Concerning trust.

(10:18:43 PM) ***amaSwe|Online has created the side-memo!
(10:18:44 PM) ***ophcun|online has connected to the memo
(10:18:56 PM) ***venPip|invis has connected to the memo
(10:19:06 PM) Muss [[email protected]] entered the room.
(10:19:06 PM) You are now known as venPip|online
(10:19:56 PM) amaSwe|Online: I'm going to just be the one hosting the memo.  I'm going to remain quiet unless directly asked to speak.
(10:20:10 PM) amaSwe|Online: From here on out, consider me a coatrack.
(10:21:01 PM) ***venPip|online nods.
(10:21:04 PM) venPip|online: Thank you, Ockzel.
(10:21:23 PM) s_Cyma [[email protected]] entered the room.
(10:21:37 PM) ophcun|online: [>Cho: curl up closer to Ockzel.]
(10:22:41 PM) amaSwe|Online: [You drape one arm around her and reach for a different piece of sushi.]
(10:23:39 PM) ophcun|online: [>Cho: absently intercept his hand and move it over the salmon.]
(10:24:04 PM) amaSwe|Online: [You let her correct you and thoughtfully masticate.]
(10:24:57 PM) ophcun|online: ["...he's not saying anything.]
(10:25:06 PM) ophcun|online: (( Wow, look at me go. +" ))
(10:25:33 PM) amaSwe|Online: ["To be fair, you aren't either.  He might not know how to start."]
(10:25:49 PM) amaSwe|Online: ["It's one thing to want something.  It's something entirely to get it out of the blue."]
(10:25:59 PM) amaSwe|Online: ((*something else entirely))
(10:26:19 PM) venPip|online: [...she's not saying anything. You should probably start.]
(10:26:27 PM) venPip|online: Hey.
(10:27:00 PM) ophcun|online: Hi.
(10:28:23 PM) venPip|online: Thanks for being here. I appreciate it, I do.
(10:28:31 PM) venPip|online: [You sound like a robot.]
(10:29:31 PM) ophcun|online: Uh...
(10:29:35 PM) ophcun|online: ...you're welcome?
(10:30:03 PM) ophcun|online: [>Cho: shift gears.]
(10:30:58 PM) ophcun|online: What is it you wanted, Ross? This is hells of awkward for both of us.
(10:31:31 PM) amaSwe|Online: [You frown sharply.  /That/ was a change in body language if you've ever seen one.]
(10:31:33 PM) venPip|online: [>Blink.]
(10:32:53 PM) venPip|online: Well. To talk? To hear from /you/ that you're okay, or not okay, or fine, rather th'n second-hand. To...try and find out if things are ever going to be at a point where we're not forcing each-other off the memo.
(10:34:22 PM) venPip|online: I'm not quite sure where 'no resolutions' leaves us, tonight.
(10:36:41 PM) ophcun|online: Well. You sort of abandoned me. For months, after I went under, and tried my best to leave no tracks about being, you know. An alien wannabe.
(10:40:26 PM) venPip|online: I did. I...there's no excuse.
(10:40:26 PM) venPip|online: There were reasons, some of 'em I only recognized in retrospect, but there weren't any excuses. I'm sorry. I wish that meant more.
(10:42:11 PM) ophcun|online: It means a lot.
(10:42:15 PM) ophcun|online: As much as it should.
(10:43:11 PM) venPip|online: Thanks.
(10:43:38 PM) venPip|online: [>Ross: Your lip is quivering. Retrieve a handkerchief. You're tearing up.]
(10:43:53 PM) venPip|online: I'm pretty disgusted with myself. I'm not sure I /should/ keep trying--for, for anything. Friendship. But I know I'd want to.
(10:44:36 PM) ophcun|online: Like hell we're not at least going to hold onto our friendship.
(10:44:49 PM) ophcun|online: It's... everything else that needs long, careful consideration.
(10:45:58 PM) venPip|online: That's fair. That's right.
(10:47:31 PM) ophcun|online: It's, well.
(10:47:36 PM) ophcun|online: Simply put?
(10:47:41 PM) ophcun|online: It's a trust thing.
(10:47:49 PM) venPip|online: Yeah.
(10:50:24 PM) ophcun|online: I need to trust you're not going to do this again, for one. Which... isn't exactly the easiest thing. We /both/ know your history of dropping Vitt at the beginning of sessions, and you /never/ wound up staying connected with your one session stands, regardless of how enthusiastic about them you may have been initially.
(10:51:18 PM) ophcun|online: Which... is fair enough, I guess. Shine's off the diamond, you had a good run, may just be easier to avoid the heartbreak of reconnecting and being left the victim of your next maturity-reset.
(10:51:39 PM) ophcun|online: And... more than just that? There's been a lot of introspection, too.
(10:52:20 PM) venPip|online: ...I don't think it..I don't think we would have timed it like that, for just a 'fling.'
(10:52:29 PM) venPip|online: but go on
(10:52:55 PM) ophcun|online: Not much sense in putting faith in someone if you're just going to forgive them again, and again, and again when they continually fuck you over, but it's an /overwhelmingly/ common problem in relationships of /all/ kinds.
(10:53:36 PM) venPip|online: I...
(10:53:47 PM) venPip|online: [Swallow]
(10:54:00 PM) venPip|online: I wouldn't want you to be with me if I did that.
(10:54:22 PM) ophcun|online: I've got a history of it. We've got a history of it. Of that sort of pattern. And I... there needs to be certainty that it won't turn /into/ that.
(10:55:15 PM) venPip|online: How?
(10:56:12 PM) ophcun|online: I'm still trying to figure that one out.
(10:56:46 PM) venPip|online: Makes both of us.
(10:59:11 PM) venPip|online: I don't want to feel you're a stranger to me, Chowen. I want to /talk/ again.
(10:59:49 PM) ophcun|online: ...'ve been scared to talk.
(11:00:10 PM) venPip|online: Scared I'd press you?
(11:00:18 PM) ophcun|online: No.
(11:00:29 PM) ophcun|online: More because it's... too easy to forgive, or kneejerk and wind up pushing someone away for good.
(11:01:29 PM) venPip|online: Mmm.
(11:02:53 PM) ophcun|online: Frankly I've been more worried about Ockzel pressing, lately.
(11:03:23 PM) venPip|online: Pressing you, about us? About...something between the two of you?
(11:05:32 PM) ophcun|online: ["D'you mind if I...?" Your voice is unemotional.]
(11:06:12 PM) amaSwe|Online: ["... sure, go for it."]
(11:10:18 PM) ophcun|online: He flat-out said that he wasn't comfortable going anywhere with our relationship so long as I was still avoiding addressing the situation with you.
(11:11:05 PM) venPip|online: Mm. Is...that why you're here?
(11:11:06 PM) ophcun|online: To paraphrase, "I refuse to be the wedge that drives you apart".
(11:11:13 PM) ***venPip|online nods.
(11:11:17 PM) ophcun|online: No.
(11:13:10 PM) ophcun|online: That's dismissive both to you and him as people. I value and care about the two of you, deeply. I wouldn't.
(11:13:47 PM) ophcun|online: I wouldn't let myself, even if I wanted to.
(11:14:38 PM) venPip|online: What do you want?
(11:14:47 PM) amaSwe|Online: [Bite your tongue.  Return your attention to a different conversation on your visor.]
(11:14:49 PM) Muss left the room (quit: Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client).
(11:17:35 PM) ophcun|online left the room (quit: Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client).
(11:19:22 PM) Ishtadaal [[email protected]] entered the room.
(11:19:41 PM) Ishtadaal is now known as ophcun|online
(11:20:31 PM) ophcun|online: [You raise an eyebrow, turn to face Ockzel a bit. "Z'z it something you want to say in public, or just say?"]
(11:21:40 PM) amaSwe|Online: ["It's something that would distract you right now.  It can wait."]
(11:22:04 PM) ophcun|online: ["Mmm. Save in a logger, for later, then?"]
(11:22:18 PM) ophcun|online: I... hmm.
(11:22:25 PM) ophcun|online: Bit of a loaded question, there.
(11:22:32 PM) amaSwe|Online: ["Mmmhm.  Right after I'm done reassuring Gradou that, no, I don't intend to punch in Nelsaa's face."]
(11:22:43 PM) venPip|online: I c'n clarify.
(11:22:52 PM) venPip|online: don't want it loaded none
(11:23:01 PM) ophcun|online: "You" is an obvious answer, but that's both incredibly obvious and completely unhelpful.
(11:23:15 PM) ophcun|online: "Nothing" disregards that, and implies that you're being selfish when I want space.
(11:23:52 PM) ophcun|online: "Space" is bad. Underlined, italicized, and bolded. It's one of /those/ words.
(11:24:05 PM) ophcun|online: But all three are applicable.
(11:24:42 PM) amaSwe|Online is now known as sacAbs|Online
(11:24:47 PM) ophcun|online: I want to just... have everything be forgiven, have things go back to normal, let you reassure me that everything is going to be all right, that this won't happen again.
(11:25:03 PM) venPip|online: God, I want that too.
(11:26:16 PM) ophcun|online: But I respect us too much to risk letting us wind up in a cycle of guilt and victimization like that. I don't want to go back to that and see it be poisoned over session upon session of heartbreak and guilt-trip and forced, desperate, mechanical forgiveness.
(11:26:38 PM) ophcun|online: As for this conversation, Ockzel mentioned you wanting to talk to me when I asked who he was talking to.
(11:26:53 PM) venPip|online: Mm.
(11:26:56 PM) ophcun|online: And I came this far away from refusing, on the grounds that I wasn't ready to sort things out.
(11:27:22 PM) ophcun|online: But... I came in without any sort of idea of what /you/ wanted, or 'Zel, let alone what /I/ might hope to gain from this exchange.
(11:27:53 PM) ophcun|online: So that's the 'Nothing'.
(11:27:58 PM) ophcun|online: As for space? Well.
(11:28:03 PM) ophcun|online: Still haven't figured things out.
(11:28:09 PM) ophcun|online: Got a lot of soul-searching to do.
(11:28:46 PM) ophcun|online: I'm still not completely certain how good I am at the whole "sexual relationships" thing, and as far as I've seen, I'm the common element in things going wrong.
(11:28:59 PM) ophcun|online: Gods know I didn't do right by Zel.
(11:30:30 PM) venPip|online: Sex? or romance?
(11:31:32 PM) venPip|online: not a question you have to answer
(11:32:24 PM) ophcun|online: Probably both.
(11:35:22 PM) venPip|online: [A wondering flickers through your mind, before you set it away.]
(11:35:24 PM) venPip|online: Mm.
(11:35:40 PM) venPip|online: I want to...share food. Bitch about our sessions. Help people. Not feel like a /creep/ when I notice you've logged on recently.
(11:36:35 PM) ophcun|online: Would be nice, yes.
(11:36:49 PM) ophcun|online: I'll consider it.
(11:37:41 PM) venPip|online: ...I want a lot of other things, too. I don't feel I've the right to ask for, or expect them.
(11:37:56 PM) venPip|online: forgiveness is one
(11:38:11 PM) venPip|online: just figure I...shouldn't pretend otherwise, on that account.
(11:38:20 PM) ophcun|online: We'll figure out those when we come to those. Big things, first.
(11:39:40 PM) venPip|online: Trust is a pretty big thing.
(11:40:37 PM) ophcun|online: It is.
(11:40:45 PM) ophcun|online: I'd love to give it to you, again.
(11:40:58 PM) ophcun|online: But I need to make sure I've got the glue and duct tape to spare, first.
(11:41:37 PM) venPip|online: Mmm. A shoddy patch job's to be avoided.
(11:42:12 PM) ophcun|online: I wouldn't want it to shatter for good.
(11:42:21 PM) ophcun|online: Care about you too much, Ross.
(11:43:08 PM) venPip|online: That's...that feels good to hear. It does. Really good.
(11:46:01 PM) ophcun|online: No matter what, even if I can only promise the platonic will stay constant, I love you, Ross.
(11:46:27 PM) ophcun|online: Keep that in mind, all right?
(11:50:58 PM) venPip|online: That's something I can do. I love you too, Cho.
(11:54:15 PM) ophcun|online: Is... that about it, then? Feels like it's about it.
(11:57:07 PM) venPip|online: Seems like it could be. Are we setting an appointment or a time to talk again, or just...resolving to say 'hi' on the memo, when we see each-other?
(11:57:40 PM) ophcun|online: Appointments are clinical.
(11:57:44 PM) ophcun|online: And they're deadlines.
(11:57:48 PM) ophcun|online: Best not to.
(11:59:14 PM) venPip|online: Somethin' could happen no fault of our own and it'd get missed and then something's on the floor cracked and disappointed again
(9/5/2013 12:01:20 AM) ophcun|online: Or I could make a mountain out of a molehill and turn something enjoyable into an obligation.
(12:01:28 AM) venPip|online: Mm. Wouldn't want that.
(12:02:30 AM) venPip|online: 'n that...makes it ease fears that this won't be the only time we talk, for another perigee.
(12:03:33 AM) ophcun|online: Mmhmm.
(12:03:49 AM) ophcun|online: Take care, then.
(12:03:51 AM) ophcun|online: Talk to you later.
(12:04:01 AM) ***ophcun|online has unblocked ventricularPipefitter
(12:04:10 AM) ***ophcun|online has disconnected from the servers
(12:04:14 AM) ophcun|online is now known as Cho
(12:04:42 AM) sacAbs|Online: Well, better than a sharp stick in the gills.  I figure you're going to want to head out?
(12:04:59 AM) Cho: ["There." You fold your hands, look at the sushi, and captcha it. It's been sitting out for too long to be as appetizing as it was before. Besides, you sampled while you were making it.]
(12:05:02 AM) sacAbs|Online: Think for a bit?  Or did you want to process on here?
(12:05:05 AM) venPip|online: Dinner time.
(12:05:11 AM) sacAbs|Online: Even better.
(12:05:13 AM) sacAbs|Online: Go eat something.
(12:05:16 AM) sacAbs|Online: You'll feel better.
(12:05:50 AM) sacAbs|Online: ["There."  You sigh and slouch some more.]
(12:05:52 AM) venPip|online: uh-huh. Got some comfort food on the pot.
(12:06:04 AM) venPip|online: Take care, Ockzel. Thank you.
(12:06:05 AM) sacAbs|Online: ["The sushi was good."]
(12:06:16 AM) sacAbs|Online: Don't get into too much trouble, Ross.
(12:06:22 AM) sacAbs|Online: And it's the least I could do.
(12:06:50 AM) venPip|online: Mm.
(12:07:05 AM) venPip|online: G'day, Ock.
(12:07:11 AM) sacAbs|Online: G'night, Ross.
(12:07:15 AM) sacAbs|Online: c3<
(12:07:44 AM) venPip|online: c3<
(12:07:57 AM) ***venPip|online has disconnected from the servers
(12:07:59 AM) You are now known as Zuki
(12:08:23 AM) Cho: ["Good to hear. Now... you had something to say to me?"]
(12:08:42 AM) sacAbs|Online: [You default into a frown.  "Y'sure you want to do this right now?"]
(12:08:53 AM) You are now known as zu|snooze
(12:09:38 AM) Cho: [You raise an eyebrow, stop, and then nod.]
(12:10:14 AM) sacAbs|Online: [You let out a slow breath.  "Warning you, it struck a nerve, so I'm going to be blunt and probably more pointed and Sandy than I should."]
(12:10:28 AM) sacAbs|Online: ["I'll try not to be, but no promises."]
(12:11:18 AM) sacAbs|Online: [You bite the inside of your cheek before starting with, "You talked about the wedge thing, and... do you see any of the doublethink or double standards you were using there?"]
(12:11:58 AM) sacAbs|Online: ["Apparently, I don't have the moral fiber to keep from using you as a wedge, as you outright said - or maybe it was implied, I don't remember crisply right now - I would in /our/ conversation."]
(12:12:16 AM) sacAbs|Online: ["By doing that, you dismissed Li, and Ross, and yourself as people.  Why is it okay for you to say those things, but not me?"]
(12:12:44 AM) sacAbs|Online: ["/Especially/ when it's in response, echoing something you've decided is appropriate for me?  Why am I so much weaker of spirit or emotion or /whatever/ that it's right for you to say that to me, but you're a paragon who it doesn't apply to?"]
(12:13:02 AM) sacAbs|Online: [You stop, falling quiet, as you pick at the back of your neck.]
(12:13:07 AM) Cho: [You blink. Frown, put a finger up, blink again, shake your head.]
(12:13:24 AM) Cho: ["You have it completely bass-ackwards, Zel."]
(12:13:38 AM) Cho: ["I'm very, /very/ human."]
(12:14:01 AM) Cho: ["And that's something, that, well. Could have wound up eventually helping me justify just cutting Ross off wholesale."]
(12:14:29 AM) Cho: ["I don't think you'd let me, and I... don't know if it would /happen/, but it could. Feasible possibility and everything."]
(12:15:37 AM) Cho: ["I mentioned you saying it because I'd needed the reminder, and it stuck in my mind. Having my own words put right back in my face is a good exercise for keeping /from/ forming double-standards."]
(12:16:23 AM) Cho: ["I mentioned it because it was a good, sensible thing to say, and something Ross would like to have heard. It's also a subtle way of reminding him that he isn't being shoved to the wayside."]
(12:16:53 AM) Cho: [You stop. Nibble your lip, curl your legs to your chest, wrap your arms around them.]
(12:17:46 AM) sacAbs|Online: ["And I quote:  'That's dismissive both to you and him as people. I value and care about the two of you, deeply. I wouldn't.'  That's not exactly a 'hey I'm watching for double standards here,' that's a 'you're wrong and I'm right and I don't appreciate the attempt.'"  You bite back anything further when she moves.]
(12:21:31 AM) Cho: ["...I wouldn't just be talking to him to push our relationship forwards."]
(12:24:32 AM) sacAbs|Online: ["That is... not the point I'm trying to get across, though it's good to know that."  You worry at a scab.  "I guess now I'm trying to say that there was /no/ sign of appreciation, or me having a point, even if you did take it to heart."]
(12:25:03 AM) sacAbs|Online: ["That you resented my pointing that out."  You stop picking when you feel your claw catch.]
(12:25:31 AM) Cho: [You're handing a fidget over before you even think of it.]
(12:26:09 AM) Cho: ["...it's... I... nn. The mindframe I was in isn't... precisely... goddamnit this sounds like an /excuse/."]
(12:26:22 AM) Cho: [>Cho: breathe in.]
(12:26:25 AM) Cho: [>Cho: breathe out.]
(12:26:29 AM) Cho: ["I'm sorry."]
(12:26:38 AM) Cho: ["For making you feel that way."]
(12:27:58 AM) Cho: ["I... can see, later, if he picked up on what I'd intended to communicate, later-on, if you'd like, but until then all I can say is I'm pretty sure he'd have gotten that through the... tone of communication."]
(12:28:25 AM) Cho: ["And, more importantly, I'm sorry I /didn't/ make it amply clear /then/."]
(12:28:35 AM) sacAbs|Online: [You take the fidget and turn it over several times.]
(12:28:50 AM) sacAbs|Online: [You are tempted to chomp down on it, but figure that would be in poor form.]
(12:29:36 AM) sacAbs|Online: ["I doubt /he/s/ gonna get that out of it, since he wasn't exactly privy to that conversation and doesn't know the background."]
(12:30:10 AM) sacAbs|Online: ["You... tend to obscure how you actually feel, when you feel things, and thrust people at arm's length, if not completely away."]
(12:30:25 AM) Cho: ["He is, however, privy to years of experience with me and the significance of me sharing details about uncomfortable interpersonal interactions."]
(12:30:35 AM) sacAbs|Online: ["... apology accepted, I suppose is what I'm trying to say there."]
(12:30:45 AM) Cho: ["I... all right."]
(12:31:34 AM) Cho: ["I'm... trying to work on the arm's-length bit. It's just... hard, for me, without time to build up trust."]
(12:33:01 AM) sacAbs|Online: ["I can respect that.  But it also leaves /me/ standing here with /no/ /fucking/ /clue/ where I actually stand.  Zig-zagging between closeness and then suddenly exiled is not something most people are equipped to deal with."]
(12:34:39 AM) Cho: ["Mm. Neither is slowly losing someone by inches. I can... yeah."]
(12:36:46 AM) Cho: ["It's... not that I... nnn. Want you away, it's that I don't want to be spending time with you being /negative/, especially when you're trying to decompress and I realize that probably makes things worse but really sometimes I get hormonal and then /bam/, something I'm basically over is the only thing I can think about and it's /really/ upsetting again or
(12:38:18 AM) Cho: you mention something that reminds me of it and I have to go process and I /really/ don't want to be snappish at you especially when things have been so /fragile/ so finding someplace to think for a few hours is probably for the best it's not that I don't want you around it's that I don't want to be forcing my presence on you."]
(12:39:46 AM) sacAbs|Online: ["Cho, do you realize how /completely/ /unrealistic/ expecting every moment we have together to be positive?"  You boggle slightly at her.  "Your brain is winding you up like /crazy/.  At the very least, friends are supposed to help each other process, even if it's about them. And how the /fuck/ am I supposed to help when I don't know what the problems are?"]
(12:41:08 AM) Cho: [You squeeze your eyes shut tight. Curl your face into the loop of your arms and knees.]
(12:42:07 AM) sacAbs|Online: [You /do/ bite the fidget this time.  "Well, didn't think that through very well.  Sorry for saying it so rough."]
(12:43:42 AM) Cho: ["The p-problem is I am an emotional fuckup and have difficulty processing upsetting things."]
(12:44:16 AM) sacAbs|Online: ["You have difficulty processing on your own.  You ever tried to do it /with/ someone?  Helps, even if you're just rubber-quackbeasting."]
(12:46:15 AM) Cho: [A head poking up, and a blink. A headtilt, and a nosewrinkle. "You /do/ realize my world didn't reely /have/ rubber quackbeasts, right?"]
(12:46:48 AM) sacAbs|Online: [You roll your eyes.  "Am I supposed to expect you don't know what they are by now?"]
(12:47:52 AM) Rave is now known as Doge
(12:49:05 AM) Cho: ["I've had time to think and I'm... well. I've processed."]
(12:50:12 AM) sacAbs|Online: ["Which is why we keep going over the same terrain time and again?"]
(12:51:05 AM) sacAbs|Online: [You sigh.]
(12:51:50 AM) Cho: ["Which is why I didn't make an excuse and acshoally talked to him."]
(12:52:19 AM) sacAbs|Online: ["I meant with /us/."]
(12:53:37 AM) Cho: ["I'm sorry. It's not been fair to you."]
(12:55:41 AM) sacAbs|Online: ["If there's something helpful I can actually /do/, throw me a bone."  You sigh and lean forward, handing her back her fidget.  "Y'know what, I'm going to go to bed before I get any more tired or upset, because I don't want to snap more'n I already have.  You're welcome to come in, if you're comfortable, or... whatever else you'd prefer."]
(12:56:18 AM) Cho: [You nod; move to get up.]
(12:56:25 AM) Cho: [Stop abruptly.]
(12:56:37 AM) Cho: ["...my legs are numb."]
(12:57:11 AM) sacAbs|Online: ["... well, with squeezing your legs like that, I can imagine why."  You scoop her up casually and start walking to the respiteblock.]
(12:59:17 AM) Cho: [You fiddle with the fidget.]
(12:59:47 AM) Cho: ["'m sorry. I just... really needed to process that bit alone. I'll be shore to talk to you about waterever comes up aboat it in the future."]
(1:00:48 AM) Doge is now known as sleepyRave
(1:03:16 AM) sacAbs|Online: ["I know you are.  We'll... work on it.  For now, sleep, because I have no more ability to keep on going."  You put her down in the 'coon before settling in yourself.]
(1:05:37 AM) esoRem|online left the room (quit: Connection reset by peer).
(1:06:08 AM) The_Black_Watch [[email protected]] entered the room.
(1:06:15 AM) The_Black_Watch is now known as esoRem|online
(1:06:23 AM) Cho: [>Cho: cling to Ockzel like you're a treebeast, and he's the tree.]
(1:07:02 AM) sacAbs|Online: [Well, you can work with this.  You shove a pillow under your head, wrap an arm around her, and go to sleep.]
(1:07:26 AM) Cho: [>Cho: drift off.]