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DaWinci/Seraph logs posted 3/28/2017

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  1. [12/20/2015 3:44:10 PM] *** Seraph Basarab would like to add you on Skype
  2.  
  3. Hi Da_Winci, I'd like to add you as a contact. ***
  4. [12/20/2015 3:44:56 PM] *** Da_Winci has shared contact details with Seraph Basarab. ***
  5. [12/20/2015 4:34:49 PM] Seraph Basarab: [3:22:58 PM] Moxich: they are a lot more capable than fcon and rzr
  6. [3:23:03 PM] Seraph Basarab: This is true
  7. [3:23:42 PM] Seraph Basarab: Ok so agreement as it stands. Co2 and OOS don't hit each others towers. Co2 does not show up to defend towers belonging to other cfc members. i'm talking with l0ser and nync
  8. [3:28:52 PM] Moxich: We're okay with that
  9. [3:28:54 PM] Moxich: generally
  10. [3:29:09 PM] Moxich: but we want several days to check which poses are where
  11. [3:29:22 PM] Moxich: so that they can have ones they got easy to defend
  12. [3:29:36 PM] Moxich: and vice versa
  13. [12/20/2015 5:46:06 PM] Da_Winci: you mentioned you talked to SisterBliss right?
  14. [12/20/2015 5:48:39 PM] Seraph Basarab: Ive spoken with him before, not specifically on this subject. However I have assets in place within Init that have felt around regarding their sentiments about the CFC. Their opinion is the same one you expressed.
  15. [12/20/2015 5:57:03 PM] Da_Winci: pls keep me posted on how they would actually react when what we discussed becomes a reality
  16. [12/20/2015 5:57:50 PM] Seraph Basarab: I can be a middle person between you two as well. Ill find out and then let him know that "someone else" in the same position as him feels like him
  17. [12/20/2015 5:58:49 PM] Da_Winci: i'm quite sure he already knows
  18. [12/21/2015 4:58:33 AM] Seraph Basarab: Here's another idea. Im thinking of having project mayhem focus on bastion in order to leave you guys alone but also make bastion more dependent on you rather than goons
  19. [12/22/2015 4:46:18 PM] Seraph Basarab: So OOS is on board with the NAP regarding towers.
  20. [12/22/2015 4:47:17 PM] Da_Winci: you're going waaay too fast. I didnt even agree on the proposal
  21. [12/22/2015 4:47:34 PM] Seraph Basarab: I simply said they were on board.
  22. [12/22/2015 4:47:42 PM] Seraph Basarab: They're Ok with the idea.
  23. [12/22/2015 4:51:20 PM] Da_Winci: good to know then
  24. [12/22/2015 4:51:33 PM] Da_Winci: any word on PL plans?
  25. [12/22/2015 4:51:49 PM] Da_Winci: or the imminent attack on CO2?
  26. [12/22/2015 4:53:55 PM] Seraph Basarab: OOS knows that they are there but they won't tell them why.
  27. [12/22/2015 4:54:02 PM] Seraph Basarab: PL won't tell OOS why they are there*
  28. [12/22/2015 4:54:23 PM] Da_Winci: oh well - if OOS knows it's not Mittens that is hiring them
  29. [12/22/2015 4:54:43 PM] Seraph Basarab: I dont think they would know.
  30. [12/22/2015 4:54:48 PM] Seraph Basarab: but ill ask
  31. [12/22/2015 4:55:27 PM] Da_Winci: might be a PL sig deploying for Christmas
  32. [12/22/2015 4:56:05 PM] Seraph Basarab: Carpe Noctem is the PL corp formed out of former Black Legion...mostly Origin guys
  33. [12/22/2015 4:56:35 PM] Da_Winci: yep, widely known
  34. [12/22/2015 5:07:00 PM] Seraph Basarab: I mean it's really just up to you at this point how to handle it regarding the moons. But I put it up on the table for you.
  35. [12/22/2015 5:08:11 PM] Da_Winci: I do appreciate your efforts - but keep in mind I'm not in a hurry at all
  36. [12/22/2015 5:08:43 PM] Seraph Basarab: That's fine. Status quo can be maintained regarding moons until you are ready.
  37. [12/23/2015 4:28:19 PM] Seraph Basarab: OOS leadership would like to hear your analysis of how you think such an agreement would benefit them.
  38. [12/24/2015 7:50:34 AM] Da_Winci: short term no benefits I think. I'm sure the status quo provides them and us enough opportunities to hold moons and get content. Any agreement would not benefit us in the short term.  Moons in Venal are mostly earmarked meaning that we won't ever hold excessive amounts of them.
  39. [12/24/2015 7:52:56 AM] Da_Winci: Longer term the trend of less cohesion in the coalition will ultimately lead to alliances holding what they can hold/defend themselves.  Again, that's not even a secret analysis... there is broad consensus on this.
  40. [12/24/2015 7:55:44 AM] Da_Winci: OOS is quite capable of holding a large portion of valuable moons. With our without an agreement.  And letting evolution take its course will lead to that situation.  With or without an agreement.
  41. [12/24/2015 7:57:08 AM] Da_Winci: So both them and us shouldnt be in any hurry - just not acting stupid and let nature take its course.
  42. [12/24/2015 8:01:22 AM] Da_Winci: If we would go all out on OOS we could hurt them way more than they could ever hurt us.  That is in no way a threat, it's a mere objective opinion.  We have no intention of doing so, the situation as it is suits us fine.  Mutual understanding that when shit hits the fan we could discuss "things" is enough for me right now
  43. [12/24/2015 8:04:03 AM] Da_Winci: that said - time for Christmas festivities - talk later
  44. [1/4/2016 12:26:41 AM] Seraph Basarab: Well PL's been active around you guys for sure....
  45. [1/5/2016 3:07:36 PM] Seraph Basarab: What are your thoughts on the situation
  46. [1/5/2016 3:08:21 PM] Da_Winci: strange you start this convo while we're having our asses spanked in Venal :)
  47. [1/5/2016 3:09:07 PM] Seraph Basarab: I didn't mean to be insensitive.
  48. [1/5/2016 3:09:15 PM] Da_Winci: no worries
  49. [1/5/2016 3:09:42 PM] Da_Winci: i'm just seeing the ironic coincidence here
  50. [1/5/2016 3:09:58 PM] Da_Winci: let me try to get my Lachesis safe
  51. [1/5/2016 3:32:36 PM] Da_Winci: safed up
  52. [1/5/2016 3:32:53 PM] Da_Winci: so what situation were you referring to?
  53. [1/5/2016 3:33:05 PM] Seraph Basarab: well PL hitting some big assets of yours and all that
  54. [1/5/2016 3:33:14 PM] Seraph Basarab: you mentioned that you saw them moving close by
  55. [1/5/2016 3:33:35 PM] Seraph Basarab: and we were talking about the idea of goons wrecking co2 in order to absorb its members into more docile alliances
  56. [1/5/2016 3:33:54 PM] Da_Winci: on PL
  57. [1/5/2016 3:34:37 PM] Da_Winci: it wasnt an alliance fleet... some retards still thinking they were in BASTION and acting accordingly
  58. [1/5/2016 3:34:43 PM] Da_Winci: they're grounded
  59. [1/5/2016 3:34:53 PM] Da_Winci: on Goons
  60. [1/5/2016 3:35:04 PM] Da_Winci: same as ever
  61. [1/5/2016 3:35:48 PM] Da_Winci: tho I notice you fine tuned it to them trying to get our corps into more docile alliances
  62. [1/5/2016 3:36:17 PM] Da_Winci: that plan will fail.. if anything I say the opposite trend
  63. [1/5/2016 3:36:45 PM] Da_Winci: i.e we fight and provide content - pvp hungry corps join CO2
  64. [1/5/2016 3:37:06 PM] Seraph Basarab: Well that is what I would do anyway. Rather than just kill the alliance you want to absorb the members, like they did with bat country and anyone who distances themselves
  65. [1/5/2016 3:37:45 PM] Da_Winci: that is underestimating our abiltiy to walk that fine line
  66. [1/5/2016 3:38:14 PM] Da_Winci: shedding unwanted corps from Goons is one thing
  67. [1/5/2016 3:38:43 PM] Da_Winci: getting them to join docile alliances is totally different
  68. [1/5/2016 3:39:31 PM] Da_Winci: everyone is craving for some content - narrative and what not, we kinda provide just that
  69. [1/5/2016 3:40:12 PM] Da_Winci: so losing those caps to PL didnt change that a single bit
  70. [1/5/2016 3:41:48 PM] Seraph Basarab: It's funny I have maybe half a dozen directors/leaders in the cfc that dont like being under goons and everyone's kind of waiting for "the other guy" to start the revolution.
  71. [1/5/2016 3:42:21 PM] Da_Winci: yep - but that wont ever come from within goons
  72. [1/5/2016 3:43:01 PM] Da_Winci: It will have to be goons making a capital mistake and not being able to deal with the fall out
  73. [1/5/2016 3:43:27 PM] Da_Winci: like directly attacking a coalition member
  74. [1/5/2016 3:44:10 PM] Da_Winci: look, in terms of content and storyline - PM is evaccing Lonetrek
  75. [1/5/2016 3:44:32 PM] Da_Winci: that is a direct result of CO2 pushing that little bit harder
  76. [1/5/2016 3:44:45 PM] Da_Winci: (and some mistakes they made internally)
  77. [1/5/2016 3:45:24 PM] Da_Winci: our guys know that - goons know that - Bastions knows it - TNT knows - Lawn knows
  78. [1/5/2016 3:45:49 PM] Da_Winci: goons would be idiots to attack us at this point
  79. [1/5/2016 3:46:04 PM] Da_Winci: the whole coalition is a mexican stand-off
  80. [1/5/2016 3:50:14 PM] Seraph Basarab: We are blazing SMA hard. Last night we bumped out 3 orcas 1 rorq and 1 charon with an SMA alt
  81. [1/5/2016 3:50:18 PM] Seraph Basarab: got the whole corp kicked
  82. [1/5/2016 3:51:14 PM] Da_Winci: SMA - I read the blogpost of those guys that left... spot on analysis
  83. [1/5/2016 3:51:53 PM] Da_Winci: but they can afford to shed the low hanging fruit - they still have insane numbers
  84. [1/5/2016 3:52:07 PM] Da_Winci: (tho shit doctrines to put them in)
  85. [1/18/2016 11:29:20 AM] Da_Winci: Your article was good, but you are picking on the wrong alliance.
  86. [1/18/2016 11:31:25 AM] Da_Winci: If anything, this will strengthen them in the belief that the cfc is their only (and last) resort. And seen their geographical position they have no alternative.
  87. [1/18/2016 11:32:03 AM] Da_Winci: I think it's time for another conversation.
  88. [1/18/2016 11:33:37 AM] Da_Winci: Why you think goons put them there? And how does having that enclave affect their thinking? Rhetorical questions ofc
  89. [1/18/2016 1:42:16 PM] Seraph Basarab: Yeah i'm smacking them with one hand and then going to caress their face with the other.
  90. [1/22/2016 4:21:56 PM] Seraph Basarab: What's new in your area
  91. [1/22/2016 4:28:11 PM] Da_Winci: The usual shit. We trying to do our own thing, CD trying to get us on a leash :)
  92. [1/22/2016 4:28:21 PM] Da_Winci: Same story different day
  93. [1/22/2016 4:29:02 PM] Da_Winci: And like I said, more alliances realizing what we knew 2 years ago
  94. [1/22/2016 4:30:10 PM] Da_Winci: Oh and trying to get our own guy in csm
  95. [1/22/2016 4:30:41 PM] Da_Winci: Wassup on your side. I see you stepped up the coordinated attacks.
  96. [1/22/2016 4:32:36 PM] Seraph Basarab: Not even sure if the csm thing is serious. On our side we're wrecking SMA and internally they are freaking out. They deployed capswarm to fade to rat up indexes and set up bait while SMA evaced one of their constellations we were hitting hardest.
  97. [1/22/2016 4:33:53 PM] Da_Winci: Like I said, wrong target. Seen their position they're not the weakest link.
  98. [1/22/2016 4:34:38 PM] Da_Winci: But hey, who am I ? :)
  99. [1/22/2016 4:36:14 PM] Seraph Basarab: They're not the weakest but who are we to argue with 1 trillion isk
  100. [1/22/2016 4:49:09 PM] Da_Winci: If you can't put 1 trillion to good use even 5 trillion won't keep you alive :)
  101. [1/22/2016 4:49:31 PM] Da_Winci: Alliance meeting in 10, preparing.
  102. [1/22/2016 4:49:44 PM] Seraph Basarab: sounds like the client's problem
  103. [1/22/2016 4:51:10 PM] Da_Winci: Client as in?
  104. [1/22/2016 4:51:27 PM] Seraph Basarab: IWI is paying us to fuck SMA up over their little drama
  105. [1/22/2016 4:56:00 PM] Da_Winci: From where I stand it's not affecting them hugely. Inconvenient at best.
  106. [1/22/2016 4:58:45 PM] Seraph Basarab: Well it's not going to make the 2nd biggest alliance in Eve crumble over night ofc
  107. [1/22/2016 5:01:31 PM] Da_Winci: have to do an alliance meeting now - busy for an hour or so
  108. [1/22/2016 5:01:46 PM] Da_Winci: if you're still around we should talk
  109. [1/22/2016 5:01:57 PM] Da_Winci: if not, nice talking to you again
  110. [1/22/2016 5:02:06 PM] Seraph Basarab: alright sure
  111. [1/22/2016 7:10:17 PM] Seraph Basarab: still around btw
  112. [1/22/2016 7:31:07 PM] Da_Winci: and i'm back
  113. [1/22/2016 7:31:16 PM] Da_Winci: wanna have that chat?
  114. [1/22/2016 7:32:54 PM] Seraph Basarab: sure
  115. [1/22/2016 7:32:59 PM] Seraph Basarab: your ts?
  116. [1/22/2016 7:33:09 PM] Da_Winci: preferably yes
  117. [1/22/2016 7:34:31 PM] Da_Winci: you still have the adress?
  118. [1/22/2016 7:34:41 PM] Seraph Basarab: yeah give me a sec
  119. [1/22/2016 7:36:14 PM] Seraph Basarab: dusan here
  120. [1/22/2016 8:34:09 PM] Seraph Basarab: back
  121. [1/26/2016 10:52:15 PM] Seraph Basarab: https://zkillboard.com/br/68094/
  122.  
  123. Nice
  124. [1/27/2016 8:05:06 AM] Da_Winci: Specially cause it was our second FC, not gigX. Happy to have 2 FCs capable of pulling that off
  125. [1/29/2016 8:44:08 AM] Da_Winci: What is the diversion for what? CR for Venal or the other way around?
  126. [2/11/2016 4:30:11 AM] Seraph Basarab: I heard gigx and OOS had a chat. That was good to see.
  127. [2/11/2016 4:57:28 AM] Da_Winci: GigX spends some time in venal and they happen to run into each other. Talking never hurt anyone.
  128. [2/11/2016 5:01:46 AM] Da_Winci: On that subject, the dreads suggestion was, and within the current situation remain, ridiculous
  129. [2/11/2016 5:02:06 AM] Seraph Basarab: Why do you think so?
  130. [2/11/2016 5:23:38 AM] Da_Winci: Explain me how you hide those? And in general, I'm not inclined to give anyone a stick to beat us with.
  131. [2/11/2016 5:25:08 AM] Seraph Basarab: Well first off OSS and OOS would be working together. The assumption is that Gigx's agreement with OOS could extend to OSS as well. In short, no one is going to beat you with that stick. As for hiding them, I assume you're free to build dreads. How hard can it be to trickle them into Venal? If we need an alt middleman to transfer them SAUS is prepared to do that as well.
  132. [2/11/2016 5:29:34 AM] Da_Winci: I'm not in the least worried about anyone of you hitting us with that.
  133. [2/11/2016 5:30:14 AM] Seraph Basarab: What's your concern then?
  134. [2/11/2016 5:31:16 AM] Da_Winci: But it doesn't appeal to me to have up to 300 dreads in venal to threaten our interest there. And most importantly, it would be the fast lane out of the coalition
  135. [2/11/2016 5:32:57 AM] Da_Winci: And as I keep saying, I'm not in a hurry. Not at all. So that is the stick that might be used. Talking to all of you is meh, whatever, we all talk all the time. 100 dreads is a big stick.
  136. [2/11/2016 5:34:04 AM] Seraph Basarab: I'm not sure I follow. You said you weren't worried about "anyone of you" using the dreads. but then you state that having dreads in venal is a threat. Then are you worried SUAS would pass those dreads onto someone else?
  137. [2/11/2016 5:34:21 AM] Seraph Basarab: (btw its 100 dreads. 300 is what he wants to pay)
  138. [2/11/2016 5:36:07 AM] Da_Winci: 300 is what you, oos and pl would have there. And the payment is peanuts compared to what we'd lose if evicted at this point.
  139. [2/11/2016 5:37:10 AM] Da_Winci: Look, goons are trying very hard to find anything that would hurt our prestige atm. Anything would do to build a narrative and hit in co2
  140. [2/11/2016 5:37:50 AM] Da_Winci: I'm not going to give them the pleasure of finding anything.
  141. [2/11/2016 5:39:48 AM] Da_Winci: I worked for 2,5 years to get us into this position (being able to do what we want, grow steadily and become influential). Obviously CD doesn't like that. But I can just ignore their bitching and them being 'overlords'.
  142. [2/11/2016 5:41:05 AM] Da_Winci: Eventually they will kill themselves. In my opinion rather sooner than later. And we will be in a position to stand alone (unlike most others).
  143. [2/11/2016 5:41:37 AM] Da_Winci: So in that context I'm not going to upset the subtle balance (in any direction)
  144. [2/11/2016 5:41:57 AM] Da_Winci: Makes sense?
  145. [2/11/2016 5:48:34 AM] Seraph Basarab: Just to be clear, no one on our side wants to evict co2. People that are in the know, the very few and quiet people I can trust, are very willing to work with you. If you are concerned about Goons evicting you, I have to wonder if something has changed recently because in the past when we have spoken you seemed very confident in being able to stand up to them and hold your territory. In any case this scenario where Co2 waits around for the CFC to just kill itself and be a strong independent alliance is not feasible. You cannot wait idle and then reap the benefits of a fallen CFC. You'll need to participate and take initiative. I'm not commanding you to do this I'm simply saying that I'm not going to be able to stand up and say "wait guys leave Co2 be they're really cool guys" if you'll just be idle and show up after GSF is ruined. A storm is coming to smash everything in its path. If the sails on your ship are not pointing in the right direction, there is nothing I can do to help. If you think the CFC can withstand it this time, by all means do what is right for your alliance...but since you believe they are on the brink of falling apart "sooner rather than later" I would advise that you set those sails in a direction that would bring you the most benefit.
  146.  
  147. This dread oppertunity can easily be done in a smart way. It would also mean a lot to me who has been advocating on your behalf because I do view Co2 as a valuable alliance. You have to give me something here.
  148. [2/11/2016 5:52:53 AM] Seraph Basarab: And you know just as well as I do that the GSF is not interested in having a coalition of equals. Sooner or later you'll get in their crosshairs. Co2 will not be able to grow into what you want it to with the GSF always looming over head. Their modus operandi is always to absorb the talent from their allies with their mass resources and seats of position.
  149. [2/11/2016 8:57:11 AM] Da_Winci: You told me, claimed even, that goons were getting ready to 'invade' us. None of the signs I can see point(ed) in that direction. They would be retarted to slaughter their most capable pvp alliance.
  150. [2/11/2016 8:57:29 AM] Da_Winci: Still possible, but highly unlikely still
  151. [2/11/2016 8:57:59 AM] Seraph Basarab: I said that I had heard some sources within Goons say they had less then friendly designs for Co2. I never claimed "Goons were getting ready to invade you."
  152. [2/11/2016 8:58:52 AM] Da_Winci: There have always been those sentiments within goons. And always will be. That is something we've been dealing with for years.
  153. [2/11/2016 9:00:32 AM] Seraph Basarab: In any case my previous point stands. Should I inform OSS they'll be able to purchase the dreads from you or not?
  154. [2/11/2016 12:23:50 PM] Da_Winci: See, TNT is about to lose their biggest Corp (northstar cabal) even without outside pressure. Now tell me where the urgency is for us.
  155. [2/11/2016 12:27:17 PM] Seraph Basarab: I think the urgency lies in showing the other groups fighting the CFC that you'd actually fight as well. Let's say CFC starts dying as their enemies push on them. Why would Co2 be spared?
  156. [2/11/2016 12:28:17 PM] Da_Winci: Because we are in a position now that even goons realize that if we fail the cfc is dead in the water.
  157. [2/11/2016 12:29:00 PM] Da_Winci: Gives us the luxury of doing things when we want to
  158. [2/11/2016 12:29:50 PM] Da_Winci: We are in agreement of the base line here. But in no way will I be pushed to overplay my hand
  159. [2/11/2016 12:30:01 PM] Da_Winci: *on
  160. [2/11/2016 12:31:52 PM] Da_Winci: And I see your reasoning. I even agree. But trust me that my view on things is, seen my position, broader. No offense meant, I play my cards in a different context.
  161. [2/11/2016 12:34:00 PM] Seraph Basarab: This isn't me making this call so I hope you don't misunderstand me. But to state it very simply, if the CFC falls and Co2 does not contribute to that eventuality, those that fight the CFC won't have any reason to distinguish between co2 and gsf.
  162. [2/11/2016 12:34:57 PM] Seraph Basarab: I guess I'm just not sure why you think Tribute's just going to be left alone and passed over by the opposition force fighting the cfc.
  163. [2/11/2016 12:36:12 PM] Da_Winci: Then so be it. Those that should know (inside and outside the cfc) already know the difference. The average line member in the cfc even knows. PL knows, you know, NC knows, Reddit knows...
  164. [2/11/2016 12:37:14 PM] Seraph Basarab: It's not about identity here. Basically if Co2 doesn't put the work in to drop the CFC, it's not going to have any share in the spoils.
  165. [2/11/2016 12:38:08 PM] Da_Winci: We have no wish for spoils. Being in the cfc learned me that if you want something you're on your own anyway
  166. [2/11/2016 12:39:07 PM] Seraph Basarab: Co2 is one of the first alliances on the chopping block for the invasion. It's literally me saying "hey wait up guys we might have an understanding going on here." They're telling me you're just basically stringing me along to fish for intel which would be fine it doesn't matter to me. But I'm trying to prove that you guys are serious here. I think the dread sale is a very fair deal, shows you're committed and is not only safe but profitable for you as well.
  167. [2/11/2016 12:39:55 PM] Seraph Basarab: So I'm not saying reset goons tonight. But I need to know if we at least have an agreement regarding the dreads.
  168. [2/11/2016 12:42:25 PM] Da_Winci: See, exactly my point. That is so typically the goon way of dealing with things. "We highly suggest you do this or...". Six months ago Sion hauled that same chopping block... "You choose now if you do what I say or be evicted". We as co2 told him that eviction was fine if he wanted to do so.
  169. [2/11/2016 12:43:47 PM] Seraph Basarab: I'm not sion. I'm not commanding you to do anything. I don't even have director roles in my own corp. I have zero hard power to push any buttons. Im just letting you know that unless Co2 actually helps out with this whole thing, Im not going to be able to convince manny and others not to burn down tribute. That's not my call, I'm not doing some god father threat here. That's just the reality of it.
  170. [2/11/2016 12:45:36 PM] Da_Winci: If that that actually turns out to happen guess what... the coalition will see their only powerhouse in flames... 3 guesses what their reaction will be
  171. [2/11/2016 12:46:30 PM] Seraph Basarab: Im not sure which coalition you mean or what you're referring to
  172. [2/11/2016 12:48:05 PM] Da_Winci: You're a goon. Or any alliance leader near Trib. You know that in terms of capability you only have co2 to count on. Co2 comes under heavy attack. Guess how the coalition will react
  173. [2/11/2016 12:48:25 PM] Seraph Basarab: Probably try to defend you of course.
  174. [2/11/2016 12:49:16 PM] Da_Winci: Now you're co2. You turn coat and help cfc biggest enemies. Guess how the coalition will react
  175. [2/11/2016 12:49:58 PM] Seraph Basarab: Well you're not the only alliance coming along.
  176. [2/11/2016 12:50:14 PM] Da_Winci: They will cry "content! Narrative!"  And no amount of dreads will stop them.
  177. [2/11/2016 12:50:38 PM] Da_Winci: And give me bastion and lawn and we have a different context.
  178. [2/11/2016 12:50:55 PM] Seraph Basarab: You yourself stated that the CFC could not evict Co2 out of Tribute. You say their coalition is going to die on its own sooner rather than later. Now they're strong, next their weak. Which is it.
  179. [2/11/2016 12:51:12 PM] Seraph Basarab: Well if you want bastion and lawn, that's on you to handle not me.
  180. [2/11/2016 12:51:53 PM] Seraph Basarab: CFC would be stupid to invade Tribute. PL, NCdot, OSS, OOS, TISHU, hell probably even TEST would come up just to shit on CFC and help you to spite them.
  181. [2/11/2016 12:52:57 PM] Da_Winci: They are weak because they mishandle their allies. They are weak because they ran out of reasons to log. No real enemy left. Give them an enemy in nullsec, next door even... even a weakened cfc will eat you for breakfast.
  182. [2/11/2016 12:53:47 PM] Da_Winci: And I know all would come to help. But hey, you just stated they also want to kill us right now.
  183. [2/11/2016 12:53:59 PM] Da_Winci: Same inconsistency
  184. [2/11/2016 12:54:23 PM] Seraph Basarab: They want to kill you now because you're in the CFC. Drop out and you'd be respected for it.
  185. [2/11/2016 12:54:31 PM] Seraph Basarab: Not the same inconsistency.
  186. [2/11/2016 12:54:59 PM] Seraph Basarab: But again even all this is down the road a bit. For now all I want to know is if SUAS will get his dreads or not.
  187. [2/11/2016 1:14:53 PM] Da_Winci: Let's discuss that on ts.
  188. [2/11/2016 1:15:48 PM] Seraph Basarab: I'm stuck at uni for the next 10+ hours.
  189. [2/11/2016 1:16:42 PM] Seraph Basarab: If we can hammer out specifics here that'd be easier. If not contact SUAS or if you prefer we can wait until tomorrow
  190. [2/11/2016 1:20:27 PM] Da_Winci: Tomorrow is fine for me. I'm not in a hurry. Fair warning, neither gigX or myself are very into the idea
  191. [2/12/2016 7:08:54 PM] Seraph Basarab: Are you around?
  192. [2/13/2016 5:17:29 AM] Da_Winci: i was but busy - now i'm around for real
  193. [2/13/2016 5:25:15 AM] Seraph Basarab: around now?
  194. [2/13/2016 5:26:41 AM] Da_Winci: yep, sick and tired but active
  195. [2/13/2016 5:26:55 AM] Seraph Basarab: alright give me a sec
  196. [2/13/2016 5:27:05 AM] Seraph Basarab: is it ok if i bring a director from tishu with me?
  197. [2/13/2016 5:27:06 AM] Seraph Basarab: your call
  198. [2/13/2016 5:27:33 AM] Da_Winci: sure, bring it on :)
  199. [2/13/2016 5:30:26 AM] Seraph Basarab: In as dusan
  200. [2/21/2016 8:52:33 AM] Seraph Basarab: What are you hearing on the coalition level on your end regarding phorde
  201. [2/21/2016 8:54:28 AM] Da_Winci: alot, but none of it of any consequence
  202. [2/21/2016 8:54:53 AM] Da_Winci: like ph is something we or the coalition need to worry about
  203. [2/21/2016 8:55:20 AM] Seraph Basarab: I mean SMA did lose over a quarter of their members in a few weeks
  204. [2/21/2016 8:55:54 AM] Da_Winci: well, we're not SMA - but i've seen the slope yes
  205. [2/21/2016 8:56:15 AM] Seraph Basarab: I know you arent sma
  206. [2/21/2016 8:56:22 AM] Da_Winci: and as you might have noticed, they all stay within the cfc
  207. [2/21/2016 8:56:40 AM] Seraph Basarab: Not all. some of them do
  208. [2/21/2016 8:56:49 AM] Da_Winci: so it's internal shifting mostly
  209. [2/21/2016 8:57:01 AM] Seraph Basarab: Which causes its own issues.
  210. [2/21/2016 8:57:43 AM] Da_Winci: again, not for us - we're not that affected by that. Never were and prolly won't be ever
  211. [2/21/2016 8:58:19 AM] Da_Winci: makes me happy we took the path we took from the start
  212. [2/21/2016 8:59:12 AM] Seraph Basarab: What path is that
  213. [2/21/2016 8:59:50 AM] Da_Winci: being the odd one out in the coalition doing our own thing
  214. [2/21/2016 9:00:10 AM] Da_Winci: or as CD puts it "having a strong own identity"
  215. [2/21/2016 9:01:03 AM] Da_Winci: by now nobody can deny we're not goons (or like any other alliance in the cfc)
  216. [2/21/2016 9:04:37 AM] Seraph Basarab: FCOn fleets have been getting destroyed by OSS/OOS so that's nice to see.
  217. [2/21/2016 9:05:28 AM] Da_Winci: as long as they'll fly those cerbs that is bound to happen
  218. [2/21/2016 9:14:12 AM] Seraph Basarab: What has mittens been saying to you
  219. [2/21/2016 9:15:13 AM] Da_Winci: not going there :)
  220. [2/21/2016 9:15:30 AM] Da_Winci: and like I already said, I very rarely talk to mittens
  221. [2/21/2016 9:15:41 AM] Seraph Basarab: ok
  222. [2/21/2016 9:17:11 AM] Da_Winci: but if you want the other side, we talked to nync, who seems to be not happy with the current situation
  223. [2/21/2016 9:17:26 AM] Seraph Basarab: What's he unhappy about
  224. [2/21/2016 9:17:42 AM] Da_Winci: winning space ship battles
  225. [2/21/2016 9:17:53 AM] Seraph Basarab: He's not happy about winning?
  226. [2/21/2016 9:17:59 AM] Da_Winci: indeed
  227. [2/21/2016 9:18:06 AM] Da_Winci: too easy for his liking
  228. [2/21/2016 9:18:30 AM] Seraph Basarab: Could try taking Branch/Tenal then
  229. [2/21/2016 9:20:19 AM] Da_Winci: i'm not his strategist - have my hands full with keeping our own alliance on track
  230. [2/21/2016 9:34:59 AM] Seraph Basarab: right
  231. [2/21/2016 9:51:37 AM] Da_Winci: Look if you want to have those details go talk to him. I kinda respect the no leaking policy for that kind of conversations. He's bored cause the fights are predictable... obviously.
  232. [2/21/2016 9:52:05 AM] Seraph Basarab: ? I didnt say anything.
  233. [2/21/2016 9:52:23 AM] Da_Winci: Just a feeling :)
  234. [2/21/2016 9:52:32 AM] Seraph Basarab: No man i got you
  235. [2/21/2016 10:02:25 AM] Seraph Basarab: We got the dread situation solved btw so that's pretty cool.
  236. [2/21/2016 10:06:33 AM] Da_Winci: You're well-connected. Had no doubts you would pull it of .)
  237. [2/25/2016 8:13:14 AM] Seraph Basarab: How do you think SMA would react if you offered their pvp members a home?
  238. [2/25/2016 8:52:46 AM] Da_Winci: We don't poach. So that's a purely hypothetical question. Not happy I'd assume
  239. [2/25/2016 8:55:39 AM] Seraph Basarab: I never believed in the concept of poaching. If people have better options elsewhere, nothing wrong with stating the obvious
  240. [2/25/2016 8:56:54 AM] Da_Winci: You asked how SMA would react if I offered. That requires me to do something I won't
  241. [2/25/2016 8:58:35 AM] Seraph Basarab: So i'm wondering what sort of things need to happen before you press the button. I'm just curious so I can perhaps help ensure those things happen and you are comfortable enough to do that.
  242. [2/25/2016 8:59:32 AM] Seraph Basarab: In short, what can I do for you
  243. [2/25/2016 9:03:41 AM] Da_Winci: Please do stop referring to a magic button. A process doesn't have a button.
  244. [2/25/2016 9:04:34 AM] Seraph Basarab: It's a figure of speech. What sort of things would help the 'process' along then?
  245. [2/25/2016 9:13:46 AM] Da_Winci: We've already discussed that. Will never put that on paper ofc.
  246. [2/25/2016 10:14:51 AM] Seraph Basarab: Ok but I kind of need something to work with when I go talk to people. Like I'm not sure what I can do here.
  247. [2/25/2016 10:15:02 AM] Seraph Basarab: I mean you saw horde move up
  248. [2/25/2016 10:15:07 AM] Seraph Basarab: NCdot's moved up as well
  249. [2/25/2016 10:15:18 AM] Seraph Basarab: we can imagine PL will be more active
  250. [2/25/2016 10:15:22 AM] Seraph Basarab: ffs Vince logged on so...
  251. [3/1/2016 7:13:57 AM] Seraph Basarab: How are things with snuff
  252. [3/1/2016 12:44:06 PM] Da_Winci: They blueball most of the time. (S)nuff said :)
  253. [3/1/2016 12:45:54 PM] Seraph Basarab: What would you think about getting a NAP agreement like you have with OSS/OOS and they can focus on Bastion instead?
  254. [3/1/2016 12:45:59 PM] Seraph Basarab: You stay out of the way, let things develop
  255. [3/1/2016 12:54:35 PM] Da_Winci: You keep forgetting that we would help bastion and lawn. I told you that on several occasions. I consider them friends of co2
  256. [3/1/2016 12:55:35 PM] Seraph Basarab: No I'm not forgetting that at all. However we did state that anything that shows Bastion and Lawn that you are their protector rather than GSF is a step forward.
  257. [3/1/2016 12:55:45 PM] Seraph Basarab: But that's fine, just asking.
  258. [3/1/2016 2:26:17 PM] Da_Winci: exactly - CO2 will not work against BASTION or LAWN in any way. Nobody gains anything with attacking them - or us for that matter. That should be clear to all involved by now. I've been saying that for over a year
  259. [3/1/2016 2:27:58 PM] Seraph Basarab: I think Bastion and LAWN is going to get really hard soon. No one's presented any reason not to for the entities involved.
  260. [3/1/2016 2:30:09 PM] Da_Winci: the entities involved have their own agenda - which doesnt always correspond with any broader perspective.  And I don't have any direct lines of communications with PL and/or NC. .. well NC. yes, I could poke Travis, but he's not the one calling the shots
  261. [3/1/2016 2:31:16 PM] Seraph Basarab: It's kind of a catch 22 and I sympathize with you. You can't pull the trigger until certain things happen and the other parties won't take you into consideration as a friendly entity until you pull the trigger.
  262. [3/1/2016 2:31:36 PM] Seraph Basarab: It would help of course if I knew what sort of things need to play out first for you guys to feel comfortable enough to make your move.
  263. [3/1/2016 2:37:37 PM] Da_Winci: it is a catch 22 but a comfortable one for us - Alliance vs alliance there aren't many entities that could take on CO2.  It's not my problem that said alliances think they could gain anything by hitting LAWN and BASTION.  For us it's more or less meh - we can defend ourselves, most others cant
  264. [3/1/2016 2:39:09 PM] Da_Winci: and if 'you guys' don't see that/realize that hitting the wrong targets will have an adverse effect - again meh, we will still be standing in Tribute. And Tribute is - for all concerned - a key region
  265. [3/1/2016 2:40:32 PM] Seraph Basarab: Well you won't help, but you think you and your close friends should not be attacked. And those entities still make up large parts of coalition fleets. What can I do with that?
  266. [3/1/2016 2:42:24 PM] Da_Winci: there simply is no reason to 'help' - just keep talking to the right people (not SMA like you're doing) and things will move along nicely. I'm just pointing out that hitting the wrong targets won't get 'you' anywhere.
  267. [3/1/2016 2:42:45 PM] Seraph Basarab: Well the only entity you'd like us to hit is TNT.
  268. [3/1/2016 2:43:03 PM] Seraph Basarab: I mean Co2 could roll TNT in a week maybe 2 tops
  269. [3/1/2016 2:43:51 PM] Da_Winci: and invite Goons to UMI-KK ? That would be not be a good way
  270. [3/1/2016 2:44:53 PM] Seraph Basarab: So you don't think Co2 can hold Tribute from Goons? And Bastion and LAWN would not support you over them?
  271. [3/1/2016 2:45:11 PM] Da_Winci: as it stands now? No
  272. [3/1/2016 2:45:18 PM] Da_Winci: on both accounts
  273. [3/1/2016 2:45:26 PM] Seraph Basarab: Alright well again what would you like us to do to help you.
  274. [3/1/2016 2:45:52 PM] Seraph Basarab: I'm just wondering what you're waiting for specifically.
  275. [3/1/2016 2:45:58 PM] Seraph Basarab: And I want to help those things happen sooner rather than later.
  276. [3/1/2016 2:46:31 PM] Da_Winci: once again - get Bastion and Lawn on CO2 side and things are sorted
  277. [3/1/2016 2:46:43 PM] Seraph Basarab: I'm suppose to do that? Not you?
  278. [3/1/2016 2:46:52 PM] Seraph Basarab: I think you're much more capable than me at that
  279. [3/1/2016 2:47:15 PM] Da_Winci: i've been working on that for the better part of 2 years - there, my contribution
  280. [3/1/2016 2:47:33 PM] Seraph Basarab: And what do you want me to do in order to make sure your allies stay with you?
  281. [3/1/2016 2:48:52 PM] Da_Winci: goons moving to UMI means they wont
  282. [3/1/2016 2:49:01 PM] Da_Winci: because they're scared shitless
  283. [3/1/2016 2:49:40 PM] Da_Winci: one day Goons will make a final (diplomatic prolly) mistake and things will fall into place
  284. [3/1/2016 2:49:52 PM] Da_Winci: brb - rl for a few
  285. [3/1/2016 2:50:05 PM] Seraph Basarab: Ok well what part of that can I help with
  286. [3/3/2016 2:24:19 PM] Da_Winci: You organized the upvoting of the co2 thread on Reddit?
  287. [3/4/2016 5:06:57 AM] Seraph Basarab: No?
  288. [3/4/2016 5:07:00 AM] Seraph Basarab: Who said that
  289. [3/4/2016 5:29:13 AM] Da_Winci: Just a thought. Because stuff like that annoyed the shit out of goons, shows other alliances there is an alternative and generally helps your plans more than reffing towers and camping
  290. [3/4/2016 5:21:56 PM] Seraph Basarab: Nah I don't bother with that. Goons are just legitimately unpopular on reddit for being shitlers.
  291. [3/4/2016 5:23:34 PM] Da_Winci: Well, I've been called a shitler several times on Reddit already... So yeah, not that hard to get that title
  292. [3/4/2016 5:23:52 PM] Seraph Basarab: No it's a pretty low bar for reddit.
  293. [3/5/2016 5:43:42 AM] Seraph Basarab: Have you heard the rumor that Init is looking to leave the CFC?
  294. [3/5/2016 6:13:30 AM] Da_Winci: rumors galore - that one included. But have no confirmation or credible indications that is true
  295. [3/5/2016 10:05:26 AM] Seraph Basarab: Well if it were true a double defection would be extremely problematic for the goons.
  296. [3/5/2016 10:11:43 AM] Da_Winci: I object to the if and defection words there
  297. [3/5/2016 10:12:51 AM] Seraph Basarab: Then we could say "when there WILL be a RESHUFFLING of the north it will be problematic for the goons"
  298. [3/5/2016 10:13:15 AM] Da_Winci: that would sound way better and closer to the truth
  299. [3/5/2016 10:13:46 AM] Da_Winci: because leaving the CFC is one thing - joining 'the other side' is acompletely different story
  300. [3/5/2016 10:14:31 AM] Seraph Basarab: Well there is no "other side" in terms of a coalition. It's just Hun tribes banding together to take down the big empire. Afterward (as far as TISHU anyway) we'd just go back to fighting each other.
  301. [3/5/2016 10:15:57 AM] Da_Winci: I doubt that will be the case - banding together is a natural thing to happen
  302. [3/5/2016 10:17:56 AM] Seraph Basarab: I think there is a distinction in culture that must be made. Most of the cfc is made up of people who have no capability to survive in 0.0 or lowsec by themselves. They're highseccers and the cfc provides a platform for them to rat because there is security in numbers.
  303.  
  304. It's a bit like comparing the sedentary civilizations of China with the warlike nomadic barbarians.
  305. [3/5/2016 10:18:50 AM] Seraph Basarab: Aside from co2 and Init none of the non-goon alliances would stand a chance.
  306. [3/5/2016 10:19:08 AM] Da_Winci: the combo LAWN/Bastion would
  307. [3/5/2016 10:19:19 AM] Da_Winci: barely, but they would
  308. [3/5/2016 10:19:33 AM] Seraph Basarab: It's possible
  309. [3/6/2016 9:06:05 AM] Seraph Basarab: 3 guesses on where test will land
  310. [3/6/2016 9:06:43 AM] Da_Winci: seen the activity around us - Lonetrek or Venal
  311. [3/6/2016 9:30:00 AM] Seraph Basarab: Any idea what high command in the cfc's reaction is?
  312. [3/6/2016 9:39:42 AM] Da_Winci: like I said already several times - I don't know what high command in Goons think - we have a seperate command structure for CO2 and for Trib-Vale coop
  313. [3/6/2016 9:41:44 AM] Da_Winci: I neither care or am really aware of their opinion - not completely true ofc, but I dont care at all, like totally no connection between what CO2 does and CFC wants
  314. [3/6/2016 10:09:27 AM] Seraph Basarab: Would you be able to find out if you were so inclined?
  315. [3/6/2016 10:10:01 AM] Da_Winci: sure, share it? no
  316. [3/6/2016 10:13:16 AM] Da_Winci: of course I know what 'high command' thinks. Like I know who is not happy with what and why. That's my job in CO2, knowing things.  But I dont feel it to be to my benefit to share such information. Specially not in writing
  317. [3/6/2016 10:16:00 AM] Seraph Basarab: We can talk on comms if you prefer in a bit. But just to be clear I always seek to be an honest broker with people and keep their secrets. I would be at a net loss to sell you out. And quite frankly anything I could show in text could easily be denied as fake anyway. But I respect your wishes.
  318. [3/6/2016 1:41:29 PM] Seraph Basarab: My concern right now is that if TEST or someone else makes a distinct push on Tribute you will not be able to shift away from the CFC at all. You'd lose your alliance or sustain a mass departure.
  319. [3/6/2016 2:21:38 PM] Da_Winci: So you're saying that if test (or even a combo of alliances) would push on trib we'd lose our alliance?
  320. [3/6/2016 2:22:40 PM] Seraph Basarab: I said you wouldn't be able to depart from the CFC.
  321. [3/6/2016 2:23:18 PM] Da_Winci: The second part of your statement..
  322. [3/6/2016 2:25:33 PM] Seraph Basarab: Yes. If you were to be in direct conflict you wouldn't be able to tell your guys "ok we're leaving the CFC guys."
  323. [3/6/2016 2:29:04 PM] Da_Winci: Welcome to the Beauty of our position. At the same time politically, geographically and militarily. Just take the current situation and tell me what would happen if co2 came under existential threat...
  324. [3/6/2016 2:29:28 PM] Da_Winci: From any side...
  325. [3/6/2016 2:30:01 PM] Seraph Basarab: Well whatever side they are on will prop them up
  326. [3/6/2016 2:30:59 PM] Da_Winci: Fountain and FA well yeah, throw them under the bus.
  327. [3/6/2016 2:31:16 PM] Da_Winci: Tenal and rzr, same
  328. [3/6/2016 2:32:00 PM] Da_Winci: But trib? The only real powerhouse left (bar goons by numbers)...
  329. [3/6/2016 2:36:04 PM] Da_Winci: I agree that this scenario is coming to some kind of conclusion soonish. But you'll have to agree also that I don't need to do much here.
  330. [3/6/2016 2:36:31 PM] Seraph Basarab: If TEST and PL focus on you, and the CFC starts losing what do you do?
  331. [3/6/2016 2:37:12 PM] Da_Winci: To focus effectively they'll need capital support...
  332. [3/6/2016 2:37:50 PM] Da_Winci: Because this fighting in lowsec has no strategic value whatsoever.
  333. [3/6/2016 2:38:11 PM] Da_Winci: Let's see them bring that into nullsec first.
  334. [3/6/2016 2:38:58 PM] Da_Winci: Until then I've yet to see any real focus
  335. [3/6/2016 2:39:32 PM] Seraph Basarab: That's the point. A focus would give the CFC the kind of fight it wins at...where they can just drop blobs of numbers. But the CFC, save for 1 or 2 alliances, is incapable at smaller scale fighting.
  336. [3/6/2016 2:39:54 PM] Seraph Basarab: 80 percent of the north (being generous here) are glorified ratters that can fill fleets up and press F1
  337. [3/6/2016 2:40:10 PM] Da_Winci: We are so meh.
  338. [3/6/2016 2:40:46 PM] Da_Winci: We aren't so meh (on the second)
  339. [3/6/2016 2:41:11 PM] Seraph Basarab: co2's like the only good alliance
  340. [3/6/2016 2:41:27 PM] Da_Winci: Thanks for noticing :)
  341. [3/6/2016 2:42:09 PM] Da_Winci: And it would be stupid to push there right? Military adagio has it you focus on the weakest link.
  342. [3/6/2016 2:46:19 PM] Seraph Basarab: Or it could be smart. If Co2 crumbled, who would stand up?
  343. [3/6/2016 2:48:16 PM] Da_Winci: Well I'm willing to take my chances on that. It's in cfc interest to keep us alive.
  344. [3/6/2016 2:49:27 PM] Da_Winci: And maybe goons would be willing (and some are) to throw us under the bus. But both bastion and lawn wouldn't stand for a month if we falter.
  345. [3/6/2016 2:49:59 PM] Da_Winci: So it's in their own interest we hold trib
  346. [3/6/2016 2:50:30 PM] Da_Winci: How you want to look at it... same conclusion.
  347. [3/6/2016 2:51:21 PM] Da_Winci: You underestimate the subtle balances at play.
  348. [3/6/2016 2:51:55 PM] Seraph Basarab: Maybe they realize they wont be able to hold much beyond Dek and fade. COuld do them well to absorb the other corps into GSF proper and ensure their region is safe too.
  349. [3/6/2016 2:54:29 PM] Da_Winci: which corps?
  350. [3/6/2016 2:55:11 PM] Seraph Basarab: bastion, lawn and co2 ones. I mean I'd prepare for that myself
  351. [3/6/2016 2:56:14 PM] Da_Winci: again you underestimate the difference in culture here. Sure we'd lose people to goons, but not that many as you assume
  352. [3/6/2016 2:56:52 PM] Da_Winci: we already have a huge difference in culture. Corps recruited know we're not (like) goons
  353. [3/6/2016 2:57:14 PM] Da_Winci: hell, some even fought goons most of their eve life
  354. [3/6/2016 2:57:19 PM] Seraph Basarab: I meant more for bastion and lawn. If those alliances died theyd go to goons.
  355. [3/6/2016 2:58:11 PM] Da_Winci: most yes, the more independent thinking ones come to CO2
  356. [3/6/2016 2:59:13 PM] Da_Winci: that is what? Like 700 pilots? Means that we could fleet 500
  357. [3/6/2016 2:59:58 PM] Seraph Basarab: You're much more optimistic than I tend to be.
  358. [3/6/2016 3:00:33 PM] Da_Winci: maybe, I've been recruiting for 3+ years - I know what we have in alliance
  359. [3/6/2016 3:00:49 PM] Da_Winci: and I know what corps would join CO2 in such a scenario
  360. [3/6/2016 3:00:55 PM] Seraph Basarab: I'm not saying you're wrong. I just tend to look at more negative things.
  361. [3/6/2016 3:01:01 PM] Da_Winci: so do I
  362. [3/6/2016 3:01:11 PM] Da_Winci: so lets say 500 then
  363. [3/6/2016 3:01:25 PM] Da_Winci: we can field full fleets now already
  364. [3/6/2016 3:02:46 PM] Seraph Basarab: But if TEST's numbers with PL's supers show up.
  365. [3/6/2016 3:02:55 PM] Seraph Basarab: Do you think you'd win?
  366. [3/6/2016 3:04:16 PM] Da_Winci: if they'd show up in M-O - oh boy, what a nice fight that would be. Alone would be doubtful. Throw in BSTN and LAWN yes
  367. [3/6/2016 3:04:33 PM] Da_Winci: and PL supers in CFC space, what you think would happen?
  368. [3/6/2016 3:05:02 PM] Seraph Basarab: They'd either be in Tribute and maybe win...but they wouldn't be elsewhere
  369. [3/6/2016 3:05:08 PM] Seraph Basarab: I'm fine with all the above
  370. [3/6/2016 3:07:36 PM] Da_Winci: PL supers are nowhere near Trib atm - so we'll see
  371. [3/6/2016 3:08:58 PM] Seraph Basarab: What key factors do you think would make an alliance depart from the cfc?
  372. [3/6/2016 3:09:33 PM] Da_Winci: the inability of goons to protect them combined with outside pressure on said alliance
  373. [3/6/2016 3:10:04 PM] Seraph Basarab: What specifically would underline the goon's inability to protect their allies?
  374. [3/6/2016 3:10:57 PM] Da_Winci: mind you - most corps would just switch to whichever alliance is not under threat or shows to capabilty to provide protection
  375. [3/6/2016 3:11:33 PM] Da_Winci: losing sov and stations would underline that
  376. [3/6/2016 3:14:26 PM] Seraph Basarab: Do you think Co2 leaving the cfc would make them more or less capable of protecting their allies?
  377. [3/6/2016 3:15:07 PM] Da_Winci: less I think
  378. [3/6/2016 3:15:16 PM] Seraph Basarab: Very much so
  379. [3/8/2016 4:21:23 PM] Seraph Basarab: Have you ever spoken with lenny?
  380. [3/8/2016 4:22:57 PM] Da_Winci: lenny being?
  381. [3/8/2016 4:24:22 PM] Seraph Basarab: Ah i guess not. He's one of the trillionaire barons funding the merc contracts.
  382. [3/8/2016 4:24:51 PM] Seraph Basarab: I mentioned to him "someone" in the cfc high up might be interested in changing alignments.
  383. [3/8/2016 4:25:05 PM] Seraph Basarab: And he said that if they wanted to talk to him perhaps he could help out
  384. [3/8/2016 4:26:34 PM] Da_Winci: ingame name?
  385. [3/8/2016 4:47:16 PM] Seraph Basarab: No I didn't use any in game names.
  386. [3/8/2016 6:10:01 PM] Seraph Basarab: So here's an idea. We'll have people focus on TNT if you keep Co2 out of coalition/goon fleets.
  387. [3/9/2016 10:03:10 AM] Seraph Basarab: Fair deal?
  388. [3/9/2016 10:06:42 AM] Da_Winci: it just keeps amazing me how wrong your assumptions are - take some time to study the BR's for at least the past year.  CO2 has since always had the culture of not being in Goon fleets. Bar the lonely guy that ends up in a fleet ... we have always pushed our people to be in our fleets. So what you offer is something we already been doing for like forever
  389. [3/9/2016 10:07:26 AM] Seraph Basarab: In Hakoken how many Co2 were in fleet?
  390. [3/9/2016 10:08:57 AM] Da_Winci: what hakonen fleet?
  391. we never have had 1 single guy in a goon fleet in hakonen
  392. but why do I even have to explain myself there? We fly our fleets. Period
  393. [3/9/2016 10:10:11 AM] Seraph Basarab: http://evf-eve.com/services/brcat/?s=1448&b=6926220&e=179&t=qubveuvfaaaaeaaaaaaaq&r=1
  394. [3/9/2016 10:12:14 AM] Da_Winci: ow wait... you mean fight the same people... so what you propose is an effective withdrawal from the CFC in return for you doing what you would/should/could do anyway
  395. [3/9/2016 10:12:22 AM] Da_Winci: that is just lolz
  396. [3/9/2016 10:13:37 AM] Seraph Basarab: I'm simply saying don't join up with any fleets unless Tribute sov/towers are being hit. Go have a JC deployment in Curse or Catch or Wildlands for all I care. You don't "withdraw from the cfc" you just do your own alliance things. On my end I'll make sure the people fighting in tribute focus on tnt and leave your stuff alone.
  397. [3/9/2016 10:15:34 AM] Da_Winci: this is getting ridiculous.. we have been doing exactly that for ages and you cannot deliver on your end what I cannot negotiate myself (or we could handle if you dish it out)
  398. [3/9/2016 10:18:39 AM] Da_Winci: Might I remind you that every scenario you pictured since we started talking (CO2 being smashed somehow) has not become reality. Why? Because either you cannot pull enough strings or the scenario's you present are too far fetched.
  399. I am in no hurry whatsoever.  This will go as it goes. Slowly but surely.  And I am perfectly okay with that
  400. [3/9/2016 10:19:03 AM] Seraph Basarab: What scenarios did I picture of Co2 being smashed? What are you talking about?
  401. [3/9/2016 10:19:19 AM] Da_Winci: goons will invade/kick us
  402. [3/9/2016 10:19:34 AM] Da_Winci: NC will use Vale as base to invade Trib
  403. [3/9/2016 10:19:51 AM] Da_Winci: PL is deploying and will focus on Trib
  404. [3/9/2016 10:20:09 AM] Da_Winci: OSS and OOS will focus on our sov
  405. [3/9/2016 10:22:10 AM] Seraph Basarab: I explained this to you once before. I said that I had heard some people within GSF say that they would like to do harm to you. You even agreed to it. And that was that.
  406.  
  407. I stated that PL/NC would focus on Vale...which so far they have. The ultimate goal isn't necessarily to "invade Tribute." But of course that's on the way when marching west. PL just got to Vale so things are developing obviously.
  408.  
  409. OSS/OOS isn't focusing on your sov because as you may have known at one point, I spoke with both SUAS and Moxich and brought them the idea of having a NAP with you so they can focus on the far north.
  410.  
  411. None of that was talking about "Co2" getting smashed.
  412. [3/9/2016 10:22:50 AM] Seraph Basarab: You're imagining threats where there were none.
  413. [3/9/2016 10:23:18 AM] Da_Winci: the subtext was and still is
  414. [3/9/2016 10:24:02 AM] Seraph Basarab: Listen please I'm not mittens here. I don't make little pissy threats with hidden meanings. If I want to do you harm I wouldn't even tell you. I'd just do it.
  415. [3/9/2016 10:25:02 AM] Seraph Basarab: So whatever paranoia infused context you are used to when speaking with goons needs to stop right here for us to have a meaningful discussion. I'm not twisting arms here. I'm offering opportunities. Not every suggestion that you keep into mind certain possibilities is some scheming threat.
  416. [3/9/2016 10:27:13 AM] Seraph Basarab: If you don't think I have common interests in mind I can't help you.
  417. [3/9/2016 10:30:41 AM] Da_Winci: I wasnt even on the threat-train .. just stating again and again that I do not need to be in a hurry. I do not need to make deals at this point in time.
  418. Goons overall don't like us. I'm fine with that
  419. Goons overall need us. I'm ofc fine with that also
  420. Your side overall doesnt like us. I'm fine with that
  421. Your side overall needs us. I'm fine with that also ofc
  422.  
  423. Seen this situation I'm 'confronted' with the luxury of not having to do anything.  And that suits me fine.
  424. In that respect you actually did make a subtle threat along the lines of 'if you don't give me anything I cannot protect you'. Not that it matters, but there actually is that subtext in much of what you say.
  425. [3/9/2016 10:31:14 AM] Da_Winci: that said, i'm always open for suggestions and conversation. Just keep in mind I don't need to do anything at all
  426. [3/9/2016 10:36:13 AM] Seraph Basarab: But that's not a threat. That's simply stating that if nothing at all is done I have no reason to even assume you aren't just stringing me along for intel. I don't control everything. I have my hand more firmly on some things and on other things I only have glimpses, if that. So if say TEST deployed to Taisy and set their mind on making Tribute their new home, would I be able to say "hold on guys, these guys are really with us." No. I'd get laughed at. Likewise if there is a harsh war in Tribute and eventually you decide that the Goons aren't helpful to your interests, what are you going to be able to do? Tell your guys that you'll bend the knee to TEST? That's what a flip will look like mid war no matter what you say.
  427. [3/9/2016 10:43:32 AM] Da_Winci: I see what you mean.  We already told goons (Sion) that we would choose to be kicked rather than sucking his dick. I from my side - our side - know where we stand. And if TEST has plans to invade us, meh, bring it on I'd say.  You don't need to tell them anything then. Nor do I drag you along for intel - best case what I get from you is to confirm or deny intel that I get elsewhere. Not a source as such
  428. [3/9/2016 10:46:13 AM] Seraph Basarab: I was just looking a Tribute by the way. TNT has more systems than even you in Tribute. They have the safe "ratting bottleneck clusters." They bring 50 in fleet at most while you guys do around 200 if not more.
  429. [3/9/2016 10:46:32 AM] Seraph Basarab: I mean you know these things.
  430. [3/9/2016 10:46:38 AM] Da_Winci: we feel played there yes
  431. [3/9/2016 10:47:31 AM] Da_Winci: as we feel cheated on tons of issues
  432. [3/9/2016 10:49:27 AM] Seraph Basarab: I would feel such a satisfaction for you to watch CO2 just take the rest of tribute
  433. [3/9/2016 10:49:55 AM] Da_Winci: so would we. We dont even make a big secret out of it
  434. [3/9/2016 10:50:36 AM] Da_Winci: it's a common topic in alliance
  435. [3/9/2016 10:51:18 AM] Seraph Basarab: Here's my worry with waiting too long however. If there isn't some defining spark of some sort to really turn people on, I worry PL will be fickle and just piss off to Amamake in a few weeks. I don't talk directly with PL and the ISK Barons funding this assure me that PL is all the way in, but I'm skeptical.
  436. [3/9/2016 10:51:44 AM] Seraph Basarab: So i'm trying to figure out some sort of action that can be taken to make you guys feel safe enough to kill TNT.
  437. [3/9/2016 10:52:27 AM] Da_Winci: TNT are killing themselves - even without you or me putting pressure
  438. [3/9/2016 10:52:35 AM] Da_Winci: Wibla is burnt out
  439. [3/9/2016 10:54:06 AM] Da_Winci: I just recruited a corp that was kicked by TNT because they pissed of Wibla. My 2 cents
  440. [3/9/2016 10:54:29 AM] Seraph Basarab: Can CFC alliances have their own blues outside of the coalition?
  441. [3/9/2016 10:57:07 AM] Da_Winci: we have a group keeping up our indexes in a constellation. Much against what Goons want. So we have our own blue list ofc
  442. [3/9/2016 10:57:26 AM] Da_Winci: I don't care about what goons want us to do
  443. [3/9/2016 10:57:57 AM] Seraph Basarab: So what if you blued up an entity that will be hostile with TNT and they used your space to stage out of?
  444. [3/9/2016 10:58:21 AM] Seraph Basarab: Not super heavy. Just a smaller group, enough to drive wibla mad and over react
  445. [3/9/2016 10:58:24 AM] Da_Winci: could do that, but would not do that
  446. [3/9/2016 10:58:57 AM] Da_Winci: that is harboring the enemy - not going there
  447. [3/9/2016 10:59:24 AM] Da_Winci: TNT kills itself even before the CFC fails
  448. [3/9/2016 12:01:12 PM] Seraph Basarab: Do you believe GSF has a hidden amount of people that will resub if war starts getting hotter?
  449. [3/9/2016 12:13:08 PM] Da_Winci: that, ofc, I cannot know. Possibly yes. But seen the amount of good people that left, doubt it
  450. [3/9/2016 12:24:04 PM] Seraph Basarab: And the cfc usually only has victories, pyrrhic ones at that, only when they outnumber their enemy
  451. [3/9/2016 12:28:55 PM] Da_Winci: That is how you chose to look at it i guess. It's allowed to win like that :)
  452. [3/9/2016 12:29:23 PM] Seraph Basarab: Of course it is. Don't get me wrong, I've always been a firm believer that Eve isn't about fair fights. It's about deception.
  453. [3/9/2016 12:29:47 PM] Seraph Basarab: However you must feel somewhat proud knowing that CO2 is perhaps the defining reason CFC fleets have success.
  454. [3/9/2016 12:32:49 PM] Da_Winci: I know we-I worked very hard for that. So yes, I'm proud of that. No reservations.
  455. [3/9/2016 7:45:21 PM] Seraph Basarab: How'd that Rag get caught?
  456. [3/10/2016 3:55:27 PM] Seraph Basarab: So big fight yesterday or something
  457. [3/10/2016 4:00:46 PM] Da_Winci: Titan welp you mean?
  458. [3/10/2016 4:00:56 PM] Da_Winci: Not happy about that
  459. [3/10/2016 4:01:19 PM] Seraph Basarab: It wasn't the best thing to happen.
  460. [3/10/2016 4:01:35 PM] Seraph Basarab: And unnecessary
  461. [3/10/2016 4:01:46 PM] Da_Winci: Agreed
  462. [3/10/2016 4:02:20 PM] Seraph Basarab: I was talking to some goons about it, general banter and they were looking down their nose "oh lol co2 is dumb" etc
  463. [3/10/2016 4:02:44 PM] Seraph Basarab: I mean it's the usual excuses. "Not our alliance, lol didn't want those anyways, RMT coalition sux!"
  464. [3/10/2016 4:03:46 PM] Da_Winci: Thats something I actually don't give a fuck about. Like really not a single flying fuck
  465. [3/10/2016 4:04:09 PM] Seraph Basarab: Neither should you. They're just spinning to protect themselves.
  466. [3/10/2016 4:04:39 PM] Da_Winci: As would I. Be it that I have ample reason to be smug. They have none.
  467. [3/10/2016 4:06:18 PM] Seraph Basarab: I was surprised that the lowsec group was able to pull it off. I would have thought GSF would have dropped their supers big time.
  468. [3/10/2016 4:06:50 PM] Seraph Basarab: Did they just poorly plan by placing their supers too far away or they didn't consider protecting your titans a priority?
  469. [3/10/2016 4:20:21 PM] Da_Winci: I wasn't awake when it happened. I didn't even bother to check. I woke up to those dead Titans... nuff said
  470. [3/10/2016 4:27:19 PM] Seraph Basarab: I remember when Razor had a similar mishap and they were ridiculed for it on TMC. I can't imagine a much more independent alliance's line members stand for that sort of unclassyness.
  471. [3/10/2016 5:45:09 PM] Seraph Basarab: I think the events of last night have really accelerated the pace at which some other things will happen.
  472. [3/10/2016 6:36:57 PM] Seraph Basarab: Do you know what system TEST is moving to?
  473. [3/18/2016 4:34:16 PM] Seraph Basarab: I was thinking about TEST and GSF's campaign to take Delve, Querious and Period Basis. Are you familiar with that campaign?
  474. [3/18/2016 4:34:42 PM] Da_Winci: more or less yeah
  475. [3/18/2016 4:35:11 PM] Seraph Basarab: They had a fairly similar culture and they didn't hate each other. Yet fighting alongside in a prolonged conflict caused issues. Familiarity breeds contempt, if you know the saying.
  476. [3/18/2016 4:35:41 PM] Seraph Basarab: I think that issue was caused because despite liking or not liking each other when one power rivals the other, there will always be tensions.
  477. [3/18/2016 4:37:23 PM] Da_Winci: i'm familiar with that concept. That's why we keep more or less to ourselves. But I see that's difficult to 'feel' from the outside
  478. [3/18/2016 4:38:44 PM] Seraph Basarab: Certainly only you can feel your own skin but I do believe you when you say that. However I was thinking of the pressure was focused almost solely on Co2, that would force GSF to be around you more and more and those tensions would arise I feel.
  479. [3/18/2016 5:09:14 PM] Da_Winci: exactly. And I'm fine with that. Like I said from the very beginning - they will come to our aid. Not out of love, but because it's in their own interest. Tribute has historically been the battleground of many pivotal conflicts. This time will be no different.
  480. And kinda ironic that seen the amount of alliances coming up North.. you're creating another monster coalition
  481. [3/18/2016 5:22:49 PM] Seraph Basarab: Why is it ironic?
  482. [3/18/2016 5:26:57 PM] Da_Winci: because you cry havoc every time someone mentions the CFc
  483. [3/18/2016 5:27:28 PM] Seraph Basarab: I do?
  484. [3/18/2016 5:27:41 PM] Da_Winci: speaking in general
  485. [3/18/2016 5:27:49 PM] Da_Winci: as in 'the other side'
  486. [3/18/2016 5:28:01 PM] Seraph Basarab: Well of course they'd need to form a coalition to match the cfc.
  487. [3/18/2016 5:28:19 PM] Seraph Basarab: When the cfc can put 800-1000 guys in fleet with some of their pings what other option is there
  488. [3/18/2016 5:29:21 PM] Da_Winci: so I feel it's correct to call that ironic.  needing a coalition with alliances that basically hate each other to kill  another similar coalition
  489. [3/18/2016 5:29:33 PM] Da_Winci: I indeed find that rather ironic
  490. [3/18/2016 5:30:34 PM] Da_Winci: I'm sure at the end of this (regardless of the outcome) a lot of people will realize they totally misjudged several alliance in the CFC
  491. [3/18/2016 5:32:30 PM] Seraph Basarab: Key difference I think is that the opposition will not remain as a coalition after the war ends, regardless of the outcome
  492. [3/18/2016 5:34:14 PM] Da_Winci: very true
  493. [3/18/2016 5:35:20 PM] Da_Winci: 1 small thing there - what will consist a positive outcome? Up till now it looks like getting the people together in itself is the goal
  494. [3/18/2016 5:36:21 PM] Seraph Basarab: Victory terms depends on who you ask. For me it would be a break up of the CFC. If goons perished as a result great. If not, that's fine too.
  495. [3/18/2016 5:36:27 PM] Da_Winci: because short of killing goons themselves - the CFC will just keep running
  496. [3/18/2016 5:37:22 PM] Seraph Basarab: "I don't want to kill you. I just want to hurt you really really bad."
  497. [3/18/2016 5:38:26 PM] Da_Winci: said the Germanic commander of the Guards just before he killed the last Roman emperor
  498. [3/18/2016 5:42:44 PM] Seraph Basarab: For a time when we killed mad emperors
  499. [3/20/2016 5:11:52 PM] Seraph Basarab: So TEST is in Obe....TISHU just moved to Akora
  500. [3/20/2016 5:12:11 PM] Seraph Basarab: Did you hear about Bovril?
  501. [3/20/2016 8:13:05 PM] Seraph Basarab: joining bastion by the looks of it
  502. [3/20/2016 8:21:24 PM] Da_Winci: Was made aware of that last night yes
  503. [3/20/2016 8:31:50 PM] Seraph Basarab: I saw the NAP with OSS/OOS hasn't held up too
  504. [3/21/2016 2:47:04 AM] Da_Winci: That wasnt a NAP.  And that happens when people take their wishes for reality.
  505. [3/21/2016 5:13:40 AM] Seraph Basarab: I don't think they had a problem with it not holding up whatever the name was.
  506. [3/21/2016 5:21:26 AM] Da_Winci: Suas assumed other things. Or Lenny had other plans. I didn't make any drama. It's cool for them to get on our Titans but boohoo for a handful of dreads. Right...
  507. [3/21/2016 5:23:04 AM] Seraph Basarab: Nobody had any issues with the dreads.
  508. [3/21/2016 5:23:53 AM] Seraph Basarab: I have to say that I feel like our window of opportunity is closing very quickly.
  509. [3/21/2016 5:35:15 AM] Da_Winci: According to who's timeline? And even if, so be it.
  510. [3/21/2016 5:35:52 AM] Da_Winci: And suas actually had issues with the dreads. Tower died
  511. [3/21/2016 5:36:09 AM] Seraph Basarab: If he said something to you I don't know anything about it.
  512. [3/21/2016 5:36:52 AM] Seraph Basarab: Just making an educated estimation regarding the timeline. Everything's coming along very tightly around the area.
  513. [3/21/2016 5:37:47 AM] Seraph Basarab: You know what Lex told me 5 months ago about all this? He didn't believe me. "None of the people you name would ever commit or move to the north to do any of this."
  514. [3/21/2016 5:45:21 AM] Seraph Basarab: My point is I'm have a pretty good eye for estimating how things develop, even when people on my own side disagree.
  515. [3/21/2016 5:49:33 AM] Seraph Basarab: Even you doubted me in things such as PL getting involved. You have OSS/OOS to your north...TEST, Snuff, MerCo and Mayhem to your south, TISHU, PL, NCdot and shadow cartel to your east....and TNT to your west. Once the conflict really escalates it'll be extremely difficult for you to switch sides. Now while you have something to negotiate you'll have much more leverage.
  516. [3/21/2016 5:51:07 AM] Seraph Basarab: At the absolute most by the end of April many fewer people involved will be interested in talking.
  517. [3/21/2016 6:01:19 AM] Da_Winci: On suas, we talked briefly after the incident.
  518. [3/21/2016 6:03:10 AM] Seraph Basarab: Ah almost forgot Triumvirate's up in Venal too now.
  519. [3/21/2016 6:03:14 AM] Da_Winci: Whatever Lex told you, expecting that anyone would just turn around and open their arms for their socalled liberators, is just naive.
  520. [3/21/2016 6:04:01 AM] Seraph Basarab: Oh he completely thinks this is unlikely. He's always doubted me. But so far I'm enjoying proving him wrong. Maybe this time I won't. Up to you.
  521. [3/21/2016 6:05:16 AM] Seraph Basarab: But I mean what choice do you have really? Your coalition leader is an idiot. Your allies are trash tier. The CFC has turned almost every semi competent alliance into mushy meatshields.
  522. [3/21/2016 6:06:04 AM] Seraph Basarab: You flip, you blue with TEST/OSS/OOS/Triumvriate...you already match the remnant of CFC fleet numbers. Bastion and LAWN either fold into you or die as PL/TISHU/NCdot completely burn all their shit down.
  523. [3/21/2016 6:06:50 AM] Seraph Basarab: You take the rest of Tribute from TNT, maybe even more, and you're the alliance that helped topple goons.
  524. [3/21/2016 6:07:34 AM] Seraph Basarab: I mean have goons ever respected Co2?
  525. [3/21/2016 6:07:50 AM] Da_Winci: You are calling shot that are not up to you to call. In any scenario we will be instrumental. Whatever your friends throw at us.
  526. [3/21/2016 6:09:04 AM] Seraph Basarab: Not calling a shot, making a judgement call on your value. You have value. People will respect that.
  527. [3/21/2016 6:09:23 AM] Da_Winci: And again and again, there is no love between us and goons. But do keep hitting on co2... be my guest. It will strengthen the necessity for goons to help.
  528. [3/21/2016 6:09:49 AM] Seraph Basarab: And you think they'll be enough?
  529. [3/21/2016 6:10:01 AM] Seraph Basarab: They will help how they did with your Titans?
  530. [3/21/2016 6:10:05 AM] Da_Winci: Of course not.
  531. [3/21/2016 6:10:18 AM] Da_Winci: Never was that naive.
  532. [3/21/2016 6:10:41 AM] Seraph Basarab: Then why not just make your move already. You'll grow in numbers, your alliance will be stronger. What's the fear?
  533. [3/21/2016 6:11:26 AM] Seraph Basarab: Goons betrayed you long before any of this in any case. They betrayed you when they gave you half of a region to split with TNT.
  534. [3/21/2016 6:11:28 AM] Seraph Basarab: Less then half*
  535. [3/21/2016 6:11:53 AM] Seraph Basarab: This is your opportunity to be bold and make your claim and make something historical happen in Eve.
  536. [3/21/2016 6:12:17 AM] Seraph Basarab: You would dwarf whatever Mittens keeps prattling on about regarding BoB.
  537. [3/21/2016 6:13:37 AM] Da_Winci: You can rehash that scenario endlessly for me. I know, I agree, I see, I understand... and you know my answer by now... I'm not in a hurry. At all
  538. [3/21/2016 6:14:19 AM] Da_Winci: So you can throw the rest of Eve against tribute it will not make me hurry more.
  539. [3/21/2016 6:15:08 AM] Seraph Basarab: I just think by the time you think you are ready, it'll be too late and people involved will rather watch co2 burn then negotiate with it.
  540. [3/21/2016 6:16:02 AM] Da_Winci: I don't have to do jack shit. Because the way your people approach co2 is very very similar. Instrumental respect... let's see how nc. would react when presented with the opportunity to take back tribute.
  541. [3/21/2016 6:16:22 AM] Da_Winci: Then so be it.
  542. [3/21/2016 6:16:50 AM] Seraph Basarab: How is Co2 being approached?
  543. [3/21/2016 6:17:11 AM] Da_Winci: Switch or else...
  544. [3/21/2016 6:17:20 AM] Seraph Basarab: How would you like to be approached?
  545. [3/21/2016 6:17:24 AM] Seraph Basarab: When that's the reality of it?
  546. [3/21/2016 6:17:36 AM] Da_Winci: That shows you people differ in nothing from goons.
  547. [3/21/2016 6:18:02 AM] Da_Winci: That quote could have come from Sion.
  548. [3/21/2016 6:18:08 AM] Seraph Basarab: It's binary. We're either allies or enemies. I'm not sure how else you want this sugar coated.
  549. [3/21/2016 6:18:39 AM] Seraph Basarab: I respect you enough to present the facts as they are.
  550. [3/21/2016 6:18:57 AM] Da_Winci: Nothing is binary. Specially not in eve.
  551. [3/21/2016 6:19:03 AM] Seraph Basarab: Then what's the 3rd option?
  552. [3/21/2016 6:23:18 AM] Da_Winci: Really? It will be, as always, some compromise between all of the above. Pushing for clear cut answers is useless, trust me
  553. [3/21/2016 6:23:44 AM] Seraph Basarab: Then lay it out for me so I can understand.
  554. [3/21/2016 6:28:30 AM] Seraph Basarab: Is there a 3rd option?
  555. [3/21/2016 6:40:27 AM] Da_Winci: You all understand that hitting the strong parts will trigger the wrong result. Both for you and for us. You will not break goons by breaking their strongest alliances. But clearly you're not up to attacking the root itself.
  556. Also, you've all been approaching several cfc alliances all with the same tune.. "Switch, switch now or..."   Exactly the way goons approach them. Now what would you do in that case? Trust the people threatening you? No. Same approach, same lack of respect. We will only deal with people that also our timeline. Not just use our strength and position to benefit them.
  557. [3/21/2016 6:41:22 AM] Seraph Basarab: You keep making the mistake I'm threatening you.
  558. [3/21/2016 6:41:33 AM] Seraph Basarab: And I'm not sure how many more ways I can explain it to you I'm not.
  559. [3/21/2016 6:41:41 AM] Da_Winci: So yes, any other approach will yield you absolutely Jack shit. Goons don't scare me, nor does the combined force presented to us now.
  560. [3/21/2016 6:42:18 AM] Seraph Basarab: If there is a "nicer" way you can be approached, a "third way" tell me then.
  561. [3/21/2016 6:42:22 AM] Seraph Basarab: I've been asking for half an hour.
  562. [3/21/2016 6:42:51 AM] Seraph Basarab: And no one's approached any other alliance in the CFC because the rest are trash quite frankly. At least nobody I know.
  563. [3/21/2016 6:47:04 AM] Seraph Basarab: I'm not making any threats. I don't make threats nor do I have a position to do so because I'm not in command of PL or whoever else. I'm simply letting you know what the likely outcome will be of your inaction.
  564. [3/22/2016 7:23:32 AM] Seraph Basarab: Everything safe with you and your family/friends?
  565. [3/22/2016 11:03:09 AM] Da_Winci: Got out safely. Trying to get home safely from Brussels now.
  566. [3/23/2016 5:56:49 PM] Seraph Basarab: How many cfc members do you think still feel that siding with goons is in their best interest?
  567. [3/23/2016 6:15:15 PM] Da_Winci: If I had the headspace to bother I'd tell you. RL doesn't give me any room to bother atm
  568. [3/23/2016 6:15:58 PM] Seraph Basarab: I understand. Some things are more important than this game. Most things are.
  569. [3/23/2016 7:24:40 PM] Da_Winci: Make me an offer concerning co2 - bastion and lawn. In the next 24hrs if possible.
  570. [3/23/2016 7:50:07 PM] Seraph Basarab: So this deal would be for all three? Are the other two parties in the know regarding our talks or do you plan on bringing them aboard once an offer is made?
  571. [3/24/2016 2:10:57 AM] Da_Winci: I talk for co2 ofc and co2 alone. I talk continuously with them and the time has come. For this to work we need more than co2 alone. I have a meeting with them in 12hours on this subject.
  572. [3/24/2016 2:27:34 AM] Seraph Basarab: As far as Co2 goes you'd keep Tribute and get standings and you would help us fight the CFC (TNT sov to start with.) If Bastion and LAWN can agree to those same terms they'll have the same deal.
  573. [3/24/2016 2:29:18 AM] Seraph Basarab: So you could essentially build your mini-coalition with Bastion and lawn and dunk on TNT.
  574. [3/24/2016 6:14:52 AM] Da_Winci: Standings with?
  575. [3/24/2016 10:28:27 AM] Seraph Basarab: PL, NCdot, TISHU, etc
  576. [3/24/2016 2:40:32 PM] Seraph Basarab: I
  577. [3/24/2016 2:40:41 PM] Seraph Basarab: I'll be back around midnight your time if you have any questions.
  578. [3/24/2016 8:12:11 PM] Seraph Basarab: I'm around if you need to talk
  579. [3/25/2016 6:38:21 PM] Seraph Basarab: What's Lawn and Bastion's take on this? I assume you spoke with Carneros and Thoric?
  580. [3/26/2016 5:14:04 PM] Seraph Basarab: wew there goes vale.
  581. [3/26/2016 6:02:58 PM] Seraph Basarab: PL already announced they are moving to Hakonen btw.
  582. [3/26/2016 7:31:24 PM] Seraph Basarab: And they're moving to Saranen? I guess they didn't like the offer to keep their space?
  583. [3/26/2016 7:41:23 PM] Da_Winci: i'm working 'on things' - we'll have a clear view of things this weekend, no worries
  584. [3/26/2016 7:42:49 PM] Seraph Basarab: happy easter btw
  585. [3/26/2016 7:43:06 PM] Da_Winci: i'm not a very religious person :)
  586. [3/26/2016 7:43:35 PM] Seraph Basarab: But lamb and wine is a God we can all bow down to ;)
  587. [3/27/2016 2:21:14 AM] Seraph Basarab: http://i.imgur.com/8HwRPWl.png
  588.  
  589. gigX is the best
  590. [3/27/2016 5:11:32 PM] Seraph Basarab: Standings are officially getting passed around on our end. Weekend's almost over. Let me know if your name should be on that list for standings too.
  591. [3/27/2016 7:31:22 PM] Da_Winci: what alliances are bound by that list?
  592. [3/27/2016 8:02:21 PM] Seraph Basarab: I don't have a full list but all the notable powers currently aimed against you more or less.
  593. [3/27/2016 8:02:53 PM] Da_Winci: good, was gonna log off - 2am here and wife wants something
  594. [3/27/2016 8:03:10 PM] Da_Winci: I gave Judge the details, hash it out with him
  595. [3/27/2016 8:03:44 PM] Seraph Basarab: Alright. Take care.
  596. [3/28/2016 3:28:43 AM] Seraph Basarab: So terms as they stand so far is Co2 stays in Tribute, turns on CFC, works with voltronboiis.
  597. [3/28/2016 3:29:35 AM] Da_Winci: I'll be on comms as soon as get out of bed :)
  598. [3/28/2016 3:29:45 AM] Seraph Basarab: np
  599. [3/28/2016 5:29:46 AM] Da_Winci: active, whenever you're ready
  600. [3/28/2016 5:31:21 AM] Seraph Basarab: I guess we're waiting on sabre A who is asleep...since its his front
  601. [3/28/2016 5:31:32 AM] Seraph Basarab: But we can talk us two if you'd like on here until then
  602. [3/28/2016 10:00:29 AM] Seraph Basarab: gigx around?
  603. [3/28/2016 10:02:56 AM] Da_Winci: he is in the room yes
  604. [3/28/2016 11:56:18 AM] Seraph Basarab: So what are your thoughts on the terms
  605. [3/28/2016 11:57:58 AM] Da_Winci: we agreed on them - so i'm favorable towards them
  606. [3/28/2016 11:58:36 AM] Da_Winci: some details need to be sorted still, but overall it's a fair agreement
  607. [3/28/2016 11:58:52 AM] Seraph Basarab: What's the agreement as you understand it so we're on the same page
  608. [3/28/2016 12:00:46 PM] Da_Winci: CO2 holds Trib (no sov attacks on us) - we actively participate against goons
  609. [3/28/2016 12:00:59 PM] Da_Winci: the most important points there
  610. [3/28/2016 12:01:11 PM] Da_Winci: we publicly denounce goons
  611. [3/28/2016 12:01:48 PM] Da_Winci: and (less openly) I try to sway BASTN - LAWN - INIT
  612. [3/28/2016 12:02:06 PM] Seraph Basarab: I heard boson had been talking to you a bit as well
  613. [3/28/2016 12:02:32 PM] Da_Winci: details to be sorted - srp and the exact timing (which will be soon after tonight)
  614. [3/28/2016 12:02:56 PM] Da_Winci: I talked primarily with Boson and Suas
  615. [3/28/2016 12:03:24 PM] Da_Winci: Killah Bee was present also but not from the very beginning
  616. [3/28/2016 12:03:40 PM] Da_Winci: so is that the same page for you?
  617. [3/28/2016 12:04:29 PM] Seraph Basarab: Yeah. Personally I wouldn't make It a requirement that you "denounce the cfc" I mean your actions speak for that. It sounds kind of weird in my point of view but that's fine. If you'd like we can do an interview with you for EN24 and let you get your statement out.
  618. [3/28/2016 12:06:25 PM] Da_Winci: statement is already prepped. When the trigger is pulled anyone can publish it.  Interview is cool also tho I (and we as CO2) are not out to be pixel famous. We just do our thing as always
  619. [3/28/2016 12:07:10 PM] Seraph Basarab: Of course. Just for practical purposes. Always helpful to get your view across. I can't wait to see Mitten's spin this for his fireside.
  620. [3/28/2016 12:08:22 PM] Da_Winci: true, but we don't feel the need to 'convince' people of what we do or why we do it.  You know this would happen eventually and we'll just let our actions speak :)
  621. [3/28/2016 12:08:50 PM] Da_Winci: I leave the comment sections to the forum jockeys - me not being one of them
  622. [3/28/2016 12:09:16 PM] Seraph Basarab: your call, more for us jockeys to enjoy then ;)
  623. [3/28/2016 12:09:24 PM] Da_Winci: yep :)
  624. [3/28/2016 12:09:41 PM] Seraph Basarab: Going to be so funny seeing TNT eat shit so fast too.
  625. [3/28/2016 12:09:59 PM] Da_Winci: people that need to know what happened already know and understand ... the others? Internet content
  626. [3/28/2016 12:10:18 PM] Da_Winci: that part actually makes me happy
  627. [3/28/2016 12:10:43 PM] Da_Winci: fucking finally having a go at Wibla - I'm so goiong to enjoy that
  628. [3/28/2016 12:10:52 PM] Da_Winci: *going
  629. [3/28/2016 12:13:59 PM] Seraph Basarab: "eat shit" haha
  630. [3/28/2016 12:14:39 PM] Da_Winci: not the words I'd use, but it will come across as that yes
  631. [3/28/2016 1:18:35 PM] Seraph Basarab: So I guess boson wants us to wait for "something"
  632. [3/28/2016 1:18:45 PM] Seraph Basarab: sabre a to log in or whatever
  633. [3/28/2016 1:19:10 PM] Seraph Basarab: btw did boson contact you guys or did you contact boson
  634. [3/28/2016 1:19:34 PM] Da_Winci: I been talking to him for weeks now
  635. [3/28/2016 1:19:50 PM] Seraph Basarab: Yeah but who reached out to who
  636. [3/28/2016 1:20:49 PM] Da_Winci: Suas did why?
  637. [3/28/2016 1:21:03 PM] Seraph Basarab: was just curious
  638. [3/28/2016 2:35:31 PM] Seraph Basarab: Have you guys already made it official with vince etc?
  639. [3/28/2016 2:35:50 PM] Da_Winci: i talked to him shortly today
  640. [3/28/2016 2:35:59 PM] Da_Winci: he knows
  641. [3/28/2016 2:36:07 PM] Seraph Basarab: boson said there's suppose to be a meeting or something but he wants to wait for sabre...
  642. [3/28/2016 2:36:12 PM] Seraph Basarab: but boson also smokes a lot of weed so...
  643. [3/28/2016 5:56:58 PM] Seraph Basarab: Do you want to e-mail me your statement so I can prep it for release?
  644. [3/28/2016 6:01:53 PM] Da_Winci: i will go over it with Suas if I can get a hold of him
  645. [3/28/2016 6:02:02 PM] Da_Winci: fucking Tidi
  646. [3/28/2016 6:02:09 PM] Seraph Basarab: yeah I saw it's disgusting
  647. [3/28/2016 7:47:27 PM] Seraph Basarab: Do you mind if in my article I discuss some of our exchanges? Nothing too specific just kind of when we started talking, what were some common points of concern etc
  648. [3/28/2016 7:53:52 PM] Da_Winci: sure
  649. [3/28/2016 8:09:33 PM] Seraph Basarab: Look at them
  650. [3/28/2016 8:09:35 PM] Seraph Basarab: they're in total shock
  651. [3/28/2016 8:09:38 PM] Seraph Basarab: They don't even know what to do
  652. [3/28/2016 8:10:02 PM] Da_Winci: just went to the standings list - fingers hurting
  653. [3/28/2016 8:10:14 PM] Seraph Basarab: Push through the pain!
  654. [3/29/2016 1:56:56 AM] Da_Winci: You actually publicly used our logs???
  655. [3/29/2016 1:57:38 AM] Seraph Basarab: just a line out of context
  656. [3/29/2016 1:58:30 AM] Da_Winci: Shall I link you the screenshot?
  657. [3/29/2016 1:58:40 AM] Da_Winci: A line??
  658. [3/29/2016 1:59:40 AM] Seraph Basarab: Yeah just that we were talking.
  659. [3/29/2016 1:59:42 AM] Seraph Basarab: [3/28/2016 7:47:27 PM] Seraph Basarab: Do you mind if in my article I discuss some of our exchanges? Nothing too specific just kind of when we started talking, what were some common points of concern etc
  660. [3/28/2016 7:53:52 PM] Da_Winci: sure
  661. [3/29/2016 2:01:22 AM] Da_Winci: Nothing specific means you don't release screenshots of the actual talk. Nor do you suggest this was planned back then.
  662. [3/29/2016 2:01:37 AM] Seraph Basarab: I didn't say it was planned back then. I stated we were talking.
  663. [3/29/2016 2:01:58 AM] Seraph Basarab: People can talk about their feelings regarding a game. Don't freak out listen to the stream. I gave you guys huge props.
  664. [3/29/2016 2:04:08 AM] Seraph Basarab: [12/20/2015 5:57:03 PM] Da_Winci: pls keep me posted on how they would actually react when what we discussed becomes a reality
  665. [3/29/2016 2:04:11 AM] Seraph Basarab: that was your line
  666. [3/29/2016 2:04:14 AM] Seraph Basarab: Is it too much you think?
  667. [3/29/2016 2:09:02 AM] Da_Winci: I just woke up after a looong night and almost no sleep. I don't need to wake up to screenshots with my name on it splattered across eve sites
  668. [3/29/2016 2:09:24 AM] Seraph Basarab: It was a 10 minute stream interview man relax. Who is freaking you out about this?
  669. [3/29/2016 2:09:54 AM] Seraph Basarab: I said you guys weren't looking to betray CFC but you were considering your options. You felt mistreated. You were loyal members. You brought most of the fleets. Said some stuff about geography and that was kind of it.
  670. [3/29/2016 2:14:46 AM] Da_Winci: Analyze all you want. Don't link screens with convos with my name in it okay
  671. [3/29/2016 2:15:23 AM] Seraph Basarab: Alright
  672. [3/29/2016 7:32:44 AM] Seraph Basarab: "Despite these numerous insults, Co2 was committed to wanting to work out their situation within the coalition as best they could. They were interested not only in the well being of their own alliance, but would often discuss the well being of Bastion and LAWN. Hardly the "back stabbing traitors" Mittens would want to spin Co2 as."
  673.  
  674. Excerpt from the article I'm writing up.
  675. [3/29/2016 8:57:24 AM] Seraph Basarab: Alright almost wrapped up. I have not used any of the CO2 names of individuals and posted no private logs. I used quotes from the public statement made on reddit, expressed my personal experience and stated personal opinions regarding what I thought motivations were.
  676. [3/29/2016 9:06:17 AM] Da_Winci: sounds good to me :)
  677. [3/29/2016 9:07:36 AM] Seraph Basarab: How are the line members taking all of this?
  678. [3/29/2016 9:08:06 AM] Da_Winci: i've held open office on TS all morning and most are happy and excited
  679. [3/29/2016 9:08:28 AM] Da_Winci: some valid concerns and issues raised, but overall the mood is positive
  680. [3/29/2016 9:09:45 AM] Seraph Basarab: If you ever need my help with anything I'm happy to do what I can. I know SUAS is also pulling for you guys. Co2's the type of alliance that deserves to be out in 0.0...not these servile pets that cling to the goon's skirt.
  681. [3/29/2016 9:10:13 AM] Seraph Basarab: I've been enjoying the mitten's firechat. Never heard him speak so fast
  682. [3/29/2016 9:10:57 AM] Da_Winci: most are baffled - means that they didnt see it coming - which means that the people I work with can be trusted
  683. [3/29/2016 9:11:03 AM] Da_Winci: and thats important
  684. [3/29/2016 9:11:37 AM] Seraph Basarab: I couldn't help but smile when Mittens remarked how "We were caught completely flat footed."
  685. [3/29/2016 9:12:05 AM] Seraph Basarab: I spoke with lex about our talks early on even back in December and he just kind of waved me off. "yeah yeah i'll believe it when I see it seraph"
  686. [3/29/2016 9:12:54 AM] Da_Winci: I dont think he was. Or should've been.  If you would know what I told him in our last convo... I was pretty blunt, a good listener would have understood then
  687. [3/29/2016 9:14:42 AM] Seraph Basarab: Laz flat out said he doesn't think the cfc can win and he sounded so down
  688. [3/29/2016 9:19:03 AM] Seraph Basarab: I have to be honest for a long time I thought you were just stringing me along for intel perhaps. Like by some crazy conspiracy you were talking with mittens the whole time.
  689. [3/29/2016 9:55:03 AM] Da_Winci: I see your point and was aware ... but seen the situation that was neccesary :) but I was being honest all the time
  690. [3/29/2016 9:55:55 AM] Seraph Basarab: I think that you did everything as you should have or as close as possible to it.
  691. [3/29/2016 1:58:59 PM] Da_Winci: One small remark on the article on eve24. Judge is not the head diplo. I am. Please correct. He loves the spotlight more than I do, but he's a senior diplo (we have 2). I'm the head diplo around here.
  692. [3/29/2016 5:40:38 PM] Seraph Basarab: yeah cupcake is new (the guy who published/wrote it) Ill let them know
  693. [3/29/2016 5:43:07 PM] Da_Winci: appreciated
  694. [4/1/2016 4:44:33 AM] Seraph Basarab: How are things with you guys
  695. [4/1/2016 4:44:57 AM] Da_Winci: dust is slowly settling - and I'm exhausted by now
  696. [4/1/2016 4:45:10 AM] Da_Winci: but still, the overall mood is very positive
  697. [4/1/2016 4:45:51 AM] Seraph Basarab: saw TNT is being liberated from their territory quite nicely
  698. [4/1/2016 4:46:39 AM] Da_Winci: as said, we will go after TNT immediately ...
  699. [4/1/2016 4:47:18 AM] Seraph Basarab: Any "tears" from wibla and his friends
  700. [4/1/2016 4:48:02 AM] Da_Winci: nope, he was afk most of the time anyway - we'll not hear from him cause he couldnt be arsed to care in the first place
  701. [4/1/2016 3:51:52 PM] Seraph Basarab: Hey this won't go in any article but I was curious who else came to negotiate with you about leaving the cfc
  702. [4/1/2016 3:55:23 PM] Da_Winci: what organisation or person?
  703. [4/1/2016 3:55:52 PM] Seraph Basarab: person
  704. [4/1/2016 3:58:33 PM] Da_Winci: none - it was mentioned in several chats with people, but never actually the main subject
  705. [4/1/2016 4:01:58 PM] Seraph Basarab: I thought so. It's funny that people who weren't involved or were even against the idea are coming out of the woodwork to scream from the top of the tree that they "made co2 flip." People are...people.
  706. [4/1/2016 4:04:36 PM] Seraph Basarab: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1PPS4B1M5JUH-RvWTgi0Rxatjuq8X2-nv0twmG-mRSNA/preview
  707. [4/1/2016 4:04:39 PM] Seraph Basarab: Is this real?
  708. [4/1/2016 4:04:46 PM] Seraph Basarab: 100 pages on you guys from gsf?
  709. [4/1/2016 4:06:53 PM] Da_Winci: saw it passing by in leadership channel - the effort to read would kill me - dunno if it's legit - prolly yes
  710. [4/2/2016 5:23:55 PM] Seraph Basarab: Sion must be pretty upset to leave all those logs
  711. [4/2/2016 5:24:50 PM] Da_Winci: he is supposed to be upset - it's his job on the line
  712. [4/3/2016 7:56:05 PM] Seraph Basarab: https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/4d8kuk/fcon_officially_evaccing_branch/
  713.  
  714. So with this happening....remember that Romanian corp in FCON I told you about?
  715. [4/3/2016 8:06:10 PM] Da_Winci: They finally interested?
  716. [4/3/2016 8:06:33 PM] Seraph Basarab: I haven't spoken with them but it may be better coming from you or some other Romanians in your alliance
  717. [4/3/2016 8:09:41 PM] Da_Winci: Could you already tell them I'm interested? I'll contact them tomorrow. In bed already. Well finally :)
  718. [4/3/2016 8:10:00 PM] Seraph Basarab: Alright I'll poke my contact there then.
  719. [4/3/2016 8:10:38 PM] Da_Winci: I'll have my Romanian guys on it as well.
  720. [4/3/2016 8:10:45 PM] Seraph Basarab: Perfect
  721. [4/3/2016 8:11:27 PM] Seraph Basarab: Just curious do you guys intend on holding more territory than Tribute and your slice in Vale?
  722. [4/3/2016 8:11:55 PM] Da_Winci: Curious? :)
  723. [4/3/2016 8:12:24 PM] Da_Winci: Seems everything has been divided already
  724. [4/3/2016 8:12:39 PM] Seraph Basarab: Only thing I know is that TEST wants Dek
  725. [4/3/2016 8:13:05 PM] Da_Winci: Really? Who takes vale??
  726. [4/3/2016 8:13:24 PM] Seraph Basarab: I don't get to sit at the big big table of planning since a lot of people still have the impression I'm "just an EN24 writer."
  727. [4/3/2016 8:13:27 PM] Seraph Basarab: No idea about vale
  728. [4/3/2016 8:13:59 PM] Seraph Basarab: Maybe TEST will take it short term then transfer to Dek
  729. [4/3/2016 8:14:01 PM] Da_Winci: I'm not at that table either. So no clue
  730. [4/3/2016 8:14:19 PM] Da_Winci: What is that corps ticker?
  731. [4/3/2016 8:14:55 PM] Seraph Basarab: http://evemaps.dotlan.net/corp/Gladius_Veritatis
  732. [4/3/2016 8:15:17 PM] Seraph Basarab: I've only spoken with them lightly in the past so there's no "official discussion" going on
  733. [4/3/2016 8:16:34 PM] Da_Winci: Kk. Will sort that tomorrow then. Thanks!
  734. [4/3/2016 8:16:44 PM] Seraph Basarab: Take care
  735. [4/4/2016 5:20:10 AM] Seraph Basarab: Apparently you guys are in trouble. the "end game does not look good for co2"
  736. [4/4/2016 5:20:57 AM] Da_Winci: Says who?
  737. [4/4/2016 5:21:07 AM] Seraph Basarab: https://www.themittani.com/columns/end-game-does-not-look-good-co2
  738. [4/4/2016 5:21:11 AM] Seraph Basarab: Why the latest issue of Pravda comrade
  739. [4/4/2016 5:21:39 AM] Seraph Basarab: Chairman Mittani has blessed his propaganda acolyte to disseminate the truth to the unbelievers.
  740. [4/6/2016 6:59:03 AM] Seraph Basarab: Did you guys really forward CFC CSAA build documents to the MBC?
  741. [4/6/2016 6:59:54 AM] Da_Winci: I know we have (most of) them.
  742. [4/6/2016 7:00:14 AM] Seraph Basarab: Alright ;) I read you loud and clear
  743. [4/6/2016 7:01:00 AM] Seraph Basarab: btw great video that you guys released
  744. [4/6/2016 7:01:30 AM] Da_Winci: :) bit late, but media guys nailed it
  745. [4/7/2016 7:09:56 AM] Seraph Basarab: Jeffraider says that a few more CSAAs and they'll have beaten B-R
  746. [4/8/2016 1:41:46 AM] Seraph Basarab: fcon evac bus gassed
  747. [4/8/2016 6:56:38 AM] Seraph Basarab: is merc coalition working with you guys to take tribute or are they just taking the sov by themselves
  748. [4/8/2016 7:11:30 AM] Da_Winci: We are coordinating that. Talked to sabre about it, it's sorted
  749. [4/8/2016 2:39:08 PM] Seraph Basarab: Okay wonderful. I didn't want there to be any issue so that's great.
  750. [4/8/2016 3:00:20 PM] Seraph Basarab: Mitten's hasn't been public in almost 4 or 5 days now...
  751. [4/8/2016 3:08:10 PM] Da_Winci: his income is under threat... no wonder
  752. [4/8/2016 3:09:55 PM] Seraph Basarab: How awesome do you guys feel being in basically the eye of the storm of all of this happening. Every time he's talked since you guys left the cfc has made mention of "the back stabbers"
  753. [4/8/2016 3:11:58 PM] Da_Winci: meh.. we don't have the culture or urge to be in the spotlight. We do what we think is best. If he wants to put us in the spotlight so be it.  I have an alliance to run... he should have run the coalition (properly). He didnt, we try to :)
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