Let's Talk About Mobs

Arthion <Riot>Today at 5:58 PM
This belongs here rather then raid concerns - I'm still genuine in my desire to see Aftermath/Riot agree not to contest several mobs each cycle (for some set number of hours), as a way to allow smaller/more causal guilds an opportunity to engage in content.  This is an offer Unicity made over a month ago, and I've made before too.  For this upcoming natural spawn (not a quake), Riot will agree to not contest Feshlak, Gozzrem and Telk (say - for 2 or 3 hours?), if Aftermath will also agree.

Planarity <Riot>Today at 6:16 PM
yup we're entirely open to something like this
independent of any business related to concessions or anything like that

Wallicker <AEGIS>Today at 6:30 PM
Cekenar and ikiatar for 2hrs sounds wayyy better :smiley: let us get some zoneline pull practice in and some triples action for some good loot :kissing_heart:

Planarity <Riot>Today at 6:35 PM
gozz is a zonein pull! (if you want it to be)

Arthion <Riot>Today at 6:35 PM
We can do Cekenar and Ikatair next week, Wall.
Or this week, and do the mobs I proposed next. /shrug.
My offer is for this to be an ongoing thing.

Planarity <Riot>Today at 6:38 PM
as I said in the UN-sans-AM discord, AM needs to be on board, obviously.  I know they're reading this
there they are now

RezzieToday at 6:41 PM
Well, we:
- effectively never contest PoH minis
- effectively never contest PoF golems or draco, outside of CT spawns
- effectively never contest Vox
- rarely contest Trak
- rarely contest VP
- rarely contest from 2am-9am EST
- have teamed up with a casual alliance to share the experience and loot of ToV
- have offered to effectively never contest Sev if Riot will share Hosh, freeing up him for casual guilds without VP keys
So I think we leave plenty of targets up for other guilds to have opportunities.
It is Riot that goes for almost all raid content almost every spawn. Perhaps slow down that hungry machine if you want others to experience content. Thought I accept that gives you less PR.
Aftermath will continue to not contest those targets too, regardless of Riot's decision.

DetoxxToday at 6:45 PM
vp sounds like a good zone to open up for all to experience
i know that any guild that radis has enough keys now
rotating vp would be a good start
still some bis loot for everyone in there
afterall it is year 5 of velious

Arthion <Riot>Today at 6:53 PM
I thought AM didn't like rotations?  Regardless, the offer was to leave targets up for awhile so that it maintains a competitive feel, while giving smaller guilds (not Riot and Aftermath) the opportunity to try things.  I'd be happy to include some VP dragons each week that Riot/AM agrees not to contest for several hours.  But neither you nor Monrezz named a single Velious target, and it is year 5 of Velious after all.

DetoxxToday at 6:53 PM
just as i thought. offer mobs that are trash and try to be the good guys lol
good play

Arthion <Riot>Today at 6:53 PM
I didn't offer trash mobs.
You tried to get a vp rotation while you just said you don't compete there - ie. give me free stuff riot.

DetoxxToday at 6:54 PM
and your faking altruism as i just called it out. good try tho

Arthion <Riot>Today at 6:55 PM
I'm putting my money where my mouth is though, as we did previously when we said we'd agree to give Kittens or a smaller guild a try at Tormax, and you refused/didn't reply.

RezzieToday at 6:55 PM
Arthion <Riot>Today at 18:53
But neither you nor Monrezz named a single Velious target.

I literally stated that we have teamed up with Aegis on ToV mobs, which including most of the top Velious targets.

Arthion <Riot>Today at 6:56 PM
Oh, sorry, I meant leave alone, not team up.
Which is what the initial proposal was.

DetoxxToday at 6:56 PM
vp is 10 years old and several guilds are capable of killing in there.  you want to give up mobs you get 50% of or dont drop anything good
give up good mobs and well talk

Arthion <Riot>Today at 6:56 PM
Tormax.

RezzieToday at 6:56 PM
(and also consider leaving up some of the other mobs which casual guilds can do more regularly, without the huge raiding experience/barrier to entry for Velious).

Arthion <Riot>Today at 6:56 PM
There's a good mob.
We'll agree if you will.

DetoxxToday at 6:57 PM
if were going to do this id rather it be a more long term thing that just at the whim of what riot feels like doing this week. vp rotation is agreat start

RezzieToday at 6:57 PM
Because the list I posted, certainly the Kunark/Planar targets, has been accurate for 18+ months now of very little AM contest.
It's only recently the casual guilds have had to compete against a mega zerg every single spawn for every single Kunark/epic mob/plat target.

Arthion <Riot>Today at 7:01 PM
I'm open to figuring it out.  As you pointed out many times in this channel, rotations are sort of lame.  The point is to try to create opportunities for guilds that are not Riot/AM.  I'd happily agree to a scenario where AM/Riot compete for some VP targets, and leave others alone for other guilds to get a try.  Which is exactly what I said at the start.  I'm also open to a sort of lottery system.  If you recall, a year? ago, Kitten's leadership proposed an agreement where each raiding guild can pick a mob they get a lockout for.  I'd be fine with that, too.

DetoxxToday at 7:02 PM
im sure that secluded list leave pd and hosh for riot and am to "contest"

RezzieToday at 7:02 PM
Kunark/Planar targets seems the least controversial, too. How about Riot doesn't go for every Vindi/PoF golem/draco/PoH mini/Vox/Trak? We already don't, so you're not giving us freebies.
Casuals win, AM doesn't benefit.

Arthion <Riot>Today at 7:02 PM
No, I'd gladly give BG/Kittens/whoever a shot at Hosh and PD.

RezzieToday at 7:03 PM
Riot gets some PR that it's hungry for.

Arthion <Riot>Today at 7:03 PM
We already don't contest every one of those, but I'm not going to make a detailed list as you.

DetoxxToday at 7:04 PM
aka u dont want to commit

Arthion <Riot>Today at 7:04 PM
I'm not hungry for any PR.  I'm not liking what I see for how small/casual guilds exist in the new, rare quake-spawn, rooted dragon meta, and am trying to think through how we can make that better.  But you'll assume I'm lying and am being disingeuous like always.

RezzieToday at 7:05 PM
I mean, I offered a very quick and easy win from very low value (in Riot/AM eyes) targets which are mostly 3 day spawns, yet Riot turns up to <most>.
If you want to help small/causal guilds, there's a great start.
And we don't even benefit from it.
We won't start contesting those more frequently just because you're not.

Arthion <Riot>Today at 7:05 PM
Well, the last few times we left PoF golems alone, we say AM kill them all.
Except today.

RezzieToday at 7:06 PM
We contested golems outside of a CT spawn once in something like 12 months.
So we stole 3 golems from the casuals in 12ish months.
How many PoF golems has Riot contested, outside of CT, since formation?
Exact numbers don't matter - my point stand, and you know it even if you don't want to acknowledge it.

Arthion <Riot>Today at 7:07 PM
A lot, way more then three.

RezzieToday at 7:08 PM
You claim publicly you want to help the casuals and small guilds, but you're held back because AM won't agree. I'm telling you here's a bunch of targets that casuals and non-raiding guilds would love to go for, which you could just contest less, and Aftermath wouldn't benefit either.

Arthion <Riot>Today at 7:08 PM
Anyway, we already rarely go for Vox, Seve, Talendor, Faydeday, usually leave 1 set of PoF golem 3days alone, etc.  I can make a list too.  What I hear from smaller guilds is not usually hey, let us kill Fright, but give us an opportunity at a target we haven't had a real try at before.  But - I'll let AG, BG, AEGIS and Kittens weigh in and tell us what they'd like to see, rather then trying to dictate it.

RezzieToday at 7:08 PM
Keep the spin going.
Deflect it.

Arthion <Riot>Today at 7:09 PM
We've already agreed to contest those things less, and have recently. /shrug.  I just didn't announce it from the top of the world.

DetoxxToday at 7:09 PM
ring war rot, tunare rot all working great i see no reason why wqe cant rotate content from 2010 that riot and only riot is killing. these mobs have bis for ppl and epic drops. now that the shoe is on the other foot you have a chance to make a difference and we are on board but youre still worried about how much youll lose
if you really wanted to make a difference your concern wouldnt be what we gained or you lost but would be what the server gains

Arthion <Riot>Today at 7:10 PM
Nah, glad to rotate VP if that's how you want to go for it - can even do it am/riot, then we agree to lay off it the next week.
But you're more then capable of competing on an even footing with us.

DetoxxToday at 7:11 PM
sounds great to me

Arthion <Riot>Today at 7:11 PM
This isn't about giving you something.
So that's a zone we've been clearing a lot of recently.  What's AM giving up that they kill a lot of?
Should be even-stevens, no?

DetoxxToday at 7:12 PM
You tried to get a vp rotation while you just said you don't compete there - ie. give me free stuff riot.

RezzieToday at 7:12 PM
We haven't been killing much recently. Someone posted our responder logs to RnF.

DetoxxToday at 7:13 PM
again this isnt about us. this is about the server. your looking at this as what were each giving up
if thats your attitude there is no point in discussing

RezzieToday at 7:14 PM
How about WToV then? When we're in VP, we won't touch Gozz/Telk/LTK.

DetoxxToday at 7:14 PM
im fine with vp rotation of am / riot / anyone else until we see who actually can kill there then we can extend the rotation

Arthion <Riot>Today at 7:14 PM
Nah, you and we don't need to rotate vp.
am/riot (1 slot) / everyone else (2nd sllot)

DetoxxToday at 7:14 PM
nah

Arthion <Riot>Today at 7:14 PM
Ok.

DetoxxToday at 7:15 PM
that is the attitude i just said will make this not work

Arthion <Riot>Today at 7:15 PM
Well, if that's how you feel.  I'm still like to hear from Aegis, BG, AG, Kittens and others, about what they'd like to see.
Rather then either of us dictating to them how it's going to be.

DetoxxToday at 7:16 PM
im sure they would love a vp rotation but your strings attached wont let it work unfortunately

RezzieToday at 7:16 PM
We've offered up WToV on VP weeks. We've offered up Sev if we're sharing Hosh. We've already (without shouting about it) offered up most Kunark/epic mob/plat mob content too.
(and we also team up with a multi-guild alliance to share ToV - including Vulak!)

Arthion <Riot>Today at 7:17 PM
The point of this was not to put the whole server on a rotation.

DetoxxToday at 7:17 PM
then your bluff has been called cause im not agreeing on a week to week basis on what riot feels like not contesting
all or nothing

Arthion <Riot>Today at 7:17 PM
I'll quote my original offer/idea:
Arthion <Riot>Today at 5:58 PM
This belongs here rather then raid concerns - I'm still genuine in my desire to see Aftermath/Riot agree not to contest several mobs each cycle (for some set number of hours), as a way to allow smaller/more causal guilds an opportunity to engage in content.

RezzieToday at 7:18 PM
I'll quote what I just posted:
 Monrezz <AM>Today at 19:16
We've offered up WToV on VP weeks. We've offered up Sev if we're sharing Hosh. We've already (without shouting about it) offered up most Kunark/epic mob/plat mob content too.
(and we also team up with a multi-guild alliance to share ToV - including Vulak!)

Arthion <Riot>Today at 7:18 PM
I didn't say it was week to week, we can agree on a large list and move through it.

DetoxxToday at 7:18 PM
ok cool
how about
pd hosh silverwing xygoz druushk and nexona
rotated for all

Arthion <Riot>Today at 7:18 PM
The point wasn't to put mobs on rotations, it was to give time for smaller guilds that need more mobilization time and time to figure out strategy.  Like a golf handicap, if you will.

DetoxxToday at 7:19 PM
sure how about
pd hosh silverwing xygoz druushk and nexona
and some random velious targets

Arthion <Riot>Today at 7:20 PM
Sure, glad to put those mobs up where we agree to not contest them for several hours apiece.

DetoxxToday at 7:20 PM
as it stands right now the server compets agianst riot
not am
so youre going to make the most sacrifice which because you dont want us to get mobs you are not willing to do

Arthion <Riot>Today at 7:20 PM
AM and Riot compete on equal footing.
You don't need a golf handicap.

DetoxxToday at 7:21 PM
no sir, your zerg has turned the tides
as you and yours make so clear at every point you can

Arthion <Riot>Today at 7:21 PM
You had more people then us at several junctures this weekend.  Purely AM, nevermind your allies.

DetoxxToday at 7:21 PM
we certainly did not

RezzieToday at 7:21 PM
I posted a thorough monologue yesterday on the current competition environment around the inner-ring/Vulak.

Arthion <Riot>Today at 7:22 PM
The phalanx is still the top guild on this server, as your folks are always fond of pointing out.
The most consistent raid force in the history of p99, I think someone said.

RezzieToday at 7:22 PM
Are you getting your facts from RnF now?

DetoxxToday at 7:23 PM
if u want to do this do it with the mindset of benefiting the server. your mindset is not there yet but its getting there and maybe in time it will

Arthion <Riot>Today at 7:23 PM
My mindset is to make the competition more on equal footing.  Aftermath doesn't need a handicap.
But other guilds do - and I don't say that to be mean, i'm just stating how it's shaken out.

DetoxxToday at 7:24 PM
everyone needs a handicap against your amalgamation of guilds my friend

RezzieToday at 7:24 PM
How do you propose to level the playing field, if you want more competition?

Arthion <Riot>Today at 7:24 PM
And you immediately turned this into what can AM get.

RezzieToday at 7:24 PM
I'm serious. How are you wanting to make it competitive?

Arthion <Riot>Today at 7:24 PM
As I said Monrezz, give a wait time.

RezzieToday at 7:24 PM
Because that is something I am interested in.

Arthion <Riot>Today at 7:24 PM
Smaller/casual guilds take longer to mobilize and figure out a plan.

DetoxxToday at 7:25 PM
no they dont
they can kill al the shit we can

Arthion <Riot>Today at 7:25 PM
They don't summon 70+ instantly the way our batphones do.

DetoxxToday at 7:25 PM
they dont need a plan
the problem is going against a 150 man zerg

Arthion <Riot>Today at 7:25 PM
OK.  Monrezz - truth, rather then speak for them, I'll just let the smaller guilds weigh in here and tell us how to make it fair.
We've never had 150 ppl on a raid.  Only Aftermath has.
But anyway, I'm going to stop arguing and shut up so other people can get a word in edgwise.

DetoxxToday at 7:27 PM
when it comes to vp, everyone needs a handicap against you 75 man perma parked alt roster. anything else am does not unless its early am hours. if u want to rotate vp and leave up any targets outside that am wil not contest any targets left up that we agree to

RezzieToday at 7:28 PM
The current mechanics effectively neuters competition on the inner ring dragons currently. With rooted dragons, linked guards and 100% summons, a guild with significantly more numbers than another has such a huge advantage they are effectively unbeatable. Take it as a compliment, take it as a salty loser - I really don't mind. But the reality is no clever play is going to allow 35 people to beat 150 people to a mob. In zone line pulling they could. That competitive environment has fostered a number of small/casual/independent guilds, including your previous guild, with success.
The current mechanics mean a guild with 3x the kill force for a mob still has close to no chance at killing a target because somebody brought 6x the kill force.
I would actually like a discussion to see if we can address that, because that would actually benefit all guilds - including Riot, in the long run.
That question is entirely open to everyone here, including Llandris.

Arthion <Riot>Today at 7:30 PM
Well, you had way more people then us on Vulak this weekend and still lost.
So it's not just a numbers game, but I'll admit numbers is a big factor.

DetoxxToday at 7:30 PM
you guys 4 guard engaged. and we did not have more than you even with our alliance we had 10 less

RezzieToday at 7:31 PM
The previous era allowed small guilds - Core/Paradigm Shift/Azure Guards - to pick up kills even when fielding 1/3 of what Aftermath was fielding at the time. In my opinion that was healthier for the server and the raid scene.
Numbers absolutely helped in the pulling era, because we had more monks to throw into the hub/more mana to burn on heals etc. etc., but numbers were very rarely the deciding factor.

Arthion <Riot>Today at 7:32 PM
Sorry - I lied again.  I said I'd shut up to let someone besides riot/am get in the conversation and I felt compelled to type again.  Going to be serious about it this time.  Won't respond further until I hear from the smaller guilds as to what they think would really help - and keep the competitive atmosphere of p99 we all love (otherwise we'd be on one of many instanced/rotated EQ servers)

DetoxxToday at 7:32 PM
Sorry - I lied again.

happening too much lately arth!

RezzieToday at 7:38 PM
So in my opinion, if you do want to keep the competitive atmosphere of p99 - which I think we actually have common ground on - then we need to discuss how to enable that. Grace periods, rotations etc. are not the answer to that, they just push the issue back.
How, with rooted dragons, linked guards and 100% summons, can a guild with 35 people have a realistic chance at victory against a guild with 100 people?

Nonon <AEGIS>Today at 9:06 PM
by joining up with the guild with 80 people :upside_down: :frowning:

Planarity <Riot>Today at 9:08 PM
OK, @KWSM, @Europa , @Blood Guard , @Azure Guard, @Aegis  etc. now you see what the problem is.  we offer to open up some mobs every week, to give others a chance to try new things etc.  It's really quite simple: this week it's mobs X and Y, next week will be something else, etc.
And you see here what AM's response is.  They try to twist it into  free mobs for them by rotating things they could easily just compete for.  What were they offering when they proudly killed 95% of all mobs every week when they had 130 people attend a raid as a regular occurence, when any other guild was lucky  to field half as much.  Now, there is another big guild, and they cry zerg.
They happily killed both hosh and sev in the same week, I'm sure, plenty of times.  The fact they haven't gone for fear golems in a while is probably an artifact of the fact that they werent raid mobs for most of that time and they had their farm crews doing it instead.
Now, I mentioned this in the UN-sans-AM, and once AM were granted access and saw that I did, they said it was "spineless, disgusting" and so on.  But I knew the truth all along, and so did you, I'm sure.
the elephant in the room, that we all avoid saying but have known for years, is that AM and their MO are toxic,  have been all along, and they need to go in order for this server to be more harmonious
As of right now, both arcler and I are here saying we'll give up something for nothing.   AM is saying they will not and will never do that.
All that time they happily posted kill lists on the forums, talked shit in ooc and  smugly posted their url in shout after zerging down mobs with no competition, shit on people and guilds all over RNF, they told us all who they were.   We just need to listen to them

Wallicker <AEGIS>Today at 9:24 PM
What mobs you offering @Planarity <Riot>

Planarity <Riot>Today at 9:26 PM
arthion suggested Feshlak, Gozzrem and Telk as a random example to start, someone else suggested cekenar and ikiatar
those both sound like good weeks to me, to start with

Wallicker <AEGIS>Today at 9:26 PM
I suggested those two :ok_hand:

Planarity <Riot>Today at 9:26 PM
it can be cek/iki first, that's fine
after that, dain+zlex
we can cycle through mobs this way
anything along these lines is fine with us

Khaymann <AEGIS>Today at 9:27 PM
I can't take credit for the idea, but I did give my 2 cents to Arthion when mentioned this idea to me.  If AM and Riot were to agree, I suggested that they leave up a couple of mobs each cycle for a limited time.  Announced or unannounced.  The targets could and probably should rotate.  This could drive some interesting competition and alliances between the other guilds IMO.  Although if BG and AG merge, that is a big wrench in the idea.

Planarity <Riot>Today at 9:28 PM
arcler and I have been talking about doing something like this since before riot was formed
before we merged, we wanted to agree to be different from AM
despite AM's propaganda, which is insidious, we still feel this way
the sticking point was always getting AM to agree to give something up, like it always is

Purpyl <KWSM>Today at 9:29 PM
kittens officers are reading and digesting all of this.

Planarity <Riot>Today at 9:29 PM
with every proposal to share, every rotation proposal, AM is always the sticking point

Khaymann <AEGIS>Today at 9:30 PM
The current rooted mob system makes it near impossible for any guild besides AM to compete with Riot's numbers, with the exception of quakes.  But the retarded, train all the mobs while burning consumables was also not something that many could compete in.  And if they did, it was a relatively small percentage of the targets.  Going back to that is not a solution I'd like to see

Ulgromm <AEGIS>Today at 9:31 PM
personalities aside, any "zerg" guild presents the same fundamental challenge to smaller guilds - they have much quicker response time and more bodies to throw at the mobs
kittens is wiser than aegis and not all talking :p these opinions should probably be considered our own until we all go back to the group of guilds we represent

Runyan <Riot>Today at 9:32 PM
Agree with you there Ulgromm. Even during the zone pulling days where “smaller guilds” could win out, some guilds always had 20 monks to throw at the mob to brute force it in. I know in PS we struggled to fill each position necessary for a zone line pull.

DetoxxToday at 9:32 PM
You can discuss all you want and feel free to do so but until Riot changes their attitude and approach, we will not agree to anything. That blanket statement is not only entirely false but completely pushes AM to be the bad guys while they run rampant on the server training and kiting whatever they want then trying to offer up Gozz and Telk as a means to save face from pissing off every guild. Their narrative here is not one of cooperation and AM wants to take no part in it

Ulgromm <AEGIS>Today at 9:32 PM
but having grouped with most of the guilds here, we're all more similar than different

Arthion <Riot>Today at 9:33 PM
Yea, that's why I started by suggesting time.  That Yelinak a month ago was sort of a test balloon - we said we wouldn't contest for 2 hours.  It popped in US primetime and I think it took an alliance of smaller guilds about 1.5 hours to kill it?

Runyan <Riot>Today at 9:33 PM
Im just happy we’re able to have a discussion about it. when I was in PS I would’ve killed for an opportunity to have uncontested mobs

Arthion <Riot>Today at 9:34 PM
And that yelinak - other guilds still have to track, had to batphone and mobilize, maybe compete against each other, etc.  Like it wasn't just a free, rotated mob.

Runyan <Riot>Today at 9:34 PM
I loved the competition, I still do love competing against AM. It makes the game fun. This last week on Koi - you guys killed it. But it still is nice to take it easy and raid and kill a dragon, no stress about another guild sniping

Ulgromm <AEGIS>Today at 9:35 PM
i had a lot of fun this past weekend working with am, both sides probably surprised to find ourselves there, but that's what they needed to do to compete vs your numbers. Same situation that had ps working with us and others vs AM. I think it is really silly when everyone is comparing how "gigantic" the other force is when maximizing players is what we gotta do, and have always had to do, at least to some degree
forcing folks to align is helpful to smaller guilds in a way, folks shouldnt discourage that and talk crap about splitting loot

Runyan <Riot>Today at 9:36 PM
I loved teaming up with Riot kittens Ag for vulak lol
It was a monster zerg but so fun

Ulgromm <AEGIS>Today at 9:37 PM
the experience is valuable, and in that regard leaving stuff up so we can mobilize is helpful
there are also gatekeeper mobs like trakanon (VP) or some of the ST stuff
right now 4th slot is gonna battle to the death in DN for zlandicar
(when it spawns)

Runyan <Riot>Today at 9:39 PM
I’m interested to see how Zlandi goes without AM or Riot :smiley: good luck

Khaymann <AEGIS>Today at 9:40 PM
Leave us with a newly tethered mob why don't ya! ;-P

Runyan <Riot>Today at 9:40 PM
Yah do me a favor

RezzieToday at 9:40 PM
@Planarity <Riot> You just threw out a huge swathe of accusations, called my entire guild toxic and asked for us to be banned from the server for harmony. You're also unaware, or deliberately misleading about the toxicity of your own members and the current state of RnF, of the presence of kill lists on your own guild thread.

Runyan <Riot>Today at 9:40 PM
And let us know where the leash point is lol

Ulgromm <AEGIS>Today at 9:40 PM
also, for huge changes, arthion mentioned a points system a while back/bag limit or something? that would be interesting if it scaled properly

Arthion <Riot>Today at 9:41 PM
Means you'll be the expert on it - and we'll be playing catchup next week.

Runyan <Riot>Today at 9:43 PM
Riot wants to give up mobs we’d have a chance at, no strings attached. Regardless of all the bullshit and competition. Let some shit sit up for 3 hours.

RezzieToday at 9:43 PM
Aftermath doesn't publicly proclaim we're generously and selflessly leaving mobs up, we don't feel the need to grandstand, and we don't use this channel as a PR campaign. We also don't pander to the casual guilds or feel the need to be patronising to them. You can paint whatever narratives you like, but it doesn't make them true.

Runyan <Riot>Today at 9:43 PM
Appreciate any discussion. I’m glad we’re having it

Planarity <Riot>Today at 9:43 PM
@Rezzie I meant every word.

RezzieToday at 9:44 PM
Then PM your citations and evidence to the server staff and have our shady, cheating, toxic players removed.


Runyan <Riot>Today at 9:44 PM
Well, we:
- effectively never contest PoH minis
- effectively never contest PoF golems, outside of CT spawns
- effectively never contest Vox
- rarely contest Trak
- rarely contest VP
- rarely contest from 2am-9am EST
- have teamed up with a casual alliance to share the experience and loot of ToV
- have offered to effectively never contest Sev if Riot will share Hosh, freeing up him for casual guilds without VP keys
So I think we leave plenty of targets up for other guilds to have opportunities.

RezzieToday at 9:44 PM
Posted in response to Riot's chest beating.

Runyan <Riot>Today at 9:44 PM
That’s pretty much saying you publicly and generously leave mobs up
I think we said we’d be willing to let mobs sit up
And you responded with that

DetoxxToday at 9:45 PM
ya telk and gozz
props bra

Runyan <Riot>Today at 9:45 PM
That’s big targets for casual guilds
I would’ve been stoked in PS
We’ve also thrown out KT
We don’t mind

Planarity <Riot>Today at 9:45 PM
except we said cek, iki, dain, fesh, zlex, etc. etc.

RezzieToday at 9:45 PM
I'm done with this channel (again). It's lost it's purpose, and I'm not just here for the Riot PR.

Planarity <Riot>Today at 9:46 PM
but I'm sure everyone here can see through you guys by now

Ulgromm <AEGIS>Today at 9:47 PM
Trakanon is one in particular that effectively shuts smaller guilds out of VP

Runyan <Riot>Today at 9:48 PM
^100%
I won’t put words in Itys or Arthion mouth but I imagine we’d let Trakanons sit up as well. VP is a badass zone
AM doesn’t contest it much either :smiley:

Arthion <Riot>Today at 9:53 PM
Yea, we've frankly been scaling back the level of energy we put into Trakanon, now they got most of our newer members keyed.

Khaymann <AEGIS>Today at 9:53 PM
That list of mobs not contested by Riot is not true at all.   Just calling it like I see it :slight_smile:

Purpyl <KWSM>Today at 9:54 PM
how many total FTEs are there? 40 ish or somethign?

Arthion <Riot>Today at 9:54 PM
Khayman, that was Runyan quoting Monrezz about AM.

Planarity <Riot>Today at 9:55 PM
he needs to learn how to use the
quote
mechanic >.<

Khaymann <AEGIS>Today at 9:55 PM
Gotcha.  Hard to catchup on all this.

Arthion <Riot>Today at 9:55 PM
Well, it's Runyan, he just figured out how warrior disciplines work like 2 days ago.

Runyan <Riot>Today at 9:56 PM
Sorry
Lol :p
Yah that was me quoting Monrezz
We love ourselves some trak/vp/fear golems for sure

Purpyl <KWSM>Today at 9:58 PM
just a roll a dice, it's a dice rolling game anyways, chances your mob is selected for the purge: casual edition would be proportional to the number of mobs you lock down!

Runyan <Riot>Today at 9:59 PM
The purge

Arthion <Riot>Today at 10:03 PM
My idea behind a grace period or even willing to consider Detoxx's idea of a rotation of some sort - is maybe create tiers of competition.  The top tier competition is obviously gunna get more mobs and higher level targets, and the second tier can compete for different mobs, week to week.
I don't know if that's the solution.
It's been clear there's usually 2 guilds that are competitive at the top and then everyone else at varying levels beneath.  If there's a way to create some structure around that and give everyone some opportunities for adventure, competition and loot, then let's do it.  That's fundamentall what I've wanted for forever - since I was a scrub officer in PS.
Anyway, there's a lot to digest and people want to think on it.  But I'll happily entertain and talk through any ideas people have with the principle of keeping some element of competition, but creating opportunities for guilds of different sizes and playstyles.

Planarity <Riot>Today at 11:17 PM
@Detoxx talk about PR stunts.  you know very well riot doesnt have anyone with permission to post in raid chat

DetoxxToday at 11:36 PM
Unlike your proposals, mine are genuine for the health of the server. Not to save face from steamrolling everyone and anyone last week. Im done with dealing with this shit show of a channel and dont want to post it here. Quite frankly, its better you cant talk

Planarity <Riot>Today at 11:38 PM
lol