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Log file Meeting #PT-SP

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Oct 10th, 2013
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  1. Session Start: Wed Oct 09 19:49:30 2013
  2. Session Ident: #PT-SP
  3. 03[19:49] * Now talking in #PT-SP
  4. 01[19:49] <Yoradorc> my CP is not here but i can discuss myself
  5. 03[19:50] * tucan ([email protected]) has joined #PT-SP
  6. 04[19:50] <tucan> hi Yoradorc
  7. [19:50] <@Rolbap> okey
  8. [19:50] <tucan> :3
  9. [19:50] <@Rolbap> tucan is dMoFA
  10. 01[19:50] <Yoradorc> my vMoFA will be here in a sec
  11. 01[19:51] <Yoradorc> there's a couple of things
  12. 01[19:51] <Yoradorc> on the agreement
  13. 03[19:51] * Jack_Pirate ([email protected]) has joined #PT-SP
  14. 01[19:51] <Yoradorc> that need to be fixed
  15. 01[19:51] <Yoradorc> first and more importantly
  16. [19:51] <Jack_Pirate> hello
  17. 01[19:51] <Yoradorc> the beggining of the war
  18. 01[19:51] <Yoradorc> the date
  19. 01[19:51] <Yoradorc> it's not very explicit
  20. 01[19:51] <Yoradorc> and it would be better if it was
  21. 01[19:52] <Yoradorc> another thing is
  22. 01[19:52] <Yoradorc> changing Spain into Spanish Government and Portugal to Portuguese Government
  23. 01[19:52] <Yoradorc> so that it doesnt give room for different interpertations
  24. [19:52] <@Rolbap> no, no
  25. 04[19:53] <tucan> Yoradorc: one sec, do yu have a doc?
  26. 01[19:53] <Yoradorc> yeah
  27. [19:53] <tucan> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1yAUW_1EbNMk7ajUd92yN-xcUINVjGYhlRW1PhElZpzw/edit
  28. [19:53] <tucan> ?
  29. 01[19:53] <Yoradorc> yes that one
  30. [19:53] <tucan> ok ;)
  31. 01[19:53] <Yoradorc> but why not Rolbap?
  32. [19:53] <@Rolbap> its better spain and portugal
  33. [19:53] <@Rolbap> the gov is responsible of the behaviour of the country
  34. [19:54] <@Rolbap> if portugal cannot represent his country
  35. 01[19:54] <Yoradorc> that's true but it can have bad interpertations
  36. [19:54] <@Rolbap> that'd be a problem
  37. [19:54] <@Rolbap> for ex.?
  38. 01[19:55] <Yoradorc> for ex, if some rogue portuguese guy that doesnt like spain starts shooting for the RF
  39. 01[19:55] <Yoradorc> are we blamed?
  40. [19:55] <@Rolbap> one momento
  41. [19:56] <@Rolbap> where does it says Portugal
  42. 01[19:56] <Yoradorc> we cant control individuals... just as you cant
  43. [19:56] <@Rolbap> instead of Por. gov?
  44. 01[19:56] <Yoradorc> hum
  45. 01[19:56] <Yoradorc> wait
  46. 01[19:56] <Yoradorc> i think ours is different :s
  47. [19:57] <@Rolbap> i tkink ours too
  48. [19:57] <@Rolbap> xD
  49. 01[19:57] <Yoradorc> ah no
  50. [19:57] <@Rolbap> this doc is the official one
  51. [19:57] <@Rolbap> how it looks yours?
  52. [19:57] <tucan> its probably that MEK open RW on Norte
  53. [19:57] <Jack_Pirate> this one is correct
  54. 01[19:57] <Yoradorc> it's the same
  55. 01[19:58] <Yoradorc> i'm sorry
  56. 01[19:58] <Yoradorc> but there was a point
  57. [19:58] <Jack_Pirate> nobody can change it
  58. 01[19:58] <Yoradorc> let me see if i can figure it out
  59. 01[19:59] <Yoradorc> well, i dont know
  60. 01[19:59] <Yoradorc> it seems good enough
  61. 01[19:59] <Yoradorc> but i saw something, and the congress was complaining about it
  62. [19:59] <Jack_Pirate> its their work
  63. [19:59] <Jack_Pirate> :D
  64. [20:00] <@Rolbap> what were they complaining for?
  65. 01[20:00] <Yoradorc> well they mentioned a fiz
  66. 01[20:00] <Yoradorc> fix
  67. 01[20:00] <Yoradorc> 3. Spain will neither veto, support the veto or instigate a veto on an entry of Portugal in ACT.
  68. 01[20:00] <Yoradorc> to number 3
  69. 01[20:00] <Yoradorc> that gives them more securities
  70. 01[20:00] <Yoradorc> and us too
  71. 01[20:00] <Yoradorc> but changes nothing really
  72. [20:01] <Jack_Pirate> why not change it to spain will support Portugal entry?
  73. [20:01] <Jack_Pirate> if Spain support wont do anything of the above
  74. 01[20:01] <Yoradorc> i think their congress doesnt want that
  75. [20:01] <Jack_Pirate> oh ok
  76. [20:02] <@Rolbap> let me see
  77. [20:02] <@Rolbap> one sec
  78. 01[20:02] <Yoradorc> one more thing, have you presented it to your congress
  79. 01[20:02] <Yoradorc> ?
  80. [20:03] <tucan> yes, ofc
  81. [20:03] <tucan> right now the congress is speaking
  82. [20:04] <Jack_Pirate> oh, no reactions yet
  83. 01[20:04] <Yoradorc> what are they saying?
  84. 01[20:04] <Yoradorc> we're open for fixes as well
  85. [20:05] <tucan> i dnt know
  86. [20:05] <tucan> i dont see the private congress
  87. [20:05] <Jack_Pirate> x2
  88. [20:05] <tucan> i'm deputy
  89. 01[20:05] <Yoradorc> Rolbap probably does :p
  90. [20:05] <tucan> only nigger
  91. 01[20:05] <Yoradorc> Jack_Pirate is a nigger too :p
  92. [20:05] <Jack_Pirate> lol
  93. [20:05] <Jack_Pirate> yep
  94. [20:05] <@Rolbap> they've just started
  95. [20:05] <@Rolbap> we opened the post today
  96. [20:06] <@Rolbap> they dont like it very much
  97. [20:06] <@Rolbap> at the moment
  98. 01[20:06] <Yoradorc> :s
  99. [20:06] <@Rolbap> let me check the exact reactions
  100. 01[20:06] <Yoradorc> what are the main issues?
  101. [20:07] <@Rolbap> they are a bit affraid about the responsability of pt gob
  102. [20:07] <@Rolbap> if MEK takes a region
  103. [20:07] <@Rolbap> for ex.
  104. 01[20:07] <Yoradorc> MEK wont take a region, we guarentee you that
  105. 01[20:08] <Yoradorc> they work for the benefit of Portugal
  106. 01[20:08] <Yoradorc> taking a region is not for the benefit of Portugal
  107. 01[20:08] <Yoradorc> they only did that in the past because Spain was an enemy, now you're not
  108. [20:09] <@Rolbap> but, what if it happens again?
  109. [20:09] <@Rolbap> maybe not MEK
  110. [20:09] <Jack_Pirate> besides, even if they or someone else do that, we have more MUs willing to fight them bacj
  111. [20:09] <@Rolbap> but someone else
  112. [20:09] <Jack_Pirate> back*
  113. [20:09] <Jack_Pirate> in that case we will work together as allies to win the battle!
  114. 01[20:10] <Yoradorc> only MEK has the firepower to do it
  115. 01[20:10] <Yoradorc> :p
  116. 01[20:10] <Yoradorc> and if CoT tries to fuck with us again
  117. 01[20:10] <Yoradorc> we'll fight for Spain
  118. [20:10] <Jack_Pirate> and we ask the some from you
  119. [20:10] <Jack_Pirate> if someone tries something with us, you help us
  120. [20:11] <@Rolbap> im checking the debate
  121. [20:12] <@Rolbap> they dont really like point 6
  122. 01[20:12] <Yoradorc> why? that seems fair
  123. 01[20:12] <Yoradorc> we must think as allies
  124. 01[20:12] <Yoradorc> if you get another secure region, and by secure i mean NAP protected, we can get Norte
  125. 01[20:13] <Yoradorc> because you dont need it anymore...
  126. 01[20:13] <Yoradorc> and we do
  127. [20:13] <@Rolbap> but
  128. [20:13] <@Rolbap> for ex. if spain conquers maine
  129. [20:14] <@Rolbap> what if portugal ask to liberate norte?
  130. [20:14] <@Rolbap> saying that it is secure
  131. [20:14] <@Rolbap> even if it isn't
  132. 01[20:14] <Yoradorc> we said that it was only protected if it was NAP protected
  133. 01[20:14] <Yoradorc> and our congress understood that
  134. 01[20:14] <Yoradorc> maybe that can be clearer too
  135. [20:15] <@Rolbap> yes, it might be
  136. [20:15] <Jack_Pirate> even if it wasnt NAP protected... we eould help to maitain MAine
  137. [20:15] <Jack_Pirate> because it was our interest as well
  138. 01[20:15] <Yoradorc> yes of course
  139. [20:16] <Jack_Pirate> im pretty new to the game, but i understand the difficulty to overcome months and months of enemy status
  140. 03[20:16] * Division[ESP][vMoFA] ([email protected]) has joined #PT-SP
  141. [20:17] <@Rolbap> tucan is out
  142. [20:17] <@Rolbap> here is Division[ESP][vMoFA]
  143. [20:17] <Jack_Pirate> but i think we all are showing that we are ready for the change
  144. [20:17] <@Rolbap> another dMoFA
  145. [20:17] <Jack_Pirate> hi Division[ESP][vMoFA]
  146. [20:17] <@Rolbap> could u ready sum up?
  147. [20:17] <@Rolbap> i am attending another issue
  148. [20:17] <@Rolbap> national one
  149. [20:17] <Division[ESP][vMoFA]> Hi
  150. [20:17] <@Rolbap> im back in 1 sec
  151. [20:17] <@Rolbap> ;)
  152. [20:18] <Division[ESP][vMoFA]> Im with the phone, so please, let me take it slowly xD
  153. 01[20:20] <Yoradorc> of course
  154. [20:23] <Division[ESP][vMoFA]> I will appreciate a little resume of what's going on until I came, pls
  155. [20:29] <Jack_Pirate> sorry Division[ESP][vMoFA] , i arrived late
  156. [20:29] <Division[ESP][vMoFA]> :(
  157. [20:29] <Jack_Pirate> so i also dont know what was spoken before
  158. 04[20:30] <Jack_Pirate> Yoradorc: ?
  159. [20:30] <Jack_Pirate> can you summarize i tplz?
  160. 01[20:31] <Yoradorc> [19:51:04] <Yoradorc> there's a couple of things
  161. 01[20:31] <Yoradorc> [19:51:06] <Yoradorc> on the agreement
  162. 01[20:31] <Yoradorc> [19:51:08] * Jack_Pirate ([email protected]) has joined #PT-SP
  163. 01[20:31] <Yoradorc> [19:51:17] <Yoradorc> that need to be fixed
  164. 01[20:31] <Yoradorc> [19:51:22] <Yoradorc> first and more importantly
  165. 01[20:31] <Yoradorc> [19:51:28] <Jack_Pirate> hello
  166. 01[20:31] <Yoradorc> [19:51:34] <Yoradorc> the beggining of the war
  167. 01[20:31] <Yoradorc> [19:51:36] <Yoradorc> the date
  168. 01[20:31] <Yoradorc> [19:51:48] <Yoradorc> it's not very explicit
  169. 01[20:31] <Yoradorc> [19:51:57] <Yoradorc> and it would be better if it was
  170. 01[20:32] <Yoradorc> Jack_Pirate, o resto ja ca tavas tu, podes explicar? vou ter de ir jantar
  171. [20:32] <Jack_Pirate> lol
  172. [20:32] <Jack_Pirate> ok
  173. [20:32] <Jack_Pirate> :D
  174. [20:32] <Division[ESP][vMoFA]> Ok, i think its clear
  175. [20:33] <Division[ESP][vMoFA]> The date will be wirh the drop of the 4th mpp on common
  176. [20:33] <Jack_Pirate> ok
  177. [20:33] <Division[ESP][vMoFA]> I dont have the mpp list with dates
  178. [20:33] <Division[ESP][vMoFA]> Right here in the phone
  179. [20:34] <Division[ESP][vMoFA]> But I think its 20th or 21 of Oct
  180. [20:34] <Jack_Pirate> 21st
  181. [20:34] <@Rolbap> im back!
  182. [20:34] <Jack_Pirate> iits on the agreement
  183. [20:34] <@Rolbap> yep
  184. [20:34] <@Rolbap> about the date
  185. [20:34] <@Rolbap> i think it is enough clear
  186. [20:34] <Division[ESP][vMoFA]> Yep, that the reason I think its clear
  187. [20:34] <@Rolbap> as soon as the last common mpp drop
  188. [20:35] <@Rolbap> u send NE
  189. [20:35] <Division[ESP][vMoFA]> We dont have any interest in wait more than necessary xD
  190. [20:35] <Jack_Pirate> ofc not
  191. [20:35] <@Rolbap> the next point
  192. [20:35] <@Rolbap> about portugal and portugal government
  193. [20:36] <@Rolbap> i think there is no more problem
  194. [20:36] <@Rolbap> isnt it?
  195. [20:36] <Jack_Pirate> its a congress point not ours
  196. [20:37] <Jack_Pirate> and honestly i dont understand it very welll
  197. [20:37] <Jack_Pirate> because in one way or another we are not responsible for every citizen acts
  198. [20:37] <Jack_Pirate> only for the majority
  199. [20:38] <Jack_Pirate> the other issue was about the entry of act
  200. [20:38] <Division[ESP][vMoFA]> Yep, its like our congress
  201. [20:39] <Division[ESP][vMoFA]> They dont like MEK fooling around
  202. [20:39] <Division[ESP][vMoFA]> But cause of MEK they blame Portugal
  203. [20:39] <Jack_Pirate> i understand but its wrong...
  204. [20:39] <Jack_Pirate> but i understand
  205. [20:40] <Jack_Pirate> MEK shouldnt be a problem
  206. [20:40] <Jack_Pirate> not in the coming months unless something changes there...
  207. 03[20:40] * Division ([email protected]) has joined #PT-SP
  208. [20:40] <Division> I knw, and I knw that u are trying to fix that
  209. [20:41] <Division> But it difficult to let them see like this
  210. [20:41] <Jack_Pirate> and, if u want my opinion, we shouldnt change the agrement because one MU
  211. [20:41] <Jack_Pirate> both our countries should take care of it easily..
  212. [20:41] <Division> We try to move on, but ppl dont change his mind like us
  213. [20:41] <@Rolbap> but this only MU has quite a lot of fire power
  214. [20:41] <tucan> sorry fr my afk
  215. [20:41] <Jack_Pirate> i mean if MEK decides to do something stupid
  216. [20:42] <Jack_Pirate> Entire MEK has a nice firepower...
  217. [20:42] <Jack_Pirate> but most of MEKs support this agreement
  218. [20:42] <Jack_Pirate> so, even if a part of MEK decides diferently, it shouldnt be a problem
  219. [20:43] <@Rolbap> i mean
  220. [20:43] <@Rolbap> even if 100% of portugal agrees this this nap
  221. [20:43] <@Rolbap> the congress ask for some secure clause
  222. [20:43] <Jack_Pirate> ok... but remember
  223. [20:43] <@Rolbap> and its understandable
  224. 02[20:43] * Division[ESP][vMoFA] ([email protected]) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  225. [20:44] <Jack_Pirate> that the better this agreement is for ortugal the less risk you have to MEK fight it back
  226. [20:44] <Jack_Pirate> u know it right?
  227. [20:44] <Division> I understand what u try to say but...
  228. [20:44] <Jack_Pirate> and the better our countries go along in the future
  229. [20:45] <Jack_Pirate> harder is the risk of having MEK against uyou
  230. [20:45] <Division> Lel a country kneed by a MU
  231. [20:45] <Division> No way the going to approve something
  232. [20:45] <Division> Cause fear to a MU
  233. 01[20:46] <Yoradorc> they are rejecting
  234. [20:46] <Jack_Pirate> sry, but i dont understand your first setence
  235. 01[20:46] <Yoradorc> because they fear the MU
  236. 01[20:46] <Yoradorc> ...
  237. [20:46] <@Rolbap> are u saying
  238. 03[20:46] * surf_legend ([email protected]) has joined #PT-SP
  239. [20:46] <@Rolbap> that we should give more to pt
  240. 01[20:46] <Yoradorc> noo
  241. [20:46] <Division> Ok, you are saying that we should give u more
  242. [20:46] <Division> To make MEK happy
  243. [20:46] <@Rolbap> 21:44 Jack_Pirate that the better this agreement is for ortugal the less risk you have to MEK fight it back
  244. [20:46] <@Rolbap> yes
  245. [20:47] <@Rolbap> that's what i've understood
  246. [20:47] <Division> If I say something like that to our Congress
  247. 01[20:47] <Yoradorc> he didnt mean that
  248. 01[20:47] <Yoradorc> forget that
  249. 01[20:47] <Yoradorc> i'm negotiating now
  250. [20:47] <Division> Lel they gonna impeach us xD
  251. 03[20:48] * elMengu ([email protected]) has joined #PT-SP
  252. 01[20:48] <Yoradorc> they want more securities right?
  253. 01[20:48] <Yoradorc> what do you propose
  254. [20:48] <Division> Not even talk about the agreement, they would reject it
  255. [20:48] <Jack_Pirate> no Rolbap
  256. [20:48] <Jack_Pirate> i meant that if your congress wants more and more
  257. [20:48] <@Rolbap> elMengu, spanish MoFA
  258. [20:48] <Jack_Pirate> because of MEK
  259. [20:48] <@Rolbap> and surf_legend, vCP
  260. 01[20:48] <Yoradorc> hey Rolbap
  261. [20:49] <@Rolbap> Jack_Pirate they dont ask for more
  262. [20:49] <@Rolbap> only secure clause
  263. [20:49] <Jack_Pirate> then its ok
  264. [20:49] <@Rolbap> that if some portugese liberates a region
  265. [20:49] <@Rolbap> well
  266. [20:49] <@Rolbap> its pt responsability in some way
  267. 01[20:49] <Yoradorc> what secure clause?
  268. 04[20:49] <@Rolbap> Yoradorc i dont know
  269. [20:50] <@Rolbap> xD
  270. [20:50] <Jack_Pirate> Rolbap: we intend to fight MEK back
  271. 01[20:50] <Yoradorc> well we dont know either...
  272. [20:50] <Jack_Pirate> and help you on that
  273. [20:50] <Jack_Pirate> more than this is impossible
  274. [20:50] <Division> A personal opinion...
  275. [20:51] <Division> Here in spain we had severals MUs that
  276. [20:51] <Division> Fight against Spain
  277. [20:51] <Division> When we saw that we removed them to the government supplies and benefits
  278. [20:52] <elMengu> they fleed the country
  279. [20:52] <Jack_Pirate> we also have some black sheeps as welll
  280. [20:52] <Jack_Pirate> ahhahahah
  281. [20:52] <Division> U probably know that militias, our political groups that promote that in Spain
  282. [20:52] <Jack_Pirate> very smaller ones
  283. [20:52] <Division> They ask for your CS
  284. [20:52] <Division> Or French
  285. [20:52] <Jack_Pirate> ours?
  286. 04[20:52] <Jack_Pirate> Yoradorc: ?
  287. [20:53] <elMengu> or egyptian
  288. 01[20:53] <Yoradorc> i dont know anything about that...
  289. [20:53] <Division> Not now
  290. [20:53] <Jack_Pirate> me neither
  291. [20:54] <Division> Time ago, maybe you should Let MEK now that if they hit against us, they are going to get anything from the gov
  292. 03[20:54] * TheFlame ([email protected]) has joined #PT-SP
  293. [20:54] <TheFlame> hey hey
  294. [20:54] <Division> Idk what kind of thing do u usually do xD
  295. 01[20:54] <Yoradorc> Division, they don't get anything from the gov...
  296. 01[20:54] <Yoradorc> we dont fund private MUs
  297. 01[20:55] <Yoradorc> we only fund individual players
  298. 01[20:55] <Yoradorc> in coordinated attacks
  299. 01[20:55] <Yoradorc> where every citizen can join
  300. [20:55] <TheFlame> everybody ignoring me, now I feel sad...
  301. [20:55] <TheFlame> :|
  302. [20:55] <elMengu> mek is self-sufficient
  303. [20:55] <Jack_Pirate> olá TheFlame
  304. 01[20:56] <Yoradorc> not really elMengu
  305. 01[20:56] <Yoradorc> but you can say that yes
  306. [20:57] <Division> O/ theflame
  307. [20:58] <TheFlame> Division: you are such an educated boy! Love you!
  308. [20:58] <TheFlame> hi o/
  309. [20:58] <Division> Not akasha today, so.. only cocks in this chat :_
  310. [20:58] <TheFlame> i like her ;'(
  311. [20:59] <elMengu> lol
  312. [20:59] <tucan> lol
  313. 01[20:59] <Yoradorc> lol
  314. [20:59] <@Rolbap> lol
  315. [20:59] <Division> We partyhard the other day, when the nap get ready
  316. [20:59] <Division> Sisi
  317. [21:00] <tucan> akasha are drunk
  318. [21:00] <@Rolbap> okey
  319. [21:00] <@Rolbap> pl0x
  320. [21:00] <TheFlame> lol?
  321. [21:00] <@Rolbap> about the NAP
  322. [21:00] <TheFlame> AKASHA IS DRUNK?
  323. [21:00] <@Rolbap> dont distract
  324. [21:00] <tucan> is a female
  325. [21:00] <TheFlame> I FINNALY HAVE A SHOT?
  326. [21:00] <tucan> xD
  327. [21:00] <TheFlame> YES
  328. [21:00] <TheFlame> !
  329. [21:00] <Division> Lol
  330. [21:01] <tucan> i dont think....sorry bro
  331. [21:01] <tucan> :|
  332. 01[21:01] <Yoradorc> focus people
  333. 01[21:01] <Yoradorc> please
  334. 01[21:01] <Yoradorc> Rolbap
  335. 01[21:01] <Yoradorc> what else?
  336. [21:02] <@Rolbap> lets make some sum up
  337. [21:02] <@Rolbap> 1-the date of the NE
  338. [21:02] <Division> Nesspreso, what else :)
  339. [21:02] <@Rolbap> 2- PT gob instead of PT
  340. [21:02] <@Rolbap> 3- veto of ACT
  341. 04[21:02] <@Rolbap> im wrong Yoradorc?
  342. [21:02] <Jack_Pirate> that it
  343. 01[21:02] <Yoradorc> yes, that what was discussed in our congress
  344. [21:03] <Division> Veto of ACT?
  345. [21:03] <Division> I think its clear that we are not going to veto u
  346. [21:04] <@Rolbap> hahaha
  347. [21:04] <@Rolbap> no, about the 3. of the NAP
  348. [21:04] <@Rolbap> not only not going to veto them
  349. [21:04] <@Rolbap> but not going to suppor someone to veto them
  350. 04[21:04] <@Rolbap> am i right Yoradorc
  351. [21:04] <@Rolbap> ??
  352. 01[21:05] <Yoradorc> yeah
  353. 01[21:05] <Yoradorc> they proposed this: 3. Spain will neither veto, support the veto or instigate a veto on an entry of Portugal in ACT.
  354. [21:06] <Division> I will agree with that, but if someone veto u, some Portuguese ppl are going to say that we are guilty
  355. [21:07] <Division> How we prove that?
  356. 01[21:07] <Yoradorc> hum... that's true but most TWO countries like Portugal
  357. 01[21:07] <Yoradorc> they are affraid of Poland
  358. 01[21:08] <Yoradorc> that you tell Poland to veto us
  359. 01[21:08] <Yoradorc> but i don't think they will do that
  360. 01[21:08] <Yoradorc> but they want securities obviously
  361. [21:13] <Division> PL its our bro, but they take its owns decisions, like mpp with arg
  362. [21:14] <Division> We cant sign anything talking about ehat they are going to do
  363. [21:14] <Division> What*
  364. 01[21:14] <Yoradorc> i know, and i dont think poland will do anything against us
  365. 01[21:14] <Yoradorc> on the contrary:P
  366. [21:17] <elMengu> right
  367. [21:17] <elMengu> but if we let you into ACT
  368. [21:18] <elMengu> you must understand we have to make sure you don't make any opposition against us within the alliance
  369. [21:18] <elMengu> and that mean no support for countries vetoed by Spain who want into TWO
  370. [21:19] <elMengu> in other words, if Spain vetoes X country (we all know the countries I'm talking about), then portugal must support spain's decision
  371. [21:19] <surf_legend> yep we're not going to empower a country who's gonna be a pain in our ass :/
  372. [21:19] <Division> Its reasonable
  373. [21:19] <elMengu> i mean, we're not going to lead you into our alliance and then you start welcoming countries with which Spain has a opposition to
  374. 01[21:20] <Yoradorc> ahh, Argentina
  375. [21:20] <elMengu> basically CUA + Romania
  376. [21:20] <elMengu> i must add poland despises romania too
  377. 01[21:21] <Yoradorc> but if Spain vetoes
  378. 01[21:21] <Yoradorc> isnt that the same?
  379. [21:22] <elMengu> nope
  380. [21:22] <elMengu> for example arg and rom are in TWO's channel
  381. [21:22] <elMengu> when they're not even in the alliance
  382. [21:22] <elMengu> our veto isn't enough to stop that from happening, for example
  383. 02[21:23] * tucan ([email protected]) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
  384. [21:23] <elMengu> we need support and you say you want to be our friends
  385. [21:23] <surf_legend> ^this
  386. [21:23] <elMengu> so if we go along with this pact
  387. [21:23] <elMengu> we both need to make it for real
  388. [21:23] <surf_legend> the main problem for spain with pt is your love for argies
  389. [21:23] <Jack_Pirate> lol
  390. 01[21:23] <Yoradorc> uhum...
  391. 01[21:24] <Yoradorc> that's true
  392. 01[21:24] <Yoradorc> we love argies
  393. [21:24] <Jack_Pirate> so how can we overcome that?
  394. [21:24] <elMengu> i'm afraid we can't decide for you
  395. 01[21:25] <Yoradorc> we need to think this through
  396. 01[21:25] <Yoradorc> we dont want to leave argentina
  397. 01[21:25] <Yoradorc> nor CUA
  398. [21:25] <elMengu> and we don't want to get yet another argentina supporter in TWO
  399. [21:25] <surf_legend> well, we're not asking that you insult argentina, just that you stop writting articles to blow them up
  400. [21:26] <surf_legend> and to support spain :/
  401. 04[21:26] <elMengu> Yoradorc just as you think its tragic to abbandon argentina, we think its tragic to let portugal into ACT
  402. [21:26] <surf_legend> it's like support spain and not argentina
  403. [21:26] <elMengu> if we're going to make sacrifices you need to do too
  404. [21:27] <elMengu> and i say letting portugal into A
  405. [21:27] <elMengu> ACT is tragic because
  406. [21:27] <elMengu> of your support for CUA
  407. 03[21:27] * @Rolbap ([email protected]) has left #PT-SP
  408. [21:28] <Division> He had another meeting with eVene, that he have to attend
  409. [21:28] <elMengu> anyway, we've been told already by many PT govts that you want to be our friends
  410. 01[21:28] <Yoradorc> let us think this through okay?
  411. [21:29] <elMengu> now that we are willing to accept it
  412. [21:29] <elMengu> it's your decision to prove it
  413. [21:29] <elMengu> so yes, of course, have your time to think about it
  414. 01[21:29] <Yoradorc> cant we be neutral?
  415. [21:29] <elMengu> and come back to us when you think you have an answer
  416. 01[21:29] <Yoradorc> towards everything related to CUA and RO?
  417. [21:29] <elMengu> if by neutral you mean no opposition against CUA then yes
  418. 01[21:29] <Yoradorc> yes
  419. [21:30] <elMengu> but you must veto them if you're granted that power
  420. 01[21:30] <Yoradorc> that seems more reasonable
  421. [21:30] <elMengu> think of it this way
  422. [21:30] <elMengu> you have to veto them because of the pact
  423. [21:30] <elMengu> in exchange you'll be a full ACT member
  424. 03[21:30] * SpMky ([email protected]) has joined #PT-SP
  425. [21:30] <SpMky> hey guys
  426. [21:30] <elMengu> i'm trying to understand PT's situation here
  427. [21:30] <SpMky> elMengu: <3
  428. [21:31] <elMengu> that's why i'm not asking you to NE them or anything
  429. [21:31] <elMengu> just support spain's decisions regarding CUA and RO in TWO
  430. [21:31] <elMengu> just that
  431. [21:31] <elMengu> o/ SpMky
  432. [21:31] <SpMky> elMengu: here's the thing
  433. 01[21:31] <Yoradorc> does that mean we cant have MPP with Argentina?
  434. 01[21:31] <Yoradorc> and CUA?
  435. [21:31] <elMengu> at least not for the first month
  436. [21:32] <elMengu> then you would have another meeting with the then ESP govt
  437. [21:32] <SpMky> we can be neutral in the CUA situation but we can't write it in the agreement... and you know it
  438. [21:32] <elMengu> i actually haven't thought about that yet tbh
  439. [21:32] <SpMky> you know our congress would reject it without a second thought
  440. [21:32] <elMengu> SpMky i said earlier spain is making a sacrifice to let you into ACT
  441. [21:32] <elMengu> you must make sacrifices too
  442. [21:33] <SpMky> and you damn well know dropping those MPP would mean a backstep in portugal-spain relations
  443. [21:33] <elMengu> support, only that
  444. [21:33] <SpMky> *step back
  445. [21:33] <elMengu> that's your decision
  446. [21:33] <elMengu> for us it's much easier to either ask you to NE them
  447. [21:33] <elMengu> or we ourselves NE you
  448. [21:34] <elMengu> but we came to listen to you
  449. [21:34] <elMengu> asking us to let you into ACT
  450. [21:34] <elMengu> now you must listen to us
  451. [21:34] <Division> SpMky, we erase the 4 point, that talks about public denunciation of the MUs that hits against us
  452. [21:34] <SpMky> which you don't intend to do anyway... (NE us)
  453. [21:34] <elMengu> you can never know
  454. [21:34] <SpMky> i do know
  455. [21:34] <SpMky> i bet
  456. [21:34] <SpMky> come on elMengu
  457. [21:34] <SpMky> it would be a waist of resources
  458. [21:35] <SpMky> wtf *waste
  459. [21:35] <elMengu> dropping those MPPs?
  460. [21:35] <SpMky> nope
  461. [21:35] <SpMky> NE us
  462. [21:35] <SpMky> would be absurd right now
  463. [21:35] <SpMky> so listen...
  464. [21:35] <elMengu> pretty much everything in this game is a waste of resources
  465. [21:35] <elMengu> and we need aluminium
  466. [21:36] <SpMky> if we write in the pact that we will never support our lifelong allies it won't pass
  467. [21:36] <SpMky> but you know that we can work around that
  468. [21:36] <elMengu> right
  469. [21:36] <elMengu> let me ask you something
  470. [21:36] <SpMky> go on
  471. [21:36] <elMengu> you're telling me your congress wouldn't pass that pact
  472. [21:37] <elMengu> so you don't want us to ask that from you
  473. [21:37] <elMengu> but
  474. [21:37] <elMengu> do you, as a government, agree?
  475. 01[21:37] <Yoradorc> i don't
  476. 01[21:37] <Yoradorc> as MoFA
  477. 01[21:37] <Yoradorc> but i really want this agreement to be done
  478. [21:37] <Division> Wtf, we have just right in the pact that we are going to aloud you enter ACT.
  479. [21:37] <SpMky> i believe we have to give in at something to be allies
  480. [21:37] <elMengu> exactly
  481. [21:38] <Division> I thing that we dont want to do, cause your friendship with CUA
  482. [21:38] <SpMky> so, let me tell you just one thing
  483. [21:38] <SpMky> there's a high profile asshole that half the community worships
  484. [21:38] <SpMky> shooting at our CP left and right
  485. [21:38] <SpMky> so, half the community actually will believe anything he says
  486. [21:39] <SpMky> the problem is: he knows nothing about international affairs
  487. [21:39] <SpMky> and we would be crushed in the congress
  488. [21:39] <elMengu> i honestly don't want this to sound harsh
  489. [21:39] <elMengu> but those are your circumstances
  490. [21:39] <elMengu> which our independent from us
  491. [21:40] <elMengu> as a government it's your duty to avoid that
  492. [21:40] <SpMky> what about we let Poland and Serbia know that if CUA applies our vote doesn't count? Smoke and mirrors
  493. [21:40] <SpMky> it won't be pretty
  494. [21:40] <SpMky> but we do what we have to for our country
  495. [21:40] <SpMky> same as you ;)
  496. [21:40] <elMengu> exactly
  497. [21:41] <elMengu> anyway, if you're granted the power of veto
  498. [21:41] <elMengu> you will be excluded at your own request
  499. [21:41] <elMengu> and i repeat, at your own request
  500. [21:41] <elMengu> from the votings to allow or not CUA and ROM into TWO
  501. [21:41] <Division> Spmky, your vote counts. Just veto them, like we would do, and friendship is magic.
  502. 01[21:41] <Yoradorc> let me get this straight
  503. [21:41] <elMengu> but you must support spain's decision
  504. [21:41] <elMengu> just mere protocol
  505. [21:41] <elMengu> no vote
  506. [21:41] <elMengu> but verbally support spain
  507. 01[21:41] <Yoradorc> can we abstain from all matters regarding CUA?
  508. 01[21:42] <Yoradorc> that can be done
  509. [21:42] <Division> Well seems elmengu is less nasi like me xD
  510. [21:42] <Division> Than me*
  511. 04[21:42] <elMengu> not exactly Yoradorc
  512. [21:42] <elMengu> de facto you can
  513. [21:42] <elMengu> but not de jure
  514. [21:42] <elMengu> you must openly support spain
  515. [21:42] <elMengu> but you may be allowed to avoid the voting
  516. [21:43] <elMengu> however we still need to work on that
  517. [21:43] <elMengu> because that's a big step for us
  518. 01[21:43] <Yoradorc> why must we openly support spain?
  519. [21:43] <elMengu> that's as flexible as i can be
  520. [21:43] <elMengu> don't pull the string any further
  521. 04[21:43] <elMengu> well Yoradorc, because we allow you into ACT
  522. [21:43] <SpMky> so, why son't we just say we are biased in those matters and must abstain to comment or vote?
  523. [21:43] <elMengu> that's a big step for us
  524. 02[21:43] * Division ([email protected]) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
  525. 03[21:44] * Division ([email protected]) has joined #PT-SP
  526. 01[21:44] <Yoradorc> i know
  527. [21:44] <elMengu> because we need full support
  528. [21:44] <elMengu> you need ACT and we need support
  529. 01[21:44] <Yoradorc> but you do know
  530. [21:44] <elMengu> fair deal i say
  531. [21:44] <Division> Yo
  532. 01[21:45] <Yoradorc> that we will be considered as puppets
  533. [21:45] <Division> Fail channel xD
  534. 01[21:45] <Yoradorc> and we dont want that, really
  535. [21:46] <elMengu> if we lead you into TWO you'd be serbia's puppet
  536. [21:46] <elMengu> like everyone else xD
  537. 01[21:46] <Yoradorc> why would you say that?
  538. 01[21:46] <Yoradorc> we are our own country
  539. [21:46] <Division> We will be considered as idiots, if we let enter a country that doesn't support us xD
  540. 01[21:46] <Yoradorc> we speak for the interests of us and our friends
  541. [21:46] <elMengu> anyway, there is only one clause on this matter
  542. [21:46] <elMengu> support for spain
  543. [21:47] <elMengu> that's not being puppets
  544. 01[21:47] <Yoradorc> it's pretty much the same
  545. [21:47] <elMengu> you'd be puppets if we sent you on a war against CUA and you accepted
  546. [21:47] <SpMky> elMengu: let me get this straight
  547. [21:48] <SpMky> are you asking for our full support in the CUA and ROM issues or all the issues that arise?
  548. 01[21:48] <Yoradorc> we'll be puppets if we are forced to go against our will
  549. 01[21:49] <Yoradorc> and as members of an alliance, that's not good
  550. [21:49] <elMengu> SpMky the point is to not appose spain within TWO
  551. [21:49] <elMengu> and only in the CUA and ROM matter show support
  552. [21:49] <elMengu> oppose*
  553. 01[21:49] <Yoradorc> we will not oppose
  554. [21:49] <Jack_Pirate> elMengu: if that goes on, and one year from now we take a decision against you, how would it be?
  555. [21:49] <elMengu> one year is too long Jack_Pirate
  556. [21:49] <elMengu> this needs to be discussed every month
  557. [21:49] <Jack_Pirate> make it 6 months
  558. [21:49] <Jack_Pirate> =)
  559. [21:50] <elMengu> hmm when you're negotiating to enter an alliance you can't tell the guy who's gonna let you in
  560. [21:50] <elMengu> that you'll oppose him
  561. [21:50] <elMengu> whether tomorrow or in 6 months
  562. [21:50] <elMengu> just sayin'
  563. [21:50] <elMengu> i tried to make it easier for you
  564. [21:50] <elMengu> and just leave it as a topic of debate every month
  565. 01[21:51] <Yoradorc> elMengu, on the alliances votings, doesnt one veto count to get a country not to enter?
  566. [21:52] <elMengu> yes
  567. [21:52] <elMengu> but i've already explained that
  568. [21:52] <elMengu> it's not all about the votings
  569. [21:52] <elMengu> besides, even if one veto counts, we need full support
  570. [21:53] <elMengu> why would any country let another into their alliance if it isn't all good for them?
  571. 01[21:53] <Yoradorc> it is good for you
  572. [21:53] <elMengu> that depends
  573. 01[21:53] <Yoradorc> you get Norte
  574. 01[21:53] <Yoradorc> and a country that will support you on your battles
  575. [21:53] <elMengu> at the moment we need more diplomatic support than military support
  576. [21:53] <elMengu> strictly speaking
  577. 04[21:54] <Division> Yoradorc, we could get Norte by the battle way
  578. [21:54] <elMengu> anyway, we're inflexible about this
  579. [21:54] <elMengu> we won't change our minds
  580. [21:54] <elMengu> you want into ACT, well here's our condition
  581. [21:54] <elMengu> no support for our enemies; support us
  582. [21:54] <Division> (elMengu) at the moment we need more diplomatic support than military support
  583. [21:54] <Division> This
  584. [21:55] <elMengu> and i'll say again letting you into our alliance is a very delicate topic for us
  585. 01[21:55] <Yoradorc> we need time to think
  586. [21:55] <elMengu> and we must make sure we don't leave any lose ends
  587. [21:55] <elMengu> yes
  588. [21:55] <elMengu> take your time
  589. 01[21:55] <Yoradorc> i'll give you an answer tomorrow
  590. 01[21:55] <Yoradorc> and we must meet again
  591. [21:55] <elMengu> whenever you think you have an answer
  592. 02[21:56] * TheFlame ([email protected]) Quit (Killed (NickServ (GHOST command used by AndChat|486164)))
  593. [21:57] <Jack_Pirate> this objection
  594. [21:57] <Jack_Pirate> is from your gov or the congress?
  595. [21:57] <elMengu> which objection?
  596. [21:57] <Jack_Pirate> about Portugal supporting Spain politicaly
  597. [21:58] <surf_legend> both
  598. [21:59] <Jack_Pirate> is there anything else?
  599. [21:59] <elMengu> it's a common interest for spaniards, Jack_Pirate
  600. [21:59] <Jack_Pirate> ok np i was asking because it was mentioned today
  601. [21:59] <elMengu> if you really want to be our friends, as many PT govts have been saying for a few months, then that needs to actually be true
  602. [21:59] <elMengu> not just a bit of true
  603. [22:00] <Jack_Pirate> we were as true as we could be
  604. [22:00] <Jack_Pirate> because if we were lying
  605. [22:00] <Jack_Pirate> we would be saying no problem
  606. [22:00] <Jack_Pirate> we accept that
  607. [22:00] <Jack_Pirate> but we want a fair agreement to everyone
  608. [22:00] <Jack_Pirate> and so do you
  609. [22:00] <Jack_Pirate> right?
  610. [22:01] <surf_legend> yep
  611. [22:01] <elMengu> spain's baptism of fire to show a friendly stance to portugal is letting you into our alliance
  612. [22:01] <elMengu> portugal's baptism of fire would be showing support for the country that gets you into TWO
  613. [22:01] <Jack_Pirate> ok, but you must think both ways...
  614. [22:01] <Jack_Pirate> and forget im vMoFA
  615. [22:01] <Jack_Pirate> im a common citizen
  616. [22:01] <Jack_Pirate> the meeting is over
  617. [22:01] <Jack_Pirate> =)
  618. [22:02] <Jack_Pirate> we already are giving you 3 regions
  619. [22:02] <Jack_Pirate> giving you all support
  620. [22:02] <Jack_Pirate> in battles
  621. [22:02] <elMengu> TWO already masses 65% of world damage
  622. [22:02] <elMengu> more damage wouldn't make much difference
  623. [22:02] <Jack_Pirate> yes
  624. [22:02] <surf_legend> at all
  625. [22:03] <surf_legend> at least for us :(
  626. [22:03] <surf_legend> :( ->cause it's boring
  627. [22:03] <Jack_Pirate> im talking on congress acceptance
  628. [22:03] <Jack_Pirate> our congress
  629. [22:03] <surf_legend> okey
  630. [22:04] <Jack_Pirate> do we have your word that this is the last demand?
  631. [22:04] <Jack_Pirate> or you cannot say that...
  632. [22:05] <elMengu> our last demand adding to the ones already stipulated
  633. [22:05] <elMengu> that is what you already negotiated before i joined the channel + this
  634. [22:05] <elMengu> that's all
  635. [22:06] <Jack_Pirate> ok
  636. 04[22:07] <Jack_Pirate> i was waiting for Yoradorc return...
  637. [22:07] <Jack_Pirate> :s
  638. 03[22:09] * akashapeke ([email protected]) has joined #PT-SP
  639. [22:09] <akashapeke> hi
  640. [22:10] <Jack_Pirate> hi
  641. [22:11] <elMengu> any idea what he's doing?
  642. [22:11] <Jack_Pirate> he's talking inside gov
  643. [22:11] <elMengu> ah right
  644. [22:12] <elMengu> what about the flame?
  645. [22:12] <Jack_Pirate> the pt CP will arrive here within 5 minutes
  646. [22:12] <elMengu> ok
  647. [22:12] <Jack_Pirate> or less
  648. 01[22:15] <Yoradorc> we will speak tomorrow ok?
  649. [22:15] <elMengu> yes
  650. [22:17] <elMengu> have you got any suggestions regarding the time?
  651. 03[22:18] * surf_legend ([email protected]) has left #PT-SP
  652. 01[22:20] <Yoradorc> elMengu, we will discuss it today
  653. 01[22:20] <Yoradorc> tonight
  654. 01[22:20] <Yoradorc> and i will tell you first thing tomorrow
  655. [22:20] <akashapeke> ok
  656. 01[22:20] <Yoradorc> the time, ok?
  657. [22:21] <elMengu> you'll have to send a PM or tell someone in my team
  658. [22:21] <elMengu> i'll be online... afternoon
  659. 01[22:23] <Yoradorc> sure
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