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Cointelegraph Convo with Bittrex Richie

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Jul 9th, 2014
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  1. [16:37] <IanCT> Hi, I have received information about a double withdraw problem on Bittrex
  2. [16:37] <IanCT> I was hoping to get a comment
  3. [16:39] <bittrex-richie> ?
  4. [16:39] <bittrex-richie> what do you mean?
  5. [16:45] <IanCT> I have received a chat convo that includes a user that received extra withdraws
  6. [16:46] <bittrex-richie> heh.. man never stays private...
  7. [16:46] <IanCT> nope
  8. [16:46] <bittrex-richie> yes... i caused a double withdrawal today when manually fixing a transaction too large issue. The system would never allow for it, but my manual mucking with the wallet caused it.
  9. [16:47] <IanCT> what caused the issue?
  10. [16:47] <bittrex-richie> me
  11. [16:47] <bittrex-richie> heh
  12. [16:48] <IanCT> but i mean, any transaction that is too large needs to be manually handled?
  13. [16:48] <bittrex-richie> do you know what the transaction too large bug is?
  14. [16:48] <bittrex-richie> i say "bug" but it may be by design
  15. [16:48] <bittrex-richie> and do i dare ask why your asking?
  16. [16:48] <IanCT> no im not familiar with it
  17. [16:49] <IanCT> I'm a writer for CoinTelegraph
  18. [16:49] <bittrex-richie> k..
  19. [16:49] <bittrex-richie> so the tx too large bug has to do with inputs and outputs
  20. [16:49] <bittrex-richie> imagine a jar and you put 500 pennies in ..
  21. [16:49] <bittrex-richie> that is synomous with people mining into wallets with a bunch of small deposits
  22. [16:50] <bittrex-richie> all bitcoin based clients have to collect inputs.. these deposits to create outputs
  23. [16:50] <bittrex-richie> but its only allowed to collect x numer of inputs
  24. [16:51] <bittrex-richie> so if someone wants to withdraw 2 dollars for example, it needs 200 pennies but its only allowed to take 100 items out of the jar
  25. [16:51] <bittrex-richie> so it fails.. and i have to manually covert the pennies into dime and nickels etc
  26. [16:51] <bittrex-richie> just a simpliefied analogy
  27. [16:52] <bittrex-richie> anyhow.. while trying to fix the wallet, i accdiently unpaid the user and caused the system to paid out again
  28. [16:52] <bittrex-richie> thats all
  29. [16:53] <IanCT> Well, it scared him enough to remove his funds, and during that process he says it happened again.
  30. [16:53] <bittrex-richie> the tx too large thing?
  31. [16:53] <bittrex-richie> it happens all the time with large withdrawals
  32. [16:53] <IanCT> a double withdrawl
  33. [16:53] <bittrex-richie> uhh.. thats untrue.
  34. [16:54] <bittrex-richie> i'd go back and check that fact
  35. [16:57] <IanCT> so is there any security concern here? And do you have the funds to back up all of your user accounts?
  36. [16:57] <bittrex-richie> no there is no security concern .. the system shuts everything down if the balances don't match up by itself...
  37. [16:57] <bittrex-richie> and what do you mean back up? if youre asking if our wallet matches our db.. absolutely
  38. [16:58] <bittrex-richie> the system wont' start if it doesnt
  39. [17:01] <IanCT> okay. But is this the only case of a double withdrawl that you are aware of?
  40. [17:06] <bittrex-richie> yup.. its the only time its ever happened... and it can only happen if i'm manully tryign to fix things... the system itself won't allow it
  41. [17:11] <IanCT> are you guys working on a fix, or is the tx too large issue (or whatever) by design?
  42. [17:15] <IanCT> also, in the chat that I have, you seem to imply that you were disappointed it was on such a large coin withdraw
  43. [17:16] <IanCT> According to the chat I was given you say "first time it ever happened and its on a huge payout"
  44. [17:20] <bittrex-richie> that is a bug with bitcoin clients...
  45. [17:20] <bittrex-richie> so theres nothing we can do to fix as far as i'm aware.
  46. [17:20] <bittrex-richie> i was disappointed the the one time i fucked up it was on a huge payout
  47. [17:21] <bittrex-richie> obviously it was our mistake and if we couldn't recover the funds, we'd have to cover the cost.
  48. [17:22] <IanCT> so how large is too large?
  49. [17:22] <bittrex-richie> depends on the coin...
  50. [17:22] <IanCT> well, for bitcoin.
  51. [17:23] <bittrex-richie> i dunno honestly... its not a matter of the size of the transaction
  52. [17:23] <bittrex-richie> its the sizes and number of the inputs that are needed for the transaction
  53. [17:23] <bittrex-richie> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=317233.0
  54. [17:23] <bittrex-richie> read taht
  55. [17:23] <bittrex-richie> they were having problems with amounts like .07
  56. [17:29] <IanCT> do you guys use coin control?
  57. [17:29] <bittrex-richie> no...
  58. [17:35] <IanCT> i think it is designed to fix that problem. But how often do you have to manually do transactions on a given day would you say?
  59. [17:36] <bittrex-richie> we don't do transactions manually
  60. [17:37] <IanCT> well, you did this time
  61. [17:37] <IanCT> I thoguht
  62. [17:37] <IanCT> thought
  63. [17:37] <bittrex-richie> no... we didn't do the transaction manually...
  64. [17:37] <bittrex-richie> we had to do the dust collection
  65. [17:37] <bittrex-richie> the system pays out everything
  66. [17:38] <bittrex-richie> and dust collection we've probably had to do a dozen or so times since they beginnging
  67. [17:39] <IanCT> okay, so run me through this one mroe time. User withdraws money, on your guys end its a tx too large error, and so then what happened?
  68. [17:39] <bittrex-richie> i have to go in and collect dust
  69. [17:40] <IanCT> but dust is small, like a few satoshis i thought
  70. [17:40] <bittrex-richie> yes so i have to collect as much dust as possible into a transcation
  71. [17:42] <IanCT> but how did the user end up with an extra 8-10BTC worth?
  72. [18:00] <bittrex-richie> cause i unpaid him accidiently
  73. [18:01] <bittrex-richie> so to simplify
  74. [18:01] <bittrex-richie> we try to pay user out.. get error.. and it keeps retrying
  75. [18:01] <bittrex-richie> i go and fix stuff
  76. [18:01] <IanCT> right
  77. [18:01] <IanCT> i get that
  78. [18:01] <bittrex-richie> it fixes and pays out
  79. [18:02] <bittrex-richie> i miss the fact that its fixed so i set his status back to unpaid
  80. [18:02] <bittrex-richie> so the worker sends out payment again
  81. [18:03] <bittrex-richie> its a matter of a stupid human went in to do something and missed a check the system normaly does
  82. [18:03] <bittrex-richie> the dust explanatino is nothing more than why i needed to manually intervene
  83. [18:03] <IanCT> okay, so thats what I was asking originally, How often do you have to go in and manually intervene?
  84. [18:04] <bittrex-richie> about a dozen times since the start...
  85. [18:04] <bittrex-richie> the longer a wallet is up and the more that is mined to it, the more likely it is to have tranactions size problems.
  86. [18:05] <bittrex-richie> and i think mun/jpc are the ones that have acted up.. todays the first time i've ever touched claok
  87. [18:06] <IanCT> in the chat you say the problem was with your wallet not the user's?
  88. [18:06] <bittrex-richie> erm.. in what context?
  89. [18:07] <IanCT> he said cloak seemed to be working fine you said "its our wallet.. because we have people mining into our wallet"
  90. [18:07] <bittrex-richie> yeah.. i meant this is not a problem with cloak...
  91. [18:08] <bittrex-richie> didnt' want anyone to panic to think there was something wrong with cloak... tahts how FUD usually starts.
  92. [18:13] <IanCT> So there is no concern here, other than that the tx too large requires manual attention?
  93. [18:14] <bittrex-richie> yup... this was human error
  94. [18:15] <IanCT> okay, thank you.
  95. [18:15] <bittrex-richie> np...
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