Esoteric Buddhist experiences

EonEcho
https://twitter.com/DegenRolf/status/1219857051838488582
EonEcho
I like this study.
TrollT
mooty, Compare Kung Fu Tse and Meng Tse.
EonEcho
You need religion to be moral...
EonEcho
...unless you have a high IQ.
TrollT
Eon, Just dual-level, then?
EonEcho
Well, they just looked at these two variables in this study.
14:45 TrollT
I've compared 'training wheels' before.
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TrollT
I think also Needleman in "Lost Christianity" makes note of this difference, and numerous New Agers do too.
TrollT
"The religion is for the ignorant (unwashed?) masses. The esoteric doctrines encourage the mastery and power of those who are ready."
AtheistFx
mooty: are you aware of a religion claiming to have multiple simultaneous sources and containing the same uncorrupted message?
mooty
no
TrollT
AFx, Excellent.
TrollT
This may be a limitation of Gods.
TrollT
I.e. Gods do not have the capacity to do that.
TrollT
Perhaps a combination with human beings.
EonEcho
TrollT: The esoteric doctrines of Christianity seem fine to me, but nothing special.
TrollT
CW, Darn. It isn't a quote, itis a sort of paraphaphrase of the doctrines expressed.
EonEcho
For example, the esoteric doctrines of Buddhism, to me, are simply incomparable to those of Christianity.
EonEcho
The esoteric claims of Buddhism are truly stupendous.
EonEcho
Christianity sort of seems like an opening, initially sophisticated position in the intergenerational conversation of philosophy of existence.
EonEcho
Buddhism seems a possible final answer.
AtheistFx
TrollT: it could be, or such sources remain undiscovered for now
EonEcho
I've had some experiences in the context of Buddhist ideology that are extraordinary.
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EonEcho
I have been able to entire dissolve the notion of self and recognize I am the entire universe.
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EonEcho
And part of me has emerged into the form of EonEcho, while other forms of me are walls and water and birds.
EonEcho
Some parts of myself are aware of this, and we can greet one another and smile.
EonEcho
Most of me is not aware of this.
EonEcho
I've dissolved myself into a trillion, trillion atoms each with a puppet's string connected to them articulated by 'self'.
EonEcho
I've peered upward, moving beyond the puppet hand and looked down as EonEcho's body ambulated and reacted to existence.
EonEcho
I've stepped outside human existence and recognized it is a game we're all downloaded into but everybody think it is 'real'.
EonEcho
You can just stop playing.
AtheistFx
are you now 'headless' EonEcho ?
mooty
its the matrix yo
buddhist
Mickey52: that is the last desire we disconnect from, right before full awakening
EonEcho
I've seen myself as the solar system with my tendrils of energy floating down to Earth, locally inverting entropy to create solutions to environmental variation, aka life.
CriticalPurple
So, it takes desire to get rid of desire LOL
EonEcho
I've noted that it would be quite logical to reform the atoms of all life on Earth, including EonEcho, into other shapes for new insights.
AtheistFx
this is beginning to sound like japanese tentacle horror...
AtheistFx
*cough*
buddhist
Mickey52: I disagree. If I have a desire to go to a town, when I reach that town, the desire to go there no longer exists.
EonEcho
AtheistFx: What does it mean to be 'headless'.
EonEcho
AtheistFx: I spend most of my time as a somewhat mindful human ape named EonEcho.
CriticalPurple
Then ya have the desire to get home
CriticalPurple
And your desire not to be killed in traffic
EonEcho
But, on a few occasions, I have stepped outside of human existence.
EonEcho
Buddhism esoteric ideology speaks of this as relatively 'basic' experiences.
buddhist
Mickey52: The desire itself serves as fuel for the practice for disconnection from all other desires first.
CriticalPurple
I like the words of a recent country song: I have everything I need and nothing that I don't.
AtheistFx
EonEcho: dispensing with the self, i guess, according to the ideas of Douglas Harding..
EonEcho
Each of these was, perhaps, the second jhana out of eight.
buddhist
Mickey52: That is not the goal of the path until the very end.
EonEcho
That is, for what it's worth -- maybe it means nothing -- Buddhism is such a developed system that extraordinary events like I just described are part of the doctrine.
EonEcho
And they've categorized such experiences into a hierarchy of experiences.
EonEcho
So, it's 'standard' ground in that system.
EonEcho
What does Christianity offer in this regard?
EonEcho
Almost the entire system is just movement towards compassion and narratives to assuage death.
EonEcho
I find there's almost nothing there.
EonEcho
It feels semi-empty to me.
CriticalPurple
Wahy are there so many Buddhist if desire is a bad thing? Seems like they would nto reproduce
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EonEcho
AtheistFx: I'm not familiar with Douglas Harding.
EonEcho
Do you wish to expound some on his ideas?
CriticalPurple
ChuckWagon Religious Jabawocky
EonEcho
CriticalPurple: The goal of Buddhism is to end existence.
EonEcho
It's a recognition we're in a game of evolution and to just step off the train.
EonEcho
However, which beings can do that?
EonEcho
Only those who are highly aware, i.e. a small percentage of humans let alone life.
EonEcho
So, imagine all highly aware Buddhist beings stepped off the train of evolution and life.
AtheistFx
EonEcho: no, just someone I came across recently via a podcast
CriticalPurple
lets take commonly used words and redefine them into some mystic mumbo jumbo and POW! Enlightenment! Give me a break.
TrollT
CW, The doctrines are esoteric which are usually more liberal and choice-bound, sometimes checking in with a special aspect of prayer. :"Is it true?" I find New Agers confirm it in multiple cultures around the globe. It has its names.
EonEcho
What would happen then? Then, the rest of life would continue to exist. Presumably, in time, some of that life would become aware like Buddhists, again, and they'd regenerate Buddhist ideology if the old Buddhist ideology was lost.
EonEcho
They would then choose to step out of existence, too.
EonEcho
And so this cycle might continue for as long as their is life.
TrollT
AFx, I'm unsure to which undiscovered sources you refer.
EonEcho
Buddhist ideology speaks of this in more narrative terms.
TrollT
CW, You're projecting a term i don't agree is real.
CriticalPurple
Learning a differnet language to know the truth, means the truth is being hid from everone except the "ELITE"
CriticalPurple
The elite being those who decide what the words mean
EonEcho
CriticalPurple: Buddhists are not in hyper-detached states at all moments.
TrollT
CW, "True" as if it is solid, monolithic, etc. It matches with the experience of those who assess it, so yes.
CriticalPurple
wnat me to know "the truth"> Write it down in my language
TrollT
"that he refuses to do" - LOL
EonEcho
Buddhist teaching specifically addresses this in Tripitaka.
EonEcho
For example, when I recognized all of my atoms were a puppet cohered by Self, I became 'psychotic'.
EonEcho
I looked at a family member and I saw they were just a puppet, too.
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TrollT
CW, "the name Buddha... Buddhism" - Many in the traditions call it 'The Dharma' and don't like the Western notion of 'Buddhism' (in fact many 'isms' are Western fabrications).
EonEcho
They didn't exist. They just thought they existed. I thought about the meaning of deconstructing their atoms into new shapes.
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CriticalPurple
I am Celtic and American Indian, there is no reason I need to learn Arabic to know the truth
AtheistFx
TrollT: I meant that we may yet discover archaeological evidence of a religion which originated in multiple simultaneous sources and had the same uncorrupted message, although it seems unlikely..
EonEcho
Anything like human morality didn't exist, as those were just guidelines of the human puppets that are contingent on there existing beings.
TrollT
CW, I explained my difficulty with your language the best i was able. We disagree about the utility of that term.
EonEcho
I imagined what would happen if I were to deconstruct this family member into different parts.
TrollT
AFx, Oh! Thanks, of course.
EonEcho
They would wail, and exclaim, "You're killing me!" because they know they exist.
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EonEcho
That is, they are not aware they're the universe and cannot die.
EonEcho
Since all of this is a standard experience, the Tripitaka prohibits Buddhist monks from performing such actions while in these states.
EonEcho
Why?
EonEcho
You will eventually leave these states and return to human life.
mooty walks through dissolved EonEcho.
EonEcho
And then you will look down at the machine you made out of 'human' body parts and you will suffer.
EonEcho
CriticalPurple: You also mentioned 'Why do Buddhists avoid traffic?'
CriticalPurple
AtheistFx I read archeology magazine at least once a day, and I see no evidence of that.
EonEcho
Depending on Buddhist ideology, the central object isn't to reach 'nirvana', whatever that is.
TrollT
CW, It just means that we will have difficulty coming to an understanding about that dual-level approach which i outlined.
EonEcho
In Mahayana Buddhism -- the largest of all Buddhist sects -- the central object is to free other beings from suffering.
AtheistFx
CriticalPurple: sure, I'm just keeping an open mind. :)
EonEcho
One cannot do this is one is non-existent.
CriticalPurple
Restroom. Best place to read
TrollT
CW, Presume that it is therefore NOT true, especially until you can see that it matches with your experience.
EonEcho puts CriticalPurple into non-existence for three days