Transcript: Sandum Council - 4 January 2015
Jan 4th, 2015
- Good afternoon, Comrade Citizens. At this time, I would like to open the first session of the Council of the State of Sandus that will last from the first Full Moon of the administrative year 2015 to the second Full Moon, on 3 February 2015.
- [12:00:45 PM] Sôgmô C. Sörgel Publicola: Before we begin, I would like to explain a few things.
- [12:01:32 PM] Sôgmô C. Sörgel Publicola: As you can tell (whether you are present now or later), these meetings are intended to begin the discussion that will continue onto a forum where actual decisions will be made by consensus.
- [12:01:56 PM] Sôgmô C. Sörgel Publicola: Attendance isn't obligatory, but it makes sense that you attend as this meeting sets the agenda for the next lunar month.
- [12:02:27 PM] Sôgmô C. Sörgel Publicola: We have on the agenda for today a discussion of the powers, practices, and procedures for the Council.
- [12:02:43 PM] Sôgmô C. Sörgel Publicola: Explanations can be found here: http://sandus.org/2015/01/01/first-council-session-planned-for-4-january-2015/
- [12:03:21 PM] Sôgmô C. Sörgel Publicola: These meetings are not meant to take longer than an hour, so as to be economical of your time and respectful of what else people may be have going on in their lives.
- [12:03:44 PM] Sôgmô C. Sörgel Publicola: Plus: we have a whole month to discuss a matter.
- [12:04:39 PM] Sôgmô C. Sörgel Publicola: Present are myself, Gaius Sörgel, and Akhil Indurti.
- [12:05:51 PM] Sôgmô C. Sörgel Publicola: And, so, I pose this question really to you, Akhil: to begin this session, what powers do you wish to see the Council having in the constitution of Sandus?
- [12:07:59 PM] Sôgmô C. Sörgel Publicola: Adam has proposed that the Council should have full legislative powers. Do you agree?
- [12:10:37 PM] Akhil Indurti: Hello! I agree that the Council should have full legislative powers. Because of the current size of Sandus, there should not be too much stifling in passing legislation via the Council. It seems like a good way to get majority opinion
- [12:11:45 PM] Sôgmô C. Sörgel Publicola: I will admit, though I at first thought that the Council should evolve into a legislature, I now agree that the Council should be given full legislative powers.
- [12:13:27 PM] Sôgmô C. Sörgel Publicola: As a part of this discussion over the next month, I want to also point out that the Council was devised, originally, in the spirit of Native American government where decision were made with consensus, facilitated by one person (such as the Sôgmô), and were motived by three questions:
- Is Peace preserved?
- Is it moral and righteous?
- Does it preserve the integrity and power of the group?
- [12:14:16 PM] Akhil Indurti: Yes, the facilitation is something that should be figured out.
- [12:14:19 PM] Sôgmô C. Sörgel Publicola: When considering the Council's decisions, I hope that these three questions will form the basis of our discussion.
- [12:14:24 PM] Sôgmô C. Sörgel Publicola: Indeed.
- [12:15:02 PM] Sôgmô C. Sörgel Publicola: Do you agree, Akhil, that the Council should have a facilitator to lead its discussions, then?
- [12:17:43 PM] Akhil Indurti: Perhaps, but the intended topics for discussion should be available beforehand, as well as time for citizens to introduce topics.
- People should be able to vote on the topics of the legislative meeting.
- The facilitator only acts as the liaison/organizer for the Council
- [12:21:20 PM | Edited 12:22:44 PM] Sôgmô C. Sörgel Publicola: So, in a sense:
- The Council is facilitated by a facilitator. The agenda should be published before the session and a section should be included for citizens' topics, whereby they can add them during the meeting or through some sort of public statement?
- The agenda should be approved by the Council?
- And, finally, who should facilitate the Council?
- I would stand and nominate myself for facilitation of the Council, but I believe it best if the facilitator of the Council be a constitutional and legal office set apart from the Sôgmô to be reelected each month, at these meetings, or each year in January.
- [12:23:27 PM] Akhil Indurti: I think that you are doing an excellent job as a facilitator right now. You ask all the right questions to delve deeper into topics. We can nominate facilitators at the same time when we nominate topics, but I would nominate you at the moment
- [12:23:38 PM] Sôgmô C. Sörgel Publicola: Unless, of course, someone else — such as yourself, Akhil — decides to stand for facilitation.
- [12:24:03 PM] Akhil Indurti: yes, in which case it would be perfectly fine that for that month, I facilitate
- [12:24:18 PM] Sôgmô C. Sörgel Publicola: That is a good idea, actually: nominate facilitators for specific topics, as a sort of reference to an expert, etc.
- [12:24:44 PM] Sôgmô C. Sörgel Publicola: Both can be done. The facilitator can nominate a facilitator for a specific motion/topic.
- [12:28:01 PM] Sôgmô C. Sörgel Publicola: Now, as for the out-of-meeting discussion, I believe that decisions made by the Council should be done on the basis of consensus, unless there is deadlock: then a vote should take place. Should the Facilitator decide when to declare voting?
- [12:28:55 PM] Sôgmô C. Sörgel Publicola: And, would you be willing to set up for us a Discourse forum, Akhil? I have looked into it, but I'm not sure if I completely understand it.
- [12:29:28 PM] Akhil Indurti: I would love to. I can start immediately if you want
- [12:30:01 PM] Sôgmô C. Sörgel Publicola: Please do! Please also write up a little tutorial or link us to one, so that I can publish that to Veritum Sandus.
- [12:31:10 PM] Sôgmô C. Sörgel Publicola: Do you agree with the procedure that I have laid out for the Council? That is, the process by which we have meetings on Skype to introduce a session's agenda and then the continuation of discussion on forums?
- [12:31:39 PM] Akhil Indurti: I agree.
- [12:32:37 PM] Sôgmô C. Sörgel Publicola: The final item I can think to bring up is a matter Adam and I spoke about, whereby the Sôgmô can veto a decision made by the Council: but the Council and the Party can override that veto.
- [12:33:42 PM] Sôgmô C. Sörgel Publicola: Do you agree with that?
- [12:34:19 PM] Akhil Indurti: Under what conditions can the Council & Party override that veto?
- [12:35:58 PM] Sôgmô C. Sörgel Publicola: I believe the process by which the Party would do that is questionable, as the Party currently only meets once in November. Plus, if all Sandum citizens are also Party members, it simply makes the Party a second Council.
- [12:36:22 PM] Sôgmô C. Sörgel Publicola: I suggest we ask Adam to clarify how the Party would vote to override that veto.
- [12:36:52 PM] Akhil Indurti: Sounds reasonable. We will eventually reach that decision in future Councils as well
- [12:37:36 PM] Sôgmô C. Sörgel Publicola: Yes, and thus we have our first thing to actually discuss in the next month: the veto and overriding-vetoes process.
- [12:38:11 PM] Sôgmô C. Sörgel Publicola: Any other concerns you can think of concerning the Council?
- [12:39:12 PM] Akhil Indurti: No, I think that's all
- [12:39:27 PM] Sôgmô C. Sörgel Publicola: Alright, so we have decided here:
- [12:42:18 PM] Sôgmô C. Sörgel Publicola: 1. The Council's sessions will be comprised of an in camera meeting on Skype on the Full Moon which begins the session, but discussion will continue ex camera on forums dedicated to the Council.
- 2. The Council is chaired and facilitated by a facilitator; a facilitator is elected either once a month during these meetings or once a year in January (this will be discussed more on the forums); the facilitator may appoint another person to facilitate a specific topic or motion.
- 3. Decisions made by the Council are made, ideally, through consensus, except if division is too strong — then, decisions are made by majority vote.
- [12:42:59 PM] Akhil Indurti: Alright
- [12:43:19 PM] Sôgmô C. Sörgel Publicola: And we have asked Adam to clarify the process by which a veto may be levied by the Sôgmô, and a way for the Council and the Party to overcome that veto. And we have asked you, Akhil, to set up for us a Discourse forum.
- [12:44:30 PM] Sôgmô C. Sörgel Publicola: In the last 15 minutes, I would like to do as you suggested, Akhil, and open up the floor to citizens' concerns and topics.
- [12:46:53 PM] Akhil Indurti: I believe that we should hold a call for research papers/articles every month or so. Depends on how long you think the gap should be. It's a good way to motivate people to post on the Sandus website and/or publish in the name of Sandus
- [12:47:11 PM] Akhil Indurti: A way to increase credibility and publicize our state
- [12:48:35 PM] Sôgmô C. Sörgel Publicola: The current call for papers and articles is done by the Collegio Sacerdae, the cultural cooperative. I like the idea, especially for articles, though once a month might be too frequent for research papers.
- [12:49:08 PM] Sôgmô C. Sörgel Publicola: But I agree that it's a good way to publicise the State of Sandus.
- [12:49:38 PM] Sôgmô C. Sörgel Publicola: Perhaps Veritum Sandus can ask for articles from citizens each month: would that be a project you'd like to undertake, Akhil?
- [12:50:27 PM] Akhil Indurti: Yes. I would love to try and publicize Sandus through actions we take, not the things we say about ourselves
- [12:51:10 PM] Sôgmô C. Sörgel Publicola: Yes, I like that idea!
- [12:51:35 PM] Sôgmô C. Sörgel Publicola: I will look into calls for research papers for the Collegio Sacerdae, too.
- [12:53:01 PM] Sôgmô C. Sörgel Publicola: I see that you are an author on the Veritum Sandus (Sandus.org) website, according to WordPress. Perhaps you could write an article about this new project of yours for citizens?
- [12:53:41 PM] Sôgmô C. Sörgel Publicola: Shouldn't be too long. Just explain the reasoning and rationale, I suppose. Whatever you think would get people most interested!
- [12:55:27 PM] Sôgmô C. Sörgel Publicola: It is also my hope to see more citizens writing for Veritum Sandus than just me, too.
- [12:57:36 PM] Akhil Indurti: I'll first start with the Discourse
- [12:57:45 PM] Sôgmô C. Sörgel Publicola: Good, good!
- [12:58:17 PM] Sôgmô C. Sörgel Publicola: I know that Adam and Robert will also have interesting things to write about, both philosophically and politically.
- [12:58:42 PM] Sôgmô C. Sörgel Publicola: Anyway, without further ado, unless there are more concerns, we can adjourn.
- [12:59:03 PM] Akhil Indurti: Bye!
- [12:59:17 PM] Sôgmô C. Sörgel Publicola: Goodbye!
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