dumb IRC person _IS_ the logical fallacy

Jun 11 22:35:35 <jrobeson>	lol.. zfs drama
Jun 11 22:35:44 <logiz>	sounds like another reason I don't want to use zfs
Jun 11 22:36:34 <jrobeson>	nah. it's just people getting mad about a patch that was accepted to change slaves to dependents
Jun 11 22:36:54 <jrobeson>	made the usual suspects real mad again
Jun 11 22:37:25 <slycurgus>	is 'dependents' any better, now someone will make it about welfare
Jun 11 22:37:28 <slycurgus>	:V
Jun 11 22:37:35 <jrobeson>	eh.. dependents is also used in tax forms
Jun 11 22:37:45 <jrobeson>	it's used way more in non welfare context
Jun 11 22:38:07 <jrobeson>	slycurgus, think harder buddy
Jun 11 22:38:23 <slycurgus>	like h*ck, it's friday
Jun 11 22:38:33 <jrobeson>	or maybe just don't say anything at all
Jun 11 22:38:39 <slycurgus>	that's probably for the best
Jun 11 22:38:51 <jrobeson>	sorry. i didn't mean in general..
Jun 11 22:38:58 <jrobeson>	you seem to be reflexively contrarian
Jun 11 22:39:04 <slycurgus>	no i don't
Jun 11 22:39:06 <slycurgus>	wait shit
Jun 11 22:39:09 <slycurgus>	:D
Jun 11 22:39:14 <logiz>	:O
Jun 11 22:39:17 <jrobeson>	it's something you should think bout
Jun 11 22:39:23 <jrobeson>	do some introspection and whatnot
Jun 11 22:39:23 <slycurgus>	i guess
Jun 11 22:39:26 <logiz>	man there's too many things to think about
Jun 11 22:39:38 <slycurgus>	you know how much i hate introspection man it's like my holy water
Jun 11 22:39:53 <jrobeson>	big brain logiz
Jun 11 22:39:58 <slycurgus>	people are like "stop it, get some help" and i'm like noooooo
Jun 11 22:40:28 <logiz>	like adidas just released some vegan shoes, but they also sell nonvegan shoes so it's not a vegan company, but does supporting those shoes mean supporting veganism as a more accepted thing by normal normies and help move big corps in that direction, or does it make it acceptable for companies to pander to a demographic that supports ethical decisions while themselves not being super ethical
Jun 11 22:40:40 <jrobeson>	both
Jun 11 22:40:44 *	logiz dies
Jun 11 22:41:02 <slycurgus>	jrobeson: in general i guess i expect people to not take anything i say seriously (because why would anyone do that) so i just say things that strike me as amusing
Jun 11 22:41:15 <jrobeson>	slycurgus, at least don't do it about this..
Jun 11 22:41:20 <logiz>	slycurgus: you literally just explained all the reckys
Jun 11 22:41:25 <slycurgus>	heh
Jun 11 22:41:28 <jrobeson>	because you know you're just gonna make me mad
Jun 11 22:41:33 <slycurgus>	:< sorry
Jun 11 22:41:34 <jrobeson>	and why would you wanna do that?
Jun 11 22:41:51 <slycurgus>	i never wanna do that
Jun 11 22:41:56 <genr8_>	if people go around looking for words to purposely misconstrue the meaning of, and take the wrong way, its because their mind can't help drawing a connection to something problematic. the problem might be their thought process. not the word. cause we can find an endless number of words that can be thought of as "bad" if you think of it like that.
Jun 11 22:41:56 <slycurgus>	mad jrobeson is a bad feeling
Jun 11 22:42:16 <jrobeson>	genr8_, "go around looking"  i don't think that's what generally happens
Jun 11 22:42:26 <jrobeson>	this is a very old debate
Jun 11 22:42:37 <logiz>	we talked about it in this channel during the pull request :)
Jun 11 22:42:44 <jrobeson>	for nearly as long as i've used computers
Jun 11 22:42:49 <slycurgus>	i guess it's important to point out that i didn't mean they shouldn't change it
Jun 11 22:42:58 <slycurgus>	just that there will always be some idiot who wants to be mad about words
Jun 11 22:43:22 <jrobeson>	slycurgus, i didn't think you were, but still. the problem isn't what you say in isolation
Jun 11 22:43:31 <jrobeson>	it's what you say in context to all the people who are legit mad
Jun 11 22:43:32 <slycurgus>	they could change master/slave to BLA/BLOO and someone woudl be like "i don't like the double letter in BLOO" or whatever
Jun 11 22:43:36 <jrobeson>	they don't need any more defenders
Jun 11 22:43:41 <slycurgus>	indeed
Jun 11 22:43:50 <logiz>	slycurgus: that's different though
Jun 11 22:43:57 <slycurgus>	and i don't have the time or inclination to keep up with what mad people are saying
Jun 11 22:44:11 <slycurgus>	so i guess i'm cursed to always be out of the loop and risk saying something that's somehow inflammatory
Jun 11 22:44:12 <jrobeson>	but since it's always the same, it's not a hard pattern to match
Jun 11 22:44:17 <jrobeson>	huh?
Jun 11 22:44:24 <jrobeson>	can't you tell that it fits the same exact pattern every time?
Jun 11 22:44:24 <logiz>	slycurgus: that's something boomers say
Jun 11 22:44:33 <logiz>	slycurgus: be a wallaby not a kanagroo
Jun 11 22:44:49 <jrobeson>	if you do say something inflammatory on accident, you can just apologize
Jun 11 22:44:50 <genr8_>	you cant say boomers, its offensive to boomers.
Jun 11 22:44:53 <logiz>	good
Jun 11 22:45:13 <slycurgus>	jrobeson: i'd rather not say it at all though!
Jun 11 22:45:23 <slycurgus>	causing offence is sad times
Jun 11 22:45:47 <jrobeson>	eh.. well in this case it's not hard to avoid. this slave/master thing is like one of the oldest naming issues in tech
un 11 22:48:32 <jrobeson>	heck.. i was always annoyed at the master branch in git, both because i didn't like the wording, and it's technically inaccurate
Jun 11 22:49:00 <jrobeson>	it's much more accurate to call it canon or canonical
Jun 11 22:49:05 <genr8_>	I propose June 1st of every year be the word changing holiday. we all get to propose the worst ones, and put it to vote. then on July 1st the vote is counted.
Jun 11 22:49:30 <genr8_>	they we know its coming and we all have a say
Jun 11 22:49:43 <genr8_>	then*
Jun 11 22:49:49 <logiz>	that's why my master branch is called final_new_42
Jun 11 22:50:13 <jrobeson>	that's kinda difficult though genr8_, since we generally want project owners to have autonomy
Jun 11 22:50:20 <jrobeson>	project maintainers rather
Jun 11 22:50:49 <dvdmuckle>	okay why the hell does this error only happen if i use p as the verb for this formatting
Jun 11 22:50:54 <dvdmuckle>	if i use, say, f, it works fine
Jun 11 22:51:03 <genr8_>	current debate goes against autonomy and personal choice. we're forced into it by social culture
Jun 11 22:51:12 <dvdmuckle>	think this has to do with implementing the Format func
Jun 11 22:51:20 <jrobeson>	hmm? it was the project people who did it though
Jun 11 22:51:28 <logiz>	dvdmuckle: how did you make a b upside down? that's probably why, you're using an australian character set
Jun 11 22:51:30 <jrobeson>	they chose to merge it
Jun 11 22:51:34 <drakonis>	i gone and bought that itch bundle
Jun 11 22:51:40 <drakonis>	this is an excellent deal
Jun 11 22:51:51 <jrobeson>	drakonis, moo
Jun 11 22:51:55 <genr8_>	what project? im talking about the word changing around the whole tech community
Jun 11 22:51:57 <drakonis>	jrobeson, moo
Jun 11 22:52:04 <logiz>	tech community is shit
Jun 11 22:52:05 <jrobeson>	genr8_, we're talking about openzfs
Jun 11 22:52:11 <genr8_>	which the python community seems to be a thought leader of also
Jun 11 22:52:21 <jrobeson>	what about python?
Jun 11 22:52:40 <genr8_>	theres also private businesses doing the same thing with whitelist/blacklist
Jun 11 22:52:46 <jrobeson>	nothing is ringing any bells of recent times, but i haven't paid a lot of attention to python in a bit. i switched most of my scripty coding to typescript
Jun 11 22:52:47 <logiz>	private businesses are the worst
Jun 11 22:52:51 <drakonis>	TOO MANY GAMES
Jun 11 22:52:58 <drakonis>	what's this about openzfs
Jun 11 22:53:07 <jrobeson>	genr8_, they changed slaves to dependents.
Jun 11 22:53:22 <logiz>	I wonder if either of those words are even accurate descriptions
Jun 11 22:53:25 <jrobeson>	https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2020/06/openzfs-removed-master-slave-terminology-from-its-codebase/
Jun 11 22:53:25 <irkbot>	^ OpenZFS removed offensive terminology from its code | Ars Technica - [arstechnica.com]
Jun 11 22:53:35 <genr8_>	python joined the bandwagon
Jun 11 22:53:35 <jrobeson>	logiz, well you can read the PR and judge for yourself
Jun 11 22:53:55 <jrobeson>	genr8_, i won't put blacklist and whitelist in my code. i generally use safelist and blocklist
Jun 11 22:53:57 <genr8_>	its not isolated to any one entity
Jun 11 22:53:59 <jrobeson>	or allowed or disallowed
Jun 11 22:54:19 <logiz>	> This patch in question doesn't change the way the code functions—it simply changes variable names in a way that brings them in conformance with Linux upstream device-mapper terminology,
Jun 11 22:54:22 <logiz>	QED, no big deal
Jun 11 22:55:18 <jrobeson>	genr8_, but also, you mention that these changes are happening, but if there's nothing legit bad about it.. why bother spending time caring about it?
Jun 11 22:55:37 <jrobeson>	i only care because some of the worst people on the internet cause trouble for the people who do the work
Jun 11 22:55:42 <logiz>	well if it's literally being conformant with upstream linux whom uses that terminology then it'd be stupid not to
Jun 11 22:55:49 <logiz>	like who would argue against that?
Jun 11 22:55:57 <jrobeson>	read the comments

Jun 11 22:56:07 <jrobeson>	you see accusations of newspeak and references to 1984

Jun 11 22:56:22 <logiz>	that's gotta be ironic
Jun 11 22:56:26 <jrobeson>	no
Jun 11 22:56:40 <jrobeson>	dude. why do you think i talk about this shit so much..because these people exist
Jun 11 22:57:06 <logiz>	comments were removed?
Jun 11 22:57:23 <genr8_>	what these people dont get is that by imposing their will on others, they are becoming the tyranny they are trying to fight against
Jun 11 22:57:33 <jrobeson>	"Omega_Prime wrote:
Jun 11 22:57:33 <jrobeson>	"Don’t you see that the whole aim of Newspeak is to narrow the range of thought? In the end we shall make thoughtcrime literally impossible, because there will be no words in which to express it"
Jun 11 22:57:33 <jrobeson>	Getting closer every day."
Jun 11 22:57:46 <jrobeson>	genr8_, by using someone else's code, you are always at their will in some fashion
Jun 11 22:58:04 <jrobeson>	except usually it's worse.. a bug might break your system, or delete data
Jun 11 22:58:10 <genr8_>	code will no longer be accepted unless you comply with the rules. and they won't be written.
Jun 11 22:58:10 <jrobeson>	but people mostly forgive that
Jun 11 22:58:18 <jrobeson>	lol
Jun 11 22:58:27 <jrobeson>	we got a funny guy here
Jun 11 22:58:42 <logiz>	well yeah, that's exactly how merge requests work

Jun 11 22:58:55 <jrobeson>	genr8_, do you write code? at all?
Jun 11 22:59:07 <jrobeson>	do you contribute to FOSS?

Jun 11 22:59:22 <genr8_>	ad hominem attack nice

Jun 11 22:59:23 <dagbrown>	I only contribute to hipster distros
Jun 11 22:59:33 <logiz>	hipster is so 2008, I'm a hippie
Jun 11 22:59:37 <jrobeson>	genr8_, my point being is that if you don't , then you have no idea how development works
Jun 11 22:59:43 <jrobeson>	that's not ad hominem
Jun 11 23:00:06 <jrobeson>	that's like saying i should accept your opinion about a medical procedure, even though you're not a doctor
Jun 11 23:00:33 <jrobeson>	and if i say you don't know what you're talking about.. that'd be ad hominem
Jun 11 23:01:03 <jrobeson>	i'm saying that you lack the experience, so you don't have an informed opinion on the subject
Jun 11 23:01:23 <genr8_>	I guess you know best then. cya.