Knight Rasani Morrog says, "Is there a way we can take into account guilds that have opened up their
membership to both of their tethered cities? For example, the Templar have recently reopened their
ranks to Duiran, can we then become a class that they're allowed to pick their city, since we're
letting them be from either? Normally it forces a start in Enorian, but we'd had a few people show
interest in our class, but more interest in the forestal city."
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The body of Toz appears in a flash and his soul descends to fill it, causing the previously
expressionless face to fill with emotion.
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(Leaders): Rosdes says, "The same applies for the Illuminai. We've always allowed membership in
either city."
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Oleis, the Infused says, "This is going to come with a necessary shift toward city and guild
membership being linked. Joining the guild will require you to join the city."
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Oleis, the Infused says, "This is part of that reducing population segmentation."
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(Leaders): Neoma says, "Indo also allows both cities."
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Knight Rasani Morrog says, "Should we then close our ranks? Or allow them to do it after they learn
the ropes and become involved with the guild?"
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(Leaders): Erzsebet says, "Ve'kahi does, too."
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Oleis, the Infused says, "Having a Duiranite in an Enorian guild is compelling in theory, because
their loyalties may be split, but it tends to work out the way neutrality arguments do: everyone is
afraid to start conflict for fear of severing those many ties."
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(Leaders): Rhyot says, "Vekahi isn't a guild."
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(Leaders): Rhyot says, "So your argument isn't valid, Erz."
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Xenia grows still and her lips begin to move silently.
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(Leaders): Erzsebet says, "Assumed houses would be forced thus, too."
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Xenia is enveloped in translucent fire for a moment and is gone, her soul safe until she returns to
Aetolia.
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(Leaders): Pilar says, "Good point, Oleis."
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(Leaders): Oleis says, "Houses will be in a different position."
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(Leaders): Rhyot says, "Houses != Guild."
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(Leaders): Rhyot says, "Or ~= dependiing on how you code."
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Faint whispers slip around the room nearby as the cold of night wraps itself around the building.

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Knight Rasani Morrog says, "Hmm, alright. Will we be allowed to leave those who are already in
Duiran in the Templar?"
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(Leaders): Pilar says, "I remember back in the old days Sents and Druids would allow people to join
Enorian if only to keep a watch on them. It was supposed to be to make sure civilization didn't
expand, basically spies."
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Oleis, the Infused says, "We're going to work with guild leaders to form and strengthen identities
directly tied to the cities that host them. I'm not going to firmly say that we'll expel non-
citizens, but that may be the most natural result."
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Knight Rasani Morrog says, "Spooky thought, alright. Thank you."
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Oleis, the Infused says, "Tina is next."
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Oleis, the Infused says, "Pilar, Kanivara and Aymah will follow."
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Tina Cardinalis, the Tainted asks, "I'm curious about the relation between cities and guilds perhaps
a bit more in general. At these meetings you said you would be tying guilds much closer to cities.
Making them more integral.  Making it impossible for cities and their guilds to be at odds with each
other. Now having to be in a city to join the guild.  What will this mean for players that are
already in a city that isn't the same as their guild's base?  Will they be at a disadvantage?  What
will happen to guilds that have a large population away from their home city?  Like the Carnifex and
Sciomancers?"
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Zarnton scurries in, ready to badger.
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Oleis, the Infused says, "I believe the discussion with Rasani just now covered a large part of that,
 but I can go into more detail about your last example, of Carni and Sciomancers. I'm sympathetic to
the ideas behind them, because I pushed for grand change in many orgs I was involved in."
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(Leaders): Pilar says, "Also you answered my question, you can skip me."
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(Leaders): Fezzix says, "So tethered classes are required to join the correct city and then pick a
guild in that city? But non-tethered classes are left to a free for all. That's unfair to the Syssin
and Sentaari. I'd very much like to see this preempted instead of observed. I want my guild to be on
the same playing field as all the others. As for the neutral tether, it can have the same
implication it does now where someone leaving the tether gets to keep the class or anyone can
multiclass into it."
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Wylliam uses Woodlore Conceal.
Wylliam steps into the shadows, concealing his identity within the darkness.
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Oleis, the Infused says, "Carnifex, to be specific, began their lean toward Spinesreach mostly out
of coincidence. A strong leader in both places wanted to tie them together, so it happened. The
admin could have intervened, but it was mostly harmless, and it seemed to do well for both places.
What has resulted, however, is a culture that they're inherently Spirean despite the fact that
they're consuming souls and reveling in many of the ideals that fuel Bloodloch."
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Oleis, the Infused says, "If class is important to guild, and many, many of you have emphasized that
it is, then the details of the class should inform the details of the guild."
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Alathesia morphs before your eyes, taking on the form of Solar.
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Oleis, the Infused says, "If guild culture overrides class culture, then guild and class need to be
caught in less of a stranglehold. The idea that we could have someone drawn in by the SKILLS of a
class but alienated by opposing themes from the guild is pretty bizarre unless guilds are there to
serve a role purpose rather than a functional purpose, i.e. class dispenser."
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(Leaders): Kanivara says, "The details of the Carnifex class have -always- been tied to the Tarea
Mountains, not the city of Bloodloch. Additionally, we are -not- Spirean in culture, as a guild. A
lot of us -are- Spirean, but the guild has its culture all its own, that is not tied to -either-
city."
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(Leaders): Fezzix says, "I don't want the Syssin guild to be on an inherent handicap right out of
the gate."
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Oleis, the Infused says, "I am open to either side of that argument, and prevailing player opinion
should guide my decision there, but playing both sides or striking up the middle is not healthy or
useful."
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(Leaders): Neoma says, "I dont see a guild as a class dispenser as people all multiclass, i see more
lore, history and rp being the attraction."
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Oleis, the Infused says, "I'm going to move to the next question/comment, but I trust that this
theme is probably not going anywhere."
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(Leaders): Razmael says, "Well as the guy playing Severn at the time, I do have to say that's
objectively incorrect. Carnifex started out as a Bloodloch guild, and due to some tensions that rose
up between Carnifex membership and Bloodloch membership, I made a (poor in hindsight) decision as
Severn to offer the Carnifex a way out of the situation, by building them a guildhall in the Tareans.
"
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Tina Cardinalis, the Tainted says, "Well, I'd just like to state several of us have put a lot of
time into both cities and guilds that aren't based in them.  They've become a large part of our
characters, and we became a part of the orgs.  And I don't like the idea of having to choose one
over the other in the near future.  Thank you for explaining more."
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Oleis, the Infused says, "Whoops, sorry."
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Oleis, the Infused says, "I didn't mean to cut you off, Tina."
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(Leaders): Aymah says, "Personally, I think it's the natural way of things for people to migrate
between allied cities even while belonging to a guild that is rooted inherently to one or the other.
Duiran and Enorian, for example, they stand for very different things but sort of on the same side
of the playing field. So I don't think that in this case it's so far fetched that a Sentinel would
join Enorian or a Templar Duiran if it fits their... hippier lifestyle, so to speak."
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(Spinesreach): Oisynne says, from Albedos, "Salutations!"
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(Spinesreach): Drestyn says, "Get to work."
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(Leaders): Rhyot says, "Why not just move Scio to BL and Carni to Spines..."
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(Spinesreach): Drestyn says, "Haha, I kid. Hi."
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Oleis, the Infused says, "We saw a very similar response to the idea of tether, and while a few
still ride that hardcore neutrality argument, the end result is a world more suited to conflict.
Whether it's fighting or roleplay, conflict is ultimately what drives this game."
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(Leaders): Rhyot says, "Fix the problem entirely."
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(Spinesreach): Oisynne says, "What work is there to do?!"
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(Leaders): Pilar says, "In the past though, neither Druids nor Sentinels allowed people to join
Enorian accept with the mission to watch over them and make sure they didn't expand."
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(Leaders): Fezzix says, "Because game lore doesn't fit that, Rhyot."
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(Spinesreach): Drestyn says, "I don't know. Go build a mud castle at the gates or something."
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(Spinesreach): Oisynne says, "Oh, that could be very fun!"
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(Leaders): Rhyot says, "Meh."
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(Leaders): Pilar says, "It was their way of keeping an eye on civilization expanding too far into
the wilds but that whole thing has shifted over the years."
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Officer Kanivara Sor'Tirivan-Talfileir says, "One moment, forming the statement."
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A familiar weight settles into your hands as Ironbeard the Magnanimous returns to you.
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Zarnton leaves to the out.
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Rhyot sips the last drops from an Arionic chalice with traces of an enigmatic elixir of knowledge.

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(Leaders): Aymah says, "And in the past there were Sentinels who wanted to completely destroy cities.
 Things change, and I can see how someone can be comfortable in a guild, and comfortable in their
allied city, but not necessarily at easy in the city their guild is based within. I think forcing
this sort of thing will cause this people to have to choose between one of the two and eventually
drive them out of either."
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(Spinesreach): Oisynne says, from Albedos, "Oh, but I have some posters to make first..."
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(Leaders): Fezzix says, "The Syssin started a war with the vamps not too long ago, and the Carnifex
got all broken up over it because of their ties with both cities."
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(Leaders): Fezzix says, "Which wouldn't have happened if they belonged to a single city."
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Alathesia eats a kidney slice.
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(Leaders): Fezzix says, "That conflict, by the way, was entirely organic and encouraged by the lore
happening at the time."
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(Leaders): Pilar says, "I think it's good we make people pick sides though. Hanging onto neutrality
is too much."
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Wylliam uses Woodlore Conceal.
Wylliam steps into the shadows, concealing his identity within the darkness.
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Kanivara morphs before your eyes, taking on the form of Graffeon.
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Officer Kanivara Sor'Tirivan-Talfileir says, "Alright so. I have a bunch of players who are not even
remotely pleased with the idea of being -forced- to join Bloodloch. Those of us who are in
Spinesreach are in Spinesreach because we wanted to be Living. Bloodloch's laws specifically state
that you have to be Azudim, which is not acceptable for the storyline of some individuals in the
guild, or Undead, which is -also- unacceptable for the individual storylines of some of us. You're
also incorrect about our culture. Carnifex who live in Spinesreach are -Carnifex- first, Spirean
second. We have a code: Strength in Fealty, Strength in Soul, strength in Slaughter. When it comes
down to the shit hitting the fan, we're doing what works best for -our guild-, as seen in Fezzix's
half-understood statement about the Syssin v Consanguine conflict."
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(Leaders): Fezzix says, "Kani, I was a bigger part of that conflict than you were. Do you have a
better explanation for the Carnifex going into turmoil over it? Raz just gave a very valid
explanation over why things shifted where they weren't meant to go, too."
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(Leaders): Oleis says, "We'll focus the discussion on the room for right now."
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(Leaders): Fezzix says, "Alright."
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Oleis, the Infused says, "I'm going to go back to what I said when discussing with Tina. Either the
flavor of the class should inform the flavor of the guild, or we need to loosen the ties between
class and guild so that players can move for the GUILD that draws them most."