Detroit Simon Feedback

Heavy Rain: 16.7
Beyond: 20
Detroit: 30

30m € + 25m$ marketing = 35M = 65M $ max

HR: 47M budget vs 117M intake (at 3 million copies sold) 39 million per million

first million will be around 53M dollar intake


First of all congratulations on releasing Detroit to a nice critical reception and hopefully soon commercial too. Players are certainly enthusiastic about it so far. I'm sure that took a lot of hard work from everyone to get it out of the door in this state. As you know I'm a giant fan so safe to say I absolutely loved the game. Ranking them I definetly put Detroit on top of everything Quantic has done so far.

	Thanks a lot really for this detailed feedback, that’s always interesting and when it’s articulate, we can act upon (clearly not for Detroit, but for future project!)

Since you got promoted to Lead Game Designer it seems after Caroline left I hope my thoughts are in good hands with you. I know you appear to be quite self critical about your work, thus I will try my best to not be too gushy about everything since that's probably not as valuable to you as honest criticism is. So here it goes, I will go chapter by chapter since as per usual you employ different mechanics per chapter which needs to be addressed. I will also include some writing criticism if I felt it somewhat ties into the gameplay.

	You know way too much of the inside of Quantic (and myself haha) 😉

The Hostage:

Since this was obviously your vertical slice everything is in a pretty good polished state here.

Generally speaking some people still seem to struggle with the camera control and interactions being both mapped to the right stick. People are used to manage their camera at all times from others games, so if you move it to focus on an object you need to let go first before you can do the interaction. This honestly was more apparent/problematic in this chapter than anywhere else though since this chapter has a lot of tight spaces with many interactions on the floor sometimes. I assume you guys experimented around with the touchpad instead but since it can be arkward to use I do think the final control scheme makes the most sense. Perhaps more of a limitation to the controller itself or lack of player understanding. As much as people complained about "tank" controls in Heavy Rain, that control scheme probably made the most sense with the way you are doing things, but it was too "out there" for people to understand or use properly. So I dont really have any concrete ideas on how to improve this without dropping the trademark Quantic "unfolding your actions with the stick" mechanic entirely a la Until Dawn.

	That’s I think my main regret on the game. To not having be able to find a satisfying way to keep the stick interaction and the camera without them conflicting one to another. We tested lot of things (like adding a button before interaction) but that didn’t work well in the fluidity and easiness we wanted. So kind of a conundrum.
We could argue that the Unfold mechanics doesn’t add much and could be remove (we try in the beginning of the project) but fear among the top management was that the game would loose a lot of its emotional involvement (puppeteering vs just indicating what to do to the characters).

I liked how you took the criticism into account that people didnt't really know what the prompts were doing sometimes, here it is spelled out for you with clear descriptions.

Big props goes to making the characters step over objects and dodging NPCs then arkwardly running into them. Awesome touch.

	Thanks, that was a nightmare to integrate! (mainly due to our tool pipeline)

If Connor dies here it perhaps needed to be addressed earlier that he gets replaced since I saw some people confused him showing up at the bar if he died there. It is months later of course, but I have a feeling the original plan for Detroit had maybe a different structure in mind for the Hostage scene and how it fits into the overall picture, so I understand if it got kinda left out.

	Funny thing is that Hostage was always planned to be the first scene of the game and our “tutorial”. The lack of explanation was something David was very kin on while we wanted to do things like a newscast talking about the event (to make sure the player understood that it really happened).
	If you look closely, you can also see that the serial number of Connor increments with every death (and in Amanda’s garden, you can find the tombs of previous incarnations).


Opening:

Not much to go on here, but I appreciate you allowing the player to look around as Kara in the store. Needless to say the Opening itself was very beautiful.

Shades Of Color:

Exceptional display of "put a lot of effort into a 1 minute scene 90% of players will run past". I'm someone who loves to stop and take in the world and scenery and the NPC scripting department did an amazing job here. Usually you see the seams appear quickly with loops setting in in other games, not so here where there are unique interactions scripted out for several minutes. I hope you guys never stop with this as it sets you clearly apart in a very positive way.

	That’s plain stupid of us to do that haha but we like it. I mean, the amount of time and work put into that scene (and larger prototype), it’s insane. But it’s true that we have an attention to details that is borderline psychopath.

A New Home:

This scene plays out mostly well, but it is maybe a bit too scripted. The comparable scene in Heavy Rain was a bit more dynamic in that regard. Of course Kara is stimulated to follow strict orders at this point so it is not too big of a deal but it was kinda apparent that NPCs moved across the house in a very scripted way.


The Painter:

Nothing to complain about here. I appreciate that you found ways to not let the dialogue of NPCs interrupt if the player moves too fast. I saw some people complain that nothing happens if you let go of the prompts to help Carl, as if they would like to see Markus drop him to the floor. Perhaps a more simple prompt is advisable here that then goes over into a cutscene.

Playing the piano was amazingly well implemented with the touchpad usage. More of that inventiveness is always nice.

	It’s entirely based on a flash game called touch pianist http://touchpianist.com/ We contacted the author to have his agreement for us to heavily inspired from his work.

Story wise I agree with others that the beautiful moment with Markus and Carl is unpleasantly interrupted with Leo and it maybe wasn't neccesary with this hard of a cut.

	I agree, Leo isn’t the best character. The acting is a little off. But I think it’s interesting to interrupt the moment for the player to be in the same “pissed off” state than Markus and Carl.

Partners:

All around perfect. Very nice usage of the Connor mechanics for the Crime Scene investigation. I love how the music gets more intense as you realize the Android is still in the attic, same happens in The Nest.

Stormy Night:

Absolutely wonderful. Nearly everything the player wants to do is accommodated here. Feels like the Taxidermist chapter of Heavy Rain.

Broken:

Not relevant to gameplay, but again Leo maybe wasn't the best realized character for this conflict. But it works well enough.

The Interrogation:

Super interesting idea with the stress meter. Nothing to complain about here either.

Fugitives:

Great expansion on the sandbox idea you guys attempted in the past. Very well scripted with a lot of combinations taken into account. Perfect in guilt tripping the player with great consequences for the next chapter too.

From The Dead:

Very linear, but it gets the point across. I like how you can decide which parts to take from whom. Very well done in all regards.

Waiting for Hank:

Awesome touch that you can find Todd here making his report if you let him live. Same goes for that you can either overhear the briefing or decide to join in at any point and it works out. I would have liked to be able to explore the station a bit longer if you analyzed Hank's desk first and didn't want to miss the briefing either, but it has to move along at some point.

	It’s typically the things where we spend the most of time. Finding the right balance of pacing. In user tests, this scene was deemed boring for a long time until we made the briefing optional.

On the Run:

Great effects from the previous chapter. I liked my personal journey where I had to sneak by the cops, that was well done.

Jericho:

As interesting as the world was to explore and I love the NPC and traffic simulation, most players seem to agree that this chapter was kind of boring. That should not discourage you from doing this sorta thing ever again, but it was maybe a tad too long searching for the graffitis. Funningly enough on a second playthrough it goes by fast enough and it serves its purpose fine. Just on a first playthrough it feels drawn out somehow. The segment on the ship was very atmospheric however and was the typical QD horror dose I come to expect, which works very well in your games since it is not the focus and usually comes entirely unexpected.

	I agree. That scene lacks something during the exploration. Something that would drive you a little more and having more density of interaction in the first part. We will definitely keep those kinds of gold chase but I hope we can solve the issue of pacing better next time.

The Nest:

The chase segment is the best piece of gameplay in the whole interactive story medium so far in my eyes. Absolutely perfect from every standpoint. Scenery, music, you constantly feel in control and like you really are making split second decisions constantly. It feels very active and involved and rarely involves QTEs at all, and when they come up they are mostly persistent e.g. always X to jump/climb which feels great. Very very well done in that regard.

	It was hard to pull but so much worth it. Glad you like it.

Time to Decide:

Straightforward, not much to say here.

Zlatko:

From a writing standpoint this chapter was rather cliche. Also super obvious if the player paid even a little bit of attention to Kara not getting caught immediately by Connor thus there either not being a tracker or that it doesn't work. I would have preferred if like the Bar chapter in Beyond or The Doc chapter in Heavy Rain you would have gotten a chance to leave the house here early. It feels bad to walk into the basement knowing it is a trap especially when Alice points it out too. Kara is supposed to be naive here which makes it okay, but I would have preferred an alternative anyhow. I know this probably wasn't done because you need to have Luther in the storyline, but maybe there could have been a branching path where you break his control and then leave with him early.

Speaking about Luther. I like his character, but you guys are probably aware that the Mad Jack character in Heavy Rain didn't exactly receive positive attention and for good reason. So when you first see Luther and he just appears as a simple giant not saying anything it did invoke some maybe not optimal nostalgia. His progression is obviously great and not even comparable to Heavy Rain but since first impressions count for people a lot of the time I felt like pointing it out anyway.

As cliche as the setup is, the hide and seek gameplay that ensues is a lot of fun and makes it pay off in a big way. Very stressful and well done gameplay. I like that the timer is visible to the player instead of being hidden away.

	It’s the problem with the “genre” piece. To make them work quickly in the mind of the player, we need to be a bit heavy handed to the point of the cliché. I would prefer a subtler approach, but David thought this scene needs to be crytal clear.
	Regarding the escape early, we planned originally to make Luther optional (you decide to keep him with you or not) but the amount of work for the rest of the game was too big and lacking another character for Kara to express herself was too big of an issue.
	Yeah Luther is cliché too… Hopefully next game, our writers will be better at helping David not writing that much cliché haha.

Russian Roulette:

All around great.

Spare Parts:

Very well done, but I would have preferred if you can loose this chapter earlier on if you really mess up as the player and walk into a drones path too many times. But this is just a minor complaint and I realize that the story likely calls for the group to not return entirely empty handed for the plot to make sense.

	Yeah I would have preferred too! In terms of gameplay, most of the tension is lost when you realized, you can’t fail. But the story needed it (frustrating !)

The Eden Club:

Very innovative ideas here. Loved the deduction process of figuring out where the Traci went. Awesome fight too.

The Pirates' Cove:

Beautiful chapter, but I think it maybe wasn't neccesary to have the Jerry's appear scary for a moment. The tension felt kinda unneeded in that moment. Telling Alice a story and allowing you to shape it with dialogue prompts was gorgeous.

	Haha another point of disagreement between me and David. Those Jerry-zombie are not required. We could have done the same with just them appearing menacing and without them being actual zombie/windows breakers.
	Another fun thing is that we wanted to make them speak with the same voice but different bodies. As if they have a hive mind of sort. But David thought it was too weird.

The Bridge:

No complaints here. But Hank drawing the gun on Connor should maybe have been tied to the relationship meter more instead of occuring always.

The Stratford Tower:

Another drawn out chapter, but I found it very fun and epic to do.

Public Enemy:

Having a choice between the deviant and the roof was a great touch. Perhaps there should have been a dialogue prompt earlier to lock yourself onto a deviant if you are 100% sure it is him. I saw his eyes move pretty much immediately but still had to go through like 6 prompts of threatening him before he would attack me.

	The dialogue was originally written without any choice to the one you interrogate. Basically, there was no search gameplay, just you talk, and the guy attacks you after a while. So, we had to do with what we have: D

Midnight Train:

Rose is a wonderful character and the whole chapter works out fine, with a nice interlude by David Gasman cop. Felt like the Lucas apartment scene from Fahrenheit trying to hide your evidence in time.

Capitol Park:

No complaints here. Very polished scene and it is nice to be able to move the meter from Pacifist to Revolution by your actions. NPCs follow very realistic patterns here.

Although perhaps it should have been made a tiny bit clearer that the cop the Androids caught was Chris, the one that is always present at the crime scenes of Hank and Connor. I really liked him, but I totally didn't recognize him in that chapter due the intense lighting so I left the choice to the others who expectedly shot him. I felt really bad about it afterwards when Hank brought it up, but maybe that was the point. Me sparing someone just because he is someone I know is kinda hypocritical so I can understand it as making a point.

	Interesting take on it. True that Markus doesn’t know him and we wanted to represent that by not emphasis too much who this was. After we also remove lots of more close shots due to censorship from Sony. I can understand that they didn’t want us to portray killing cops that crudely.

Meet Kamski:

Very eerie scene with a nice reveal about Amanda if you look for it. Very nice.

Freedom March:

The beginning scene has problems if you do not like North. If you do it works out fine and the way you expect. But if you don't and already put her pretty much against you it feels unearned that her perception of Markus goes straight back up to neutral just because he succeeded the prior mission. Enquiring about her past out of curiosity should not immediately push her all the way up to lover. There should have been another choice that either only unlocks if you had a pleasing relationship going on before or that spells out to the player that if he/she chooses it it will lead into a romantic relationship. So the player doesn't feel forced into it no matter what. And if you decline it then the meter should irredeemably sink so hard you can not suddenly be in love again 2 scenes later.

	Most of it are since we have 3 characters and we wanted to cram so much content and story that some of it feel rushed. Especially when you know the game is spread on a week.The love story with North could have been a bit better handle and more progressive I agree.
	The last part is more linked to the balancing of the relationship meters and how we want to be generous with the player to avoid frustration in the other scene. Even after messing, the player could still try to salvage it.


As for the chapter itself I loved how it got progressively easier for Markus to convert Androids. From holding multiple buttons to one to then just tapping it felt awesome. Very great use of the dreaded "walking section". Here it actually feels meaningful. The final segment with the riot police was great and offered very meaningful choices that really questions your morales.

Last Chance, Connor:

Having all the prior investigations and the successes and failures coming back at you felt again very Fahrenheit esque. Amazing job on that. I noticed your gamedesign team has Jerome in it again who was involved with Fahrenheit. Maybe he had some input there!? :P

	Haha you know too much! Jerome wasn’t involved in that scene (he was more on Kara scenes). But for sure we tend to reuse previous games mechanics when it worked!

Crossroads:

Everything comes together in an extremely satisfying way here. Big positive marks on every aspect. THAT WAS AWESOME. Especially with the branches possible. You expect the game to end after this, really nice it subverted expectations in continuing on

Night of the Soul:

Nothing to say here. I really liked how Carl wasn't forgotten about, especially if you kept him alive

Battle for Detroit:

Again a very satisfying chapter where a lot of branches are taken into account. Awesome use of real time scenario switches. Having one of the camera shots being taken out of a news helicopter while you peacefully march towards the camp as Markus with the newsfeed overlayed was a genius idea.

Since I only played the peaceful route so far I can only give my feedback for that. Additional big props goes to the final march section where you are in direct control while the soldiers scream "FIRE!!!" and gun down Androids next to you. It feels all the more impactful if you are actually in control when it happens and it doesn't cut away for a cutscene.

Everything else in that chapter was pretty much perfect as far as I experienced it so far. No complaints about Kara's arc, the journey to the bus station, then the final obstacles of getting onto the bus and over the border/the river all felt very personal and stressful. I loved that Todd's character was thought through to the end and he can find some redemption here, very subtle and just great. More of that is very welcome with me.

Perhaps Kara's finale chapter doesn't work out so well emotionally if the player decided to feel betrayed by the Alice twist and remains distant with her. But I can understand why there is no "leave Alice behind" choice right away for that slim possibility.

	Thanks a lot. This last scene was a nightmare to write and to do. We did it in the last months, rushing like madmen but at the end, it worked. That’s say a lot on the necessity of careful planning and preparation haha.

Final obversations:

On a more general note I'd like to point out that I really enjoyed the inclusion of the flowchart. I realize this was most likely done as a reaction to criticism that "my choices don't matter", but still. However some people would seemingly like the option to hide those on their first playthrough. They mask the loading times very well and you can just close your eyes if you don't wanna see them which I did on my initial playthrough, but I guess more options are always nice even if it means more apparent loading times?

	Thanks again. The flowchart was something we fight a bit to get it done due to the amount of work that represent for a lot of parties involved. But in the end the result is great and it goes with a more transparent experience.
	I hear you on the fact that some people could want to hide them. But looking at it affects their perception of the bending nature of the game and on later scenes, they will think of it and see the choices presented in a different way. Basically, we reinforce the bending nature at every scene (or so because some are very linear, unfortunately).

Entirely unrelated to the gameplay I'd also like to say that I very much appreciated the amount of diversity you guys put into Detroit. Almost every minority is represented here and it is just so refreshing to see and experience. You don't really notice you miss it from other media until you experience having it as in Detroit and all of it is so well done. The same goes for equal opportunity in gender dominated jobs as Detroit has male strippers and female cops. That is GREAT and you should keep pushing for that. It barely got attention in reviews which I think is a crying shame but it is worthy of respect. Definetly don't stop with it, it pretty much makes everything better.

	We pushed for that so much but no one sees it (or almost no one). I remember trying to convince the Lead Character that we need male stripper. That was a weird conversation haha.
	We tried also as much as we can to respect actors and their 3D counterpart avoiding that a black character is played by a white actor and vice-versa. After you reach some issues with the amount of US speaking black actors in France (as for a NPC, we won’t pay a Hollywood actor). We find some but not that much unfortunately.

I also loved that I got to play as a straight mother character for once without any emotional baggage or potential love interests slowing her down from her main and only goal. Big thumbs up there too.

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As expected this got very long. I apologize for that. Hopefully you can find something useful in here for the future/your next projects whatever they may be. Enjoy your vacation, you earned it many times over!