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- 1
- 00:00:39,410 --> 00:00:41,350
- It's no longer the era of industry.
- 2
- 00:00:41,450 --> 00:00:43,890
- We're in a technological era,
- fundamentally.
- 3
- 00:00:47,170 --> 00:00:50,190
- The fascists, they have the resources.
- 4
- 00:00:50,290 --> 00:00:52,510
- But we have imagination.
- 5
- 00:00:52,610 --> 00:00:56,170
- We are making the tools
- to take back our sovereignty.
- 6
- 00:00:57,250 --> 00:01:01,150
- When we make a giant "fuck you" to the
- system, it's breaking that stranglehold
- 7
- 00:01:01,250 --> 00:01:04,890
- on the tools of power
- that's used against us.
- 8
- 00:01:05,890 --> 00:01:08,010
- The fascists always use the narrative of,
- 9
- 00:01:08,130 --> 00:01:12,810
- "We are the white knights in shining armor
- protecting against the threats.
- 10
- 00:01:12,930 --> 00:01:17,870
- We come here and we move out
- the dark with pure whiteness."
- 11
- 00:01:17,970 --> 00:01:20,170
- That's a false narrative,
- 12
- 00:01:20,290 --> 00:01:23,910
- because there is corruption
- in those castles.
- 13
- 00:01:24,010 --> 00:01:27,270
- The real base of power lies with us.
- 14
- 00:01:27,370 --> 00:01:29,330
- We are the darkness.
- 15
- 00:02:09,009 --> 00:02:12,329
- A trial, which potentially,
- could have very far-reaching implications
- 16
- 00:02:12,449 --> 00:02:14,689
- has just started in New York City.
- 17
- 00:02:15,849 --> 00:02:19,429
- A jury will decide a case that could
- impact the future of Internet privacy.
- 18
- 00:02:19,529 --> 00:02:24,609
- Thousands of drugs came through
- the black website called "Silk Road."
- 19
- 00:02:24,969 --> 00:02:28,869
- The government overstepped their boundaries
- to acquire the info they claim they have.
- 20
- 00:02:28,969 --> 00:02:30,429
- This is not going away.
- 21
- 00:02:30,529 --> 00:02:35,249
- This is gonna be the biggest takedown
- of what is currently in existence.
- 22
- 00:02:40,049 --> 00:02:42,749
- On January 13, 2015,
- 23
- 00:02:42,849 --> 00:02:46,249
- a criminal trial began
- for the accused leader of the Silk Road,
- 24
- 00:02:46,369 --> 00:02:50,409
- a black market in an area of the Internet
- known as "the deep web."
- 25
- 00:02:52,409 --> 00:02:54,309
- The deep web is vast,
- 26
- 00:02:54,409 --> 00:02:57,149
- thousands of times larger
- than the visible Internet,
- 27
- 00:02:57,249 --> 00:02:59,229
- what's called the "surface web."
- 28
- 00:02:59,329 --> 00:03:01,289
- But the deep web is not a place.
- 29
- 00:03:01,409 --> 00:03:04,869
- It simply accounts for all of
- the unindexed content online...
- 30
- 00:03:04,969 --> 00:03:07,549
- banking data, administrative
- code for governments,
- 31
- 00:03:07,649 --> 00:03:09,549
- corporations and universities.
- 32
- 00:03:09,649 --> 00:03:12,609
- It's like looking under
- the hood of the Internet.
- 33
- 00:03:12,729 --> 00:03:16,269
- Over time, the deep web became
- inhabited by people of all types
- 34
- 00:03:16,369 --> 00:03:19,169
- who wanted to use
- this terrain for privacy.
- 35
- 00:03:19,289 --> 00:03:22,589
- This hidden area of the deep web
- is called the "dark net"
- 36
- 00:03:22,689 --> 00:03:25,769
- and it's accessible
- with a software service called "Tor,"
- 37
- 00:03:25,889 --> 00:03:30,989
- originally developed by the US military
- and now open source and publicly funded.
- 38
- 00:03:31,089 --> 00:03:35,109
- And while law enforcement and the media have
- painted a picture that Tor and the dark net
- 39
- 00:03:35,209 --> 00:03:37,229
- are nefarious tools for criminals,
- 40
- 00:03:37,329 --> 00:03:40,549
- it's important to understand that
- they are largely used for good
- 41
- 00:03:40,649 --> 00:03:45,289
- by government agencies, journalists
- and dissidents around the world.
- 42
- 00:03:51,049 --> 00:03:53,609
- In the summer of 2011,
- 43
- 00:03:53,729 --> 00:03:56,709
- an ad for the Silk Road
- appeared on the dark net.
- 44
- 00:03:56,809 --> 00:04:00,749
- The Silk Road was an underground
- exchange for any type of goods,
- 45
- 00:04:00,849 --> 00:04:03,689
- but mostly it was used for drugs.
- 46
- 00:04:03,809 --> 00:04:06,149
- There have always been
- drug markets online,
- 47
- 00:04:06,249 --> 00:04:10,889
- but none with the scale, sophistication
- and ease of use as the Silk Road.
- 48
- 00:04:11,009 --> 00:04:13,129
- It would not remain underground for long.
- 49
- 00:04:14,089 --> 00:04:17,869
- Hundreds of thousands of users
- use the impossible-to-trace website
- 50
- 00:04:17,969 --> 00:04:22,029
- which sells drugs,
- forged documents and even hit men.
- 51
- 00:04:22,129 --> 00:04:24,029
- It's called the Silk Road.
- 52
- 00:04:24,129 --> 00:04:28,769
- Just look at some of the 13,000 items
- offered through that underground site.
- 53
- 00:04:28,889 --> 00:04:32,229
- Ultra clean cocaine, clean and real LSD,
- 54
- 00:04:32,329 --> 00:04:35,589
- high grade MDMA, also known as "Molly"...
- 55
- 00:04:35,689 --> 00:04:37,609
- all with fast and free shipping.
- 56
- 00:04:37,729 --> 00:04:41,609
- It generated roughly $1.2 billion in sales
- 57
- 00:04:41,729 --> 00:04:46,149
- with nearly 960,000 users,
- both buyers and sellers,
- 58
- 00:04:46,249 --> 00:04:49,308
- in the US and more than a dozen
- other countries worldwide.
- 59
- 00:04:49,408 --> 00:04:52,488
- YouTube videos like this one
- with 15,000 views
- 60
- 00:04:52,608 --> 00:04:57,228
- tell anyone how to download
- an untraceable technology known as Tor
- 61
- 00:04:57,328 --> 00:05:00,608
- that pulls data from thousands
- of computers worldwide
- 62
- 00:05:00,728 --> 00:05:03,308
- to create this wide open marketplace.
- 63
- 00:05:03,408 --> 00:05:08,128
- This hidden Internet is underpinned
- by a virtual currency called "Bitcoin."
- 64
- 00:05:08,248 --> 00:05:10,568
- Bitcoins offer anonymized transactions,
- 65
- 00:05:10,688 --> 00:05:14,368
- which can be almost impossible
- for the police to trace.
- 66
- 00:05:14,488 --> 00:05:18,888
- Heroin, opium, cannabis, ecstasy,
- psychedelics, stimulants...
- 67
- 00:05:20,728 --> 00:05:23,168
- opioids. And here they are.
- 68
- 00:05:23,288 --> 00:05:25,408
- So, oxycodone, all of those.
- 69
- 00:05:25,528 --> 00:05:29,608
- Codeine, black tar heroin.
- You name it, they have it.
- 70
- 00:05:29,728 --> 00:05:33,408
- They're all listed in the light of day.
- It's unbelievable.
- 71
- 00:05:34,008 --> 00:05:37,668
- The Silk Road's success was largely due
- to an innovative combination
- 72
- 00:05:37,768 --> 00:05:39,468
- of Tor and Bitcoin.
- 73
- 00:05:39,568 --> 00:05:44,348
- Bitcoin is a technology that uses
- cryptographic code to create digital currency.
- 74
- 00:05:44,448 --> 00:05:48,228
- The sender transmits their Bitcoin code
- through a ledger called the "block chain"
- 75
- 00:05:48,328 --> 00:05:50,048
- to arrive at the recipient.
- 76
- 00:05:50,168 --> 00:05:52,608
- Bitcoin is not perfectly anonymous.
- 77
- 00:05:52,728 --> 00:05:57,508
- But if used carefully, it facilitates
- online purchases without revealing identity.
- 78
- 00:05:57,608 --> 00:06:00,268
- Bitcoin was an ideal currency
- for the Silk Road,
- 79
- 00:06:00,368 --> 00:06:01,968
- because it allows for anonymity
- 80
- 00:06:02,088 --> 00:06:05,408
- and is outside the control
- of banks and governments.
- 81
- 00:06:11,448 --> 00:06:15,648
- I really became aware of the Silk Road
- when Adrian Chen at Gawker,
- 82
- 00:06:15,768 --> 00:06:17,568
- did his profile.
- 83
- 00:06:19,768 --> 00:06:23,148
- I think in a way, that story, as much as
- it documented the Silk Road,
- 84
- 00:06:23,248 --> 00:06:27,868
- it created the Silk Road, too. I mean...
- it drove so many people to the site.
- 85
- 00:06:27,968 --> 00:06:32,168
- I think it probably was an order of magnitude
- increase in users on the Silk Road.
- 86
- 00:06:32,288 --> 00:06:34,788
- So from that point on,
- I felt like I had missed the story
- 87
- 00:06:34,888 --> 00:06:38,268
- and I wanted the next big story
- on the Silk Road.
- 88
- 00:06:38,368 --> 00:06:42,588
- But I was also just fascinated
- with the community that was...
- 89
- 00:06:42,688 --> 00:06:45,148
- you know, being created there.
- 90
- 00:06:45,248 --> 00:06:48,968
- eBay doesn't have that kind
- of user community.
- 91
- 00:06:49,088 --> 00:06:53,228
- This was like a really tight-knit
- movement of people.
- 92
- 00:06:53,328 --> 00:06:57,028
- It was a fascinating thing
- just to lurk around in.
- 93
- 00:06:57,128 --> 00:07:00,828
- It's a certifiable,
- one-stop shop for illegal drugs
- 94
- 00:07:00,928 --> 00:07:03,588
- that represents the most brazen attempt
- 95
- 00:07:03,688 --> 00:07:06,528
- to peddle drugs online
- that we have ever seen.
- 96
- 00:07:06,648 --> 00:07:09,328
- It's more brazen
- than anything else by light-years.
- 97
- 00:07:09,448 --> 00:07:12,508
- I mean, they had a really big,
- you know, target on their back.
- 98
- 00:07:12,608 --> 00:07:17,548
- And they even had been taunting,
- to some extent, law enforcement
- 99
- 00:07:17,648 --> 00:07:21,348
- and, you know, the powers that be
- by doing this in the open.
- 100
- 00:07:21,448 --> 00:07:24,608
- And that's actually part of what
- this marketplace is all about.
- 101
- 00:07:24,728 --> 00:07:28,708
- It's not so much about selling drugs
- as much as it is to say...
- 102
- 00:07:28,808 --> 00:07:32,648
- to make a political statement
- of sorts, right?
- 103
- 00:07:32,768 --> 00:07:35,627
- "This shouldn't be prohibited.
- We're free to do what we want
- 104
- 00:07:35,727 --> 00:07:37,887
- and we have the technology to do it.
- So there."
- 105
- 00:07:38,567 --> 00:07:41,147
- The news around the Silk Road
- came almost entirely
- 106
- 00:07:41,247 --> 00:07:43,567
- from law enforcement
- and government officials
- 107
- 00:07:43,687 --> 00:07:47,427
- with little insight from those
- who were behind the market itself.
- 108
- 00:07:47,527 --> 00:07:51,067
- So the core architects and vendors
- of the Silk Road were sought out
- 109
- 00:07:51,167 --> 00:07:56,067
- using encryption keys to verify their
- identities and preserving their anonymity.
- 110
- 00:07:56,167 --> 00:07:58,907
- This is the first time
- they have spoken publicly.
- 111
- 00:07:59,007 --> 00:08:03,207
- [The Silk Road forums were a better
- community than I've ever seen in real life.]
- 112
- 00:08:03,327 --> 00:08:07,367
- [There were many threads that had great
- political and philosophical discussions.]
- 113
- 00:08:07,487 --> 00:08:09,427
- [Sure there were illegal things going on,]
- 114
- 00:08:09,527 --> 00:08:13,087
- [but this was a real community
- of like minded people.]
- 115
- 00:08:13,847 --> 00:08:16,367
- The Silk Road didn't appear
- to have a single leader.
- 116
- 00:08:16,647 --> 00:08:19,587
- There were the regular posts
- from the systems administrator,
- 117
- 00:08:19,687 --> 00:08:23,167
- but otherwise the service appeared to be
- primarily community-run.
- 118
- 00:08:23,287 --> 00:08:25,827
- Then on February 5, 2012,
- 119
- 00:08:25,927 --> 00:08:28,267
- after a highly successful
- first year of business,
- 120
- 00:08:28,367 --> 00:08:30,707
- the Silk Road administrator
- made an announcement...
- 121
- 00:08:30,807 --> 00:08:32,987
- [I need an identity
- separate from the site,]
- 122
- 00:08:33,087 --> 00:08:35,527
- [and the enterprise
- of which I am only a part.]
- 123
- 00:08:35,727 --> 00:08:38,667
- [I need a name. Drum roll, please...]
- 124
- 00:08:38,767 --> 00:08:42,007
- [My new name is... Dread Pirate Roberts.]
- 125
- 00:08:42,127 --> 00:08:44,747
- - You're the Dread Pirate Roberts, admit it.
- - With pride.
- 126
- 00:08:44,847 --> 00:08:47,787
- The Dread Pirate Roberts was cribbed
- from the mythical character
- 127
- 00:08:47,887 --> 00:08:52,067
- from the novel and film "The Princess Bride,"
- and the choice was no accident.
- 128
- 00:08:52,167 --> 00:08:55,047
- In the original story by William Goldman,
- the Dread Pirate Roberts
- 129
- 00:08:55,167 --> 00:08:59,547
- was a nom de guerre handed down from
- user to user and passed along eternally.
- 130
- 00:08:59,647 --> 00:09:02,527
- The man I inherited it from was not
- the real Dread Pirate Roberts either.
- 131
- 00:09:02,687 --> 00:09:06,227
- The real Roberts has been retired 15 years
- and I have been Roberts ever since.
- 132
- 00:09:06,327 --> 00:09:08,507
- I shall retire and hand the name
- over to someone else.
- 133
- 00:09:08,607 --> 00:09:11,107
- This Dread Pirate Roberts, or DPR,
- 134
- 00:09:11,207 --> 00:09:13,467
- would come to spearhead
- the Silk Road forums
- 135
- 00:09:13,567 --> 00:09:16,807
- and was generally assumed to be
- the creator and owner of the site.
- 136
- 00:09:16,927 --> 00:09:18,747
- The Dread Pirate Roberts
- to me seemed to be
- 137
- 00:09:18,847 --> 00:09:21,787
- kind of the most interesting figure
- in that whole world.
- 138
- 00:09:21,887 --> 00:09:25,427
- On the Silk Road forums, he was
- constantly posting these manifestos
- 139
- 00:09:25,527 --> 00:09:30,147
- and love letters to his users
- and libertarian philosophical treaties.
- 140
- 00:09:30,247 --> 00:09:33,567
- And he even had like this...
- Dread Pirate Roberts book club
- 141
- 00:09:33,687 --> 00:09:36,827
- where he hosted discussions
- of Austrian economics
- 142
- 00:09:36,927 --> 00:09:39,287
- and free market philosophy.
- 143
- 00:09:39,407 --> 00:09:41,407
- At the same time, nobody knew who he was.
- 144
- 00:09:41,647 --> 00:09:44,007
- He had never spoken to the press before.
- 145
- 00:09:44,127 --> 00:09:48,007
- I approached him on the Silk Road
- forum mid-2012 and...
- 146
- 00:09:48,127 --> 00:09:51,007
- started kind of just like trying
- to persuade him to talk,
- 147
- 00:09:51,127 --> 00:09:54,807
- chipping away at him
- and just bugging him constantly.
- 148
- 00:09:58,007 --> 00:10:01,087
- The actual trigger, I think
- that made him decide to talk
- 149
- 00:10:01,207 --> 00:10:04,647
- was this competing
- dark website called "Atlantis."
- 150
- 00:10:04,767 --> 00:10:09,367
- They were really much more aggressive
- in their marketing than the Silk Road.
- 151
- 00:10:10,127 --> 00:10:12,027
- They put out this YouTube video
- 152
- 00:10:12,127 --> 00:10:17,767
- advertising Atlantis as the new,
- better dark web drug site.
- 153
- 00:10:17,887 --> 00:10:20,126
- So when I went back
- to the Dread Pirate Roberts
- 154
- 00:10:20,246 --> 00:10:22,246
- and said, "You know,
- I'm going to do this story.
- 155
- 00:10:22,366 --> 00:10:25,026
- It can either be about Atlantis
- or it can be about you,"
- 156
- 00:10:25,126 --> 00:10:27,546
- I think he realized that,
- you know, that...
- 157
- 00:10:27,646 --> 00:10:31,426
- he was a savvy business guy who realized
- he had to talk at that point.
- 158
- 00:10:31,526 --> 00:10:34,566
- He did have a kind of political message
- that he wanted to get out,
- 159
- 00:10:34,686 --> 00:10:37,126
- and I could see that in what
- he was posting on the forums.
- 160
- 00:10:37,246 --> 00:10:39,366
- So I kind of played up to that
- and I told him like,
- 161
- 00:10:39,486 --> 00:10:43,486
- "I can be the vessel for you to talk about
- what the Silk Road really represents,"
- 162
- 00:10:43,606 --> 00:10:45,126
- and I think that that appealed to him.
- 163
- 00:10:45,246 --> 00:10:48,366
- So it took eight months, but finally
- he did agree to an interview.
- 164
- 00:10:51,126 --> 00:10:54,106
- Of course, he didn't tell me
- anything about himself...
- 165
- 00:10:54,206 --> 00:10:57,126
- where he lives, you know,
- his age, identity,
- 166
- 00:10:57,246 --> 00:10:59,646
- anything that could be
- remotely identifying.
- 167
- 00:11:02,686 --> 00:11:05,786
- "I didn't start the Silk Road.
- My predecessor did.
- 168
- 00:11:05,886 --> 00:11:09,686
- "From what I understand it was
- an original idea to combine Bitcoin and Tor
- 169
- 00:11:09,806 --> 00:11:12,646
- "to create an anonymous market.
- Everything was in place.
- 170
- 00:11:12,766 --> 00:11:14,406
- He just put the pieces together.
- 171
- 00:11:14,526 --> 00:11:18,846
- "The most I'm willing to reveal is that I am
- not the first administrator of Silk Road."
- 172
- 00:11:18,966 --> 00:11:21,066
- He was incredibly secretive, of course,
- 173
- 00:11:21,166 --> 00:11:24,026
- about the inner workings
- of the Silk Road and...
- 174
- 00:11:24,126 --> 00:11:26,106
- you know, his own identity, of course.
- 175
- 00:11:26,206 --> 00:11:30,086
- I mean he was hunted by every law
- enforcement agency that you can imagine.
- 176
- 00:11:33,286 --> 00:11:35,746
- "The management of Silk Road
- is a collaborative effort.
- 177
- 00:11:35,846 --> 00:11:38,826
- "It's not just me making sure
- Silk Road runs smoothly.
- 178
- 00:11:38,926 --> 00:11:42,786
- "More often than not, the best ideas
- come from the community itself."
- 179
- 00:11:42,886 --> 00:11:45,926
- But he did tell me some interesting things
- about how he viewed himself and...
- 180
- 00:11:46,046 --> 00:11:48,566
- and the way that the Silk Road works.
- 181
- 00:11:50,646 --> 00:11:54,346
- "We don't allow the sale of anything that's
- main purpose is to harm innocent people
- 182
- 00:11:54,446 --> 00:11:57,386
- "or that it was necessary to harm
- innocent people to bring to market.
- 183
- 00:11:57,486 --> 00:11:59,706
- "For example,
- anything stolen is forbidden.
- 184
- 00:11:59,806 --> 00:12:02,786
- "Counterfeit money and coupons
- which are used to defraud people.
- 185
- 00:12:02,886 --> 00:12:05,706
- "Hit men aren't allowed
- and neither is child pornography.
- 186
- 00:12:05,806 --> 00:12:08,906
- No substance on Silk Road
- falls under those guidelines."
- 187
- 00:12:09,006 --> 00:12:14,246
- This went beyond just, you know,
- like legalizing marijuana or even heroin.
- 188
- 00:12:14,366 --> 00:12:19,186
- He wanted to see a new relationship
- between individuals and the government,
- 189
- 00:12:19,286 --> 00:12:22,806
- where the government was...
- you know, basically hamstrung
- 190
- 00:12:22,926 --> 00:12:25,726
- and couldn't control
- what people bought and sold.
- 191
- 00:12:28,686 --> 00:12:33,066
- "At its core, Silk Road is a way
- to get around regulation from the state.
- 192
- 00:12:33,166 --> 00:12:37,206
- "The state tries to control nearly every
- aspect of our lives. Not just drug use.
- 193
- 00:12:37,486 --> 00:12:41,426
- "Anywhere they do that, there's an
- opportunity to live your life as you see fit,
- 194
- 00:12:41,526 --> 00:12:43,686
- despite their efforts."
- 195
- 00:12:43,886 --> 00:12:47,486
- I shouldn't generally say this kind of thing,
- but I really liked the Dread Pirate Roberts
- 196
- 00:12:47,606 --> 00:12:50,266
- that I interviewed.
- I thought he was, you know...
- 197
- 00:12:50,366 --> 00:12:54,946
- a really super-interesting guy
- with a really coherent philosophy.
- 198
- 00:12:55,046 --> 00:12:59,206
- He came across to me as this kind of
- middle-aged, wise man figure, you know?
- 199
- 00:12:59,446 --> 00:13:03,486
- But not everyone on Silk Road
- believed in libertarian philosophy.
- 200
- 00:13:03,606 --> 00:13:08,185
- Bringing an end to the drug war was
- the agenda that truly united the community.
- 201
- 00:13:08,285 --> 00:13:11,545
- [A huge reason why DPR
- put the website up,]
- 202
- 00:13:11,645 --> 00:13:14,285
- [and allowed the market to begin with,
- and took the risk]
- 203
- 00:13:14,405 --> 00:13:18,025
- [was because... needed to be
- a violence reduction]
- 204
- 00:13:18,125 --> 00:13:21,445
- [in purchasing drugs.
- 'Cause it's gonna happen]
- 205
- 00:13:21,565 --> 00:13:24,125
- [and the reason it's gonna happen
- is because of the War on Drugs.]
- 206
- 00:13:26,405 --> 00:13:30,105
- [The violence isn't just from the people
- buying and selling the drugs...]
- 207
- 00:13:30,205 --> 00:13:32,665
- [The violence is from
- the police departments...]
- 208
- 00:13:32,765 --> 00:13:35,965
- [and the federal agents
- prosecuting this war.]
- 209
- 00:13:36,085 --> 00:13:39,325
- [And not to mention the horrendous violence
- we commit overseas on people.]
- 210
- 00:13:39,685 --> 00:13:42,845
- [We're the biggest bully on the planet
- when it comes to drugs.]
- 211
- 00:13:43,165 --> 00:13:48,305
- [The fact that more than 50%
- of this country has said to the DEAD...]
- 212
- 00:13:48,405 --> 00:13:50,445
- [we don't want you
- prosecuting this war anymore.]
- 213
- 00:13:50,565 --> 00:13:52,425
- [They need to demonize drugs.]
- 214
- 00:13:52,525 --> 00:13:57,445
- [The War on Drugs is, you know,
- all about fear, uncertainty and doubt.]
- 215
- 00:13:58,445 --> 00:14:02,025
- I could see that the Silk Road
- wasn't just another cyber-criminal scheme.
- 216
- 00:14:02,125 --> 00:14:05,925
- This was a guy who saw himself
- as the leader of a movement.
- 217
- 00:14:06,045 --> 00:14:08,665
- "One thing I've learned playing
- Dread Pirate Roberts
- 218
- 00:14:08,765 --> 00:14:12,665
- is that your actions are sure
- to please some and infuriate others.
- 219
- 00:14:12,765 --> 00:14:16,025
- "But we can't stay silent forever.
- We have an important message.
- 220
- 00:14:16,125 --> 00:14:18,585
- "And the time is ripe
- for the world to hear it.
- 221
- 00:14:18,685 --> 00:14:22,405
- "What we're doing isn't about
- scoring drugs or sticking it to the man.
- 222
- 00:14:22,525 --> 00:14:26,225
- "It's about standing up for our rights
- as human beings and refusing to submit
- 223
- 00:14:26,325 --> 00:14:27,905
- "when we've done no wrong.
- 224
- 00:14:28,005 --> 00:14:30,505
- "Silk Road is a vehicle for that message.
- 225
- 00:14:30,605 --> 00:14:33,125
- All else is secondary."
- 226
- 00:14:33,685 --> 00:14:36,925
- The Silk Road functioned because
- the Dread Pirate Roberts was trusted.
- 227
- 00:14:37,045 --> 00:14:41,185
- At any point, he could've shut down the Silk
- Road and run away with everyone's Bitcoins.
- 228
- 00:14:41,285 --> 00:14:44,425
- We've seen that happen
- with a bunch of other dark web businesses.
- 229
- 00:14:44,525 --> 00:14:47,525
- But he didn't, and I think
- people believed that he wouldn't
- 230
- 00:14:47,645 --> 00:14:51,905
- because they felt that he was
- a true believer in this kind of radically
- 231
- 00:14:52,005 --> 00:14:56,425
- libertarian, crypto-anarchic
- philosophy that, you know,
- 232
- 00:14:56,525 --> 00:14:59,205
- goes back to the cypherpunks of the 1990s.
- 233
- 00:15:00,245 --> 00:15:04,365
- Twenty-five years ago, in the Bay Area,
- a burgeoning group of mathematicians,
- 234
- 00:15:04,485 --> 00:15:08,285
- crypto-anarchists and hackers
- began to meet in each other's homes.
- 235
- 00:15:08,605 --> 00:15:12,905
- This tight-knit group came to be
- casually known as the "cypherpunks."
- 236
- 00:15:13,005 --> 00:15:15,565
- These original members
- were not socially motivated,
- 237
- 00:15:15,725 --> 00:15:19,065
- but more concerned with the hard math
- of cryptographic technology
- 238
- 00:15:19,165 --> 00:15:23,645
- and the broader philosophy of anonymity,
- individual liberty and privacy.
- 239
- 00:15:23,765 --> 00:15:27,065
- The government has this clear policy
- of access to all plain text,
- 240
- 00:15:27,165 --> 00:15:29,145
- meaning whatever you're saying,
- they want access to.
- 241
- 00:15:29,245 --> 00:15:31,425
- If it's stored on your hard disk,
- they want access to it.
- 242
- 00:15:31,525 --> 00:15:33,565
- If it so goes over the wire,
- they want access to it.
- 243
- 00:15:33,685 --> 00:15:37,165
- If you are proxying speech for someone
- else, they wanna know who it is.
- 244
- 00:15:37,645 --> 00:15:40,325
- The cypherpunks were instrumental
- in the growing movement
- 245
- 00:15:40,445 --> 00:15:43,145
- towards privacy and anonymity online.
- 246
- 00:15:43,245 --> 00:15:47,305
- And they would pioneer the way
- into the hidden corners of the Internet.
- 247
- 00:15:47,405 --> 00:15:49,925
- Maybe the big turning point
- for the cypherpunks,
- 248
- 00:15:50,045 --> 00:15:52,744
- I think, was WikiLeaks and Julian Assange
- 249
- 00:15:52,844 --> 00:15:56,024
- and Jacob Appelbaum's idea
- of what it means to be a cypherpunk.
- 250
- 00:15:56,124 --> 00:15:58,104
- You cannot trust a government
- 251
- 00:15:58,204 --> 00:16:00,904
- to implement the policies
- that it says that it's implementing.
- 252
- 00:16:01,004 --> 00:16:04,444
- And so we must provide
- the underlying tools,
- 253
- 00:16:04,564 --> 00:16:07,304
- secret cryptographic codes
- that the government couldn't spy on
- 254
- 00:16:07,404 --> 00:16:10,784
- to everyone as a sort of use of force.
- 255
- 00:16:10,884 --> 00:16:16,164
- And a government no matter how hard
- it tries, if the cyphers are good,
- 256
- 00:16:16,284 --> 00:16:19,004
- cannot break into
- your communications directly.
- 257
- 00:16:19,124 --> 00:16:21,544
- Force of authority
- is derived from violence.
- 258
- 00:16:21,644 --> 00:16:24,464
- One must acknowledge with cryptography,
- no amount of violence
- 259
- 00:16:24,564 --> 00:16:26,324
- - will ever solve a math problem.
- - Exactly.
- 260
- 00:16:26,444 --> 00:16:29,104
- And this is the important key.
- It doesn't mean you can't be tortured.
- 261
- 00:16:29,204 --> 00:16:32,064
- It doesn't mean they can't try to bug
- your house or subvert it in some way,
- 262
- 00:16:32,164 --> 00:16:34,784
- but it means if they find an encrypted
- message it doesn't matter if they have
- 263
- 00:16:34,884 --> 00:16:37,224
- the force of the authority
- behind everything that they do.
- 264
- 00:16:37,324 --> 00:16:38,864
- They cannot solve that math problem.
- 265
- 00:16:38,964 --> 00:16:42,524
- This movement is not about
- the destruction of law.
- 266
- 00:16:42,644 --> 00:16:46,464
- This movement is not about
- the destruction of law.
- 267
- 00:16:46,564 --> 00:16:49,244
- It is about the construction of law.
- 268
- 00:16:49,364 --> 00:16:53,404
- These are guys who want to create
- encryption tools that everybody can use.
- 269
- 00:16:53,524 --> 00:16:54,904
- It's not just for the elite.
- 270
- 00:16:55,004 --> 00:16:58,084
- It's trying to shift the way
- that the Internet works
- 271
- 00:16:58,204 --> 00:17:01,884
- to provide secrecy and anonymity
- and privacy to everyone...
- 272
- 00:17:02,004 --> 00:17:05,284
- you know, so like...
- it's a much more populist movement.
- 273
- 00:17:05,684 --> 00:17:10,244
- There is a community of people
- in the security and cryptography space
- 274
- 00:17:10,364 --> 00:17:14,364
- who want to live in a world where
- the government cannot record their emails,
- 275
- 00:17:14,484 --> 00:17:18,484
- cannot listen to their telephone calls,
- cannot see who they're spending time with.
- 276
- 00:17:18,604 --> 00:17:20,584
- And they're trying to build tools.
- 277
- 00:17:20,684 --> 00:17:23,144
- They're trying to build
- protocols and services
- 278
- 00:17:23,244 --> 00:17:27,244
- that can facilitate that kind of anonymous
- and private exchange of information.
- 279
- 00:17:27,364 --> 00:17:31,164
- I actually think this all comes down
- to wanting to live a free life.
- 280
- 00:17:31,284 --> 00:17:34,944
- And the recognition which
- really predates all technology,
- 281
- 00:17:35,044 --> 00:17:37,984
- that an observed life
- is not a completely free life,
- 282
- 00:17:38,084 --> 00:17:41,464
- that a zone of privacy
- is just a core human value.
- 283
- 00:17:41,564 --> 00:17:46,284
- And the technology
- to me is just an incarnation
- 284
- 00:17:46,524 --> 00:17:48,644
- of those basic human values.
- 285
- 00:17:48,764 --> 00:17:51,744
- And I think that the people
- who are trying to build
- 286
- 00:17:51,844 --> 00:17:54,564
- currencies that are free of tracking
- and government control
- 287
- 00:17:54,684 --> 00:17:57,464
- and technologies that let you
- have a private conversation
- 288
- 00:17:57,564 --> 00:18:01,824
- and those kinds of things
- are just people who are seeing
- 289
- 00:18:01,924 --> 00:18:06,904
- that the technology can both enable
- and disable that space.
- 290
- 00:18:07,004 --> 00:18:09,844
- There are more cypherpunks
- than ever before.
- 291
- 00:18:10,204 --> 00:18:14,464
- They want to entirely cripple
- the government's ability to enforce law.
- 292
- 00:18:14,564 --> 00:18:20,104
- They want cryptography to make the rules
- instead of law enforcement.
- 293
- 00:18:20,204 --> 00:18:24,444
- Cody Wilson is a crypto-anarchist
- best known for developing the Liberator,
- 294
- 00:18:24,564 --> 00:18:29,544
- a 3D printable gun that was downloaded
- 100,000 times in two days.
- 295
- 00:18:29,644 --> 00:18:32,584
- When a group of baby boomers are told,
- okay now 3D printers will print guns,
- 296
- 00:18:32,684 --> 00:18:36,684
- they can do nothing but say, "Well, it's been
- nice living in the world I used to know."
- 297
- 00:18:36,804 --> 00:18:40,803
- We want to question the very foundation,
- evacuate the very foundation
- 298
- 00:18:40,923 --> 00:18:46,283
- that this order, moral,
- ethical, political, is founded on.
- 299
- 00:18:47,003 --> 00:18:50,523
- To see beyond good and evil
- and to allow something else to happen.
- 300
- 00:18:50,923 --> 00:18:53,383
- This is where the figure of DPR
- is so interesting to me.
- 301
- 00:18:53,483 --> 00:18:56,423
- Like is he a liberal?
- Like is he a Misesian like he says he is?
- 302
- 00:18:56,523 --> 00:18:58,503
- He believes in libertarian
- market principles,
- 303
- 00:18:58,603 --> 00:19:01,503
- and you know man against the state
- and all these these principles of freedom
- 304
- 00:19:01,603 --> 00:19:04,543
- and axioms of... or is he someone else?
- 305
- 00:19:04,643 --> 00:19:08,023
- Like who I hope he is or someone
- like I would try to hope to be,
- 306
- 00:19:08,123 --> 00:19:10,743
- who's just looking for a way, a mechanism,
- 307
- 00:19:10,843 --> 00:19:13,703
- to help peek beyond
- good and evil a little bit. And...
- 308
- 00:19:13,803 --> 00:19:18,503
- is he more enthusiastic about what he's...
- what he's allowed to be opened up,
- 309
- 00:19:18,603 --> 00:19:20,423
- the doors he's opening.
- 310
- 00:19:20,523 --> 00:19:23,703
- Of course, there will be
- a dark side to the dark web.
- 311
- 00:19:23,803 --> 00:19:27,423
- And if we want to enable this...
- this true crypto-anarchic future,
- 312
- 00:19:27,523 --> 00:19:30,783
- anyone who's working on that, I think,
- has to reckon with the fact that...
- 313
- 00:19:30,883 --> 00:19:33,863
- they're going to be enabling
- really nasty things
- 314
- 00:19:33,963 --> 00:19:38,523
- along with this kind of information freedom
- revolution that they're taking part in.
- 315
- 00:19:39,083 --> 00:19:42,583
- By August 2012, business was booming.
- 316
- 00:19:42,683 --> 00:19:47,323
- The Silk Road had become a thriving,
- anonymous and unregulated black market.
- 317
- 00:19:47,443 --> 00:19:51,323
- The Internet being used in this way,
- posed a major threat to the government,
- 318
- 00:19:51,443 --> 00:19:53,483
- greater perhaps than selling drugs.
- 319
- 00:19:53,603 --> 00:19:56,523
- Even as a law enforcement officer,
- I still wouldn't know
- 320
- 00:19:56,643 --> 00:20:00,983
- where to go and buy crack
- on the streets or buy heroin,
- 321
- 00:20:01,083 --> 00:20:03,143
- but I do know how
- to go online and find it.
- 322
- 00:20:03,243 --> 00:20:06,083
- It's downloading some software
- and the next thing you know you're there
- 323
- 00:20:06,203 --> 00:20:09,923
- and you can purchase a service
- or drugs very easily.
- 324
- 00:20:10,723 --> 00:20:14,463
- Since when does a teenager become
- obsessed with the daily mail delivery?
- 325
- 00:20:14,563 --> 00:20:17,983
- Fidgeting and pacing made
- this Fisher's mom suspicious.
- 326
- 00:20:18,083 --> 00:20:22,823
- So when her family's mail arrived,
- she grabbed it and found a cartoon DVD box
- 327
- 00:20:22,923 --> 00:20:27,363
- addressed to her son with something extra,
- a package of white crystals.
- 328
- 00:20:27,483 --> 00:20:31,803
- So she confronted her 14-year-old
- and both their lives changed forever.
- 329
- 00:20:32,123 --> 00:20:34,823
- I don't think anybody really cared
- in law enforcement
- 330
- 00:20:34,923 --> 00:20:37,543
- until Senator Schumer went, "Oh, my God,
- we've gotta do something about this."
- 331
- 00:20:37,643 --> 00:20:40,323
- Today I'm calling on the DEA
- and the Department of Justice
- 332
- 00:20:40,443 --> 00:20:44,003
- to immediately shut this site down
- before more damage is done.
- 333
- 00:20:44,123 --> 00:20:46,923
- Because if you think about what
- law enforcement at the federal level
- 334
- 00:20:47,043 --> 00:20:49,143
- has to do to even start a case,
- 335
- 00:20:49,243 --> 00:20:52,643
- I don't think this case would've been started
- if it wasn't for some political impetus
- 336
- 00:20:52,763 --> 00:20:55,643
- by, you know, a senator saying,
- "We need to look into this."
- 337
- 00:20:55,763 --> 00:21:00,263
- The FBI today shut down what it's calling
- the most sophisticated Internet site
- 338
- 00:21:00,363 --> 00:21:04,843
- in the business of selling hard drugs,
- including heroin, cocaine and LSD.
- 339
- 00:21:05,283 --> 00:21:08,703
- Anyone trying to log on to the website
- today found this notice:
- 340
- 00:21:08,803 --> 00:21:10,363
- "Shut down by the FBI."
- 341
- 00:21:10,483 --> 00:21:13,223
- It was a sophisticated
- electronic smokescreen
- 342
- 00:21:13,323 --> 00:21:16,023
- and it took federal agents
- almost two years.
- 343
- 00:21:16,123 --> 00:21:19,483
- They were able to infiltrate the site,
- but they made some of these purchases
- 344
- 00:21:19,603 --> 00:21:21,723
- themselves using undercover identities.
- 345
- 00:21:21,843 --> 00:21:26,822
- The secretive Dread Pirate Roberts was
- arrested in the most unlikely of places...
- 346
- 00:21:26,922 --> 00:21:30,242
- this local public library
- in this San Francisco neighborhood.
- 347
- 00:21:30,362 --> 00:21:33,942
- The FBI seized $3.6 million
- 348
- 00:21:34,042 --> 00:21:38,402
- of Bitcoin's biggest haul
- in its five-year history.
- 349
- 00:21:51,722 --> 00:21:54,782
- When the criminal complaint
- first appeared in October,
- 350
- 00:21:54,882 --> 00:21:58,082
- it describes this 29-year-old
- kid named Ross Ulbricht.
- 351
- 00:22:00,322 --> 00:22:04,542
- Not only do they say that he has run this
- billion-dollar plus black market conspiracy
- 352
- 00:22:04,642 --> 00:22:07,542
- and they accuse him of drug trafficking
- and money laundering
- 353
- 00:22:07,642 --> 00:22:09,922
- and somehow computer
- hacking charges, as well,
- 354
- 00:22:10,042 --> 00:22:13,882
- which is something that I had never
- associated with the Silk Road.
- 355
- 00:22:14,522 --> 00:22:18,402
- But then also in this criminal
- complaint there is outlined
- 356
- 00:22:18,522 --> 00:22:20,822
- his plot to pay for the murders
- 357
- 00:22:20,922 --> 00:22:24,182
- of a potential informant
- and a blackmailer.
- 358
- 00:22:24,282 --> 00:22:26,522
- It seems at least one Silk Road user
- 359
- 00:22:26,642 --> 00:22:29,542
- threatened to reveal the identities
- of thousands of others.
- 360
- 00:22:29,642 --> 00:22:34,882
- So investigators say Ulbricht tried to
- execute a Murder-For-Hire on that user,
- 361
- 00:22:35,002 --> 00:22:39,802
- offering $150,000
- to a would-be hit man because...
- 362
- 00:22:39,922 --> 00:22:42,662
- "This kind of behavior
- is unforgivable to me.
- 363
- 00:22:42,762 --> 00:22:47,042
- Especially here on Silk Road,
- anonymity is sacrosant.
- 364
- 00:22:47,162 --> 00:22:49,022
- It threw me for a loop. It was really not
- 365
- 00:22:49,122 --> 00:22:51,582
- the Dread Pirate Roberts
- that I had ever imagined.
- 366
- 00:22:51,682 --> 00:22:54,442
- This connection between Ross Ulbricht,
- 367
- 00:22:54,562 --> 00:22:57,822
- who plenty of evidence suggests
- that he was involved in the Silk Road.
- 368
- 00:22:57,922 --> 00:23:01,122
- They, after all, seized his laptop
- while he was logged in to the Silk Road.
- 369
- 00:23:01,242 --> 00:23:02,682
- He was caught red-handed.
- 370
- 00:23:02,802 --> 00:23:05,602
- But these two personalities,
- these two personas,
- 371
- 00:23:05,722 --> 00:23:08,582
- do seem to be almost schizophrenic.
- 372
- 00:23:08,682 --> 00:23:12,022
- It's so difficult to imagine
- that they are the same person.
- 373
- 00:23:12,122 --> 00:23:16,322
- And so the FBI's whole case
- is based on the idea if they can show
- 374
- 00:23:16,442 --> 00:23:18,362
- that Dread Pirate Roberts
- is Ross Ulbricht?
- 375
- 00:23:18,482 --> 00:23:20,582
- Right. That's the most
- important part, right?
- 376
- 00:23:20,682 --> 00:23:23,782
- Because he was trying to hide
- his identity on the site as well.
- 377
- 00:23:23,882 --> 00:23:26,942
- So the first thing they're gonna
- have to do is definitively link him
- 378
- 00:23:27,042 --> 00:23:29,522
- as the person who runs the site.
- 379
- 00:23:34,002 --> 00:23:36,542
- Oh, man, it was like
- it was yesterday, actually.
- 380
- 00:23:36,642 --> 00:23:41,242
- I was on my computer and...
- I was on Facebook.
- 381
- 00:23:41,362 --> 00:23:45,882
- And there's this guy that I know
- and he's very into like Bitcoin
- 382
- 00:23:46,002 --> 00:23:47,962
- and cryptocurrencies and stuff like that.
- 383
- 00:23:48,082 --> 00:23:52,382
- He posted this article and it says,
- "Ross Ulbricht Arrested."
- 384
- 00:23:52,482 --> 00:23:55,702
- And I pull up Lyn's...
- G-chat and I'm like,
- 385
- 00:23:55,802 --> 00:23:59,742
- "What is going on? Like why is..."
- And I'm looking at Ross' page...
- 386
- 00:23:59,842 --> 00:24:03,222
- Picture, you know, about being arrested.
- What is this?
- 387
- 00:24:03,322 --> 00:24:06,262
- She says, "We don't even know.
- We're leaving Costa Rica right now."
- 388
- 00:24:06,362 --> 00:24:09,621
- I mean, they were on their way,
- but it blew my mind.
- 389
- 00:24:09,721 --> 00:24:11,921
- I mean totally blew my mind.
- 390
- 00:24:15,761 --> 00:24:19,141
- Ross William Ulbricht grew up
- in a suburb of Austin,
- 391
- 00:24:19,241 --> 00:24:23,381
- the only son of Kirk and Lyn
- with an older sister named Callie.
- 392
- 00:24:23,481 --> 00:24:26,581
- It's a loving, tight-knit,
- middle-class family.
- 393
- 00:24:26,681 --> 00:24:29,241
- The Ulbrichts earn their income
- from properties they built
- 394
- 00:24:29,361 --> 00:24:32,321
- and rent on the Costa Rican coast.
- 395
- 00:24:32,441 --> 00:24:36,161
- Ross was an avid outdoorsman,
- an Eagle Scout like his father,
- 396
- 00:24:36,281 --> 00:24:39,041
- and displayed an early aptitude for math.
- 397
- 00:24:39,321 --> 00:24:42,881
- Ross earned a full scholarship
- to the University of Texas at Dallas
- 398
- 00:24:43,001 --> 00:24:44,821
- studying Physics.
- 399
- 00:24:44,921 --> 00:24:49,441
- He graduated in 2006 and then won
- another full scholarship to Penn State
- 400
- 00:24:49,641 --> 00:24:53,401
- to pursue a Masters
- in Material Science and Engineering.
- 401
- 00:24:53,521 --> 00:24:57,401
- It was at Penn State that Ross began
- a deep interest in libertarianism,
- 402
- 00:24:57,521 --> 00:25:02,081
- particularly the work of Ludwig Von Mises
- and the Austrian School of Economics.
- 403
- 00:25:02,201 --> 00:25:05,341
- Yet by 2009, having completed his Masters,
- 404
- 00:25:05,441 --> 00:25:07,721
- Ross seemed to be having
- a change of life plan
- 405
- 00:25:07,841 --> 00:25:12,321
- telling his mother he no longer had an
- interest in pursuing a career in science
- 406
- 00:25:12,441 --> 00:25:15,221
- and instead wanted to become
- an entrepreneur.
- 407
- 00:25:15,321 --> 00:25:19,781
- Ross moved back to Austin and opened
- his own used book company, Good Wagon,
- 408
- 00:25:19,881 --> 00:25:23,221
- donating a portion of the proceeds
- to an inner city youth program
- 409
- 00:25:23,321 --> 00:25:25,561
- and to a prison literacy project.
- 410
- 00:25:25,721 --> 00:25:29,981
- I remember him saying, when we had coffee,
- the last time we saw each other,
- 411
- 00:25:30,081 --> 00:25:34,681
- I remember him saying that he wished
- he had joined a fraternity in college.
- 412
- 00:25:34,801 --> 00:25:36,641
- And I remember saying,
- "Well, that's surprising."
- 413
- 00:25:36,761 --> 00:25:40,161
- You know, I didn't really understand
- that perspective,
- 414
- 00:25:40,281 --> 00:25:42,581
- and I just remember him thinking,
- 415
- 00:25:42,681 --> 00:25:46,301
- well, he focused a lot
- on his studies in school
- 416
- 00:25:46,401 --> 00:25:49,581
- and maybe didn't create the social network
- 417
- 00:25:49,681 --> 00:25:52,981
- that he was looking for...
- in... in school.
- 418
- 00:25:53,081 --> 00:25:58,561
- But as far as where we saw each other
- going or where we saw ourselves going...
- 419
- 00:25:59,441 --> 00:26:03,381
- I think we both had a strong desire
- 420
- 00:26:03,481 --> 00:26:06,041
- to be in control of our destiny.
- 421
- 00:26:06,161 --> 00:26:09,941
- You know, again like when he started
- the book company, totally natural.
- 422
- 00:26:10,041 --> 00:26:13,201
- Not even something that I would've
- questioned, where there are a lot of people
- 423
- 00:26:13,321 --> 00:26:17,201
- that would never start their own business.
- But for Ross, sure, you know, why not?
- 424
- 00:26:17,401 --> 00:26:21,021
- But the business floundered
- and Ross eventually shut it down.
- 425
- 00:26:21,121 --> 00:26:24,101
- And if a post on his Linkedln page
- was any indication,
- 426
- 00:26:24,201 --> 00:26:28,381
- Ross had experienced a kind of epiphany
- on the next way forward.
- 427
- 00:26:28,481 --> 00:26:31,361
- Ulbricht wrote,
- "Now my goals have shifted.
- 428
- 00:26:31,481 --> 00:26:35,001
- "I want to use economic theory as a means
- to abolish the use of coercion
- 429
- 00:26:35,121 --> 00:26:37,301
- "and aggression amongst mankind.
- 430
- 00:26:37,401 --> 00:26:40,341
- "To that end, I am creating
- an economic simulation
- 431
- 00:26:40,441 --> 00:26:42,681
- "to give people a first-hand experience
- 432
- 00:26:42,801 --> 00:26:46,601
- "of what it would be like to live in a world
- without the systemic use of force."
- 433
- 00:26:47,041 --> 00:26:51,181
- From this moment, in late 2010,
- Ross became something of a free spirit,
- 434
- 00:26:51,281 --> 00:26:53,541
- eventually leaving
- his parents' home in Austin
- 435
- 00:26:53,641 --> 00:26:56,220
- to live with his sister Callie
- in Sydney, Australia
- 436
- 00:26:56,320 --> 00:26:58,460
- and then returning briefly to Austin.
- 437
- 00:26:58,560 --> 00:27:01,020
- Throughout this period,
- as far as his family knew,
- 438
- 00:27:01,120 --> 00:27:05,940
- Ross' means of employment was working
- on freelance projects in computer finance.
- 439
- 00:27:06,040 --> 00:27:09,140
- I am Rene Pinnell, age 29.
- 440
- 00:27:09,240 --> 00:27:11,860
- Today is December 6, 2012
- 441
- 00:27:11,960 --> 00:27:15,700
- and we are in the Jewish
- Contemporary Art Museum...
- 442
- 00:27:15,800 --> 00:27:21,160
- and relationship to partner
- is best friend.
- 443
- 00:27:22,160 --> 00:27:25,200
- So, Ross, how did you come
- to live in San Francisco?
- 444
- 00:27:25,840 --> 00:27:28,860
- You twisted my arm until I said,
- 445
- 00:27:28,960 --> 00:27:31,480
- "Fine, I'll come."
- 446
- 00:27:31,880 --> 00:27:34,500
- I get a phone call from Rene,
- "Ross, call me up.
- 447
- 00:27:34,600 --> 00:27:37,140
- I've got an opportunity for you."
- I'm like, "Okay."
- 448
- 00:27:37,240 --> 00:27:41,380
- He's like, "Yeah, I'm doing
- a startup here in San Francisco.
- 449
- 00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:42,740
- I want you to be a part of it."
- 450
- 00:27:42,840 --> 00:27:45,260
- The more I thought about it,
- and the more he...
- 451
- 00:27:45,360 --> 00:27:48,120
- laid out the pros and cons...
- 452
- 00:27:49,720 --> 00:27:53,240
- the more it all just seemed like cosmic
- and the right thing to do.
- 453
- 00:27:53,360 --> 00:27:55,780
- So... yeah.
- 454
- 00:27:55,880 --> 00:27:59,920
- I bought my ticket and two weeks later
- I showed up at his doorstep.
- 455
- 00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:03,900
- As Ross Ulbricht was making his way
- from Australia to Austin,
- 456
- 00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:05,580
- and eventually to San Francisco,
- 457
- 00:28:05,680 --> 00:28:08,380
- the Silk Road was online
- and growing steadily.
- 458
- 00:28:08,480 --> 00:28:11,320
- So naturally it sparked the attention
- of federal law enforcement
- 459
- 00:28:11,440 --> 00:28:15,960
- and specifically the wing of the DHS
- called Homeland Security Investigations,
- 460
- 00:28:16,080 --> 00:28:19,540
- housed in the old Customs House
- in Baltimore, Maryland.
- 461
- 00:28:19,640 --> 00:28:24,600
- You have postal inspectors in Seattle
- and Customs and Border Protection...
- 462
- 00:28:24,720 --> 00:28:28,140
- intercepting mail shipments coming
- from overseas full of drugs,
- 463
- 00:28:28,240 --> 00:28:30,340
- full of... full of currency.
- 464
- 00:28:30,440 --> 00:28:34,480
- And one thing that happens is
- they all lead back to the Silk Road.
- 465
- 00:28:35,040 --> 00:28:38,840
- And you have a number
- of independent investigations
- 466
- 00:28:38,960 --> 00:28:42,080
- sort of cropping up
- around the same timeframe
- 467
- 00:28:42,200 --> 00:28:45,800
- following different leads,
- but all leading back to the same place.
- 468
- 00:28:46,040 --> 00:28:49,720
- At the same time, the New York
- Cyber-Crime Division of the FBI
- 469
- 00:28:49,840 --> 00:28:53,560
- began their own investigation,
- headed by Agent Chris Tarbell.
- 470
- 00:28:53,680 --> 00:28:56,660
- There were people essentially online 24/7
- 471
- 00:28:56,760 --> 00:28:59,920
- as part of the team
- that was monitoring, gathering,
- 472
- 00:29:00,040 --> 00:29:01,920
- even just the little bits of evidence.
- 473
- 00:29:02,040 --> 00:29:03,800
- Informants were activated.
- 474
- 00:29:03,920 --> 00:29:07,320
- The site was crawling with law enforcement
- posing as vendors and buyers
- 475
- 00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:10,720
- from the very beginning
- of Silk Road's existence.
- 476
- 00:29:10,840 --> 00:29:16,880
- In early 2012, HSI partnered with Tarbell's
- FBI investigators as well as the DEA
- 477
- 00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:20,180
- to mount an undercover operation called
- "Marco Polo"
- 478
- 00:29:20,280 --> 00:29:24,100
- with the intention of penetrating
- the inner sanctum of the Silk Road.
- 479
- 00:29:24,200 --> 00:29:28,600
- [I had a package seized from China in
- January 2012 and thought nothing of it.]
- 480
- 00:29:28,720 --> 00:29:31,900
- [I kept business as usual,
- which was a stupid move.]
- 481
- 00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:34,260
- [Fast forward to June 28th, 2012]
- 482
- 00:29:34,360 --> 00:29:39,040
- [I was raided by ATF, DEA,
- Secret Service, local police department]
- 483
- 00:29:39,160 --> 00:29:41,039
- [and even a postal inspector.]
- 484
- 00:29:41,159 --> 00:29:42,299
- [I was not detained.]
- 485
- 00:29:42,399 --> 00:29:47,239
- [Rather, I was held in a van outside
- for what they call "investigative detention."]
- 486
- 00:29:47,359 --> 00:29:49,879
- [They kept me out of jail.
- I was never booked or charged]
- 487
- 00:29:49,999 --> 00:29:53,839
- [because my seized computers were more
- useful to them if I was not behind bars.]
- 488
- 00:29:53,959 --> 00:29:56,399
- [I'm also assuming they did this
- with a number of Silk Road vendors]
- 489
- 00:29:56,519 --> 00:29:59,339
- [to get a sort of organized crime
- ring of their own.]
- 490
- 00:29:59,439 --> 00:30:01,179
- The operation gained traction
- 491
- 00:30:01,279 --> 00:30:04,139
- when an undercover agent
- using the vendor name of "nob"
- 492
- 00:30:04,239 --> 00:30:08,819
- was allegedly able to establish direct
- communication with the Dread Pirate Roberts,
- 493
- 00:30:08,919 --> 00:30:11,299
- which would lead
- to a shocking turn of events.
- 494
- 00:30:11,399 --> 00:30:16,439
- Nob complained to DPR about the small-fry
- nature of most deals on the Silk Road.
- 495
- 00:30:16,559 --> 00:30:20,319
- "It really isn't worth it
- to do below 10 kilos," the agent wrote.
- 496
- 00:30:20,439 --> 00:30:22,979
- DPR offered to help find a buyer for nob
- 497
- 00:30:23,079 --> 00:30:27,259
- and allegedly turned to one of his most
- trusted partners known only as "chronicpain"
- 498
- 00:30:27,359 --> 00:30:28,899
- to put the deal together.
- 499
- 00:30:28,999 --> 00:30:31,319
- Chronicpain had been one
- of the core administrators
- 500
- 00:30:31,439 --> 00:30:32,919
- of the Silk Road from the beginning,
- 501
- 00:30:33,039 --> 00:30:36,339
- a frequent contributor to the forums
- who shared the Silk Road vision
- 502
- 00:30:36,439 --> 00:30:40,679
- for reducing harm in the drug trade,
- but these halcyon days were about to end.
- 503
- 00:30:41,159 --> 00:30:43,299
- In order to facilitate this drug deal,
- 504
- 00:30:43,399 --> 00:30:46,739
- chronicpain gave the informant
- his home address.
- 505
- 00:30:46,839 --> 00:30:51,059
- Federal agents immediately apprehended
- chronicpain at his Salt Lake City home
- 506
- 00:30:51,159 --> 00:30:54,959
- and were surprised to discover
- that this 47-year-old family man
- 507
- 00:30:55,079 --> 00:30:58,659
- named Curtis Clark Green
- was a dark net criminal.
- 508
- 00:30:58,759 --> 00:31:00,319
- At some point they're going
- to catch one of those people.
- 509
- 00:31:00,439 --> 00:31:02,079
- And what do you do in a typical drug case?
- 510
- 00:31:02,199 --> 00:31:04,599
- You roll that person over
- as a cooperating witness.
- 511
- 00:31:04,719 --> 00:31:07,779
- And in this case, one of them
- they got really lucky
- 512
- 00:31:07,879 --> 00:31:09,939
- and he was an administrator on the system.
- 513
- 00:31:10,039 --> 00:31:14,259
- Green had access to other Silk Road
- users' accounts and financial records,
- 514
- 00:31:14,359 --> 00:31:16,099
- including Dread Pirate Roberts.
- 515
- 00:31:16,199 --> 00:31:20,659
- "I have to assume he will sing,"
- DPR wrote to nob, the undercover agent.
- 516
- 00:31:20,759 --> 00:31:24,439
- "I'd like him beat up."
- Then, the next day, he allegedly wrote...
- 517
- 00:31:24,559 --> 00:31:27,799
- "Can you change the order
- to execute rather than torture?"
- 518
- 00:31:27,919 --> 00:31:32,739
- A murder was staged. And a photograph
- of Green's bloody body was sent to DPR,
- 519
- 00:31:32,839 --> 00:31:35,219
- who paid for the hit in Bitcoin.
- 520
- 00:31:35,319 --> 00:31:37,919
- There would be five more alleged
- Murders-For-Hire,
- 521
- 00:31:38,039 --> 00:31:41,299
- including ordered hits against
- a blackmailer, a scammer
- 522
- 00:31:41,399 --> 00:31:44,319
- and an apparent contract
- with the Hells Angels.
- 523
- 00:31:44,439 --> 00:31:47,799
- The names of two of these victims
- were found to be fictitious.
- 524
- 00:31:47,919 --> 00:31:51,619
- And authorities have no evidence
- of any murders being carried out.
- 525
- 00:31:51,719 --> 00:31:54,739
- The alleged attempted murder
- of Curtis Green allowed the authorities
- 526
- 00:31:54,839 --> 00:31:57,779
- to obtain an indictment
- against Dread Pirate Roberts,
- 527
- 00:31:57,879 --> 00:32:02,579
- charging him with drug offenses,
- attempted witness murder and Murder-For-Hire.
- 528
- 00:32:02,679 --> 00:32:06,999
- Of course, they still had no idea
- who the Dread Pirate Roberts actually was.
- 529
- 00:32:07,119 --> 00:32:09,919
- So the embedded agents
- continued to communicate with DPR,
- 530
- 00:32:10,039 --> 00:32:12,679
- and DPR continued to respond.
- 531
- 00:32:14,639 --> 00:32:19,639
- In June of 2013, Ross moved into an
- apartment that he found on Craigslist.
- 532
- 00:32:19,759 --> 00:32:24,579
- Allegedly, he did not give his roommates his
- real name and was known as Joshua Terrey.
- 533
- 00:32:24,679 --> 00:32:29,478
- At the same time, IRS agent Gary Alford
- was investigating the Silk Road
- 534
- 00:32:29,598 --> 00:32:33,058
- and through a simple Google search
- was able to locate an early email
- 535
- 00:32:33,158 --> 00:32:37,138
- on the open Internet discussing
- the launch of the Silk Road marketplace
- 536
- 00:32:37,238 --> 00:32:41,778
- and connect that email to an account
- owned by Ross Ulbricht.
- 537
- 00:32:41,878 --> 00:32:44,718
- One month later, postal inspectors
- at the Canadian border
- 538
- 00:32:44,838 --> 00:32:48,238
- seized a package of fake IDs
- with Ross' image
- 539
- 00:32:48,358 --> 00:32:50,878
- that were en route to his home address.
- 540
- 00:32:52,158 --> 00:32:56,438
- Ross was visited at his apartment
- by several DHS agents.
- 541
- 00:32:56,558 --> 00:32:59,418
- The agents handed Ross
- a false California driver's license
- 542
- 00:32:59,518 --> 00:33:01,858
- that bore his picture,
- but a different name.
- 543
- 00:33:01,958 --> 00:33:05,278
- Ulbricht denied ownership
- or knowledge of the fake IDs,
- 544
- 00:33:05,398 --> 00:33:07,998
- and the agents simply left.
- 545
- 00:33:08,758 --> 00:33:11,938
- If you suspect somebody
- may be involved in a...
- 546
- 00:33:12,038 --> 00:33:13,778
- large-scale criminal enterprise,
- 547
- 00:33:13,878 --> 00:33:16,338
- going and knocking on a door
- with some... you know,
- 548
- 00:33:16,438 --> 00:33:19,838
- some evidence of fake IDs is important...
- 549
- 00:33:19,958 --> 00:33:22,778
- because you can see the guy face-to-face.
- 550
- 00:33:22,878 --> 00:33:25,818
- You may get some useful information
- out of an interview.
- 551
- 00:33:25,918 --> 00:33:28,318
- You may or may not want to take him
- into custody on the spot.
- 552
- 00:33:28,438 --> 00:33:31,698
- Let's sit back and let's...
- let's really go after this
- 553
- 00:33:31,798 --> 00:33:35,618
- in a you know, much more
- global way, if you will,
- 554
- 00:33:35,718 --> 00:33:38,898
- because there's a lot more
- here than just one count of,
- 555
- 00:33:38,998 --> 00:33:40,658
- you know, fake IDs.
- 556
- 00:33:40,758 --> 00:33:42,278
- The next big break in the case
- 557
- 00:33:42,398 --> 00:33:46,198
- would be achieved by FBI agent Tarbell
- and his cyber-crime team,
- 558
- 00:33:46,318 --> 00:33:50,358
- who had somehow located the Silk Road
- servers in Germany and Iceland.
- 559
- 00:33:50,478 --> 00:33:53,978
- How these hidden servers were found
- has been a matter of controversy,
- 560
- 00:33:54,078 --> 00:33:57,538
- but the FBI had their own copy
- of the Silk Road server,
- 561
- 00:33:57,638 --> 00:34:01,498
- and now they hoped to finally unmask
- the Dread Pirate Roberts.
- 562
- 00:34:01,598 --> 00:34:04,038
- [I decided there was a flaw
- in this setup somewhere,]
- 563
- 00:34:04,158 --> 00:34:06,198
- [I couldn't quite put my finger on it.]
- 564
- 00:34:06,318 --> 00:34:09,418
- [But there was a flaw and I called up
- my partner and said:]
- 565
- 00:34:09,518 --> 00:34:11,538
- ["There's a flaw, we've got
- a limited amount of time,]
- 566
- 00:34:11,638 --> 00:34:13,758
- [We need to make our money and get out.]
- 567
- 00:34:14,118 --> 00:34:17,958
- Over the course of a year,
- a Chicago-based agent from the DHS
- 568
- 00:34:18,078 --> 00:34:21,378
- named Jared Der-Yeghiayan
- had been embedded in the Silk Road,
- 569
- 00:34:21,478 --> 00:34:25,238
- now posing as a high-ranking
- moderator named "cirrus."
- 570
- 00:34:25,358 --> 00:34:28,598
- With both the evidence connecting Ross
- to the launch of the Silk Road
- 571
- 00:34:28,718 --> 00:34:34,078
- and the incident with the fake IDs,
- Ross became one of the primary suspects.
- 572
- 00:34:34,398 --> 00:34:38,858
- On October 1st in a coordinated effort
- between Der-Yeghiayan from the DHS
- 573
- 00:34:38,958 --> 00:34:42,818
- and Tarbell's FBI squad,
- a sting operation was launched.
- 574
- 00:34:42,918 --> 00:34:47,418
- According to Der-Yeghiayan's testimony,
- he staked out Ross' new residence.
- 575
- 00:34:47,518 --> 00:34:49,538
- And using his pseudonym of cirrus,
- 576
- 00:34:49,638 --> 00:34:53,758
- Der-Yeghiayan initiated a conversation
- on the Silk Road with DPR.
- 577
- 00:34:53,878 --> 00:34:56,918
- Moments later,
- Ross went to the Glen Park Library,
- 578
- 00:34:57,038 --> 00:34:58,898
- apparently to use their Wi-Fi.
- 579
- 00:34:58,998 --> 00:35:02,978
- And when Der-Yeghiayan saw that DPR
- was logged back into the Silk Road,
- 580
- 00:35:03,078 --> 00:35:06,298
- he gave the order for Tarbell
- and his squad to move in.
- 581
- 00:35:06,398 --> 00:35:09,118
- It's an excitement that you
- couldn't even buy off Silk Road.
- 582
- 00:35:09,238 --> 00:35:11,678
- All the drugs you could buy
- on the site, you...
- 583
- 00:35:11,798 --> 00:35:15,357
- It's not the same excitement as catching
- the guy. It's an adrenaline rush.
- 584
- 00:35:15,837 --> 00:35:18,817
- Ross was apprehended
- before he could encrypt his laptop.
- 585
- 00:35:18,917 --> 00:35:21,817
- He was allegedly logged into
- a Silk Road administration panel
- 586
- 00:35:21,917 --> 00:35:24,897
- for customers needing DPR's attention.
- 587
- 00:35:24,997 --> 00:35:29,277
- He was a dream for drug users,
- because he was very technically adept
- 588
- 00:35:29,397 --> 00:35:34,237
- and he was able to hide both
- the website that he put together
- 589
- 00:35:34,357 --> 00:35:37,817
- and the actual sales of illegal drugs
- 590
- 00:35:37,917 --> 00:35:41,677
- that the drug sellers
- would... make on his website.
- 591
- 00:35:41,957 --> 00:35:45,077
- The Silk Road was seized and shut down,
- and charges were announced
- 592
- 00:35:45,197 --> 00:35:48,397
- against a number of core partners
- and vendors from the site.
- 593
- 00:35:48,757 --> 00:35:51,517
- Ross was held for over a month
- in a jail in Oakland,
- 594
- 00:35:51,637 --> 00:35:53,557
- awaiting extradition to New York.
- 595
- 00:35:54,037 --> 00:35:57,717
- Ross's family was able to raise
- over a million dollars for his bail.
- 596
- 00:35:57,917 --> 00:36:01,977
- But the prosecution argued that due
- to the alleged Murders-For-Hire,
- 597
- 00:36:02,077 --> 00:36:06,357
- Ross was too dangerous to release
- and so his bail was denied.
- 598
- 00:36:06,477 --> 00:36:08,017
- I thought it was the wrong decision.
- 599
- 00:36:08,117 --> 00:36:10,337
- He wouldn't have been a flight risk
- and he's never been
- 600
- 00:36:10,437 --> 00:36:12,257
- and is not a danger to anyone.
- 601
- 00:36:12,357 --> 00:36:18,317
- [For him to say "I'm gonna put a hit out
- on someone" is ludicrous.]
- 602
- 00:36:18,437 --> 00:36:23,077
- [I can understand it being one
- of these other DPR workers...]
- 603
- 00:36:23,637 --> 00:36:27,737
- [getting all egotistical
- and crazy and maniacal]
- 604
- 00:36:27,837 --> 00:36:31,237
- [and doing it, that I could see.]
- 605
- 00:36:31,357 --> 00:36:34,857
- There was more than one person
- using the DPR account?
- 606
- 00:36:34,957 --> 00:36:41,697
- [I believe it was at least 2 other people,
- if not 3 at one point.]
- 607
- 00:36:41,797 --> 00:36:47,517
- [It doesn't matter.
- That's why they're dredging up this hit.]
- 608
- 00:36:48,397 --> 00:36:51,077
- [Contract baloney.]
- 609
- 00:36:51,197 --> 00:36:54,957
- [But because of the involvement
- of a Senator and...]
- 610
- 00:36:55,917 --> 00:36:58,197
- [all that other shit
- they're gonna cook him.]
- 611
- 00:36:58,837 --> 00:37:03,157
- The data seized from the Silk Road servers
- included all internal private messages,
- 612
- 00:37:03,277 --> 00:37:06,797
- which revealed that many people
- collectively ran the site.
- 613
- 00:37:07,157 --> 00:37:09,377
- One vendor with the user name
- "Variety Jones"
- 614
- 00:37:09,477 --> 00:37:12,177
- was active from the beginning
- of the Silk Road.
- 615
- 00:37:12,277 --> 00:37:15,037
- Jones gave many of the orders
- for running the Silk Road,
- 616
- 00:37:15,157 --> 00:37:20,677
- even instructing the systems administrator
- to create the Dread Pirate Roberts persona.
- 617
- 00:37:20,997 --> 00:37:25,637
- But Ross Ulbricht remained
- the primary focus of the investigation.
- 618
- 00:37:25,997 --> 00:37:28,437
- Ross has been incarcerated for over a year
- 619
- 00:37:28,557 --> 00:37:32,157
- in the Metropolitan Detention Center
- in Brooklyn awaiting trial.
- 620
- 00:37:32,277 --> 00:37:35,557
- Six weeks of that time
- was in solitary confinement.
- 621
- 00:37:35,677 --> 00:37:39,757
- Ross plead not guilty and denies
- being the Dread Pirate Roberts.
- 622
- 00:37:39,877 --> 00:37:44,417
- His trial was set for November 10,
- 2014 in New York City.
- 623
- 00:37:44,517 --> 00:37:48,417
- If convicted, Ross faces
- a minimum sentence of 30 years
- 624
- 00:37:48,517 --> 00:37:52,197
- with a maximum sentence of life in prison.
- 625
- 00:37:52,357 --> 00:37:54,557
- Are you taking a video?
- 626
- 00:37:55,037 --> 00:37:57,597
- - Should we...
- - He's a hairy fucker.
- 627
- 00:37:57,717 --> 00:38:00,416
- These big guys are generally not too...
- 628
- 00:38:00,516 --> 00:38:02,956
- I would let him off somewhere.
- 629
- 00:38:03,076 --> 00:38:04,056
- Where is he?
- 630
- 00:38:04,156 --> 00:38:06,876
- You know, it's hard.
- It's hard on a family.
- 631
- 00:38:06,996 --> 00:38:09,756
- It really is, especially when
- you love that person so much
- 632
- 00:38:09,876 --> 00:38:11,456
- and you believe in them so much
- 633
- 00:38:11,556 --> 00:38:14,876
- and you have such a daunting
- Goliath of an opponent.
- 634
- 00:38:14,996 --> 00:38:17,396
- It's... challenging.
- 635
- 00:38:17,556 --> 00:38:20,736
- It's kind of like a death, in a way,
- when you go like, "No, that can't be true,"
- 636
- 00:38:20,836 --> 00:38:22,716
- and then you're like,
- "Oh, yeah, it's true."
- 637
- 00:38:22,836 --> 00:38:25,056
- And you go through that kind of shock.
- 638
- 00:38:25,156 --> 00:38:26,836
- His dad, my husband...
- 639
- 00:38:26,996 --> 00:38:29,816
- of course, he's trying to keep our business
- going so we have a livelihood.
- 640
- 00:38:29,916 --> 00:38:32,816
- And his sister is in... Australia
- 641
- 00:38:32,916 --> 00:38:34,736
- and she's been helping, too, from there.
- 642
- 00:38:34,836 --> 00:38:36,476
- I'm Ross' sister and I can tell you
- 643
- 00:38:36,596 --> 00:38:39,796
- he has been a man of his word
- and honor all his life.
- 644
- 00:38:39,916 --> 00:38:43,956
- I was shocked to hear the news of his
- arrest, but felt even more dismayed
- 645
- 00:38:44,076 --> 00:38:47,756
- at what the media was writing
- about him, not even knowing him.
- 646
- 00:38:49,316 --> 00:38:52,996
- You know, I read things by people
- who have not a clue who Ross really is.
- 647
- 00:38:55,276 --> 00:38:58,656
- He's been tried and convicted
- in the media.
- 648
- 00:38:58,756 --> 00:39:01,236
- Nothing has been proven at all.
- 649
- 00:39:01,556 --> 00:39:03,796
- I don't know what's happened to the
- presumption of innocence in this country,
- 650
- 00:39:03,916 --> 00:39:08,156
- but it is a constitutional right here
- that we are innocent until proven guilty.
- 651
- 00:39:08,276 --> 00:39:11,956
- Ross sent me this picture
- of himself about a week ago.
- 652
- 00:39:12,076 --> 00:39:14,876
- It was taken a couple
- of weeks ago in prison.
- 653
- 00:39:14,996 --> 00:39:18,336
- I guess sometimes they go around
- and take pictures for the families.
- 654
- 00:39:18,436 --> 00:39:20,416
- He is doing well...
- 655
- 00:39:20,516 --> 00:39:24,456
- as well as can be expected,
- of course, under the circumstances.
- 656
- 00:39:24,556 --> 00:39:27,856
- And finally, after five months of delays,
- 657
- 00:39:27,956 --> 00:39:32,736
- he has had access to the discovery,
- the evidence that the prosecution has.
- 658
- 00:39:32,836 --> 00:39:35,616
- And so he's been working
- very hard going through that.
- 659
- 00:39:35,716 --> 00:39:37,936
- We are asking the prosecution,
- 660
- 00:39:38,036 --> 00:39:41,636
- "How did you find the server,"
- and they're not saying.
- 661
- 00:39:42,116 --> 00:39:43,976
- We have to know how they found the server
- 662
- 00:39:44,076 --> 00:39:47,696
- in order to see if Ross' Fourth
- Amendment rights have been violated.
- 663
- 00:39:47,796 --> 00:39:51,796
- And how would anyone know if the evidence
- had been tampered with or anything else
- 664
- 00:39:51,916 --> 00:39:55,516
- if it's not revealed
- how they found the server?
- 665
- 00:39:55,636 --> 00:39:58,896
- There were 14 searches
- and seizures in this case,
- 666
- 00:39:58,996 --> 00:40:02,496
- which is a... a fishing expedition
- 667
- 00:40:02,596 --> 00:40:05,456
- into a person's total property.
- 668
- 00:40:05,556 --> 00:40:09,076
- Unlimited rummaging through all of
- their things to see what they can find.
- 669
- 00:40:09,236 --> 00:40:12,216
- When the criminal complaints
- first appeared in October,
- 670
- 00:40:12,316 --> 00:40:15,316
- I think the supporters
- of the Dread Pirate Roberts
- 671
- 00:40:15,436 --> 00:40:17,216
- and the Silk Road just scattered.
- 672
- 00:40:17,316 --> 00:40:20,916
- Because suddenly this thing that had
- seemed like an idealistic community
- 673
- 00:40:21,036 --> 00:40:25,536
- built around non-violence and...
- you know, libertarian free commerce,
- 674
- 00:40:25,636 --> 00:40:28,656
- suddenly seemed instead like
- this bloody criminal conspiracy.
- 675
- 00:40:28,756 --> 00:40:34,296
- And a guy who probably otherwise
- would have been a kind of...
- 676
- 00:40:34,396 --> 00:40:36,196
- political cause célèbre,
- 677
- 00:40:36,316 --> 00:40:40,056
- who would have had all of these
- supporters calling for his freedom,
- 678
- 00:40:40,156 --> 00:40:44,095
- instead was treated as a...
- was an immediate pariah.
- 679
- 00:40:44,195 --> 00:40:45,435
- He was seen as a criminal.
- 680
- 00:40:45,555 --> 00:40:49,575
- So there's a lot of... circumstantial...
- 681
- 00:40:49,675 --> 00:40:51,855
- evidence, if you want to call it that.
- 682
- 00:40:51,955 --> 00:40:54,775
- There's a lot of technical bits
- and pieces involved.
- 683
- 00:40:54,875 --> 00:40:56,815
- It got really crazy in the middle of that.
- 684
- 00:40:56,915 --> 00:40:59,635
- Sort of one thing is taking down
- this online drug market.
- 685
- 00:40:59,755 --> 00:41:03,135
- Another thing is pinning a number
- of Murders-For-Hires on top of it.
- 686
- 00:41:03,235 --> 00:41:05,055
- It just seems really, really far-fetched.
- 687
- 00:41:05,155 --> 00:41:08,775
- The 29-year-old seemingly
- clean-cut entrepreneur
- 688
- 00:41:08,875 --> 00:41:12,115
- was living a secret life
- as a digital drug lord.
- 689
- 00:41:12,235 --> 00:41:15,415
- They're claiming that he's living
- in a manner of a head of a cartel.
- 690
- 00:41:15,515 --> 00:41:18,235
- The distinctions between Ross Ulbricht
- and the head of a cartel,
- 691
- 00:41:18,355 --> 00:41:22,555
- you don't have to see too many movies to
- recognize what the differences are here.
- 692
- 00:41:22,835 --> 00:41:25,115
- Then when the indictment finally came out,
- 693
- 00:41:25,235 --> 00:41:29,055
- there were suddenly no charges around
- these Murder-For-Hire accusations,
- 694
- 00:41:29,155 --> 00:41:33,295
- only the drug trafficking and money
- laundering and computer hacking.
- 695
- 00:41:33,395 --> 00:41:38,075
- They had six charges. They used them
- against him to deprive him of bail
- 696
- 00:41:38,195 --> 00:41:42,655
- and yet two and a half months later...
- the prosecutor didn't indict him.
- 697
- 00:41:42,755 --> 00:41:46,615
- What they did instead was they
- called it an "uncharged crime."
- 698
- 00:41:46,715 --> 00:41:49,135
- Well, if something's a crime,
- don't you charge someone for it?
- 699
- 00:41:49,235 --> 00:41:52,415
- And if it's not a crime,
- why is it there...
- 700
- 00:41:52,515 --> 00:41:54,835
- Because it's prejudicial to a jury
- 701
- 00:41:54,955 --> 00:41:59,755
- to have that sitting there unproven
- just... just smearing him.
- 702
- 00:42:00,315 --> 00:42:05,135
- The portrayal they want
- is of someone who they could
- 703
- 00:42:05,235 --> 00:42:07,675
- present to a jury
- of not having redeeming value.
- 704
- 00:42:07,795 --> 00:42:10,775
- It's a way of poisoning the atmosphere
- 705
- 00:42:10,875 --> 00:42:14,575
- so that the jury doesn't focus
- on the allegations,
- 706
- 00:42:14,675 --> 00:42:17,755
- but focuses on this atmospheric
- that the government has created
- 707
- 00:42:17,875 --> 00:42:20,955
- that in some sense is a diversion
- appealing to the emotional aspect of it
- 708
- 00:42:21,075 --> 00:42:25,335
- so that if the proof is weak, the benefit
- of the doubt doesn't go to the defendant,
- 709
- 00:42:25,435 --> 00:42:27,555
- where it belongs,
- under the presumption of innocence,
- 710
- 00:42:27,675 --> 00:42:31,295
- but it goes to the government because there
- are these awful things lurking out there
- 711
- 00:42:31,395 --> 00:42:32,955
- which aren't part
- of what we're supposed to find.
- 712
- 00:42:33,075 --> 00:42:34,875
- The government doesn't have to
- prove them beyond a reasonable doubt,
- 713
- 00:42:34,995 --> 00:42:36,615
- but they've injected them in the case
- 714
- 00:42:36,715 --> 00:42:40,815
- in a way that is toxic
- to an impartial evaluation
- 715
- 00:42:40,915 --> 00:42:42,815
- of what the evidence
- is on the charged crimes.
- 716
- 00:42:42,915 --> 00:42:46,835
- So people come in with a preconceived notion
- and that's halfway there to guilt.
- 717
- 00:42:46,955 --> 00:42:51,615
- Previously, the Murder-For-Hire was in there
- as a charge and then it was dropped.
- 718
- 00:42:51,715 --> 00:42:53,335
- But it's not gone away.
- 719
- 00:42:53,435 --> 00:42:56,115
- It's included
- as what they call an overt act
- 720
- 00:42:56,235 --> 00:42:59,635
- in the conspiracy and to sell drugs.
- 721
- 00:42:59,755 --> 00:43:03,575
- And so they actually made it
- one of the things to support
- 722
- 00:43:03,675 --> 00:43:05,595
- the larger drug conspiracy
- 723
- 00:43:05,755 --> 00:43:08,915
- to either get a trial or get him to plead.
- 724
- 00:43:09,035 --> 00:43:12,235
- It seemed like this bait and switch
- that the government had accused him
- 725
- 00:43:12,355 --> 00:43:15,755
- in this almost informal way of murder
- 726
- 00:43:15,875 --> 00:43:19,735
- so that when he was charged with these
- non-violent crimes in the end,
- 727
- 00:43:19,835 --> 00:43:22,255
- he would still be seen
- as a violent criminal.
- 728
- 00:43:22,355 --> 00:43:24,915
- I think that that has
- really been effective in...
- 729
- 00:43:25,035 --> 00:43:28,435
- in coloring the portrait of Ross Ulbricht.
- 730
- 00:43:31,114 --> 00:43:32,854
- Ever since Ross' arrest,
- 731
- 00:43:32,954 --> 00:43:36,714
- he and his best friend Rene Pinnell
- have remained in regular contact.
- 732
- 00:43:37,074 --> 00:43:39,874
- Rene declined to give
- substantive interviews to the press
- 733
- 00:43:39,994 --> 00:43:42,874
- for fear they would be used
- against Ross in court,
- 734
- 00:43:42,994 --> 00:43:46,994
- but agreed to answer questions via email.
- 735
- 00:44:24,434 --> 00:44:28,114
- <i># I'm a little teapot, short and stout #</i>
- 736
- 00:44:28,234 --> 00:44:31,694
- <i># Here is my handle here is my spout #</i>
- 737
- 00:44:31,794 --> 00:44:35,214
- <i># When I get all steamed up
- hear me shout #</i>
- 738
- 00:44:35,314 --> 00:44:38,294
- <i># Tip me over and pour me out #</i>
- 739
- 00:44:38,394 --> 00:44:40,234
- Yay!
- 740
- 00:44:42,514 --> 00:44:44,474
- Because of the severity of the charges,
- 741
- 00:44:44,594 --> 00:44:47,574
- Ross was not able to grant
- an interview from prison,
- 742
- 00:44:47,674 --> 00:44:51,574
- which left only a scattering
- of his personal photographs and movies.
- 743
- 00:44:51,674 --> 00:44:54,654
- But from the exhaustive discussions
- with friends and family
- 744
- 00:44:54,754 --> 00:44:57,214
- and the public knowledge
- of Ross's trajectory
- 745
- 00:44:57,314 --> 00:45:01,754
- from Physics and Engineering major to running
- a small home-spun book-selling company,
- 746
- 00:45:01,874 --> 00:45:05,514
- it was difficult to understand how he could
- possibly have been the sole mastermind
- 747
- 00:45:05,634 --> 00:45:08,914
- of the Silk Road,
- a vast and complex Internet service
- 748
- 00:45:09,034 --> 00:45:11,994
- with over a million users worldwide.
- 749
- 00:45:12,114 --> 00:45:14,574
- Ross was certainly bright
- and studious with a deep interest
- 750
- 00:45:14,674 --> 00:45:18,674
- in libertarian economic theory, which
- clearly echoed the mandate and philosophy
- 751
- 00:45:18,794 --> 00:45:21,434
- of many of the posts
- of the Dread Pirate Roberts.
- 752
- 00:45:21,554 --> 00:45:24,474
- But he had no experience whatsoever
- in computer coding
- 753
- 00:45:24,594 --> 00:45:26,774
- or scaling large Internet companies.
- 754
- 00:45:26,874 --> 00:45:29,614
- So how did Ross connect
- to what little is truly known
- 755
- 00:45:29,714 --> 00:45:31,794
- about the Dread Pirate Roberts?
- 756
- 00:45:32,274 --> 00:45:35,274
- DPR was motivated
- by a pacifistic philosophy
- 757
- 00:45:35,474 --> 00:45:39,934
- and an agenda of creating victimless
- exchange and reduced harm in the drug trade.
- 758
- 00:45:40,034 --> 00:45:44,314
- This ethos would be embraced by the chief
- architects and vendors of the Silk Road
- 759
- 00:45:44,434 --> 00:45:47,214
- and reverberate
- through the entire community.
- 760
- 00:45:47,314 --> 00:45:49,734
- [There were quite a few people
- that I didn't sell to]
- 761
- 00:45:49,834 --> 00:45:55,234
- [just because I could tell that they were
- obviously not mature enough to handle]
- 762
- 00:45:55,354 --> 00:46:00,274
- [using these drugs, and didn't know enough.
- It was like "Go read first...]
- 763
- 00:46:00,394 --> 00:46:05,134
- ["go figure it out and then come back
- to me and I'll sell you something"]
- 764
- 00:46:05,234 --> 00:46:09,394
- ["but I'm not gonna pop your cherry
- and kill you, potentially."]
- 765
- 00:46:09,514 --> 00:46:13,954
- [The heroin in particular I was very careful
- about who I sold it to because...]
- 766
- 00:46:14,594 --> 00:46:19,113
- [it was not stepped on.
- It was the best heroin on Silk Road.]
- 767
- 00:46:19,673 --> 00:46:22,133
- The Silk Road appeared to be
- a successful experiment
- 768
- 00:46:22,233 --> 00:46:24,213
- in creating a pacifistic community,
- 769
- 00:46:24,313 --> 00:46:27,433
- overseen by a figurehead
- with a deep-rooted ideology.
- 770
- 00:46:27,713 --> 00:46:30,173
- But these core ideals
- of the Dread Pirate Roberts
- 771
- 00:46:30,273 --> 00:46:33,193
- were completely at odds
- with the Murder-For-Hire allegations.
- 772
- 00:46:33,473 --> 00:46:35,133
- Did DPR become corrupted
- 773
- 00:46:35,233 --> 00:46:39,513
- and turn his back on the mandate
- of non-violence and harm reduction?
- 774
- 00:46:39,633 --> 00:46:42,253
- Were there other people
- using the DPR account
- 775
- 00:46:42,353 --> 00:46:44,673
- who were responsible for these actions?
- 776
- 00:46:44,873 --> 00:46:46,613
- Or was there some other truth
- 777
- 00:46:46,713 --> 00:46:51,633
- behind these alleged murder hits
- that produced no victims?
- 778
- 00:46:58,513 --> 00:47:00,793
- We don't know the first piece of evidence
- 779
- 00:47:00,913 --> 00:47:05,173
- that lead the feds down
- this chain of investigation
- 780
- 00:47:05,273 --> 00:47:10,133
- to the San Francisco library
- where Ross Ulbricht was arrested.
- 781
- 00:47:10,233 --> 00:47:13,533
- All we know is that at some point
- they located the Silk Road servers
- 782
- 00:47:13,633 --> 00:47:16,893
- in a data center in Iceland
- and imaged them.
- 783
- 00:47:16,993 --> 00:47:20,793
- They copied all the data
- off of them, and seized them...
- 784
- 00:47:20,913 --> 00:47:22,833
- but we don't know
- how they found those servers.
- 785
- 00:47:22,953 --> 00:47:26,673
- The whole idea of the Silk Road was
- that it ran as a Tor-hidden service,
- 786
- 00:47:26,793 --> 00:47:29,533
- which means that Tor
- protected its physical location
- 787
- 00:47:29,633 --> 00:47:33,053
- and made it very difficult
- to locate the computers that ran it.
- 788
- 00:47:33,153 --> 00:47:38,973
- So the mystery of how the FBI,
- or the DEA, or possibly the NSA,
- 789
- 00:47:39,073 --> 00:47:41,613
- located those servers is still unsolved
- 790
- 00:47:41,713 --> 00:47:45,133
- and, in fact, hasn't been mentioned
- in any of the legal documents
- 791
- 00:47:45,233 --> 00:47:47,773
- surrounding Ross Ulbricht's trial.
- 792
- 00:47:47,873 --> 00:47:50,173
- I think his defense
- has seized on this as...
- 793
- 00:47:50,273 --> 00:47:52,853
- something that the government
- doesn't want to talk about.
- 794
- 00:47:52,953 --> 00:47:58,173
- And if that's the case, then it does raise
- these Fourth Amendment issues
- 795
- 00:47:58,273 --> 00:48:01,913
- of can the government use
- essentially hacking techniques
- 796
- 00:48:02,033 --> 00:48:05,133
- to dig up evidence on a criminal suspect?
- 797
- 00:48:05,233 --> 00:48:07,573
- And if so, what kinds
- of warrant do they need?
- 798
- 00:48:07,673 --> 00:48:10,333
- If in fact there was some kind
- of violation of the Fourth Amendment,
- 799
- 00:48:10,433 --> 00:48:13,573
- in that initial part of the investigation,
- 800
- 00:48:13,673 --> 00:48:17,753
- that really was the first clue
- that lead them down this entire chain
- 801
- 00:48:17,873 --> 00:48:19,213
- to the arrest of Ross Ulbricht,
- 802
- 00:48:19,313 --> 00:48:21,693
- it could be a giant problem
- for the prosecution
- 803
- 00:48:21,793 --> 00:48:26,433
- that then taints every other piece
- of evidence that they found subsequently.
- 804
- 00:48:27,313 --> 00:48:29,353
- The government has prosecuted
- other people for doing
- 805
- 00:48:29,473 --> 00:48:33,233
- essentially what the government
- did here, which is...
- 806
- 00:48:35,153 --> 00:48:39,253
- trying to get underneath
- the public face of a website.
- 807
- 00:48:39,353 --> 00:48:41,853
- And they have alleged
- that getting that information
- 808
- 00:48:41,953 --> 00:48:43,773
- that's not supposed
- to be publicly accessible
- 809
- 00:48:43,873 --> 00:48:48,333
- by sophisticated computer,
- inquiries or activities,
- 810
- 00:48:48,433 --> 00:48:52,133
- that that is a violation of federal law.
- 811
- 00:48:52,233 --> 00:48:54,573
- So here's... and that's why they always say,
- we didn't do anything wrong,
- 812
- 00:48:54,673 --> 00:48:57,893
- we didn't do anything in violation,
- but they really know what's at stake here,
- 813
- 00:48:57,993 --> 00:49:00,653
- because they've actually
- prosecuted people for the same thing.
- 814
- 00:49:00,753 --> 00:49:04,052
- And the government's affidavit,
- the affidavit from Agent Tarbell
- 815
- 00:49:04,152 --> 00:49:06,432
- about how they got
- to the Silk Road servers
- 816
- 00:49:06,552 --> 00:49:11,152
- has been met with incredulousness
- by the Internet community.
- 817
- 00:49:11,552 --> 00:49:14,292
- The Tarbell declaration,
- to put it politely,
- 818
- 00:49:14,392 --> 00:49:17,392
- seems vaguely disconnected from the truth.
- 819
- 00:49:17,512 --> 00:49:20,252
- If you, depending on which
- security expert you ask,
- 820
- 00:49:20,352 --> 00:49:25,612
- you will get it's vaguely disconnected
- to the truth to something filled with...
- 821
- 00:49:25,712 --> 00:49:28,412
- it is a massive pile of bovine excrement.
- 822
- 00:49:28,512 --> 00:49:32,372
- What Tarbell's story was is he was
- typing away at his computer,
- 823
- 00:49:32,472 --> 00:49:37,392
- visiting the Silk Road website and the
- CAPTCHA was transmitted in the clear,
- 824
- 00:49:37,512 --> 00:49:41,972
- and he somehow saw the IP packets
- go directly to the server.
- 825
- 00:49:42,072 --> 00:49:44,892
- And so he then connects to that server
- and gets the CAPTCHA.
- 826
- 00:49:44,992 --> 00:49:47,632
- Game over, they found the backend server.
- 827
- 00:49:47,752 --> 00:49:53,912
- Unfortunately, this was playing fast
- and loose with the truth.
- 828
- 00:49:54,032 --> 00:49:57,512
- Because the logs provided to the defense
- 829
- 00:49:57,632 --> 00:50:02,812
- show that what Tarbell found
- was not the CAPTCHA image,
- 830
- 00:50:02,912 --> 00:50:05,652
- but instead a php MyAdmin page.
- 831
- 00:50:05,752 --> 00:50:10,172
- The server was running some stuff
- over the clear, but not the CAPTCHA.
- 832
- 00:50:10,272 --> 00:50:15,632
- So Tarbell's story doesn't mesh
- with the FBI's own evidence.
- 833
- 00:50:16,312 --> 00:50:20,332
- They hacked the servers and with that access
- could essentially do whatever they wanted.
- 834
- 00:50:20,432 --> 00:50:23,472
- Given just the institutional pressure
- to take this thing down,
- 835
- 00:50:23,592 --> 00:50:26,112
- it's naive to think that they didn't.
- 836
- 00:50:28,032 --> 00:50:30,392
- Of course, it's on the table
- that this is how they discovered him.
- 837
- 00:50:30,512 --> 00:50:32,952
- He was dealing with Tor.
- He was dealing with all these technologies
- 838
- 00:50:33,072 --> 00:50:35,572
- which we know are the subject
- of NSA investigations,
- 839
- 00:50:35,672 --> 00:50:37,132
- as revealed by Edward Snowden.
- 840
- 00:50:37,232 --> 00:50:39,952
- It's at least reasonable to assume
- that there's been this kind
- 841
- 00:50:40,072 --> 00:50:43,372
- of parallel construction or interference
- or like not playing by the rules
- 842
- 00:50:43,472 --> 00:50:45,052
- that the state deals out
- for you to play with.
- 843
- 00:50:45,152 --> 00:50:48,472
- But then again,
- we all know that it deals the cards.
- 844
- 00:50:48,592 --> 00:50:50,952
- It runs the game anyway. It's not even...
- 845
- 00:50:51,072 --> 00:50:54,772
- It's naive to think that
- this wasn't an available option.
- 846
- 00:50:54,872 --> 00:51:00,032
- The issue is whether the agent
- could have done what he said he did.
- 847
- 00:51:00,152 --> 00:51:02,932
- The theory that's been
- brought forward in a testimony
- 848
- 00:51:03,032 --> 00:51:05,432
- by the individual agents that did it,
- 849
- 00:51:05,552 --> 00:51:08,572
- they were able to manipulate
- part of the server
- 850
- 00:51:08,672 --> 00:51:12,492
- to cough up an address
- that shouldn't have been given up
- 851
- 00:51:12,592 --> 00:51:14,772
- and that address came back to Iceland.
- 852
- 00:51:14,872 --> 00:51:19,192
- And that server there was hosting
- the Silk Road hidden service.
- 853
- 00:51:19,952 --> 00:51:22,332
- I think we're not gonna know
- till we go to trial
- 854
- 00:51:22,432 --> 00:51:24,112
- and we may never know for sure.
- 855
- 00:51:24,232 --> 00:51:27,012
- There's always this balance of...
- 856
- 00:51:27,112 --> 00:51:29,772
- trying to be forward leaning
- in your investigative techniques
- 857
- 00:51:29,872 --> 00:51:32,752
- and making sure that you don't
- trample on rights at the same time.
- 858
- 00:51:32,872 --> 00:51:36,412
- You wanna stay well within the bounds
- of your legal authority,
- 859
- 00:51:36,512 --> 00:51:40,852
- because if you step over the line,
- the evidence is gonna be tossed.
- 860
- 00:51:40,952 --> 00:51:44,112
- It's not gonna be admissible in court
- and you may wind up
- 861
- 00:51:44,232 --> 00:51:46,772
- jeopardizing the outcome
- of an entire investigation.
- 862
- 00:51:46,872 --> 00:51:49,011
- And so I think what agencies
- will try and do is...
- 863
- 00:51:49,111 --> 00:51:50,931
- they'll want to step right up to the line,
- 864
- 00:51:51,031 --> 00:51:54,871
- and maybe get a little bit of chalk
- on their toes, but don't step over it.
- 865
- 00:51:54,991 --> 00:51:58,991
- Ross' lawyer made a motion to dismiss
- the case based on the disputed seizure
- 866
- 00:51:59,111 --> 00:52:02,971
- of the Silk Road servers,
- arguing that admitting this material
- 867
- 00:52:03,071 --> 00:52:06,251
- not only violates his client's
- Fourth Amendment rights,
- 868
- 00:52:06,351 --> 00:52:10,551
- but would set a dangerous precedent
- for the rights to privacy of all citizens.
- 869
- 00:52:11,191 --> 00:52:14,251
- The judge, Katherine Forest,
- sided with the prosecution
- 870
- 00:52:14,351 --> 00:52:17,231
- stating that the Tarbell declaration
- was acceptable.
- 871
- 00:52:17,511 --> 00:52:19,951
- And the motion was denied.
- 872
- 00:52:24,991 --> 00:52:28,591
- Search and seizure law
- in the digital age is really...
- 873
- 00:52:28,711 --> 00:52:32,331
- doesn't have the limitations on it that...
- 874
- 00:52:32,431 --> 00:52:34,171
- it does in the physical space.
- 875
- 00:52:34,271 --> 00:52:38,011
- And we see it not only
- in the search and seizure laws,
- 876
- 00:52:38,111 --> 00:52:41,491
- like what is the standard upon which they
- can come and grab your computer?
- 877
- 00:52:41,591 --> 00:52:44,651
- What kind of searches can they do
- on your computer once they have it?
- 878
- 00:52:44,751 --> 00:52:46,991
- Do they just get everything?
- We see this at the border.
- 879
- 00:52:47,111 --> 00:52:48,651
- Or we see this at searches into arrests.
- 880
- 00:52:48,751 --> 00:52:53,111
- People now carry around smart phones
- that have their whole lives in them.
- 881
- 00:52:53,231 --> 00:52:57,251
- And if they get stopped,
- law enforcement is certainly right now
- 882
- 00:52:57,351 --> 00:53:00,531
- in a lot of places taking the position
- that absolutely anything that's connected,
- 883
- 00:53:00,631 --> 00:53:04,731
- that's on that device,
- including logging into your accounts
- 884
- 00:53:04,831 --> 00:53:07,991
- that you can log into from
- that device, is fair game.
- 885
- 00:53:08,111 --> 00:53:12,011
- If the prosecution gets away
- with this warrantless seizure
- 886
- 00:53:12,111 --> 00:53:15,731
- of Americans' data as well as
- all these other foreigners,
- 887
- 00:53:15,831 --> 00:53:17,951
- it could have a lasting precedent
- 888
- 00:53:18,071 --> 00:53:20,651
- for how the Fourth Amendment
- works in the digital age.
- 889
- 00:53:20,751 --> 00:53:25,211
- I think that that, in fact, may be the
- most lasting effect of the Silk Road.
- 890
- 00:53:25,311 --> 00:53:28,891
- Generally, what happens
- in the criminal law field
- 891
- 00:53:28,991 --> 00:53:33,451
- is that there's some case
- of major proportion
- 892
- 00:53:33,551 --> 00:53:36,851
- that is used as a means of changing rules,
- 893
- 00:53:36,951 --> 00:53:40,691
- or expanding exceptions
- to constitutional protections,
- 894
- 00:53:40,791 --> 00:53:42,891
- and once it's there,
- once the precedent is set,
- 895
- 00:53:42,991 --> 00:53:45,131
- it then trickles down
- very quickly and very easily
- 896
- 00:53:45,231 --> 00:53:48,951
- into all sorts of ordinary cases where,
- you know, the ends justify the means.
- 897
- 00:53:49,071 --> 00:53:51,811
- Then all of a sudden, it's now spread.
- 898
- 00:53:51,911 --> 00:53:55,631
- The average citizen may say, "Well,
- why is this important to me? Why do I care?
- 899
- 00:53:55,751 --> 00:53:58,991
- "I'm not buying drugs on the network. Nobody
- I know is buying drugs on the network,"
- 900
- 00:53:59,111 --> 00:54:00,331
- but it's not just about that.
- 901
- 00:54:00,431 --> 00:54:04,831
- We're a democracy and informed citizens...
- 902
- 00:54:05,551 --> 00:54:07,631
- understand they have a right to privacy
- 903
- 00:54:07,751 --> 00:54:12,571
- and that the Fourth Amendment protects
- against unreasonable searches and seizures.
- 904
- 00:54:12,671 --> 00:54:14,331
- Information has to be encrypted.
- 905
- 00:54:14,431 --> 00:54:18,231
- And that goes from a large corporation
- down to an individual.
- 906
- 00:54:18,351 --> 00:54:23,291
- And so for those who are arguing that
- information should not be encrypted,
- 907
- 00:54:23,391 --> 00:54:28,471
- certainly that makes it easier
- for law enforcement to... combat,
- 908
- 00:54:28,591 --> 00:54:32,131
- but it also makes it easier
- for the cyber criminals to attack.
- 909
- 00:54:32,231 --> 00:54:35,410
- It makes total sense that criminals
- are among the early wave,
- 910
- 00:54:35,510 --> 00:54:38,830
- along with the sort of paranoid people,
- of these new tools and services.
- 911
- 00:54:38,950 --> 00:54:41,710
- But that doesn't mean that they're
- the only people using these services.
- 912
- 00:54:41,830 --> 00:54:43,890
- There are a hell of a lot
- of journalists that I know
- 913
- 00:54:43,990 --> 00:54:46,390
- and regularly communicate
- with now over Tor.
- 914
- 00:54:46,510 --> 00:54:49,890
- But you know, for the people
- who oppose this technology,
- 915
- 00:54:49,990 --> 00:54:52,630
- who see it as a threat,
- the fact that criminals use it
- 916
- 00:54:52,750 --> 00:54:55,250
- is a great way to demonize it.
- 917
- 00:54:55,350 --> 00:54:57,430
- I definitely do believe
- that there are people in the US
- 918
- 00:54:57,550 --> 00:54:59,890
- that don't think that the government
- is doing anything wrong.
- 919
- 00:54:59,990 --> 00:55:03,530
- It's not necessarily something that you're
- concerned with or that you care too much about
- 920
- 00:55:03,630 --> 00:55:07,250
- or that you're really passionate about until
- you're standing right in the middle of it.
- 921
- 00:55:07,350 --> 00:55:11,410
- And it's something more dangerous
- than any website could ever be
- 922
- 00:55:11,510 --> 00:55:14,570
- is what our government has become
- and how they operate.
- 923
- 00:55:14,670 --> 00:55:17,910
- This goes back to that question of the
- government kind of trying to treat the Internet
- 924
- 00:55:18,030 --> 00:55:23,070
- differently without following
- the same kind of judicial processes.
- 925
- 00:55:23,190 --> 00:55:26,110
- Well, the Supreme Court has proven
- that they do not agree.
- 926
- 00:55:26,350 --> 00:55:31,030
- You know, recently with Riley vs California
- with an illegal search of a cell phone.
- 927
- 00:55:31,430 --> 00:55:36,730
- Precedent can be set that will limit
- their ability to infringe on our rights.
- 928
- 00:55:36,830 --> 00:55:41,370
- Someone asked how
- her political views have shifted.
- 929
- 00:55:41,470 --> 00:55:45,170
- Because suddenly she's standing
- right in the middle of Tor,
- 930
- 00:55:45,270 --> 00:55:50,290
- Bitcoin, the war on drugs,
- online anonymity, encryption.
- 931
- 00:55:50,390 --> 00:55:53,690
- And she's had a... she's had
- to learn a lot of different things,
- 932
- 00:55:53,790 --> 00:55:57,370
- and also not only
- just the whole legal system but...
- 933
- 00:55:57,470 --> 00:56:00,590
- everything around
- the technology and the case.
- 934
- 00:56:02,510 --> 00:56:06,610
- After over a year in prison,
- Ross delayed the trial two months,
- 935
- 00:56:06,710 --> 00:56:10,050
- stating that important discovery evidence
- he needed to examine
- 936
- 00:56:10,150 --> 00:56:13,350
- had only just been delivered
- to him by the prosecution.
- 937
- 00:56:13,950 --> 00:56:16,770
- The FBI shut down what it calls
- the most sophisticated
- 938
- 00:56:16,870 --> 00:56:19,730
- and extensive criminal marketplace
- on the Internet,
- 939
- 00:56:19,830 --> 00:56:22,270
- but it may be finding new life.
- 940
- 00:56:22,430 --> 00:56:25,610
- The arrest of Ross Ulbricht
- and closure of the Silk Road
- 941
- 00:56:25,710 --> 00:56:28,690
- did nothing to hamper
- drug sales on the dark net.
- 942
- 00:56:28,790 --> 00:56:30,970
- Many new markets immediately appeared,
- 943
- 00:56:31,070 --> 00:56:33,970
- including a re-launch
- of the Silk Road itself,
- 944
- 00:56:34,070 --> 00:56:38,010
- also run by someone calling themselves
- the Dread Pirate Roberts.
- 945
- 00:56:38,110 --> 00:56:41,790
- And like its predecessor, the second
- Silk Road also claimed a mandate
- 946
- 00:56:41,910 --> 00:56:45,370
- of reducing violence and harm
- in drug transactions.
- 947
- 00:56:45,470 --> 00:56:50,390
- The Dread Pirate tweets, "Silk Road while
- under my watch will never harm a soul.
- 948
- 00:56:50,510 --> 00:56:53,970
- If we did, then we are no better
- than the thugs on the street."
- 949
- 00:56:54,070 --> 00:56:58,390
- The new Dread Pirate Roberts told me
- that he knows he can't be around forever,
- 950
- 00:56:58,510 --> 00:57:01,490
- and when he's gone, someone else...
- 951
- 00:57:01,590 --> 00:57:04,210
- he's confident someone else
- will step up and fill the void.
- 952
- 00:57:04,310 --> 00:57:07,530
- You can take down the man,
- but you can't take down the idea.
- 953
- 00:57:07,630 --> 00:57:11,770
- By this time, statistics appeared
- claiming the first Silk Road had succeeded
- 954
- 00:57:11,870 --> 00:57:15,870
- in its mission of reducing
- violence in the drug trade.
- 955
- 00:57:21,789 --> 00:57:24,989
- While I was with the Baltimore
- Police Department in the early 2000s,
- 956
- 00:57:25,109 --> 00:57:30,109
- I had two city officers in uniform
- killed by drug dealers on the street.
- 957
- 00:57:30,509 --> 00:57:34,889
- And there was a family of seven,
- the Dawson family on Preston Street,
- 958
- 00:57:34,989 --> 00:57:39,789
- they were killed by one drug dealer in
- one night, mother, father and five kids.
- 959
- 00:57:41,549 --> 00:57:45,609
- And so as the years in the early
- 2000s start moving along,
- 960
- 00:57:45,709 --> 00:57:49,869
- I'm continuing to think about this
- from a place of violence
- 961
- 00:57:50,229 --> 00:57:53,589
- and beginning to realize that
- our policies of drug prohibition
- 962
- 00:57:53,709 --> 00:57:56,489
- were actually counterproductive
- to public safety.
- 963
- 00:57:56,589 --> 00:57:59,989
- The one thing that I signed on
- for to improve,
- 964
- 00:58:00,109 --> 00:58:03,889
- to better public safety in our
- neighborhoods, was making it worse.
- 965
- 00:58:03,989 --> 00:58:06,989
- And... I found
- 966
- 00:58:07,109 --> 00:58:11,989
- a large number of police officers and judges
- and criminal prosecutors and...
- 967
- 00:58:12,109 --> 00:58:16,629
- DEA agents and FBI who think the same way.
- 968
- 00:58:16,749 --> 00:58:20,369
- If Baltimore moved
- from street corners to online services,
- 969
- 00:58:20,469 --> 00:58:22,409
- oh, my God, do you know
- how many shootings,
- 970
- 00:58:22,509 --> 00:58:26,729
- how many fewer shootings we would have
- every year, which equate to fewer homicides?
- 971
- 00:58:26,829 --> 00:58:30,109
- Number one, it removes the... the buyer...
- 972
- 00:58:30,709 --> 00:58:33,389
- from the back alleys
- and from the street corners
- 973
- 00:58:33,509 --> 00:58:36,949
- and from those dangerous places
- of dealing with the seller.
- 974
- 00:58:37,069 --> 00:58:39,449
- Buying it over the Internet
- where it's delivered to you,
- 975
- 00:58:39,549 --> 00:58:41,209
- removes you from that scenario.
- 976
- 00:58:41,309 --> 00:58:44,749
- One of the interesting things
- that having an online market does
- 977
- 00:58:44,869 --> 00:58:47,569
- is that it makes sellers
- much more accountable to buyers.
- 978
- 00:58:47,669 --> 00:58:50,509
- And one of the really interesting innovations
- is the whole review system,
- 979
- 00:58:50,829 --> 00:58:54,049
- where buyers can review
- the sellers and the items
- 980
- 00:58:54,149 --> 00:58:58,009
- that they bought from these
- on these market places.
- 981
- 00:58:58,109 --> 00:59:02,249
- And what that does is it makes sellers
- more accountable and it lets buyers...
- 982
- 00:59:02,349 --> 00:59:05,809
- it gives buyers a way
- to assess both the quality,
- 983
- 00:59:05,909 --> 00:59:08,529
- the purity and the potency
- of the drugs they're getting.
- 984
- 00:59:08,629 --> 00:59:12,389
- It makes these transactions
- much more safe for the buyers.
- 985
- 00:59:12,869 --> 00:59:16,849
- But we're shutting them down,
- attempting to shut them down,
- 986
- 00:59:16,949 --> 00:59:19,069
- because we will never shut them down.
- 987
- 00:59:20,029 --> 00:59:23,349
- We've been at this drug war now
- for over four decades,
- 988
- 00:59:23,469 --> 00:59:24,909
- and what has happened since then?
- 989
- 00:59:25,029 --> 00:59:29,309
- At the beginning, it was just the cartels
- and organized crime making a ton of money.
- 990
- 00:59:29,589 --> 00:59:34,089
- Today, they make globally
- $322 billion off this industry.
- 991
- 00:59:34,189 --> 00:59:36,649
- Corporate America's also now in the game.
- 992
- 00:59:36,749 --> 00:59:40,629
- Private prisons, okay?
- Corrections Corporation of America.
- 993
- 00:59:40,749 --> 00:59:46,089
- About a year ago they gave out $675 million
- in dividends to the shareholders.
- 994
- 00:59:46,189 --> 00:59:50,509
- Drug testing companies. It's now become
- a multi-billion-dollar industry.
- 995
- 00:59:50,789 --> 00:59:52,269
- And who gets tested?
- 996
- 00:59:52,389 --> 00:59:56,689
- Those who are in prison or under the
- control of our criminal justice programs...
- 997
- 00:59:56,789 --> 00:59:58,109
- on parole and probation.
- 998
- 00:59:58,229 --> 01:00:00,249
- So corporate America's
- making a lot of money.
- 999
- 01:00:00,349 --> 01:00:03,469
- What about law enforcement?
- Law enforcement's making a ton of money.
- 1000
- 01:00:03,589 --> 01:00:05,768
- The government's 1033 Program, you know,
- 1001
- 01:00:05,868 --> 01:00:09,048
- where we get armored vehicles
- and machine guns
- 1002
- 01:00:09,148 --> 01:00:12,668
- and whatever we want
- of the surplus military equipment...
- 1003
- 01:00:12,788 --> 01:00:14,168
- that's because of the drug war.
- 1004
- 01:00:14,268 --> 01:00:16,468
- Over the years we've seen these...
- 1005
- 01:00:16,588 --> 01:00:19,848
- these huge bureaucracies
- build up around the drug war,
- 1006
- 01:00:19,948 --> 01:00:22,808
- around prosecuting the drug war.
- You've got the Drug Enforcement Agency.
- 1007
- 01:00:22,908 --> 01:00:25,528
- You've got the Office
- of National Drug Control Policy.
- 1008
- 01:00:25,628 --> 01:00:29,948
- So a lot of the opposition is just
- rooted in self interest
- 1009
- 01:00:30,068 --> 01:00:33,168
- among places like the FBI and the DEA,
- 1010
- 01:00:33,268 --> 01:00:36,508
- where if you're telling somebody
- who's been in the FBI for 30 years
- 1011
- 01:00:36,628 --> 01:00:40,488
- that drugs are no longer a priority,
- that's an existential threat to them.
- 1012
- 01:00:40,588 --> 01:00:43,008
- That kind of takes away
- their whole reason for existence.
- 1013
- 01:00:43,108 --> 01:00:47,248
- You really have to think about
- the danger of some of these drugs,
- 1014
- 01:00:47,348 --> 01:00:50,808
- the severe danger of addiction,
- 1015
- 01:00:50,908 --> 01:00:53,808
- the havoc that it, you know,
- that it reaps on families
- 1016
- 01:00:53,908 --> 01:00:57,668
- and, you know,
- and children, and... careers.
- 1017
- 01:00:57,788 --> 01:01:01,168
- And so to say that, you know,
- we need to step back and liberalize,
- 1018
- 01:01:01,268 --> 01:01:04,368
- well, but you... that's one
- approach you can take,
- 1019
- 01:01:04,468 --> 01:01:06,348
- but then you've got to look
- at a cause and effect.
- 1020
- 01:01:06,468 --> 01:01:10,468
- If we do this, what are the second
- and third order effects?
- 1021
- 01:01:13,348 --> 01:01:15,428
- The FBI, our federal government,
- they're gonna go in
- 1022
- 01:01:15,548 --> 01:01:19,328
- and they're shutting these places down.
- But you know what? New ones just open up.
- 1023
- 01:01:19,428 --> 01:01:21,128
- 'Cause there's so much money to be made.
- 1024
- 01:01:21,228 --> 01:01:25,828
- They'll continue to open up,
- and it's just a dog chasing its tail.
- 1025
- 01:01:35,308 --> 01:01:39,068
- We're a team, and we've been working
- on this thing together right from the start.
- 1026
- 01:01:40,668 --> 01:01:45,328
- The way it's affected me is in some ways
- very much the same as it affects Lyn,
- 1027
- 01:01:45,428 --> 01:01:48,468
- but I don't have to go out there
- and talk to reporters.
- 1028
- 01:01:48,588 --> 01:01:51,508
- And we've... we've kind
- of set it up that way.
- 1029
- 01:01:51,628 --> 01:01:55,688
- It's hard enough having your...
- your loved one in prison,
- 1030
- 01:01:55,788 --> 01:02:00,128
- but then the whole media thing is,
- it definitely adds pressure.
- 1031
- 01:02:00,228 --> 01:02:03,288
- I've known for a long time that the media
- 1032
- 01:02:03,388 --> 01:02:07,788
- wasn't reporting the whole story,
- that it was skewed.
- 1033
- 01:02:08,188 --> 01:02:14,188
- I see what Lyn and I are doing
- as a... as a pushback to that.
- 1034
- 01:02:15,988 --> 01:02:20,108
- Ross has been in there a year
- and he's avoided all violence,
- 1035
- 01:02:20,228 --> 01:02:22,728
- even though it's been around him.
- 1036
- 01:02:22,828 --> 01:02:25,588
- That has matured him for sure.
- 1037
- 01:02:26,188 --> 01:02:31,308
- The fact that he's come out of this
- unscathed so far, speaks volumes.
- 1038
- 01:02:31,748 --> 01:02:35,508
- He seems serious.
- You know, there's a lot at stake.
- 1039
- 01:02:35,628 --> 01:02:39,428
- He's... feeling good
- that we got the extension.
- 1040
- 01:02:39,548 --> 01:02:42,228
- He had this mountain
- of stuff to go through
- 1041
- 01:02:42,348 --> 01:02:45,548
- and I felt like he was
- running out the clock.
- 1042
- 01:02:45,788 --> 01:02:48,788
- And now they have that extra
- two months has made...
- 1043
- 01:02:48,908 --> 01:02:51,407
- has been "essential" is the word he used.
- 1044
- 01:02:51,507 --> 01:02:53,967
- And so I think he feels that, you know,
- 1045
- 01:02:54,067 --> 01:02:57,187
- he's much more prepared and ready.
- 1046
- 01:02:57,387 --> 01:03:01,827
- Yeah, he says he's ready for trial.
- He's ready to go in there and win.
- 1047
- 01:03:03,947 --> 01:03:07,147
- I have also matured in this last year.
- 1048
- 01:03:07,267 --> 01:03:12,067
- Matured in my thinking
- about ethics, politics.
- 1049
- 01:03:12,587 --> 01:03:17,747
- When I became more and more aware
- of what the drug war was doing,
- 1050
- 01:03:17,867 --> 01:03:19,527
- the tragedy.
- 1051
- 01:03:19,627 --> 01:03:23,627
- So many people have been
- victimized by the drug war.
- 1052
- 01:03:23,747 --> 01:03:27,987
- It's a giant mess
- and it's a story that needs telling.
- 1053
- 01:03:28,107 --> 01:03:32,787
- And we've got a pulpit,
- in a way, to tell it from.
- 1054
- 01:03:32,907 --> 01:03:36,407
- It's so weird to be doing
- all this and it's...
- 1055
- 01:03:36,507 --> 01:03:38,727
- distracting and it's challenging
- 1056
- 01:03:38,827 --> 01:03:41,767
- and you wanna do the right thing,
- and then it's all about Ross.
- 1057
- 01:03:41,867 --> 01:03:44,887
- And then we go and we see him
- and hug him and talk to him
- 1058
- 01:03:44,987 --> 01:03:48,207
- and hold his hand
- and it's just like Ross, you know?
- 1059
- 01:03:48,307 --> 01:03:52,307
- It's such a disconnect, and...
- it's just so hard to see him in there.
- 1060
- 01:03:58,227 --> 01:04:01,687
- Being in the prison, visiting,
- it's a very emotional experience,
- 1061
- 01:04:01,787 --> 01:04:05,127
- because there are all these families there
- 1062
- 01:04:05,227 --> 01:04:09,007
- and they get to see
- their loved one one hour a week.
- 1063
- 01:04:09,107 --> 01:04:11,407
- And so they're soaking each other up.
- 1064
- 01:04:11,507 --> 01:04:14,407
- And you're in a room of 150 people,
- 1065
- 01:04:14,507 --> 01:04:16,967
- sitting side-by-side, tight-packed.
- 1066
- 01:04:17,067 --> 01:04:20,627
- And... there's just all this emotion
- 1067
- 01:04:20,747 --> 01:04:23,067
- saturating the atmosphere.
- 1068
- 01:04:34,427 --> 01:04:37,907
- The prisoners have segregated themselves.
- 1069
- 01:04:38,587 --> 01:04:42,027
- But as loved ones coming to visit...
- 1070
- 01:04:42,147 --> 01:04:46,747
- there's no sense of, segregation...
- race at all.
- 1071
- 01:04:47,827 --> 01:04:52,227
- We're just 150 people
- whose hearts are breaking.
- 1072
- 01:05:07,747 --> 01:05:10,607
- Of all the Snowden disclosures
- that have come out to date,
- 1073
- 01:05:10,707 --> 01:05:13,487
- the one that will have
- the greatest long-term impact
- 1074
- 01:05:13,587 --> 01:05:16,727
- is the revelation that the NSA
- has been subverting
- 1075
- 01:05:16,827 --> 01:05:19,787
- cryptographic standards and making
- the Internet less secure.
- 1076
- 01:05:20,147 --> 01:05:22,107
- That disclosure, those articles,
- 1077
- 01:05:22,227 --> 01:05:25,487
- have radicalized
- a new generation of cryptographers,
- 1078
- 01:05:25,587 --> 01:05:27,567
- a new generation of computer scientists
- 1079
- 01:05:27,667 --> 01:05:30,927
- who are now intent
- upon building tools and services
- 1080
- 01:05:31,027 --> 01:05:34,307
- that can withstand pervasive
- government surveillance.
- 1081
- 01:05:34,507 --> 01:05:38,246
- Did you see our wireless
- from Barclay's Bank?
- 1082
- 01:05:38,346 --> 01:05:40,786
- They like Bitcoin,
- so they're supporting our work.
- 1083
- 01:05:40,906 --> 01:05:44,986
- They're providing us
- with free Wi-Fi from the bank.
- 1084
- 01:05:47,106 --> 01:05:49,266
- In the fall of 2014,
- 1085
- 01:05:49,386 --> 01:05:51,606
- as Ross was preparing for his trial,
- 1086
- 01:05:51,706 --> 01:05:54,066
- a group of hackers,
- programmers and activists
- 1087
- 01:05:54,186 --> 01:05:56,826
- met in a squat in the center of London.
- 1088
- 01:05:57,066 --> 01:06:00,326
- This gathering represented
- the next wave of the dark net,
- 1089
- 01:06:00,426 --> 01:06:03,246
- developing new and evolved
- cryptographic tools
- 1090
- 01:06:03,346 --> 01:06:05,966
- that would not be so easily shut down.
- 1091
- 01:06:06,066 --> 01:06:07,946
- Open source is incredibly powerful.
- 1092
- 01:06:08,066 --> 01:06:11,566
- Open source is responsible
- for WikiLeaks, Wikipedia, Linux,
- 1093
- 01:06:11,666 --> 01:06:16,446
- which runs all of our infrastructure,
- for Firefox, for Bit Torrent,
- 1094
- 01:06:16,546 --> 01:06:19,666
- for Bitcoin, for all of these...
- for encryption,
- 1095
- 01:06:19,786 --> 01:06:23,306
- for all of these real uses
- of tech... not the yuppie...
- 1096
- 01:06:23,426 --> 01:06:26,726
- Angry Birds or silly apps that...
- 1097
- 01:06:26,826 --> 01:06:28,426
- these people, make, you know?
- 1098
- 01:06:28,546 --> 01:06:33,206
- Open source is also an example
- of how we can organize economically,
- 1099
- 01:06:33,306 --> 01:06:36,806
- an example for the future,
- to build the products we need
- 1100
- 01:06:36,906 --> 01:06:39,506
- without needing proprietary industry,
- 1101
- 01:06:39,626 --> 01:06:42,326
- without needing the points of control,
- 1102
- 01:06:42,426 --> 01:06:46,706
- without needing masters
- and slaves and babysitters.
- 1103
- 01:06:47,226 --> 01:06:51,086
- It's not enough to build
- privacy-preserving tools.
- 1104
- 01:06:51,186 --> 01:06:54,646
- It's not enough to write
- revolutionary research papers
- 1105
- 01:06:54,746 --> 01:06:58,066
- and design amazing
- cryptographic primitives.
- 1106
- 01:06:58,186 --> 01:07:00,806
- You have to get them
- into the hands of the users.
- 1107
- 01:07:00,906 --> 01:07:03,946
- And I think in the future
- what you'll find is that...
- 1108
- 01:07:04,066 --> 01:07:08,446
- tools like Tor, tools like OTR,
- like PGP, like Bitcoin
- 1109
- 01:07:08,546 --> 01:07:11,326
- will be built into the services
- and applications that you use
- 1110
- 01:07:11,426 --> 01:07:13,966
- and you won't know they're there.
- 1111
- 01:07:14,066 --> 01:07:18,326
- We want to empower the individual,
- protect the small guy.
- 1112
- 01:07:18,426 --> 01:07:21,046
- We have a mistrust of central authority.
- 1113
- 01:07:21,146 --> 01:07:23,346
- We believe in freedom of information.
- 1114
- 01:07:23,466 --> 01:07:27,766
- First of all, we have the centralized
- drug marketplace, Silk Road.
- 1115
- 01:07:27,866 --> 01:07:30,026
- Governments went in and shut that down.
- 1116
- 01:07:30,226 --> 01:07:33,606
- And then up sprouted dozens of different,
- 1117
- 01:07:33,706 --> 01:07:35,786
- centralized drug markets.
- 1118
- 01:07:35,906 --> 01:07:39,846
- And in a game of whack a mole,
- they shut down one and now there's dozens.
- 1119
- 01:07:39,946 --> 01:07:42,986
- And now we're entering the realm
- of decentralized drug markets,
- 1120
- 01:07:43,106 --> 01:07:45,966
- with no central operator,
- no central point of control.
- 1121
- 01:07:46,066 --> 01:07:47,586
- What are they gonna do?
- 1122
- 01:07:50,266 --> 01:07:52,366
- They're gonna continue
- to do these kinds of things,
- 1123
- 01:07:52,466 --> 01:07:54,586
- and even if it's a distributed network,
- 1124
- 01:07:54,906 --> 01:07:58,126
- peer-to-peer is worked continuously by
- 1125
- 01:07:58,226 --> 01:08:00,186
- the... state and local
- law enforcement agencies.
- 1126
- 01:08:00,506 --> 01:08:03,066
- And they arrest people every week.
- 1127
- 01:08:03,546 --> 01:08:06,346
- On November 6, 2014,
- 1128
- 01:08:06,466 --> 01:08:08,586
- law enforcement agencies around the world
- 1129
- 01:08:08,706 --> 01:08:12,006
- launched a coordinated effort
- called "Operation Onymous,"
- 1130
- 01:08:12,106 --> 01:08:16,406
- seizing hundreds of dark net sites,
- including the re-launch of the Silk Road.
- 1131
- 01:08:16,506 --> 01:08:19,266
- Bruce Schneier, the cryptographer,
- once said to me,
- 1132
- 01:08:19,626 --> 01:08:22,245
- "You know, in this cat and mouse game,
- the mice will win in the end,
- 1133
- 01:08:22,345 --> 01:08:26,985
- but the cats will be well fed."
- I think that that's the way to see it.
- 1134
- 01:08:27,945 --> 01:08:30,445
- This game is going to continue forever.
- 1135
- 01:08:30,545 --> 01:08:33,665
- [They're always reacting to us...]
- 1136
- 01:08:36,465 --> 01:08:37,325
- [which is fine.]
- 1137
- 01:08:37,425 --> 01:08:39,645
- [But once they're reacted
- and they've shored up]
- 1138
- 01:08:39,745 --> 01:08:43,565
- [and they've figured out "this is the new
- defenses, you're not getting past this one."]
- 1139
- 01:08:43,665 --> 01:08:46,205
- [We're just gonna sit there
- and pick at it and get around it again]
- 1140
- 01:08:46,305 --> 01:08:49,625
- [We're always gonna win.
- We're always gonna win.]
- 1141
- 01:08:50,145 --> 01:08:51,925
- There's a reason the Silk Road
- was so powerful.
- 1142
- 01:08:52,025 --> 01:08:54,785
- And I know the cryptos now are writing
- the kind of automatic Silk Road,
- 1143
- 01:08:54,905 --> 01:08:55,985
- and Amir helped do this.
- 1144
- 01:08:56,105 --> 01:08:59,425
- This is now the peer-to-peer model where
- there's no one individual administrator.
- 1145
- 01:08:59,785 --> 01:09:03,025
- And seeing that as the weak point,
- technically speaking, this is all correct.
- 1146
- 01:09:03,145 --> 01:09:05,425
- But there's something kind of...
- 1147
- 01:09:05,545 --> 01:09:08,225
- I don't want to make him a hero, like a...
- 1148
- 01:09:09,225 --> 01:09:11,305
- I don't want to say that he's a hero.
- But you know...
- 1149
- 01:09:11,425 --> 01:09:13,865
- DPR recognized what was at stake
- 1150
- 01:09:13,985 --> 01:09:17,685
- and he was willing to do the things that most
- of the libertarians weren't willing to do,
- 1151
- 01:09:17,785 --> 01:09:19,925
- because he was serious about...
- 1152
- 01:09:20,025 --> 01:09:22,825
- I think what the Silk Road meant.
- 1153
- 01:09:24,025 --> 01:09:25,725
- Three weeks before the trial,
- 1154
- 01:09:25,825 --> 01:09:29,085
- the issue of the Murders-For-Hire
- suddenly resurfaced.
- 1155
- 01:09:29,185 --> 01:09:32,165
- The prosecution announced
- that due to these allegations,
- 1156
- 01:09:32,265 --> 01:09:36,565
- they would not allow Ross's defense to know
- the identities of their witnesses.
- 1157
- 01:09:36,665 --> 01:09:39,405
- The defense responded that using
- these uncharged crimes
- 1158
- 01:09:39,505 --> 01:09:41,265
- in these manner was prejudicial.
- 1159
- 01:09:42,225 --> 01:09:45,585
- A hearing was called
- to resolve the matter.
- 1160
- 01:09:48,185 --> 01:09:52,085
- The judge ruled that some of the witnesses
- won't be made available to the defense
- 1161
- 01:09:52,185 --> 01:09:54,465
- until right before the trial.
- 1162
- 01:09:54,905 --> 01:09:59,025
- It's based on her saying
- that Ross might intimidate
- 1163
- 01:09:59,145 --> 01:10:03,305
- or even murder people... from jail.
- 1164
- 01:10:11,945 --> 01:10:15,145
- When all this first happened, I said,
- well, it would still have been necessary
- 1165
- 01:10:15,265 --> 01:10:19,025
- to say that, well, this man's a murderer
- and he was only out for his own gain.
- 1166
- 01:10:19,145 --> 01:10:23,345
- You know, he had... what do you call it,
- a callous disregard for human life.
- 1167
- 01:10:23,465 --> 01:10:26,425
- It's necessary to paint a figure
- that way rather than to make him...
- 1168
- 01:10:26,545 --> 01:10:30,105
- you know, a martyr of the war on drugs.
- I think that's just good planning.
- 1169
- 01:10:30,425 --> 01:10:33,865
- I think it's gonna be difficult...
- to have a fair trial.
- 1170
- 01:10:33,985 --> 01:10:38,125
- If you are innocent until proven guilty,
- then with all the evidence
- 1171
- 01:10:38,225 --> 01:10:41,805
- and all the stories that have been written,
- I think it's gonna be really difficult to...
- 1172
- 01:10:41,905 --> 01:10:48,065
- to find people who are not influenced
- by any of this at all going into it.
- 1173
- 01:11:02,265 --> 01:11:05,925
- The day before the trial,
- Ross provided a written statement.
- 1174
- 01:11:06,025 --> 01:11:10,024
- It was the closest anyone would
- ever get to an actual interview.
- 1175
- 01:11:11,104 --> 01:11:16,704
- [Throughout my adult life
- I've tried to stay positive...]
- 1176
- 01:11:19,544 --> 01:11:24,664
- [and it's even more important
- to do that now.]
- 1177
- 01:11:27,304 --> 01:11:32,104
- [I'm up against
- a very powerful adversary.]
- 1178
- 01:11:35,624 --> 01:11:39,104
- [You know, it's all too easy to think...]
- 1179
- 01:11:42,384 --> 01:11:45,664
- [that things are hopeless and to give up.]
- 1180
- 01:11:52,224 --> 01:11:54,624
- [But they're not.]
- 1181
- 01:11:56,424 --> 01:11:59,344
- [They're not hopeless.]
- 1182
- 01:12:01,464 --> 01:12:04,064
- [I'll never give up hope...]
- 1183
- 01:12:06,184 --> 01:12:10,144
- [of being free again.]
- 1184
- 01:12:24,384 --> 01:12:27,324
- Ross Ulbricht went on trial today.
- A jury will decide a case that could impact
- 1185
- 01:12:27,424 --> 01:12:29,584
- - the future of Internet privacy.
- - Good evening to you.
- 1186
- 01:12:29,704 --> 01:12:33,324
- Opening arguments taking place today,
- and the first witness took the stand
- 1187
- 01:12:33,424 --> 01:12:35,784
- and actually just got off
- a few minutes ago...
- 1188
- 01:12:35,904 --> 01:12:39,184
- A Homeland Security investigation
- special agent
- 1189
- 01:12:39,304 --> 01:12:43,904
- who testified saying...
- "Thousands of envelopes of drugs..."
- 1190
- 01:12:46,104 --> 01:12:48,984
- I think everyone was surprised
- that Ross Ulbricht and his lawyers
- 1191
- 01:12:49,104 --> 01:12:51,884
- took this to trial in the first place
- instead of just taking a plea deal
- 1192
- 01:12:51,984 --> 01:12:55,124
- like pretty much everyone expected.
- And today, we saw why,
- 1193
- 01:12:55,224 --> 01:12:59,364
- which is that they've actually got a pretty
- compelling alternate narrative
- 1194
- 01:12:59,464 --> 01:13:01,904
- of how this whole case has played out.
- 1195
- 01:13:02,024 --> 01:13:06,104
- The story that Dratel is telling
- that Ross did create the Silk Road,
- 1196
- 01:13:06,224 --> 01:13:08,044
- which is an amazing admission
- to begin with,
- 1197
- 01:13:08,144 --> 01:13:12,264
- and that the real operator of the Silk Road,
- the Dread Pirate Roberts, framed him.
- 1198
- 01:13:12,384 --> 01:13:15,884
- It's a kind of theory
- that I never heard posed before,
- 1199
- 01:13:15,984 --> 01:13:19,984
- that instead of Ross being the Dread
- Pirate Roberts, he was framed by him.
- 1200
- 01:13:20,864 --> 01:13:23,524
- But in many ways, you know,
- it's something I should've expected
- 1201
- 01:13:23,624 --> 01:13:27,024
- because it's what the Dread Pirate Roberts
- told me when I interviewed him
- 1202
- 01:13:27,144 --> 01:13:30,684
- in July of 2013
- that he didn't create the Silk Road,
- 1203
- 01:13:30,784 --> 01:13:35,344
- that he had inherited it from its creator,
- kind of like a business acquisition.
- 1204
- 01:13:35,624 --> 01:13:39,264
- The FBI has told me that that
- was Ross Ulbricht lying to me.
- 1205
- 01:13:39,384 --> 01:13:43,064
- If it is a lie, it would require
- just a lot of foresight and planning,
- 1206
- 01:13:43,184 --> 01:13:48,344
- kind of like the... you know,
- an amazing game of chess or something.
- 1207
- 01:13:49,304 --> 01:13:52,804
- In the first days of the trial,
- the prosecution presented evidence
- 1208
- 01:13:52,904 --> 01:13:57,603
- that Ross kept a journal on his laptop
- describing his involvement in the Silk Road
- 1209
- 01:13:57,703 --> 01:14:01,363
- and that the Bitcoins seized from his
- laptop came directly from the site.
- 1210
- 01:14:01,463 --> 01:14:04,523
- While the defense would argue
- that Ross abandoned the Silk Road
- 1211
- 01:14:04,623 --> 01:14:09,583
- after creating it and that the journal
- and the Bitcoin were planted on his laptop.
- 1212
- 01:14:09,703 --> 01:14:11,763
- Andy, you interviewed
- the Dread Pirate Roberts.
- 1213
- 01:14:11,863 --> 01:14:15,803
- What's the evidence connecting
- Dread Pirate Roberts to Ulbricht directly?
- 1214
- 01:14:15,903 --> 01:14:18,803
- In the first couple of weeks
- of this trial, which is ongoing now,
- 1215
- 01:14:18,903 --> 01:14:21,543
- we've seen that the prosecution
- has a very strong case.
- 1216
- 01:14:21,663 --> 01:14:24,203
- Once they seized his laptop,
- they found that he had kept a journal.
- 1217
- 01:14:24,303 --> 01:14:26,983
- If this is, in fact, Ulbricht's journal.
- His defense claims it's not.
- 1218
- 01:14:27,103 --> 01:14:29,643
- He documented the administration
- of this site for years.
- 1219
- 01:14:29,743 --> 01:14:31,343
- He has a log book of daily activities.
- 1220
- 01:14:31,663 --> 01:14:34,303
- So this is a really tight case
- that's gonna be very difficult
- 1221
- 01:14:34,423 --> 01:14:36,523
- for Ulbricht to squeeze out of it.
- 1222
- 01:14:36,623 --> 01:14:38,523
- Underneath, in the deep web,
- 1223
- 01:14:38,623 --> 01:14:42,683
- we have an area where this young man,
- according to the government,
- 1224
- 01:14:42,783 --> 01:14:45,323
- has made a decision that he's going to run
- 1225
- 01:14:45,423 --> 01:14:49,923
- an illegal drug empire
- and we need to stop you,
- 1226
- 01:14:50,023 --> 01:14:54,223
- swift and certain prosecution,
- and ultimate certain punishment.
- 1227
- 01:14:55,463 --> 01:14:59,423
- As the trial continued, Dratel planned
- to reveal the government's own evidence
- 1228
- 01:14:59,543 --> 01:15:03,623
- showed they suspected multiple
- people of running the Silk Road.
- 1229
- 01:15:03,823 --> 01:15:07,183
- During his cross examination
- of DHS agent Der-Yeghiayan,
- 1230
- 01:15:07,303 --> 01:15:11,203
- Dratel was able to expose that the agent
- had long suspected another person
- 1231
- 01:15:11,303 --> 01:15:13,263
- to be the Dread Pirate Roberts,
- 1232
- 01:15:13,383 --> 01:15:16,303
- going so far as to seek
- a warrant for this suspect.
- 1233
- 01:15:16,903 --> 01:15:19,843
- The protection protested
- this entire line of questioning
- 1234
- 01:15:19,943 --> 01:15:21,683
- on the grounds that it was hearsay.
- 1235
- 01:15:21,783 --> 01:15:25,383
- The judge sided with the prosecution
- and Dratel was no longer allowed
- 1236
- 01:15:25,503 --> 01:15:28,563
- to question government witnesses
- about alternate suspects
- 1237
- 01:15:28,663 --> 01:15:31,183
- that came from
- the government's own evidence.
- 1238
- 01:15:31,303 --> 01:15:34,243
- When the time came
- for Dratel to begin his defense,
- 1239
- 01:15:34,343 --> 01:15:36,163
- he intended to use expert witnesses
- 1240
- 01:15:36,263 --> 01:15:40,383
- to explain that the complex technology
- behind encryption and cryptocurrency
- 1241
- 01:15:40,503 --> 01:15:44,963
- made it difficult to prove that the journal
- and the Bitcoin belonged to Ross.
- 1242
- 01:15:45,063 --> 01:15:47,323
- The prosecution objected
- to these witnesses,
- 1243
- 01:15:47,423 --> 01:15:49,983
- claiming they should have been
- made known earlier in the trial
- 1244
- 01:15:50,103 --> 01:15:53,643
- and they were not necessary
- for the jury's understanding of the case.
- 1245
- 01:15:53,743 --> 01:15:56,303
- Once again, the judge sided
- with the prosecution,
- 1246
- 01:15:56,423 --> 01:16:00,343
- stating that this case did not require
- specialized knowledge.
- 1247
- 01:16:00,703 --> 01:16:03,123
- Without expert witnesses
- and unable to pursue
- 1248
- 01:16:03,223 --> 01:16:05,923
- the government's own evidence
- of an alternate DPR,
- 1249
- 01:16:06,023 --> 01:16:09,763
- Dratel's entire defense
- was effectively blocked.
- 1250
- 01:16:09,863 --> 01:16:13,223
- The trial ended abruptly the next day.
- 1251
- 01:16:19,023 --> 01:16:23,183
- The trial of Ross Ulbricht
- raised more questions than it answered.
- 1252
- 01:16:23,303 --> 01:16:27,643
- Did we really know the full truth
- of the Silk Road case?
- 1253
- 01:16:27,743 --> 01:16:30,243
- Would this case set a precedent
- for the warrantless search
- 1254
- 01:16:30,343 --> 01:16:32,723
- of Americans' digital property?
- 1255
- 01:16:32,823 --> 01:16:36,543
- Whatever the ultimate outcome,
- it was clear that the fall of the Silk Road
- 1256
- 01:16:36,663 --> 01:16:39,462
- was not the end of a chapter,
- but the beginning.
- 1257
- 01:16:39,782 --> 01:16:44,002
- And the movement to create tools
- and services for online privacy
- 1258
- 01:16:44,102 --> 01:16:46,022
- is stronger than ever.
- 1259
- 01:16:46,142 --> 01:16:48,282
- The trial of Silk Road
- mastermind Ross Ulbricht
- 1260
- 01:16:48,382 --> 01:16:51,362
- concluded when a jury found him guilty
- on seven different counts
- 1261
- 01:16:51,462 --> 01:16:55,242
- that included three drug charges as well
- as computer hacking, money laundering
- 1262
- 01:16:55,342 --> 01:16:59,182
- and even a kingpin charge
- of continuing a criminal enterprise.
- 1263
- 01:16:59,382 --> 01:17:01,922
- Ulbricht faces a minimum
- of 30 years behind bars,
- 1264
- 01:17:02,022 --> 01:17:04,222
- but his defense plans
- to appeal this decision.
- 1265
- 01:17:04,342 --> 01:17:06,242
- Anyone here, all of us,
- 1266
- 01:17:06,342 --> 01:17:10,262
- are going to be judged by things for which
- there is no attribution in real life.
- 1267
- 01:17:10,502 --> 01:17:12,602
- There's only attribution on the Internet
- 1268
- 01:17:12,702 --> 01:17:16,682
- for things to be created, codified,
- edited, moved, hacked.
- 1269
- 01:17:16,782 --> 01:17:19,382
- - Was it a fair trial?
- - No, I don't think so.
- 1270
- 01:17:21,582 --> 01:17:25,882
- As the actual verdict was read,
- the word "guilty" was said seven times.
- 1271
- 01:17:25,982 --> 01:17:29,802
- Ross was just staring straight ahead.
- I don't know what was on his face.
- 1272
- 01:17:29,902 --> 01:17:32,522
- But afterwards he turned back
- to look at his family
- 1273
- 01:17:32,622 --> 01:17:35,962
- and he had this really heartbreaking
- kind of stoic smile.
- 1274
- 01:17:36,062 --> 01:17:39,542
- And he was just... he wasn't crying,
- but he was just blinking...
- 1275
- 01:17:39,662 --> 01:17:41,922
- like blinking hard.
- 1276
- 01:17:42,022 --> 01:17:43,742
- And...
- 1277
- 01:17:44,542 --> 01:17:48,582
- then as he was led away,
- his mom said, "This is not the end."
- 1278
- 01:17:49,262 --> 01:17:52,302
- You know, that was it.
- 1279
- 01:17:55,942 --> 01:17:58,782
- The evidence against
- Ulbricht was so powerful
- 1280
- 01:17:58,902 --> 01:18:02,762
- and Dratel's strategy had been to try
- to cross examine every government witness
- 1281
- 01:18:02,862 --> 01:18:06,182
- and to pull out his alternative story
- through that cross examination.
- 1282
- 01:18:06,302 --> 01:18:08,782
- And when the judge essentially
- shut that down and said
- 1283
- 01:18:08,902 --> 01:18:13,482
- you have to limit your cross examination
- to the scope of the government's...
- 1284
- 01:18:13,582 --> 01:18:19,542
- initial questioning, that really
- prevented him from telling any other story.
- 1285
- 01:18:22,662 --> 01:18:26,602
- We have a much more informed perspective
- than the rest of the world.
- 1286
- 01:18:26,702 --> 01:18:31,242
- We have meetings that we've had with Josh
- through the last year and three months...
- 1287
- 01:18:31,342 --> 01:18:32,582
- regular meetings.
- 1288
- 01:18:32,702 --> 01:18:37,342
- We know about how he felt like he might
- win the case, in cross examination.
- 1289
- 01:18:38,022 --> 01:18:43,822
- We know that the government, that his
- witnesses were blocked from testifying.
- 1290
- 01:18:44,862 --> 01:18:49,982
- We were in the courtroom
- and we saw what happened and the...
- 1291
- 01:18:50,422 --> 01:18:54,142
- the travesty, the... appalling,
- 1292
- 01:18:54,702 --> 01:18:56,942
- obstruction of justice that happened.
- 1293
- 01:18:57,062 --> 01:19:01,662
- There was 5,000 pages of government
- evidence to do with one witness alone,
- 1294
- 01:19:01,782 --> 01:19:05,082
- Jarod Der-Yeghiayan.
- None of that was allowed.
- 1295
- 01:19:05,182 --> 01:19:08,822
- 5,000 pages, and it was dumped
- on the defense 10 days before trial.
- 1296
- 01:19:08,942 --> 01:19:14,022
- Another 2,500 pages for other witnesses was
- dumped on the defense a week before trial.
- 1297
- 01:19:14,142 --> 01:19:18,862
- And it was full of exculpatory evidence
- favorable to Ross
- 1298
- 01:19:18,982 --> 01:19:21,122
- that was not permitted to be used.
- 1299
- 01:19:21,222 --> 01:19:25,881
- All this great, huge field of evidence
- 1300
- 01:19:25,981 --> 01:19:31,101
- that came out in the 3,500 material,
- a week before trial, that was...
- 1301
- 01:19:31,941 --> 01:19:34,081
- that would help prove Ross's innocence
- 1302
- 01:19:34,181 --> 01:19:38,481
- was excluded from being
- brought out in the courtroom.
- 1303
- 01:19:38,581 --> 01:19:41,701
- It would have been a whole different case.
- This was the trial that didn't happen.
- 1304
- 01:19:41,821 --> 01:19:44,261
- - The trial that didn't happen.
- - It just didn't happen because it was...
- 1305
- 01:19:44,381 --> 01:19:49,421
- only the prosecution's narrative
- that we heard.
- 1306
- 01:19:52,541 --> 01:19:54,941
- So then what about the hacking
- of the Silk Road servers?
- 1307
- 01:19:55,061 --> 01:19:57,241
- What about the precedent issue
- of the case?
- 1308
- 01:19:57,341 --> 01:20:01,741
- We didn't get that far. We didn't get
- to even have that kind of public hearing
- 1309
- 01:20:01,861 --> 01:20:03,981
- where the FBI has to say how they did it
- 1310
- 01:20:04,101 --> 01:20:07,281
- and then we get to decide
- whether that was legal or illegal.
- 1311
- 01:20:07,381 --> 01:20:10,341
- That's maybe the most frustrating thing
- about this case from a legal point of view
- 1312
- 01:20:10,461 --> 01:20:15,241
- is that American law enforcement
- hacked a foreign server, I believe,
- 1313
- 01:20:15,341 --> 01:20:17,721
- and they didn't have a warrant
- 1314
- 01:20:17,821 --> 01:20:21,561
- and they completely got away
- with it and nobody's even...
- 1315
- 01:20:21,661 --> 01:20:24,761
- nobody even gets to ask
- any questions about it.
- 1316
- 01:20:24,861 --> 01:20:27,921
- - How is Ross through all of this?
- - He's an amazing guy.
- 1317
- 01:20:28,021 --> 01:20:31,141
- You know, he's handling this
- so much better than I would've.
- 1318
- 01:20:31,261 --> 01:20:34,701
- I don't know how I could've taken
- what he's put up with
- 1319
- 01:20:34,821 --> 01:20:38,581
- and been subjected to
- in this last year and three months.
- 1320
- 01:20:38,861 --> 01:20:41,301
- And we pray that...
- 1321
- 01:20:41,861 --> 01:20:44,621
- his spirit won't be crushed by this.
- 1322
- 01:20:46,301 --> 01:20:48,221
- It seems that Ross conceived
- of the Silk Road,
- 1323
- 01:20:48,341 --> 01:20:51,141
- that he ran it for its
- entire existence online.
- 1324
- 01:20:51,261 --> 01:20:54,081
- I actually accept that
- the government has proven that.
- 1325
- 01:20:54,181 --> 01:20:58,501
- But Ross Ulbricht...
- is a fascinating character.
- 1326
- 01:20:58,621 --> 01:21:00,601
- He invented this brilliant thing.
- 1327
- 01:21:00,701 --> 01:21:03,161
- He had principles.
- He wasn't just a cyber-criminal.
- 1328
- 01:21:03,261 --> 01:21:07,641
- He wasn't just a drug lord or a kingpin
- as he's described in these charges.
- 1329
- 01:21:07,741 --> 01:21:10,121
- He was also an idealistic guy.
- 1330
- 01:21:10,221 --> 01:21:13,861
- And I'm gonna be conflicted
- about both the...
- 1331
- 01:21:13,981 --> 01:21:16,581
- kind of virtue of the Silk Road
- and of Ross Ulbricht as a person,
- 1332
- 01:21:16,701 --> 01:21:18,281
- I think, for the rest of my life.
- 1333
- 01:21:18,381 --> 01:21:21,301
- I'm not gonna be able to come
- to a conclusion about this.
- 1334
- 01:21:23,621 --> 01:21:26,521
- [On March 25th, 2015,
- a criminal complaint was filed...]
- 1335
- 01:21:26,621 --> 01:21:30,571
- [against two former federal agents who
- led the Silk Road task force in Baltimore.]
- 1336
- 01:21:30,671 --> 01:21:34,301
- [Among other charges, these agents allegedly
- stole over a million dollars in Bitcoin...]
- 1337
- 01:21:34,401 --> 01:21:37,761
- [from the Silk Road and transferred them
- to personal accounts.]
- 1338
- 01:21:38,281 --> 01:21:41,841
- [The government did not allow
- Ulbricht's defense...]
- 1339
- 01:21:41,941 --> 01:21:46,581
- [to address this criminal investigation
- during the trial.]
- 1340
- 01:21:47,931 --> 01:21:51,171
- [On May 29th, 2015, Ross Ulbricht
- was sentenced to life in prison...]
- 1341
- 01:21:51,291 --> 01:21:54,911
- [without the possibility of parole.]
- 1342
- 01:22:02,311 --> 01:22:04,791
- I don't know. Got any more questions
- or should we wrap it up?
- 1343
- 01:22:04,911 --> 01:22:10,991
- Yes. What are you going to do
- over the next five years?
- 1344
- 01:22:11,551 --> 01:22:13,511
- In one sentence.
- 1345
- 01:22:25,350 --> 01:22:28,510
- I'm going to do a few things,
- so one sentence isn't enough.
- 1346
- 01:22:28,630 --> 01:22:32,630
- But, I wanna... I'm pretty sure I wanna
- start a family in the next five years.
- 1347
- 01:22:32,750 --> 01:22:34,430
- Nice. Okay.
- 1348
- 01:22:34,670 --> 01:22:36,430
- And...
- 1349
- 01:22:36,550 --> 01:22:39,930
- and... yeah, make more friends
- 1350
- 01:22:40,030 --> 01:22:42,730
- and close people I love.
- 1351
- 01:22:42,830 --> 01:22:45,110
- Yeah. Focus on...
- 1352
- 01:22:46,510 --> 01:22:48,630
- being more connected to people.
- 1353
- 01:22:49,070 --> 01:22:52,950
- And... 20 years?
- 1354
- 01:22:53,950 --> 01:22:56,110
- 20 years.
- 1355
- 01:22:58,110 --> 01:23:00,450
- I wanna have had a...
- 1356
- 01:23:00,550 --> 01:23:04,630
- substantial, positive impact
- on the future of humanity by that time.
- 1357
- 01:23:04,750 --> 01:23:06,490
- Do you think you're gonna live forever?
- 1358
- 01:23:06,590 --> 01:23:08,670
- I think it's a possibility.
- 1359
- 01:23:09,310 --> 01:23:12,830
- I honestly do. I think I might
- live forever in some form
- 1360
- 01:23:12,950 --> 01:23:16,430
- by that time with technologies
- changing so fast.
- 1361
- 01:23:17,510 --> 01:23:20,150
- Cool. I hope I'm going there.
- 1362
- 01:23:21,830 --> 01:23:23,550
- Sweet.
- 1363
- 01:23:24,690 --> 01:23:28,830
- [Someday, we could be a shining beacon of
- hope for the oppressed people of the world]
- 1364
- 01:23:28,930 --> 01:23:33,350
- [just as so many oppressed and violated
- souls have found refuge here already.]
- 1365
- 01:23:33,450 --> 01:23:35,650
- [Will it happen overnight? No.]
- 1366
- 01:23:35,750 --> 01:23:38,530
- [Will it happen in a life time?
- I don't know.]
- 1367
- 01:23:38,630 --> 01:23:42,430
- [Is it worth fighting for
- until my last breath? Of course.]
- 1368
- 01:23:42,530 --> 01:23:46,748
- [Once you've seen what's possible,
- how can you do otherwise?]
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