Struggle Stuff

[00:02:41] <~Zarel> Arcticblast, http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/balanced-hackmons-extreme-stalling.3485939/#post-4760307
[00:02:55] <~Zarel> I wrote a huge monologue on infinite-Struggle stalling
...
[00:44:27] <%Arcticblast> Zarel sorry, I was afk
[00:44:40] <%Arcticblast> I like the win-with-16-struggles idea
[00:44:56] <&Hugendugen> !msg mikel how do you feel about this http://pastebin.com/1TV6cSt5 ?
01[00:44:56] <+CDXCIV> Message sent to mikel, Hugendugen
[00:45:20] <@woodchuck> yeah i like win-with-16-struggles because that doesn't stop infinite pp stall
[00:45:23] <%Arcticblast> On one hand it allows people who are legitimately using that as a strategy to win in less time, and on the other hand it punishes people who use Dickrachi
[00:45:30] <%Arcticblast> what woodchuck said too
[00:45:55] <@woodchuck> only problem is that it invokes an external win condition
[00:46:01] <@woodchuck> which is gay
[00:46:50] <%Limi> what if they bring you down to your last mon
[00:47:06] <%Limi> and set up their milk drink/heal pulse/trick/recycle leppa berry jirachi?!?
[00:47:07] <@V4> woodchuck
02[00:47:07] * %imanalt|phone ([email protected]) Quit (Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi)
[00:47:09] <@V4> its more like
02[00:47:09] * +Oglemi ([email protected]) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[00:47:24] <@V4> a mutual agreement
[00:47:24] <@V4> or clause
[00:47:24] <@V4> :o
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02[00:51:36] * Electrolyte ([email protected]) Quit (Ping timeout)
[00:52:11] <%Arcticblast> The only thing about Zarel's preferred solution
[00:52:16] <%Arcticblast> "Ban Leppa+Harvest, Leppa+Recycle, and Harvest+Entrainment"
[00:52:24] <%Arcticblast> is that it needs to include Skill Swap in the latter
02[00:52:28] * +NekoNay ([email protected]) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
[00:52:59] <~Zarel> oh yeah that
[00:53:02] <%Arcticblast> I still think trapping should go but I guess that isn't happening :\
[00:53:32] <%Arcticblast> really the best solution is to ban Adrian Marin
[00:53:36] <~Zarel> lol
[00:53:37] <%Arcticblast> so he doesn't keep finding this shit
[00:53:42] <~Zarel> verb said the same thing
[00:53:47] <~Zarel> but this is way more fun
[00:53:54] <%Arcticblast> I actually think one of the Struggle clauses would be better
[00:54:49] <%steamroll> First to struggle loses
[00:54:52] <~Zarel> well
[00:54:54] <%Arcticblast> because there was also the idea of Magnet Pull Ingrain Steel-type waits for Impostermon to use Ingrain then switch to something with Dry Skin and Skill Swap / Entrainment and spam Water moves in Rain
[00:55:03] <~Zarel> oh
[00:55:07] <%Arcticblast> (again brought to you by Adrian)
[00:55:08] <~Zarel> I didn't think of that
[00:55:16] <~Zarel> well actually no
[00:55:28] <~Zarel> spamming water moves, you'll run out of PP eventually
[00:55:38] <%Arcticblast> true
[00:55:43] <~Zarel> although Dry Skin + Aqua Ring + Ingrain is enough not to force a faint
[00:55:55] <~Zarel> I didn't think of _that_
[00:56:04] <@woodchuck> and then you just switch
[00:56:05] <@woodchuck> every turn
[00:56:34] <%Arcticblast> so really Struggle Clause is probably the best solution
[00:56:48] <@V4> Yea
[00:56:53] <@V4> I like Struggle Clause
[00:56:57] <%Arcticblast> I hate going against your preferred idea in this case since it's your sim
[00:57:03] <@V4> its like the 300% Clause in Smash Bros
[00:57:04] <%Arcticblast> but that's probably the best we're going to get
[00:57:24] <%Arcticblast> V4, what's that?
[00:57:30] <&bmelts> SUDDEN DEATH
[00:57:39] <@V4> ONce you get an opponenet to 300% damage
[00:57:42] <@V4> you MUST KO them
[00:57:49] <@V4> It prevents infinite chain-grabbing
[00:57:56] <%Arcticblast> Oh, okay
[00:58:00] <%Arcticblast> lol bmelts
[00:58:06] <%Arcticblast> I like Smash Bros's sudden death
[00:58:08] <@V4> which actually seems very relevant to this situation
[00:58:14] <%Arcticblast> wait too long and you get bombed
[00:58:23] <%Treecko> °-°
[00:58:28] <@V4> lol
[00:58:33] <@V4> and the bombs cmoe out of nowhere
[00:58:50] <@V4> Also what was really fun was the Sudden Death special battle in Melee
[00:58:57] <%Arcticblast> Brawl has it too
[00:58:58] <@V4> We used to play Bob-omb catch
[00:59:00] <~Zarel> hm
[00:59:05] <@V4> Where we would toss them at each other
[00:59:07] <%Arcticblast> oh, that's not in Brawl
[00:59:08] <~Zarel> also Toxic + Poison Heal + Entrainment
[00:59:08] <@V4> and if you didnt catch it
[00:59:10] <@V4> you died
[00:59:11] <~Zarel> would do it too
[00:59:37] <~Zarel> also keep a Hydration + Entrainment + Rain Dance mon in case your target got statused
[00:59:45] <@woodchuck> this is with ingrain right
[00:59:59] <~Zarel> this is with Ingrain+Aquaring
[01:00:07] <~Zarel> your opponent doesn't even need to be holding lefties
[01:00:36] <~Zarel> man, remember when 25%maxhp/turn was enough to ensure a pokemon faints :|
[01:00:36] <@woodchuck> lol
[01:01:16] <~Zarel> you can force your opponent to Aquaring the same way you force them to Ingrain
[01:01:48] <~Zarel> man
[01:01:50] <@woodchuck> by stalling them out of the rest of their moves?
[01:01:54] <~Zarel> yeah
[01:01:55] <~Zarel> we should report this to Game Freak