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  11. chalcedony Apr 15th, 2018 8 in 17 hours
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  15. This part of the log is from my second client, while my main client was down.
  16. I think RAS| covered most of the issues in this first conversation, but the lower log covers it and has some feedback.
  17.  
  18. [07:50:45] * Rogg (~EXX@EYErc.users.undernet.org) has joined #politics
  19. [07:50:45] * chalcedny` gives voice to Rogg
  20. [07:50:45] * X sets ban on *!*@EYErc.users.undernet.org
  21. [07:50:45] * X has kicked Rogg from #politics ((duckdodgers) You give dirty politics a bad name.)
  22. [07:51:57] <Thad> Looking at today’s new this country is about to blow up. We hate each other
  23. [07:52:03] <RAS|> Zuckerburg just sat and diverted and deflected Cruz
  24. [07:52:20] <RAS|> He played the Jude methodology for "discussion and debate"
  25. [07:52:29] <chalcedny`> heh
  26. [07:52:34] <chalcedny`> (((((((( RAS| ))))))))))
  27. [07:55:03] <RAS|> I am so disgusted with some DIMS here that are willing to sacrifice our Nation's Constitution on their alter of partisianship that I am debating removing some ops and banning some people
  28. [07:55:26] <RAS|> I have never been so disgusted by the shit stains that some people have become
  29. [07:55:44] <RAS|> as it relates to this channel
  30. [07:57:48] <chalcedny`> i'm sorry to hear that RAS|
  31. [07:57:56] <chalcedny`> i haven't been on during the day much
  32. [07:58:17] <chalcedny`> and at the moment my other (main) connection is down
  33. [07:58:51] * Thad has quit (Ping timeout)
  34. [08:00:16] <RAS|> I left the channel yesterday because I am so disgusted that I was about to act precipitously
  35. [08:00:29] <chalcedny`> i see :(
  36. [08:00:36] <RAS|> When the right side starts using these same methods and weapons against the left - Our nation is doomed
  37. [08:00:41] <chalcedny`> hatred for our president seems rampant
  38. [08:00:44] * Rusteaux (~rusteaux@Rusteaux.users.undernet.org) has joined #politics
  39. [08:00:44] * X gives channel operator status to Rusteaux
  40. [08:00:44] * chalcedny` gives voice to Rusteaux
  41. [08:00:58] <RAS|> and that is coming as the left moves farther and farther away from supporting this great nation
  42. [08:01:09] <chalcedny`> ·´❤`· Rusteaux ·´❤`·
  43. [08:01:27] <RAS|> They have embraced violence as "acceptable political speech" as long as it is committed or advocated by the left
  44. [08:01:53] <chalcedny`> hmm?
  45. [08:01:56] <RAS|> They have embraced ignoring Constitutional Rights and Freedoms for Partisian Political Purposes
  46. [08:02:06] <chalcedny`> ah
  47. [08:02:07] <chalcedny`> yes
  48. [08:02:24] * Sni (~snide@67.7.104.0) has joined #politics
  49. [08:02:24] * chalcedny` gives voice to Sni
  50. [08:02:33] <RAS|> They have embraced weaponizing the DOJ, IRS, CIA, and FBI as political tools against their opponents
  51. [08:02:55] <chalcedny`> it's certainly being done
  52. [08:02:56] <RAS|> These things (IMO) cross the line of treason
  53. [08:03:34] <chalcedny`> they do
  54. [08:03:40] <RAS|> Many of the DIMS and Leftists that frequent here support or condone (thereby tacitly support) these actions
  55. [08:04:00] <chalcedny`> they scoff at our concerns
  56. [08:04:06] <RAS|> and I do not care to associate with people that hate America and our national Principles
  57. [08:04:28] <RAS|> Therefore I am seriously considering purging pukes such as that
  58. [08:04:48] <RAS|> shitting them out of channel just like I rid myself of infection laden diaherrea
  59. [08:05:00] <chalcedny`> mmm
  60. [08:05:06] <chalcedny`> depends on our goal
  61. [08:05:20] <chalcedny`> do we want to be fair and balanced or talk about the truth?
  62. [08:05:48] <chalcedny`> the opposition abuses fair and balanced .. 4 th generation warfare takes freedoms to use against us
  63. [08:06:21] * Sni has quit (Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com))
  64. [08:07:08] <chalcedny`> this is true across the board, totalitarians use it
  65. [08:08:13] <RAS|> Exactly and I cannot give platform to people wanting to destroy us
  66. [08:08:35] <RAS|> I am speaking of being "Fair and balanced" - If they use a weapon - It is available for use
  67. [08:09:09] <RAS|> That's fair
  68. [08:09:14] <RAS|> and balanced
  69. [08:09:25] <chalcedny`> we won't stoop that low
  70. [08:09:31] <chalcedny`> we follow rules and policies
  71. [08:09:38] <chalcedny`> they abhor them
  72. [08:09:41] <RAS|> I know - which is why purging them is a better option
  73. [08:10:12] <RAS|> I have spent some time thinking this through and I have yet to come to a final decision but it is approaching
  74. [08:10:32] <chalcedny`> ok
  75. [08:10:45] <chalcedny`> i support you, whatever you feel is right
  76. [08:10:55] <RAS|> Not in the last 15-20 have I ever been so disgusted by some of these people
  77. [08:10:55] <chalcedny`> (wish others were here to discuss it)
  78. [08:11:00] <RAS|> in channel
  79. [08:11:06] <RAS|> They just ignore it
  80. [08:11:20] <RAS|> They sacrifice EVERYTHING for their party
  81. [08:11:30] <chalcedny`> pink hats with ears
  82. [08:11:33] <RAS|> If they will sacrifice this Great Nation what does a chat channel matter
  83. [08:12:11] <chalcedny`> there are a lot of vocal communists
  84. [08:12:16] <RAS|> even though th left supports and condones violence in politics from their side - I do not go out shooting leftists
  85. [08:12:26] <chalcedny`> no
  86. [08:12:42] <chalcedny`> i think if we go conservative they will attack us
  87. [08:12:46] <chalcedny`> and they don't fight fair
  88. [08:13:00] <RAS|> They supported the violence in Charlottesville, At the ballfield, at at many other venues
  89. [08:13:10] <chalcedny`> yes, they have
  90. [08:13:20] <RAS|> well that's just it chalcedny` - They have removed "Fair" from the table
  91. [08:13:33] <RAS|> and if fair is not a principle - Why adhere to it
  92. [08:13:56] <RAS|> if they want to have a fight with weapons - let me bring Mine
  93. [08:14:30] <chalcedny`> i rather thought you were protecting free speech by removing those who would limit it
  94. [08:15:18] <chalcedny`> we can't stoop so low
  95. [08:15:32] <RAS|> That's just it - Removing those that support and advocate for the abandonment of Constitutional Protections is reasonable
  96. [08:15:41] <chalcedny`> yes
  97. [08:16:00] <RAS|> and supporting wholesale raids of Lawyers Offices for Political witch hunts does exactly that
  98. [08:16:11] <chalcedny`> i was asked to take an oath to support the Constitution last night - on a different medium.
  99. [08:16:18] <RAS|> Have you EVER seen me advocate for raiding Hillary's lawyers office?
  100. [08:16:24] <chalcedny`> NO
  101. [08:16:31] <RAS|> Have you EVER seen me advocate for raiding Obama;s lawyers office?
  102. [08:16:38] <chalcedny`> lol no.
  103. [08:16:46] * BonafideL has quit (Read error: EOF from client)
  104. [08:17:00] <chalcedny`> we wouldn't break the law that way, nor tap their attorney client privilege discussions.
  105. [08:17:04] <chalcedny`> or their phones
  106. [08:17:20] <chalcedny`> if we believed they were committing crimes we would follow legal process
  107. [08:17:34] <chalcedny`> until all legal process is exhausted
  108. [08:17:50] <chalcedny`> or we are physically attacked with no official defenders
  109. [08:18:42] * RAS| has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
  110. [08:18:59] * X sets channel limit to 56
  111. [08:19:20] * RAS| (~RAS@71.156.77.19) has joined #politics
  112. [08:19:20] * chalcedny` gives voice to RAS|
  113. [08:19:20] * X gives channel operator status to RAS|
  114. [08:20:05] * Zanadu has quit (Signed off)
  115. [08:22:16] <chalcedny`> welcome back
  116.  
  117. I don't think this discussion went further, until later.
  118.  
  119.  
  120. Apr 11 13:17:58 <RAS|> if the left continues to push past Constitutionality and defending violent actions as "acceptable political speech" and attacking lawful peaceful protestors - Eventually the right may well take on those same weapons and tactics that the left is advocating
  121. Apr 11 13:18:43 <RAS|> yes hal they did
  122. Apr 11 13:18:55 <RAS|> Big difference then was those guys actually HAD Priciples
  123. Apr 11 13:18:59 <RAS|> Principles
  124. Apr 11 14:06:46 <RAS|> Hey Folks - I am having an issue that may well affect the entire channel
  125. Apr 11 14:07:21 <RAS|> I would like you all to think about these items and provide me your opinions as I am raidly approaching one or more decision points
  126. Apr 11 14:07:35 <RAS|> Is that possible?
  127. Apr 11 14:07:45 <tzip> RAS|, yer makin' me nervous.
  128. Apr 11 14:07:57 <RAS|> It is making me nervous too tzip
  129. Apr 11 14:08:15 <RAS|> Never have I felt this way
  130. Apr 11 14:08:15 <tzip> lol! RAS|, YOUR room, YOUR policies.
  131. Apr 11 14:08:25 <RAS|> That would kill the channel just as fast as rejecting all right wing views
  132. Apr 11 14:08:57 <RAS|> But there are issues right v left that are going to affect the entire channel
  133. Apr 11 14:09:21 <RAS|> I want a place where we can discuss and debate with one over riding principle
  134. Apr 11 14:09:32 <mary^> RAS|, do you want to explain or discuss the issue? If not, fine.
  135. Apr 11 14:09:38 <RAS|> That we all want a Great nation where we can all live and prosper
  136. Apr 11 14:09:43 <mary^> RAS|, and that principle would be what?
  137. Apr 11 14:10:08 <tzip> RAS|, ok, but yours is the only opinion that counts. You can't have everything, nor can you please everyone. So make it the room that most closely fits to your liking. If anyone else doesn't like it, there are lots of other rooms to go to.
  138. Apr 11 14:10:09 <RAS|> Mary if you want to start this off as an adversarial thing I can devoice you to get there
  139. Apr 11 14:10:36 <RAS|> I am coming hat in hand to talk to you ALL as I believe you want to be here
  140. Apr 11 14:10:47 <mary^> RAS|, I never said that. I simply said that we would be glad to listen to your discussing what your problem is.
  141. Apr 11 14:10:48 <RAS|> otherwise why would you be here?
  142. Apr 11 14:10:55 <RAS|> Ok maybe I read that wrong mary
  143. Apr 11 14:10:59 <RAS|> and if so my apology
  144. Apr 11 14:11:03 <mary^> np, RAS|. happens.
  145. Apr 11 14:11:22 <tzip> RAS|, if it's very complex, maybe a .. ooooooh, one of those pages you put up temporarily on which something is presented and people can post, might be easier?
  146. Apr 11 14:11:22 <RAS|> Ok here is my whine
  147. Apr 11 14:11:25 <RAS|> I am so disgusted with some DIMS here that are willing to sacrifice our Nation's Constitution on their alter of partisianship that I am debating removing some ops and banning some people.
  148. Apr 11 14:11:25 <RAS|> I left the channel the other day because I am so disgusted that I was about to act precipitously.
  149. Apr 11 14:11:25 <RAS|> When the right side starts using these same methods and weapons against the left - Our nation is doomed
  150. Apr 11 14:11:38 <RAS|> and that is coming as the left moves farther and farther away from supporting this great nation.
  151. Apr 11 14:11:38 <RAS|> The left has embraced violence as "acceptable political speech" as long as it is committed or advocated by the left
  152. Apr 11 14:11:38 <RAS|> They have embraced ignoring Constitutional Rights and Freedoms for Partisan Political Purposes
  153. Apr 11 14:11:39 <RAS|> They have embraced weaponizing the DOJ, IRS, CIA, and FBI as political tools against their opponents
  154. Apr 11 14:11:39 <RAS|> Many of the DIMS and Leftists that frequent here support or condone (thereby tacitly support) these actions
  155. Apr 11 14:11:52 <RAS|> and I do not care to associate with people that hate America and our national Principles
  156. Apr 11 14:11:52 <RAS|> Therefore I am seriously considering purging pukes such as that
  157. Apr 11 14:11:52 <RAS|> shitting them out of channel just like I rid myself of infection laden diaherrea
  158. Apr 11 14:12:17 <RAS|> And this of course also involves those on the Right that do not care to debate or discuss or advocate those same things
  159. Apr 11 14:12:29 <RAS|> And this of course also involves those on the Right that do not care to debate or discuss AND advocate those same things
  160. Apr 11 14:12:52 <RAS|> Please read that at least twice before deciding and started to slam me with comments
  161. Apr 11 14:13:18 <RAS|> if you REALLY want my careful consideration of your thoughts - please tell me and I will open a PM so you can make that case
  162. Apr 11 14:13:33 <RAS|> I DO NOT want an Echo Chamber
  163. Apr 11 14:13:41 <RAS|> I will Kill the channel first
  164. Apr 11 14:14:03 <RAS|> If I wanted an echo chamber would I EVER have op'd barathron or Jude?
  165. Apr 11 14:14:38 <RAS|> I have trouble reigning those on the right in when the left is advocating political violence even when it is done by defending or deflecting from it
  166. Apr 11 14:14:41 <mary^> RAS|, I'm going to agree with you. I would agree with you COMPLETELY if you didn't try to lay the majority of the blame on one side. And you're right. We are ALL americans, we ALL want America to succeed. We are ONE country.
  167. Apr 11 14:14:51 <RAS|> HEAR HEAR Mary
  168. Apr 11 14:15:19 <RAS|> But I actually do not believe that That matters to some as they are actually PARTY before EVERYTHING
  169. Apr 11 14:15:23 <RAS|> Right and Left
  170. Apr 11 14:15:46 <tzip> umm.. ok, RAS|, maybe you could give me a heads up when I'm permabanned? That way I'll know not to try to join. That would be the more .. systematic thing to do as opposed to just banning me and let me figure it out by myself.
  171. Apr 11 14:16:12 <RAS|> Tzip you and I have actually been agreeing some of late however there are times that you are definately in the group
  172. Apr 11 14:16:52 <RAS|> Mary when you have people that defend and deflect from things like the baseball field shooting or defend kamala's murder jokes
  173. Apr 11 14:17:02 <RAS|> You have people on the left fomenting violence.
  174. Apr 11 14:17:15 <mary^> Carn, I think RAS| is trying to make the point that neither the left nor the right is anti-american.
  175. Apr 11 14:17:35 <mary^> RAS|, I personally have never heard either of those things.
  176. Apr 11 14:17:45 <tzip> k, that's my only thought, RAS|. Tell Mantra and me when we're banned. That would be considerate, if being considerate to progressives is anything you'd like to be. K, THAT'S ALL FROM THIS PEANUT. :)
  177. Apr 11 14:18:00 <RAS|> Mary - What I am saying is that some here APPEAR to be Anti-American because of their willingness to destory our nation in the pirsuit of partisan political expediency
  178. Apr 11 14:18:20 <RAS|> then you have not been here when those items were discussed mary
  179. Apr 11 14:18:21 <mary^> RAS|, I think there are people on both sides who seem to be that way, don't you?
  180. Apr 11 14:18:28 <RAS|> Yes mary
  181. Apr 11 14:18:37 <RAS|> But of late it has been more on the left here
  182. Apr 11 14:18:43 <mary^> RAS|, and this seems to be the only place it's been mentioned ...at least on IRC.
  183. Apr 11 14:19:03 <RAS|> and it is negatively impacting my ability to act against those on the right that go over the line
  184. Apr 11 14:19:25 <mary^> RAS|, let me ask you a question. Have you EVER heard me, or tzip or barathron or heyJude EVEN once defend or advocate violence?
  185. Apr 11 14:19:26 <RAS|> Mary I would not know about other channels as I only frequent here
  186. Apr 11 14:19:57 <RAS|> Tzip Jude barathon and Jude have all defended or condoned violence by the left at one or more times
  187. Apr 11 14:20:03 <RAS|> etsuvol
  188. Apr 11 14:20:11 <RAS|> So yes
  189. Apr 11 14:20:16 <mary^> RAS|, I get angry with anyone who advocates OR defends violence on either side of the aisle.
  190. Apr 11 14:20:31 <RAS|> mary - you personally have not figured into my angst
  191. Apr 11 14:20:46 <RAS|> You are an abject leftist but so what?
  192. Apr 11 14:20:58 <RAS|> that is not an issue with me
  193. Apr 11 14:21:04 <mary^> so how do you intend to accomplish your goal, RAS|?
  194. Apr 11 14:21:08 <RAS|> I don't know mary
  195. Apr 11 14:21:14 <RAS|> That is why I am talking to people
  196. Apr 11 14:21:26 <RAS|> I considered quitting IRC
  197. Apr 11 14:21:30 <RAS|> and still am
  198. Apr 11 14:21:53 <RAS|> I have considered banning those that I feel are most egregious but I don't like that option any more than quitting
  199. Apr 11 14:22:01 <tzip> ooooooooooooooooh, I protest. I don't think I've EVER defended or condoned violence, RAS|. The worst I get is calling people nincompoops and ratzafratzes and wretched poltroons or something.
  200. Apr 11 14:22:08 <RAS|> I have considered just killing the channel
  201. Apr 11 14:22:16 <HeyJude> Hi RAS|
  202. Apr 11 14:22:20 <RAS|> Hey Jude
  203. Apr 11 14:22:32 <RAS|> Wow someone share my diatribe with Jude in PM
  204. Apr 11 14:22:40 <RAS|> please
  205. Apr 11 14:22:41 <HeyJude> RAS| ?
  206. Apr 11 14:23:07 <RAS|> timing sucked there jude - you should have been here like 4 minutes ago
  207. Apr 11 14:23:15 <HeyJude> RAS| good I hope?
  208. Apr 11 14:23:27 <RAS|> No I am coming to a cross roads about the channel
  209. Apr 11 14:23:53 <RAS|> I am so very conflicted I have considered quitting IRC or effectively killing this channel
  210. Apr 11 14:24:01 <HeyJude> RAS| it canbe difficult as you know
  211. Apr 11 14:24:37 <RAS|> and these thoughts do not accur to me lightly
  212. Apr 11 14:24:38 <tzip> Hard spot to be in, I know, RAS|; when the scales between 2 decisions balance perfectly but you have to make one.
  213. Apr 11 14:24:52 <RAS|> This is not a perfect balance anytime tzip
  214. Apr 11 14:25:00 <RAS|> But there can be principle
  215. Apr 11 14:25:04 <tzip> OR, RAS|, maybe just do what most of us do, sigh, shrug your shoulders, say "that's just irc" and accept it for what it is?
  216. Apr 11 14:25:12 <RAS|> I have done this for 20 years
  217. Apr 11 14:25:32 <tzip> Well then please yourself, RAS|, as I said. And I was going to shut up, wasn't I. rats, I can't ever keep to that when I say I will!
  218. Apr 11 14:25:34 <RAS|> and I see us rushing to irredeemable conflict
  219. Apr 11 14:25:35 <HeyJude> RAS| indeed you have and at one time it was fun to exchange ideas etc.....hard these days
  220. Apr 11 14:25:59 <mary^> RAS|, it's been going on for decades. I have no clue how to undo it.
  221. Apr 11 14:26:12 <RAS|> I find myself losing all respect for people IRC and IRL that I care about
  222. Apr 11 14:26:20 <SlumBummm> You have done a good job RAS|
  223. Apr 11 14:26:33 <RAS|> not to have failed this badly Slum but thanks
  224. Apr 11 14:26:53 <RAS|> NO Jude that apth it to ruination
  225. Apr 11 14:27:00 <RAS|> path
  226. Apr 11 14:27:00 <SlumBummm> RAS| can't control othres.
  227. Apr 11 14:27:01 <imagi> RAS| pick up your PM
  228. Apr 11 14:27:10 <tzip> RAS|, most respectfully, and coming from a well of experience, if you're letting political leanings come between you and your life, maybe it's time to give up the politics instead of the people close to you?
  229. Apr 11 14:27:11 <RAS|> How can anyone improve if they hide from issues with import?
  230. Apr 11 14:27:27 <RAS|> Thanks imagi
  231. Apr 11 14:27:30 <RAS|> it's open
  232. Apr 11 14:27:48 <RAS|> yes millenialjen - I have failed at that as well especially recently
  233. Apr 11 14:28:49 <RAS|> No millenialjen But I always take blame for things that I do (or try to)
  234. Apr 11 14:29:40 <HeyJude> RAS| well one of the tenants is gone from the channel...respect for one another..it is too bad it has disappeared
  235. Apr 11 14:29:49 <RAS|> Jude did anyone share my diatribe with you?
  236. Apr 11 14:30:06 <HeyJude> RAS| not really...just a general theme
  237. Apr 11 14:30:11 <RAS|> Please allow me
  238. Apr 11 14:30:20 <HeyJude> RAS| sure, of course
  239. Apr 11 14:36:20 <RAS|> Those of you that actually like coming here should give those thoughts some consideration and consider how you can be part of the solution even though many of us, including myself with have failures and foibles along the way
  240. Apr 11 14:44:21 <mary^> knox, so the problem will continue indefinitely. I can perfectly understand why RAS| got upset. I feel the same way.
  241. Apr 11 15:08:03 <RAS|> back
  242. Apr 11 15:08:28 <RAS|> So only two people had thoughts important enough to share with me completely?
  243. Apr 11 15:08:42 <RAS|> I do not see PM unless I open it so you have to tell me
  244. Apr 11 15:09:21 <RAS|> if I did not want your input I would not ask
  245. Apr 11 15:09:24 <knox> RAS| : dont end this room, its miles better managed than most
  246. Apr 11 15:09:47 <RAS|> Someone will have to bring you up to speed Zanadu
  247. Apr 11 15:10:00 <RAS|> Would someone assist him?
  248. Apr 11 15:10:03 <RAS|> please
  249. Apr 11 15:10:27 <mary^> RAS|, I think that knox and I were illustrating to everyone quite clearly what the real problem is. We don't have a shared set of FACTS.
  250. Apr 11 15:10:31 <HeyJude> RAS| OK sure..I will paste to him
  251. Apr 11 15:10:35 <RAS|> Thanks
  252. Apr 11 15:10:52 <RAS|> yes But we should be better than society in general
  253. Apr 11 15:11:19 <RAS|> I know that is a lofty goal but the regulars here .....
  254. Apr 11 15:11:24 <mary^> RAS|, and how can we get there? That is the problem.
  255. Apr 11 15:11:26 <knox> RAS| the partisanship is like a football team;s fans. they will cheer if a bad call goes their way and its about winning
  256. Apr 11 15:11:42 <RAS|> That is what I am hoping to figure out from a channel management POV
  257. Apr 11 15:11:46 <RAS|> mary
  258. Apr 11 15:12:06 <RAS|> how do I do better? I can only fix what I do
  259. Apr 11 15:12:08 <mary^> knox, I think that's part of RAS|'s point...that it's become so much about winning that we've lost a concern for our country.
  260. Apr 11 15:12:36 <RAS|> everything else is me trying to guide us to at least a place that is acceptable to participate in
  261. Apr 11 15:13:03 <RAS|> Clinton's impeachment was MUCH different than this special counsel
  262. Apr 11 15:13:26 <RAS|> No one was commiting perjury and violating Woods procedures and raiding Lawyers offices fishing for crimes
  263. Apr 11 15:13:44 <RAS|> So no - I disagree
  264. Apr 11 15:14:12 <mary^> RAS|, you don't "raid" the office of the lawyer of the president of the united states on a whim.
  265. Apr 11 15:14:43 <RAS|> they did so on a fishing expedition for a possible crime involving an issue from 2006
  266. Apr 11 15:15:02 <RAS|> WELL outside the scope of this special counsel
  267. Apr 11 15:15:20 <RAS|> They wanted to go through all his attrny client documentation
  268. Apr 11 15:15:28 <RAS|> and pierce that veil
  269. Apr 11 15:15:54 <mary^> RAS|, if we're speculating we might also say that they were trying to gather evidence before it was destroyed.
  270. Apr 11 15:15:55 <RAS|> Based on Affadavits from a DOJ and special counsel team already shown to exhibit intense bias
  271. Apr 11 15:16:14 <RAS|> A team that has already found to have violated their OWN procedures in swearing out warrants
  272. Apr 11 15:16:28 <mary^> RAS|, so you're saying that our law enforcement is corrupt?
  273. Apr 11 15:16:28 <RAS|> Not speculating - Speaking clearly
  274. Apr 11 15:16:45 <RAS|> This DOJ has already been shown to be corrupt
  275. Apr 11 15:16:49 <RAS|> clearly
  276. Apr 11 15:16:56 <mary^> RAS|, they have???? I must have missed it.
  277. Apr 11 15:16:58 <HeyJude> RAS| then Trump should fire the lot of them
  278. Apr 11 15:17:05 <RAS|> Willful ignorance is not an excuse
  279. Apr 11 15:17:33 <RAS|> Why was McCabe fired? For LYing
  280. Apr 11 15:17:39 <knox> RAS| : even if trump fires rosenstien, he cant stop the NY investigation
  281. Apr 11 15:18:12 <mary^> nice try, RAS|. Your intentions were lofty, anyway.
  282. Apr 11 15:18:32 <RAS|> I believe that if the left continues on the path that it is on - Including the items I mentioned here - One day the right will pick up those same weapons and use them
  283. Apr 11 15:18:46 <RAS|> That will end our Great Experiment as a Representative Republic
  284. Apr 11 15:19:24 <RAS|> BTW - If it comes to that - I bet the right has more weapons and ammo
  285. Apr 11 15:19:42 <RAS|> and that would suck for all that Love this Nation
  286. Apr 11 15:20:01 <RAS|> Exactly Mary
  287. Apr 11 15:20:33 <RAS|> That is where we are - The left has condoned so much beyond the pale that when anyone on the right reciprocates - what do you do? Immediately blame it all on them?
  288. Apr 11 15:20:47 <RAS|> Both Jude
  289. Apr 11 15:20:51 <mary^> RAS|, so much for shared FACTS.
  290. Apr 11 15:21:12 <RAS|> Facts - Facts? Anytime you are provided with Facts - you deflect deny and deceive
  291. Apr 11 15:21:21 <RAS|> you Condone it
  292. Apr 11 15:22:04 <RAS|> tell me Mary - When has ANY right wing office raided a Lawyers office for political purposes? Did anyone raid Bill's lawyers office when he was actual charged with a crime in the House?
  293. Apr 11 15:22:19 <RAS|> Did anyone ever have Obama's lawyers office raided?
  294. Apr 11 15:22:26 <RAS|> Please tell me
  295. Apr 11 15:22:30 <mary^> RAS|, was there a warrant issued?
  296. Apr 11 15:22:51 <RAS|> Did Hillary's lawyers get raided when she was found to have used an email server to illegally transmit Secret info?
  297. Apr 11 15:23:02 <RAS|> ahhh Deflection - Nice
  298. Apr 11 15:23:03 <HeyJude> RAS| I am going to say something..and please remain CALM...I cannot take the name calling...and the POTUS names calls and that empowers all sorts of people to name call and think it is OK....I think it contributes to the all the commotion of the right blaming the left and the left blaming the right. In addition, we have lost statesmanship in how we deal with one another...and I mean that
  299. Apr 11 15:23:06 <RAS|> and expected
  300. Apr 11 15:23:12 <RAS|> No answer - just deflection
  301. Apr 11 15:23:21 <mary^> RAS|, I ask once again...was there a warrant issued for the FBI to go into those offices and gather evidence?
  302. Apr 11 15:23:27 <RAS|> I AM NOT POTUS Jude
  303. Apr 11 15:23:34 <RAS|> Deflect some more to avoid the ? mary
  304. Apr 11 15:23:47 <mary^> RAS|, what HeyJude just said.
  305. Apr 11 15:24:00 <HeyJude> RAS| never said you were..but I think the namecalling is a factor in some of the negative issues including the channel..just throwing it out
  306. Apr 11 15:24:00 <RAS|> That is part of what I referred to in my diatribe mary^
  307. Apr 11 15:24:10 <RAS|> Yes Jude - More deflection
  308. Apr 11 15:24:12 <mary^> RAS|, I'm not deflecting or avoiding anything RAS|. I'm asking to you deny or confirm a fact. Was there a warrant issued?
  309. Apr 11 15:24:12 <mary^> RAS|, I'm not deflecting or avoiding anything RAS|. I'm asking to you deny or confirm a fact. Was there a warrant issued?
  310. Apr 11 15:24:29 <HeyJude> RAS| huh? I was not deflecting just typing
  311. Apr 11 15:24:32 <RAS|> Mary - you avoid my question by asking a question thereby deflecting from answering
  312. Apr 11 15:25:03 <RAS|> you were deflecting by going off on a tangent Jude by bringing up Trump and twitter rather than discussing what we were discussing in channel
  313. Apr 11 15:25:18 <RAS|> THIS IS EXACTLY THE KIND OF SHITV THAT HAS ME READY TO KILL THIS PLACE OFF
  314. Apr 11 15:25:21 <HeyJude> RAS| no no..I thought i was in the theme of the negative issues
  315. Apr 11 15:25:22 <mary^> RAS|, it's not a valid question. Did anyone every get a warrant to raid the offices of Hillary Clinton or Barack Obama? If not, then you can't make a comparison to a case where apparently there WAS a warrant issued.
  316. Apr 11 15:25:50 <RAS|> NO fucking standing up for what is RIGHT and CORRECT just partisan Bullshit deflection and attempts to deceive
  317. Apr 11 15:26:14 <RAS|> When the right picks up these same weapons - you leftists will be cruing
  318. Apr 11 15:26:17 <RAS|> Crying
  319. Apr 11 15:26:20 <RAS|> as will I
  320. Apr 11 15:26:41 <RAS|> BUT Don't worry - you obvioualy won't care
  321. Apr 11 15:26:51 <RAS|> You will be all snuggly with your partisanship
  322. Apr 11 15:28:24 <HeyJude> RAS| what I know is what I read, hear on the news etc....I have no real idea what went down with Mr Cohen, the FBI, So District of NY DA etc...
  323. Apr 11 15:32:29 <RAS|> Well I did just get some good news
  324. Apr 11 15:32:38 <RAS|> Makes me feel a bit better
  325. Apr 11 15:32:52 <lysander> RAS|, what news?
  326. Apr 11 15:32:57 <RAS|> a 4500$ raise and a Great review
  327. Apr 11 15:33:32 <knox> congrats RAS|
  328. Apr 11 15:33:32 <RAS|> well 4800 and change
  329. Apr 11 15:33:36 <knox> drinks are on RAS|
  330. Apr 11 15:33:39 <mary^> that is good news indeed, RAS|.
  331. Apr 11 15:33:42 <RAS|> + 401k bump and bonus bump
  332. Apr 11 15:33:57 <RAS|> Now I want my promotion
  333. Apr 11 15:34:10 <RAS|> and I made that clear in my review
  334. Apr 11 15:34:27 <knox> jeez RAS| is a corporate stud
  335. Apr 11 15:35:13 <RAS|> Now if I could just reconcile my angst about channel the day would be great
  336. Apr 11 15:40:41 <RAS|> worse - just stabbing you in the back
  337. Apr 11 15:40:53 <RAS|> while they complain about your driving
  338. Apr 11 15:46:56 <RAS|> I just want to know what happened to the whole idea of a "loyal opposition" - The DIMS have just created the :Disloyal Resistance"
  339. Apr 11 15:47:09 <RAS|> They even call themselves the resistance
  340. Apr 11 15:47:27 <RAS|> It's frankly despicable
  341. Apr 11 15:47:55 <RAS|> They start off by calling everyone that doesn't suck at their teat "Deplorables"
  342. Apr 11 15:48:15 <RAS|> They condone, support and defend political violence
  343. Apr 11 15:48:39 <RAS|> and demand that others be tolerant of their intolerance
  344. Apr 11 15:48:56 <RAS|> I am reaching my limit of tolerance
  345. Apr 11 15:49:57 <Carn> RAS|: this channel is the "land of the deplorables" btw
  346. Apr 11 19:50:47 * RAS| has quit (Ping timeout)
  347. Apr 11 22:09:34 * RAS| (~RAS@71-156-77-19.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net) has joined #politics
  348. Apr 11 22:09:36 * X gives channel operator status to RAS|
  349. Apr 11 22:10:34 * DuckDodgers gives voice to RAS|
  350. Apr 11 22:13:39 <RatBastard> Yo RAS|.
  351. Apr 11 22:27:36 * RAS| has quit (Ping timeout)
  352.  
  353. RAW Paste Data
  354. This part of the log is from my second client, while my main client was down.
  355. I think RAS| covered most of the issues in this first conversation, but the lower log covers it and has some feedback.
  356.  
  357. [07:50:45] * Rogg (~EXX@EYErc.users.undernet.org) has joined #politics
  358. [07:50:45] * chalcedny` gives voice to Rogg
  359. [07:50:45] * X sets ban on *!*@EYErc.users.undernet.org
  360. [07:50:45] * X has kicked Rogg from #politics ((duckdodgers) You give dirty politics a bad name.)
  361. [07:51:57] <Thad> Looking at today’s new this country is about to blow up. We hate each other
  362. [07:52:03] <RAS|> Zuckerburg just sat and diverted and deflected Cruz
  363. [07:52:20] <RAS|> He played the Jude methodology for "discussion and debate"
  364. [07:52:29] <chalcedny`> heh
  365. [07:52:34] <chalcedny`> (((((((( RAS| ))))))))))
  366. [07:55:03] <RAS|> I am so disgusted with some DIMS here that are willing to sacrifice our Nation's Constitution on their alter of partisianship that I am debating removing some ops and banning some people
  367. [07:55:26] <RAS|> I have never been so disgusted by the shit stains that some people have become
  368. [07:55:44] <RAS|> as it relates to this channel
  369. [07:57:48] <chalcedny`> i'm sorry to hear that RAS|
  370. [07:57:56] <chalcedny`> i haven't been on during the day much
  371. [07:58:17] <chalcedny`> and at the moment my other (main) connection is down
  372. [07:58:51] * Thad has quit (Ping timeout)
  373. [08:00:16] <RAS|> I left the channel yesterday because I am so disgusted that I was about to act precipitously
  374. [08:00:29] <chalcedny`> i see :(
  375. [08:00:36] <RAS|> When the right side starts using these same methods and weapons against the left - Our nation is doomed
  376. [08:00:41] <chalcedny`> hatred for our president seems rampant
  377. [08:00:44] * Rusteaux (~rusteaux@Rusteaux.users.undernet.org) has joined #politics
  378. [08:00:44] * X gives channel operator status to Rusteaux
  379. [08:00:44] * chalcedny` gives voice to Rusteaux
  380. [08:00:58] <RAS|> and that is coming as the left moves farther and farther away from supporting this great nation
  381. [08:01:09] <chalcedny`> ·´❤`· Rusteaux ·´❤`·
  382. [08:01:27] <RAS|> They have embraced violence as "acceptable political speech" as long as it is committed or advocated by the left
  383. [08:01:53] <chalcedny`> hmm?
  384. [08:01:56] <RAS|> They have embraced ignoring Constitutional Rights and Freedoms for Partisian Political Purposes
  385. [08:02:06] <chalcedny`> ah
  386. [08:02:07] <chalcedny`> yes
  387. [08:02:24] * Sni (~snide@67.7.104.0) has joined #politics
  388. [08:02:24] * chalcedny` gives voice to Sni
  389. [08:02:33] <RAS|> They have embraced weaponizing the DOJ, IRS, CIA, and FBI as political tools against their opponents
  390. [08:02:55] <chalcedny`> it's certainly being done
  391. [08:02:56] <RAS|> These things (IMO) cross the line of treason
  392. [08:03:34] <chalcedny`> they do
  393. [08:03:40] <RAS|> Many of the DIMS and Leftists that frequent here support or condone (thereby tacitly support) these actions
  394. [08:04:00] <chalcedny`> they scoff at our concerns
  395. [08:04:06] <RAS|> and I do not care to associate with people that hate America and our national Principles
  396. [08:04:28] <RAS|> Therefore I am seriously considering purging pukes such as that
  397. [08:04:48] <RAS|> shitting them out of channel just like I rid myself of infection laden diaherrea
  398. [08:05:00] <chalcedny`> mmm
  399. [08:05:06] <chalcedny`> depends on our goal
  400. [08:05:20] <chalcedny`> do we want to be fair and balanced or talk about the truth?
  401. [08:05:48] <chalcedny`> the opposition abuses fair and balanced .. 4 th generation warfare takes freedoms to use against us
  402. [08:06:21] * Sni has quit (Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com))
  403. [08:07:08] <chalcedny`> this is true across the board, totalitarians use it
  404. [08:08:13] <RAS|> Exactly and I cannot give platform to people wanting to destroy us
  405. [08:08:35] <RAS|> I am speaking of being "Fair and balanced" - If they use a weapon - It is available for use
  406. [08:09:09] <RAS|> That's fair
  407. [08:09:14] <RAS|> and balanced
  408. [08:09:25] <chalcedny`> we won't stoop that low
  409. [08:09:31] <chalcedny`> we follow rules and policies
  410. [08:09:38] <chalcedny`> they abhor them
  411. [08:09:41] <RAS|> I know - which is why purging them is a better option
  412. [08:10:12] <RAS|> I have spent some time thinking this through and I have yet to come to a final decision but it is approaching
  413. [08:10:32] <chalcedny`> ok
  414. [08:10:45] <chalcedny`> i support you, whatever you feel is right
  415. [08:10:55] <RAS|> Not in the last 15-20 have I ever been so disgusted by some of these people
  416. [08:10:55] <chalcedny`> (wish others were here to discuss it)
  417. [08:11:00] <RAS|> in channel
  418. [08:11:06] <RAS|> They just ignore it
  419. [08:11:20] <RAS|> They sacrifice EVERYTHING for their party
  420. [08:11:30] <chalcedny`> pink hats with ears
  421. [08:11:33] <RAS|> If they will sacrifice this Great Nation what does a chat channel matter
  422. [08:12:11] <chalcedny`> there are a lot of vocal communists
  423. [08:12:16] <RAS|> even though th left supports and condones violence in politics from their side - I do not go out shooting leftists
  424. [08:12:26] <chalcedny`> no
  425. [08:12:42] <chalcedny`> i think if we go conservative they will attack us
  426. [08:12:46] <chalcedny`> and they don't fight fair
  427. [08:13:00] <RAS|> They supported the violence in Charlottesville, At the ballfield, at at many other venues
  428. [08:13:10] <chalcedny`> yes, they have
  429. [08:13:20] <RAS|> well that's just it chalcedny` - They have removed "Fair" from the table
  430. [08:13:33] <RAS|> and if fair is not a principle - Why adhere to it
  431. [08:13:56] <RAS|> if they want to have a fight with weapons - let me bring Mine
  432. [08:14:30] <chalcedny`> i rather thought you were protecting free speech by removing those who would limit it
  433. [08:15:18] <chalcedny`> we can't stoop so low
  434. [08:15:32] <RAS|> That's just it - Removing those that support and advocate for the abandonment of Constitutional Protections is reasonable
  435. [08:15:41] <chalcedny`> yes
  436. [08:16:00] <RAS|> and supporting wholesale raids of Lawyers Offices for Political witch hunts does exactly that
  437. [08:16:11] <chalcedny`> i was asked to take an oath to support the Constitution last night - on a different medium.
  438. [08:16:18] <RAS|> Have you EVER seen me advocate for raiding Hillary's lawyers office?
  439. [08:16:24] <chalcedny`> NO
  440. [08:16:31] <RAS|> Have you EVER seen me advocate for raiding Obama;s lawyers office?
  441. [08:16:38] <chalcedny`> lol no.
  442. [08:16:46] * BonafideL has quit (Read error: EOF from client)
  443. [08:17:00] <chalcedny`> we wouldn't break the law that way, nor tap their attorney client privilege discussions.
  444. [08:17:04] <chalcedny`> or their phones
  445. [08:17:20] <chalcedny`> if we believed they were committing crimes we would follow legal process
  446. [08:17:34] <chalcedny`> until all legal process is exhausted
  447. [08:17:50] <chalcedny`> or we are physically attacked with no official defenders
  448. [08:18:42] * RAS| has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
  449. [08:18:59] * X sets channel limit to 56
  450. [08:19:20] * RAS| (~RAS@71.156.77.19) has joined #politics
  451. [08:19:20] * chalcedny` gives voice to RAS|
  452. [08:19:20] * X gives channel operator status to RAS|
  453. [08:20:05] * Zanadu has quit (Signed off)
  454. [08:22:16] <chalcedny`> welcome back
  455.  
  456. I don't think this discussion went further, until later.
  457.  
  458.  
  459. Apr 11 13:17:58 <RAS|> if the left continues to push past Constitutionality and defending violent actions as "acceptable political speech" and attacking lawful peaceful protestors - Eventually the right may well take on those same weapons and tactics that the left is advocating
  460. Apr 11 13:18:43 <RAS|> yes hal they did
  461. Apr 11 13:18:55 <RAS|> Big difference then was those guys actually HAD Priciples
  462. Apr 11 13:18:59 <RAS|> Principles
  463. Apr 11 14:06:46 <RAS|> Hey Folks - I am having an issue that may well affect the entire channel
  464. Apr 11 14:07:21 <RAS|> I would like you all to think about these items and provide me your opinions as I am raidly approaching one or more decision points
  465. Apr 11 14:07:35 <RAS|> Is that possible?
  466. Apr 11 14:07:45 <tzip> RAS|, yer makin' me nervous.
  467. Apr 11 14:07:57 <RAS|> It is making me nervous too tzip
  468. Apr 11 14:08:15 <RAS|> Never have I felt this way
  469. Apr 11 14:08:15 <tzip> lol! RAS|, YOUR room, YOUR policies.
  470. Apr 11 14:08:25 <RAS|> That would kill the channel just as fast as rejecting all right wing views
  471. Apr 11 14:08:57 <RAS|> But there are issues right v left that are going to affect the entire channel
  472. Apr 11 14:09:21 <RAS|> I want a place where we can discuss and debate with one over riding principle
  473. Apr 11 14:09:32 <mary^> RAS|, do you want to explain or discuss the issue? If not, fine.
  474. Apr 11 14:09:38 <RAS|> That we all want a Great nation where we can all live and prosper
  475. Apr 11 14:09:43 <mary^> RAS|, and that principle would be what?
  476. Apr 11 14:10:08 <tzip> RAS|, ok, but yours is the only opinion that counts. You can't have everything, nor can you please everyone. So make it the room that most closely fits to your liking. If anyone else doesn't like it, there are lots of other rooms to go to.
  477. Apr 11 14:10:09 <RAS|> Mary if you want to start this off as an adversarial thing I can devoice you to get there
  478. Apr 11 14:10:36 <RAS|> I am coming hat in hand to talk to you ALL as I believe you want to be here
  479. Apr 11 14:10:47 <mary^> RAS|, I never said that. I simply said that we would be glad to listen to your discussing what your problem is.
  480. Apr 11 14:10:48 <RAS|> otherwise why would you be here?
  481. Apr 11 14:10:55 <RAS|> Ok maybe I read that wrong mary
  482. Apr 11 14:10:59 <RAS|> and if so my apology
  483. Apr 11 14:11:03 <mary^> np, RAS|. happens.
  484. Apr 11 14:11:22 <tzip> RAS|, if it's very complex, maybe a .. ooooooh, one of those pages you put up temporarily on which something is presented and people can post, might be easier?
  485. Apr 11 14:11:22 <RAS|> Ok here is my whine
  486. Apr 11 14:11:25 <RAS|> I am so disgusted with some DIMS here that are willing to sacrifice our Nation's Constitution on their alter of partisianship that I am debating removing some ops and banning some people.
  487. Apr 11 14:11:25 <RAS|> I left the channel the other day because I am so disgusted that I was about to act precipitously.
  488. Apr 11 14:11:25 <RAS|> When the right side starts using these same methods and weapons against the left - Our nation is doomed
  489. Apr 11 14:11:38 <RAS|> and that is coming as the left moves farther and farther away from supporting this great nation.
  490. Apr 11 14:11:38 <RAS|> The left has embraced violence as "acceptable political speech" as long as it is committed or advocated by the left
  491. Apr 11 14:11:38 <RAS|> They have embraced ignoring Constitutional Rights and Freedoms for Partisan Political Purposes
  492. Apr 11 14:11:39 <RAS|> They have embraced weaponizing the DOJ, IRS, CIA, and FBI as political tools against their opponents
  493. Apr 11 14:11:39 <RAS|> Many of the DIMS and Leftists that frequent here support or condone (thereby tacitly support) these actions
  494. Apr 11 14:11:52 <RAS|> and I do not care to associate with people that hate America and our national Principles
  495. Apr 11 14:11:52 <RAS|> Therefore I am seriously considering purging pukes such as that
  496. Apr 11 14:11:52 <RAS|> shitting them out of channel just like I rid myself of infection laden diaherrea
  497. Apr 11 14:12:17 <RAS|> And this of course also involves those on the Right that do not care to debate or discuss or advocate those same things
  498. Apr 11 14:12:29 <RAS|> And this of course also involves those on the Right that do not care to debate or discuss AND advocate those same things
  499. Apr 11 14:12:52 <RAS|> Please read that at least twice before deciding and started to slam me with comments
  500. Apr 11 14:13:18 <RAS|> if you REALLY want my careful consideration of your thoughts - please tell me and I will open a PM so you can make that case
  501. Apr 11 14:13:33 <RAS|> I DO NOT want an Echo Chamber
  502. Apr 11 14:13:41 <RAS|> I will Kill the channel first
  503. Apr 11 14:14:03 <RAS|> If I wanted an echo chamber would I EVER have op'd barathron or Jude?
  504. Apr 11 14:14:38 <RAS|> I have trouble reigning those on the right in when the left is advocating political violence even when it is done by defending or deflecting from it
  505. Apr 11 14:14:41 <mary^> RAS|, I'm going to agree with you. I would agree with you COMPLETELY if you didn't try to lay the majority of the blame on one side. And you're right. We are ALL americans, we ALL want America to succeed. We are ONE country.
  506. Apr 11 14:14:51 <RAS|> HEAR HEAR Mary
  507. Apr 11 14:15:19 <RAS|> But I actually do not believe that That matters to some as they are actually PARTY before EVERYTHING
  508. Apr 11 14:15:23 <RAS|> Right and Left
  509. Apr 11 14:15:46 <tzip> umm.. ok, RAS|, maybe you could give me a heads up when I'm permabanned? That way I'll know not to try to join. That would be the more .. systematic thing to do as opposed to just banning me and let me figure it out by myself.
  510. Apr 11 14:16:12 <RAS|> Tzip you and I have actually been agreeing some of late however there are times that you are definately in the group
  511. Apr 11 14:16:52 <RAS|> Mary when you have people that defend and deflect from things like the baseball field shooting or defend kamala's murder jokes
  512. Apr 11 14:17:02 <RAS|> You have people on the left fomenting violence.
  513. Apr 11 14:17:15 <mary^> Carn, I think RAS| is trying to make the point that neither the left nor the right is anti-american.
  514. Apr 11 14:17:35 <mary^> RAS|, I personally have never heard either of those things.
  515. Apr 11 14:17:45 <tzip> k, that's my only thought, RAS|. Tell Mantra and me when we're banned. That would be considerate, if being considerate to progressives is anything you'd like to be. K, THAT'S ALL FROM THIS PEANUT. :)
  516. Apr 11 14:18:00 <RAS|> Mary - What I am saying is that some here APPEAR to be Anti-American because of their willingness to destory our nation in the pirsuit of partisan political expediency
  517. Apr 11 14:18:20 <RAS|> then you have not been here when those items were discussed mary
  518. Apr 11 14:18:21 <mary^> RAS|, I think there are people on both sides who seem to be that way, don't you?
  519. Apr 11 14:18:28 <RAS|> Yes mary
  520. Apr 11 14:18:37 <RAS|> But of late it has been more on the left here
  521. Apr 11 14:18:43 <mary^> RAS|, and this seems to be the only place it's been mentioned ...at least on IRC.
  522. Apr 11 14:19:03 <RAS|> and it is negatively impacting my ability to act against those on the right that go over the line
  523. Apr 11 14:19:25 <mary^> RAS|, let me ask you a question. Have you EVER heard me, or tzip or barathron or heyJude EVEN once defend or advocate violence?
  524. Apr 11 14:19:26 <RAS|> Mary I would not know about other channels as I only frequent here
  525. Apr 11 14:19:57 <RAS|> Tzip Jude barathon and Jude have all defended or condoned violence by the left at one or more times
  526. Apr 11 14:20:03 <RAS|> etsuvol
  527. Apr 11 14:20:11 <RAS|> So yes
  528. Apr 11 14:20:16 <mary^> RAS|, I get angry with anyone who advocates OR defends violence on either side of the aisle.
  529. Apr 11 14:20:31 <RAS|> mary - you personally have not figured into my angst
  530. Apr 11 14:20:46 <RAS|> You are an abject leftist but so what?
  531. Apr 11 14:20:58 <RAS|> that is not an issue with me
  532. Apr 11 14:21:04 <mary^> so how do you intend to accomplish your goal, RAS|?
  533. Apr 11 14:21:08 <RAS|> I don't know mary
  534. Apr 11 14:21:14 <RAS|> That is why I am talking to people
  535. Apr 11 14:21:26 <RAS|> I considered quitting IRC
  536. Apr 11 14:21:30 <RAS|> and still am
  537. Apr 11 14:21:53 <RAS|> I have considered banning those that I feel are most egregious but I don't like that option any more than quitting
  538. Apr 11 14:22:01 <tzip> ooooooooooooooooh, I protest. I don't think I've EVER defended or condoned violence, RAS|. The worst I get is calling people nincompoops and ratzafratzes and wretched poltroons or something.
  539. Apr 11 14:22:08 <RAS|> I have considered just killing the channel
  540. Apr 11 14:22:16 <HeyJude> Hi RAS|
  541. Apr 11 14:22:20 <RAS|> Hey Jude
  542. Apr 11 14:22:32 <RAS|> Wow someone share my diatribe with Jude in PM
  543. Apr 11 14:22:40 <RAS|> please
  544. Apr 11 14:22:41 <HeyJude> RAS| ?
  545. Apr 11 14:23:07 <RAS|> timing sucked there jude - you should have been here like 4 minutes ago
  546. Apr 11 14:23:15 <HeyJude> RAS| good I hope?
  547. Apr 11 14:23:27 <RAS|> No I am coming to a cross roads about the channel
  548. Apr 11 14:23:53 <RAS|> I am so very conflicted I have considered quitting IRC or effectively killing this channel
  549. Apr 11 14:24:01 <HeyJude> RAS| it canbe difficult as you know
  550. Apr 11 14:24:37 <RAS|> and these thoughts do not accur to me lightly
  551. Apr 11 14:24:38 <tzip> Hard spot to be in, I know, RAS|; when the scales between 2 decisions balance perfectly but you have to make one.
  552. Apr 11 14:24:52 <RAS|> This is not a perfect balance anytime tzip
  553. Apr 11 14:25:00 <RAS|> But there can be principle
  554. Apr 11 14:25:04 <tzip> OR, RAS|, maybe just do what most of us do, sigh, shrug your shoulders, say "that's just irc" and accept it for what it is?
  555. Apr 11 14:25:12 <RAS|> I have done this for 20 years
  556. Apr 11 14:25:32 <tzip> Well then please yourself, RAS|, as I said. And I was going to shut up, wasn't I. rats, I can't ever keep to that when I say I will!
  557. Apr 11 14:25:34 <RAS|> and I see us rushing to irredeemable conflict
  558. Apr 11 14:25:35 <HeyJude> RAS| indeed you have and at one time it was fun to exchange ideas etc.....hard these days
  559. Apr 11 14:25:59 <mary^> RAS|, it's been going on for decades. I have no clue how to undo it.
  560. Apr 11 14:26:12 <RAS|> I find myself losing all respect for people IRC and IRL that I care about
  561. Apr 11 14:26:20 <SlumBummm> You have done a good job RAS|
  562. Apr 11 14:26:33 <RAS|> not to have failed this badly Slum but thanks
  563. Apr 11 14:26:53 <RAS|> NO Jude that apth it to ruination
  564. Apr 11 14:27:00 <RAS|> path
  565. Apr 11 14:27:00 <SlumBummm> RAS| can't control othres.
  566. Apr 11 14:27:01 <imagi> RAS| pick up your PM
  567. Apr 11 14:27:10 <tzip> RAS|, most respectfully, and coming from a well of experience, if you're letting political leanings come between you and your life, maybe it's time to give up the politics instead of the people close to you?
  568. Apr 11 14:27:11 <RAS|> How can anyone improve if they hide from issues with import?
  569. Apr 11 14:27:27 <RAS|> Thanks imagi
  570. Apr 11 14:27:30 <RAS|> it's open
  571. Apr 11 14:27:48 <RAS|> yes millenialjen - I have failed at that as well especially recently
  572. Apr 11 14:28:49 <RAS|> No millenialjen But I always take blame for things that I do (or try to)
  573. Apr 11 14:29:40 <HeyJude> RAS| well one of the tenants is gone from the channel...respect for one another..it is too bad it has disappeared
  574. Apr 11 14:29:49 <RAS|> Jude did anyone share my diatribe with you?
  575. Apr 11 14:30:06 <HeyJude> RAS| not really...just a general theme
  576. Apr 11 14:30:11 <RAS|> Please allow me
  577. Apr 11 14:30:20 <HeyJude> RAS| sure, of course
  578. Apr 11 14:36:20 <RAS|> Those of you that actually like coming here should give those thoughts some consideration and consider how you can be part of the solution even though many of us, including myself with have failures and foibles along the way
  579. Apr 11 14:44:21 <mary^> knox, so the problem will continue indefinitely. I can perfectly understand why RAS| got upset. I feel the same way.
  580. Apr 11 15:08:03 <RAS|> back
  581. Apr 11 15:08:28 <RAS|> So only two people had thoughts important enough to share with me completely?
  582. Apr 11 15:08:42 <RAS|> I do not see PM unless I open it so you have to tell me
  583. Apr 11 15:09:21 <RAS|> if I did not want your input I would not ask
  584. Apr 11 15:09:24 <knox> RAS| : dont end this room, its miles better managed than most
  585. Apr 11 15:09:47 <RAS|> Someone will have to bring you up to speed Zanadu
  586. Apr 11 15:10:00 <RAS|> Would someone assist him?
  587. Apr 11 15:10:03 <RAS|> please
  588. Apr 11 15:10:27 <mary^> RAS|, I think that knox and I were illustrating to everyone quite clearly what the real problem is. We don't have a shared set of FACTS.
  589. Apr 11 15:10:31 <HeyJude> RAS| OK sure..I will paste to him
  590. Apr 11 15:10:35 <RAS|> Thanks
  591. Apr 11 15:10:52 <RAS|> yes But we should be better than society in general
  592. Apr 11 15:11:19 <RAS|> I know that is a lofty goal but the regulars here .....
  593. Apr 11 15:11:24 <mary^> RAS|, and how can we get there? That is the problem.
  594. Apr 11 15:11:26 <knox> RAS| the partisanship is like a football team;s fans. they will cheer if a bad call goes their way and its about winning
  595. Apr 11 15:11:42 <RAS|> That is what I am hoping to figure out from a channel management POV
  596. Apr 11 15:11:46 <RAS|> mary
  597. Apr 11 15:12:06 <RAS|> how do I do better? I can only fix what I do
  598. Apr 11 15:12:08 <mary^> knox, I think that's part of RAS|'s point...that it's become so much about winning that we've lost a concern for our country.
  599. Apr 11 15:12:36 <RAS|> everything else is me trying to guide us to at least a place that is acceptable to participate in
  600. Apr 11 15:13:03 <RAS|> Clinton's impeachment was MUCH different than this special counsel
  601. Apr 11 15:13:26 <RAS|> No one was commiting perjury and violating Woods procedures and raiding Lawyers offices fishing for crimes
  602. Apr 11 15:13:44 <RAS|> So no - I disagree
  603. Apr 11 15:14:12 <mary^> RAS|, you don't "raid" the office of the lawyer of the president of the united states on a whim.
  604. Apr 11 15:14:43 <RAS|> they did so on a fishing expedition for a possible crime involving an issue from 2006
  605. Apr 11 15:15:02 <RAS|> WELL outside the scope of this special counsel
  606. Apr 11 15:15:20 <RAS|> They wanted to go through all his attrny client documentation
  607. Apr 11 15:15:28 <RAS|> and pierce that veil
  608. Apr 11 15:15:54 <mary^> RAS|, if we're speculating we might also say that they were trying to gather evidence before it was destroyed.
  609. Apr 11 15:15:55 <RAS|> Based on Affadavits from a DOJ and special counsel team already shown to exhibit intense bias
  610. Apr 11 15:16:14 <RAS|> A team that has already found to have violated their OWN procedures in swearing out warrants
  611. Apr 11 15:16:28 <mary^> RAS|, so you're saying that our law enforcement is corrupt?
  612. Apr 11 15:16:28 <RAS|> Not speculating - Speaking clearly
  613. Apr 11 15:16:45 <RAS|> This DOJ has already been shown to be corrupt
  614. Apr 11 15:16:49 <RAS|> clearly
  615. Apr 11 15:16:56 <mary^> RAS|, they have???? I must have missed it.
  616. Apr 11 15:16:58 <HeyJude> RAS| then Trump should fire the lot of them
  617. Apr 11 15:17:05 <RAS|> Willful ignorance is not an excuse
  618. Apr 11 15:17:33 <RAS|> Why was McCabe fired? For LYing
  619. Apr 11 15:17:39 <knox> RAS| : even if trump fires rosenstien, he cant stop the NY investigation
  620. Apr 11 15:18:12 <mary^> nice try, RAS|. Your intentions were lofty, anyway.
  621. Apr 11 15:18:32 <RAS|> I believe that if the left continues on the path that it is on - Including the items I mentioned here - One day the right will pick up those same weapons and use them
  622. Apr 11 15:18:46 <RAS|> That will end our Great Experiment as a Representative Republic
  623. Apr 11 15:19:24 <RAS|> BTW - If it comes to that - I bet the right has more weapons and ammo
  624. Apr 11 15:19:42 <RAS|> and that would suck for all that Love this Nation
  625. Apr 11 15:20:01 <RAS|> Exactly Mary
  626. Apr 11 15:20:33 <RAS|> That is where we are - The left has condoned so much beyond the pale that when anyone on the right reciprocates - what do you do? Immediately blame it all on them?
  627. Apr 11 15:20:47 <RAS|> Both Jude
  628. Apr 11 15:20:51 <mary^> RAS|, so much for shared FACTS.
  629. Apr 11 15:21:12 <RAS|> Facts - Facts? Anytime you are provided with Facts - you deflect deny and deceive
  630. Apr 11 15:21:21 <RAS|> you Condone it
  631. Apr 11 15:22:04 <RAS|> tell me Mary - When has ANY right wing office raided a Lawyers office for political purposes? Did anyone raid Bill's lawyers office when he was actual charged with a crime in the House?
  632. Apr 11 15:22:19 <RAS|> Did anyone ever have Obama's lawyers office raided?
  633. Apr 11 15:22:26 <RAS|> Please tell me
  634. Apr 11 15:22:30 <mary^> RAS|, was there a warrant issued?
  635. Apr 11 15:22:51 <RAS|> Did Hillary's lawyers get raided when she was found to have used an email server to illegally transmit Secret info?
  636. Apr 11 15:23:02 <RAS|> ahhh Deflection - Nice
  637. Apr 11 15:23:03 <HeyJude> RAS| I am going to say something..and please remain CALM...I cannot take the name calling...and the POTUS names calls and that empowers all sorts of people to name call and think it is OK....I think it contributes to the all the commotion of the right blaming the left and the left blaming the right. In addition, we have lost statesmanship in how we deal with one another...and I mean that
  638. Apr 11 15:23:06 <RAS|> and expected
  639. Apr 11 15:23:12 <RAS|> No answer - just deflection
  640. Apr 11 15:23:21 <mary^> RAS|, I ask once again...was there a warrant issued for the FBI to go into those offices and gather evidence?
  641. Apr 11 15:23:27 <RAS|> I AM NOT POTUS Jude
  642. Apr 11 15:23:34 <RAS|> Deflect some more to avoid the ? mary
  643. Apr 11 15:23:47 <mary^> RAS|, what HeyJude just said.
  644. Apr 11 15:24:00 <HeyJude> RAS| never said you were..but I think the namecalling is a factor in some of the negative issues including the channel..just throwing it out
  645. Apr 11 15:24:00 <RAS|> That is part of what I referred to in my diatribe mary^
  646. Apr 11 15:24:10 <RAS|> Yes Jude - More deflection
  647. Apr 11 15:24:12 <mary^> RAS|, I'm not deflecting or avoiding anything RAS|. I'm asking to you deny or confirm a fact. Was there a warrant issued?
  648. Apr 11 15:24:12 <mary^> RAS|, I'm not deflecting or avoiding anything RAS|. I'm asking to you deny or confirm a fact. Was there a warrant issued?
  649. Apr 11 15:24:29 <HeyJude> RAS| huh? I was not deflecting just typing
  650. Apr 11 15:24:32 <RAS|> Mary - you avoid my question by asking a question thereby deflecting from answering
  651. Apr 11 15:25:03 <RAS|> you were deflecting by going off on a tangent Jude by bringing up Trump and twitter rather than discussing what we were discussing in channel
  652. Apr 11 15:25:18 <RAS|> THIS IS EXACTLY THE KIND OF SHITV THAT HAS ME READY TO KILL THIS PLACE OFF
  653. Apr 11 15:25:21 <HeyJude> RAS| no no..I thought i was in the theme of the negative issues
  654. Apr 11 15:25:22 <mary^> RAS|, it's not a valid question. Did anyone every get a warrant to raid the offices of Hillary Clinton or Barack Obama? If not, then you can't make a comparison to a case where apparently there WAS a warrant issued.
  655. Apr 11 15:25:50 <RAS|> NO fucking standing up for what is RIGHT and CORRECT just partisan Bullshit deflection and attempts to deceive
  656. Apr 11 15:26:14 <RAS|> When the right picks up these same weapons - you leftists will be cruing
  657. Apr 11 15:26:17 <RAS|> Crying
  658. Apr 11 15:26:20 <RAS|> as will I
  659. Apr 11 15:26:41 <RAS|> BUT Don't worry - you obvioualy won't care
  660. Apr 11 15:26:51 <RAS|> You will be all snuggly with your partisanship
  661. Apr 11 15:28:24 <HeyJude> RAS| what I know is what I read, hear on the news etc....I have no real idea what went down with Mr Cohen, the FBI, So District of NY DA etc...
  662. Apr 11 15:32:29 <RAS|> Well I did just get some good news
  663. Apr 11 15:32:38 <RAS|> Makes me feel a bit better
  664. Apr 11 15:32:52 <lysander> RAS|, what news?
  665. Apr 11 15:32:57 <RAS|> a 4500$ raise and a Great review
  666. Apr 11 15:33:32 <knox> congrats RAS|
  667. Apr 11 15:33:32 <RAS|> well 4800 and change
  668. Apr 11 15:33:36 <knox> drinks are on RAS|
  669. Apr 11 15:33:39 <mary^> that is good news indeed, RAS|.
  670. Apr 11 15:33:42 <RAS|> + 401k bump and bonus bump
  671. Apr 11 15:33:57 <RAS|> Now I want my promotion
  672. Apr 11 15:34:10 <RAS|> and I made that clear in my review
  673. Apr 11 15:34:27 <knox> jeez RAS| is a corporate stud
  674. Apr 11 15:35:13 <RAS|> Now if I could just reconcile my angst about channel the day would be great
  675. Apr 11 15:40:41 <RAS|> worse - just stabbing you in the back
  676. Apr 11 15:40:53 <RAS|> while they complain about your driving
  677. Apr 11 15:46:56 <RAS|> I just want to know what happened to the whole idea of a "loyal opposition" - The DIMS have just created the :Disloyal Resistance"
  678. Apr 11 15:47:09 <RAS|> They even call themselves the resistance
  679. Apr 11 15:47:27 <RAS|> It's frankly despicable
  680. Apr 11 15:47:55 <RAS|> They start off by calling everyone that doesn't suck at their teat "Deplorables"
  681. Apr 11 15:48:15 <RAS|> They condone, support and defend political violence
  682. Apr 11 15:48:39 <RAS|> and demand that others be tolerant of their intolerance
  683. Apr 11 15:48:56 <RAS|> I am reaching my limit of tolerance
  684. Apr 11 15:49:57 <Carn> RAS|: this channel is the "land of the deplorables" btw
  685. Apr 11 19:50:47 * RAS| has quit (Ping timeout)
  686. Apr 11 22:09:34 * RAS| (~RAS@71-156-77-19.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net) has joined #politics
  687. Apr 11 22:09:36 * X gives channel operator status to RAS|
  688. Apr 11 22:10:34 * DuckDodgers gives voice to RAS|
  689. Apr 11 22:13:39 <RatBastard> Yo RAS|.
  690. Apr 11 22:27:36 * RAS| has quit (Ping timeout)
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