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Jul 10th, 2013
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  1. [13:20] <DonQuixote> "Ramen is ramen," Kyuubey says from his plac behind the counter. "No matter where you are, ramen will taste exactly like you remember it."
  2. 01[13:20] <Moirai> true, but usually not really worth the hassle
  3. [13:21] <~Bozwevial> I definitely need to read MGNQ
  4. [13:22] <Drammor> Depending on the kind ramen.
  5. 01[13:23] <Moirai> it's QB
  6. 01[13:23] <Moirai> he'd eat himself if he could
  7. [13:24] <~Bozwevial> He can and does
  8. [13:26] <Drammor> That's...
  9. 02[13:26] * sirpercival ([email protected]) Quit (Quit: sirpercival)
  10. [13:26] <Drammor> what she said?
  11. [13:45] <~Bozwevial> So veekie, jumping back to the timefuck
  12. 01[13:46] <Moirai> yeah
  13. 01[13:46] <Moirai> you got the simple forms
  14. 01[13:46] <Moirai> accel, deccel
  15. 01[13:46] <Moirai> those are idiot proof, with only game balance effects
  16. [13:47] <~Bozwevial> Also the obligatory I go even more firster move
  17. 01[13:47] <Moirai> it can be complexified with differential accelerations
  18. 01[13:47] <Moirai> like you boost the body's experience of time, but not the mind's
  19. 01[13:47] <Moirai> so you get rapid aging etc
  20. [13:48] <Drammor> Doesn't the iaijutsu master have an I go even more firster ability?
  21. 01[13:49] <Moirai> stoppage proper gets messy
  22. 01[13:49] <Moirai> since it effectively implies a parallel time flow
  23. 01[13:49] <Moirai> or you wouldn't be able to observe the stoppage
  24. [13:49] <~Bozwevial> Drammor: Yeah, if you're in melee range
  25. [13:50] <Drammor> You could do that on a larger scale.
  26. [13:50] <Drammor> More range, that is.
  27. 01[13:51] <Moirai> then you got time parallization
  28. [13:51] <Drammor> Paralyzation?
  29. [13:51] <Drammor> Paralysis?
  30. [13:52] <~Bozwevial> Parallel
  31. [13:52] <Drammor> Parallelization?
  32. 01[13:52] <Moirai> that is, you split off a section of time for some people, or a certain space
  33. 01[13:52] <Moirai> it's a stock thing for modern fantasy, since it's handy for upholding the masquerade
  34. 01[13:53] <Moirai> time goes on just fine outside, and time goes on just fine inside
  35. [13:53] <Drammor> You pursue a different thread of causal events in two-dimensional time. :D I'm familiar with that one!
  36. 01[13:53] <Moirai> but the inside does not affect the outside, nor vice versa
  37. 01[13:53] <Moirai> that one is a bit more complicated to work with
  38. 01[13:54] <Moirai> since you CAN weaponize it
  39. 01[13:55] <Moirai> and of course, merging the streams after you split it off
  40. [13:55] <Drammor> I made a character who can do that as a special power. She splits her timeline off from the primary line by changing her personal timeline from one to two dimensional, and the later rejoins the regular timestream, except that her personal timeline moves slightly faster than the primary stream, thus giving her upwards of several seconds of something like precognition right after she
  41. [13:55] <Drammor> resynchs.
  42. [13:55] <~Bozwevial> Oh goddammit, Monte Cook's on the team for the new Torment game
  43. [13:56] <~Bozwevial> Though I think he's just a setting writer
  44. [13:56] <Drammor> Alright
  45. 01[13:56] <Moirai> in this case, the basic consideration is that things happen in one place, but different times
  46. [13:56] <Drammor> I have to sleep. I don't want to, but I do work tomorrow, and I have to be on my A-game if I want to keep my job.
  47. 01[13:57] <Moirai> you also can consider it santa claus time
  48. [13:57] <Drammor> Good night, guys
  49. 01[13:57] <Moirai> somehow instantly delivering to all kiddies all times
  50. 02[13:58] * Drammor ([email protected]) Quit
  51. 01[13:58] <Moirai> then there's information transmission
  52. 01[13:58] <Moirai> past AND future
  53. 01[13:59] <Moirai> simple base problem, assuming the past or future is set in stone
  54. 01[13:59] <Moirai> set in stone is highly problematic for GMs
  55. 01[13:59] <Moirai> since you wind up with Divination TO
  56. 01[14:00] <Moirai> where questions can be asked but not answered
  57. 01[14:01] <Moirai> then time-portation, where you reach a certain time without crossing the intervening time
  58. 01[14:01] <Moirai> aka time travel
  59. 01[14:03] <Moirai> the problem
  60. 01[14:03] <Moirai> static destinations?
  61. 01[14:03] <Moirai> you certainly need limitations
  62. 01[14:03] <Moirai> it's like teleporting
  63. 01[14:03] <Moirai> except you take possible teleport destinations and multiply them by possible times
  64. 01[14:04] <Moirai> the GM cannot plausibly generate the required scenarios
  65. 01[14:04] <Moirai> throw in time loops, splitting timelines and paradox, and you got a splitting headache
  66. [14:04] <~Bozwevial> Basically the issue is one of bookkeeping
  67. [14:05] <~Bozwevial> The mere existence of a temporal reiteration effect means you have to keep track of all combat data
  68. 01[14:05] <Moirai> use of probabilistic time is also bad, because players don't feel attachments
  69. 01[14:05] <Moirai> naw, more a matter of short time time travel
  70. 01[14:05] <Moirai> for long distances you don't have to care about the gritty
  71. 01[14:05] <Moirai> but you do need to be able to predict how many moments you can hit
  72. [14:05] <~Bozwevial> Yeah, eight months ago is less complex than eight rounds ago
  73. 01[14:06] <Moirai> so one idea
  74. [14:06] <~Bozwevial> But if you can jump back eight rounds you need to keep track of what goes on
  75. 01[14:06] <Moirai> 5 dimensional time, as a spiderweb
  76. 01[14:06] <Moirai> you can cross over at junctions and even cross back
  77. 01[14:06] <Moirai> different pasts can lead to the same present
  78. 01[14:07] <Moirai> *this is the only practical course of usable time travel when you can change the definition of past and present by moving up and down the stream*
  79. [14:07] <~Bozwevial> So basically a la Night Watch
  80. 01[14:07] <Moirai> what happens when you change something in the past
  81. 01[14:07] <Moirai> the future stays where it is
  82. 01[14:07] <Moirai> but the bridge leading to it from THIS past might be broken
  83. 01[14:08] <Moirai> you'd have to go home by a different route
  84. 01[14:08] <Moirai> add to that, there'd be "core" timelines, which would form the primary axis
  85. 01[14:09] <Moirai> any timeline which contains an entity from out of normal time would be more likely to contain more of them
  86. 01[14:09] <Moirai> so while 'home' you can't notice time travelers because they simply find it very hard to visit a time without time travelers
  87. 01[14:10] <Moirai> so why time travel if you can't change the outcome easily now?
  88. 01[14:10] <Moirai> things
  89. 01[14:10] <Moirai> and people
  90. 01[14:10] <Moirai> they can be moved from time to time
  91. 01[14:10] <Moirai> time is just another place after all
  92. [14:10] <~Bozwevial> So technically very few 'home' timelines have non-native time travelers at all
  93. 01[14:10] <Moirai> yeah
  94. [14:11] <~Bozwevial> But once they get there they make it easier to jump to that thread
  95. 01[14:11] <Moirai> basically
  96. [14:11] <~Bozwevial> Which provides an incentive not to time travel
  97. [14:11] <~Bozwevial> The mere act of doing it means that you're opening the door to more meddling later
  98. 01[14:11] <Moirai> yep
  99. 01[14:12] <Moirai> though it's also likely that most time travelers never realize this
  100. [14:12] <~Bozwevial> Or 'later'
  101. 01[14:12] <Moirai> because once they are a time traveler
  102. [14:12] <~Bozwevial> Does that only work from that point on or does it spread up and down the thread
  103. 01[14:12] <Moirai> they're probably treating a parallel but highly similar timeline as their home
  104. [14:12] <~Bozwevial> I guess the former is the more reasonable interpretation
  105. 01[14:13] <Moirai> little from A and little from B
  106. 01[14:13] <Moirai> spiderweb analogy
  107. 01[14:13] <Moirai> your line, from the last major junction, to the next one
  108. [14:13] <~Bozwevial> Yeah, was about to say it's not one unbroken thread
  109. 01[14:13] <Moirai> confluences like World Wars and the like would sort of reanchor everything
  110. 01[14:14] <Moirai> because they affect just too many things
  111. [14:14] <~Bozwevial> Also solves the potential issue of having multiple timelines be a guaranteed Bad End for your home timeline
  112. 01[14:14] <Moirai> heh
  113. 01[14:14] <Moirai> also, no such thing as paradox
  114. [14:14] <~Bozwevial> Though that's a don't-think-too-hard-about-this issue
  115. 01[14:14] <Moirai> if you rendered your own birth impossible
  116. 01[14:15] <Moirai> then you simply can't reach that timeline anymore
  117. 01[14:15] <Moirai> merely a similar one
  118. [14:15] <~Bozwevial> Or you'd have to fix the problem so that you wind up being born so you could take a different route home
  119. [14:15] <~Bozwevial> Although that might not be possibile
  120. 01[14:16] <Moirai> if you perform existential paradox you've cut yourself off
  121. 01[14:16] <Moirai> you'd need to get someone else to undo it
  122. 01[14:16] <Moirai> coz you can't access your own future-past anymore
  123. 01[14:17] <Moirai> final complication is sort of optional
  124. [14:18] <~Bozwevial> So using this model as a baseline for actual player-usable time travel, you'd probably restrict the jump points to relatively major hubs, right
  125. 01[14:18] <Moirai> basically
  126. 01[14:18] <Moirai> you can't jump to just anywhen
  127. 01[14:18] <Moirai> you need something that can be attributed to a given point in time with basically no doubt
  128. [14:19] <~Bozwevial> So the day you decided to become a paladin, the day the mayor was assassinated, etcetera
  129. 01[14:20] <Moirai> yeah, for personal turning points
  130. 01[14:20] <Moirai> one other finicky thing I considered as well
  131. [14:20] <~Bozwevial> Does that have the side effect of making travel into the future difficult without some sort of cross-timeline interference to give you knowledge of future events in the first place
  132. 01[14:20] <Moirai> when you time travel, you need to create an instance of you there
  133. 01[14:20] <Moirai> Divinations
  134. 01[14:20] <Moirai> they give you a goalpost to shoot for
  135. [14:20] <~Bozwevial> Or that, yeah
  136. 01[14:20] <Moirai> else you're flyhing blind
  137. 01[14:21] <Moirai> the thing is of course, going BACK from the future will be hard
  138. [14:21] <~Bozwevial> And you don't hand the DM a blank check when you time travel
  139. 01[14:21] <Moirai> because there are multiple possible pasts to that future
  140. [14:21] <~Bozwevial> You need to home in on the one you came from
  141. [14:21] <~Bozwevial> Or at least one similar enough
  142. 01[14:21] <Moirai> right
  143. [14:22] <~Bozwevial> Depending on how much you care about authenticity
  144. 01[14:22] <Moirai> good thing is it's pretty hard to commit existential paradox in the future at least
  145. 01[14:22] <Moirai> unless you went there
  146. 01[14:22] <Moirai> went elsewhere
  147. 01[14:22] <Moirai> and then went there again
  148. 01[14:22] <Moirai> meeting yourself is the tricky bit though
  149. [14:23] <~Bozwevial> But in either case you'd be able to get back
  150. [14:23] <~Bozwevial> Albeit through circuitous routes
  151. 01[14:23] <Moirai> yes
  152. 01[14:23] <Moirai> come to think of it, you wouldn't really be able to meet yourself
  153. 01[14:23] <Moirai> you'd be meeting that time line's instance of someone who is mostly you
  154. [14:23] <~Bozwevial> Yeah, just someone who's nearly identical
  155. 01[14:24] <Moirai> because I know for a fact I'm not the me from 10 years ago
  156. 01[14:24] <Moirai> we're different people and thus different characters
  157. 01[14:24] <Moirai> hundreds of people could have become the 'me' now
  158. 01[14:24] <Moirai> but the now is the only one that matters
  159. [14:25] <~Bozwevial> So ship of theseus, except for timelines
  160. 01[14:25] <Moirai> yes
  161. 01[14:25] <Moirai> as a time traveler, expect inconsistencies
  162. 01[14:25] <Moirai> you probably caused them
  163. [14:26] <~Bozwevial> Inconsistencies in personal knowledge of the timeline versus reality
  164. 01[14:26] <Moirai> yeah
  165. 01[14:26] <Moirai> you don't get updated
  166. 01[14:27] <Moirai> you signed up for paradoxes when you left Home Time
  167. 01[14:27] <Moirai> though I imagine for a lot of Home Times some people just disappear and never return
  168. [14:27] <~Bozwevial> I was originally thinking inconsistencies in reality versus the component timeline segments, but that's impossible because an alternate strand that leads to the same point is by definition something consistent
  169. 01[14:27] <Moirai> yes
  170. 01[14:28] <Moirai> pretty heavy psyduckings to manage
  171. [14:28] <~Bozwevial> So going back to Night Watch as an example, there's a record of a John Keel in Vimes' Home Time who Vimes remembers as being a real person
  172. 01[14:28] <Moirai> ah
  173. 01[14:29] <Moirai> that one was one of the addendum ideas
  174. 01[14:29] <Moirai> that you must find a 'role' to fit in
  175. 01[14:29] <Moirai> you can't just arrive as you are
  176. [14:29] <~Bozwevial> He gets thrown back into the past and winds up mentoring his younger self while posing as John Keel who gets killed on arrival
  177. [14:29] <~Bozwevial> Picks up the same facial scar and everything
  178. 01[14:29] <Moirai> right
  179. 01[14:29] <Moirai> but after thinking
  180. 01[14:30] <Moirai> it makes a nice literary idea
  181. [14:30] <~Bozwevial> Might not work out so neatly in play
  182. 01[14:30] <Moirai> but you're asking PLAYERS to give up most of their character, or else find somebody with an implausibly similar loadout to themselves
  183. 01[14:30] <Moirai> usually FOUR somebodys
  184. 01[14:30] <Moirai> this breaks game requirements
  185. [14:30] <~Bozwevial> Which is fine for ancestral-type stuff, less so for more mundane time travel
  186. 01[14:31] <Moirai> yes
  187. 01[14:31] <Moirai> in this setup you can actually have time travel as a major class feature and it'd work out
  188. [14:31] <~Bozwevial> So that's just a coincidental thing which leads nicely into jumping back to Home Time
  189. 01[14:32] <Moirai> yeah
  190. 01[14:32] <Moirai> mostly what you'd be doing with time is probably Grand Theft Temporal
  191. [14:32] <~Bozwevial> Time Bandits
  192. 01[14:32] <Moirai> and you can have both stable time loops AND timesplits with major acts
  193. 01[14:32] <Moirai> because if it's a small enough change it'd taper back to a joined future eventually
  194. [14:33] <~Bozwevial> So especially machiavellian players might set up the opportunity for major changes even though they won't act on them, because someone somewhen will
  195. [14:33] <~Bozwevial> and then they can plunder the resulting timeline
  196. [14:33] <~Bozwevial> without the negative consequences
  197. 01[14:36] <Moirai> well there would be consequences somewhen
  198. [14:36] <~Bozwevial> Just not in their chosen timeline
  199. 01[14:36] <Moirai> yeah
  200. 01[14:36] <Moirai> though your home timeline is important
  201. 01[14:36] <Moirai> you don't want your home time to be somewhen you can't reach anymore because you don't exist in it anymore
  202. [14:37] <~Bozwevial> If you're just hopping back and forth between roughly parallel strands, though, no fear of existential paradox
  203. 01[14:37] <Moirai> unless you sparked off another time traveler
  204. 01[14:37] <Moirai> who causes it for you
  205. [14:38] <~Bozwevial> Another iteration of almost-you, or someone totally unrelated
  206. 01[14:38] <Moirai> very likely to be almost-you
  207. 01[14:38] <Moirai> assuming you're plundering nearby lines
  208. 01[14:38] <Moirai> since you are already a time traveler
  209. 01[14:38] <Moirai> the almost-yous are thus also likely to be time travelers
  210. [14:39] <~Bozwevial> And also likely to want the things you are taking
  211. 01[14:39] <Moirai> yes
  212. 01[14:40] <Moirai> long term result, time paradox risks yourself and only yourself
  213. 01[14:41] <Moirai> you want to change things, visit a major confluence and try to tilt the odds
  214. [14:41] <~Bozwevial> So question about existential paradox
  215. 01[14:41] <Moirai> yeah?
  216. [14:42] <~Bozwevial> Say I'm a time traveler who's only hopped to nearby lines, but things have stayed linear for the most part
  217. 01[14:42] <Moirai> mmmhmm
  218. [14:43] <~Bozwevial> Almost-me harbors a grudge and decides to go kill off my past self
  219. 01[14:43] <Moirai> say for example, both of you are CE amoral jerks who'd do it for shits and giggles anyway
  220. [14:44] <~Bozwevial> That in theory keeps me from returning to Home Time until someone else fixes it
  221. 01[14:44] <Moirai> ok, lemme walk through the process first
  222. 01[14:44] <Moirai> for him to reach your time, he has to do one of three things
  223. 01[14:44] <Moirai> find the path you took to HIS time
  224. 01[14:44] <Moirai> go to a future confluence where your continued existence stopped mattering, then traveling back into your past and offing you
  225. 01[14:45] <Moirai> go to a common past confluence and cut off both your futures at once
  226. 01[14:45] <Moirai> in which case you cannot return to home time because yes, your bridges were burned
  227. [14:47] <~Bozwevial> So in option B I'm cut off from Home Time because my particular strand no longer connects with that confluence
  228. 01[14:47] <Moirai> yep
  229. [14:47] <~Bozwevial> Options C and A are somewhat more problematic
  230. [14:48] <~Bozwevial> So from the player's perspective he hops over and does what he does to piss off almost-him
  231. [14:48] <~Bozwevial> Jumps back to home time
  232. 01[14:49] <Moirai> and finds that it's not quite home anymore
  233. [14:49] <~Bozwevial> So the GM has to decide whether that happens right then in order for it to happen at all
  234. 01[14:49] <Moirai> yes, which poses a problem, unless you want to instantiate a meta-time
  235. 01[14:49] <Moirai> which is to say, time traveler-oclock
  236. [14:50] <~Bozwevial> If you get back and find you're actually Home, you're assured that there are no repercussions from that particular jaunt
  237. [14:50] <~Bozwevial> Forever
  238. 01[14:50] <Moirai> however, how do you know you are Home exactly though?
  239. 01[14:50] <Moirai> rather than a similar timeline
  240. [14:50] <~Bozwevial> Time traveler sense?
  241. 01[14:50] <Moirai> I'm thinking the big differences in parallel timelines
  242. [14:51] <~Bozwevial> Though that's probably not common if it exists at all
  243. 01[14:51] <Moirai> Home, where you go back to a time where a time traveling you left from
  244. 01[14:51] <Moirai> you fit right back in
  245. [14:51] <~Bozwevial> If you've got no surefire way of knowing you're Home it's a bit different
  246. 01[14:51] <Moirai> Near, where you go back to a time, and find theres another you
  247. 01[14:51] <Moirai> this may be a bit delayed
  248. 01[14:52] <Moirai> and Far where you never existed, you're completely out of place
  249. [14:52] <~Bozwevial> Wouldn't there be multiple Home timelines under that--
  250. [14:52] <~Bozwevial> wait, no
  251. [14:52] <~Bozwevial> Technically only one at a time from your perspective
  252. 01[14:52] <Moirai> yes
  253. [14:52] <~Bozwevial> Doesn't matter if it's the exact same one
  254. 01[14:52] <Moirai> past is mutable
  255. 01[14:52] <Moirai> if you can fit in, then you didn't cause that much damage
  256. [14:53] <~Bozwevial> Some inconsistencies but you can fit in
  257. 01[14:53] <Moirai> if your stealing the mona lisa caused your father to go to WW2 a few years too early and get shot in the nuts...
  258. 01[14:53] <Moirai> then you wind up Far
  259. [14:53] <~Bozwevial> So with that in place you could wind up living there for a few years before you find an almost-you and discover that you went too far astray
  260. [14:54] <~Bozwevial> Meaning GMs don't have to make snap decisions about future plot twists
  261. 01[14:54] <Moirai> yes
  262. 01[14:54] <Moirai> especially if that almost-you went time traveling
  263. 01[14:54] <Moirai> and 'just' got back
  264. [14:54] <~Bozwevial> Okay, that makes more sense
  265. [14:54] <~Bozwevial> That plus the clarification that Home sense is not necessarily a thing
  266. 01[14:55] <Moirai> yeah
  267. 01[14:56] <Moirai> main difficulty: establishing time destinations
  268. 01[14:56] <Moirai> you can depart of course, from anywhen
  269. 01[14:56] <Moirai> but what determines when you can arrive though
  270. 01[14:56] <Moirai> I personally figure, when you exit the timeline you create a destination
  271. 01[14:57] <Moirai> confluences have a lot of destinations
  272. 01[14:57] <Moirai> because some bugger visited them at some point
  273. [14:57] <~Bozwevial> And thus a lot of time travelers
  274. 01[14:57] <Moirai> yes
  275. 01[14:57] <Moirai> no use asking who's the first one
  276. 01[14:57] <Moirai> someone always have
  277. 01[14:59] <Moirai> so when dealing with groups play, the whole party can travel as a whole
  278. 01[15:00] <Moirai> or somebody buggers off into another time
  279. 01[15:00] <Moirai> and some time later somebody buggers back
  280. 01[15:00] <Moirai> probably the same somebody
  281. 01[15:00] <Moirai> probably
  282. 01[15:00] <Moirai> also throw in temporal scattering in that the destination shifts places
  283. [15:00] <~Bozwevial> the thing about being a time traveler is that pretty much all the almost-yous are also time travelers
  284. 01[15:00] <Moirai> and more importantly
  285. 01[15:01] <Moirai> if you actually lost track of Home
  286. 01[15:01] <Moirai> you could STILL meet the party
  287. 01[15:01] <Moirai> at a confluence
  288. 01[15:01] <Moirai> they'd be there somewhere
  289. 01[15:01] <Moirai> unless you existentialed them
  290. [15:02] <~Bozwevial> There are definitely times when it'd be beneficial to have a Home that wasn't the timeline where the party was mucking about
  291. 01[15:02] <Moirai> yeah
  292. 01[15:02] <Moirai> Far has some advantages in fact
  293. 01[15:02] <Moirai> because you KNOW for sure this is your guys
  294. [15:02] <~Bozwevial> Say you get captured and jump to a timeline where you escaped the ambush, then wait it out and meet up at the confluence to bust them out
  295. 01[15:02] <Moirai> rather than time clones
  296. 01[15:03] <Moirai> yeah
  297. 01[15:03] <Moirai> of course, the confluence is it's own clusterfuck
  298. 01[15:03] <Moirai> whole lot of people up and down the time line
  299. [15:03] <~Bozwevial> But the confluence spans a pretty broad length of time itself given the nature of the beast
  300. 01[15:03] <Moirai> yes
  301. [15:04] <~Bozwevial> Since it has to be pretty major generally
  302. 01[15:04] <Moirai> in fact the more time travelers use it, the bigger you'd get
  303. 01[15:04] <Moirai> since it'd widen up and down the line
  304. 01[15:04] <Moirai> now the really big confluences wouldn't be usable
  305. 01[15:04] <Moirai> the end and beginning
  306. 01[15:04] <Moirai> since you can't survive the hostile environment
  307. 01[15:04] <Moirai> :P
  308. [15:05] <~Bozwevial> Get a wizard to buff you up
  309. [15:05] <~Bozwevial> :P
  310. 01[15:05] <Moirai> though come to think of it, most of them are pretty hostile environments
  311. 01[15:05] <Moirai> most confluence events are big and violent
  312. 01[15:05] <Moirai> and lots of people get killed
  313. 01[15:06] <Moirai> thus merging the timelines
  314. 01[15:06] <Moirai> because whatever happened to them no longer matters
  315. [15:08] <~Bozwevial> And if need be you can go back into a confluence again
  316. [15:08] <~Bozwevial> You'd just be creating another offshoot
  317. 01[15:08] <Moirai> yeah
  318. 01[15:09] <Moirai> funny enough the best ones to find your home time is where you and everyone you know have been vaporised
  319. 01[15:09] <Moirai> you could find a possible past leading back home
  320. [15:11] <~Bozwevial> So a player having access to this is probably going to make time travel a major campaign staple whether they want to or not
  321. 01[15:11] <Moirai> on the meta level yes
  322. [15:11] <~Bozwevial> But that's probably to be expected as a side effect of it being your major class ability
  323. 01[15:12] <Moirai> if they bring the whole party along, or don't go on splits where the party wouldn't be
  324. 01[15:12] <Moirai> but splitting the party etc
  325. [15:13] <~Bozwevial> You could just wind up using it for relatively trivial reasons
  326. [15:13] <~Bozwevial> Grabbing cell keys, etc
  327. 01[15:13] <Moirai> true
  328. 01[15:13] <Moirai> yeah
  329. 01[15:13] <Moirai> most would do that I expect
  330. [15:13] <~Bozwevial> Bigger stuff carries much more risk
  331. 01[15:13] <Moirai> thinking in terms of 'distances'
  332. 01[15:13] <Moirai> like teleportation
  333. 01[15:14] <Moirai> if you're going further than a certain distance you need an anchor to arrive to
  334. [15:14] <~Bozwevial> Short trips would be relatively routine, longer jaunts take prepwork and information digging
  335. [15:14] <~Bozwevial> At least if you want to be safe about it
  336. 01[15:15] <Moirai> yeah
  337. [15:15] <~Bozwevial> Reckless jumping is a good way to get yourself killed or paradoxed
  338. 01[15:15] <Moirai> anything within the same hour shouldn't be too bad
  339. 01[15:15] <Moirai> oh yes
  340. 01[15:15] <Moirai> especially when you consider
  341. 01[15:15] <Moirai> destinations are where another traveler jumped out
  342. 01[15:15] <Moirai> what did they jump out for?
  343. [15:15] <~Bozwevial> Doesn't even need to be the cross-timeline interference if you jump into a bandit ambush
  344. [15:16] <~Bozwevial> Yeah, just having the ability is inviting trouble
  345. [15:16] <~Bozwevial> Though I wonder if it weakens the timeline immunity if you never actually use it
  346. [15:16] <~Bozwevial> Cases of that would be pretty rare seeing as you'd most likely have practiced time hopping, but if it's inherent
  347. 01[15:17] <Moirai> if its inherent you'd have taken unconscious hops
  348. 01[15:17] <Moirai> short ones
  349. 01[15:17] <Moirai> like waking up late
  350. 01[15:17] <Moirai> and then going to the toilet an hour ago
  351. [15:17] <~Bozwevial> Temporal adolescence
  352. [15:18] <~Bozwevial> So anyone who has the ability is a time traveler by definition
  353. 01[15:18] <Moirai> yeah
  354. [15:18] <~Bozwevial> No creative backstory writing to prevent the DM from springing that on you until you're good and ready
  355. 01[15:18] <Moirai> has had or could have had
  356. [15:19] <~Bozwevial> Comes with the territory
  357. [15:20] <~Bozwevial> Incredibly useful applications, but the more spectacular the effect you want the more dangerous and difficult it is to achieve
  358. 01[15:20] <Moirai> yeah
  359. 01[15:20] <Moirai> though use in combat is probably fine
  360. 01[15:20] <Moirai> other than poking the timeline full of holes for time travelers to visit
  361. 01[15:23] <Moirai> the main problem is combat traveling though
  362. 01[15:24] <Moirai> extremely heavy overhead
  363. [15:25] <~Bozwevial> The spiderweb model takes care of longer time jumps, but if you can travel on a combat basis it slows RL games
  364. 01[15:25] <Moirai> yes
  365. [15:25] <~Bozwevial> Less extra work in PbPs since it's all there
  366. 01[15:25] <Moirai> even in PbPs
  367. [15:25] <~Bozwevial> Still necessitates retconning
  368. 01[15:25] <Moirai> most people don't track their state post by post
  369. 01[15:25] <Moirai> what I'm thinking is a savestate model
  370. [15:26] <~Bozwevial> So you have to go back and tally things up
  371. 01[15:26] <Moirai> you have to take an action to save a state
  372. [15:27] <~Bozwevial> Then if things go sour you can reload without worrying about the interim period
  373. 01[15:27] <Moirai> yes
  374. [15:27] <~Bozwevial> Also presumably there's an expiration date for the savestate
  375. 01[15:28] <Moirai> yeah
  376. 03[15:28] * Dm_Chris ([email protected]) has joined #mmxgeneral
  377. 01[15:28] <Moirai> won't need to be long anyway
  378. [15:28] <~Bozwevial> Does reloading wipe the savestate
  379. 01[15:28] <Moirai> it's not like you're going to savestate before killing hitler
  380. [15:28] <Dm_Chris> Anybody good at optimising, I need some help.
  381. 01[15:28] <Moirai> going into the future to see the results
  382. 01[15:28] <Moirai> then load file
  383. 01[15:28] <Moirai> reloading SHOULD ruin the state
  384. [15:29] <~Bozwevial> to prevent savescumming
  385. 01[15:29] <Moirai> yes
  386. [15:29] <Dm_Chris> Nobody/
  387. [15:29] <Dm_Chris> This is a young young young young advanced advanced advanced advanced Changeling Master Summoner: http://pastebin.com/WzyZYLyq
  388. 01[15:29] <Moirai> we're just discussing time travel here~
  389. [15:29] <Dm_Chris> Is assume with parallel universes it just creates a new inaccessible save file.
  390. [15:30] <~Bozwevial> Ah, Pathfinder
  391. 01[15:30] <Moirai> the conversation was quite long
  392. [15:30] <Dm_Chris> Anyway, that character is too weak. It needs to be more broken. Other people are doing 75 damage a round with like 60 AC
  393. 01[15:30] <Moirai> like
  394. 01[15:30] <Moirai> 2 hours long
  395. [15:30] <Dm_Chris> :P
  396. 01[15:30] <Moirai> no
  397. 01[15:30] <Moirai> three
  398. 01[15:30] <Moirai> I probably should log it
  399. [15:31] <~Bozwevial> Mine auto-logs, but I should save a separate copy anyway
  400. [15:31] <Dm_Chris> I've only got about 20 minutes left, so does anybody have any suggestions to break it as much as possible? Maybe different templates (I have CR+4 to spend with young young young young)
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