Lauren
Jim drunkenly spammed my facebook and called kevin an idiot. I deleted him, but sorry if he gives you any crap about it. but that's just not ok.

YesterdayGreg
No worries- it's your FB

YesterdayLauren
yeah, i know it's my facebook, i just thought you should be aware of the ass-ery that has gone on...since he's your friend

YesterdayGreg
Eh- there was assery on both sides. Certainly Jim owes an apology for losing his temper, but it takes two to argue.

YesterdayLauren
Arguing is one thing, being an ass is an entirely different thing. Also, putting 26 separate posts is jut obnoxious. I read Kevin's responses, he said nothing to warrant that behavior. Don't bullshit me, you know that's true.

20 hours agoGreg
Like I said- Jim owes Kevin an apology for making a personal attack, but if you're not willing to concede that Kevin was being even the slightest bit antagonistic, then it's not worth my time to continue this conversation.

20 hours agoLauren
He owes me and Kevin an apology - and while Kevin's arguments may come off as antagonistic, that is not something that is outright mean and offensive. Spamming my post and outwardly calling Kevin an idiot is on a whole different level. Frankly, I'm more concerned with your apathy than his obvious lack of consciousness

20 hours agoGreg
I'm apathetic because I realize that when people get drunk and argue politics, they're likely to escalate things? I'm sorry, but I care more about whether my friends learn from their mistakes than if they make them in the first place. Nobody's perfect.

20 hours agoLauren
...if he had done it on his own thing that is one thing, not on my post to my friend. That's what's wrong about it. And apologizing would be evidence that he has "learned from his mistake" would it not? There's a difference between making a mistake and being a jerk. I'm sorry, but I do not accept what you are saying as the right thing whatsoever. You and him were being bullies, not productive debaters.

20 hours agoGreg
Realistically he's not going to apologize to Kevin- he's got too much pride. That said, I suspect he will apologize to me, and tell me he was drunk and it was a bad idea, and quite frankly that's good enough for me.

At what point was I being a bully?

20 hours agoLauren
wow, that's good enough for you? why should he apologize to you at all? You're being a bully right now - this is what bullying is: putting an individual in a situation through force or intimidation in order to get what you want. You are concerned about what is write or the fact that Jim embarrassed himself and was disrespectful of me and Kevin. You just want it to go away.

20 hours agoGreg
So respectfully debating = bullying? I fail to see how your defenition of bullying is different.
*definition

20 hours agoLauren
A. Jim was not respectfully debating, and if that's what you think respectful debate is, then there's no point in discussing this with you. B. I didn't mean you were being a bully then, I mean you are NOW, as we speak, being a bully because you are trying to get me to give in through intimidation and cruelty.

19 hours agoGreg
I'm not talking about Jim- he can defend himself if he wants to.

That said, can you point out where I tried to intimidate you, or where I was cruel? I certainly have disagreed with you during this conversation, but expressing my disagreement candidly and respectfully does not, in my opinion, equate to intimidation.

19 hours agoLauren
You are not being respectful - the very notion that you are disregarding my concern as invalid is disrespectful. In this case, your disagreement is disrespectful to me because it means that you do not care about something that hurt me. You are trying to make me feel guilty and wrong about my anger towards the situation in order to pacify me. That's bullying.

19 hours agoGreg
And it's not bullying for you to do the same to me?

19 hours agoLauren
...You're not the one that was hurt in this situation...do you see that? Do you see that it was my facebook post that was spammed, and my friend, and therefore me, who was insulted, not you? How can you not see that? I'm not bullying you into pacification because you have nothing to be mad about.

19 hours agoGreg
Look a couple messages up, then a couple more, and note the part where I agreed multiple times Jim did something wrong. You're not angry at me because I don't think he did something wrong, you're angry at me because I'm not reacting to it in the way you see fit. Now I've got no problem disagreeing with peole on their personal decisions- if you want to cut contact with Jim because of a drunken mistake, that's your perogative. I do, however, think it's kind of ridiculous for you to call me a bully because I'm not doing exactly what you want. I'm not trying to control you or your opinions, but you're telling me I should do as you please. That, my friend, is the definition of a double standard.

19 hours agoLauren
I'm done with this conversation. You are being irrational and uncooperative and I have no desire to play your ridiculous game.

19 hours agoGreg
-Bring up clear example of fallacious argument
-Get accused of being irrational with no evidence

You're a smart woman, Lauren, but for your own sake I hope you learn to accept being wrong on occasion. Life's a lot more enjoyable when you set realistic expectations of yourself and those around you

19 hours agoLauren
Wow. And the condescension continues. You are no better than I am. I don't need you to tell me I'm smart, I know that already. I don't need you to tell me how to argue, I've made it pretty clear I'm better at that than you are. I don't need you tell me how to enjoy my life, I'm perfectly happy as I am. Thank you very much, now kindly shove off.

12 hours agoGreg
I'll preface this by stating that the only personal investment I have in saying what I'm about to say is that despite our arguments, I care a lot about you. It's clear to me that at this point in time we should give each other some space, but that doesn't change the fact that I want you to be happy.

That said, I feel like I speak on behalf of a majority of your former friends who you feel betrayed or otherwise wronged you when I say that it's incredibly hard to be friends with someone who can't stand to have a civil disagreement, much less to admit that they're wrong about something.

If you're truly happy with your life as it is then by all means, keep on keeping on, but saying that you're perfectly happy directly contradicts with what you told me before we devolved to arguing all the time, when we were talking about how you needed more friends you can trust, and when I started making an earnest effort to help you.

I understand that you'll probably disagree with me, and this will, more than anything, probably piss you off. All I can really do is hope that you realize that someone who went through very similar issues with trusting friends may in fact be able to offer some advice on getting over it and building healthy relationships.

Good luck to you, Boobaloo, wherever life takes you.