1. AMGC Moderation Charter

2. General Outline: Every member (of at least one month) of the IRC AMGC community may vote, and it will take place in a titanpad. The first vote will be to authorize the whole thing. A majority must vote yes for the rest of the process to be binding. After that, potential mod candidates will be listed and you may support any of them by entering your name underneath theirs. If you think a name is missing, feel free to add it. You may support as many names as you wish, and may vote for yourself. In fact, if you do not vote for yourself (showing that you are willing to be a moderator) then you will not be considered in the final count.

At the end of the voting period, the three mod candidates with the most names underneath will become moderators (replacing the current ones), and the one with the most votes will be given primary administrative power of the public channels. The current designated owner, Wander, will retain ownership and act in advisory capacity (if he wishes, and assuming he's not voted in anyways) until a majority vote decides otherwise.

A separate vote will be held simultaneously for who should be in charge of updating the PDFs and managing the PDF voting process. This will follow the same rules as above, and this person may also be one of the mods. Assuming they are not a mod, they will follow a similar procedure for reelection as outlined below.

2. Reelection: A mod retains their position for 6 months, after which another vote is held to find a replacement. The same mod may be reelected. If any mod is inactive for one month or more, he or she will lose mod status and a replacement will be voted on.

3. Transition: The expectation is that Wander will agree to replace the mod team with whoever wins. If this is not the case, alternatives exist. It is assumed by default that all current strikes and bans will carry over, although the mods may choose to overturn these as they see fit.

4. Amendment: A majority vote may amend this charter at any point, although at least a week should be allowed for voters to participate and a link should be available on the thread on 4chan.

5. Rules and Rulings: Current IRC rules will continue to be enforced, and mods can adjudicate obedience to them as they see fit. Generally, a 2/3 majority of mods would have authority to decide on some sensitive topic. Changes to the IRC rules can be made, but must be voted on by the general membership.

Predicted Questions...

Q: Isn't it going to be hard for new mods to settle in?

A: It'll take a little adjustment, but it's not that difficult. You could learn most of what you need to know in like an hour. It didn't take long for me to replicate the setup of #MGCYOA in the channel #AMGC, set up with }o{, Internets, and a bot that logs everything.

Q: What's wrong with the current situation?

A: There are two directions to go here, one is a matter of legitimacy and the other activity. For the former, it's never really made sense that the community is run by vote while the moderators are chosen by a dictator.

For the latter, I would note that the current owner hardly plays with the community and doesn't actively seek to pursue its best interests. He's also biased, eager to find fault with those outside his group while forgiving the problems caused by his friends. Two other mods were added without community approval, and they likewise have done little to try and strengthen the community or improve the quality of discussion. Finally, one of the mods left everyone hanging in RP and with regards to the PDFs, for a month, giving no indication of leaving until it happened. Then they returned and became a moderator of the Discord group.

Q: Do you think you're going to win?

A: I don't expect to win. I am far too outspoken, I respond aggressively to provocation, and I push hard for changes to happen. I wouldn't be surprised if three of the current mods won the vote, if nothing else because the community is used to them being in that role.


ooking at the PDF, I concluded (perhaps mistakenly) that she could solo an entire Regiment because, stat wise, Human would never bee able to nail her due to how poor their stats are.
09:32	Trimangle	Nidhogg, sheer volume of fire
09:33	Nidhogg	She could also hide and never be found due to her luck being higher than a Humans.
09:33	Trimangle	especially if it was a field artillery regimenmt
09:33	Trimangle	Like, let's see...
09:33	flashdrive	when it comes to off-screen fights, logic trumps game mechanics
09:33	flashdrive	you have to think whether she could really beat them all off on her own
09:33	Nidhogg	Plus, with the shield generators, she'd have access to 35 soak.
09:33	flashdrive	having them flee in terror is a pretty good way for that to happen, admittedly
09:34	Nidhogg	That is, if she made all of her devices from the Metal spec tree Shield Generators.
09:34	flashdrive	it makes some sense if she can kill enough of them fast enough, and if the shield generators can last long enough
09:34	Torque_	>balanced
09:34	Nidhogg	And she didn't technically beat them, they fled.
09:35	Trimangle	So....
09:35	Nidhogg	Not that this stopped her from running down quite a few of them to give them the "atomic, texan wedgie" someone told her about.
09:35	Trimangle	there are apparently six battalions in the 40th FA Regiment
09:35	Trimangle	each battalion made up of....four batteries?
09:36	Trimangle	If each battery has 160 soldiers
09:36	Trimangle	I -think- there were four.
09:36	Nidhogg	She also destroyed several police precincts, causing anarchy and chaos that they probably had to contend with as well.
09:36	Trimangle	I don't remember hearing about an E Btry
09:37	Torque_	I made a charter for the democratic election of moderators. Please take a look. http://pastebin.com/P2z4D0Du
09:37	Trimangle	640 soldiers in each of six battalions
09:37	Trimangle	that's a -lot- of bodies
09:38	Nidhogg	Which reminds me, can magical girl lasers do anything to tank armor?
09:39	Tangent	lololololo
09:39	Tangent	The salt is real.
09:39	Trimangle	Uhhhm
09:39	Trimangle	Nidhogg, I dunno
09:39	Trimangle	I mean
09:39	Trimangle	the armor on an Abrams MBT is so thick even another Abrams can't pierce it
09:40	flashdrive	that's pretty cool Torque, but things are probably okay as they are to be honest
09:40	Tangent	Enough salt in that pastebin to pickle fish with lol.
09:40	Raincoat	Please Tangent
09:40	Torque_	I'm not happy with the current situation, but I acknowledge your disagreement
09:41	Tangent	No, read it, the salt's real.
09:41	Raincoat	That's not genuine criticism
09:41	Nidhogg	But tone down the anti-Human stuff a bit?
09:42	Jran-Kri	Tangent, please be polite towards Torque's proposal.
09:42	Tangent	Right, right, I'll keep it toned down. S'funny, but yeah.
09:43	BarKeep|Laptop	...
09:43		BarKeep|Laptop feigns surprise
09:45	Nidhogg	Also, the anti-Human rampage music:  [TITLE:
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]  [TITLE:
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09:46	Trimangle	that is a terrible track
09:46	flashdrive	that song is disturbing
09:46	Nidhogg	It's meant to be.
09:46	Nidhogg	Just like the game it's in.
09:47	Trimangle	it's jarring and discordant
09:47	flashdrive	^
09:47	Trimangle	what possible in-game purpose does it serve
09:47	Trimangle	other than to annoy the player
09:47	Nidhogg	It's the theme of a Stalker from Haunting Grounds.
09:47	Nidhogg	All of the Stalkers in that game are psychotic, disturbed and or lunatics.
09:48	Nidhogg	In this case Ricardo, the one that theme belongs to, is an armed rapist who, unlike the other stalkers, is extremely quick.
09:48		*** Torque_ is now known as TorqueAFK
09:48	Nidhogg	He's also the nuttiest.
09:49	flashdrive	wtf kind of game is that
09:49	Raincoat	I support Torque's proposal, if only because at the very least it will validate the current mods
09:49	Nidhogg	Which is saying something given that the first two stalkers are:
09:49	Raincoat	And give a mechanism to remove universally dislliked mods
09:49	Nidhogg	A.) A hamonculus made from a dog placenta.
09:50	Nidhogg	B.) An alchemically altered Maid who is a womb thief.
09:50	flashdrive	Nid pls never mention this game again
09:50	Nidhogg	This game flashdrive: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haunting_Ground
09:50	BarKeep|Laptop	He asked you to NOT mention it, Nidhogg
09:50	Nidhogg	From the makers of the Clock Tower series of games.
09:51	flashdrive
09:51		*** Gaial joined #MGCYOA
09:53	flashdrive	hey Gaial
09:54	Nidhogg	Speaking of games developed by CapCom, I didn't know they made Bionic Commando games.
09:57		*** Carmine joined #MGCYOA
09:57	Carmine	OHIO
09:58	flashdrive	hey Carmine
09:59	memoo	howdy
10:03	Gaial	Oh, hey.
10:03	Gaial	Ugh, Windows is doing that thing where it closes everything once I leave it alone for a bit.
10:05	Carmine	That happens to me quite a bit
10:05	Gaial	Windows Nin- I mean 'Ten'?
10:05	Carmine	'Ten', yes
10:06	Gaial	It wasn't doing it for the longest time,
10:06	Gaial	I think it might be because I was in high performance mode.
10:06		*** Aristocat joined #MGCYOA
10:06	flashdrive	hi Ari
10:07	Gaial	Are you a laptop or a desktop?
10:07	Aristocat	hiya
10:07	memoo	yo
10:07	Carmine	Laptop
10:08	Tangent	Anyway for the record
10:08	Carmine	Kitty cat~
10:08	Trimangle	aristo
10:08	Trimangle	cat
10:08		Carmine pets the kitty
10:08	Aristocat	~~
10:09		Trimangle pats cat
10:09	Gaial	>~~
10:09	Gaial	!lewd
10:09	Molbot	With someone like you? Never!
10:09	Tangent	this vote is a bad idea and I'm against it. We don't have the community to justify mod bloat, there's no reason for an election with a community of our size, the moderation's done a good job to date, and this doesn't feel like it's being suggested because there's an actual problem that needs addressing.
10:10	Carmine	If only /f/ had that one flash of ten people petting a cat...
10:10	Gaial	Tangent: Is there a mod vote going on?
10:10	Raincoat	If the current mod team is good, then the people will vote them in again
10:10	Tangent	Gaial: One person suggested it
10:10	Trimangle	why even have it
10:10	Raincoat	It is best to leave the power in the hands of the community
10:11	Trimangle	this is a solution looking for a problem
10:11	Tangent	The community has no issue with the mods.
10:11	Tangent	Or as tri stole the words from my mouth, yes.
10:12	Raincoat	If there is no problem, why not leave it up to the community then?
10:12	Trimangle	Why set this thing up if there's no problem
10:12	Raincoat	Plus it encourages good mod behavior if they have to gain their spot
10:12	Tangent	Because the community is small enough that this is a ridiculous farce based on no actual issues.
10:12	Raincoat	And I do believe there are problems, though this was Torque's idea
10:13	Trimangle	or it encourages blatant politicking and pandering of the mods
10:13	Raincoat	The mods have clear favorites that mess with their judgement
10:13	Tangent	That, yes. Competent moderation so far has been stable. Hardly, Rain.
10:13	flashdrive	maybe we should have a vote on whether to install this system in the first place?
10:13	Raincoat	Says one of the favorites
10:13	Tangent	Which so far is decidedly negative.
10:13	Tangent	Says the wannabe mod lol.
10:14	flashdrive	>[15:13] <Tangent> Says the wannabe mod lol.   wait me or RC? Because I'd vote against this system being put in place
10:14	Tangent	RC
10:14	flashdrive	ah
10:14	Raincoat	I fully admit this
10:14		*** TorqueAFK is now known as Torque_
10:14	flashdrive	wb Torque
10:15	Raincoat	I think I am more neutral than any of the current mods
10:15	Tangent	Uh huh.
10:15	Raincoat	Yup
10:15	Torque_	FD: At the beginning of the charter, it calls for a vote on the rest of the proceedings.
10:15	Torque_	So what you're asking for is already there.
10:16	Tangent	Frankly, the current mods are reasonable, neutral, and hands-off. This is a silly, salt-fueled "solution" that'll just cause more problems than it solves.
10:16	Torque_	Repost: http://pastebin.com/P2z4D0Du
10:16	flashdrive	that's fine then
10:16	Raincoat	I reach out to even people I don't like in order to achieve compromise on issues, and I have criticized my friends
10:16	flashdrive	I must have missed that
10:16	Gaial	Maybe it should be me~~~
10:16	Raincoat	Just because Torque has suggested this for shitty reasons doesn't mean it's a bad idea
10:16	Gaial	Or maybe I should just leave the convo like I usually do.
10:16	Tangent	It kinda of does.
10:16	flashdrive	I kinda wanna be a mod, but BK always says no :'3
10:16	Tangent	Hi Gaial
10:16	BarKeep|Laptop	You all realize that this is likely due to Torque recieving a strike for attempting to bribe me into changing my votes in the Voting Pad, yes?
10:16	Raincoat	You're allowing your dislike of him to cloud your judgement
10:16	Tangent	Okay, Bar brought up the elephant in the room.
10:17	Trimangle	He did
10:17	Trimangle	and now it's out in the open
10:17	Tangent	Yes, this is solely due to Torque getting caught for trying to vote rig.
10:17	Tangent	And now he wants to make moderation of the channel based on votes.
10:17	Tangent	I wonder why that might be,
10:17	Gaial	What? Hi Tangent, you already knew I was here, are you trying to say something?
10:17	Raincoat	I am against vote rigging
10:17	Trimangle	This really does seem, based on what Tangent said, to be motiviated by this event
10:17	Tangent	sorry, my bad, got sidetracked.
10:17	Raincoat	But this idea is still good
10:17	Trimangle	Raincoat, this idea is kinda shite
10:18	WhiteKnight	what the blue monkey hell happened lately
10:18	Trimangle	It's a solution looking for a problem
10:18	Tangent	Torque tried to vote rig.
10:18		*** WhiteMobile joined #MGCYOA
10:18	Raincoat	For too long the mods have shown no internal consistancy in punishments and have pandered to their friends, rather than being truly neutral and impartial
10:18	WhiteKnight	I hear, I want details
10:18	Tangent	Which of course is why Necro, me, and Bar are on the last strike, yes?
10:18	BarKeep|Laptop	WK, check the Puush link
10:18	Trimangle	Raincoat, making moderator positions based on votes is going to do no good for that issue
10:18	Raincoat	Bar should have been banned
10:19	BarKeep|Laptop	Yup, I've got two.
10:19	Tangent	Ban RPers. Brilliant.
10:19	Raincoat	Instead he only gets many warning
10:19	Raincoat	I don't want him banned either
10:19	Tangent	Rain, if your moderator platform is "run out the guillotine" I think you may want to rethink your election strategy.
10:19	WhiteMobile	Post again, my laptop is dying
10:19	Raincoat	But it is internally inconsistant
10:19	Raincoat	Actualy tangent
10:19		*** Fredward joined #MGCYOA
10:19	Raincoat	I support a strike forgiveness system
10:20	BarKeep|Laptop
10:20	Raincoat	Because I think people can change
10:20	flashdrive	BK hasn't done anything severe enough to deserve a ban. He's just salty sometimes
10:20	flashdrive	lol
10:20	BarKeep|Laptop	Extremely salty
10:20	Tangent	Basically, Rain, you're saying people should be banned on the one hand
10:20	BarKeep|Laptop	So salty that horses love me (salt-lick)
10:20	Tangent	and saying the system needs to have forgiveness  on the other
10:20	Tangent	 this is not entirely consistent
10:20	Tangent	But it's academic
10:20	Torque_	I won't pretend that what I did is unimpeachable, but it was a lapse in judgment that I made once, in frustration over a legitimate concern over the good of the community. I also turned around and gave Bar the image anyways without the obligation.
10:20	flashdrive	I'd support separating strikes from bans. 3 strikes -> temp ban. Only something really bad should lead to a permaban
10:20	Raincoat	I think the internal logic of our current ban system supports that he should be banned
10:21	Raincoat	But I disagree with that current internal logic
10:21	Tangent	And of course Torque promptly lashed out at the mods right after getting punished.
10:21	Tangent	This is clearly not him holding a grudge in any way, something even Rain admits.
10:21	Raincoat	You both love to hold grudges
10:21	Tangent	To put it bluntly, what he did is something that threatens the whole process of system development.
10:21	WhiteMobile	Well ain't this a delicious blend
10:22	Tangent	Because TRUST is what makes that work.
10:22	WhiteMobile	Hear hear, especially community systems
10:22	Tangent	I didn't like Torque much lately but I did trust him to do his job. I've said as much.
10:22	Tangent	That's the real issue, not "are the mods okay" because they obviously are.
10:23		Carmine picks up Aristokitty and moves away from the clusterfuck to pet it
10:23	BarKeep|Laptop	I actually had a, begrudging, respect for him.
10:23	Tangent	Basically, Torque should focus less on trying to mount a palace coup of the channel
10:23	Tangent	and more on fixing his own shortcomings
10:23	Aristocat	pls
10:23	Raincoat	How is calling for a vote a coup?
10:23	Tangent	It pretty much is when the intent is 'fuck the mods'
10:24	Raincoat	No it isn't
10:24	Tangent	And giving one of them the boot when all three are doing their jobs just fine as needed basiclaly is that
10:24	Tangent	Like seriously.
10:24	flashdrive	guys pls
10:24	flashdrive	vote rigging is bad, but it seems pretty clear that Torque was trying to do what he thought was right, not just trying to gain power or whatever
10:24	Tangent	Maybe if we had a larger community, the idea would be justified, but right now we have enough users for a stable userbase of regular RPers and just a bit more.
10:25	Tangent	Read the last paragraph
10:25	Tangent	It's pure salt/
10:25	Gaial	BC: >VBA pinned to taskbar      You my nigga.
10:25	Raincoat	I will stop this dicussion if Tangent stops, but until then I will continue to argue
10:25	Tangent	I think I've said my piece.
10:25	WhiteMobile	Literally the Old Age of DSD Shitposting
10:25	flashdrive	>A: I don't expect to win. I am far too outspoken, I respond aggressively to provocation, and I push hard for changes to happen. I wouldn't be surprised if three of the current mods won the vote, if nothing else because the community is used to them being in that role.
10:25	Tangent	Scroll up a bit.
10:25	WhiteMobile	REPLACE THE MODS AAAAAAAA
10:26	Raincoat	There's nothing wrong with a system for mods being changed to be in place
10:26	Trimangle	there is when there doesn't need to be
10:26	flashdrive	oh. Well, disliking the mods isn't a crime, even if most of us (including myself) disagree with what he's saying about them
10:27	Gaial	Whoops, meant BK. I are an idiot.
10:27	Tangent	To put it bluntly, we don't have the community to justify a pointless turnover and if that's not the intent, why even bother?
10:27	Tangent	None of the mods are incompetent.
10:27	Tangent	None of them have done anything that justifies a replacement.
10:27	flashdrive	I mean, I agree with that
10:27		*** WhiteKnight quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
10:27	Tangent	It really boils down to this
10:27	Tangent	Have the mods done a good job?
10:27		*** Zene|AFK is now known as Zene
10:27	Tangent	I think the answer is yes.
10:28	Tangent	They're good people, tolerant and reasonable.
10:28	Zene	<Torque_> I won't pretend that what I did is unimpeachable, but it was a lapse in judgment that I made once, in frustration over a legitimate concern over the good of the community. I also turned around and gave Bar the image anyways without the obligation.
10:28	Zene	[7 days after the lapse in judgement]
10:28	Zene	<TorqueAFK> I understand this: People can vote against things for selfish reasons, so they might as well vote for them for selfish reasons
10:28	Zene	<TorqueAFK> I don't see how it's any of your business. I have not broken any rules, nor do I agree with your assessment of its rightfulness or not. It is a fact that making deals is a normal part of the democratic process.
10:28	Zene	<TorqueAFK> Bribery is not always unjustified, and you as a mod have no particular authority over the process by which AMGC is advanced.
Ah I see you're here to start selective quoting
10:29	Tangent	And here we go.
10:29	flashdrive	see
10:29	Tangent	I don't think any context justifies that
10:29	flashdrive	this is why monarchy/oligarchy>democracy
10:29	Trimangle	Torque, I have the quote right here -- there's not "nothing wrong" with buying someone's vote when they don't want to vote a particular way
10:29	Tangent	Basically, the thing is that it fundamentally isn't democratic to rig the vote.
10:30	Trimangle	That isn't 'compromise,' that's 'bribery' and 'corruption'
10:30	Raincoat	I would have proposed this myself if Torque didn't, to be frank
10:30	Carmine	I honestly do not give a shit about who becomes mods or how mods are selected, as long as things stay the way they have been
10:30	Torque_	There's nothing wrong with it when it's for the greater good
10:30	Fredward	hai
10:30	Raincoat	And I find that fact the Torque to have attempted rigging to be despicable
10:30	Trimangle	in your opinion, Torque_ .
10:30	Trimangle	In your opinion
10:30	Torque_	but it isn't consistent with democratic principles, that I agree with
10:30	Raincoat	And the greater good is defined differently by different folks
10:30	flashdrive	I'm not actually that angry with the attempted 'rigging' because he's just trying to buy one vote and he failed anyway
10:31	Tangent	This is a PROBLEM when we're designing the system by commitee.
10:31	Tangent	I think it should never have happened and I'm alarmed he still doesn't get that he did something wrong.
10:31	flashdrive	the problem is: Torque, you've got to recognise that the whole reason we're voting is because no one person knows what this community needs best, so we need this kind of peer review
10:31	Tangent	Not just because I can't stand the guy, just on a morality level.
10:31	Tangent	or what flash said
10:31	Torque_	Let's look at the harm caused here: None. Let's look at the potential harm: None. I do recognize that flashdrive.
10:32	Trimangle	the harm caused is not 'none'
10:32	Trimangle	the potential harm was not 'none'
10:32	Torque_	actually it is
10:33	Tangent	Every time a change happens now
10:33	Tangent	we need to wonder if Torque meddled with the vote.
10:33	Tangent	I don't think this is a good thing.
10:33	Tangent	I want Torque to understand why he shouldn't do this,.
10:33	Tangent	Not because I dislike him but because I want to be able to trust him to edit the system neutrally.
10:33	Raincoat	There was more than No Potential Harm Torque
10:33	Trimangle	Torque, by your own admission, you've betrayed democratic principles and tried to unfairly influence someone's vote
10:33	flashdrive	Torque, come on, if you recognised that you wouldn't just see your opinion as the greater good. If other people voted against your proposal, you need to try another proposal rather than trying to ignore why they're voting against it
10:34	Raincoat	We can't have elections decided by whoever has the bigger tangible reward to give
10:34	Torque_	The current reality is that people like Zene and Blind Choir vote against these changes because they have characters who abuse them. That selfish motive is just as wrong, and in my eyes necessitates correction. The ends justify the means.
10:34	Tangent	Oh FFS
10:34	Raincoat	Some ends justify some means
10:34	Raincoat	I disagree with these means
10:34	flashdrive	even if that was true, the people who abuse it aren't exactly the majority Torque
10:35	Raincoat	eh
10:35	Trimangle	Torque, the point remains you betrayed democratic principles and attempted to corrupt the system
10:35	Raincoat	^
10:35	Trimangle	that does -not- make the end justify the means
10:35	Raincoat	If you do stat to bribe
10:36	Raincoat	It means you are ok with selfish voting
10:37	Torque_	My entire direction with all of these changes is to even the playing field between optimizers and normal roleplayers. Seeing the community vote to preserve blood magic was a constant irritation to me because it's blatantly in the other direction, and people voting like Zene don't even play the fucking system.
10:37	Tangent	...
10:37	Trimangle	that's besides the point.
10:37	Tangent	What the fuck?
10:37	Trimangle	that's not the point right now.
10:37	Torque_	And it's not like I tampered with the results, I just offered someone an incentive to change.
10:37	Tangent	That IS tampering with the fucking results!
10:37	Trimangle	Stop trying to justify it!
10:37	Tangent	It shows a lack of integrity!
10:38	Tangent	Of following the rules set down that everyone believes in!
10:38	Tangent	You basically lied to everyone's faces by omission...
10:38	Raincoat	Offering someone a tangible reward for swapping points on an issue corrupts the process
10:38	Torque_	It is justified in fact, just not in principle.
10:38	Tangent	What really, really disturbs me
10:38	Tangent	Is that Torque can't admit he was wrong on this.
10:38	flashdrive	it's not justified in fact either, Torque
10:38	Tangent	He hasn't said that he made a mistake.
10:38	Raincoat	I agree that people are wrong about Blood magic
10:38	Tangent	He hasn't promised never to do it again.
10:38	Raincoat	But trying to strong arm the change will not help
10:39	flashdrive	you can't just assume they're doing it for their own gain
10:39	Raincoat	We have to work with everyone to come up with a fitting compromise
10:39	Tangent	In short, the guy in charge of making sure everyone's voices are heard is ignoring what they have to say because he thinks he knows better.
10:39	flashdrive	they're voting that way* I mean
10:39	Tangent	There are many things I would do differently if I ran AMGC. But I get that I don't.
10:39	Trimangle	Ignoring what people have to say and trying to convince them to say what -he- wants them to say
10:39	Tangent	I sulked. I snapped a bit (sorry 'bout that flash)
10:39	Tangent	but at the end of the day, I get that I don't run AMGC
10:40	flashdrive	oh Tan, I was directing that statement at Torque, not you
10:40	BarKeep|Laptop	Hell, even I get that.
10:40	Torque_	In any case, with my reputation destroyed by BK's revelation I'll go ahead and leave. But you should still vote for moderators, and rules should not be enforced retroactively.
10:40	Raincoat	Flashdrive: Some people are certianly doing for their own gain. But we should expect people voting out of self-intrest. It's a natural part of democracy
10:40	BarKeep|Laptop	Most of the time.
10:40	Tangent	And I have no right to cram that down everyone's throats for as long as I don't make the system
10:40	flashdrive	he assumed Zene and BC were only voting that way for their own gain
10:40		*** Torque_ left #MGCYOA (Leaving)
10:40	Tangent	Sigh.
10:40	Tangent	He'll be back. I just wish he'd...well, learn from his mistakes.
10:40	Carmine	Politics is a bitch
10:40	Tangent	It's pointless.
10:41		Trimangle =_=
10:41		Carmine pats Aristocat
10:41	flashdrive	we piled on him too much I think
10:41	Tangent	It wouldn't have mattered.
10:41	Trimangle	he needed the piling
10:41	Trimangle	he's still convince he's jsutified
10:41	Tangent	Don't feel bad. Torque's issue is that he can't admit he made a mistake and that's what this was.
10:41	Tangent	Yep.
10:41	WhiteMobile	That was some serious cognitive dissonance
10:42	Tangent	Self-righteousness taken to the logical extreme.
10:42	Fredward	dumb campaign idea number 4.
10:42	Trimangle	I don't know how one can feel they're justified as they're actively corrupting the voting process
10:42	BarKeep|Laptop	You know what's funny
10:42	BarKeep|Laptop	He admitted to me before
10:42	WhiteMobile	The end justifies the means even if it undermines our process and leads to a worse potential end down the line
10:42	flashdrive	it was arrogance, really
10:42	WhiteMobile	whoosh
10:42	Fredward	"there once was a mahou named Gold Roger, who was king of the mahous."
10:42	BarKeep|Laptop	that he has trouble admitting that he's wrong
10:42	BarKeep|Laptop	or seeing that he could be wrong.
10:42	Tangent	Pretty much.
10:43	Tangent	Three words "I was wrong."
10:43	BarKeep|Laptop	HE IS SELF-AWARE OF IT
10:43	Carmine	FRED, I'M ALREADY DOING A PIRATE ADVENTURE, PISS OFF
10:43	Tangent	Torque flipped out when someone compared me to him once.
10:43	flashdrive	maybe we should have given him more time to say he was wrong?
10:43	BarKeep|Laptop	To be fair, you flipped out when you were compared to DSD.
10:43	Fredward	Carmine, but is it MAGICAL GIRL PIRATES?
10:43	Tangent	The irony here is that I think they were onto something, but I'd like to think I have a bit more self-awareness.
10:43		*** Raincoat is now known as RaincoatAFK
10:43	Carmine	YES
10:43	Fredward	I want in
10:43	Tangent	WHERE ARE PIRATES
10:43	flashdrive	WOAH WHAT
10:43	flashdrive	I want in too!
10:43	Tangent	Anyway, the real joke is
10:44	WhiteMobile	MAHOU KAIZOKU?!
10:44	Tangent	Torque's rant just now?
10:44	Carmine	THEN GET YOUR CHARACTER TO BE FRIENDS WITH MY CHARACTER THEN THEY MIGHT BE INVITED
10:44	Tangent	Would make an amazing mahou.
10:44		*** Tawa joined #MGCYOA
10:44	Tangent	No, seriously, tell me that rant wasn't a good character scene...only if it was IC.