Rise of the Superheroes (2018)

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Once they were
larger-than-life idols

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created to
entertain children

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and were dismissed
by the adult world.

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But in the new
millennium,

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characters created over
half a century ago

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have re-emerged to dominate
the box office world wide.

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This is the story
of how superheroes

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have successfully
transitioned

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from the comic book page
to the silver screen

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and conquered
popular culture...

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What
comics had over movies

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is they were ahead
of the audience.

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They were
a rough and ready

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cheap to produce medium.

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And Hollywood
is just now,

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50, 60 years later
catching up.

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Mr. Robert Downey Jr.

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The idea to me

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of high school jocks
and the popular kids

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grabbing
their buddies together

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and racing out
on opening night

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to see a movie where
Thor and Captain America

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and Iron Man fend off
an alien invasion

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was mind-boggling.

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There's
still an appeal for characters

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an audience
can see themselves in

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but can see
what they wish they could do

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and just cannot.
That they can fly.

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That they can
swing from webs.

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That they can
beat up a bully.

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And there's just
something intrinsically cool

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and appealing about
superheroes who do that.

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This is now exploding.

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It is the mainstream.

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Summer, 1989.

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A new phenomenon
has arisen

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that fuels the imagination of
audiences across the globe.

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Ever since the
first reports

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that a new Batman feature
film was imminent,

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helmed by young director
Tim Burton,

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anticipation
has been high.

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And now, as the film prepares
for general release,

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on the streets
of cities world wide

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its presence is impossible
to ignore.

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This phenomenon is quickly
called "Batmania".

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There really
had never been anything

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quite like it
at that magnitude.

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You'd seen
merchandise successes,

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obviously Star Wars.

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You'd seen
merchandizing failures.

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Dr. Dolittle.

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You would see
other things follow it

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like Dick Tracy.

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But this one was different.

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It was
so alien and so crazy

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and the anticipation
was so high.

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I remember when I was a kid
and the trailer came out.

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I remember being
with all my friends

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and we just looked
at each other.

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We paid to go in the theater

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just to watch the trailer
'cause there was no Internet.

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- Vicki Vale.
- Bruce Wayne.

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And what do you do for a living?

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We just sat there

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with our mouths open.

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What alternate reality
did I wake up in

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where I'm watching a trailer
for a Batmanmovie?

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And although the
focus of this hysteria

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was a new feature film,

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the release
reawakened interest

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in the character
of Batman himself

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and helped revitalize
the medium

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from which he
had emerged -

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the comic book.

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When Tim
Burton's Batman came out

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people were definitely
reading comics,

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but it wasn't super cool
to be reading comics.

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But when that film came out
and the marketing started

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and you had just
that Bat symbol

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it looked so cool.
It wasn't about the actors.

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It was just about the symbol
and the character.

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The whole marketing plan

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behind the Tim Burton
Batman film

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did so much to broaden
comic book culture

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and superhero culture
into all kinds of merchandise

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and all kinds
of mainstream fashion.

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I remember I was
in high school

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just a few years earlier

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and I never wore
superhero t-shirts

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and I don't remember
seeing anybody who did.

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Then all of a
sudden in 1989

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everyone's wearing
Batman t-shirts.

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That's the point where
geek culture, if you will,

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had started to become cool.

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The film was
released to coincide

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with the 50th anniversary of
its iconic lead character,

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and during Batman's
half-century lifespan,

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comic books,

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and the superheroes portrayed
in their pages,

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had drifted in and out
of mainstream consciousness.

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But they had never been
'cool' before,

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and from the
very inception

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of the American
comic book industry

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in the late 1930s,

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they had always
been dismissed

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as throwaway entertainment
for children.

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It was an
industry pitched to kids.

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They were cheap.
They cost a dime.

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They were sold in drugstores
and candy stores.

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Kids would show up
and would put their dime,

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their 20, 30 cents.

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They'd roll them up,
stick them in their back pocket.

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Maybe they'd trade them
with friends.

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They were basically
something you bought

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with a soda
and a pack of bubble gum.

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You stored them
under your bed.

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And when you grew up

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and you were 16
you never read them again.

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But
from the pages

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of these
children's picture books

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would emerge heroes who have
endured until the present day.

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Although the formative years
of the industry were focused

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on short strips
and comedy characters,

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by the late 1930s
two of its defining icons

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were developed by New
York publisher DC comics.

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In Action Comics
Issue One,

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duo Jerry Siegel
and Joe Shuster

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introduced Superman,

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and in response
the following year

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Bob Kane and Bill Finger
created Batman.

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The all-powerful
son of Krypton

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and the Dark
Knight Detective

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became archetypes for all
of the superheroes

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who followed
in their wake.

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When Superman was created

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they did create a superhero
from another planet

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who is in effect almost
like a god, but not.

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He really wants
to be a man.

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He really wants
to be Clark Kent.

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He is the end of the spectrum.

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All superheroes
are less than him.

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Batman is not
a superhero at all.

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He just wears a costume.

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Batman is an everyman

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who trained himself
to become a great detective

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and a great athlete.

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All the other comic
book superheroes

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lie between
these two characters.

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These are the alpha
and omega of our industry.

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An immediate
hit with young readers,

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comic book publishers rushed
to develop new superheroes

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to capitalize on the success
of Superman and Batman.

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And this creative boom
occurred

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just as another industry
was also enjoying

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an upsurge of interest
from young audiences.

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With the advent of sound
in cinema,

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Hollywood was thriving,

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and film companies were
looking for new material

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to bring to the
silver screen.

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With their larger-than-life
characters

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and their dynamic
visual style,

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comic books represented

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an instantly compatible
artform.

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Comics at their
best are very cinematic.

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If you look at storyboards
for movies,

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they're comic book pages.

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The closer
you can get comics

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to the feel of a movie
and the flow of a movie

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the better they are.

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Not to say that one medium
is superior over the other.

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In the
late 30s, early 40s

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when people went to the movies
it was an all-day affair.

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You would have an 'A' picture,
you'd have a 'B' picture,

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you'd have cartoons,
shorts, newsreels.

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And really far down on the bill
was something called a serial.

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Flash!

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Don't fire.

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Save yourself, Flash.

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You'll be burned to a cinder.

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I'm setting you free first.

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He has chosen his own death!

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These
were the bottom feeders

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for mostly kids
who saw Saturday matinees.

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They might be
18 minutes long,

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they were black and white,

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they were filmed
on an absolute shoestring.

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They started
with westerns.

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Flash Gordon crept in
in the late 30s

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and someone spent
an extra $1.50.

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Superheroes start appearing on the
scene, '38, '39, '40,

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so it was a no brainer
to try to get them in

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to these movies.

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It was
pretty logical that

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once comic book superheroes
did become

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very popular and visible

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that they would make
the transition

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or attempt to make
the transition to the screen,

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to the cinema.

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Bob Kane, Bill Finger
were very influenced

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by Citizen Kane.

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Jerry Robinson,
an early Batman artist,

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took a lot of images from

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German expressionist
films

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and put that intoBatman.

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Of course, when a Batman
serial did come out,

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it didn't look anything like
Citizen Kane

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or anything like
German expressionist films.

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Oh, a Jap!

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It is useless
for you to struggle.

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My zombies are too strong,

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even for a superior person
like yourself to cope with.

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When I was a kid,
I watched the Batman serials,

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which were terrible.

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I watched the Superman
serials which were great.

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I watched all this stuff
when I went to the movies

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with my friends.

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So it wasn't just
the comic books

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we had rolled up
in our back pocket.

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It was the serials that
we saw on Saturday morning

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with the cartoons.

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Those things were part
of an evolutionary process

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that got cut in 1953.

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Just asSuperman
graduated from the serials

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to a household name through a
successful television show,

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comic books fell
under the scrutiny

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of the US censors.

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As national concerns
over juvenile delinquency

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reached fever pitch,

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comic books were singled-out
as a bad influence

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on young,
impressionable minds.

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Having entered
the mainstream momentarily,

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superheroes were once again
cast into obscurity.

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And here they remained

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until the world was turned
upside down in the 1960s.

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As the Beatles heralded
the dawn of a vibrant,

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youth-driven popular culture,
into this brave new world

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came the return to screens of
the Dark Knight detective.

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And unlike
his past incarnation

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in the movie serials,

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this Batman became
an international sensation.

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Yes, Commissioner.

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Dreadful news. Catwoman is
on the prowl again.

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We're on our way.

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To the Batpoles.

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WhenBatman appeared

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on American television
in 1966,

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no one had really
seen Batman.

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There were a
couple of serials

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but this was a full color
multi-million dollar

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twice weekly television episode.

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And the great thing that people
forget about the '66 Batman

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was it was shown
at 7:30 at night

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and it was the first
superhero thing, media thing

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ever pitched at a time
when adults could also watch it.

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00:11:32,169 --> 00:11:34,694
Batman became
an adult phenomenon.

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It exploded this world
of Bat paraphernalia

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and Bat merchandise.

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I would venture to say
that the Batmobile

259
00:11:41,657 --> 00:11:44,921
from the 1966-67 series

260
00:11:44,965 --> 00:11:46,923
is probably still
the most recognizable car

261
00:11:46,967 --> 00:11:48,011
in American history.

262
00:11:54,931 --> 00:11:57,847
Just as I thought, she's mined
the road with explosives.

263
00:11:57,891 --> 00:11:59,675
No wonder you had me
put on the Bat armor.

264
00:11:59,719 --> 00:12:01,633
Gosh, you really think
of everything, Batman.

265
00:12:06,073 --> 00:12:08,771
What's that?

266
00:12:08,815 --> 00:12:11,078
Although the Bat armor
protected our car,

267
00:12:11,121 --> 00:12:13,254
those landmines blew our tires.

268
00:12:13,297 --> 00:12:15,822
Robin, turn on the automatic
tire repair device.

269
00:12:18,868 --> 00:12:21,784
In the 1960s,
you had theBatman TV show

270
00:12:21,828 --> 00:12:25,440
which was extremely successful,
but it was all about camp.

271
00:12:25,483 --> 00:12:28,312
It was walking this line
between on the one hand

272
00:12:28,356 --> 00:12:31,925
kids were happy
to see their hero on TV

273
00:12:31,968 --> 00:12:34,797
and generally took
the adventures at face value,

274
00:12:34,841 --> 00:12:37,365
but, of course, adults were
watching it and laughing at it

275
00:12:37,408 --> 00:12:39,280
and by implication laughing

276
00:12:39,323 --> 00:12:41,456
at comic book
superheroes in general.

277
00:12:41,499 --> 00:12:42,849
Got you, you thieves!

278
00:12:42,892 --> 00:12:44,633
One move and you're a dead duo.

279
00:12:44,676 --> 00:12:45,895
Holy Bat trap!

280
00:12:45,939 --> 00:12:47,810
Let's fight our way out of this.

281
00:12:52,249 --> 00:12:55,252
It was
intended to be campy.

282
00:12:55,296 --> 00:12:57,820
It was intended
to be a satire.

283
00:12:57,864 --> 00:13:00,605
The writing of the show
was stupid and wonderful

284
00:13:00,649 --> 00:13:03,304
at the same time. It was
just a fantastic thing.

285
00:13:03,347 --> 00:13:06,786
It wasn't Batman
but it was a good satire.

286
00:13:06,829 --> 00:13:08,396
It was inspiring

287
00:13:08,439 --> 00:13:09,701
because you could
then look at it and say,

288
00:13:09,745 --> 00:13:12,052
"That's not Batman.

289
00:13:12,095 --> 00:13:14,619
But at least
we're doing comic books.

290
00:13:14,663 --> 00:13:16,621
It's beginning, OK."

291
00:13:16,665 --> 00:13:18,841
Who had the foresight
to know it's beginning?

292
00:13:18,885 --> 00:13:20,800
Nobody. Not really.

293
00:13:20,843 --> 00:13:22,453
But now we can look back
on it and say,

294
00:13:22,497 --> 00:13:24,586
"Yes, it's beginning."

295
00:13:24,629 --> 00:13:28,024
While this pop art
parody was propelling Batman

296
00:13:28,068 --> 00:13:31,245
into the very heart of
the 60s cultural revolution,

297
00:13:31,288 --> 00:13:32,899
in the comic book world,

298
00:13:32,942 --> 00:13:35,423
a new force was
transforming the industry

299
00:13:35,466 --> 00:13:38,992
and rewriting the rules -
Marvel.

300
00:13:39,035 --> 00:13:40,950
Although the company
had its origins

301
00:13:40,994 --> 00:13:43,823
in the comic book boom
of the late 1930s,

302
00:13:43,866 --> 00:13:45,650
it was in the 1960s

303
00:13:45,694 --> 00:13:48,088
that it truly made
its presence felt,

304
00:13:48,131 --> 00:13:49,829
powered by
the remarkable drive

305
00:13:49,872 --> 00:13:52,875
of writer and editor,
Stan Lee.

306
00:13:52,919 --> 00:13:54,703
In a surge of
inspiration,

307
00:13:54,746 --> 00:13:57,967
he created a wealth
of very modern superheroes

308
00:13:58,011 --> 00:14:00,883
who proved
to have an enduring appeal.

309
00:14:00,927 --> 00:14:03,103
The Hulk,
Spider-Man, Daredevil,

310
00:14:03,146 --> 00:14:05,322
The Avengers, Iron Man -

311
00:14:05,366 --> 00:14:06,889
these are the cadre

312
00:14:06,933 --> 00:14:09,239
of great Marvel characters
that he created

313
00:14:09,283 --> 00:14:12,242
with Jack Kirby and Steve Ditko
almost overnight.

314
00:14:12,286 --> 00:14:15,811
He created them all within
two years which is astonishing.

315
00:14:15,855 --> 00:14:19,510
And what Stan Lee did was
to take these costume geeks,

316
00:14:19,554 --> 00:14:22,557
these weirdoes, and set them
in New York City,

317
00:14:22,600 --> 00:14:25,908
and he could bring in
tensions from the 1960s,

318
00:14:25,952 --> 00:14:29,694
radiation,
communism, alienation,

319
00:14:29,738 --> 00:14:33,089
and he simply made them
psychological and human.

320
00:14:33,133 --> 00:14:36,440
Every Marvel hero,
no matter how ridiculous,

321
00:14:37,354 --> 00:14:39,574
tried to have a base

322
00:14:39,617 --> 00:14:44,666
in a reality that the audience
could understand.

323
00:14:44,709 --> 00:14:48,713
I had no interest
in Clark Kent's life,

324
00:14:48,757 --> 00:14:50,193
or Superman's life.

325
00:14:50,237 --> 00:14:54,545
Bruce Wayne was
as far beyond the reality

326
00:14:54,589 --> 00:14:56,286
I was seeing around me

327
00:14:56,330 --> 00:14:59,768
as realistically Donald Trump.

328
00:14:59,811 --> 00:15:03,032
That was what was cool
about Spider-Man,

329
00:15:03,076 --> 00:15:04,947
about Peter Parker.

330
00:15:04,991 --> 00:15:06,122
He's a high
school student

331
00:15:06,166 --> 00:15:07,776
and he was
a high school student

332
00:15:07,819 --> 00:15:10,083
in a way
that appealed to geeks -

333
00:15:10,126 --> 00:15:12,868
he wore a tie,
a sleeveless vest.

334
00:15:12,912 --> 00:15:16,785
That struck painfully
close to home.

335
00:15:16,828 --> 00:15:18,308
These Marvel characters

336
00:15:18,352 --> 00:15:20,528
soon became
household names,

337
00:15:20,571 --> 00:15:22,704
quickly transferred
from the comic book page

338
00:15:22,747 --> 00:15:24,140
to the television set

339
00:15:24,184 --> 00:15:26,751
through successful
cartoon series.

340
00:15:26,795 --> 00:15:28,928
Their appeal
was largely confined

341
00:15:28,971 --> 00:15:30,625
to the youth market,
however,

342
00:15:30,668 --> 00:15:32,801
and superheroes continued
to be regarded

343
00:15:32,844 --> 00:15:34,455
as children's
entertainment.

344
00:15:36,109 --> 00:15:38,981
This would alter
in the following decade.

345
00:15:39,025 --> 00:15:40,591
With a change
in ownership,

346
00:15:40,635 --> 00:15:44,160
DC comics had been brought
into Warner Communications,

347
00:15:44,204 --> 00:15:45,683
a vast media group

348
00:15:45,727 --> 00:15:48,469
with a powerful
film production arm.

349
00:15:48,512 --> 00:15:50,950
This led, in 1978,

350
00:15:50,993 --> 00:15:53,865
to the first
superhero blockbuster,

351
00:15:53,909 --> 00:15:56,346
featuring DC's pioneering
Man of Steel...

352
00:16:07,575 --> 00:16:09,664
While
Marvel was outdoing DC

353
00:16:09,707 --> 00:16:11,144
in the comic books

354
00:16:11,187 --> 00:16:13,146
it was totally the opposite
in cinema

355
00:16:13,189 --> 00:16:15,409
because DC had
the most recognizable characters

356
00:16:15,452 --> 00:16:17,150
for a mass audience.

357
00:16:17,193 --> 00:16:20,457
So when the Christopher Reeve
Supermanmovie came out

358
00:16:20,501 --> 00:16:22,633
that was obviously
a huge success.

359
00:16:26,898 --> 00:16:28,726
What the hell's that?

360
00:16:30,163 --> 00:16:31,860
Easy, Miss. I've got you.

361
00:16:31,903 --> 00:16:34,906
You... You've got me?
Who's got you?!

362
00:16:36,821 --> 00:16:38,171
It came
at a particular time

363
00:16:38,214 --> 00:16:40,129
when big ticket cinema events

364
00:16:40,173 --> 00:16:42,001
were suddenly really appealing
to audiences.

365
00:16:42,044 --> 00:16:43,872
The idea of queueing
round the block,

366
00:16:43,915 --> 00:16:45,526
hence the 'blockbuster' name,

367
00:16:45,569 --> 00:16:47,441
was something that suddenly
became very exciting to people.

368
00:16:47,484 --> 00:16:50,705
And I think he was obviously
a very well-known property,

369
00:16:50,748 --> 00:16:53,316
a very famous property,
probably the most famous.

370
00:16:53,360 --> 00:16:55,536
And, of course,
it is a family film,

371
00:16:55,579 --> 00:16:57,190
but it isn't a
kid's film.

372
00:16:57,233 --> 00:16:59,148
Certainly
the first and second

373
00:16:59,192 --> 00:17:00,584
Superman movies
of the late 70s

374
00:17:00,628 --> 00:17:02,543
with Christopher Reeve,
directed by Richard Donner

375
00:17:02,586 --> 00:17:04,458
and then Richard Lester.

376
00:17:04,501 --> 00:17:07,417
They to me are
mythic American storytelling.

377
00:17:07,461 --> 00:17:09,158
They roll out his origin.

378
00:17:09,202 --> 00:17:12,640
Superman 2
is a fantastic Greek story

379
00:17:12,683 --> 00:17:15,034
where he has to give up
his powers to be happy

380
00:17:15,077 --> 00:17:17,253
or is he going to be unhappy
and save the world?

381
00:17:17,297 --> 00:17:18,950
This is mythic stuff.

382
00:17:18,994 --> 00:17:20,735
With an all-star cast

383
00:17:20,778 --> 00:17:24,130
and the largest budget ever
spent on a feature film,

384
00:17:24,173 --> 00:17:28,090
Superman andSuperman II
were shot back to back

385
00:17:28,134 --> 00:17:30,092
and released
to enormous commercial

386
00:17:30,136 --> 00:17:32,138
and critical success.

387
00:17:32,181 --> 00:17:35,271
And despite the limitations
of visual effects at the time,

388
00:17:35,315 --> 00:17:37,491
as the original film's poster
exclaimed,

389
00:17:37,534 --> 00:17:40,798
it made audiences believe
that a man could fly.

390
00:17:40,842 --> 00:17:43,888
The challenge
to any comic book adaptation

391
00:17:43,932 --> 00:17:45,455
is making it realistic.

392
00:17:45,499 --> 00:17:48,110
For any sci-fi film,
for any genre film

393
00:17:48,154 --> 00:17:50,199
that involves fantasy
or these elements,

394
00:17:50,243 --> 00:17:52,027
it's the willing suspension
of disbelief.

395
00:17:52,071 --> 00:17:55,726
If we can't believe that
Christopher Reeve was flying

396
00:17:55,770 --> 00:17:57,467
in the first Supermanfilm,

397
00:17:57,511 --> 00:17:59,469
if we can't believe that these
characters have these powers.

398
00:17:59,513 --> 00:18:02,081
But I think more importantly,
if we can't believe

399
00:18:02,124 --> 00:18:04,648
that the actor
playing it believes

400
00:18:04,692 --> 00:18:07,390
that they are shooting optic
beams out of their eyes

401
00:18:07,434 --> 00:18:09,175
or reading
the thoughts of others,

402
00:18:09,218 --> 00:18:11,220
or teleporting
across vast distances

403
00:18:11,264 --> 00:18:13,744
it's not going to sell
to the audience.

404
00:18:13,788 --> 00:18:16,138
But Superman
didn't start a trend

405
00:18:16,182 --> 00:18:17,792
and in its wake

406
00:18:17,835 --> 00:18:20,795
only a handful of superhero
adaptations followed.

407
00:18:20,838 --> 00:18:24,190
In the comics world, however,
things were changing.

408
00:18:24,233 --> 00:18:26,235
This was nowhere
more apparent

409
00:18:26,279 --> 00:18:27,758
than in the pages
of "Batman",

410
00:18:27,802 --> 00:18:30,979
a hero who had undergone
a radical rethink

411
00:18:31,022 --> 00:18:34,765
since the camp caricature
of the 60s TV show...

412
00:18:34,809 --> 00:18:36,811
At first,
that had a big impact

413
00:18:36,854 --> 00:18:39,118
on comic book sales of Batman.
They really spiked.

414
00:18:39,161 --> 00:18:41,859
But they started to follow
the TV show a little bit.

415
00:18:41,903 --> 00:18:43,992
Then when the TV crashed

416
00:18:44,035 --> 00:18:46,777
and the ratings plummeted,
and then it was canceled,

417
00:18:46,821 --> 00:18:49,258
the Batman comic books
were left in this

418
00:18:49,302 --> 00:18:50,955
'what do we do now?'

419
00:18:50,999 --> 00:18:53,480
Fortunately, I think
the writer Denny O' Neil

420
00:18:53,523 --> 00:18:56,178
and Neal Adams took
a very different approach.

421
00:18:56,222 --> 00:18:59,181
They took Batman out of
the TV show completely.

422
00:18:59,225 --> 00:19:01,227
They
went back to the Batman

423
00:19:01,270 --> 00:19:03,794
that appeared
in 1939, 1940.

424
00:19:03,838 --> 00:19:05,492
And then got kind of
whitewashed out.

425
00:19:05,535 --> 00:19:08,495
It was a dark avenger
who only existed at night.

426
00:19:08,538 --> 00:19:10,410
He represented vengeance.

427
00:19:10,453 --> 00:19:12,107
He represented
retribution.

428
00:19:12,151 --> 00:19:14,109
He led a very tough life.

429
00:19:14,153 --> 00:19:16,459
And you had these
solo adventures of Batman

430
00:19:16,503 --> 00:19:18,548
that Frank Miller picked up on

431
00:19:18,592 --> 00:19:22,161
in the early 1980s and turned
into the Dark Knightsaga.

432
00:19:22,204 --> 00:19:24,554
And it was this
darker vision of Batman

433
00:19:24,598 --> 00:19:26,077
that would draw
superheroes

434
00:19:26,121 --> 00:19:29,298
into a far grittier world
in the 1980s.

435
00:19:29,342 --> 00:19:30,908
With the release

436
00:19:30,952 --> 00:19:32,997
of Frank Miller's
seminal graphic novel

437
00:19:33,041 --> 00:19:36,218
Dark Knight Returns and
Allan Moore'sKilling Joke,

438
00:19:36,262 --> 00:19:39,221
the comic book successfully
transcended its roots

439
00:19:39,265 --> 00:19:42,398
as children's entertainment,
and became more adult,

440
00:19:42,442 --> 00:19:45,096
more bleak
and often more violent.

441
00:19:45,140 --> 00:19:47,447
In February 1989,

442
00:19:47,490 --> 00:19:49,449
just as trailers
began circulating

443
00:19:49,492 --> 00:19:51,320
for the forthcoming
feature film,

444
00:19:51,364 --> 00:19:53,061
headlines across America

445
00:19:53,104 --> 00:19:55,846
were focused
on the Batman comic itself,

446
00:19:55,890 --> 00:19:57,500
and a four-issue story

447
00:19:57,544 --> 00:20:00,242
that ended
with the murder of Robin.

448
00:20:00,286 --> 00:20:01,852
You're on this path

449
00:20:01,896 --> 00:20:04,246
where Batman is kind of
a bellwether character.

450
00:20:04,290 --> 00:20:09,120
All comics become
as mature as Batman,

451
00:20:09,164 --> 00:20:11,514
or they become
as dark as Batman.

452
00:20:11,558 --> 00:20:13,168
Batmankind of
leads the way.

453
00:20:13,212 --> 00:20:15,692
Obviously when Tim Burton
goes to do the character,

454
00:20:15,736 --> 00:20:17,694
and the screenwriter
is assigned

455
00:20:17,738 --> 00:20:19,174
and everything else,

456
00:20:19,218 --> 00:20:21,350
they're looking
at the current comics

457
00:20:21,394 --> 00:20:23,222
so the character
was turning dark.

458
00:20:23,265 --> 00:20:25,441
And then you add
Tim Burton to the mix

459
00:20:25,485 --> 00:20:27,530
and you get
what Tim Burton brings

460
00:20:27,574 --> 00:20:30,229
and that's how you end up
with that movie.

461
00:20:30,272 --> 00:20:33,101
As much as
the Batman craze of 1989

462
00:20:33,144 --> 00:20:34,972
was driven by publicity,

463
00:20:35,016 --> 00:20:36,496
the film itself
was marketed

464
00:20:36,539 --> 00:20:39,455
as the brainchild
of director Tim Burton,

465
00:20:39,499 --> 00:20:41,762
and this was key
to its appeal.

466
00:20:41,805 --> 00:20:45,287
A gifted filmmaker
with a distinctive vision,

467
00:20:45,331 --> 00:20:47,420
he signaled a
new Hollywood

468
00:20:47,463 --> 00:20:49,770
that was young,
alternative and modern.

469
00:20:58,996 --> 00:21:01,999
Ah!

470
00:21:02,043 --> 00:21:04,088
Tim Burton's
Batman was personal.

471
00:21:05,264 --> 00:21:07,222
He's got a great look.

472
00:21:07,266 --> 00:21:09,659
He's got
a great sense of things.

473
00:21:09,703 --> 00:21:12,009
It was inviting
a creative talent

474
00:21:12,053 --> 00:21:14,490
into the field
of doing comic books.

475
00:21:14,534 --> 00:21:18,320
He couldn't have done it
in any other way if he tried.

476
00:21:18,364 --> 00:21:21,628
Don't kill me.
Don't kill me, man.

477
00:21:21,671 --> 00:21:23,717
Don't kill me.
Don't kill me, man!

478
00:21:23,760 --> 00:21:26,763
I'm not going to kill you.
I want you to do me a favor.

479
00:21:26,807 --> 00:21:28,722
I want you to tell
all your friends about me.

480
00:21:28,765 --> 00:21:30,767
Who are you?

481
00:21:31,594 --> 00:21:33,161
I'm Batman.

482
00:21:40,211 --> 00:21:41,735
What Tim
Burton did in his film was

483
00:21:41,778 --> 00:21:45,869
he kept it centered
in the Tim Burton universe.

484
00:21:45,913 --> 00:21:47,784
If you look at
his long list of films

485
00:21:47,828 --> 00:21:49,351
from
A Nightmare Before Christmas

486
00:21:49,395 --> 00:21:52,136
to Beetle juice
to Edward Scissor hands

487
00:21:52,180 --> 00:21:54,356
there's a consistency
across the board.

488
00:21:54,400 --> 00:21:56,663
It has a Tim Burton DNA.

489
00:21:56,706 --> 00:22:00,231
He was able to bring in
the elements of Batman

490
00:22:00,275 --> 00:22:01,929
that people really understood
as Batman.

491
00:22:01,972 --> 00:22:03,583
Gotham was dark.

492
00:22:03,626 --> 00:22:06,063
It had an element of danger
that was omnipresent

493
00:22:06,107 --> 00:22:10,938
which someone like Batman
to wage a war on crime.

494
00:22:10,981 --> 00:22:13,462
He got
all the right things right

495
00:22:13,506 --> 00:22:16,639
while still putting
the Tim Burton imprint on it.

496
00:22:16,683 --> 00:22:19,076
Yet the film was not
without controversy.

497
00:22:19,120 --> 00:22:21,209
When it had
initially been announced,

498
00:22:21,252 --> 00:22:23,472
comic books fans were
outraged over the casting

499
00:22:23,516 --> 00:22:25,996
of Michael Keaton
in the lead role,

500
00:22:26,040 --> 00:22:29,130
an actor more associated
with comedy than drama.

501
00:22:29,173 --> 00:22:32,176
Yet he proved
an inspired choice.

502
00:22:32,220 --> 00:22:33,961
Michael Keaton
is the last person

503
00:22:34,004 --> 00:22:37,094
you would expect
to see as Batman,

504
00:22:37,138 --> 00:22:40,576
looking at any of the actors
who played it over the years,

505
00:22:40,620 --> 00:22:42,970
and yet he was perfect.

506
00:22:43,971 --> 00:22:46,452
Excuse me. Excuse me!

507
00:22:46,495 --> 00:22:48,454
Excuse me...

508
00:22:48,497 --> 00:22:49,846
Could you tell me
which of these guys

509
00:22:49,890 --> 00:22:52,153
is Bruce Wayne?

510
00:22:52,196 --> 00:22:54,242
Well, I'm not sure.

511
00:22:54,285 --> 00:22:56,244
Thanks anyway.

512
00:22:56,287 --> 00:22:58,855
- Yeah.
- Pretty.

513
00:22:58,899 --> 00:23:01,858
Huh? Oh, certainly.
Yeah.

514
00:23:01,902 --> 00:23:03,251
Michael Keaton was

515
00:23:03,294 --> 00:23:04,600
exceptional casting.

516
00:23:04,644 --> 00:23:06,297
Burton always said that

517
00:23:06,341 --> 00:23:09,083
he wanted
an unexceptional Bruce Wayne

518
00:23:09,126 --> 00:23:11,520
who would make
an extraordinary Batman.

519
00:23:11,564 --> 00:23:14,741
And I think what we saw
because of Batman

520
00:23:14,784 --> 00:23:17,874
was the idea that
you didn't necessarily need

521
00:23:17,918 --> 00:23:19,746
an action movie star

522
00:23:19,789 --> 00:23:21,530
to make an action movie.

523
00:23:21,574 --> 00:23:23,140
You cast the
human alter-ego,

524
00:23:23,184 --> 00:23:25,708
not the superhero.

525
00:23:25,752 --> 00:23:27,231
With Jack Nicholson's

526
00:23:27,275 --> 00:23:29,582
scene-stealing performance
as the Joker,

527
00:23:29,625 --> 00:23:32,106
Kim Basinger becoming
a household name

528
00:23:32,149 --> 00:23:33,716
as love interest
Vicki Vale

529
00:23:33,760 --> 00:23:35,065
and a soundtrack album

530
00:23:35,109 --> 00:23:37,764
featuring
all new material by Prince,

531
00:23:37,807 --> 00:23:40,767
Batman not only revitalized
superhero movies,

532
00:23:40,810 --> 00:23:42,638
but rewrote the rule book

533
00:23:42,682 --> 00:23:46,076
on how to successfully launch
a blockbuster franchise.

534
00:23:46,120 --> 00:23:47,513
It was the first

535
00:23:47,556 --> 00:23:51,473
pre-ordained blockbuster
of the modern age.

536
00:23:51,517 --> 00:23:52,953
It was revolutionary.

537
00:23:52,996 --> 00:23:55,259
It broke the opening
weekend record by a lot.

538
00:23:55,303 --> 00:23:57,436
It made $100 million
in ten days

539
00:23:57,479 --> 00:23:59,002
It showed Hollywood that

540
00:23:59,046 --> 00:24:02,136
there was an entire world
of properties

541
00:24:02,179 --> 00:24:05,269
that weren't necessarily
originated as film

542
00:24:05,313 --> 00:24:08,490
that can be made
into movies.

543
00:24:08,534 --> 00:24:10,013
The film industry's focus

544
00:24:10,057 --> 00:24:12,625
was not primarily
on comic books, however,

545
00:24:12,668 --> 00:24:14,496
andBatman was seen
as a revival

546
00:24:14,540 --> 00:24:17,238
of both a once
successful TV series

547
00:24:17,281 --> 00:24:19,588
and of a 40s
pulp fiction hero.

548
00:24:19,632 --> 00:24:21,634
Over the coming years,

549
00:24:21,677 --> 00:24:23,331
this would see
big screen outings

550
00:24:23,374 --> 00:24:25,464
for Dick Tracy,
The Rocketeer

551
00:24:25,507 --> 00:24:27,857
and other icons
of the movie serials

552
00:24:27,901 --> 00:24:31,339
as well as adaptations
of classic television shows.

553
00:24:31,382 --> 00:24:33,515
Studios were
also now aware

554
00:24:33,559 --> 00:24:36,126
of the box office
potential of superheroes,

555
00:24:36,170 --> 00:24:38,085
and looked to Marvel
for characters

556
00:24:38,128 --> 00:24:40,522
that could translate
to the big screen.

557
00:24:40,566 --> 00:24:42,219
But the three films
that emerged

558
00:24:42,263 --> 00:24:44,613
in Batman's wake -
The Punisher,

559
00:24:44,657 --> 00:24:46,876
Captain America
and The Fantastic Four-

560
00:24:46,920 --> 00:24:49,444
were ultra low-budget
disappointments

561
00:24:49,488 --> 00:24:52,969
that most audiences
didn't get a chance to see.

562
00:24:53,013 --> 00:24:54,884
Marvel comics
are sitting right there,

563
00:24:54,928 --> 00:24:57,017
the best-selling comic book
in America at that time.

564
00:24:57,060 --> 00:25:00,020
And certainly there must be
movies to be made.

565
00:25:00,063 --> 00:25:01,456
Well, there were,
there would be.

566
00:25:01,500 --> 00:25:03,066
But the first ones that came out

567
00:25:03,110 --> 00:25:06,156
weren't the ones that
anybody wanted to see

568
00:25:06,200 --> 00:25:07,593
and they weren't
the ones that

569
00:25:07,636 --> 00:25:08,855
people were
particularly proud of.

570
00:25:22,085 --> 00:25:24,610
Everything
DC Warner Brothers did right

571
00:25:24,653 --> 00:25:26,699
Marvel did wrong.

572
00:25:26,742 --> 00:25:30,616
Marvel hadn't a clue
as to how to merchandise

573
00:25:30,659 --> 00:25:33,706
its amazingly
popular franchises.

574
00:25:33,749 --> 00:25:34,533
Get in!

575
00:25:35,272 --> 00:25:36,796
Come on, come on!

576
00:25:36,839 --> 00:25:39,450
And they sold off
a lot of their characters

577
00:25:39,494 --> 00:25:41,757
to make quick money
into movies

578
00:25:41,801 --> 00:25:45,848
that were so ghastly that
many of them weren't released.

579
00:25:45,892 --> 00:25:47,676
While Marvel
characters were failing

580
00:25:47,720 --> 00:25:49,504
to successfully
make the transition

581
00:25:49,548 --> 00:25:51,114
to the big screen,

582
00:25:51,158 --> 00:25:53,508
in the comics world
they were still thriving,

583
00:25:53,552 --> 00:25:56,685
and the industry itself was
going through a boom-time.

584
00:25:56,729 --> 00:25:58,774
Thanks to the growing
maturity of the medium,

585
00:25:58,818 --> 00:26:01,429
and to a significant shift
in youth culture,

586
00:26:01,472 --> 00:26:04,519
comics were suddenly selling
in record numbers,

587
00:26:04,563 --> 00:26:05,999
with new publishers

588
00:26:06,042 --> 00:26:08,610
and new titles
constantly being launched.

589
00:26:08,654 --> 00:26:10,264
All these people

590
00:26:10,307 --> 00:26:13,267
who had been in subcultures
in the 1970s and 80s,

591
00:26:13,310 --> 00:26:15,225
the Star Trek fans,

592
00:26:15,269 --> 00:26:17,837
the punk fans, the goths,

593
00:26:17,880 --> 00:26:19,403
the comic book fans,

594
00:26:19,447 --> 00:26:22,058
had all existed
in their own little cells

595
00:26:22,102 --> 00:26:24,191
and they kind of knew
about each other

596
00:26:24,234 --> 00:26:26,062
but were afraid
of the outside world

597
00:26:26,106 --> 00:26:28,151
and the outside world
didn't know much about them.

598
00:26:28,195 --> 00:26:30,197
Then there was this explosion

599
00:26:30,240 --> 00:26:32,895
into the mainstream
in the 1990s.

600
00:26:32,939 --> 00:26:34,854
Certainly you could
see it in music.

601
00:26:34,897 --> 00:26:37,552
Indie rock became
alternative rock

602
00:26:37,596 --> 00:26:39,946
as punk became grunge.

603
00:26:39,989 --> 00:26:41,643
It was just
this huge explosion.

604
00:26:41,687 --> 00:26:43,732
Now that became popular.

605
00:26:43,776 --> 00:26:46,648
Alternative became
the thing to be.

606
00:26:46,692 --> 00:26:50,260
I think that helped comic books
and comic book fans

607
00:26:50,304 --> 00:26:53,786
grow out of the dingy
comic book stores

608
00:26:53,829 --> 00:26:55,352
into a wider mainstream as well.

609
00:26:59,269 --> 00:27:02,490
As this subculture
pushed into the mainstream,

610
00:27:02,533 --> 00:27:06,146
by the summer of 1992
Michael Keaton's Dark Knight

611
00:27:06,189 --> 00:27:09,976
came to the fore once
again inBatman Returns.

612
00:27:10,019 --> 00:27:12,543
And having demonstrated
his box office value

613
00:27:12,587 --> 00:27:14,067
with the original,

614
00:27:14,110 --> 00:27:16,112
this time director
Tim Burton's imagination

615
00:27:16,156 --> 00:27:17,636
was given free reign

616
00:27:17,679 --> 00:27:21,030
in a far more eccentric take
on the DC character.

617
00:27:21,074 --> 00:27:23,163
Pitting Batman
against the twin villainy

618
00:27:23,206 --> 00:27:24,817
of Danny DeVito's Penguin

619
00:27:24,860 --> 00:27:26,645
and Michelle Pfeiffer's
Catwoman,

620
00:27:26,688 --> 00:27:30,605
it proved
a far more divisive release.

621
00:27:30,649 --> 00:27:33,390
Batman Returns
was a case of

622
00:27:33,434 --> 00:27:37,612
Tim Burton making
a gothic fairytale

623
00:27:37,656 --> 00:27:39,701
in the world of Batman.

624
00:27:39,745 --> 00:27:42,965
And something that has
always blown my mind

625
00:27:43,009 --> 00:27:45,620
even when I first saw the
film and I was 12 years old

626
00:27:45,664 --> 00:27:47,317
is I'm thinking
to myself,

627
00:27:47,361 --> 00:27:51,713
if this film wasn't based
on characters we all knew

628
00:27:51,757 --> 00:27:55,108
it would be hailed as
one of the great arthouse

629
00:27:55,151 --> 00:27:57,850
whacked out
fantasy movies of our day.

630
00:27:57,893 --> 00:27:59,373
Eat your heart out,
Terry Gilliam.

631
00:28:09,992 --> 00:28:12,125
When I went to see
it, I absolutely loved it.

632
00:28:12,168 --> 00:28:14,997
First of all, the aesthetic was
like nothing I'd seen before.

633
00:28:15,041 --> 00:28:17,521
Certainly nothing
in any kind of comic book world.

634
00:28:17,565 --> 00:28:19,610
That gothic nature to it.

635
00:28:19,654 --> 00:28:21,308
It was serious and dark,

636
00:28:21,351 --> 00:28:23,353
but it wasn't bleak.
It was still fun.

637
00:28:23,397 --> 00:28:26,574
And for me, as a young
teen at this point

638
00:28:26,617 --> 00:28:29,838
and had never really felt
as a female that

639
00:28:29,882 --> 00:28:32,623
superheroes or comics
were really for me

640
00:28:32,667 --> 00:28:34,756
because in the era I grew up
that wasn't something

641
00:28:34,800 --> 00:28:36,453
that a lot of
young women did.

642
00:28:36,497 --> 00:28:40,588
So I didn't have
a female superhero to idolize,

643
00:28:40,631 --> 00:28:43,722
but what I did have
is this amazingly cool woman

644
00:28:43,765 --> 00:28:45,767
who falls out of the window
and gets licked by cats

645
00:28:45,811 --> 00:28:48,814
and turns into
this incredibly sexy, sassy,

646
00:28:48,857 --> 00:28:51,468
powerful, exciting
anti-hero.

647
00:28:51,512 --> 00:28:53,732
I've always been
a huge fan of Catwoman.

648
00:28:53,775 --> 00:28:58,432
Always. And to actually see her,
not just on the big screen,

649
00:28:58,475 --> 00:28:59,825
not just as a main character,

650
00:28:59,868 --> 00:29:02,784
but actually even addressing
the sexism,

651
00:29:02,828 --> 00:29:04,220
that she deals with
in the office,

652
00:29:04,264 --> 00:29:05,613
something that seems so...

653
00:29:05,656 --> 00:29:07,267
Well, we haven't
quite fixed that.

654
00:29:07,310 --> 00:29:09,008
But seeing her
up there was huge

655
00:29:09,051 --> 00:29:10,923
and she was powerful.

656
00:29:10,966 --> 00:29:13,534
She was sexy,
which, by the way, is fine.

657
00:29:13,577 --> 00:29:15,231
I loved that costume.

658
00:29:15,275 --> 00:29:17,930
I think it was incredible for
a woman had to be sewn into it.

659
00:29:17,973 --> 00:29:20,454
And she absolutely held
her own against Batman.

660
00:29:20,497 --> 00:29:21,803
I think it was
incredible.

661
00:29:29,376 --> 00:29:30,420
Miaow.

662
00:29:33,772 --> 00:29:35,817
I think Batman
Returns is a decent film

663
00:29:35,861 --> 00:29:38,515
but it started kind of a
trend in Batman films.

664
00:29:38,559 --> 00:29:42,998
where the villains became
more important than the hero.

665
00:29:43,042 --> 00:29:45,479
Also two villains
for the price of one.

666
00:29:45,522 --> 00:29:48,308
That film for me
feels less focused

667
00:29:48,351 --> 00:29:49,831
as a Batman film

668
00:29:49,875 --> 00:29:52,138
as it is an
exploration of

669
00:29:52,181 --> 00:29:54,096
these very strange characters

670
00:29:54,140 --> 00:29:56,316
as seen through
Tim Burton's eyes.

671
00:29:56,359 --> 00:29:58,057
And these
strange characters

672
00:29:58,100 --> 00:30:00,015
and the sinister tone
of the film

673
00:30:00,059 --> 00:30:03,018
that they inhabited
limited its wider appeal.

674
00:30:03,062 --> 00:30:04,759
I was on Batman books

675
00:30:04,803 --> 00:30:06,369
at the time
Batman Returns came out.

676
00:30:06,413 --> 00:30:08,458
And our sales went down,

677
00:30:08,502 --> 00:30:11,766
because parents
were so upset at the movie.

678
00:30:11,810 --> 00:30:14,856
They expected to take the kids
to see a Batman movie

679
00:30:14,900 --> 00:30:16,249
you could take kids to see.

680
00:30:16,292 --> 00:30:18,817
The Penguin material
was so frightening

681
00:30:18,860 --> 00:30:21,167
and Catwoman too
was so disturbing.

682
00:30:21,210 --> 00:30:23,909
that parents were outraged.

683
00:30:23,952 --> 00:30:26,476
Despite a healthy
opening box office,

684
00:30:26,520 --> 00:30:28,478
the film suffered
from a backlash,

685
00:30:28,522 --> 00:30:30,567
forcing fast-food
giant McDonalds

686
00:30:30,611 --> 00:30:33,005
to pull a lucrative
merchandizing deal.

687
00:30:33,048 --> 00:30:36,791
Clearly never intended
as a family-friendly movie,

688
00:30:36,835 --> 00:30:39,359
Batman Returns
proved too mature

689
00:30:39,402 --> 00:30:42,057
for the summer
blockbuster market.

690
00:30:42,101 --> 00:30:44,538
But this didn't deter
smaller studios

691
00:30:44,581 --> 00:30:47,062
from investing
in comic book adaptations,

692
00:30:47,106 --> 00:30:49,021
and the boom
in that industry meant

693
00:30:49,064 --> 00:30:53,503
that there were now far more
characters to choose from.

694
00:30:53,547 --> 00:30:57,507
Independent publishers like
Caliber, Dark Horse and Image

695
00:30:57,551 --> 00:30:59,770
had created a wealth
of new heroes,

696
00:30:59,814 --> 00:31:01,120
and while Marvel
was struggling

697
00:31:01,163 --> 00:31:03,426
to get its characters
on to the screen,

698
00:31:03,470 --> 00:31:06,821
films likeThe Mask,
Barb Wire andThe Crow

699
00:31:06,865 --> 00:31:10,259
showcased these
more modern creations.

700
00:31:10,303 --> 00:31:11,957
The Crow was the first one

701
00:31:12,000 --> 00:31:14,350
where you took a character
the public did not know,

702
00:31:14,394 --> 00:31:16,048
was not invested
in it at all.

703
00:31:16,091 --> 00:31:18,746
You had a relatively
no name cast,

704
00:31:18,789 --> 00:31:20,313
you had a low budget,

705
00:31:20,356 --> 00:31:22,924
and it was this beautiful
kick ass movie

706
00:31:22,968 --> 00:31:24,883
and the soundtrack was amazing.

707
00:31:24,926 --> 00:31:26,667
The production design
was amazing,

708
00:31:26,710 --> 00:31:31,063
and it was totally its own
singular vision of something

709
00:31:31,106 --> 00:31:34,153
that was totally faithful
to the book as well.

710
00:31:34,196 --> 00:31:37,199
For those people to make
that kind of investment

711
00:31:37,243 --> 00:31:39,723
in a movie on a book
that no one knew about

712
00:31:39,767 --> 00:31:40,986
I thought was amazing.

713
00:31:59,918 --> 00:32:01,571
I think because
those characters were new.

714
00:32:01,615 --> 00:32:03,486
I think because
The Crow was new.

715
00:32:03,530 --> 00:32:07,186
The rights were much cheaper
to obtain than Hollywood.

716
00:32:07,229 --> 00:32:08,839
Timecopwas another film

717
00:32:08,883 --> 00:32:11,755
where you could get an actor
like Jean-Claude Van Damme.

718
00:32:11,799 --> 00:32:15,194
who may not be the most fit
person to play Timecop

719
00:32:15,237 --> 00:32:16,717
but he worked
in the film.

720
00:32:16,760 --> 00:32:18,371
If you look at
all those characters,

721
00:32:18,414 --> 00:32:21,026
people who went to the cinema
knew the actor

722
00:32:21,069 --> 00:32:22,592
more than they did
the character.

723
00:32:22,636 --> 00:32:24,377
So it was very easy
for the actor

724
00:32:24,420 --> 00:32:27,641
to impose his persona
or her persona

725
00:32:27,684 --> 00:32:29,295
over the character themselves,

726
00:32:29,338 --> 00:32:31,340
which helped to introduce
the character to the audience.

727
00:32:33,603 --> 00:32:36,737
Los Angeles, 1995.

728
00:32:36,780 --> 00:32:40,088
It has taken three years for
Warner Brothers to regroup,

729
00:32:40,132 --> 00:32:41,916
rethink and
reimagineBatman.

730
00:32:43,048 --> 00:32:44,832
Reeling from the outrage

731
00:32:44,875 --> 00:32:47,487
at Tim Burton's dark and
singular previous outing,

732
00:32:47,530 --> 00:32:50,577
this time they aim squarely
at the family market.

733
00:32:50,620 --> 00:32:53,884
Once again, the cast
is an impressive ensemble,

734
00:32:53,928 --> 00:32:55,974
with Val Kilmer replacing
Michael Keaton

735
00:32:56,017 --> 00:32:57,366
in the lead role,

736
00:32:57,410 --> 00:33:00,500
Oscar-Winner Tommy Lee Jones
as Two-Face

737
00:33:00,543 --> 00:33:02,502
and Hollywood's
top comic actor,

738
00:33:02,545 --> 00:33:04,330
Jim Carrey,
as The Riddler,

739
00:33:04,373 --> 00:33:08,290
alongside Nicole Kidman and
Chris O'Donnell as Robin.

740
00:33:08,334 --> 00:33:11,902
Behind the camera, ex-costume
designer Joel Schumacher

741
00:33:11,946 --> 00:33:14,905
aimed to bring a different
vision to the series.

742
00:33:14,949 --> 00:33:17,734
Yet the resultant film,
Batman Forever,

743
00:33:17,778 --> 00:33:19,388
although
a commercial success,

744
00:33:19,432 --> 00:33:22,174
would prove
a creative dead end.

745
00:33:22,217 --> 00:33:24,480
Once Tim
Burton steps back,

746
00:33:24,524 --> 00:33:26,917
what you're left with is,

747
00:33:26,961 --> 00:33:28,745
do we build on
what Tim has done

748
00:33:28,789 --> 00:33:31,052
or do we go in a new direction?

749
00:33:31,096 --> 00:33:34,490
There's still the influence
and power of the memory

750
00:33:34,534 --> 00:33:36,884
of theBatman
television show.

751
00:33:36,927 --> 00:33:40,192
So those are the three
major directions you can go

752
00:33:40,235 --> 00:33:42,237
with the franchise.

753
00:33:42,281 --> 00:33:43,673
What no one considered
was doing

754
00:33:43,717 --> 00:33:45,414
what the comic books
were doing,

755
00:33:45,458 --> 00:33:48,243
because Hollywood's attitude
towards comic books was,

756
00:33:48,287 --> 00:33:50,158
OK, what's wrong
with this thing?

757
00:33:50,202 --> 00:33:51,942
How can we fix it
and make it a movie?

758
00:33:51,986 --> 00:33:53,988
Every time they pick up
a comic book

759
00:33:54,032 --> 00:33:57,122
their first thought is
what are we going to get rid of?

760
00:33:57,165 --> 00:33:59,863
With all these
different forces at work

761
00:33:59,907 --> 00:34:02,736
what happened next was
Batman Forever.

762
00:34:02,779 --> 00:34:04,781
It was loud,
it was brash.

763
00:34:04,825 --> 00:34:06,087
The imperatives
were commercial

764
00:34:06,131 --> 00:34:09,482
and there were
a lot of one liners.

765
00:34:09,525 --> 00:34:11,266
You called me here for this?

766
00:34:11,310 --> 00:34:14,052
The Bat signal is not a beeper.

767
00:34:14,095 --> 00:34:17,098
While I wish I could say
my interest in you was...

768
00:34:17,142 --> 00:34:19,448
...purely professional.

769
00:34:19,492 --> 00:34:22,060
Are you trying to get
under my cape, Doctor?

770
00:34:22,103 --> 00:34:25,193
A girl can't live
by psychosis alone.

771
00:34:25,237 --> 00:34:27,674
It's the car, right?
Chicks love the car.

772
00:34:27,717 --> 00:34:29,328
By the time
it got toBatman Forever,

773
00:34:29,371 --> 00:34:32,113
we were still willing to go
to see a Batman film.

774
00:34:32,157 --> 00:34:35,334
That's when the Batman films
started to slide off the rails.

775
00:34:35,377 --> 00:34:37,031
Again we had two villains.

776
00:34:37,075 --> 00:34:38,554
We had another actor
in the Bat suit

777
00:34:38,598 --> 00:34:40,817
who weren't
unwilling to accept.

778
00:34:40,861 --> 00:34:43,255
Val Kilmer seemed to
sleepwalk through the role.

779
00:34:43,298 --> 00:34:45,474
But he was upstaged
by the villains.

780
00:34:45,518 --> 00:34:49,043
Tommy Lee Jones' very Joker
like turn as Two-Face.

781
00:34:49,087 --> 00:34:50,610
Let's start this party
with a bang.

782
00:34:53,656 --> 00:34:55,702
It was a character
who's not like the Joker.

783
00:34:55,745 --> 00:34:58,270
And Jim Carrey being Jim Carrey.

784
00:35:00,576 --> 00:35:02,839
I hope you made extra.

785
00:35:02,883 --> 00:35:04,667
Who the hell are you?

786
00:35:05,668 --> 00:35:07,409
Just a friend.

787
00:35:07,453 --> 00:35:09,063
But you can call me...

788
00:35:09,977 --> 00:35:12,066
...The Riddler.

789
00:35:14,286 --> 00:35:16,462
It seems Schumacher
wanted to impose

790
00:35:16,505 --> 00:35:18,159
his own stylistic vision,

791
00:35:18,203 --> 00:35:20,335
which I think is
very much influenced

792
00:35:20,379 --> 00:35:22,163
by the 1960s version.

793
00:35:22,207 --> 00:35:25,340
Again, we went back
to the skewed camera angles.

794
00:35:25,384 --> 00:35:28,169
We got a neon approach,

795
00:35:28,213 --> 00:35:31,738
rather than the day-glo colors
of the Batman TV series.

796
00:35:31,781 --> 00:35:35,176
Bat nipples.
Need I go further?

797
00:35:35,220 --> 00:35:36,482
Although more suitable

798
00:35:36,525 --> 00:35:38,048
as family entertainment,

799
00:35:38,092 --> 00:35:40,181
with McDonalds
firmly back on board

800
00:35:40,225 --> 00:35:42,052
for the merchandizing
tie-in,

801
00:35:42,096 --> 00:35:45,447
this was Batman back in
the territory of camp parody

802
00:35:45,491 --> 00:35:47,841
and comics fans
and reviewers alike

803
00:35:47,884 --> 00:35:50,017
voiced their
disappointment.

804
00:35:50,060 --> 00:35:53,194
When, in 1998,
Schumacher returned

805
00:35:53,238 --> 00:35:54,848
with yet another Batman,

806
00:35:54,891 --> 00:35:56,937
George Clooney
for the follow-up,

807
00:35:56,980 --> 00:35:59,809
studio hopes were high
for another smash hit.

808
00:35:59,853 --> 00:36:01,637
Yet this star-studded
spectacle

809
00:36:01,681 --> 00:36:03,335
would become infamous,

810
00:36:03,378 --> 00:36:07,643
regularly voted as one of
the worst films ever made.

811
00:36:07,687 --> 00:36:09,254
I don't want to be mean

812
00:36:09,297 --> 00:36:12,213
but I feel like Schumacher
single-handedly destroyed

813
00:36:12,257 --> 00:36:13,954
the Batman movie
franchise.

814
00:36:13,997 --> 00:36:17,262
In his defense, I don't feel
like it was entirely his fault.

815
00:36:17,305 --> 00:36:22,223
I feel like Warner Brothers'
lack of understanding

816
00:36:22,267 --> 00:36:24,617
of the story and the characters

817
00:36:24,660 --> 00:36:27,794
is why he got away
with that interpretation.

818
00:36:29,404 --> 00:36:32,190
But yeah, it's not good.

819
00:36:37,238 --> 00:36:39,197
Hi Freeze. I'm Batman.

820
00:37:00,087 --> 00:37:02,959
You're not sending me
to the cooler.

821
00:37:03,003 --> 00:37:06,267
Batman and
Robin was the death knell

822
00:37:06,311 --> 00:37:07,834
that would make
people realize

823
00:37:07,877 --> 00:37:11,490
you could not treat these
movies like a t-shirt shop

824
00:37:11,533 --> 00:37:14,971
and expect people
to come in every summer.

825
00:37:15,015 --> 00:37:17,409
I've heard Kevin Feige at Marvel
refer to Batman and Robin

826
00:37:17,452 --> 00:37:19,933
as the most important
comic book move ever made

827
00:37:19,976 --> 00:37:22,327
because it was
so egregiously bad

828
00:37:22,370 --> 00:37:25,982
that it signaled that
anything was better than this.

829
00:37:26,026 --> 00:37:28,071
So someone came up
with the desperate idea

830
00:37:28,115 --> 00:37:30,770
of actually paying attention
to the source material

831
00:37:30,813 --> 00:37:33,990
because now there was
nothing else to be tried anyway

832
00:37:34,034 --> 00:37:36,384
so we might as well try
to do it the way they did it.

833
00:37:36,428 --> 00:37:37,777
It
would be years

834
00:37:37,820 --> 00:37:40,170
before this new approach
came to fruition.

835
00:37:40,214 --> 00:37:41,737
In the meantime,

836
00:37:41,781 --> 00:37:44,914
just as the Batman franchise
crashed and burned,

837
00:37:44,958 --> 00:37:48,178
a slump in comic book sales
saw the entire industry

838
00:37:48,222 --> 00:37:51,921
go from boom to bust
almost overnight.

839
00:37:51,965 --> 00:37:54,446
By the close of 1996,

840
00:37:54,489 --> 00:37:57,884
industry leader Marvel
filed for bankruptcy.

841
00:37:57,927 --> 00:37:59,277
With the comics
themselves

842
00:37:59,320 --> 00:38:01,235
no longer able
to keep it afloat,

843
00:38:01,279 --> 00:38:03,977
its only hope lay
in the motion pictures

844
00:38:04,020 --> 00:38:05,674
that were currently
in development

845
00:38:05,718 --> 00:38:07,502
with film studios
at the time,

846
00:38:07,546 --> 00:38:10,375
and with their previous lack
of success at the box office,

847
00:38:10,418 --> 00:38:12,333
their chances
seemed slim.

848
00:38:12,377 --> 00:38:16,206
And then, in 1998,
a film was released

849
00:38:16,250 --> 00:38:19,732
focused on a Marvel character
few were even aware of...

850
00:38:19,775 --> 00:38:21,603
...Blade.

851
00:38:21,647 --> 00:38:25,259
Blade was
Marvel's first successful

852
00:38:25,303 --> 00:38:28,697
cinematic theatrical entry in
the comic book superhero world.

853
00:38:28,741 --> 00:38:31,526
But for 99% of people
going to that movie

854
00:38:31,570 --> 00:38:34,747
it was, "Oh, it's a Wesley
Snipes action-horror movie

855
00:38:34,790 --> 00:38:37,750
where he plays a vampire
and he kills vampires." Neat!

856
00:38:39,926 --> 00:38:42,102
It's like a bad dream.

857
00:38:42,145 --> 00:38:44,278
There are worse things
out tonight than vampires.

858
00:38:44,322 --> 00:38:45,845
Like what?

859
00:38:45,888 --> 00:38:47,412
Like me.

860
00:38:47,455 --> 00:38:50,415
It was surprising that
Marvel's first cinematic hit

861
00:38:50,458 --> 00:38:51,851
turned out to be Blade,

862
00:38:51,894 --> 00:38:53,853
because even within
comic book readers

863
00:38:53,896 --> 00:38:56,290
Blade was
an obscure character.

864
00:38:56,334 --> 00:38:58,379
He appeared
in the Marvel comic

865
00:38:58,423 --> 00:39:01,077
"Tomb of Dracula
in the 1970s.

866
00:39:01,121 --> 00:39:02,383
Blade was a character

867
00:39:02,427 --> 00:39:05,604
who was half vampire
who hunted vampires.

868
00:39:05,647 --> 00:39:07,388
Being able to describe
the character

869
00:39:07,432 --> 00:39:09,434
in two to three sentences
is very important.

870
00:39:09,477 --> 00:39:12,262
If you can do that then
the audience can accept that.

871
00:39:12,306 --> 00:39:14,047
I think the success of
Blade was that

872
00:39:14,090 --> 00:39:15,614
we had
an established action star

873
00:39:15,657 --> 00:39:17,485
or somebody who was on
the rise as an action star

874
00:39:17,529 --> 00:39:18,834
Wesley Snipes.

875
00:39:18,878 --> 00:39:21,097
And we had
a very fun vampire film.

876
00:39:21,141 --> 00:39:23,404
It was probably one
of the first films to capitalize

877
00:39:23,448 --> 00:39:25,711
on what would later become
the vampire zeitgeist,

878
00:39:25,754 --> 00:39:29,149
minus the romance and sparkles
of the twilight series.

879
00:39:40,726 --> 00:39:43,076
You're one of them, aren't you.

880
00:39:45,165 --> 00:39:48,951
No, I'm something else.

881
00:39:48,995 --> 00:39:50,866
There's an interesting
lesson in Blade.

882
00:39:50,910 --> 00:39:54,870
The fact that the character
was so relatively unknown.

883
00:39:54,914 --> 00:39:56,263
There is no one
that could say,

884
00:39:56,306 --> 00:39:58,613
"Hm, I think it should
be more like this."

885
00:39:58,657 --> 00:40:01,355
If you put Superman
or Batman on screen

886
00:40:01,399 --> 00:40:03,052
it's almost like
a Rorschach test.

887
00:40:03,096 --> 00:40:04,706
You can ask
any film executive

888
00:40:04,750 --> 00:40:06,491
what they think a Superman
movie should have

889
00:40:06,534 --> 00:40:08,188
and they'll have an answer.

890
00:40:08,231 --> 00:40:10,059
That's not necessarily
a good thing.

891
00:40:10,103 --> 00:40:12,714
Ask them what a Blade movie
should be like, they don't know.

892
00:40:12,758 --> 00:40:14,412
That could be a good thing.

893
00:40:14,455 --> 00:40:15,804
I loveBlade.

894
00:40:15,848 --> 00:40:17,415
I love the character
of Blade.

895
00:40:17,458 --> 00:40:19,591
I love the movie Blade
and I love Wesley Snipes.

896
00:40:19,634 --> 00:40:21,157
To make
that kind of investment...

897
00:40:21,201 --> 00:40:22,942
It was the same
thing with The Crow

898
00:40:22,985 --> 00:40:25,031
where you have
an obscure character.

899
00:40:25,074 --> 00:40:26,946
On paper it shouldn't work.

900
00:40:26,989 --> 00:40:30,602
And at the time, especially
then it shouldn't work

901
00:40:30,645 --> 00:40:32,865
because there was nothing
in the pop culture landscape

902
00:40:32,908 --> 00:40:35,171
that would indicate
that audiences were hungry

903
00:40:35,215 --> 00:40:38,044
for a black vampire killer
from Marvel comics.

904
00:40:38,087 --> 00:40:40,438
A character that didn't
even have his own book.

905
00:40:40,481 --> 00:40:43,702
He was an ancillary character
from another book.

906
00:40:43,745 --> 00:40:45,834
The fact that they threw
down, they made the investment

907
00:40:45,878 --> 00:40:47,836
and they really made it work,
I thought it was great.

908
00:40:47,880 --> 00:40:50,056
I wish that movie
got more love now

909
00:40:50,099 --> 00:40:52,798
compared to a lot of the Marvel
movies that have come out.

910
00:40:52,841 --> 00:40:56,236
None of them would have happened
without Blade.

911
00:40:56,279 --> 00:40:58,456
Blade provided
a glimmer of hope

912
00:40:58,499 --> 00:41:00,240
during Marvel's
darkest hour,

913
00:41:00,283 --> 00:41:02,285
not just a success
in its own right

914
00:41:02,329 --> 00:41:05,375
but only one of a number
of projects being developed

915
00:41:05,419 --> 00:41:07,334
by different studios.

916
00:41:07,377 --> 00:41:08,901
This last minute
resurgence

917
00:41:08,944 --> 00:41:10,990
couldn't have been
better timed.

918
00:41:11,033 --> 00:41:12,905
Over the previous decade

919
00:41:12,948 --> 00:41:14,994
digital technology
had been advancing

920
00:41:15,037 --> 00:41:16,735
at an astonishing rate,

921
00:41:16,778 --> 00:41:18,476
and this evolution
had fed directly

922
00:41:18,519 --> 00:41:20,521
into the cinematic world.

923
00:41:20,565 --> 00:41:23,437
FromTerminator 2
andJurassic Park

924
00:41:23,481 --> 00:41:25,526
toTitanic
andStarship Troopers,

925
00:41:25,570 --> 00:41:30,226
in the 1990s computer
generated imagery, or CGI,

926
00:41:30,270 --> 00:41:31,750
began to enable
filmmakers

927
00:41:31,793 --> 00:41:35,362
to realistically portray
the previously unfilmable.

928
00:41:35,405 --> 00:41:36,929
At the dawn
of the new millennium,

929
00:41:36,972 --> 00:41:39,061
a pioneering film emerged

930
00:41:39,105 --> 00:41:41,324
that was inspired
by the comic book form,

931
00:41:41,368 --> 00:41:45,764
and it gave a true indication
of the future of cinema.

932
00:41:45,807 --> 00:41:48,810
What was the
first great comic book movie

933
00:41:48,854 --> 00:41:51,378
that signaled
what the movies could do?

934
00:41:51,421 --> 00:41:52,771
For me, it'sThe Matrix.

935
00:41:52,814 --> 00:41:54,642
The Matrix is not
a comic book adaptation.

936
00:41:54,686 --> 00:41:57,819
I don't care.
The Wachowskis came from

937
00:41:57,863 --> 00:42:00,953
the universes of Jack Kirby
and Neal Adams

938
00:42:00,996 --> 00:42:02,998
and all the other great
comic book people.

939
00:42:03,042 --> 00:42:04,478
They were conversant.

940
00:42:04,522 --> 00:42:06,088
They understood
the physics of it.

941
00:42:06,132 --> 00:42:09,570
They understood
the wow factor of it.

942
00:42:09,614 --> 00:42:11,006
They put it on the screen first.

943
00:42:16,272 --> 00:42:18,753
That last scene
in the first movie when Neo

944
00:42:18,797 --> 00:42:20,886
launches himself
into the sky...

945
00:42:26,152 --> 00:42:27,762
Everybody in the theatre

946
00:42:27,806 --> 00:42:30,460
that owned a box
full of comics at home

947
00:42:30,504 --> 00:42:32,245
had the same thought.

948
00:42:32,288 --> 00:42:34,464
That's Superman.
That's what is should look like.

949
00:42:34,508 --> 00:42:36,379
That's what
we've been wanting to see.

950
00:42:36,423 --> 00:42:38,860
How come I've never seen that
in a superhero movie?

951
00:42:38,904 --> 00:42:40,775
Yet now
the wait was over.

952
00:42:40,819 --> 00:42:43,735
After years of sub-standard,
low-budget films

953
00:42:43,778 --> 00:42:46,520
failing to bring
the Marvel universe to life,

954
00:42:46,564 --> 00:42:49,305
in 2000
one of its flagship titles

955
00:42:49,349 --> 00:42:51,481
made its transition
to the big screen -

956
00:42:51,525 --> 00:42:53,353
The X-Men.

957
00:42:53,396 --> 00:42:56,008
Developed by Stan Lee
and Jack Kirby,

958
00:42:56,051 --> 00:42:57,705
it would become
the biggest-selling comic

959
00:42:57,749 --> 00:42:59,272
of the 1990s,

960
00:42:59,315 --> 00:43:02,362
although initially
it proved less successful...

961
00:43:02,405 --> 00:43:04,059
The X-Men have a long

962
00:43:04,103 --> 00:43:05,626
and convoluted history.

963
00:43:05,670 --> 00:43:08,020
They started
as one of the last teams

964
00:43:08,063 --> 00:43:11,197
that Lee and Kirby created
in the 1960s.

965
00:43:11,240 --> 00:43:15,331
Their book got cancelled
every five days

966
00:43:15,375 --> 00:43:17,507
it seemed like
through the 60s and 70s.

967
00:43:17,551 --> 00:43:21,294
And then in the hands of Chris
Claremont and Dave Cockrum

968
00:43:21,337 --> 00:43:23,513
they had
this incredible resurgence.

969
00:43:23,557 --> 00:43:25,690
The appeal
of the title was simple.

970
00:43:25,733 --> 00:43:29,650
A cool bunch of characters
that had just been created

971
00:43:29,694 --> 00:43:32,000
so it was
totally virgin territory,

972
00:43:32,044 --> 00:43:34,089
and the chance to work

973
00:43:34,133 --> 00:43:36,135
with one of the best artists
in the business, Dave Cockrum.

974
00:43:36,178 --> 00:43:37,963
Spidey had been around
for five years.

975
00:43:38,006 --> 00:43:39,312
The FF had been.

976
00:43:39,355 --> 00:43:40,835
Everyone else
had continuity.

977
00:43:40,879 --> 00:43:43,011
Everyone else had
a clutch of writers

978
00:43:43,055 --> 00:43:44,665
who'd come before

979
00:43:44,709 --> 00:43:47,189
who defined the characters
in the series.

980
00:43:47,233 --> 00:43:53,631
This was virgin territory
and it was irresistible.

981
00:43:53,674 --> 00:43:55,458
The X-Men were
very different

982
00:43:55,502 --> 00:43:58,331
from Lee and Kirby's
other creations.

983
00:43:58,374 --> 00:44:01,160
Where their previous heroes
had been normal people

984
00:44:01,203 --> 00:44:03,553
transformed by exposure
to cosmic rays

985
00:44:03,597 --> 00:44:05,686
and radioactive spiders,

986
00:44:05,730 --> 00:44:07,209
this was a team
of mutants

987
00:44:07,253 --> 00:44:09,124
who were born
with their superpowers

988
00:44:09,168 --> 00:44:11,083
and shunned by society.

989
00:44:11,126 --> 00:44:14,652
During Claremont's
17-year tenure on the title,

990
00:44:14,695 --> 00:44:17,089
their struggle proved
particularly resonant

991
00:44:17,132 --> 00:44:19,439
for an ever-growing
number of readers.

992
00:44:19,482 --> 00:44:20,962
The X-Men are like

993
00:44:21,006 --> 00:44:22,660
comic book fans
themselves.

994
00:44:22,703 --> 00:44:26,533
They are a close-knit
community of outcasts.

995
00:44:26,576 --> 00:44:28,622
Within Marvel, there were
the Spider-Man,

996
00:44:28,666 --> 00:44:30,276
The Hulk, Daredevil fans

997
00:44:30,319 --> 00:44:31,712
and then there were
the X-Men fans

998
00:44:31,756 --> 00:44:33,758
who would have liked
the universe to themselves.

999
00:44:33,801 --> 00:44:36,238
I knew some people
who would read The X-Men

1000
00:44:36,282 --> 00:44:37,936
and wouldn't read
other comic books.

1001
00:44:37,979 --> 00:44:39,807
They were totally immersed
in the X-Men.

1002
00:44:39,851 --> 00:44:41,766
It was like punk rock fans.

1003
00:44:41,809 --> 00:44:43,115
We only to listen to punk.

1004
00:44:43,158 --> 00:44:45,160
We're not going
to listen to anything else.

1005
00:44:45,204 --> 00:44:48,163
The X-Men had that kind
of effect on comic books.

1006
00:44:48,207 --> 00:44:50,078
An X-Men film
had been in development

1007
00:44:50,122 --> 00:44:51,689
since the early 90s,

1008
00:44:51,732 --> 00:44:53,821
when Terminator
director James Cameron

1009
00:44:53,865 --> 00:44:55,388
was linked to
the project,

1010
00:44:55,431 --> 00:44:57,303
and although
20th Century Fox

1011
00:44:57,346 --> 00:44:59,871
had obtained the rights
in 1994,

1012
00:44:59,914 --> 00:45:01,350
they were unable to see

1013
00:45:01,394 --> 00:45:03,788
the true value
of their acquisition.

1014
00:45:03,831 --> 00:45:06,573
Fox couldn't
get a handle on the concept.

1015
00:45:06,616 --> 00:45:08,053
So I ended up writing
a memo

1016
00:45:08,096 --> 00:45:10,751
to explain to them
who are the X-Men,

1017
00:45:10,795 --> 00:45:12,971
what makes it different.

1018
00:45:13,014 --> 00:45:17,236
What I said was, this is not
a story about superheroes.

1019
00:45:17,279 --> 00:45:20,413
It is about trying to make
a place for yourself

1020
00:45:20,456 --> 00:45:23,546
in a world that
frankly doesn't want you.

1021
00:45:25,026 --> 00:45:26,549
And you have to
prove to them

1022
00:45:26,593 --> 00:45:29,422
we have value,
we have a right to be here.

1023
00:45:29,465 --> 00:45:32,512
With The X-Men,
it became mostly a story

1024
00:45:32,555 --> 00:45:36,429
about immigrants
coming to America

1025
00:45:36,472 --> 00:45:38,518
and trying to fit in.

1026
00:45:38,561 --> 00:45:40,955
I have here a list of names

1027
00:45:40,999 --> 00:45:42,609
of identified mutants

1028
00:45:42,652 --> 00:45:44,916
living right here
in the United States.

1029
00:45:44,959 --> 00:45:47,440
- Senator Kelly.
- Now here's a girl in Illinois,

1030
00:45:47,483 --> 00:45:49,268
who can walk through walls.

1031
00:45:49,311 --> 00:45:52,140
Now, what's to stop her
from walking into a bank vault?

1032
00:45:52,184 --> 00:45:55,100
or into the White House
or into their houses?

1033
00:45:55,143 --> 00:45:57,450
- Senator Kelly!
- There are even rumors,

1034
00:45:57,493 --> 00:45:59,800
Ms. Grey,
of mutants so powerful

1035
00:45:59,844 --> 00:46:03,412
that they can enter our minds
and control our thoughts,

1036
00:46:03,456 --> 00:46:06,067
taking away
our God-given free will.

1037
00:46:06,111 --> 00:46:09,244
I think the American people
deserve the right to decide

1038
00:46:09,288 --> 00:46:12,770
whether they want their children
to be at school with mutants,

1039
00:46:12,813 --> 00:46:14,249
to be taught by mutants.

1040
00:46:15,947 --> 00:46:18,079
That is
a more easily embraceable

1041
00:46:18,123 --> 00:46:20,342
or relatable concept

1042
00:46:20,386 --> 00:46:23,258
and unfortunately
more real than,

1043
00:46:23,302 --> 00:46:25,347
it's the adventures
of a billionaire

1044
00:46:25,391 --> 00:46:28,568
who wants to fight crime.

1045
00:46:28,611 --> 00:46:31,049
With acclaimed
young director Bryan Singer

1046
00:46:31,092 --> 00:46:32,398
calling the shots,

1047
00:46:32,441 --> 00:46:34,922
anticipation
for the movie ran high,

1048
00:46:34,966 --> 00:46:37,664
yet as withBatman
a decade beforehand,

1049
00:46:37,707 --> 00:46:39,274
fans were anxious

1050
00:46:39,318 --> 00:46:41,363
regarding the casting
of their favorite character,

1051
00:46:41,407 --> 00:46:44,323
the violent
anti-hero Wolverine.

1052
00:46:44,366 --> 00:46:47,326
Initially Dougray Scott
was cast in the role,

1053
00:46:47,369 --> 00:46:49,110
but was forced
to back out,

1054
00:46:49,154 --> 00:46:51,417
and Singer returned
to his original choice,

1055
00:46:51,460 --> 00:46:53,114
Russell Crowe.

1056
00:46:53,158 --> 00:46:56,509
Crowe too was unavailable,
but he suggested his friend

1057
00:46:56,552 --> 00:46:59,729
and fellow Australian,
Hugh Jackman, for the part,

1058
00:46:59,773 --> 00:47:02,994
an actor most known for
his work in musical theatre.

1059
00:47:03,037 --> 00:47:07,172
And like Michael Keaton, he
proved an inspired choice.

1060
00:47:07,215 --> 00:47:08,695
I think the success

1061
00:47:08,738 --> 00:47:10,349
of the X-Men films
hinged on

1062
00:47:10,392 --> 00:47:12,090
the perfect casting
of Wolverine.

1063
00:47:12,133 --> 00:47:14,440
There is no character
probably more beloved

1064
00:47:14,483 --> 00:47:16,094
in the Marvel universe,

1065
00:47:16,137 --> 00:47:18,226
a character whose origins
were shrouded in mystery

1066
00:47:18,270 --> 00:47:19,532
for the longest time.

1067
00:47:19,575 --> 00:47:21,360
That film lived and died

1068
00:47:21,403 --> 00:47:23,492
on Hugh Jackman
playing Wolverine

1069
00:47:23,536 --> 00:47:26,321
in a way that fans
could get behind.

1070
00:47:27,801 --> 00:47:30,282
Come on, buddy.
This isn't going to work.

1071
00:47:30,325 --> 00:47:32,197
- I know what you are.
- You lost your money.

1072
00:47:32,240 --> 00:47:34,852
You keep this up,
you lose something else.

1073
00:47:37,071 --> 00:47:38,246
Look out!

1074
00:47:45,775 --> 00:47:47,255
Wolverine
would not be part

1075
00:47:47,299 --> 00:47:49,257
of the pop culture landscape
without Jackman.

1076
00:47:49,301 --> 00:47:52,217
The two are intrinsically
tied to each other.

1077
00:47:52,260 --> 00:47:54,393
None of those movies
would work without him.

1078
00:47:54,436 --> 00:47:56,699
He's so naturally charismatic

1079
00:47:56,743 --> 00:47:58,701
and he's handsome
without being pretty

1080
00:47:58,745 --> 00:48:01,487
and he's manly
without being brutish

1081
00:48:01,530 --> 00:48:03,445
and he sells
the savagery of it.

1082
00:48:07,145 --> 00:48:08,973
They built
this whole franchise

1083
00:48:09,016 --> 00:48:11,279
and this whole ensemble
around him.

1084
00:48:11,323 --> 00:48:13,629
He was this unknown Aussie guy
that came in from nowhere

1085
00:48:13,673 --> 00:48:16,894
to replace somebody
and he made the whole thing.

1086
00:48:16,937 --> 00:48:18,808
Like Richard
Donner'sSuperman,

1087
00:48:18,852 --> 00:48:21,681
director Singer assembled
an ensemble cast,

1088
00:48:21,724 --> 00:48:23,030
including British
heavyweights

1089
00:48:23,074 --> 00:48:25,076
Patrick Stewart
and Ian McKellen

1090
00:48:25,119 --> 00:48:27,208
and rising star
Halle Berry.

1091
00:48:27,252 --> 00:48:29,080
And in keeping
with the comic book,

1092
00:48:29,123 --> 00:48:31,952
the film brought a realistic,
dramatic weight

1093
00:48:31,996 --> 00:48:34,476
to its fantastical
premise.

1094
00:48:34,520 --> 00:48:37,697
The ambition of X-Men
declared itself immediately.

1095
00:48:37,740 --> 00:48:40,613
The movie opens in
a Nazi concentration camp

1096
00:48:40,656 --> 00:48:43,224
with a family being marched
to their death.

1097
00:48:43,268 --> 00:48:46,662
This was not Ned Beatty
making jokes in Metropolis

1098
00:48:46,706 --> 00:48:49,404
This was not Jack Nicholson
mugging for the camera.

1099
00:48:49,448 --> 00:48:50,928
This was saying,

1100
00:48:50,971 --> 00:48:53,060
"We're going
into the real world.

1101
00:48:53,104 --> 00:48:55,628
We're bringing
the real world into this."

1102
00:49:20,348 --> 00:49:21,915
The film
opened with $55 million

1103
00:49:21,959 --> 00:49:23,438
opening the weekend.

1104
00:49:23,482 --> 00:49:25,963
That was the fifth biggest
opening of all time

1105
00:49:26,006 --> 00:49:29,096
and it was the biggest opening
weekend ever for a non-sequel.

1106
00:49:29,140 --> 00:49:33,318
Because Bryan Singer didn't have
a gazillion dollars

1107
00:49:33,361 --> 00:49:36,103
he had to put the emphasis
on the drama

1108
00:49:36,147 --> 00:49:38,888
and the characters
and the storytelling.

1109
00:49:38,932 --> 00:49:42,327
That's why that film still holds
up, not as an action movie,

1110
00:49:42,370 --> 00:49:43,545
'cause there's
very little action in it,

1111
00:49:43,589 --> 00:49:46,287
but it still works
as a character drama.

1112
00:49:49,682 --> 00:49:52,554
Are you sneaking around
in here, Charles?

1113
00:49:52,598 --> 00:49:54,252
Whatever are you looking for?

1114
00:50:02,129 --> 00:50:04,044
I'm looking for hope.

1115
00:50:05,654 --> 00:50:09,049
I will bring you hope,
old friend.

1116
00:50:09,093 --> 00:50:10,964
And I ask
only one thing in return.

1117
00:50:14,098 --> 00:50:16,100
Don't get in my way.

1118
00:50:16,143 --> 00:50:17,579
It's a
much more grown up film

1119
00:50:17,623 --> 00:50:19,668
than its predecessors,
in many ways

1120
00:50:19,712 --> 00:50:22,541
partly because it tackles
big political issues.

1121
00:50:22,584 --> 00:50:25,413
I think it deliberately
positioned itself

1122
00:50:25,457 --> 00:50:28,112
as not a film just for children,

1123
00:50:28,155 --> 00:50:30,070
not a film just for fans.

1124
00:50:30,114 --> 00:50:31,941
Something that is
an origin story,

1125
00:50:31,985 --> 00:50:33,682
so you don't have
to have read the comics.

1126
00:50:33,726 --> 00:50:35,119
But if you have read the comics

1127
00:50:35,162 --> 00:50:36,859
then you get all the joy

1128
00:50:36,903 --> 00:50:39,732
and delight of seeing
all these people realized.

1129
00:50:39,775 --> 00:50:42,082
Particularly post-Matrix,
the choice of the costumes

1130
00:50:42,126 --> 00:50:43,649
was very interesting.

1131
00:50:43,692 --> 00:50:46,173
So they don't go with
the yellow Wolverine suit.

1132
00:50:46,217 --> 00:50:48,219
Everyone's wearing leather,
everyone looks cool.

1133
00:50:48,262 --> 00:50:50,177
And again it was a cool film.

1134
00:50:50,221 --> 00:50:51,787
There were
a lot of women in it.

1135
00:50:51,831 --> 00:50:54,138
WhenX-Men
came out as a film

1136
00:50:54,181 --> 00:50:57,054
and you had this sort
of 50-50 cast,

1137
00:50:57,097 --> 00:50:58,707
not only were you
bringing in the guys

1138
00:50:58,751 --> 00:51:00,231
that were going
to see it anyway.

1139
00:51:00,274 --> 00:51:03,103
You had a lot of women
who wanted to go and see it too

1140
00:51:03,147 --> 00:51:05,236
because, hey, I want to go
see kick ass chicks.

1141
00:51:19,119 --> 00:51:21,556
It was such
a huge thrill to see that.

1142
00:51:21,600 --> 00:51:23,080
I know for a lot of people

1143
00:51:23,123 --> 00:51:26,126
seeing Batman on
the big screen was a big deal.

1144
00:51:26,170 --> 00:51:28,389
But for me it was X-Men.

1145
00:51:28,433 --> 00:51:30,957
It was seeing
all of these women fighting.

1146
00:51:31,000 --> 00:51:33,481
I loved that.

1147
00:51:33,525 --> 00:51:35,744
After its first
faltering steps,

1148
00:51:35,788 --> 00:51:37,268
in the wake of X-Men

1149
00:51:37,311 --> 00:51:40,140
the superhero blockbuster
was up and running.

1150
00:51:40,184 --> 00:51:43,230
Comic books were suddenly
a popular source material

1151
00:51:43,274 --> 00:51:45,014
for a whole
range of films,

1152
00:51:45,058 --> 00:51:46,886
and in the new millennium
acclaimed works

1153
00:51:46,929 --> 00:51:48,757
such asGhost World

1154
00:51:48,801 --> 00:51:50,716
and the Oscar-winning
Road to Perdition

1155
00:51:50,759 --> 00:51:52,196
took non-fantasy comics

1156
00:51:52,239 --> 00:51:54,502
and turned them
into serious cinema.

1157
00:51:56,765 --> 00:51:59,899
In early 2002,
the secondBlade film opened

1158
00:51:59,942 --> 00:52:01,553
and became
another commercial

1159
00:52:01,596 --> 00:52:03,250
and critical success,

1160
00:52:03,294 --> 00:52:07,646
yet all eyes were focused
on the Summer's big release.

1161
00:52:07,689 --> 00:52:09,126
After a short-lived
TV series

1162
00:52:09,169 --> 00:52:11,650
and several
successful cartoons,

1163
00:52:11,693 --> 00:52:13,913
Marvel's most
well-known character

1164
00:52:13,956 --> 00:52:17,438
was making his way
to the big screen...

1165
00:52:17,482 --> 00:52:18,787
The Amazing Spider-man was

1166
00:52:18,831 --> 00:52:20,180
one of the most
amazing creations

1167
00:52:20,224 --> 00:52:22,008
in comic book history.

1168
00:52:22,051 --> 00:52:26,839
Stan Lee and Steve Ditko
put together all the great parts

1169
00:52:26,882 --> 00:52:28,319
of superheroes.

1170
00:52:28,362 --> 00:52:31,148
They took a kid like Robin.

1171
00:52:31,191 --> 00:52:34,194
They took a family tragedy
like Batman.

1172
00:52:34,238 --> 00:52:36,283
And they took an alter-ego
like Superman.

1173
00:52:36,327 --> 00:52:38,111
And they put it all together.

1174
00:52:38,155 --> 00:52:40,461
And it just
absolutely caught fire

1175
00:52:40,505 --> 00:52:43,247
because Spider-Man was the
first comic book hero

1176
00:52:43,290 --> 00:52:47,425
with any gravitas
who represented the readers.

1177
00:52:47,468 --> 00:52:48,730
The problem
with Spider-Man

1178
00:52:48,774 --> 00:52:51,777
from a mass
entertainment point of view

1179
00:52:51,820 --> 00:52:54,954
is you could do a couple
of cartoons of him swinging

1180
00:52:54,997 --> 00:52:57,217
but he had these powers.
He was acrobatic.

1181
00:52:57,261 --> 00:53:00,177
He jumped around.
He shot his web shooters.

1182
00:53:00,220 --> 00:53:03,005
And there was a terrible
television show in the 70s

1183
00:53:03,049 --> 00:53:07,619
and basically the problem was
the technology was so poor.

1184
00:53:07,662 --> 00:53:11,623
until the magical creation
of something called CGI.

1185
00:53:11,666 --> 00:53:15,496
More than anything,
that's what bailed Marvel out -

1186
00:53:15,540 --> 00:53:19,457
the ability to portray
their characters on film

1187
00:53:19,500 --> 00:53:21,981
in a way that looked
credible and exciting

1188
00:53:22,024 --> 00:53:24,636
and would bring audiences
into the multiplex.

1189
00:53:24,679 --> 00:53:26,203
Look, up there!

1190
00:53:33,384 --> 00:53:34,950
Save my baby, please!

1191
00:53:37,823 --> 00:53:40,608
I sit there on opening night,
and I'm thinking,

1192
00:53:40,652 --> 00:53:44,308
this feels unreal, after all
these years reading about it.

1193
00:53:44,351 --> 00:53:47,485
Like, I'm actually watching
a Spider-Man movie!

1194
00:53:47,528 --> 00:53:49,269
Seeing
Spider-Man swinging

1195
00:53:49,313 --> 00:53:50,836
across the screen
for the first time

1196
00:53:50,879 --> 00:53:53,969
had as much of an impact
on audiences

1197
00:53:54,013 --> 00:53:56,145
as seeing Christopher Reeve
fly as Superman

1198
00:53:56,189 --> 00:53:57,625
for the first time.

1199
00:53:57,669 --> 00:54:01,934
It was such an important moment
for fans of the comics.

1200
00:54:01,977 --> 00:54:04,371
And those fans were
secure in the knowledge that,

1201
00:54:04,415 --> 00:54:05,981
for the first time,

1202
00:54:06,025 --> 00:54:07,766
a film adaptation
was in the creative hands

1203
00:54:07,809 --> 00:54:12,161
of one of their own -
director Sam Raimi.

1204
00:54:12,205 --> 00:54:14,686
I've a
long history with Sam Raimi.

1205
00:54:14,729 --> 00:54:18,298
I think he's the perfect
director for Spider-Man.

1206
00:54:18,342 --> 00:54:21,823
The main thing with Sam is
he loves making movies.

1207
00:54:21,867 --> 00:54:23,521
And he loves Spider-Man.

1208
00:54:23,564 --> 00:54:25,871
He's a huge Spider-Man geek.

1209
00:54:25,914 --> 00:54:27,307
He's a huge comic geek.

1210
00:54:27,351 --> 00:54:31,355
Spider-Man, I know he loves it.

1211
00:54:31,398 --> 00:54:33,879
He came to that project

1212
00:54:33,922 --> 00:54:36,316
with a spirit that
had not been seen before

1213
00:54:36,360 --> 00:54:38,710
by a filmmaker
adapting a comic book.

1214
00:54:38,753 --> 00:54:42,583
As much as Richard Donner
succeeded with Superman,

1215
00:54:42,627 --> 00:54:44,759
he didn't grow up
immersed in Superman

1216
00:54:44,803 --> 00:54:46,152
the way Sam Raimi grew up

1217
00:54:46,195 --> 00:54:48,154
immersed in the stories
of Stan Lee

1218
00:54:48,197 --> 00:54:49,895
and Steve Ditko and John Romita.

1219
00:54:49,938 --> 00:54:52,376
This is a guy that knew
what mattered in Spider-Man

1220
00:54:52,419 --> 00:54:54,943
when he made his choices
for the film.

1221
00:54:54,987 --> 00:54:58,077
They weren't processed
through a Hollywood filter.

1222
00:54:58,120 --> 00:54:59,557
I think Sam Raimi is

1223
00:54:59,600 --> 00:55:01,254
the perfect choice
to direct Spider-Man.

1224
00:55:01,298 --> 00:55:02,516
If you look
at his body of work

1225
00:55:02,560 --> 00:55:04,301
from "Army of Darkness"
to the Evil Dead films,

1226
00:55:04,344 --> 00:55:07,086
he's the kind of guy
who appreciates the fun

1227
00:55:07,129 --> 00:55:09,784
in Spider-Man,
the fun in comics.

1228
00:55:09,828 --> 00:55:11,482
We look at them
with this gravitas

1229
00:55:11,525 --> 00:55:13,310
because they are heroes
and they protect us

1230
00:55:13,353 --> 00:55:14,920
from world changing events.

1231
00:55:14,963 --> 00:55:17,792
But there is something
inherently fun and exhilarating

1232
00:55:17,836 --> 00:55:20,186
about swinging through
the canyons of New York City

1233
00:55:20,229 --> 00:55:24,669
with a spider line
and just being a hero.

1234
00:55:26,323 --> 00:55:27,715
And in the
role of this hero,

1235
00:55:27,759 --> 00:55:30,283
Sam Raimi turned down
the studio's choice,

1236
00:55:30,327 --> 00:55:33,460
Freddie Prinz Jr.
in favor of Tobey Maguire,

1237
00:55:33,504 --> 00:55:35,897
an actor
who had won critical acclaim

1238
00:55:35,941 --> 00:55:37,595
in dramas Pleasantville,

1239
00:55:37,638 --> 00:55:39,771
The Ice Storm
and Wonder Boys.

1240
00:55:39,814 --> 00:55:41,381
Marvel had a lot riding

1241
00:55:41,425 --> 00:55:43,078
on that first
Spider-Man movie.

1242
00:55:43,122 --> 00:55:47,518
So it was extremely important
who was cast as Spider-Man,

1243
00:55:47,561 --> 00:55:50,738
Peter Parker, and who was
chosen as director.

1244
00:55:50,782 --> 00:55:54,002
I think the choice
of Tobey Maguire was perfect.

1245
00:56:07,973 --> 00:56:10,323
Peter!

1246
00:56:10,367 --> 00:56:12,978
What's going on in there?

1247
00:56:13,021 --> 00:56:15,067
I'm exercising.
I'm not dressed, Aunt May.

1248
00:56:15,110 --> 00:56:18,505
Well, you're acting
so strangely, Peter.

1249
00:56:19,680 --> 00:56:21,856
OK, thanks.

1250
00:56:21,900 --> 00:56:23,641
He was Peter Parker.

1251
00:56:23,684 --> 00:56:25,164
He had the voice
and the look.

1252
00:56:25,207 --> 00:56:28,123
That's what I always imagined
Peter Parker to be.

1253
00:56:28,167 --> 00:56:28,994
It's perfect.

1254
00:56:29,037 --> 00:56:30,778
The film was the right movie

1255
00:56:30,822 --> 00:56:32,650
at the right place
at the right time.

1256
00:56:32,693 --> 00:56:34,913
It was good.

1257
00:56:34,956 --> 00:56:37,263
It was a character
driven drama.

1258
00:56:37,306 --> 00:56:41,354
It was focused on Peter Parker
and his journey,

1259
00:56:41,398 --> 00:56:43,878
his grief over the death
of his Uncle Ben,

1260
00:56:43,922 --> 00:56:47,012
his struggle to get
through high school, college,

1261
00:56:47,055 --> 00:56:49,318
and eventually balance all that
with being Spider-Man,

1262
00:56:49,362 --> 00:56:52,321
his unrequited love story
with Mary Jane.

1263
00:56:52,365 --> 00:56:55,412
Like Batman,
it showed that a film

1264
00:56:55,455 --> 00:56:58,023
based on a well-known
beloved comic book character

1265
00:56:58,066 --> 00:57:00,982
could blow away
all the old box office records.

1266
00:57:01,026 --> 00:57:04,464
The first film ever
to make over $100 million

1267
00:57:04,508 --> 00:57:06,335
in its opening weekend,

1268
00:57:06,379 --> 00:57:08,773
Spider-Man
was further proof that,

1269
00:57:08,816 --> 00:57:12,429
if done right, superheroes
were box office gold.

1270
00:57:12,472 --> 00:57:14,082
And for
the comic book industry,

1271
00:57:14,126 --> 00:57:16,694
these blockbusters were now
bringing their characters

1272
00:57:16,737 --> 00:57:18,913
to an enormous
global audience.

1273
00:57:18,957 --> 00:57:21,960
Television has
exposed people to characters

1274
00:57:22,003 --> 00:57:24,919
they had no idea
of what they were about.

1275
00:57:24,963 --> 00:57:26,573
Maybe they knew who they were,

1276
00:57:26,617 --> 00:57:28,749
but until they see the movie
they don't understand them.

1277
00:57:28,793 --> 00:57:30,838
I remember seeing
the first Spider-Man movie

1278
00:57:30,882 --> 00:57:32,492
the first Sam Raimi
Spider-Man movie.

1279
00:57:32,536 --> 00:57:36,148
And when Uncle Ben dies
the audience is all torn up.

1280
00:57:36,191 --> 00:57:38,106
- Stay back, stay back!
- That's my uncle!

1281
00:57:39,978 --> 00:57:42,894
- What happened?
- Car jacker. He's been shot.

1282
00:57:42,937 --> 00:57:45,418
We just called the paramedics.
They're on their way.

1283
00:57:45,462 --> 00:57:46,985
Stay back!

1284
00:57:47,028 --> 00:57:48,769
Uncle Ben.

1285
00:57:48,813 --> 00:57:51,250
I've known this story
since I was ten years old.

1286
00:57:51,293 --> 00:57:53,470
It obviously affected me
when I read it.

1287
00:57:53,513 --> 00:57:56,255
But I never thought about it
on a wider audience.

1288
00:57:56,298 --> 00:57:59,824
When Uncle Ben dies,
the audience is devastated.

1289
00:58:00,694 --> 00:58:02,522
Whoa!

1290
00:58:02,566 --> 00:58:05,307
Here's where things change.

1291
00:58:05,351 --> 00:58:08,136
When you stay with the core
of a comical creation

1292
00:58:08,180 --> 00:58:11,749
that I loved
and millions of others loved,

1293
00:58:11,792 --> 00:58:13,577
translate that to film properly

1294
00:58:13,620 --> 00:58:15,535
you're going to make some money.

1295
00:58:15,579 --> 00:58:17,363
Aware of
the potential profits,

1296
00:58:17,406 --> 00:58:20,714
the Hollywood machine
now went into overdrive.

1297
00:58:20,758 --> 00:58:24,762
In the summer of 2003,
The Hulk was released,

1298
00:58:24,805 --> 00:58:26,894
and withThe Fantastic
Four and Daredevil film

1299
00:58:26,938 --> 00:58:28,374
already in production,

1300
00:58:28,417 --> 00:58:31,333
only six years
after facing bankruptcy,

1301
00:58:31,377 --> 00:58:34,641
Stan Lee's creations were now
the most in-demand properties

1302
00:58:34,685 --> 00:58:36,164
in the entertainment
business.

1303
00:58:37,862 --> 00:58:42,170
The filmmakers suddenly realized
there's a market

1304
00:58:42,214 --> 00:58:44,869
for films
that are bigger than life

1305
00:58:44,912 --> 00:58:46,827
with colorful heroes

1306
00:58:46,871 --> 00:58:49,177
with wonderful special effects

1307
00:58:49,221 --> 00:58:52,180
and obviously where can you
get better things than that

1308
00:58:52,224 --> 00:58:55,183
than in comics,
especially in Marvel Comics.

1309
00:58:59,057 --> 00:59:00,406
The Hulk was

1310
00:59:00,449 --> 00:59:03,104
the second
Marvel Comics creation

1311
00:59:03,148 --> 00:59:05,803
between Stan Lee
and Jack Kirby in the 60s.

1312
00:59:05,846 --> 00:59:08,501
Again, in terms of archetypes,
who is he?

1313
00:59:08,545 --> 00:59:10,764
He is Frankenstein,

1314
00:59:10,808 --> 00:59:12,810
with Jekyll and Hyde
kind of mixed in.

1315
00:59:12,853 --> 00:59:15,943
The skinny doctor who gets
bombarded by gamma rays

1316
00:59:15,987 --> 00:59:17,989
and turns into
this hulking brute

1317
00:59:18,032 --> 00:59:21,166
and he has no interest
in defending civil liberty

1318
00:59:21,209 --> 00:59:23,168
or civil virtues or America
in any way.

1319
00:59:23,211 --> 00:59:24,865
He's utterly out for himself.

1320
00:59:30,349 --> 00:59:31,698
The Incredible Hulk

1321
00:59:31,742 --> 00:59:33,613
was Marvel's first
big television success

1322
00:59:33,657 --> 00:59:36,137
in the late 70s and early 80s.

1323
00:59:38,487 --> 00:59:41,490
It was well-acted and it took
the same sort of theme

1324
00:59:41,534 --> 00:59:44,189
as The Fugitive,
the 60s TV show,

1325
00:59:44,232 --> 00:59:46,583
and there was
a tragic theme about it

1326
00:59:46,626 --> 00:59:48,628
which I think was true
to the comic book.

1327
00:59:48,672 --> 00:59:51,152
He was a different kind
of superhero -

1328
00:59:51,196 --> 00:59:54,503
somebody who didn't want
the powers that he had.

1329
00:59:54,547 --> 00:59:57,158
And the TV show,
even though, comic book fans

1330
00:59:57,202 --> 00:59:59,160
had a lot to
quibble with,

1331
00:59:59,204 --> 01:00:01,467
I think it was very successful
for its medium for its time.

1332
01:00:01,510 --> 01:00:03,774
But translating The Hulk
into the big screen

1333
01:00:03,817 --> 01:00:05,602
of course you wanted
more than that.

1334
01:00:05,645 --> 01:00:08,605
Now you could have a bigger
Hulk, a much stronger Hulk,

1335
01:00:08,648 --> 01:00:10,607
truer to the comic books.

1336
01:00:10,650 --> 01:00:12,826
But being true
to the comic books

1337
01:00:12,870 --> 01:00:14,393
wasn't the primary
intention

1338
01:00:14,436 --> 01:00:17,396
for the creative team
behind 2003's Hulk.

1339
01:00:17,439 --> 01:00:20,268
Award-winning
Taiwanese filmmaker Ang Lee

1340
01:00:20,312 --> 01:00:21,835
was the most
critically acclaimed

1341
01:00:21,879 --> 01:00:24,011
and internationally
celebrated director

1342
01:00:24,055 --> 01:00:26,361
ever to take on
a superhero adaptation.

1343
01:00:26,405 --> 01:00:30,148
His film was more interested
in psychology than action,

1344
01:00:30,191 --> 01:00:32,280
its script steeped
in allusions

1345
01:00:32,324 --> 01:00:34,979
to literary classics
and mythology.

1346
01:00:35,022 --> 01:00:38,460
I loved Hulkin 2003.
I loved it.

1347
01:00:38,504 --> 01:00:41,246
If I hadn't wanted
to go see the film

1348
01:00:41,289 --> 01:00:43,901
because I watched the TV show,
which I did,

1349
01:00:43,944 --> 01:00:45,467
so I already loved Hulk,

1350
01:00:45,511 --> 01:00:47,426
I would have gone
because of the director.

1351
01:00:47,469 --> 01:00:50,211
At that point,
it was pretty obvious

1352
01:00:50,255 --> 01:00:52,561
that comic book films
were going to keep going.

1353
01:00:52,605 --> 01:00:55,173
And so I think it was
a really interesting choice

1354
01:00:55,216 --> 01:00:57,523
to take a director
like Ang Lee and say,

1355
01:00:57,566 --> 01:01:00,831
"Here is a big, green guy
who wears purple pants.

1356
01:01:00,874 --> 01:01:02,049
Do what you want with him."

1357
01:01:02,093 --> 01:01:04,095
The gamma's too high.

1358
01:01:04,138 --> 01:01:05,923
Bruce, I can't stop it.

1359
01:01:08,969 --> 01:01:10,667
Harper, get out!

1360
01:01:11,493 --> 01:01:13,104
Get out!

1361
01:01:23,375 --> 01:01:25,290
The idea of
somebody like Tim Burton

1362
01:01:25,333 --> 01:01:27,727
doing a comic book film
made sense to people.

1363
01:01:27,771 --> 01:01:29,990
Ang Lee. You're like,
wait, what now?

1364
01:01:30,034 --> 01:01:31,688
But I think that
sort of gave

1365
01:01:31,731 --> 01:01:34,647
a little more of a footing
to comic book movies

1366
01:01:34,691 --> 01:01:37,171
for people who might have
dismissed them as kids' stuff.

1367
01:01:49,575 --> 01:01:52,012
The Hulk is
very much an Ang Lee picture.

1368
01:01:52,056 --> 01:01:54,754
But it's also super duper
comic booky visually

1369
01:01:54,798 --> 01:01:57,670
in terms of the use of panels
as editing devices,

1370
01:01:57,714 --> 01:02:00,064
the really bright
primary colors,

1371
01:02:00,107 --> 01:02:02,719
the unapologetic
larger-than-life action.

1372
01:02:12,598 --> 01:02:13,686
No!

1373
01:02:27,439 --> 01:02:29,702
But it was a flop.

1374
01:02:29,746 --> 01:02:32,531
I think that was
another case of audiences

1375
01:02:32,574 --> 01:02:35,273
not embracing
a very arthouse drama

1376
01:02:35,316 --> 01:02:37,536
that was disguised
as a comic book movie.

1377
01:02:37,579 --> 01:02:41,105
And I think again,
like withBatman Returns,

1378
01:02:41,148 --> 01:02:43,542
the lesson that Hollywood
took from that is like

1379
01:02:43,585 --> 01:02:45,326
bring in great directors

1380
01:02:45,370 --> 01:02:49,200
but don't let them
go completely crazy.

1381
01:02:49,243 --> 01:02:51,071
Its ambition
was commendable

1382
01:02:51,115 --> 01:02:53,857
when compared to the rash
of films that followed.

1383
01:02:53,900 --> 01:02:56,076
With the Ben Affleck
vehicle Daredevil,

1384
01:02:56,120 --> 01:02:58,818
the second big screen
outing ofThe Punisher

1385
01:02:58,862 --> 01:03:01,473
and a tepid,
family-friendly Fantastic Four,

1386
01:03:01,516 --> 01:03:04,868
the run of Marvel-based hits
came to an end,

1387
01:03:04,911 --> 01:03:07,174
whereas theCatwoman
solo feature film

1388
01:03:07,218 --> 01:03:09,611
starring Halle Berry
quickly made its way

1389
01:03:09,655 --> 01:03:12,179
into worst-film-
of-all-time lists.

1390
01:03:12,223 --> 01:03:15,792
Yet sequels kept
the superhero flag flying,

1391
01:03:15,835 --> 01:03:19,491
with Sam Raimi's Spider-Man
2 and Bryan Singer's X2

1392
01:03:19,534 --> 01:03:22,494
hailed as amongst
the very best of the genre.

1393
01:03:22,537 --> 01:03:24,801
Spider-Man 2
is widely considered

1394
01:03:24,844 --> 01:03:26,193
one of the
greatest sequels,

1395
01:03:26,237 --> 01:03:27,804
especially
in superhero movies.

1396
01:03:27,847 --> 01:03:30,763
The special effects had moved on
that bit more again.

1397
01:03:30,807 --> 01:03:32,765
Even in just
those couple of years

1398
01:03:32,809 --> 01:03:34,680
between films
they're developing,

1399
01:03:34,723 --> 01:03:36,856
they're getting
that bit more weight to them.

1400
01:03:36,900 --> 01:03:39,641
And they are just pushing
what they can do with them.

1401
01:03:39,685 --> 01:03:41,992
Particularly with
the Dr. Octopus character

1402
01:03:42,035 --> 01:03:44,646
and all these kind
of extendable limbs.

1403
01:03:44,690 --> 01:03:47,084
It has some of the
stand-out set pieces still

1404
01:03:47,127 --> 01:03:50,478
in terms of superior cinema,
from that fight on the train

1405
01:03:50,522 --> 01:03:53,220
and when they're fighting
on the side of the building.

1406
01:03:53,264 --> 01:03:55,396
It just gets that stuff
so right.

1407
01:03:55,440 --> 01:03:57,529
It's just hugely entertaining.

1408
01:03:57,572 --> 01:04:00,314
In terms of
being faithful to the source,

1409
01:04:00,358 --> 01:04:04,536
X2 was probably the high
watermark at that time

1410
01:04:04,579 --> 01:04:07,234
for basically
a comic book come to life.

1411
01:04:07,278 --> 01:04:11,325
X2 feels like a trade
paperback all in one sitting.

1412
01:04:11,369 --> 01:04:14,285
The first 50 minutes of X2,
the first act, I still think

1413
01:04:14,328 --> 01:04:16,809
is some of the best
comic book cinema ever made.

1414
01:04:27,211 --> 01:04:30,518
Don't shoot!

1415
01:04:30,562 --> 01:04:32,477
It gets
even more political in X2

1416
01:04:32,520 --> 01:04:33,870
and it gets darker.

1417
01:04:33,913 --> 01:04:35,219
Nightcrawler
was a fantastic character

1418
01:04:35,262 --> 01:04:38,048
and his early sequences
in the White House,

1419
01:04:38,091 --> 01:04:40,789
absolutely showcases CGI -
were very funny, very cool.

1420
01:04:40,833 --> 01:04:43,357
And actually really not like
things we had seen before.

1421
01:04:43,401 --> 01:04:45,707
X2 was
the one that showed

1422
01:04:45,751 --> 01:04:47,361
they really can
do everything.

1423
01:04:47,405 --> 01:04:49,581
They were just using
their powers all the time

1424
01:04:49,624 --> 01:04:51,104
without giving it
a second thought.

1425
01:04:51,148 --> 01:04:53,193
And not only are the
special effects terrific,

1426
01:04:53,237 --> 01:04:55,543
they feel seamless.
They feel like...

1427
01:04:55,587 --> 01:04:57,937
...they're unstrained
in a narrative sense.

1428
01:04:57,981 --> 01:05:00,505
And that's why I'm thinking
they're going "wow".

1429
01:05:00,548 --> 01:05:02,724
This is it. We've done it.

1430
01:05:02,768 --> 01:05:04,465
And as
advances in technology

1431
01:05:04,509 --> 01:05:07,077
helped transport superheroes
to the big screen,

1432
01:05:07,120 --> 01:05:08,730
they also helped bring

1433
01:05:08,774 --> 01:05:11,081
comic book aficionados
closer together.

1434
01:05:11,124 --> 01:05:13,779
Where the only forum
for readers

1435
01:05:13,822 --> 01:05:15,694
had previously been
letters pages

1436
01:05:15,737 --> 01:05:17,565
and the comic book
store itself,

1437
01:05:17,609 --> 01:05:19,741
with the coming
of the digital age,

1438
01:05:19,785 --> 01:05:23,049
once isolated fans
embraced the Internet

1439
01:05:23,093 --> 01:05:27,010
and reached out to others
who shared their passion.

1440
01:05:27,053 --> 01:05:28,576
Of course,
the Internet did so much

1441
01:05:28,620 --> 01:05:31,536
to propel and explode
fan culture

1442
01:05:31,579 --> 01:05:35,018
for comic books and all kinds
of fan obsession.

1443
01:05:35,061 --> 01:05:36,584
If you were a fan
of these comic books,

1444
01:05:36,628 --> 01:05:38,543
you felt kind of alone.

1445
01:05:38,586 --> 01:05:41,241
You know are there
other people out there

1446
01:05:41,285 --> 01:05:44,375
other than just a handful
of friends who are into this.

1447
01:05:44,418 --> 01:05:47,334
What the Internet did
with the message boards,

1448
01:05:47,378 --> 01:05:51,164
now it creates this broad
international community

1449
01:05:51,208 --> 01:05:53,993
where you can comment on
every comic book or superhero.

1450
01:05:54,037 --> 01:05:56,082
You can actually help
to shape the comic books

1451
01:05:56,126 --> 01:05:58,345
because the writers,
the artists,

1452
01:05:58,389 --> 01:06:00,173
would hear about
this too.

1453
01:06:00,217 --> 01:06:04,134
The message board culture
of the late 90s and early 2000s,

1454
01:06:04,177 --> 01:06:07,006
you were able to bridge a gap

1455
01:06:07,050 --> 01:06:09,487
between the fans
and the creatives

1456
01:06:09,530 --> 01:06:12,794
and the artist and the
writers were more accessible.

1457
01:06:12,838 --> 01:06:15,406
You could have conversations
and dialogue with them

1458
01:06:15,449 --> 01:06:17,277
and fans were
able to connect

1459
01:06:17,321 --> 01:06:19,627
and talk about what they loved
or what they didn't love

1460
01:06:19,671 --> 01:06:23,066
about movies or comics
or whatever it may be.

1461
01:06:23,109 --> 01:06:24,763
So we started to see,

1462
01:06:24,806 --> 01:06:26,939
due to the Internet
and online communities,

1463
01:06:26,983 --> 01:06:28,593
the explosion
of fan culture

1464
01:06:28,636 --> 01:06:30,203
which ultimately
I think has led

1465
01:06:30,247 --> 01:06:32,118
to there being
as many conventions

1466
01:06:32,162 --> 01:06:34,381
and fan conventions
as there are today.

1467
01:06:34,425 --> 01:06:36,644
Comic book culture has
become more fan culture.

1468
01:06:36,688 --> 01:06:40,909
Just people getting together
and celebrating what they love.

1469
01:06:40,953 --> 01:06:43,173
The opening years
of the new millennium

1470
01:06:43,216 --> 01:06:44,957
were notable for
the explosion

1471
01:06:45,001 --> 01:06:46,437
of beloved Marvel
characters

1472
01:06:46,480 --> 01:06:49,092
onto the big screen
for the first time.

1473
01:06:49,135 --> 01:06:51,398
2005, however,
was the year

1474
01:06:51,442 --> 01:06:54,401
in which the Dark Knight
once again returned.

1475
01:06:54,445 --> 01:06:56,229
Looking to wipe
the slate clean

1476
01:06:56,273 --> 01:06:58,362
after the extravagance
and incoherence

1477
01:06:58,405 --> 01:07:01,626
of the Joel Schumacher years,
Warner Brothers turned to

1478
01:07:01,669 --> 01:07:03,671
young, celebrated
British director

1479
01:07:03,715 --> 01:07:06,283
Christopher Nolan
to start the series anew,

1480
01:07:06,326 --> 01:07:09,155
withBatman Begins.

1481
01:07:09,199 --> 01:07:10,591
And in telling
this story,

1482
01:07:10,635 --> 01:07:13,768
the creative team of Nolan
and David S. Goyer,

1483
01:07:13,812 --> 01:07:16,075
the writer behind
theBlade franchise,

1484
01:07:16,119 --> 01:07:17,946
looked directly
to the comic books -

1485
01:07:17,990 --> 01:07:21,559
in particular Frank Miller's
seminal origin story

1486
01:07:21,602 --> 01:07:23,343
Batman: Year One

1487
01:07:23,387 --> 01:07:27,086
and the pioneering output of
Denny O'Neil and Neal Adams

1488
01:07:27,130 --> 01:07:28,957
in the 1970s.

1489
01:07:29,001 --> 01:07:30,568
Christopher Nolan did

1490
01:07:30,611 --> 01:07:32,439
something rather
remarkable and simple.

1491
01:07:32,483 --> 01:07:34,702
He was the first major filmmaker

1492
01:07:34,746 --> 01:07:38,619
to tell the story of,
as they said in 1940,

1493
01:07:38,663 --> 01:07:42,275
who Batman is
and how he came to be.

1494
01:07:42,319 --> 01:07:44,886
It's the first origin film
of Batman.

1495
01:07:44,930 --> 01:07:47,280
Batman's origin
is just tremendous.

1496
01:07:47,324 --> 01:07:49,152
It's so emotional
and so effective

1497
01:07:49,195 --> 01:07:51,110
and so effectively done
by Chris Nolan

1498
01:07:51,154 --> 01:07:53,330
that almost that decision alone

1499
01:07:53,373 --> 01:07:55,201
gave him three quarters
of his movie.

1500
01:07:55,245 --> 01:07:57,334
Chris Nolan
approached these movies

1501
01:07:57,377 --> 01:07:59,858
almost like a John Ford
or Howard Hawks.

1502
01:07:59,901 --> 01:08:03,644
As a single relentless avenger

1503
01:08:03,688 --> 01:08:06,125
trying to find out who he is
and what he's about.

1504
01:08:20,966 --> 01:08:22,881
The work that
Denny and I had done

1505
01:08:22,924 --> 01:08:25,144
influenced that first movie,

1506
01:08:25,188 --> 01:08:27,146
and you could see it
right on the screen.

1507
01:08:30,367 --> 01:08:33,674
Of the DC movies
that had been made,

1508
01:08:33,718 --> 01:08:35,850
that first of those three,

1509
01:08:35,894 --> 01:08:38,549
just killer,
it's a killer movie.

1510
01:08:38,592 --> 01:08:40,116
The
achievement ofBatman Begins

1511
01:08:40,159 --> 01:08:41,726
can't be underestimated.

1512
01:08:41,769 --> 01:08:43,206
Christopher Nolan's
a brilliant filmmaker.

1513
01:08:43,249 --> 01:08:45,033
Start with that.

1514
01:08:45,077 --> 01:08:47,514
And watch the movie unfold
the way he tells the story.

1515
01:08:47,558 --> 01:08:50,300
The use of practical effects
in camera

1516
01:08:50,343 --> 01:08:53,781
to get away from CGI
whenever possible

1517
01:08:53,825 --> 01:08:56,175
not because
it's a financial issue

1518
01:08:56,219 --> 01:08:57,655
but because
of the aesthetic issues

1519
01:08:57,698 --> 01:09:01,572
and you've got a street level
version of Batman

1520
01:09:01,615 --> 01:09:03,008
that everybody in the world

1521
01:09:03,051 --> 01:09:07,447
except perhaps Joel Schumacher
was ready for.

1522
01:09:07,491 --> 01:09:09,884
LikeSuperman
and X-Men before it,

1523
01:09:09,928 --> 01:09:12,191
Batman Begins
featured an abundance

1524
01:09:12,235 --> 01:09:15,151
of acting talent
to portray major roles.

1525
01:09:15,194 --> 01:09:18,154
Alongside acclaimed but
little-known British actor

1526
01:09:18,197 --> 01:09:20,025
Christian Bale
as Bruce Wayne,

1527
01:09:20,068 --> 01:09:23,202
were Liam Neeson,
Michael Caine, Gary Oldman

1528
01:09:23,246 --> 01:09:25,335
and many other
esteemed actors

1529
01:09:25,378 --> 01:09:29,165
in one of the most impressive
ensemble casts ever assembled.

1530
01:09:29,208 --> 01:09:31,906
This leant the film
considerable dramatic weight,

1531
01:09:31,950 --> 01:09:33,560
and upon its release,

1532
01:09:33,604 --> 01:09:35,693
it immediately set
a new benchmark

1533
01:09:35,736 --> 01:09:38,130
for superhero cinema.

1534
01:09:38,174 --> 01:09:41,307
Batman Beginsblew my mind
when it came out.

1535
01:09:41,351 --> 01:09:42,874
I knew who Christian Bale was

1536
01:09:42,917 --> 01:09:44,745
so I was excited to see
what he did with it.

1537
01:09:44,789 --> 01:09:46,312
But I had no idea.

1538
01:09:46,356 --> 01:09:48,053
And I knew some Nolan stuff

1539
01:09:48,096 --> 01:09:51,230
But I didn't know
it was going to be that.

1540
01:09:51,274 --> 01:09:54,712
He was so good
and the story was so dark

1541
01:09:54,755 --> 01:09:56,888
and so grounded
in reality.

1542
01:09:56,931 --> 01:09:59,456
That was a whole new thing
for comic book movies.

1543
01:10:03,764 --> 01:10:05,462
A storm's coming.

1544
01:10:10,118 --> 01:10:13,426
The scum is getting jumpy
because you stood up to Falcone.

1545
01:10:13,470 --> 01:10:14,949
It's a start.

1546
01:10:14,993 --> 01:10:17,952
Commission Loeb set up a massive
task force to catch you.

1547
01:10:17,996 --> 01:10:19,867
He thinks you're dangerous.

1548
01:10:19,911 --> 01:10:22,479
What do you think?

1549
01:10:22,522 --> 01:10:24,394
I think you're trying to help.

1550
01:10:30,313 --> 01:10:31,792
But I've been wrong before.

1551
01:10:31,836 --> 01:10:34,360
Nolan wasn't a huge comic geek.

1552
01:10:34,404 --> 01:10:37,276
And he wasn't coming at it from
the point of view of some fan

1553
01:10:37,320 --> 01:10:39,365
who got his chance
to make what he wanted.

1554
01:10:39,409 --> 01:10:42,194
He was looking at it like
a serious dramatic filmmaker

1555
01:10:42,238 --> 01:10:44,979
who had an opportunity
to take this thing

1556
01:10:45,023 --> 01:10:46,938
and make it real.

1557
01:10:46,981 --> 01:10:49,723
Nolan's Batmans
were the first time

1558
01:10:49,767 --> 01:10:53,466
that someone approached
superhero mythology

1559
01:10:53,510 --> 01:10:56,730
as a legitimate
dramatic narrative.

1560
01:10:56,774 --> 01:11:00,038
I give Warners and Nolan a
lot of credit for committing

1561
01:11:00,081 --> 01:11:02,606
to the degree that they did
to bring that real

1562
01:11:02,649 --> 01:11:04,477
'cause I think there's
a whole generation of people

1563
01:11:04,521 --> 01:11:06,566
that that's their version
of Batman.

1564
01:11:06,610 --> 01:11:08,829
It was defining.

1565
01:11:08,873 --> 01:11:10,440
Batman Begins
helped to bring

1566
01:11:10,483 --> 01:11:12,268
a new level of respect

1567
01:11:12,311 --> 01:11:16,315
both to superhero films and
to comic books themselves.

1568
01:11:16,359 --> 01:11:18,709
The year of its
release, 2005,

1569
01:11:18,752 --> 01:11:21,146
also saw
comic book adaptations

1570
01:11:21,189 --> 01:11:22,713
compete for the first time
at Cannes,

1571
01:11:22,756 --> 01:11:26,194
the most prestigious
international film festival.

1572
01:11:26,238 --> 01:11:28,980
Sin City, directed
by Robert Rodriguez

1573
01:11:29,023 --> 01:11:30,590
andA History of Violence,

1574
01:11:30,634 --> 01:11:33,854
by veteran Canadian filmmaker
David Cronenberg,

1575
01:11:33,898 --> 01:11:36,335
continued in the tradition
of earlier films

1576
01:11:36,379 --> 01:11:38,119
Road to Perdition
and Ghost World

1577
01:11:38,163 --> 01:11:40,992
in demonstrating that
comic books were an artform

1578
01:11:41,035 --> 01:11:43,386
to be taken seriously.

1579
01:11:43,429 --> 01:11:45,257
The things that came out

1580
01:11:45,301 --> 01:11:47,172
that weren't
superhero based

1581
01:11:47,215 --> 01:11:49,609
really showed a lot of people
who don't read comics

1582
01:11:49,653 --> 01:11:51,829
that it was more
than guys in Spandex.

1583
01:11:51,872 --> 01:11:55,223
I think it made people take
the medium more seriously.

1584
01:11:55,267 --> 01:11:57,835
That it wasn't just
the pulp stories.

1585
01:11:57,878 --> 01:12:01,578
That it was that you could tell
a really beautiful narrative

1586
01:12:01,621 --> 01:12:03,797
and you had another layer to it.

1587
01:12:03,841 --> 01:12:05,843
You had the visuals.

1588
01:12:05,886 --> 01:12:10,021
The urgency of
truly high quality comic books

1589
01:12:10,064 --> 01:12:11,805
starts coming across.

1590
01:12:11,849 --> 01:12:13,981
Road to Perdition,
in particular,

1591
01:12:14,025 --> 01:12:15,896
I think it's fantastic
that people don't know

1592
01:12:15,940 --> 01:12:19,726
that's based on a comic book.
I love to tell them and say,

1593
01:12:19,770 --> 01:12:22,338
"Oh, it's a very
faithful adaptation as well."

1594
01:12:22,381 --> 01:12:23,991
You see them
scratch their heads.

1595
01:12:24,035 --> 01:12:27,995
That doubt of their sense
of what a comic book is

1596
01:12:28,039 --> 01:12:33,000
is what led to all the great
things that have happened since.

1597
01:12:33,044 --> 01:12:35,263
Yet in the years
immediately following

1598
01:12:35,307 --> 01:12:39,050
the release of Batman Begins,
the genre still seemed shaky.

1599
01:12:39,093 --> 01:12:42,183
Marvel adaptations continued
to flounder,

1600
01:12:42,227 --> 01:12:45,622
with Elektra,
Ghost Rider and a Fantastic Four sequel

1601
01:12:45,665 --> 01:12:48,407
all receiving
a lukewarm reception,

1602
01:12:48,451 --> 01:12:50,627
while third films
in proven series

1603
01:12:50,670 --> 01:12:54,500
X-Men and Spider-Man
disappointed fans.

1604
01:12:54,544 --> 01:12:56,110
Behind the
scenes, however,

1605
01:12:56,154 --> 01:12:59,505
Marvel was looking to take
its fate into its own hands.

1606
01:12:59,549 --> 01:13:03,074
In the 90s Marvel
was licensing its properties

1607
01:13:03,117 --> 01:13:04,684
to a variety
of different studios.

1608
01:13:04,728 --> 01:13:08,122
So, for example,
Paramount had Iron Man,

1609
01:13:08,166 --> 01:13:10,342
Thor, Captain America,

1610
01:13:10,386 --> 01:13:11,909
I think it might have had
Black Panther at the time.

1611
01:13:11,952 --> 01:13:15,695
Fox had the X-Men
universe of course.

1612
01:13:15,739 --> 01:13:18,437
Sony had Spider-Man,
Universal had The Hulk.

1613
01:13:18,481 --> 01:13:22,963
But in the mid-2000s, led by
a guy called David Maisel

1614
01:13:23,007 --> 01:13:25,444
Marvel decided
they would try and employ

1615
01:13:25,488 --> 01:13:28,534
a different model
of movie-making.

1616
01:13:28,578 --> 01:13:31,189
Maisel suggested
that Marvel develop

1617
01:13:31,232 --> 01:13:33,191
and produce
films in-house,

1618
01:13:33,234 --> 01:13:35,541
become a production company
in its own right

1619
01:13:35,585 --> 01:13:38,196
and maintain creative
and financial control

1620
01:13:38,239 --> 01:13:40,198
over its own properties.

1621
01:13:40,241 --> 01:13:41,895
It was a risky move,

1622
01:13:41,939 --> 01:13:45,116
as it required the company to
secure substantial funding,

1623
01:13:45,159 --> 01:13:46,900
yet Marvel
pressed forward,

1624
01:13:46,944 --> 01:13:48,467
with the rights
to only a handful

1625
01:13:48,511 --> 01:13:50,730
of its more
prominent characters.

1626
01:13:50,774 --> 01:13:53,951
In 2007,
they moved into production,

1627
01:13:53,994 --> 01:13:56,170
and under the stewardship
of David Maisel

1628
01:13:56,214 --> 01:13:58,346
and Marvel producer
Kevin Feige,

1629
01:13:58,390 --> 01:14:01,262
soon announced their
upcoming plans to the press.

1630
01:14:01,306 --> 01:14:03,308
I had published a story

1631
01:14:03,351 --> 01:14:05,353
that was on the front page of
the LA Times business section.

1632
01:14:05,397 --> 01:14:08,400
It had a picture of the Hulk
and Thor and Iron Man.

1633
01:14:08,444 --> 01:14:11,055
This was before
the first Iron Man film.

1634
01:14:11,098 --> 01:14:13,536
And the headline
was "The B-Team".

1635
01:14:13,579 --> 01:14:15,146
This was notX-Men,

1636
01:14:15,189 --> 01:14:16,800
the best-selling
comic book in America.

1637
01:14:16,843 --> 01:14:18,192
This was notSpider-Man.

1638
01:14:18,236 --> 01:14:21,369
These characters
weren't as well-known.

1639
01:14:21,413 --> 01:14:26,331
But there's nothing wrong
with being an unknown

1640
01:14:26,374 --> 01:14:29,552
as long as you make
a good first impression.

1641
01:14:29,595 --> 01:14:31,684
In 2008, the pressure

1642
01:14:31,728 --> 01:14:33,294
for that first impression

1643
01:14:33,338 --> 01:14:35,645
fell on the shoulders
of Iron Man

1644
01:14:35,688 --> 01:14:37,516
and his alter
ego Tony Stark,

1645
01:14:37,560 --> 01:14:39,170
the hero who would front

1646
01:14:39,213 --> 01:14:42,390
the debut release
from Marvel Studios.

1647
01:14:42,434 --> 01:14:44,567
Like Blade
a decade beforehand,

1648
01:14:44,610 --> 01:14:46,917
once again
this was a character

1649
01:14:46,960 --> 01:14:49,049
with little
audience recognition,

1650
01:14:49,093 --> 01:14:50,660
although comic
book readers

1651
01:14:50,703 --> 01:14:52,270
had been following
his adventures

1652
01:14:52,313 --> 01:14:55,969
since Stan Lee created him
back in 1963.

1653
01:14:56,013 --> 01:14:57,797
When Marvel got into

1654
01:14:57,841 --> 01:14:59,190
its second-tier
characters

1655
01:14:59,233 --> 01:15:01,061
comic book fans, of course,
knew who they were

1656
01:15:01,105 --> 01:15:03,020
but the broader audience didn't.

1657
01:15:03,063 --> 01:15:05,283
In advance of the Iron Man
film coming out

1658
01:15:05,326 --> 01:15:06,893
there was
a big publicity campaign

1659
01:15:06,937 --> 01:15:09,243
to make sure that people
knew he wasn't a robot.

1660
01:15:09,287 --> 01:15:11,028
Of course, comic book fans
already knew that.

1661
01:15:11,071 --> 01:15:13,378
Iron Man's an interesting
character and very timely.

1662
01:15:13,421 --> 01:15:14,727
He was a character born

1663
01:15:14,771 --> 01:15:16,163
as the United States
was getting ready

1664
01:15:16,207 --> 01:15:18,078
to go to war in Vietnam.

1665
01:15:18,122 --> 01:15:19,863
He was a character
that came out

1666
01:15:19,906 --> 01:15:21,821
of the military
industrial complex.

1667
01:15:21,865 --> 01:15:24,998
Tony Stark working
as a defense contractor

1668
01:15:25,042 --> 01:15:27,871
with the government,
wounded in Vietnam,

1669
01:15:27,914 --> 01:15:29,655
and builds this
Iron Man suit

1670
01:15:29,699 --> 01:15:32,397
because he's so brilliant
with technology.

1671
01:15:32,440 --> 01:15:34,747
That's easily adapted
to our own age

1672
01:15:34,791 --> 01:15:38,359
where the United States
is in Vietnam-like wars,

1673
01:15:38,403 --> 01:15:40,579
in Afghanistan and Iraq
at the time.

1674
01:15:40,623 --> 01:15:42,755
Once again we had
this tension between

1675
01:15:42,799 --> 01:15:44,801
trying to master
this technology

1676
01:15:44,844 --> 01:15:48,282
but yet someone who feels
apart from that as well.

1677
01:15:48,326 --> 01:15:51,547
He's still part of that
military industrial complex.

1678
01:15:51,590 --> 01:15:53,157
But he makes it clear that

1679
01:15:53,200 --> 01:15:55,463
he's going to turn attention
elsewhere and help people.

1680
01:15:57,640 --> 01:16:00,817
I saw young Americans killed

1681
01:16:00,860 --> 01:16:04,864
by the very weapons I created
to defend and protect them.

1682
01:16:06,474 --> 01:16:09,129
And I saw that I...

1683
01:16:09,173 --> 01:16:10,740
...had become part of a system

1684
01:16:10,783 --> 01:16:14,047
that is comfortable
with zero accountability.

1685
01:16:17,007 --> 01:16:19,575
What happened over there?

1686
01:16:19,618 --> 01:16:21,751
I had my eyes open.

1687
01:16:21,794 --> 01:16:23,927
I came to realize
that I had more

1688
01:16:23,970 --> 01:16:26,669
to offer this world

1689
01:16:26,712 --> 01:16:28,714
than just making things
to blow up.

1690
01:16:28,758 --> 01:16:30,890
That is why,
effective immediately,

1691
01:16:30,934 --> 01:16:33,719
I am shutting down
the weapons manufacture...

1692
01:16:35,634 --> 01:16:38,463
For a technology
obsessed culture

1693
01:16:38,506 --> 01:16:42,206
you really can't get
a better superhero than Iron Man

1694
01:16:42,249 --> 01:16:43,816
to play to these tensions,

1695
01:16:43,860 --> 01:16:46,776
this love-hate
or love-fear relationship

1696
01:16:46,819 --> 01:16:48,604
that we all have
with technology.

1697
01:16:52,999 --> 01:16:54,305
Jarvis, are you there?

1698
01:16:54,348 --> 01:16:56,263
At your service, sir.

1699
01:16:56,307 --> 01:16:57,961
Gaugeheadsupdisplay.

1700
01:16:58,004 --> 01:16:59,136
Check.

1701
01:16:59,179 --> 01:17:00,964
All preferences
from home interface.

1702
01:17:01,007 --> 01:17:02,705
Will do, sir.

1703
01:17:02,748 --> 01:17:05,577
I know Iron
Man was sort of risky

1704
01:17:05,621 --> 01:17:08,493
because people didn't know
who that character was.

1705
01:17:08,536 --> 01:17:12,236
But I was really excited
and the reason was...

1706
01:17:12,279 --> 01:17:16,501
...I feel that with something
like Batman or Captain America

1707
01:17:16,544 --> 01:17:20,070
there was this feeling that
you're not going to do it right.

1708
01:17:20,113 --> 01:17:23,639
You're going to mess up
my Captain America, my Batman.

1709
01:17:23,682 --> 01:17:27,077
Where Iron Man, because a lot of
people didn't know who he was,

1710
01:17:27,120 --> 01:17:29,906
you could go in and pretty much
do anything you want.

1711
01:17:29,949 --> 01:17:31,385
So it was a brilliant move.

1712
01:17:37,609 --> 01:17:40,264
If you're going to launch
a cinematic universe

1713
01:17:40,307 --> 01:17:42,745
that is completely unique,

1714
01:17:42,788 --> 01:17:45,095
you got to do it with somebody
that no one knows.

1715
01:17:45,138 --> 01:17:47,271
But casting
somebody no one knows

1716
01:17:47,314 --> 01:17:49,229
was not an option.

1717
01:17:49,273 --> 01:17:50,927
Bringing on board
a familiar actor

1718
01:17:50,970 --> 01:17:52,363
to play Tony Stark

1719
01:17:52,406 --> 01:17:54,321
was crucial
to the film's success

1720
01:17:54,365 --> 01:17:57,411
Marvel approached Robert
Downey Jr. for the role.

1721
01:17:57,455 --> 01:18:01,241
An Oscar-winning actor
who had emerged in the 1980s

1722
01:18:01,285 --> 01:18:02,678
and whose career
had been derailed

1723
01:18:02,721 --> 01:18:04,375
by substance abuse issues

1724
01:18:04,418 --> 01:18:06,333
and imprisonment
the following decade,

1725
01:18:06,377 --> 01:18:08,031
by the time of Iron Man

1726
01:18:08,074 --> 01:18:09,815
his career was
on the rise once again,

1727
01:18:09,859 --> 01:18:12,470
and he proved
the perfect choice.

1728
01:18:12,513 --> 01:18:14,298
This is the
role of a lifetime for him.

1729
01:18:14,341 --> 01:18:16,648
A lot of people thought
Chaplin was.

1730
01:18:16,692 --> 01:18:18,215
I think this guy was born
to be Tony Stark.

1731
01:18:18,258 --> 01:18:21,261
Robert's grown up
in the public eye.

1732
01:18:21,305 --> 01:18:23,481
Everything good and bad
that's happened in his life

1733
01:18:23,524 --> 01:18:25,135
everybody's seen.

1734
01:18:25,178 --> 01:18:27,964
And Tony Stark is a guy who's
also grown up in the public eye.

1735
01:18:28,007 --> 01:18:30,749
He's a genius. Everybody
appreciates his talent.

1736
01:18:30,793 --> 01:18:32,490
It made sense to have

1737
01:18:32,533 --> 01:18:33,926
Robert Downey
Jr. do this.

1738
01:18:33,970 --> 01:18:35,972
He has a history
with substance abuse

1739
01:18:36,015 --> 01:18:38,888
and Iron Man has a history
with substance abuse.

1740
01:18:38,931 --> 01:18:41,020
Robert Downey Jr.
had gone through some stuff.

1741
01:18:41,064 --> 01:18:43,109
He was still
a well-respected actor

1742
01:18:43,153 --> 01:18:46,417
but his career wasn't
flourishing the way it is now.

1743
01:18:46,460 --> 01:18:49,028
So I think what he did
for Iron Man,

1744
01:18:49,072 --> 01:18:50,987
Iron Mandid for him.

1745
01:18:51,030 --> 01:18:52,945
Tony Stark
is a brilliant character.

1746
01:18:52,989 --> 01:18:55,774
In a way he's sort
of comparable to Batman

1747
01:18:55,818 --> 01:18:57,907
in the sense that he
is a multi-millionaire

1748
01:18:57,950 --> 01:18:59,299
and he's a genius.

1749
01:18:59,343 --> 01:19:00,779
But that was part
of the appeal

1750
01:19:00,823 --> 01:19:03,086
because the darkness
in Batmanis fantastic

1751
01:19:03,129 --> 01:19:04,914
and that works for him.

1752
01:19:04,957 --> 01:19:07,220
But what worked for Iron
Man is he was really funny.

1753
01:19:07,264 --> 01:19:10,006
- Hello, Tony. Remember me?
- Sure don't.

1754
01:19:10,049 --> 01:19:12,008
You cast Robert Downey Jr.

1755
01:19:12,051 --> 01:19:14,271
who had famously
had his own problems

1756
01:19:14,314 --> 01:19:15,794
who's not a teenager.

1757
01:19:15,838 --> 01:19:17,753
There was no way
anyone thought

1758
01:19:17,796 --> 01:19:19,363
that movie was
only for kids.

1759
01:19:19,406 --> 01:19:20,799
It took on big themes.

1760
01:19:20,843 --> 01:19:22,540
It had scenes
set in Afghanistan.

1761
01:19:22,583 --> 01:19:23,759
It had Jeff Bridges in it.

1762
01:19:23,802 --> 01:19:26,326
There's a lot
going on in that movie.

1763
01:19:26,370 --> 01:19:28,285
Iron Man
was successfully sold

1764
01:19:28,328 --> 01:19:30,374
as a comic book
superhero movie

1765
01:19:30,417 --> 01:19:32,419
to people that otherwise
might be embarrassed

1766
01:19:32,463 --> 01:19:34,291
to go to a comic book
superhero movie.

1767
01:19:34,334 --> 01:19:36,554
It had adult movie stars.

1768
01:19:36,597 --> 01:19:40,601
Robert Downey Jr., Gwyneth
Paltrow, Jeff Bridges.

1769
01:19:40,645 --> 01:19:43,604
This was almost a prestigious
comic book picture.

1770
01:19:43,648 --> 01:19:45,955
right alongside
Batman Begins.

1771
01:19:45,998 --> 01:19:48,218
It comes out
beginning of May,

1772
01:19:48,261 --> 01:19:50,698
shocks everyone
by doing $102 million

1773
01:19:50,742 --> 01:19:52,048
on opening weekend.

1774
01:19:52,091 --> 01:19:53,832
Second biggest opening
for a non-sequel ever

1775
01:19:53,876 --> 01:19:55,660
beyond Spider-Man.

1776
01:19:55,703 --> 01:19:57,880
That Monday
Marvel comes out and said,

1777
01:19:57,923 --> 01:20:00,578
"OK, here's what
we're doing next."

1778
01:20:00,621 --> 01:20:02,275
Marvel publicly announced

1779
01:20:02,319 --> 01:20:03,929
an ambitious
production slate

1780
01:20:03,973 --> 01:20:05,626
that aimed
to release solo films

1781
01:20:05,670 --> 01:20:07,846
for all of
its key characters,

1782
01:20:07,890 --> 01:20:11,676
culminating in a team
film The Avengers.

1783
01:20:11,719 --> 01:20:15,549
And while its other release
of 2008,The Incredible Hulk,

1784
01:20:15,593 --> 01:20:17,943
proved less successful
than Iron Man,

1785
01:20:17,987 --> 01:20:20,467
the studio was confident
it could bring superheroes

1786
01:20:20,511 --> 01:20:23,906
to the screen
like never before.

1787
01:20:23,949 --> 01:20:27,257
As Marvel enjoyed
the first of many successes,

1788
01:20:27,300 --> 01:20:31,130
DC's frontrunner returned to
movie theatres once again.

1789
01:20:31,174 --> 01:20:34,003
And whereBatman Begins had
created a new benchmark

1790
01:20:34,046 --> 01:20:35,482
for comic book
adaptations,

1791
01:20:35,526 --> 01:20:38,790
The Dark Knight
was a far bleaker sequel

1792
01:20:38,834 --> 01:20:40,096
that saw
Christopher Nolan

1793
01:20:40,139 --> 01:20:41,532
continue to push
the boundaries

1794
01:20:41,575 --> 01:20:43,055
of fantasy cinema

1795
01:20:43,099 --> 01:20:45,841
and brought Batman's
arch-nemesis the Joker

1796
01:20:45,884 --> 01:20:47,886
back onto the big screen.

1797
01:20:47,930 --> 01:20:49,583
This role
would be immortalized

1798
01:20:49,627 --> 01:20:51,977
by Australian actor
Heath Ledger,

1799
01:20:52,021 --> 01:20:55,720
who died just months
before the film's release.

1800
01:20:55,763 --> 01:20:57,461
The darkness
of The Dark Knight,

1801
01:20:57,504 --> 01:21:01,247
was fairly surprising.
It really went to places that

1802
01:21:01,291 --> 01:21:03,380
maybe you'd expect
a crime thriller to go to

1803
01:21:03,423 --> 01:21:05,425
more than a comic book movie.

1804
01:21:05,469 --> 01:21:07,906
But I think that had been
seeded in Batman Begins

1805
01:21:07,950 --> 01:21:10,822
taking this much more
realistic and gritty approach

1806
01:21:10,866 --> 01:21:13,346
to the character,
setting it in a Gotham

1807
01:21:13,390 --> 01:21:16,219
that felt much more
like a crime-ridden city

1808
01:21:16,262 --> 01:21:18,395
than a comic
book metropolis.

1809
01:21:18,438 --> 01:21:22,486
People were really excited
to see a Batman-Joker story

1810
01:21:22,529 --> 01:21:24,705
set in that world

1811
01:21:24,749 --> 01:21:27,621
with the cool casting
of Heath Ledger

1812
01:21:27,665 --> 01:21:30,886
as a pretty creepy
looking Joker.

1813
01:21:30,929 --> 01:21:33,279
Keep in mind the preview
came out before he died

1814
01:21:33,323 --> 01:21:35,455
so we already had a decent idea

1815
01:21:35,499 --> 01:21:36,804
of what kind of Joker
he would be.

1816
01:21:40,896 --> 01:21:44,900
You see, this is how crazy
Batman's made Gotham.

1817
01:21:44,943 --> 01:21:47,206
If you want order
in Gotham,

1818
01:21:47,250 --> 01:21:52,211
Batman must take off his mask
and turn himself in.

1819
01:21:52,255 --> 01:21:55,823
Oh, and every day he doesn't,
people will die.

1820
01:21:55,867 --> 01:21:57,956
There was
a lot of interest in it

1821
01:21:58,000 --> 01:22:01,133
because it was Heath Ledger's
final complete role on film.

1822
01:22:04,702 --> 01:22:06,704
He was obviously
an actor of interest.

1823
01:22:06,747 --> 01:22:09,576
He was Oscar nominated
for Brokeback Mountain,

1824
01:22:09,620 --> 01:22:13,580
so he was someone who
was clearly taken seriously

1825
01:22:13,624 --> 01:22:15,147
butThe Dark Knight
showed him

1826
01:22:15,191 --> 01:22:16,757
in a completely
different light.

1827
01:22:16,801 --> 01:22:19,325
I genuinely believe
that if he hadn't died,

1828
01:22:19,369 --> 01:22:21,414
people would have still been
as blown away

1829
01:22:21,458 --> 01:22:22,807
and interested
in that performance.

1830
01:22:28,160 --> 01:22:31,337
Come on, come on.
I want you to do it.

1831
01:22:31,381 --> 01:22:32,512
Come on.

1832
01:22:33,687 --> 01:22:34,688
Come on.

1833
01:22:36,255 --> 01:22:39,041
Come on, come on.
I want you to do it.

1834
01:22:39,084 --> 01:22:41,478
Come on, hit me.
Come on, hit me!

1835
01:22:43,567 --> 01:22:45,351
Hit me!

1836
01:22:47,049 --> 01:22:49,138
You just don't see
many performances like that,

1837
01:22:49,181 --> 01:22:52,184
especially in terms of
villains in superhero films

1838
01:22:52,228 --> 01:22:53,490
that are kind
of so intense.

1839
01:22:53,533 --> 01:22:56,188
It clearly dug so deep
into that character

1840
01:22:56,232 --> 01:22:57,885
and was really
quite terrifying.

1841
01:22:57,929 --> 01:23:00,018
And that's obviously
one of the main things

1842
01:23:00,062 --> 01:23:02,064
that people remember and love
about The Dark Knight,

1843
01:23:02,107 --> 01:23:04,153
Heath Ledger's performance.

1844
01:23:04,196 --> 01:23:05,719
If Stanley
Kubrick had lived long enough

1845
01:23:05,763 --> 01:23:07,025
to do a superhero movie

1846
01:23:07,069 --> 01:23:08,461
it would have been
The Dark Knight.

1847
01:23:08,505 --> 01:23:11,464
It was the first time
that someone committed

1848
01:23:11,508 --> 01:23:13,031
to the resources
you'd need

1849
01:23:13,075 --> 01:23:16,948
to take comics out
of the pop culture class.

1850
01:23:16,992 --> 01:23:18,515
It wasn't
an amazing comic book flick.

1851
01:23:18,558 --> 01:23:20,082
It was an amazing movie

1852
01:23:20,125 --> 01:23:22,040
that happened to be about
a comic book character.

1853
01:23:22,084 --> 01:23:23,520
And there's a big difference.

1854
01:23:23,563 --> 01:23:25,130
The performances
are amazing.

1855
01:23:25,174 --> 01:23:27,306
And the caliber of talent
he would surround himself

1856
01:23:27,350 --> 01:23:29,917
to do those films
is staggering.

1857
01:23:29,961 --> 01:23:31,267
With a
director like Nolan,

1858
01:23:31,310 --> 01:23:34,226
producing these
incredibly cinematic movies,

1859
01:23:34,270 --> 01:23:35,793
it's not that surprising

1860
01:23:35,836 --> 01:23:38,361
that these were really
the first superhero movies

1861
01:23:38,404 --> 01:23:41,929
that were seriously considered
for awards glory.

1862
01:23:41,973 --> 01:23:45,542
Heath Ledger was awarded the
Oscar for his performance

1863
01:23:45,585 --> 01:23:47,239
after he'd died.

1864
01:23:47,283 --> 01:23:49,894
Although none of those movies
were nominated for Best Picture,

1865
01:23:49,937 --> 01:23:51,983
there was a bit of an outcry
that they should be -

1866
01:23:52,027 --> 01:23:53,767
why shouldn't we take these,

1867
01:23:53,811 --> 01:23:55,639
not only seriously
within their own worlds,

1868
01:23:55,682 --> 01:24:00,252
but why shouldn't this be taken
seriously as a piece of cinema?

1869
01:24:00,296 --> 01:24:02,341
And following
the success of Iron Man

1870
01:24:02,385 --> 01:24:03,951
and The Dark Knight,

1871
01:24:03,995 --> 01:24:06,215
comic book adaptations
spread like a hurricane

1872
01:24:06,258 --> 01:24:07,912
through popular culture.

1873
01:24:07,955 --> 01:24:10,045
Studios desperately raced

1874
01:24:10,088 --> 01:24:11,829
to find new characters
and titles

1875
01:24:11,872 --> 01:24:13,483
to bring to the
big screen,

1876
01:24:13,526 --> 01:24:16,268
while Iron Man returned
for a successful sequel

1877
01:24:16,312 --> 01:24:18,618
and Hugh Jackman's Wolverine
was pulled from the wreck

1878
01:24:18,662 --> 01:24:20,490
of the X-Men series

1879
01:24:20,533 --> 01:24:23,058
to star in his own
cinematic adventures.

1880
01:24:23,101 --> 01:24:25,495
Having signed
a lucrative buyout deal

1881
01:24:25,538 --> 01:24:27,932
with Disney in 2011,

1882
01:24:27,975 --> 01:24:30,804
Marvel Studios returned with
the next two installments

1883
01:24:30,848 --> 01:24:32,284
of its cinematic canon.

1884
01:24:32,328 --> 01:24:34,765
The first of these
to be released was Thor,

1885
01:24:34,808 --> 01:24:37,463
and like Iron Man
this represented

1886
01:24:37,507 --> 01:24:40,075
the character's
big screen debut.

1887
01:24:40,118 --> 01:24:42,251
Thor is a god of thunder

1888
01:24:42,294 --> 01:24:45,950
who has this enormously powerful
weapon of mass destruction

1889
01:24:45,993 --> 01:24:47,865
that only he can pick up

1890
01:24:47,908 --> 01:24:52,261
because he is the only person
worthy of lifting this burden.

1891
01:24:52,304 --> 01:24:53,697
I think that
Marvel comics,

1892
01:24:53,740 --> 01:24:55,394
with Stan Lee
and Jack Kirby again,

1893
01:24:55,438 --> 01:24:58,267
were able to tap into this
other realm of gods that

1894
01:24:58,310 --> 01:25:01,183
we don't really study
in Western culture.

1895
01:25:01,226 --> 01:25:02,967
We have our Greeks
and our Romans

1896
01:25:03,010 --> 01:25:05,448
but the Norse gods
are very cool.

1897
01:25:05,491 --> 01:25:08,015
A god of thunder who
makes thunder with a hammer

1898
01:25:08,059 --> 01:25:09,539
and can shoot
lightning bolts.

1899
01:25:09,582 --> 01:25:11,976
That's something
we hadn't seen before.

1900
01:25:12,019 --> 01:25:15,022
Despite the character's
longevity in the comics world,

1901
01:25:15,066 --> 01:25:17,199
he again seemed
a risky prospect

1902
01:25:17,242 --> 01:25:18,939
for a wider audience.

1903
01:25:18,983 --> 01:25:21,594
Yet Marvel Studios,
and its mastermind,

1904
01:25:21,638 --> 01:25:23,988
President of Production
Kevin Feige,

1905
01:25:24,031 --> 01:25:27,426
were confident that they
could makeThor a hit.

1906
01:25:27,470 --> 01:25:30,299
With veteran British actor
and filmmaker Kenneth Branagh

1907
01:25:30,342 --> 01:25:32,214
on board
to direct the project,

1908
01:25:32,257 --> 01:25:35,130
they even altered their
tried-and-tested formula

1909
01:25:35,173 --> 01:25:37,306
and cast unknown
Australian actor

1910
01:25:37,349 --> 01:25:41,484
Chris Hemsworth to portray
this equally unfamiliar hero

1911
01:25:41,527 --> 01:25:44,617
Just the idea that
you have Norse mythology

1912
01:25:44,661 --> 01:25:46,837
with Shakespearean prose

1913
01:25:46,880 --> 01:25:51,058
in this fantastical,
crazy Jack Kirby on acid world.

1914
01:25:51,102 --> 01:25:52,712
I remember when
they announced the movie.

1915
01:25:52,756 --> 01:25:54,627
I was like, "How the hell
are they going to...?"

1916
01:25:54,671 --> 01:25:56,847
Everything else
is so grounded in reality

1917
01:25:56,890 --> 01:25:58,544
and Thor is this one thing

1918
01:25:58,588 --> 01:26:00,416
that I just couldn't see
how it would fit.

1919
01:26:00,459 --> 01:26:03,201
When I first sat down
with the Marvel folk

1920
01:26:03,245 --> 01:26:05,638
they said, "This is the most
difficult property we have.

1921
01:26:05,682 --> 01:26:07,814
We have so many ways
to fail doing this."

1922
01:26:07,858 --> 01:26:09,599
I thought, "Well, that's great,
good start."

1923
01:26:09,642 --> 01:26:11,601
But when I looked this up
it said, what's the genre?

1924
01:26:11,644 --> 01:26:14,821
It said, action, sci-fi,
fantasy, adventure, drama.

1925
01:26:14,865 --> 01:26:16,823
That's a lot of categories,
isn't it?

1926
01:26:16,867 --> 01:26:20,697
I said, "I think it has all
those things in the comics.

1927
01:26:20,740 --> 01:26:23,003
The biggest challenge is tone."

1928
01:26:34,537 --> 01:26:37,279
Thor potentially on paper

1929
01:26:37,322 --> 01:26:38,889
is quite a
difficult sell.

1930
01:26:38,932 --> 01:26:42,240
And it is certainly stretching
the realms of believability.

1931
01:26:42,284 --> 01:26:46,157
While you've set up Iron Man
with this real world guy

1932
01:26:46,201 --> 01:26:48,333
who is looking
at real world issues

1933
01:26:48,377 --> 01:26:50,248
and is set
in a very real world way

1934
01:26:50,292 --> 01:26:51,728
and it's very serious,

1935
01:26:51,771 --> 01:26:53,164
it's like, and now we're going
to have a Norse god -

1936
01:26:53,208 --> 01:26:54,687
is quite a difficult sell.

1937
01:26:54,731 --> 01:26:58,430
What it did expertly
is it was really funny.

1938
01:27:02,391 --> 01:27:04,784
- This drink, I like it.
- I know, it's great, right?

1939
01:27:04,828 --> 01:27:05,829
Another!

1940
01:27:07,744 --> 01:27:10,181
Sorry. It was a little accident.

1941
01:27:13,271 --> 01:27:14,794
- What was that?
- It was delicious.

1942
01:27:14,838 --> 01:27:16,666
- I want another.
- You could have just said so.

1943
01:27:16,709 --> 01:27:19,321
- I just did.
- No, I mean ask, nicely.

1944
01:27:19,364 --> 01:27:23,107
- I meant no disrespect.
- Alright, no more smashing.

1945
01:27:23,150 --> 01:27:24,456
Deal?

1946
01:27:26,806 --> 01:27:28,199
You have my word.

1947
01:27:28,243 --> 01:27:29,853
Essentially,
it's a brilliant fantasy

1948
01:27:29,896 --> 01:27:32,203
fish out of water comedy

1949
01:27:32,247 --> 01:27:34,031
and didn't take itself
seriously at all.

1950
01:27:34,074 --> 01:27:36,860
Chris Hemsworth
was the perfect choice.

1951
01:27:43,823 --> 01:27:45,912
So is this
how you normally look?

1952
01:27:45,956 --> 01:27:48,132
More or less.

1953
01:27:48,175 --> 01:27:50,308
It's a good look.

1954
01:27:50,352 --> 01:27:52,179
Given how off the rails

1955
01:27:52,223 --> 01:27:53,311
Thor could have been,

1956
01:27:53,355 --> 01:27:55,139
I thought they did a great job.

1957
01:27:55,182 --> 01:27:57,097
And Hemsworth too.

1958
01:27:57,141 --> 01:27:59,404
That guy's no joke as an actor.

1959
01:27:59,448 --> 01:28:01,624
Like, yeah, he's big and yoked
and pretty and everything.

1960
01:28:01,667 --> 01:28:06,324
That guy's really good,
because that's a thankless role.

1961
01:28:06,368 --> 01:28:09,719
That could have been
so ridiculous and so stupid.

1962
01:28:09,762 --> 01:28:12,330
Although less
successful than Iron Man,

1963
01:28:12,374 --> 01:28:15,333
Thor proved
another box office draw,

1964
01:28:15,377 --> 01:28:17,335
and anticipation was now
running high

1965
01:28:17,379 --> 01:28:19,990
for Marvel's other
big release of 2011,

1966
01:28:20,033 --> 01:28:22,253
Captain America:
The First Avenger.

1967
01:28:22,297 --> 01:28:24,995
And this character
was the oldest Superhero

1968
01:28:25,038 --> 01:28:26,649
in the company's
repertoire,

1969
01:28:26,692 --> 01:28:30,348
a propaganda symbol dating
back to the early 1940s

1970
01:28:30,392 --> 01:28:33,569
and America's entrance
into the Second World War.

1971
01:28:33,612 --> 01:28:35,353
Captain America,
for my money,

1972
01:28:35,397 --> 01:28:37,224
is the most underrated
character of them all.

1973
01:28:37,268 --> 01:28:40,315
He was forged
in the crucible of World War II.

1974
01:28:40,358 --> 01:28:43,405
He was the first major
patriotic character.

1975
01:28:43,448 --> 01:28:46,408
He emerged
from the hand of Joe Simon

1976
01:28:46,451 --> 01:28:48,148
and the inks of Jack Kirby

1977
01:28:48,192 --> 01:28:50,760
and he was the guy who
was going to fight the Nazis

1978
01:28:50,803 --> 01:28:53,371
and whip them
six ways to Sunday.

1979
01:28:53,415 --> 01:28:55,547
The most ingenious idea

1980
01:28:55,591 --> 01:28:58,420
was the fact
that Stanley revived him

1981
01:28:58,463 --> 01:29:02,293
after all these other characters
had come out in the early 1960s

1982
01:29:02,337 --> 01:29:04,382
in The Avengers
comic book.

1983
01:29:04,426 --> 01:29:06,297
And he reintroduced him

1984
01:29:06,341 --> 01:29:08,212
in a state
of suspended animation.

1985
01:29:08,255 --> 01:29:13,435
He brought him back and Captain
America had spent 20 years

1986
01:29:13,478 --> 01:29:15,262
outside of
American society.

1987
01:29:15,306 --> 01:29:17,352
He famously lost Bucky,
his companion.

1988
01:29:17,395 --> 01:29:19,005
He thought he could
have saved him.

1989
01:29:19,049 --> 01:29:20,703
He's become Hamlet.

1990
01:29:20,746 --> 01:29:22,618
He's become the superhero
as Hamlet.

1991
01:29:22,661 --> 01:29:25,142
He has an existential crisis.

1992
01:29:25,185 --> 01:29:27,710
Remaining true
to Stan Lee's concept,

1993
01:29:27,753 --> 01:29:29,712
Captain America:
The First Avenger

1994
01:29:29,755 --> 01:29:31,191
was an origin story

1995
01:29:31,235 --> 01:29:33,846
set primarily during
the second world war,

1996
01:29:33,890 --> 01:29:35,718
and introduced audiences
to the character

1997
01:29:35,761 --> 01:29:38,155
before his
present day revival.

1998
01:29:38,198 --> 01:29:39,504
With another
relative unknown

1999
01:29:39,548 --> 01:29:41,941
playing Captain America,
Chris Evans,

2000
01:29:41,985 --> 01:29:44,204
and action director
Joe Johnston at the helm,

2001
01:29:44,248 --> 01:29:46,119
despite wider
public recognition

2002
01:29:46,163 --> 01:29:47,686
of the title character,

2003
01:29:47,730 --> 01:29:51,255
once again the film
was no sure-fire hit.

2004
01:29:51,298 --> 01:29:54,301
Upon its release
it proved divisive.

2005
01:29:54,345 --> 01:29:55,868
When I first heard

2006
01:29:55,912 --> 01:29:58,001
they were going to have
a Captain America movie,

2007
01:29:58,044 --> 01:29:59,611
I was concerned

2008
01:29:59,655 --> 01:30:02,919
because he has in the past
been rather cheesy.

2009
01:30:02,962 --> 01:30:05,400
And he was created
as a propaganda thing.

2010
01:30:05,443 --> 01:30:08,620
So I feel like, especially with
a red, white and blue outfit,

2011
01:30:08,664 --> 01:30:10,187
that's hard to do.

2012
01:30:10,230 --> 01:30:13,408
I think the first film
really sold that.

2013
01:30:13,451 --> 01:30:15,453
It was very clear
that he was created,

2014
01:30:15,497 --> 01:30:17,281
that this costume
was created.

2015
01:30:17,324 --> 01:30:18,587
It wasn't his
idea to wear it.

2016
01:30:18,630 --> 01:30:20,545
I think
if they hadn't done that,

2017
01:30:20,589 --> 01:30:22,460
a lot of the movie
would have failed.

2018
01:30:22,504 --> 01:30:24,419
You know, the longest time
I dreamed about...

2019
01:30:26,029 --> 01:30:28,640
...coming overseas
and being on the frontline,

2020
01:30:29,902 --> 01:30:32,252
serving my country,

2021
01:30:32,296 --> 01:30:34,516
trying to get everything
I wanted...

2022
01:30:37,910 --> 01:30:39,999
...and I'm wearing tights.

2023
01:30:40,043 --> 01:30:41,740
In some ways,
Captain America is

2024
01:30:41,784 --> 01:30:44,221
the Superman
of the Marvel universe

2025
01:30:44,264 --> 01:30:45,788
in the sense that
he's this patriotic hero,

2026
01:30:45,831 --> 01:30:47,398
this all American guy.

2027
01:30:47,442 --> 01:30:49,139
But his story is arguably
not as interesting

2028
01:30:49,182 --> 01:30:52,055
and certainly in the first
Captain America movie

2029
01:30:52,098 --> 01:30:54,057
which many would argue

2030
01:30:54,100 --> 01:30:57,669
is one of the weakest
of the MCU films,

2031
01:30:57,713 --> 01:31:01,456
it was already a difficult
concept to get on board with,

2032
01:31:01,499 --> 01:31:03,719
particularly coming
on the heels of Tony Stark

2033
01:31:03,762 --> 01:31:07,113
who was such an interesting,
flawed hero.

2034
01:31:07,157 --> 01:31:10,639
A guy who's just nice and
wants to serve his country

2035
01:31:10,682 --> 01:31:14,077
didn't feel like something
easy to identify with.

2036
01:31:14,120 --> 01:31:16,514
Strangely for me,
the first half of the movie,

2037
01:31:16,558 --> 01:31:18,690
so the period setting,
was actually more enjoyable

2038
01:31:18,734 --> 01:31:20,300
when here was
this weedy little guy

2039
01:31:20,344 --> 01:31:21,519
who really wanted to do his best

2040
01:31:21,563 --> 01:31:23,347
and hanging out
with Peggy and Bucky.

2041
01:31:23,390 --> 01:31:25,871
Later when he becomes
this square-jawed

2042
01:31:25,915 --> 01:31:29,092
fairly boring,
dare I saw it, guy

2043
01:31:29,135 --> 01:31:30,702
it didn't really work.

2044
01:31:45,412 --> 01:31:47,980
For me, it
wasn't until Captain America

2045
01:31:48,024 --> 01:31:49,721
comes
and blows my socks off

2046
01:31:49,765 --> 01:31:52,332
then I go,
"OK, now I'm on board.

2047
01:31:52,376 --> 01:31:54,073
This movie's awesome."

2048
01:31:54,117 --> 01:31:56,685
This is the best working
story movie since...

2049
01:31:56,728 --> 01:31:59,688
It's up there with Batman
Begins, Spider-Man, Superman,

2050
01:31:59,731 --> 01:32:01,994
This is what I wanted out of
a Marvel comic book movie.

2051
01:32:02,038 --> 01:32:04,606
It is a full-fledged,
uncompromised

2052
01:32:04,649 --> 01:32:06,956
World War II
action adventure movie.

2053
01:32:06,999 --> 01:32:09,175
I was never more excited for
The Avengers

2054
01:32:09,219 --> 01:32:12,222
that I was walking out of
Captain America.

2055
01:32:12,265 --> 01:32:14,746
Although both
Thor and Captain America

2056
01:32:14,790 --> 01:32:17,314
had fallen short of the
huge box office success

2057
01:32:17,357 --> 01:32:18,750
of Iron Man,

2058
01:32:18,794 --> 01:32:20,360
their 2011
output suggested

2059
01:32:20,404 --> 01:32:22,624
that Marvel Studio's
audacious plan

2060
01:32:22,667 --> 01:32:24,582
was developing smoothly.

2061
01:32:24,626 --> 01:32:27,411
And this was not simply
a Superhero movie craze -

2062
01:32:27,454 --> 01:32:29,674
another of the summer's
tent-pole releases,

2063
01:32:29,718 --> 01:32:32,459
a big budget outing
for DC's Green Lantern,

2064
01:32:32,503 --> 01:32:36,072
proved a significant critical
and commercial failure.

2065
01:32:36,115 --> 01:32:38,857
But Marvel was playing
by its own rules.

2066
01:32:38,901 --> 01:32:41,686
Its multi-film strategy,
which would become known

2067
01:32:41,730 --> 01:32:44,167
as the Marvel
Cinematic Universe,

2068
01:32:44,210 --> 01:32:46,038
saw each
individual release

2069
01:32:46,082 --> 01:32:49,651
function as an installment of
a larger connected series,

2070
01:32:49,694 --> 01:32:52,828
with actors signed on to
portray the same character

2071
01:32:52,871 --> 01:32:54,612
in a large
number of films.

2072
01:32:54,656 --> 01:32:57,876
So you're gearing up for your...
obviously a spin off.

2073
01:32:57,920 --> 01:33:00,705
For Avengers or... what?

2074
01:33:00,749 --> 01:33:02,751
I got a nine-picture deal.
I mean you know...

2075
01:33:02,794 --> 01:33:04,361
You guys know more
about the news than I do.

2076
01:33:04,404 --> 01:33:05,797
I got a nine-picture deal.

2077
01:33:05,841 --> 01:33:07,494
Eventually, I want to make
all nine of them

2078
01:33:07,538 --> 01:33:09,148
or they're gonna kill me.

2079
01:33:09,192 --> 01:33:11,020
If Marvel
could pull it off,

2080
01:33:11,063 --> 01:33:12,848
this connected universe
would be

2081
01:33:12,891 --> 01:33:14,545
a revolutionary
achievement.

2082
01:33:14,589 --> 01:33:16,678
And not only
was the strategy unique,

2083
01:33:16,721 --> 01:33:19,332
the studio was also
approaching superhero cinema

2084
01:33:19,376 --> 01:33:22,118
in a fresh way.

2085
01:33:22,161 --> 01:33:25,382
Previously the creative drive
behind many adaptations

2086
01:33:25,425 --> 01:33:27,732
was brought
by distinctive directors -

2087
01:33:27,776 --> 01:33:29,734
from Tim Burton
and Ang Lee

2088
01:33:29,778 --> 01:33:32,171
to Bryan Singer
and Christopher Nolan -

2089
01:33:32,215 --> 01:33:34,783
all of whom offered
their own interpretations

2090
01:33:34,826 --> 01:33:36,785
of the source material.

2091
01:33:36,828 --> 01:33:38,569
Marvel's vision was
in the hands

2092
01:33:38,613 --> 01:33:41,441
of President of Production
Kevin Feige, however,

2093
01:33:41,485 --> 01:33:43,226
and the filmmakers
brought on board

2094
01:33:43,269 --> 01:33:44,575
were expected to serve

2095
01:33:44,619 --> 01:33:46,621
as part
of a much larger project.

2096
01:33:46,664 --> 01:33:48,057
They're
bringing in people

2097
01:33:48,100 --> 01:33:49,798
who are invisible hands.

2098
01:33:49,841 --> 01:33:53,105
If you're into film, you'd go,
"Oh, I see this touch here."

2099
01:33:53,149 --> 01:33:54,541
Or, "That's so Shane Black."

2100
01:33:54,585 --> 01:33:56,413
But the audience
doesn't see that.

2101
01:33:56,456 --> 01:33:59,198
You can't look at it and go,
that's a Shane Black film.

2102
01:33:59,242 --> 01:34:00,896
Whereas in a Tim Burton film,

2103
01:34:00,939 --> 01:34:03,028
you look at one frame and go,
"I think that's Tim Burton."

2104
01:34:03,072 --> 01:34:05,335
They've brought in
invisible hands.

2105
01:34:05,378 --> 01:34:08,599
People like Jon Favreau
Joe Johnston, guys like that

2106
01:34:08,643 --> 01:34:10,601
who know how to deal with...
how to get it done.

2107
01:34:10,645 --> 01:34:12,995
How to get it done on time.
How to work with a cast.

2108
01:34:13,038 --> 01:34:14,823
There's not going
to be any problems.

2109
01:34:14,866 --> 01:34:17,913
Everything in the screenplay
is going to go on the film.

2110
01:34:17,956 --> 01:34:20,916
It's going to be storyboarded,
all kinds of control.

2111
01:34:20,959 --> 01:34:22,352
But I think that's it.

2112
01:34:22,395 --> 01:34:24,963
It's just plain old craft,
that's what it is.

2113
01:34:25,007 --> 01:34:26,748
These guys know how
to make entertaining movies.

2114
01:34:28,793 --> 01:34:31,709
The greatest test
of this ambitious project

2115
01:34:31,753 --> 01:34:34,451
came in the
Spring of 2012.

2116
01:34:34,494 --> 01:34:36,714
Having established
their core characters

2117
01:34:36,758 --> 01:34:38,803
in successful solo films,

2118
01:34:38,847 --> 01:34:41,327
Marvel Studios brought
these heroes together

2119
01:34:41,371 --> 01:34:43,765
inThe Avengers.

2120
01:34:43,808 --> 01:34:47,725
Upon its release it broke
box-office records worldwide,

2121
01:34:47,769 --> 01:34:50,249
and became the highest-
grossing superhero film

2122
01:34:50,293 --> 01:34:51,686
of all time.

2123
01:34:55,559 --> 01:34:56,995
They
built it film by film.

2124
01:34:57,039 --> 01:34:58,475
They went
from strength to strength.

2125
01:34:58,518 --> 01:35:01,260
As each film was successful,
they began building.

2126
01:35:01,304 --> 01:35:04,524
But the game plan of building
all these disparate films,

2127
01:35:04,568 --> 01:35:07,876
to have the characters meet
again in the big blockbuster,

2128
01:35:07,919 --> 01:35:11,314
that's never been done
before. It's brilliant.

2129
01:35:11,357 --> 01:35:13,577
And it's offering
the audience

2130
01:35:13,620 --> 01:35:16,014
a level of consistency
they haven't seen.

2131
01:35:16,058 --> 01:35:18,974
Well, they can't get it
anywhere else.

2132
01:35:19,017 --> 01:35:20,584
The
thing that they've done

2133
01:35:20,627 --> 01:35:23,413
with the interconnected universe
is mind-boggling.

2134
01:35:23,456 --> 01:35:27,896
The fact that they got...
that The Avengers were on film,

2135
01:35:27,939 --> 01:35:30,594
I still can't believe it.
It's been years since it...

2136
01:35:30,637 --> 01:35:32,509
I still can't believe
they pulled that off.

2137
01:35:44,869 --> 01:35:47,350
The first
Avengers film was brilliant.

2138
01:35:47,393 --> 01:35:49,265
At the time, I don't think
I'd ever really felt

2139
01:35:49,308 --> 01:35:53,182
such buzz in the cinema about
how this was going to work.

2140
01:35:53,225 --> 01:35:56,098
We weren't sure to be honest
whether it was going to work.

2141
01:35:56,141 --> 01:35:58,143
Certainly for people
who were fans comic books,

2142
01:35:58,187 --> 01:35:59,797
I think it was
an absolute joy

2143
01:35:59,841 --> 01:36:02,757
to finally see these guys
sharing a screen together

2144
01:36:02,800 --> 01:36:05,020
and they were more than
the sum of their parts.

2145
01:36:05,063 --> 01:36:08,327
So together they were better
than they were as individuals.

2146
01:36:10,286 --> 01:36:13,028
And the Avengers
even saw Marvel triumph

2147
01:36:13,071 --> 01:36:15,291
with a character
who had previously struggled

2148
01:36:15,334 --> 01:36:18,163
to cross over
to movie audiences.

2149
01:36:18,207 --> 01:36:20,078
As the film's cast
were greeted

2150
01:36:20,122 --> 01:36:22,385
like rockstars
at premieres worldwide,

2151
01:36:22,428 --> 01:36:24,735
amongst them
was Mark Ruffalo,

2152
01:36:24,779 --> 01:36:26,824
the latest
in a long line of actors

2153
01:36:26,868 --> 01:36:31,046
to portray Dr. Bruce Banner
and his alter ego, the Hulk.

2154
01:36:31,089 --> 01:36:32,874
I think the Hulk found a home.

2155
01:36:32,917 --> 01:36:35,485
You could say the whole arc
of the history of the Hulk

2156
01:36:35,528 --> 01:36:39,619
since 1962 was,
"Where will the Hulk belong?"

2157
01:36:39,663 --> 01:36:42,144
Where the Hulk belonged,
surprise, surprise

2158
01:36:42,187 --> 01:36:44,146
was in The Avengers movies,

2159
01:36:44,189 --> 01:36:47,584
because it wasn't just him
hogging up the whole screen.

2160
01:36:47,627 --> 01:36:50,674
He really played off
these other characters.

2161
01:36:50,717 --> 01:36:53,677
Mark Ruffalo's rendition of
Bruce Banner was terrific.

2162
01:36:53,720 --> 01:36:58,638
When you didn't need the Hulk,
you could kind of send him away.

2163
01:36:58,682 --> 01:37:00,684
But when you needed him,
he was very effective.

2164
01:37:02,729 --> 01:37:05,384
Dr. Banner...

2165
01:37:05,428 --> 01:37:08,300
Now might be a really good time
for you to get angry.

2166
01:37:08,344 --> 01:37:10,650
That's my secret, Captain...

2167
01:37:12,609 --> 01:37:14,263
I'm always angry.

2168
01:37:22,445 --> 01:37:28,930
The idea to me of, 'high school
jocks' and the popular kids

2169
01:37:28,973 --> 01:37:33,630
and really anyone other than
'the nerd demographic',

2170
01:37:33,673 --> 01:37:35,545
grabbing
their buddies together

2171
01:37:35,588 --> 01:37:39,027
and racing out on opening night
to see a movie where Thor

2172
01:37:39,070 --> 01:37:42,769
and Captain America and Iron Man
fend off an alien invasion

2173
01:37:42,813 --> 01:37:44,902
was mind-boggling to me.

2174
01:37:44,946 --> 01:37:49,167
And that is unquestionably
Marvel's greatest success

2175
01:37:49,211 --> 01:37:51,648
is that they took these
B-level characters,

2176
01:37:51,691 --> 01:37:53,128
comparatively
B-level characters,

2177
01:37:53,171 --> 01:37:55,913
and made them
into A-level superstars.

2178
01:37:55,957 --> 01:37:57,610
While the Marvel Universe

2179
01:37:57,654 --> 01:38:00,396
was finally being revealed
in all its glory,

2180
01:38:00,439 --> 01:38:02,615
another Superhero series
was ready

2181
01:38:02,659 --> 01:38:04,879
to unveil
its final installment.

2182
01:38:04,922 --> 01:38:07,229
With audiences
still reeling

2183
01:38:07,272 --> 01:38:08,708
from the impact
of The Avengers,

2184
01:38:08,752 --> 01:38:10,188
two months later

2185
01:38:10,232 --> 01:38:12,538
The Dark Knight Rises
was released.

2186
01:38:12,582 --> 01:38:15,541
With Christian Bale taking
on the mantle of the Bat

2187
01:38:15,585 --> 01:38:16,891
for the last time,

2188
01:38:16,934 --> 01:38:18,936
he faced off
against fellow British actor

2189
01:38:18,980 --> 01:38:22,984
Tom Hardy as Bane, a
lesser-known Batman villain

2190
01:38:23,027 --> 01:38:25,334
created by Chuck Dixon
and Graham Nolan,

2191
01:38:25,377 --> 01:38:30,034
who had previously appeared
in 1998's Batman and Robin.

2192
01:38:30,078 --> 01:38:32,863
Bane comes off a lot better
in Dark Knight Rises

2193
01:38:32,907 --> 01:38:34,256
than he did in
Batman and Robin.

2194
01:38:34,299 --> 01:38:35,953
He's not a mindless henchman.

2195
01:38:35,997 --> 01:38:38,173
They present him
as a mastermind.

2196
01:38:38,216 --> 01:38:39,739
They present him as a bad-ass

2197
01:38:39,783 --> 01:38:41,524
which is one of
the most important things.

2198
01:38:41,567 --> 01:38:42,917
He's smart and he's a bad-ass.

2199
01:38:45,702 --> 01:38:47,182
Bane!

2200
01:38:47,225 --> 01:38:50,141
Let's not stand
on ceremony here...

2201
01:38:51,838 --> 01:38:53,971
...Mr. Wayne.

2202
01:39:05,940 --> 01:39:07,985
Patience has cost
you your strength.

2203
01:39:08,029 --> 01:39:09,378
Victory has defeated you.

2204
01:39:11,684 --> 01:39:13,251
They made him
a household name.

2205
01:39:13,295 --> 01:39:14,470
Everybody knows
who he is now,

2206
01:39:14,513 --> 01:39:16,559
which I'm still
getting my head around.

2207
01:39:16,602 --> 01:39:19,475
You know Graham Nolan
and I are like, wow.

2208
01:39:19,518 --> 01:39:21,912
You know, we just came up
with a crazy idea,

2209
01:39:21,956 --> 01:39:24,436
and here it is
in toys, in key chains

2210
01:39:24,480 --> 01:39:27,613
and pajamas and Halloween
costumes, everything.

2211
01:39:27,657 --> 01:39:30,007
Released in July 2012,

2212
01:39:30,051 --> 01:39:32,879
with an unfamiliar villain
and Heath Ledger's performance

2213
01:39:32,923 --> 01:39:36,100
as the Joker still fresh
in moviegoers' memories,

2214
01:39:36,144 --> 01:39:39,321
this closing chapter in
Christopher Nolan's trilogy

2215
01:39:39,364 --> 01:39:40,975
had a lot to
live up to...

2216
01:39:41,018 --> 01:39:43,281
There is
the issue that The Joker

2217
01:39:43,325 --> 01:39:45,718
was such an impactful
presence inThe Dark Knight

2218
01:39:45,762 --> 01:39:48,983
that you're inevitably going to
miss that side in the next film.

2219
01:39:49,026 --> 01:39:51,028
You obviously kind of
want to see him again.

2220
01:39:51,072 --> 01:39:52,725
And who knows,

2221
01:39:52,769 --> 01:39:55,250
if things hadn't gone the way
they did with Heath Ledger,

2222
01:39:55,293 --> 01:39:57,600
who knows what would have
happened in the third film.

2223
01:39:57,643 --> 01:40:00,995
But one of the things
I really do like about it is,

2224
01:40:01,038 --> 01:40:02,735
it's one of these
rare superhero films,

2225
01:40:02,779 --> 01:40:05,390
which we just
may never see again,

2226
01:40:05,434 --> 01:40:06,913
that actually
has an ending.

2227
01:40:06,957 --> 01:40:08,611
It has a neat,
wrapped up ending

2228
01:40:08,654 --> 01:40:11,831
that you can feel like
that was where it was going

2229
01:40:11,875 --> 01:40:13,311
fromBatman Begins.

2230
01:40:13,355 --> 01:40:15,487
You actually get quite
an emotional pay-off, I think.

2231
01:40:17,098 --> 01:40:19,100
I never cared who you were.

2232
01:40:19,143 --> 01:40:20,579
Then you were right.

2233
01:40:20,623 --> 01:40:23,147
Shouldn't the people know
the hero who saved them?

2234
01:40:23,191 --> 01:40:24,322
A hero can be anyone.

2235
01:40:24,366 --> 01:40:25,671
Even a man
who does something

2236
01:40:25,715 --> 01:40:27,934
as simple and reassuring

2237
01:40:27,978 --> 01:40:30,807
as putting a coat
around a young boy's shoulders

2238
01:40:30,850 --> 01:40:33,375
to let him know
the world hadn't ended.

2239
01:40:52,220 --> 01:40:54,091
Bruce Wayne.

2240
01:40:54,135 --> 01:40:56,006
Nolan stuck to his guns

2241
01:40:56,050 --> 01:40:57,486
and did what he
wanted to do.

2242
01:40:57,529 --> 01:41:00,271
He made a successful arc,
the arc he wanted to tell.

2243
01:41:00,315 --> 01:41:03,231
It felt consistent,
it looked great.

2244
01:41:03,274 --> 01:41:04,797
Even though as
a standalone,

2245
01:41:04,841 --> 01:41:07,191
I don't think it's as strong
as the other two films.

2246
01:41:07,235 --> 01:41:08,932
As a set,
I think it will absolutely

2247
01:41:08,975 --> 01:41:10,455
stand up to the
test of time.

2248
01:41:10,499 --> 01:41:13,719
Christopher Nolan's Batman
series may be the high point

2249
01:41:13,763 --> 01:41:16,418
of this balance between,

2250
01:41:16,461 --> 01:41:20,465
the filmmaker,
working high cinema art,

2251
01:41:20,509 --> 01:41:23,773
combining, reconciling that
with what fans want to see.

2252
01:41:23,816 --> 01:41:26,819
I think that accomplished it
about as well as films could.

2253
01:41:26,863 --> 01:41:29,518
I don't think any comic book fan
could be disappointed

2254
01:41:29,561 --> 01:41:31,389
with the Christopher
Nolan films.

2255
01:41:31,433 --> 01:41:33,957
And I think any cinema fan,

2256
01:41:34,000 --> 01:41:36,090
recognizes the quality
of what he's doing

2257
01:41:36,133 --> 01:41:39,397
even if they had never read
the comic books themselves.

2258
01:41:39,441 --> 01:41:40,659
In the wake of these

2259
01:41:40,703 --> 01:41:43,401
two billion dollar
grossing behemoths,

2260
01:41:43,445 --> 01:41:46,752
superheroes
took over the world.

2261
01:41:46,796 --> 01:41:50,104
Comic book culture fully
exploded into the mainstream,

2262
01:41:50,147 --> 01:41:54,151
merchandise flooded into
every conceivable store,

2263
01:41:54,195 --> 01:41:56,240
convention
attendances soared

2264
01:41:56,284 --> 01:41:58,199
and no one had
to hide their passion

2265
01:41:58,242 --> 01:42:01,724
like a guilty pleasure
anymore.

2266
01:42:01,767 --> 01:42:04,422
As The X-Men and Spider-Man
series saw reboots

2267
01:42:04,466 --> 01:42:06,729
that sought to revive
these franchises

2268
01:42:06,772 --> 01:42:09,427
after unpopular
third installments,

2269
01:42:09,471 --> 01:42:13,910
Marvel Studios' cinematic
output powered ever onwards.

2270
01:42:13,953 --> 01:42:17,566
With Iron Man 3,
Thor: The Dark World

2271
01:42:17,609 --> 01:42:20,046
and Captain America:
Winter Soldier

2272
01:42:20,090 --> 01:42:21,483
all opening to
critical praise

2273
01:42:21,526 --> 01:42:24,442
and ever-increasing
box office returns,

2274
01:42:24,486 --> 01:42:27,880
the spotlight soon fell
upon Kevin Feige.

2275
01:42:27,924 --> 01:42:30,709
As the success of the
interconnected universe

2276
01:42:30,753 --> 01:42:32,363
became ever
more apparent,

2277
01:42:32,407 --> 01:42:34,452
the press celebrated
the mastermind

2278
01:42:34,496 --> 01:42:36,019
behind the curtain.

2279
01:42:36,062 --> 01:42:38,239
For me it was the notion
of reading the Marvel comics

2280
01:42:38,282 --> 01:42:40,719
and not knowing
who would appear in what

2281
01:42:40,763 --> 01:42:43,113
because they all exist
in the same universe.

2282
01:42:43,157 --> 01:42:45,071
And obviously that
hadn't been done before

2283
01:42:45,115 --> 01:42:47,596
and now that once Marvel...

2284
01:42:47,639 --> 01:42:50,425
We started making our own movies
and we had the entire library.

2285
01:42:50,468 --> 01:42:52,775
I thought, wouldn't it be fun
to start doing that?

2286
01:42:52,818 --> 01:42:54,472
It's very smart.

2287
01:42:54,516 --> 01:42:58,520
The irony for me is that
it's just the Marvel universe.

2288
01:42:58,563 --> 01:43:00,261
It's the same Marvel universe

2289
01:43:00,304 --> 01:43:02,741
that Stan Lee created
in the 1960s.

2290
01:43:02,785 --> 01:43:05,744
And the genius of Kevin Feige
is that he just went,

2291
01:43:05,788 --> 01:43:09,574
"Well, Stan and Jack and Steve
figured it out in the 60s.

2292
01:43:09,618 --> 01:43:11,315
Why mess around with it?"

2293
01:43:11,359 --> 01:43:13,491
He's like
the Steve Jobs of movies.

2294
01:43:13,535 --> 01:43:16,320
And I think history is going
to be very kind to that guy,

2295
01:43:16,364 --> 01:43:19,323
when you have the ability
to look back at what he's done

2296
01:43:19,367 --> 01:43:22,674
in its entirety because
we're still in the middle of it.

2297
01:43:22,718 --> 01:43:25,895
I don't think audiences
can really appreciate

2298
01:43:25,938 --> 01:43:28,376
the magnitude
of what that guy's built.

2299
01:43:28,419 --> 01:43:30,682
It's staggering.

2300
01:43:30,726 --> 01:43:32,336
With comic
book characters

2301
01:43:32,380 --> 01:43:34,208
dominating
popular culture,

2302
01:43:34,251 --> 01:43:37,907
in 2013 Warner Brothers
and DC looked to revive

2303
01:43:37,950 --> 01:43:40,736
the original
blockbuster superhero.

2304
01:43:40,779 --> 01:43:42,912
With a story by
theBatman Begins team

2305
01:43:42,955 --> 01:43:45,349
of Christopher Nolan
and David S. Goyer,

2306
01:43:45,393 --> 01:43:47,786
director Zach Snyder
behind the camera

2307
01:43:47,830 --> 01:43:51,007
and young British actor Henry
Cavill in the lead role,

2308
01:43:51,050 --> 01:43:55,403
Man of Steel sought to bring
Superman into the modern age.

2309
01:43:55,446 --> 01:43:58,319
And despite some
negative reactions,

2310
01:43:58,362 --> 01:44:00,756
its commercial performance
convinced Warners

2311
01:44:00,799 --> 01:44:03,628
to press ahead
with plans for a sequel.

2312
01:44:03,672 --> 01:44:05,587
Yet the success of
The Avengers

2313
01:44:05,630 --> 01:44:07,719
and Marvel's
interconnected universe

2314
01:44:07,763 --> 01:44:10,156
had sent shockwaves
through the film industry,

2315
01:44:10,200 --> 01:44:12,811
and conventional
blockbuster franchises

2316
01:44:12,855 --> 01:44:16,032
no longer seemed
so attractive.

2317
01:44:16,075 --> 01:44:18,469
Hollywood
gets the idea that

2318
01:44:18,513 --> 01:44:20,602
because The Avengers
did so well,

2319
01:44:20,645 --> 01:44:24,214
they all should be chasing
cinematic universes.

2320
01:44:24,258 --> 01:44:28,305
and I think that's the negative
impact of The Avengers.

2321
01:44:28,349 --> 01:44:29,959
One that
we're still feeling today,

2322
01:44:30,002 --> 01:44:35,225
one that I think may eventually
have terrible repercussions

2323
01:44:35,269 --> 01:44:37,401
for theatrical
movie-going overall.

2324
01:44:37,445 --> 01:44:39,098
Because we really
don't have any evidence,

2325
01:44:39,142 --> 01:44:40,709
we don't have
much evidence

2326
01:44:40,752 --> 01:44:43,625
that audiences actually want
these cinematic universes

2327
01:44:43,668 --> 01:44:45,757
as opposed to they like
The Avengers.

2328
01:44:45,801 --> 01:44:49,152
Man of Steelmay have been
intended at the time

2329
01:44:49,195 --> 01:44:51,328
as a stand alone
Superman picture,

2330
01:44:51,372 --> 01:44:54,418
but between Man of
Steelbeing greenlit

2331
01:44:54,462 --> 01:44:56,681
and The Avengers making
a billion and a half dollars,

2332
01:44:56,725 --> 01:44:59,075
they go, yeah, we're going
to eventually make this

2333
01:44:59,118 --> 01:45:01,382
into what we now know
is the DC films universe

2334
01:45:01,425 --> 01:45:03,340
for better or worse.

2335
01:45:03,384 --> 01:45:05,647
With Christian
Bale's Dark Knight

2336
01:45:05,690 --> 01:45:07,910
still fresh
in audiences' memories,

2337
01:45:07,953 --> 01:45:10,521
Warners nevertheless looked
to bring the character

2338
01:45:10,565 --> 01:45:13,219
into the world of
Man of Steel,

2339
01:45:13,263 --> 01:45:16,222
and aBatman v Superman
project was quickly announced

2340
01:45:16,266 --> 01:45:18,181
as the next
in a series of films

2341
01:45:18,224 --> 01:45:21,053
that would include big screen
outings for Wonder Woman,

2342
01:45:21,097 --> 01:45:24,796
Aquaman and other members
of DC's Justice League.

2343
01:45:24,840 --> 01:45:27,712
And without a Kevin Feige
pulling the strings

2344
01:45:27,756 --> 01:45:29,627
and ensuring coherence,

2345
01:45:29,671 --> 01:45:31,934
the studio looked
to director Zack Snyder

2346
01:45:31,977 --> 01:45:33,283
to drive the
creative vision

2347
01:45:33,327 --> 01:45:35,590
for this
interconnected universe.

2348
01:45:35,633 --> 01:45:38,419
Casting Ben Affleck
as a new Caped Crusader

2349
01:45:38,462 --> 01:45:40,595
and introducing Gal Gadot

2350
01:45:40,638 --> 01:45:42,771
as the first big screen
Wonder Woman,

2351
01:45:42,814 --> 01:45:46,862
upon its release, Batman v
Superman: Dawn of Justice

2352
01:45:46,905 --> 01:45:51,823
came under fire from
audiences and critics alike.

2353
01:45:51,867 --> 01:45:53,477
When you
look at the DC films,

2354
01:45:53,521 --> 01:45:56,959
certainly there is a lot of
Zack Snyder coming into it.

2355
01:45:57,002 --> 01:45:58,961
Zack Snyder,
who directed Watchmen,

2356
01:45:59,004 --> 01:46:04,358
the first real nihilistic
take on superheroes -

2357
01:46:04,401 --> 01:46:06,838
superheroes who are faced
with not winning,

2358
01:46:06,882 --> 01:46:08,927
the unwinnable situation.

2359
01:46:08,971 --> 01:46:13,018
With Man of Steel and Batman
v Superman Dawn of Justice

2360
01:46:13,062 --> 01:46:15,586
those films have gone down
a dark road

2361
01:46:15,630 --> 01:46:17,675
because we don't believe
in the heroes.

2362
01:46:27,642 --> 01:46:29,426
Next time they shine
your light in the sky

2363
01:46:30,340 --> 01:46:32,168
don't go to it.

2364
01:46:32,211 --> 01:46:34,518
The Bat is dead, buried.

2365
01:46:36,259 --> 01:46:38,304
Consider this mercy.

2366
01:46:39,871 --> 01:46:41,699
Tell me...

2367
01:46:45,399 --> 01:46:48,750
Do you bleed?

2368
01:46:48,793 --> 01:46:51,230
I've wanted
to see Batman and Superman

2369
01:46:51,274 --> 01:46:54,277
fight since I was a little kid.
That's so cool.

2370
01:46:54,320 --> 01:46:56,453
I should have gone crazy
over this movie.

2371
01:46:56,497 --> 01:47:00,370
But I feel like
it was just too processed.

2372
01:47:00,414 --> 01:47:03,199
I think we've gone
too far with the gritty.

2373
01:47:03,242 --> 01:47:07,246
I think there wasn't any
sense of fun about this movie.

2374
01:47:07,290 --> 01:47:10,119
It just felt like
Superman was depressed

2375
01:47:10,162 --> 01:47:12,338
and Batman was angry
and then they fought.

2376
01:47:12,382 --> 01:47:14,471
Then Wonder Woman
comes in and she's great.

2377
01:47:14,515 --> 01:47:17,779
Then, we're all angry again
and everyone's depressed.

2378
01:47:17,822 --> 01:47:21,870
It's just all dark
and it feels dreary.

2379
01:47:21,913 --> 01:47:24,829
Dawn
of Justice is a bad film

2380
01:47:24,873 --> 01:47:26,527
and part of the reason
it's a bad film

2381
01:47:26,570 --> 01:47:30,139
is because of how
massively it betrays

2382
01:47:30,182 --> 01:47:32,097
both Batman and Superman,

2383
01:47:32,141 --> 01:47:35,797
making them both
into absolute petulant idiots.

2384
01:47:35,840 --> 01:47:38,582
They're both violent
and selfish and stupid.

2385
01:47:38,626 --> 01:47:40,584
And actually it completely
ruins Lois Lane as well

2386
01:47:40,628 --> 01:47:42,717
and makes her into a
terrible damsel in distress

2387
01:47:42,760 --> 01:47:45,197
who's a complete liability
for the whole film.

2388
01:47:45,241 --> 01:47:47,635
It felt like a total betrayal

2389
01:47:47,678 --> 01:47:50,333
of these characters that
we'd loved for such a long time

2390
01:47:50,376 --> 01:47:53,989
and a massive misunderstanding.

2391
01:47:54,032 --> 01:47:56,948
While DC's
attempt to launch a rival

2392
01:47:56,992 --> 01:48:00,474
to Marvel's cinematic universe
proved hugely divisive,

2393
01:48:00,517 --> 01:48:02,432
elsewhere superhero films

2394
01:48:02,476 --> 01:48:04,739
were going
from strength to strength

2395
01:48:04,782 --> 01:48:06,784
and their stock within
the wider film industry

2396
01:48:06,828 --> 01:48:09,526
continued to rise.

2397
01:48:09,570 --> 01:48:12,137
A thoroughly refreshed
X-Men franchise

2398
01:48:12,181 --> 01:48:14,879
saw director Bryan Singer
return to the helm

2399
01:48:14,923 --> 01:48:16,577
and combine
his original heroes

2400
01:48:16,620 --> 01:48:18,579
with a new, younger cast

2401
01:48:18,622 --> 01:48:21,669
inDays of Future Past,
which quickly became

2402
01:48:21,712 --> 01:48:24,976
the most commercially
successful film in the series.

2403
01:48:25,020 --> 01:48:27,370
Elsewhere,
Marvel Studios seemed like

2404
01:48:27,413 --> 01:48:29,111
it could do no wrong,

2405
01:48:29,154 --> 01:48:31,635
and alongside a second
outing forThe Avengers,

2406
01:48:31,679 --> 01:48:33,115
fresh films emerged

2407
01:48:33,158 --> 01:48:35,291
that brought even less
familiar characters

2408
01:48:35,334 --> 01:48:38,555
from the publisher's past
to a global audience.

2409
01:48:38,599 --> 01:48:40,644
Marvel
Studios, they're on fire.

2410
01:48:40,688 --> 01:48:42,080
WithGuardians
of the Galaxy

2411
01:48:42,124 --> 01:48:45,562
Marvel showed, we can
make a billion with people

2412
01:48:45,606 --> 01:48:48,130
that even comic book fans
don't even know who they are.

2413
01:48:48,173 --> 01:48:50,175
Guardians of the Galaxy,

2414
01:48:50,219 --> 01:48:52,438
a title you can
barely remember

2415
01:48:52,482 --> 01:48:54,136
which was, no
offense guys,

2416
01:48:54,179 --> 01:48:56,312
but one of the worst
comic books ever done

2417
01:48:56,355 --> 01:49:00,490
and they turned it
into a fantastic movie.

2418
01:49:00,534 --> 01:49:02,536
But that's all they had.

2419
01:49:02,579 --> 01:49:05,321
The reason they did it was
because they had nothing else.

2420
01:49:05,364 --> 01:49:07,628
They didn't have
Daredevil, X-Men,

2421
01:49:07,671 --> 01:49:10,587
Spider-Man, Fantastic Four.

2422
01:49:10,631 --> 01:49:12,110
They'd licenced them all out.

2423
01:49:12,154 --> 01:49:14,591
What kind of deal
were they making with Disney?

2424
01:49:14,635 --> 01:49:16,985
Disney in a weird way
bought a pig in a poke.

2425
01:49:17,028 --> 01:49:20,118
But at the same time,
they took that pig in a poke

2426
01:49:20,162 --> 01:49:22,556
and made it into gold.

2427
01:49:23,905 --> 01:49:25,559
Each one of them,

2428
01:49:25,602 --> 01:49:28,474
they're varying degrees
of good and great

2429
01:49:28,518 --> 01:49:30,564
but they haven't had anything
that's overtly terrible.

2430
01:49:30,607 --> 01:49:32,870
They haven't had anything
that's a massive flop.

2431
01:49:32,914 --> 01:49:36,613
They haven't dropped the ball.
Even Ant-Man, for God's sake.

2432
01:49:36,657 --> 01:49:39,703
If you talk about superheroes
that should have never worked

2433
01:49:39,747 --> 01:49:42,140
should have never been
able to work... Ant-Man.

2434
01:49:42,184 --> 01:49:44,316
What's the one movie
that will never work?

2435
01:49:44,360 --> 01:49:47,493
Ant-Man.
And it was great.

2436
01:49:47,537 --> 01:49:51,541
In some ways
Ant-Man is the triumphant kiss

2437
01:49:51,585 --> 01:49:54,413
that Marvel can say,
"We've done it."

2438
01:49:54,457 --> 01:49:56,894
That we can even get away
with an Ant-Man movie.

2439
01:49:56,938 --> 01:49:59,549
For so long that would be
a joke. It was a joke.

2440
01:49:59,593 --> 01:50:01,899
Will we ever see
an Ant-Man movie?

2441
01:50:01,943 --> 01:50:04,075
Will we even see
an Ant-Man comic book again?

2442
01:50:04,119 --> 01:50:07,252
The fact that Marvel
was able to pull that off

2443
01:50:07,296 --> 01:50:10,168
in a successful film
again with good casting...

2444
01:50:12,040 --> 01:50:13,650
That was Marvel's way
of saying,

2445
01:50:13,694 --> 01:50:17,654
we can get away
with anything.

2446
01:50:17,698 --> 01:50:19,090
And in the
preceding years,

2447
01:50:19,134 --> 01:50:21,876
the studio continued
to bring its Midas touch

2448
01:50:21,919 --> 01:50:24,269
to both sequels
and new projects,

2449
01:50:24,313 --> 01:50:27,664
with Doctor Strange
making his cinematic debut

2450
01:50:27,708 --> 01:50:31,625
and Spider-Man finally brought
into the Marvel universe.

2451
01:50:31,668 --> 01:50:34,758
Elsewhere theX-Men
franchise expanded,

2452
01:50:34,802 --> 01:50:37,979
with two groundbreaking movies
aimed at an adult audience.

2453
01:50:38,022 --> 01:50:41,809
Deadpool blended extreme
violence with acerbic comedy

2454
01:50:41,852 --> 01:50:43,811
and became a
global sensation,

2455
01:50:43,854 --> 01:50:47,162
while Logan was Hugh Jackman's
swansong asWolverine,

2456
01:50:47,205 --> 01:50:49,773
the somber closing chapter
for the character

2457
01:50:49,817 --> 01:50:51,732
that had launched
his career.

2458
01:50:51,775 --> 01:50:55,083
Having dominated popular
culture for over a decade,

2459
01:50:55,126 --> 01:50:56,693
in the wake of
these films,

2460
01:50:56,737 --> 01:50:59,522
comic book adaptations still
offered new opportunities

2461
01:50:59,565 --> 01:51:02,133
for both the studios
and cinemagoers.

2462
01:51:02,177 --> 01:51:04,048
And this was nowhere
more apparent

2463
01:51:04,092 --> 01:51:05,528
than in
two revolutionary films

2464
01:51:05,571 --> 01:51:07,225
released by DC and Marvel

2465
01:51:07,269 --> 01:51:09,358
within a 12-month period.

2466
01:51:09,401 --> 01:51:12,535
Wonder Woman finally gave
this 75-year old character

2467
01:51:12,578 --> 01:51:13,884
a film of her own,

2468
01:51:13,928 --> 01:51:16,321
with Patty Jenkins
the first ever woman

2469
01:51:16,365 --> 01:51:19,498
to helm an American studio
superhero movie.

2470
01:51:19,542 --> 01:51:22,110
Marvel's Black Panther,
on the other hand,

2471
01:51:22,153 --> 01:51:26,157
gave Stan Lee and Jack Kirby's
landmark African superhero

2472
01:51:26,201 --> 01:51:28,551
a historic solo vehicle.

2473
01:51:28,594 --> 01:51:31,423
Studio execs
in the past would have said,

2474
01:51:31,467 --> 01:51:34,775
"We can't do a female led movie
because it won't sell.

2475
01:51:34,818 --> 01:51:37,212
We can't do a movie led
by a person of color,

2476
01:51:37,255 --> 01:51:39,780
or people of color
being the predominant cast

2477
01:51:39,823 --> 01:51:42,608
because it won't sell.
Well, you're wrong.

2478
01:51:42,652 --> 01:51:44,088
People love Wonder Woman.

2479
01:51:44,132 --> 01:51:45,699
You don't have to be
a girl to love Wonder Woman.

2480
01:51:45,742 --> 01:51:47,048
Everybody loves
Wonder Woman.

2481
01:51:47,091 --> 01:51:48,702
I think it's taken so long
to get Wonder Woman

2482
01:51:48,745 --> 01:51:51,269
to the big screen,
because everyone was afraid

2483
01:51:51,313 --> 01:51:52,923
to do a female superhero movie

2484
01:51:52,967 --> 01:51:55,230
and you hold up films like
Catwoman and Elektra

2485
01:51:55,273 --> 01:51:57,362
and say,
"Oh, well, that's what...

2486
01:51:57,406 --> 01:51:58,624
'cause women
can't be superheroes."

2487
01:51:58,668 --> 01:52:01,236
Well, no, they have to be
in good movies.

2488
01:52:01,279 --> 01:52:03,368
I know when Gal
Gadot was cast

2489
01:52:03,412 --> 01:52:04,630
people were
a little concerned.

2490
01:52:04,674 --> 01:52:07,416
"Oh, well, she doesn't
look this way."

2491
01:52:07,459 --> 01:52:08,460
Screw that.
She was fantastic.

2492
01:52:17,513 --> 01:52:19,341
It was
extremely important

2493
01:52:19,384 --> 01:52:21,299
and extremely significant
as a movie.

2494
01:52:21,343 --> 01:52:23,562
It's ridiculous, quite honestly,

2495
01:52:23,606 --> 01:52:25,782
that we've had
these universes since,

2496
01:52:25,826 --> 01:52:30,004
well, even if we just talk
about MCU and DC it's 2008.

2497
01:52:30,047 --> 01:52:36,532
That's ten years that we haven't
got a single female lead.

2498
01:52:36,575 --> 01:52:38,621
We have secondary
characters around.

2499
01:52:38,664 --> 01:52:40,318
We've got Black Widow
who is amazing

2500
01:52:40,362 --> 01:52:43,147
played by Scarlett Johansson,
one of the most famous,

2501
01:52:43,191 --> 01:52:44,845
bankable actresses
in the world

2502
01:52:44,888 --> 01:52:46,411
and she can't get
her own movie.

2503
01:52:46,455 --> 01:52:47,978
This is absolute insanity.

2504
01:52:48,022 --> 01:52:50,372
Wonder Woman coming out,

2505
01:52:50,415 --> 01:52:51,895
being directed by a woman

2506
01:52:51,939 --> 01:52:55,116
having a very strong
supportive cast of women

2507
01:52:55,159 --> 01:52:57,074
was a very
significant thing.

2508
01:52:57,118 --> 01:52:59,120
DC beat
Marvel to the punch

2509
01:52:59,163 --> 01:53:03,211
in terms of getting a female
superhero their first film.

2510
01:53:03,254 --> 01:53:06,823
Then obviously Marvel have
come out with Black Panther

2511
01:53:06,867 --> 01:53:10,218
and I think it is a hugely
important cultural moment

2512
01:53:10,261 --> 01:53:13,482
having this film led by
people of color set in Africa,

2513
01:53:13,525 --> 01:53:17,225
and the film does deal
with issues of race head on.

2514
01:53:17,268 --> 01:53:18,835
It's not
just that this is led

2515
01:53:18,879 --> 01:53:22,665
by a black guy. The cast
is predominantly black.

2516
01:53:22,708 --> 01:53:24,841
And that actually is
really groundbreaking.

2517
01:53:24,885 --> 01:53:26,843
It's not something
we've seen in that universe.

2518
01:53:26,887 --> 01:53:29,324
It's not something we've seen
in any superhero universe

2519
01:53:29,367 --> 01:53:32,327
or even in fact in any
massive blockbuster universe.

2520
01:53:32,370 --> 01:53:33,807
So it is groundbreaking

2521
01:53:33,850 --> 01:53:35,591
and by giving it
to Ryan Coogler,

2522
01:53:35,634 --> 01:53:37,158
who is a fantastic director,

2523
01:53:37,201 --> 01:53:39,813
who'd made Fruitvale
Station and Creed,

2524
01:53:39,856 --> 01:53:41,379
both with Michael
B. Jordan,

2525
01:53:41,423 --> 01:53:44,078
and it seems giving him
a fairly free reign

2526
01:53:44,121 --> 01:53:45,993
to tell the story
that he wanted to tell,

2527
01:53:46,036 --> 01:53:47,690
what actually you have

2528
01:53:47,733 --> 01:53:50,562
is a very important,
very political,

2529
01:53:52,260 --> 01:53:55,393
really uplifting,
very ground breaking movie

2530
01:53:55,437 --> 01:53:57,874
that does still feel like
a Marvel movie.

2531
01:53:57,918 --> 01:54:01,922
To use the MCU to be
able to talk about issues

2532
01:54:01,965 --> 01:54:07,841
that we probably wouldn't see
in the multiplexes is amazing.

2533
01:54:07,884 --> 01:54:09,190
As the enormity

2534
01:54:09,233 --> 01:54:11,670
of Black Panther's
cultural significance

2535
01:54:11,714 --> 01:54:13,585
and commercial success
has proven,

2536
01:54:13,629 --> 01:54:15,936
superheroes remain
not only popular

2537
01:54:15,979 --> 01:54:19,417
but hugely influential.

2538
01:54:19,461 --> 01:54:22,812
With global audiences still
being introduced to characters

2539
01:54:22,856 --> 01:54:25,902
who have existed in the comics
world for half a century,

2540
01:54:25,946 --> 01:54:27,861
the wealth of heroes
and stories

2541
01:54:27,904 --> 01:54:30,776
yet to make the transition
from the page to the screen

2542
01:54:30,820 --> 01:54:33,867
suggests that
this popularity will endure.

2543
01:54:36,782 --> 01:54:39,307
And although the prominence
of these icons

2544
01:54:39,350 --> 01:54:42,005
is at its highest point
since their inception,

2545
01:54:42,049 --> 01:54:43,398
the comic book itself

2546
01:54:43,441 --> 01:54:47,358
has retained
its specialist reputation.

2547
01:54:47,402 --> 01:54:51,319
Never returning to
its sales peak of the 1990s,

2548
01:54:51,362 --> 01:54:53,495
as the print media
becomes less relevant

2549
01:54:53,538 --> 01:54:55,149
in our modern age,

2550
01:54:55,192 --> 01:54:57,542
the artform that launched
this global phenomenon

2551
01:54:57,586 --> 01:55:01,024
remains largely ignored.

2552
01:55:01,068 --> 01:55:03,026
As far as
how comics were regarded

2553
01:55:03,070 --> 01:55:05,376
I don't think they were
regarded any different.

2554
01:55:05,420 --> 01:55:06,856
You either like them
or you don't like them.

2555
01:55:06,900 --> 01:55:09,163
A lot of people
just don't like comics.

2556
01:55:09,206 --> 01:55:13,123
And there's thankfully people
who do like them a whole lot.

2557
01:55:15,821 --> 01:55:17,780
For me, the key to it

2558
01:55:17,823 --> 01:55:20,826
is going to New York,

2559
01:55:20,870 --> 01:55:23,307
San Diego, wherever,

2560
01:55:23,351 --> 01:55:24,961
and having people
stand in line

2561
01:55:25,005 --> 01:55:27,703
for three or four hours

2562
01:55:27,746 --> 01:55:30,314
and come up and say
I read this book.

2563
01:55:30,358 --> 01:55:33,535
This book is cool.
These characters are cool.

2564
01:55:33,578 --> 01:55:36,103
This book was important to me.

2565
01:55:36,146 --> 01:55:39,497
It helped me through
a period of my life.

2566
01:55:39,541 --> 01:55:41,108
I thought this
book was cool.

2567
01:55:41,151 --> 01:55:43,545
I've given it to my kids.

2568
01:55:43,588 --> 01:55:45,329
We think it's cool too.

2569
01:55:49,377 --> 01:55:51,205
Somehow or other,

2570
01:55:51,248 --> 01:55:52,597
somehow we did
something right.