum.
Mluvčí 03: Anne, the floor is now yours because you have on so much of this been proved so right.
Mluvčí 14:  Thank you so much.
Mluvčí 14: And let me just first say that I wish I wasn't right.
Mluvčí 14: So thanks for that.
Mluvčí 14: Let me make two points.
Mluvčí 14: One is to echo what Neil just said and what others have said, that it's incorrect right now to think of what we're doing now as fighting a Cold War.
Mluvčí 14: There isn't one block on one side and one block on the other side.
Mluvčí 14:  What we are fighting is a connected group of autocracies who cooperate when it suits them, not always, who have not necessarily anything in common ideologically.
Mluvčí 14: So nationalist Russia, and communist China, and Bolivarian Venezuela, and Cuba, and Iran, theocratic Iran, would not agree about many things.
Mluvčí 14:  The one thing they agree about is that they don't like us.
Mluvčí 14: They don't like the people in this room.
Mluvčí 14: They don't like liberal democracies.
Mluvčí 14: They don't like the rule of law that President Zelensky spoke about this morning.
Mluvčí 14:  This is what they need to destroy.
Mluvčí 14: They need to destroy it firstly in their own countries.
Mluvčí 14: So you saw the death of Alexei Navalny is one of many, you know, one of many crimes that the Russian president has committed to stay in power.
Mluvčí 14: And increasingly they don't like it anywhere else because the existence of Navalny's people and Navalny's friends and Navalny's organizations and people who've been influenced by Navalny in other countries
Mluvčí 14:  can be beamed back into Russia.
Mluvčí 14: So they now understand their concept of the World War is that they are fighting the same set of ideas at home and abroad.
Mluvčí 14: Sometimes it's an ideological conflict, as someone said President Clinton.
Mluvčí 14: Excuse me.
Mluvčí 14:  The person who should have been President Clinton, as Secretary Clinton has just said, sometimes they fight ideologically, sometimes they fight economically, sometimes they fight militarily.
Mluvčí 14: But it's the same kind of fight.
Mluvčí 14: So that's the first point.
Mluvčí 14: The second point is we need to be thinking in the same way.
Mluvčí 14: Look, this war is over when Russia leaves.
Mluvčí 14:  And it doesn't really matter how Russia leaves or why they leave.
Mluvčí 14: They leave because they lose on the battlefield.
Mluvčí 14: They leave because their economy has crashed.
Mluvčí 14: They leave because we've shut down their electricity grid.
Mluvčí 14: I'm just making that up.
Mluvčí 14: And we are not being sufficiently creative about fighting them in all the different ways that they fight us.
Mluvčí 14:  So cyber information, you know, sanctions, you know, in a way sanctions, we've sanctioned lots of things, but we've pursued very few of those sanctions.
Mluvčí 14: We haven't tracked down the trucks that go across the Polish or Lithuanian border into Russia, supposedly going to Kazakhstan.
Mluvčí 14: We haven't, we still aren't treating this war against Russia as if it were our war.
Mluvčí 14: If it were our war,
Mluvčí 14:  It wouldn't be six guys at the Treasury of the United States who are running the sanctions policy.
Mluvčí 14: It would be a team of 1,000 people at the Pentagon.
Mluvčí 14: So that's the way we need to think, and that's how we can win.
Mluvčí 14: Thank you.
Mluvčí 14:  Thank you.
Mluvčí 03: So you've heard now from all of the recent speakers about the failure of imagination and the failure of a sense of scale that in Anne's words, this is our war.
Mluvčí 03: I wanted now to turn, in the last few minutes, we have three foreign ministers here and then I'm going to come back to the panel.
Mluvčí 03: But firstly, Foreign Minister Tobias Bildström, where are you?
Mluvčí 03: The Minister of Foreign Affairs of Sweden.
Mluvčí 03:  What are you going to do to answer the challenge that our eminent historians have just laid out?
Mluvčí 05: Well, thank you very much for raising the bar so high, but I hardly could jump over it in those few minutes that have been allowed to me.
Mluvčí 05: I will just start by saying thank you to all the ones who have taken the floor before me, most notably the people from Ukraine, who we follow your struggle every day.
Mluvčí 05:  I would just like to say very briefly the following.
Mluvčí 05: As everybody has said, the ramifications of Russia's war on Ukraine, well, they reverberate globally.
Mluvčí 05: They impact economies, trade, the livelihoods of millions, and also the exacerbating food insecurity, which is also something we should talk about.
Mluvčí 05:  And I think that when we look at this, with every passing day, Russia's atrocities and destruction of Ukraine continues.
Mluvčí 05: And the Kremlin consistently, as has been said by many, is trying to gain the upper hand through its larger population, its industrial capacity, its disregard for human suffering.
Mluvčí 05: And this strategy could succeed, as many have said,
Mluvčí 05:  and talked about if the Western support were to decrease.
Mluvčí 05: So our response must continue to be strong, determined, making sure that the Russian defeat is the only possible endgame in this.
Mluvčí 05:  And together with our transatlantic partners, NATO, the global allies, we have stood united in our support for Ukraine.
Mluvčí 05: And this unity is the key to help Ukraine beat back the aggressor.
Mluvčí 05: Now, I'm not going to go through all the things I have been
Mluvčí 05:  given by my excellent staff.
Mluvčí 05: I'm just going to be very brief about this.
Mluvčí 05: We are joining NATO.
Mluvčí 05: Sweden is doing that, hopefully in just a few weeks' time.
Mluvčí 05: We're making the largest shift, the greatest shift for 200 years, leaving behind the history of being a non-military-aligned country.
Mluvčí 05: And we're doing this exactly for the reason, Neil, which you were talking about, namely that we understand what could happen
Mluvčí 05:  if we don't increase our security and our safety.
Mluvčí 05: And what's going on in Ukraine is a clear message to all of us that we need to take security first hand.
Mluvčí 05: We have to put it above all other priorities.
Mluvčí 05: And that means doing all that the panel spoke about, increasing the production of ammunition,
Mluvčí 05:  but more importantly, giving Ukraine what we already have.
Mluvčí 05: That is the most important thing at hand right now.
Mluvčí 05: And that is a call to all of us in this room.
Mluvčí 05: Thank you.
Mluvčí 03: Thank you.
Mluvčí 03: Espen Eide, Foreign Minister of Norway, very briefly.
Mluvčí 03: He's right there.
Mluvčí 03: We need a microphone for the...
Mluvčí 03:  It's on your left.
Mluvčí 02: All right.
Mluvčí 02: Thank you.
Mluvčí 02: I'll be very quick because I know we're almost out of time.
Mluvčí 02: But first, thank you to all the speakers and particularly my tribute to all the Ukrainians here.
Mluvčí 02: It's your cause, but it's also our cause.
Mluvčí 02: And we have been communicating very consistently that your battle is our battle and your victory is our victory.
Mluvčí 02: And if there wasn't a victory, it's also our very strategic severe problem, which is why we want you to succeed.
Mluvčí 02:  What Norway has done is to come up early with one of the largest long-term program, the Nansen program, and I'm very happy to see that this is now being, you know, it influenced also other countries.
Mluvčí 02: Denmark is doing something very similar.
Mluvčí 02: The EU now come up with a long-term plan, and I think what was particularly important is not only that it's a lot of money, that it's flexible, and that it's military and civilian, but the fact that it has been adapted for five years, so Ukraine knows that this will continue come what may.
Mluvčí 02:  And I think it's important to understand the importance today of this long-term commitment.
Mluvčí 02: But we also have learned in the way that we need to do better today.
Mluvčí 02: And none of us are doing enough.
Mluvčí 02: And I think I just want to add my voice to all those saying that we have to ramp up artillery production.
Mluvčí 02: We have to recognize that although Ukraine now has better equipment, better weapon, better intelligence support and much higher morale, Russia has an advantage of volume, so more people
Mluvčí 02:  worse training, but more people, not so advanced equipment, but more of it.
Mluvčí 02: And we need to do something to compensate of that right now.
Mluvčí 02: And this is very much a message coming out of this meeting, that the practical thing we have to do is to be able to produce more weapons, more munitions simultaneously.
Mluvčí 02: Because so far, if you add another billion and say, please get me ammunition, they will put it
Mluvčí 02:  after the current production in the production train.
Mluvčí 02: And that has to be changed.
Mluvčí 02: So that's my message number one.
Mluvčí 02: And the other one is that that commitment is not only to Ukraine until they win the war, but also beyond that, because we also have to prepare now for helping Ukraine, an independent, sovereign, free, democratic Ukraine to become a true member of our
Mluvčí 02:  Western Euro-Atlantic structures so that they will not only prevail in war, but also prevail in peace.
Mluvčí 02: And this is a call to everyone here.
Mluvčí 02: And we need to do more.
Mluvčí 02: None of us, we are doing a lot, but we need to do more.
Mluvčí 02: And we all have to inspire each other to really understand that the cause of these fantastic men and women that we've heard is also our cause.
Mluvčí 02: Thank you.
Mluvčí 03: Thank you very much.
Mluvčí 03: The last word before I go back to the panel, Radek Sikorski, you also have
Mluvčí 03:  loudly made the case for a long time.
Mluvčí 03: You have warned of the dangers of Vladimir Putin.
Mluvčí 03: You have been to the front many times.
Mluvčí 03: You are now foreign minister.
Mluvčí 03: Give us a sense of how you would respond to Neil Ferguson's challenge that, you know, we just haven't had the imagination yet.
Mluvčí 03: What needs to happen?
Mluvčí 03: What concretely?
Mluvčí 03: And then I'm going to come back to leave a challenge here for your heads of state and leaders.
Mluvčí 03: What do you want to see concretely now to really change things?
Mluvčí 03:  You need a mic, yes.
Mluvčí 03: A mic for Foreign Minister Sikorski.
Mluvčí 04: We could probably hear you, but... I don't think it's a problem in my part of the world.
Mluvčí 04: We've been warning about this for years.
Mluvčí 04:  And when I talk to colleagues from the Polish government and governments on the eastern and northern flanks, we all are keenly aware that we may be in 1938 or 39, and that we are facing the same dilemmas and challenges that our ancestors did.
Mluvčí 04: And we will not fail.
Mluvčí 04:  I just have two arguments to make.
Mluvčí 04: First of all, in Western Europe, we need to persuade populations and elites that deterring Putin after he's conquered Ukraine will be much more expensive than helping Ukraine now.
Mluvčí 04: It's a no-brainer.
Mluvčí 04: Because Putin will do to all of Ukraine what he did to Donbass.
Mluvčí 04:  He will marshal the human and industrial resources to go further.
Mluvčí 04: He will draft Ukrainians into his army to attack us.
Mluvčí 04: That's a terrible prospect.
Mluvčí 04: And my other proposition is this, and I'll speak with my customary frankness, a message to our American friends.
Mluvčí 04:  We are very grateful to what the United States has done so far, but we are on a knife edge.
Mluvčí 04: Because Europe, even with all the financial resources that we've given, and they're actually bigger than the US, is not at the moment capable of producing all the equipment and ammo that is necessary.
Mluvčí 04: We cannot do this with the United States.
Mluvčí 04: And if the United States doesn't pass this package,
Mluvčí 04:  Ukraine will be in real difficulty, but the United States will then be seen as an unreliable ally.
Mluvčí 04: In other words, they encourage you to fight, and then because of some parochial concerns of somebody you previously never heard of, they don't come through.
Mluvčí 04: That will have consequences for America's alliances all around the world.
Mluvčí 04: Countries will start hedging.
Mluvčí 04:  And this will affect American interests in ways that you can't even predict.
Mluvčí 04: And therefore, I think it's really, really important for the US to pass this package.
Mluvčí 04: Thank you.
Mluvčí 03:  Thank you.
Mluvčí 03: One person who put this very starkly just recently was Trølsund Poulsen, the Acting Minister of Defence of Denmark.
Mluvčí 03: Where are you, Minister?
Mluvčí 03: And you said, and I'm going to quote you, it cannot be ruled out that within a three to five year period, Russia will test Article 5.
Mluvčí 03:  That was not the assessment of 2023.
Mluvčí 03: So I would like to acknowledge you, acknowledge the clarity with which you said that.
Mluvčí 03: And I'm now going to turn, if you don't mind, to the panel, because we're massively running out of time.
Mluvčí 03: But that challenge that the Defence Minister laid out, the challenge that Foreign Minister Sikorski has given, you've heard a remarkably moving set of testimonies from our Ukrainian heroes.
Mluvčí 03:  What do you take away from this?
Mluvčí 03: You were very sober last year.
Mluvčí 03: I mean, what more?
Mluvčí 03: And you said concrete things that needed to be done.
Mluvčí 03: Just leave us with what you're going to take away from this and what you're going to push your fellow European heads of state to do.
Mluvčí 18:  very short, because all important has been already said.
Mluvčí 18: We heard a number of moving stories of Ukrainian soldiers, and every day of delay will increase the number of these stories, including those who will lose their beloved.
Mluvčí 18: I think we should really do all what is at our disposal, looking in a very innovative and flexible way on all options to provide what Ukraine needs.
Mluvčí 18:  They are suffering.
Mluvčí 18: The only thing that we can sacrifice is a reduction of our own comfort.
Mluvčí 18: Let's do it.
Mluvčí 03: Thank you.
Mluvčí 03: Prime Minister Kalas.
Mluvčí 00: I think it is important that we think about the out-of-the-box solutions and we really have to concentrate our efforts.
Mluvčí 00: I mean, military support to Ukraine, political pressure on all the levels that we have in different international institutions,
Mluvčí 00:  also economical pressure by implementing the sanctions properly and putting really into the circumvention of sanctions.
Mluvčí 00: I think all these elements together, and especially the out-of-the-box solutions that the Russians are afraid of, using the frozen assets, I mean, they are afraid of that.
Mluvčí 00: And as I said, I can't be brief arguing
Mluvčí 00:  with what Alexander said about how we can use not only the profits of the frozen assets, but the frozen assets entirely, but that's another topic.
Mluvčí 00: But what I want to emphasize is that we just, I mean, what I am doing, I'm thinking about these out-of-box solutions all the time that could actually make and bring the breaking point of this war closer.
Mluvčí 00: Thank you.
Mluvčí 00:  Thank you.
Mluvčí 03: Prime Minister de Kroo, I'm going to ask you a tough question to conclude, and I don't mean it personally, but when we are all looking back at this, and you particularly, given your role now, are you confident that you will be comfortable that you and your fellow European prime ministers did as much as you possibly could have done?
Mluvčí 16:  I think the unity we've shown is way more than anyone would have expected and way more than Vladimir Putin expected.
Mluvčí 16: Did Vladimir Putin expect that Finland and Sweden would join NATO?
Mluvčí 16: I don't think he expected that.
Mluvčí 16: Did he expect that we would give a clear perspective to Ukraine to join the European Union?
Mluvčí 16: I don't think he expected that.
Mluvčí 16: Did he expect us to decide on 50 billion European support?
Mluvčí 16: All of these things, we went further than what he expected.
Mluvčí 16:  We should not throw that away.
Mluvčí 16: And the main thing we have, besides all the military spending we do, besides all the support, the main thing that we've shown is our unity.
Mluvčí 16: And he's tested our unity two years in a row, and he will continue to test our unity.
Mluvčí 16: And he will always go further.
Mluvčí 16:  in testing us.
Mluvčí 16: How do we stick together?
Mluvčí 16: By the way, not only Russia.
Mluvčí 16: Others are testing that all the time.
Mluvčí 16: It's the main thing we have is our unity.
Mluvčí 16: And that we should cherish.
Mluvčí 16: But we should also ramp up our support.
Mluvčí 16: And that means today ramping up our industrial capacity to produce.
Mluvčí 16: We did not have that enough in Europe.
Mluvčí 16: We did not expect that we needed that.
Mluvčí 16:  We need to speed that up in the short term and then we need to maintain it because I'm convinced that in the next decades we, the Western world, will be challenged by Russia and by others and we need to be ready for that.
Mluvčí 03: Thank you.
Mluvčí 03: Prime Minister Jankov, what's your take on that?
Mluvčí 15:  I'll build up a little bit over what was said by Alexander.
Mluvčí 15: Just two, three years ago, we were discussing whether we have to try to unite Europeans for one or another topic.
Mluvčí 15: I think one of the lessons that we have learned is that not only about Ukraine, about the migration, about the other challenges that we have.
Mluvčí 15: It's absolutely clear now that Europe should be together, should work together,
Mluvčí 15:  And when we do this, we'll be much more powerful than we are today.
Mluvčí 15: We just missed to start this years ago.
Mluvčí 15: Now we have to catch up in the way that we're discussed.
Mluvčí 03: Prime Minister Fredriksen.
Mluvčí 01:  Well, unfortunately, in a week from now, we have a two year anniversary on war in Europe, which means that we have one week to take the next decisions.
Mluvčí 01: And we could decide to ensure that on Saturday, when war has been going on for two years, that Ukraine will receive more deliveries.
Mluvčí 01:  Concrete deliveries on the ground.
Mluvčí 01: I will repeat, ammunition.
Mluvčí 01: We need to get more in our collision on the F-16 fighters.
Mluvčí 01: We need artillery directly to Ukraine.
Mluvčí 01:  We need more drones, we need long-ranging missiles and so on.
Mluvčí 01: And when I look at Europe during the COVID-19, we were able together with the Americans to produce a vaccine in a year instead of what it normally takes 8 to 10 years.
Mluvčí 01:  So I would really like to underline that on Saturday, there should be new deliveries, new donations, very, very clear military equipment to Ukraine instead of more words.
Mluvčí 01: Words will not solve this situation.
Mluvčí 01: And then secondly, production capacity.
Mluvčí 01:  All over Europe, we have some very good examples, for example, with Czech Republic, where we join efforts.
Mluvčí 01: I think it needs to be the next step.
Mluvčí 01: And then finally, I think the only thing Putin really respects is military force and our willingness
Mluvčí 01:  to protect us.
Mluvčí 01: So Ukraine has to be promised that they belong to the European family when it comes to the European Union and the transatlantic alliance.
Mluvčí 01: So on a short term perspective, give them what they need.
Mluvčí 01: And after that, ensure Ukraine by welcoming them to the European Union and to NATO.
Mluvčí 03: Thank you, Secretary Clinton.
Mluvčí 03:  So Prime Minister Ferguson made it very clear.
Mluvčí 03: More weapons, welcome them to the European Union.
Mluvčí 03: That's a European Union issue.
Mluvčí 03: Welcome them to NATO is a US issue.
Mluvčí 03: Will that happen?
Mluvčí 03: And when our children reflect on this, our grandchildren, will the United States have been there when it counted or will it be, as Neil Ferguson said, an unreliable ally?
Mluvčí 13:  I don't think any of us could have listened to the three Ukrainian soldiers who shared their experiences with us without really understanding we are in an existential crisis.
Mluvčí 13: I hate that when people use the word and they talk about, you know, not having the right dress to wear.
Mluvčí 13: I mean, this is a really serious, historic,
Mluvčí 13:  challenge that we will either rise to meet or we will fail.
Mluvčí 13: And we don't have a whole lot of time to prove that we will rise and succeed and the Ukrainians are paying the price for that hesitancy.
Mluvčí 13: And so I think if we will be
Mluvčí 13:  much more focused on resolving all of these issues that we have talked about for two years.
Mluvčí 13: And I'm 100% with Prime Minister Fredrickson.
Mluvčí 13: If everyone here who is in any position of authority, either in government, or can influence government, or in business, or can influence business, will take these next week or two to literally figure out, OK, how do we unfreeze the assets?
Mluvčí 13:  How do we get more ammunition and more other material quickly to the battlefront?
Mluvčí 13: How do we demonstrate the kind of resolve that is required when you face an existential crisis that we've already heard should be rightly called a world war already?
Mluvčí 13:  It's challenging because we're coming out of a period, and some of us were talking about this earlier at another gathering, we're coming out of a period where none of us wanted to be here again.
Mluvčí 13:  coming out of World War II, going into a Cold War, going into other military conflicts, finally seeing the Soviet Union disintegrate, thinking that China was on a constructive path to be a responsible stakeholder in the world community, on and on.
Mluvčí 13: None of us wanted to believe what we were seeing in front of our very eyes.
Mluvčí 13:  because it just was so disappointing to think we had to get back on war footing.
Mluvčí 13: You know, European countries spent 3% plus on defense budgets during the Cold War.
Mluvčí 13: That's a tough road to hoe, but it's going to have to be walked.
Mluvčí 13: Because as Anne Applebaum rightly said, we are in an existential crisis not only because of Ukraine, but because
Mluvčí 13:  Very powerful forces in this world want to destroy our way of life.
Mluvčí 13: And when people say that, you can just see the recoil.
Mluvčí 13: Because who wants to believe it?
Mluvčí 13: Well, believe it.
Mluvčí 13: Russia, Iran, China, their little buddy North Korea.
Mluvčí 13:  is determined to undermine not just democracy, but literally the freedom that enables us, as we heard from one of our Ukrainian heroes, to walk down a street without fearing you'll hear an alarm and have to take shelter.
Mluvčí 13:  I just think we are at this moment and every one of us can do a lot more whether we're in government or not or in any other position to make the case and try to figure out what is it that we can do to respond to this crisis because it's coming for all of us if we don't.
Mluvčí 03: Thank you.
Mluvčí 03: Thank you for that.
Mluvčí 03: Thank you all.
Mluvčí 03: Thank you particularly to our Ukrainian heroes.
Mluvčí 03: Thank you for coming.
Mluvčí 03: I hope that we have a
Mluvčí 03:  less sober gathering next year.
Mluvčí 03: Thank you very much.