talking with Sara_KS

21:53	Sara_Ks	Kyrios Just exactly what do you mean by "Personal" experiences?
21:53	barabbas`	Kyrios Fine, as I said, If you are open to God, he will provide the evidence to  you that will convict and convince you. If you are not open to God, he will remain silent and apart from you.
21:53	Kyrios	so hopefully you can acknowledge that it is not the evidence I seek since it does not fit criteria that I would require in order to even consider it evidence.
21:53	Banquo	How can you be open to a god you aren't sure exists?
21:54	Kyrios	mugz: yes I am.
21:54	barabbas`	Kyrios So, again it is up to you, not me or anyone else to provide your evidence It is up to YOU and God. He sees the condition of your heart. If your heart/mind is open and you allow for him to enter into it, you will get the evidence that you can't refute.
21:54	Raven`X	Hello Sara_Ks.
21:54		Kyrios sighs.... ><
21:54	Sara_Ks	Hello Raven`X
21:54	Didache	Banquo your arguments - your comments are the same day in day out.. The question to you is, do you really want to know the answer or are you just devising mischief?
21:55	Kyrios	I'm supposed to try to explain what I mean when I say personal experience?
21:55	Banquo	Didache: Yes, I would like to know the answer.
21:55	mugz	Kyrios the Bible itself is evidence - now you can study it and chose to reject it as unconvincing, but it is evidence; every Christian who confesses to have been blessed with the gift of the Holy Spirit and to have a personal relationship with God as a result - is evidence - in any court of law witnesses testimony is evidence etc
21:55	Didache	Banquo what will you accept?
21:55	Banquo	Didache: It would be nice to get an answer and not someone asking me what answer I want.
21:56	Banquo	I think that's a reasonable request.
21:56	mugz	Kyrios again, you can say you dont know of any evidence but that just sounds stupid
21:56	Kyrios	mugz: I don't agree that 'the bible itself' is evidence
21:56	barabbas`	Banquo: Simple, you believe I am either telling the truth or lying to you. IF you believe I am telling you the truth, that God exists, then you know, by faith in what I am telling you that God is real. Now take the faith you have in me and tell God the same thing. Tell him you are a sinner in need of the salvation that only he can give. If you are genuine in this request, you will get
21:56	barabbas`	the evidence necessary to convince you. If, on the other hand, you believe I am lying, then all bets are off.
21:56	Kyrios	Is any op going to object to mugz just now saying that I sound stupid?
21:56	Kyrios	-_-
21:56	Didache	Banquo you have been given many answers why don't you accept them?
21:56	mugz	Kyrios well, it is a record that claims to be about Gods dealings with man - it would be the primary evidence
21:57	mugz	Kyrios to say that the Bible is not evidence again is just silly
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21:57	Banquo	Didache: I don't recall receiving an answer to that particular question, except just now from barabbas` which I find deeply flawed.
21:57	Banquo	Could you provide one, Didache?
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21:57	barabbas`	Banquo Now I am going to cut and paste what I just told you. I will repeat it back to you everytime you make the bogus claim that there is no evidence for God.
21:57	Kyrios	Sara_Ks: Hey, you still three?
21:57	Didache	Banquo as I have just come on line perhaps yoiu could refrase it
21:58	Raven`X	That's not jangles.
21:58	Banquo	Didache: ...Okay?
21:58	mugz	Kyrios have you studied the Bible?
21:58	mugz	Kyrios or are you just abitrarily rejecting it?
21:58	Kyrios	Sara_Ks: How does 'testimony from a person to have experienced _____" sound as an ad hoc definition for 'personal experience'
21:58	Banquo	Didache: I asked, "How can you be open to a god you aren't sure exists?"
21:58	mugz	Kyrios again, in any court of law personal testimony is evidence
21:59	Banquo	barabbas`: That's great, and everytime I will tell you that your statement is hardly evidence for god.
21:59	Didache	Banquo what makes you think I am not sure God exists?
21:59	mugz	Kyrios to say that personal testimony from a witness is not evidence is agian, just silly
21:59	Banquo	Didache: I did not say that
21:59	Kyrios	mugz: I'm not going to discuss this with you anymore, atm. good day.
21:59	Banquo	Didache: The 'you' in this case, is obviously a non-believer
21:59	barabbas`	Banquo So you admit that your intent is to just troll the channel with the same innane statement. Now we have something else to deal with. Thanks for the admission of your intent. God Bless
22:00	Banquo	barabbas`: Uh...no, I don't admit that
22:00	Banquo	nor did i come close to admitting that
22:00	Banquo	and that's not what is happening
22:00	Didache	Banquo fine... I then ask, what evidence of God will you accept?
22:00	Banquo	Didache: It would be nice to get an answer and not someone asking me what answer I want.
22:00	mugz	Kyrios your job should be to refute the evidence - if you can refute the Bible - lets see
22:01	Kyrios	mugz: I'm not going to discuss this with you anymore, atm. good day.
22:01	Kyrios	Please respect my decision in that regard.
22:01	Sara_Ks	Kyrios There is a problem with your concepts. You are claiming that if a person experienced______ its personal experience and not evidence. Please distinguish how that is different than "Scientist X observed Y in his experiment and reported it in his findings."  Both were personal experiences but one was done under the guise of an experiment and the other not.
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22:02	Kyrios	Sara_Ks: One moment.
22:02	mugz	Kyrios so, you are just trolling, you are not willing to discuss or refute the evidence, you just want to put your head in the sand and pretend it doesnt exist - I see...
22:02	Kyrios	Sara_Ks: I would very much like for you to help me out here.
22:02	Kyrios	Sara_Ks: Me and Didache have disagreed as to whether or not it is OK to debate the actions of an operator here, in the #christianOPs channel.
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22:02	barabbas`	Kyrios answer Sara_Ks question, I believe your answer will clear it all up for all of us.
22:02	Kyrios	Sara_Ks: Can you inform us whether or not that is oK?
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22:03		mugz yawns
22:03	Sara_Ks	Kyrios You can discuss any op action in #Cops unless it is a tired arguement
22:03	Kyrios	Didache: Please take note of what Sara_Ks has just said.
22:03	Didache	Banquo I have just delivered a lecture on history based on Deuteronomy 28.. The first thing I would ask.. have you read that chapter?  Having asked that the proof to me is the remarkable way the closing section of that chapter, the subject of my lecturee, conforms with the history... of the period from AD 66 to AD 135  it is that accurate that I cannot deny the existence of God
22:03	Kyrios	Didache: Do you acknowledge it?
22:03	Kyrios	barabbas`: going to try to answer her question, now.
22:04	Sara_Ks	Kyrios Can you now answer my question?
22:04	Kyrios	After that, though, I'm going to head to bed.
22:04	Banquo	Didache: Point me to the verses, I will read them.
22:04	Kyrios	Sara_Ks: yes, although I make no promises as to whether it will be one minute or several before i do.
22:04	Godric	id love to have a cup a coffee with a god and a nice conversation... that would be splended evidance
22:04	barabbas`	Godric Open your heart to God, he will " speak" to you as  you drink your coffee.
22:05	Godric	barabbas` conversation dosnt require that
22:05	mugz	events are unfolding just as the Bible and only the Bible foretold - this is very strong evidence of the supernatural nature of the Bible - unless someone can show me some other so-called "Holy Book" that has the same accuracy - I've never seen nor heard of one
22:05	Didache	Banquo I have, but verses 49 to 68.. You will of course need to know the events that unfolded in Israel between ad 6 and ad 135 in graphic detail
22:05	Raven`X	Speaking of #ChristianOps Sara_Ks, take a look in there : )
22:05		You are banned from the channel #Christianops
22:05	Godric	the 'open your heart' line to me is code for 'just believe ok?'
22:05	Banquo	Didache: Okay...and when were these verses written? Roughly?
22:05	Kyrios	Sara_Ks: I am banned from #christianops
22:06	Kyrios	Sara_Ks: Didache banned me from it, weeks ago, when I debated an action of his. Can you unban me from it? can you also ask him if he acknowledges that you, the channel founder, have stated it is OK to debate operator actions in there?
22:06	Kyrios	possibly months, by now.
22:06	Didache	Banquo at the time of Moses around 14oo BC
22:06	barabbas`	Godric It takes an open heart and a willingness to allow God into your heart if you want to have a conversation with him, over coffee or otherwise. Now if you don't want to meet him on his terms, that is fine with him, he won't meet you.
22:06	Banquo	Weird, Didache...Google says around 7th century BC
22:06	Banquo	But okay, let me take a look at those verses. One sec, okay?
22:07	Kyrios	Sara_Ks: We do not have to take the scientist's word that they observed Y. By following their methodogy, we can independently verify their claims.
22:07	mugz	ultmately it does boil down to a leap of faith - until you give your life to Christ, you cannot receive the Holy Spirit
22:07	Godric	barabbas` is it possible to have conversation without the woo of 'open your heart?'
22:07	Didache	Banquo not interested in what google says... Moses lived along time before threm
22:07		You are banned from the channel #Christianops
22:07	Didache	Banquo not interested in what google says... Moses lived along time before then
22:07	barabbas`	Kyrios and if you take my word and follow my methodology, you can verify my claim as well. So there is no difference.
22:07	mugz	but i found plenty of convincing evidence that gave me the courage to take that leap
22:08	Kyrios	Sara_Ks: In this way, there is an important difference between what I would refer to as a 'personal experience' and an independently verifiable observation.
22:08	Kyrios	barabbas`: No. What I would do by following your "methodology" is have a personal experience of my own.
22:08	Sara_Ks	Kyrios So, you admit though, that the reports of a scientist are reports of personal experiences. This is no different that many religious experiences, others can do the same things and get similar results
22:08	Kyrios	Sara_Ks: I do not admit that nor do I agree with that appraisal of it.
22:08	mugz	I could no more deny God now than I could deny that the sun and stars exist
22:08	Banquo	Didache: Okay, well I am interested in what google says, but let me look at those verses real quick. Is that okay with you?
22:09	Kyrios	Sara_Ks: can you please address my requests to be unbanned from #christianops and ask Didache if he acknowledges that you, the founder, have stated that it is OK to debate operatior actions in there?
22:09	barabbas`	Godric If you have to use childish buzz words like woo to discuss with, there is no reason to go on. You are not willing to do as God instructs. God Bless
22:09	mugz	Its really a wonderful thing, to become a child of God
22:09	Sara_Ks	Kyrios What a scientists sees is either a personal experience or not. Are you claiming its not a personal experience?
22:09	Didache	go for it
22:09	barabbas`	Kyrios Which is the same thing you will have if you follow the methodology of the scientist and experience Y.
22:09	Banquo	Didache: Okay, so first of all...those verses are extremely vague. And 6 AD and 135 AD is a looong time for those things to happen.
22:09	Kyrios	Sara_Ks: I've made numerous statements about your question.
22:09	Banquo	Things that I'm sure were very common at the time
22:10	Sara_Ks	Kyrios Yes, but none answer it
22:10	Kyrios	Sara_Ks: I will not make more until you answer whether or not you will unban me from #christianops and whether or not you will somehow get Didache to acknowledge that it is OK to debate operator actions in there.
22:10	Didache	Banquo actusally they weren't and you need to fully understand exactly what happened..
22:10	Banquo	Didache: Actually, they are.
22:10	Banquo
22:11	Banquo	Didache: I imagine a LOT happened between 6 AD and 135 AD
22:11	Banquo	Most of it unrecorded.
22:11	Sara_Ks	Kyrios My question was asked first, I will not be extorted into acting. Either answer my question or not
22:11	Kyrios	Sara_Ks: Do you agree that I have already endeavored to answer?
22:11	Sara_Ks	no. I saw nothing addressing my question
22:11	Kyrios	....
22:12	Kyrios	I will quote the question
22:12	Didache	Banquo again, you say they were.. hidstory dsays they weren't... further the whole chapter gives a short summary of the History of Israel from the time of Moses onwards.. Now an y one can say it is vague.. Read Josephus and examine what happened
22:12	Banquo	Didache: The statements ARE vague
22:12	Kyrios	22:01	Sara_Ks	Kyrios There is a problem with your concepts. You are claiming that if a person experienced______ its personal experience and not evidence. Please distinguish how that is different than "Scientist X observed Y in his experiment and reported it in his findings."  Both were personal experiences but one was done under the guise of an experiment and
22:13	Kyrios	Sara_Ks: now, that isn't a question so much as a request.
22:13	Banquo	The Lord will bring a nation against you from far away, from the ends of the earth, like an eagle swooping down, a nation whose language you will not understand <-- this is vague
22:13	Kyrios	Sara_Ks: However, is that what you are refering to that you do not feel that I have adequately addressed?
22:13	Didache	Banquo there were three Jewish Roman wars .. there was the seige of Jerusalem.. it is easy to pass it off until you read the history
22:13	Kyrios	Sara_Ks: Or is it something else?
22:13	barabbas`	Kyrios Equivocations won't help you. It is a question. Now it is time for you to answer it.
22:13	Banquo	Didache: You mean a huge empire conquered a land and destroyed a temple they viewed as pagan?
22:14	Kyrios	barabbas`: I am verifying that she was in fact referring to it, and it was not a question. :|
22:14	Banquo	Didache: that is not really much of a prophecy
22:14	barabbas`	Kyrios Answer the question.
22:14	Sara_Ks	Kyrios What is the difference between my reporting something I experience and what a scientist sees in reporting his experience? Both are personal reports
22:14	Didache	and Banquo when you read the History they are not vague.. you must be careful that you wan t to know and not just deny
22:14	Kyrios	Sara_Ks: Ty for restating.
22:14	mugz	in Deuteronomy 28-30 Moses tells the entire history of Israel - the birth, death and ressurection - even though the world-wide diaspora did not occur until hundreds of hears later - he also predicted the ressurectin of Israel that we see today - all the prohpets, Jesus and the Apostles continued this theme - it is the primary theme of Biblical prophecy and its quite amazing
22:15	Kyrios	Sara_Ks: We do not have to take the scientist's word that they observed Y. By following their methodogy, we can independently verify their claims.
22:15	Banquo	Didache: The bible's statements ARE vague
22:15	mugz	!kjv luke 21:24
22:15	BibleBot	Luke21:24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled. (KJV)
22:15	Banquo	so it is easy to take a common historical event and apply it to the verses, Didache
22:15	Didache	mugz the diaspora was ultimate in 135AD
22:15	mugz	Jesus summed it up right there
22:15	Sara_Ks	Kyrios So can we do that with my observation. So far, you haven't shown any difference
22:15	Kyrios	Sara_Ks: We are able to independently verify the scientist's claim.
22:15	Didache	Banquo actually it is not
22:15	barabbas`	Kyrios It is my contention that there is no difference between the personal experience of the scientist when he observes X and the personal experience I had when I observed God. Can you refute this?
22:15	Banquo	Actually it is
22:15	Starbase93	mugz I have read and witnessed too much not to believe. None of the arguements of any atheist can change my beliefs.
22:16	Banquo	Please do not insult my intelligence, Didache
22:16	Sara_Ks	Kyrios We can do the same with my experience
22:16	Kyrios	Sara_Ks: how?
22:16	Didache	Banquo your comments are unfortunately predictable.. have a nice night
22:16	Banquo	Bye Didache
22:16	mugz	Didache if you are really deep into this - some historains claim that Jerusalem was relcaimed during the Bar-Kochba revolt - however none of the coins they minted has ever been found in Jerusalem
22:17	Didache	mugz i LECTURED ON IT LAST EVENING
22:17	Sara_Ks	Just do as I did and see what happens. I had an experience which convinced me God exists. So have others and some perhaps with the exact same as mine
22:17	Didache	 caps lock.. sorry
22:17	Raven`X	Didache, enhance your calm.
22:17	Kyrios	I don't think my own personal experience counts as evidence.
22:17	mugz	Didache I sorta got that - just adding a tidbit
22:17	Raven`X	You seem to be very angry and agitated.
22:17	Kyrios	I also don't think it is independently verifiable.
22:17	Kyrios	Sara_Ks: Are you now satisfied that I have answered your question?
22:18	mugz	Didache the entire line of Biblical prophecy goes back to those 3 chapters
22:18	mugz	Moses rocked!
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22:18	Didache	mugz next one I cover from 1848 to the resent time
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22:18	Sara_Ks	Kyrios So if your personal experience is a scietific experiment, it doesnt count as evidence?
22:18	Forest`	hello
22:18	Raven`X	Hi Forest`.
22:18	Forest`	hi Raven`X
22:18	Didache	mugz I know
22:18	cometzero	science is peer reviewed
22:19	barabbas`	cometzero; I am Sara_Ks peer, I reviewed it and found it legitimate
22:19	Kyrios	Sara_Ks: My claim about it doesn't. The data does, and my argument is research is worthwhile, other humans can independently verify my findings and gather the data for themselves in order to verify my claim that I found the data.
22:19	mugz	Didache those passages were what convinced me to become a Chrsitian
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22:19	Kyrios	*and IF my research is worthwhile
22:19	Kyrios	I kind of left a few words in there that didn't belong. Oops.
22:19	Raven`X	Are there any scientists who come to this channel?
22:20	Sara_Ks	Kyrios That can be done with religious claims as well
22:20	Kyrios	Sara_Ks: I would be delighted to see an example of that.
22:20	Sara_Ks	Raven`X Yes
22:20	Didache	mugz when it comes to accepting the existence of God, I avoid the "personal experience proof"   That is ever only convincing to the person that claims to have had the personal experience. To the rest it is mumbo jumbo
22:20	Raven`X	Who?
22:20	mugz	Kyrios if you want evidence for God, study the history of the Jews
22:20	Kyrios	Sara_Ks: Is the re something more I can do to help you understand my position and why I differentiate between those thigns?
22:20	Didache	mugz I can understand that
22:21	Kyrios	barabbas`: i'm not sure about 'refuting it' but I certainly disagree with it.
22:21	cometzero	evidence is subject to peer review
22:21	Didache	mugz Isaiah 43:9-14 comes to mind
22:21	Kyrios	barabbas`: If I was going to stay around for a longer time tonight, I'd try to refute it right now.
22:21	Kyrios	as it is, maybe we can address it tomorrow.
22:21	barabbas`	Kyrios on what grounds? How is either one NOT a personal experience?
22:22	barabbas`	sure, good night.
22:22	Kyrios	barabbas`: I'm not going to try to refute it right now. atm I want to try to completely satisfy sara's question, and then get sara to address my concerns about #christianOPs
22:22	mugz	!kjv isa 43:9
22:22	BibleBot	Isa43:9 Let all the nations be gathered together, and let the people be assembled: who among them can declare this, and shew us former things? let them bring forth their witnesses, that they may be justified: or let them hear, and say, It is truth. (KJV)
22:22	Kyrios	If you remember to ask me about this when I have more time, I'll work on it.
22:22	Sara_Ks	Kyrios You really haven't differentiated. For example. I have had a personal experience that Joes diner has good food. You are saying that isn't good evidence. However, others can go to Joes Diner and claim the same thing, it has good food. This is all personal experiences, but valid. Its valid to draw a conclusion Joes has good food, based on the personal experiences of people who
22:22	Sara_Ks	ate there
22:22	mugz
22:23	Kyrios	Sara_Ks:
22:23	Kyrios	Sara_Ks: Would you at least concede that I have TRIED to differentiate, even if you posit that I have failed to do so?
22:23	cometzero	mugz: history of the jews is history of the jews. when you have peer reviewed evidence of a god, i look forward to it.
22:23	barabbas`	Kyrios You can use #christianops to discuss an ops actions with you. to get a clarification about your kick, devoice etc. You can't use it to badger, complain, ridicule etc other ops or their actions with other chatters.
22:23	Starbase93	Sara_Ks And many people depend upon those personal reviews of restaurants.
22:24	Kyrios	barabbas`: Look, you're trying to be helpful and I appreciate that.
22:24	mugz	Didache may are convinced by personal testimony though - they come easly - I had to be convinced first
22:24	mugz	may/many
22:24	Sara_Ks	Kyrios Maybe you have tried, but you haven't made your point, sorry.. Personal reviews..experiences in this case is valid evidence
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22:24	Kyrios	barabbas`: but I have been banned from #christianOPS for weeks (maybe months, now?) because didache banned me from it on the claim that I was not allowed to debate operator actions in there. That is why I am trying to have Sara_Ks clarify the issue.
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22:25	Kyrios	Sara_Ks: Will you unban me from #christianOPS pretty please?
22:25	Banquo	lol
22:25	mugz	heh
22:25	Kyrios	it's an important resource to use when dealing with the operators here.
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22:25	Didache	mugz of course... the proof must be by hearing reading and seeing
22:25	Didache	Isa 43:9  Let all the nations be gathered together, and let the people be assembled: who among them can declare this, and shew us former things? let them bring forth their witnesses, that they may be justified: or let them hear, and say, It is truth.
22:25	Didache	Isa 43:10  Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.
22:25	Didache	Isa 43:11  I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.
22:26		mugz gets goose bumps when he reads stuff like that
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22:27		You are banned from the channel #Christianops
22:28	Kyrios	Sara_Ks: ?
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22:29	Sara_Ks	Personal experiences are one of the greatest means we have of knowing things, of communicating. Its valid even in religion. If we discount those experiences, we discount the experiences of Abraham, Moses, Joseph, Mary and even Jesus. They all experienced things in life and we need to accept those experiences. If follows in life, much of what we are taught comes from someones personal
22:29	Sara_Ks	experiences, thats how we gain knowledge, then we can pass it on
22:29	Kyrios
22:30	Banquo	Wow.
22:30	Sara_Ks	We DO have to be careful of what we accept. In science, we have peer review to help, in life we have trust, credibility
22:31	Kyrios	Sara_Ks: I am begging you here. I want to resolve this before I head to bed.
22:31	Kyrios	Kyrios: Will you or will you not unban me from #christianOPs so that I am able to use it as an avenue for redress if I disagree with an operator's actions
22:31	Kyrios	oops.
22:31	Kyrios	Sara_Ks: Will you or will you not unban me from #christianOPs so that I am able to use it as an avenue for redress if I disagree with an operator's actions
22:32	Sara_Ks	Kyrios I don't know. I'm checking
22:32	Didache	Sara_Ks Abraham, Moses, Joseph, Mary and even Jesus these had a visitation from an angel.. The open vision is no longer given.. They after that had personal experience but to most people "having an experience" is just so much bunkum.. there is no basis for any one to accept it except for the person who had it
22:32	Banquo	lol
22:34	mugz	Didache I would say that depends on how much you trust the person that is giving you the testimony
22:34	Kyrios	Sara_Ks: Would you be willing to /memo me when you make a decision, as I really need to get going in order to make it to work at 6am?
22:34	Sara_Ks	Didache When we trust someone, we can trust their experience. How could you teach a child otherwise? You impart your personal experiences, they learn from it. Sure you need some trust, but its still by personal experience. When you are learning a new job.. someone with experience teaches you. If they are experienced, you have reason to trust their training
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22:34	Didache	mugz that could be a consideration.. and trust has to be built.. it doesn't just happen
22:34	cometzero	i trust peer review
22:35	Didache	Sara_Ks trust has to be built.. it doesn't just happen
22:35	Sara_Ks	Didache of course
22:35	Kyrios	Didache: may I have a moment of your time in PM?
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22:35	mugz	Didache well, when I started to become convinced of the supernatural truths of the Bible, I started understanding what other Christians had been trying to tell me, and those personal testimonies did play a part in my decision to take that "leap of faith"
22:36	Didache	mugz but you started to build something first..
22:37	mugz	Didache ya, but I envy those who came more easily than I did - sorta - it was hard for me and easy for them
22:38	mugz	anways - gota work tomorrow
22:38	mugz	nite Didache, Sara_Ks - all
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22:42		*** exbeee quit (Ping timeout)
22:43	CBon	so, what's on the burner that's cookin.?
22:45	CBon	y'all all sleepin'?
22:45	Joel	hi CBon
22:46	Starbase93	No, hi CBon
22:46	CBon	Hi Joel, anything stimulating the religious nerve this evening?








22:38	Didache	what other nicks have you used?  I have no recollection of banning you
22:38	Kyrios	Octavian
22:38	Kyrios	I only switched to Kyrios for the first time in months, today, after a discussion in the channel gave me the urge.
22:38		*** Kyrios is now known as Octavian
22:38	NickServ	Password accepted for Octavian.
22:38	NickServ	*Warning* You have a pending email change request. If you did not request this change, please /join #OperHelp for further assistance.
22:39	Octavian	I just identified for octavian, if you had any doubts about me having that nick.
22:39	Didache	ok... but as octavian we have been conversing in recent days
22:39	Octavian	So, I imagine you noticed me asking sara questions about whether or not we are allowed to debate operator activity in #christianOPs
22:39	Octavian	if you recall, you banned me from that channel either weeks or months ago
22:40	Octavian	and your position was that it was not OK to debate operator decisions in there.
22:40	Didache	'ohh but only for a short time .. long forgotten
22:40	Octavian	the ban is still in place
22:40	Octavian	I can't go in it
22:40		You are banned from the channel #Christianops
22:40	Octavian	22:40		You are banned from the channel #Christianops
22:41	Octavian	I didn't realize it was still in place, until today
22:41	Octavian	Raven said there was something being discussed in there
22:41	Octavian	and due to curiousity, I tried to join it.
22:41	Octavian	and noticed the ban.
22:41	Didache	not in #christianDebate and we don't debate op decisions in #cops -- there was a lot of tying up of ops in ops for anything up to an hour
22:41	Octavian	Sara was around, so I decided to take the opportunity to ask Sara if it is appropriate to discuss operator actions in there.
22:42	Didache	hmmmm discuss yes..
22:42	Didache	can yu get in there now?
22:42	Octavian	22:03   Sara_Ks Kyrios You can discuss any op action in #Cops unless it is a tired arguement
22:42	Octavian	I'd like to make sure you and me are both on the same page about what that means
22:43		You are banned from the channel #Christianops
22:43	Octavian	(cannot get in there now)
22:43	Didache	and provided it is not a prolonged drawn out discussion that is going no where
22:43	Octavian	yeah that sounds reasonable
22:43	Octavian	I'm going to sleep now
22:44	Octavian	being banned or not from #christianops can get sorted out another time, imo
22:44	Octavian	Thank you for talking this through with me
22:44	Octavian	It's nice to come to an amicable solution I think
22:45	Didache	there is nothing in the ban list
22:45		You are banned from the channel #Christianops
22:45	Didache	ok...
22:45	Octavian	maybe chuckwagon can sort things out?
22:45	Octavian	I think he was able to figure out an akick from the bot that had you stumped, months ago
22:45	Octavian	not sure if you recall that or not
22:46	Didache	sarah can remover it
22:46	Didache	I will talk to her
22:47	Octavian	Ty
22:47	Didache	'np
22:47	Octavian	so if I rememember my aussie timezone conversions
22:47	Octavian	it should be about
22:47	Octavian	2PM for you, right?
22:47	Octavian	good afternoon
22:47	Didache	3:00
22:47	Octavian	ack
22:47	Didache	sarah has lifted it
22:47	Octavian	DST times... heh
22:48	Didache	try to enter now
22:48	Octavian	just changed our clocks back an hour, on the 1st
22:48	Didache	yes DST
22:48	Octavian	worked
22:48	Didache	we dont have it ion qld
22:48	Octavian	what is qld
22:49	Didache	queensland
22:49	Octavian	ah.
22:49	Octavian	Once more, good afternoon.
22:49	Octavian	ta ta for now
22:50	Didache	cya have a good sleep