DeathSyn and the insufficiency of 'libertarianism'

Death_Syn
I tend to buy yokohama when it comes to tires
Death_Syn
my stinger came with michelin pilot sport 4s
Death_Syn
probably going to replace with yokohama advan sport A/S+
13:32 Death_Syn
when these wear down
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infspire
Death_Syn: Are you a Trump supporter?
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b30wulf has set topic: <drPrimate> if china had AI they would probably attempt to make capitalism fail
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Death_Syn
infspire: no
infspire
Thank you.
Death_Syn
The last time I didn't vote a straight L ticket was 2000
infspire
Death_Syn: Who do you plan on voting for this November?
Death_Syn
Jo Joregensen
Death_Syn
s/e//
bbbuni
are you serious?
bbbuni
you're just voting for Trump
infspire
Death_Syn: My politics are close to green politics. That is, I hate Joe Biden a pretty substantial amount and think he's terrible for the well-being of the USA. However, I think I have an even greater ethical duty to get rid of Trump, i.e. harm mitigation.
bbbuni
because taking a vote away from Biden is voting for Trump
infspire
How do you respond to that as somebody that won't be voting to get rid of Trump in November?
bbbuni
yes it is
bbbuni
trump is going to win because of all you idiots
infspire
bbbuni: I think it's pretty wild that somebody would vote for a third-party candidate that has no chance of winning in this election.
Death_Syn
bbbuni: in Txas, a vote not for trump hurts trump
bbbuni
bullshit
bbbuni
yeah
lockie has changed mode: -t
bbbuni
don't call me an idiot
infspire
Death_Syn: Not voting for Biden is mathematically equivalent to increasing Trump's votes by one.
bbbuni
you're the one voting for trump
bbbuni
you guys are just being ridiculous
bbbuni
you should know better
infspire
Biden has X votes and Trump has Y votes. The difference ix X - Y.
infspire
Add a vote to Y: X - (Y + 1) = X - Y - 1.
infspire
Now, remove a vote for Biden you could cast, but won't because of voting for an entity that will not win: (X - 1) - Y = X - Y - 1.
Death_Syn
^^
infspire
Death_Syn: You're libertarian. In the late 1920s and early 1930s, libertarians in the Weimar Republic worked with National Socialism to defeat democratic socialism and communism. What ethical duties do you have in 2020, learning from this event?
infspire
I presume you would not have liked, from your vantage point in 2020, to have helped National Socialism.
Death_Syn
it's all national socialism from my view
infspire
Can you explicate key elements of "all" in this context?
Death_Syn
any vote for a candidate that isn't committed to dismantling the government is a vote for bigger government which will inevitably be used against me
infspire
I see.
infspire
Death_Syn: Given you're for dismantling the American government, how would you defend yourself against various 4th-generation warfare operations by China and Russia against the United States?
infspire
For example, the ongoing hybrid-warfare operations against the 2020 election in which you'll be voting to "dismantle" the US government.
Death_Syn
the Soviet Union ran the US state department for half of the last century
infspire
Or, the ongoing amplification of anti-mask and anti-COVID-19 mitigation policies by China and Russia as part of a hybrid biowarfare operations?
infspire
Death_Syn: During which years?
Death_Syn
jerrycurl: the Soviet Union had agents installed at all levels (including the top for a while) of the State Department
infspire
Death_Syn: You are not addressing my claims.
infspire
You are mostly repeating your talking points, though.
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dini
hey bougyman
infspire
Which, I find, libertarians often do, as it's not an empirically sound ideology, but one based only on first principles.
infspire
Notably, engineering using only first principles is currently employed nowhere on Earth in any domain of engineering.
dini
bougyman: nuttin much. my tent and woodstove shipped this week
dini
ordering a composting toilet and small 400w solar kit soon
dini
oh man, I can't. I've got serious time issues
infspire
In every domain of engineering, there is an interaction between first principles, like the non-aggression principle, with empirical data gathered during iterative processes in prototypes are deployed in the real world.
dini
jerrycurl: Well I'm at an rv park for the summer after I sold my house this spring. prior to that it was parked at my house.
infspire
Notably, society is far more complex than engineering bridges, or large hadron colliders, or GPT-3.
infspire
As you weaken the United States, you strength anti-humanitarian governments -- worldwide -- in China and Russia.
infspire
As you strengthen the United States, you partially strengthen anti-humanitarian efforts -- worldwide -- emanating from the United States.
infspire
The goal, then, is to *appropriately* empower government in the right ways at the right times, while *appropriately* disempowering it in the right ways at the right times.
infspire
The function appropriate() is very hard to discern, and is the result of an intergenerational effort among humans.
infspire
Or, you an go with libertarian first principles that take into account very little empirical data.
infspire
That's my take, as a former American libertarian who integrated increasing amounts of empirical data and modified into green politics.
infspire
I will now set a timer for Death_Syn, as they made multiple claims and had core challenges to their positions made.
infspire
Prediction: No meaningful responses from Death_Syn on any questions, revealing them as a person who doesn't engage in #philosophy, which is inherently contradictory.
dini
bougyman: solar patio sounds awesome
infspire
Jorgensen has characterized the U.S. government's response to the COVID-19 pandemic as overly bureaucratic and authoritarian, calling restrictions on individual behavior such as stay-at-home orders and corporate bailouts, "the biggest assault on our liberties in our lifetime".[37][40][44]
infspire
infspire
infspire
Death_Syn: Who do you plan on voting for this November?
infspire
Death_Syn
infspire
Jo Joregensen
dini
Just wait until you need a vaccine and microchip with central bank digital currency wallet contained in the chip too
dini
in order to go anywhere or even work
infspire
So, Joregensen is an anti-mask conspiracy theorist.
dini
that's what's coming
infspire
Pretty impressive.
infspire
Imagine being a 'white' person, and thinking that being asked/required to wear a mask during a once-in-a-century pandemic is "the biggest assault on our liberties in our lifetime".
infspire
How pathetic.
infspire
It's not the spying by the government after 9/11.
dini
"once in a century pandemic" lololol
infspire
It's not the mistreatment and killing of Native Americans and 'blacks' by police.
infspire
dini: I put you on block with no expiration date.
infspire
It's not the employment of COINTELPRO by the US government to disrupt leftist groups in the United States.
infspire
It's not the gaslighting by the US government about weapons of mass destruction in the run-up to the 2003 Iraq War.
infspire
No, it's being required, in a once-in-a-century pandemic to wear a mask in public.
infspire
Jorgensen is now banned.
freekoala
1957 and 1968
infspire
All supporters of Jorgensen, that, at minimum do not address that topic in a satisfactory way are now banned.
infspire
freekoala: What are you referencing?
freekoala
nothing. never mind. i don't actually want to jump into anything.
infspire
1) Some people are born with more genetic resources than other people.
infspire
2) Those people do not want to overly contribute to society, as they're above average.
infspire
3) These people posit libertarian ideology, as society, they perceive primarily hurts them to help others.
infspire
4) You cannot build civilizations in this manner.
infspire
5) A global species, as humans are, coupled with our technological prowess in energy production, mass media, and transportation require us to participate in global civilization, independent of how we feel about it.
infspire
Death_Syn: Your time has expired.
infspire
You are now blocked for as long as there is a Trump in the White House. Next update: 2021-01-20 12:00 EST.