This is a real conversation from #politics

<+MacGuffin> it is not usual for conservatives to criticize the backwards ways of california, illinois and even new york
<+Staysa> MacGuffin, in what way(s) are those states backwards?
<+Diane> macg = criminal :)
<+MacGuffin> new york is so socially democratic that even republicans there are not conservative enough that there is a conservative party
<+Diane> yea lib states are horrible
<+MacGuffin> california support illegal immigration, protects convicted felons, has nonsense trangender equality laws, and is against amendment ii
<+Diane> they own  hte ghettos
<+MacGuffin> and amendments i, iii and iv
<+Diane> yea
<+Diane> stupid libs
<+Staysa> MacGuffin, in what way(s) does California support illegal immigration?
<+MacGuffin> new york city makes new york look awful
<+MacGuffin> california harbors illegal aliens and even sometimes hires them
<+Kaliuna> mac^^^ you got that right!
<+MacGuffin> the state and the counties there
<+Staysa> When you say "california harbors illegal aliens", do you mean the state government, or citiziens within the boundaries?
<+luldangs> all of those
<+Diane> they give hem driver's licenses
<+MacGuffin> the government, and of course, citizens too
<+luldangs> <Staysa> MacGuffin, in what way(s) does California support illegal immigration?     also, explain that the sky is blue.
<+Diane> don't they have sanctuary cities?
<+MacGuffin> california is fucked up
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<+Diane> haha lul
<+Diane> hey macg
<+MacGuffin> let us move on to christopher dorner
<+MacGuffin> the scared swat team was gunning down any vehicle that looked like his
<+Staysa> It does look like California has some laws that benefit immigrants here illegally.
<+anarchos> easiest way to deal with immigrants is to cut off welfare, then they wont want to come
<+MacGuffin> although that is more so los angeles specific
<+Staysa> MacGuffin, you breezed through your argumentation incredibly quickly.
<+Staysa> This indicates to me you're in a rant/vent mode.
<+MacGuffin> los angeles makes california look awful
<+Staysa> As opposed to having debate.
<+Staysa> http://www.latimes.com/local/california/la-me-california-immigrant-rights-20150811-story.html
<+MacGuffin> but there is also san diego and san francisco
<+MacGuffin> especially san francisco
<+Staysa> MacGuffin, in what way(s) does California protect convicted felons?
<+Staysa> MacGuffin, do you agree the Constitution provides a number of rights and defenses to convicted felons?
<+Staysa> I can cite the Amendments, if that would be helpful.
<+Diane> i think they have sanctuary cities
<+Staysa> Diane, what's a sanctuary city?
<+MacGuffin> in california, it is illegal or otherwise not allowed for civil entities to publish information about convicte felons
<+Diane> illegals have no rights
<+MacGuffin> other states are not like this
<+Diane> where criminals hide and they can't get them
<+MacGuffin> california is backwards
<+Staysa> Immigrants who are here illegaly have a range of rights, naturally.
<+Diane> illegals etc
<+Diane>  i think
<+Staysa> I can enumerate some, if you'd like.
<+Staysa> Would that be helpful?
<+Diane> obama said landlords have to rent to criminals
<+Staysa> You're Gish galloping, Diane.
<+Staysa> (Duane Gish)
<+Diane> no, illegals haveno rights by law
<+Staysa> Incorrect.
<+Staysa> They have many rights.
<+Diane> obama gives them things
<+Staysa> I can enumerate some, if you'd like.
<+Staysa> Would that be helpful?
<+MacGuffin> everybody has rights, but convicted felons lose some of their *liberty* untiil their sentence is served or are on probation in contexts indefinitely
<+Diane> stay are u illegal?
<+Staysa> I can enumerate three, immediately.
<+Staysa> Would you like that?
<+Diane> or a lib .or both?
<+Staysa> Diane, I am an American citizen who highly values the US Constitution.
<+MacGuffin> and illegal immigrants have a number of rights but still not to be in the united states
<+Staysa> Do you value the US Constitution?
<+Diane> they should have no rights
<+Staysa> Diane, have you read the Declaration of Independence?
<+Diane> they aere criminals
<+Diane> only citizens have rights
<+Kaliuna> iLLEGALS do NOT have rights
<+Diane> not illegal criminals
<+anarchos> they shouldn't have any rights, even to a lawyer
<+Stampede> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KCLXy-vSu3o
<+Staysa> Diane, I can quote the Declaration of Independence to you.
<+Diane> staysa show me wehre it says that in the constitution?
<+Staysa> Would htat be helpful?
<+Diane> u are a liar
<+MacGuffin> california operates in open defiances of federal statute, and today the supreme court heard the cases surrounding this
<+Stampede> dusty hill broke something
<+Diane> show me about illegals
<+Staysa> What am I lying about?
<+Diane> are u illegal staysa?
<+Stampede> concerts called off
<+Diane> come freom mexico?
<+Staysa> Diane, that is a fallacy.
<+Staysa> Please, don't be dumb.
<+Diane> no ans. illegal criminal
<+MacGuffin> whenever a conservative or "right wing" state defies the united states government, social democrats and social liberals cry bloody hell
<+Diane> who sucks off the system
<+synaptic> supreme court is hearing an appeal by the federal government on texas v united states
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<+synaptic> it only applies to DAPA
<+Staysa> So, I put you on ignore, Diane.
<+Staysa> You are losing your mind.
<+rric> MacGuffin: That isn’t quite accurate - it depends on the details. Felonies have classes, and disclosure law varies based on the level of the offenses. This is generally true across the USA, though the details vary from state to state.
<+Staysa> I will now fulfill all my above promises.
<+synaptic> they're not arguing sanctuary cities or open defiance of federal law
<+Staysa> What rights to immigrants who are here illegally have?
<+rric> MacGuffin: For example…For a felony DUI or vandalism, which are minor, nobody’s going to find them unless they’re running a full background check. However, sexual offenses typically get pushed to a variety of public sources
<+Kaliuna> synaptic and remember this - TX is the only state that can leave if it so decides
<+Staysa> 1 - They have the right to be free from cruel and unusual punishment
<+MacGuffin> the are felonies down to class j, k, l or whatever
<+MacGuffin> it is serious stuff but yet it is a joke
<+Staysa> 2 - If charged with a crime in the American legal system, they have a right to confont their accusers.
<+synaptic> only a violation of the administrative procedure act and whether we will still have a republican form of government as outlined in article IV, section 4
<+Staysa> 3 - They have a right to life.
<+Staysa> Those are three rights that immigrants who are here illegally have.
<+synaptic> kaliuna, any state can leave if it choose to do so
<+Staysa> Why do they have those rights?
<+MacGuffin> things like murder, rape, abduction and mutilation are felonies
<+Kaliuna> diane think Staysa needs to look up the term "ILLEGAL" obviously does not understand meaning
<+Staysa> "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."
<+Kaliuna> synaptic - you need to look that up...
<+synaptic> a state doesn't need permission, the very act of secession severs any legal ramifications
<+Staysa> Kaliuna, I have a question for you.
<+Staysa> Will you engage me?
<+rric> MacGuffin: In any case, background checks find everything in California or any other state. A school isn’t going to employ a convicted rapist. Theft convictions of any type basically screw you out of any chance of employment until you can get them fully expunged (not always possible if they were felony level)
<+synaptic> any laws against secession no longer apply if a state seceeds, it transcends those laws
<+Staysa> Kaliuna, a group of 137 people with immigrants have crossed the border in New Mexico. They have violated American immigration law.
<+synaptic> secedes even
<+Staysa> It is known they possess no weapons.
<+Staysa> An American Army helicopter flies overhead and drops a cluster bomb on these people.
<+MacGuffin> background checks are not free of charge, or in some cases, require government "status"
<+MacGuffin> civil servant status
<+Staysa> 129 of 137 are killed. Were any rights violated?
<+rric> Is Texas threatening to secede again or something?
<+synaptic> pilgrim`, lol
<+MacGuffin> depends upon how deep it needs to go
<+synaptic> rric, some people are trying to do it
<+MacGuffin> other states are not quite as asinine about this as california
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<+Staysa> MacGuffin, do felons have any rights?
<+Stampede> i been bad, i been good
<+Stampede> dallas texas, hollywooOOOoood
<+MacGuffin> convicted felons have all the rights that the jury does not (or cannot) take from them
<+Stampede> aint axing for much
<+Staysa> Agreed.
<+MacGuffin> or the judge or prosecutor, et cetera
<+MacGuffin> the only true rights that convicted felons have are that of appeal and that they are not to suffer "cruel and unusual" punishment
<+rric> You’re regurgitating some nonsense you heard from some pundit or blog. It’s not real. California is not significantly different than any other state. California is actually one of the most restrictive states in the union for convicts on probation or parole.
<+MacGuffin> they can lose their freedom of movement for life for the period of their sentences
<+Staysa> Felons retain most of their Constitutional rights.
<+Staysa> In general.
<+MacGuffin> they can lose their right to bear arms indefinitely
<+rric> California has plenty of wacky laws imo, but you’re just spewing nonsense
<+Staysa> MacGuffin, felons retain their 1st Amendment rights, generally
<+Staysa> And their 3rd, 4th, 5th, and 6th Amendment rights, generally
<+rric> for instance the bar for lethal self defense is extraordinarily high here, and flat out unconstitutional imo
<+MacGuffin> religious people have insisted upon that shit
<+Staysa> MacGuffin, are you aware that America imprisons more people, per capita, than any nation on Earth
<+Publius> felons do usually have the things they can read absurdly restricted
<+MacGuffin> so indeed convicted felons' retain their freedom of religion even while incarcerated
<+Staysa> This doesn't 'prove' anything. It makes me concerned when you feel we're not being harsh enough
<+MacGuffin> and freedom of speech, to some degree
<+Staysa> We are already one of the harshest nations on Earth in this regard
<+rric> For example, Zimmerman’s story of innocence - if it happened exactly as he claimed it did - would be tantamount to a confession of homicide in California. That’s how different the law is. Let alone he could easily get a decade just for the concealed firearm.
<+Staysa> I am for protecting the rights of felons.
<+Kaliuna> pilgrim` yaaaaaa
<+Staysa> Because the Declaration of Independence and US Constitution and UN Declaration of Human Rights compells me
<+MacGuffin> "which shouldn't happen; 'shall not be infringed' is clear." ...it is too hard to argue that somebody who has served his or her sentence should have the right to bear arms restored
<+Kaliuna> staysa - oh you a felon?? or former one?? or what
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<+MacGuffin> most people just do not trust ex convicts
<+Staysa> I put you on ignore, Kaliuna.
<+Staysa> I asked you about about immigrants crossing over the border and you didn't engage me.
<+Staysa> You did, however, engage me on an ad hominem.
<+Staysa> This indicates you're too dumb for serious debate.
<+Staysa> (Rage.)
<+Staysa> You have indicated that your Theory of Mind only allows people to argue for things when they are that thing
<+Staysa> Which indicates you have very low empathy, likely
<+Staysa> Unfortunately, empathy and advocacy is a core value of Western liberalism
<+Staysa> I can enumerate rights in the Constitution that defend this claim
* +obama` sticks his swollen penis into Reggie Love's mouth
<+Staysa> For example, the right to receive counsel
<Staysa> Kaliuna, Western liberalism is, however, big enough and strong enough to handle your hatred of it
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