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The Inventor: Out for Blood in Silicon Valley (2019)

tpbolon Jun 15th, 2019 140 Never
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  1. 1
  2. 00:00:22,542 --> 00:00:24,142
  3. We've had a great opportunity
  4.  
  5. 2
  6. 00:00:24,208 --> 00:00:25,810
  7. in asking so many people
  8. so many questions
  9.  
  10. 3
  11. 00:00:25,834 --> 00:00:28,458
  12. about things ranging from the future to,
  13. kind of, advice,
  14.  
  15. 4
  16. 00:00:28,542 --> 00:00:31,125
  17. and we thought
  18. we'd ask a few questions
  19.  
  20. 5
  21. 00:00:31,208 --> 00:00:33,959
  22. that run a little bit
  23. of a gamut, really quickly.
  24.  
  25. 6
  26. 00:00:34,041 --> 00:00:37,083
  27. - Mm. Okay.
  28. - Can you look into the lens?
  29.  
  30. 7
  31. 00:00:37,166 --> 00:00:39,959
  32. We thought it would
  33. be interesting to ask you,
  34.  
  35. 8
  36. 00:00:40,041 --> 00:00:41,166
  37. in the year 2025,
  38.  
  39. 9
  40. 00:00:41,250 --> 00:00:43,959
  41. what's the thing
  42. you're most certain about?
  43.  
  44. 10
  45. 00:00:44,041 --> 00:00:50,125
  46. More people will have access
  47. to their own health information.
  48.  
  49. 11
  50. 00:00:50,208 --> 00:00:53,083
  51. What do you dream for?
  52. Something in 2025?
  53.  
  54. 12
  55. 00:00:53,166 --> 00:00:55,959
  56. That less people
  57. have to say goodbye too soon
  58.  
  59. 13
  60. 00:00:56,041 --> 00:00:57,458
  61. to people they love.
  62.  
  63. 14
  64. 00:00:57,542 --> 00:01:00,458
  65. That's great.
  66. Can you tell us a secret?
  67.  
  68. 15
  69. 00:01:06,417 --> 00:01:08,500
  70. I don't have many secrets. Um...
  71.  
  72. 16
  73. 00:01:25,625 --> 00:01:28,208
  74. Are you a scientist or a technologist?
  75.  
  76. 17
  77. 00:01:28,291 --> 00:01:29,625
  78. Or an entrepreneur?
  79.  
  80. 18
  81. 00:01:29,709 --> 00:01:31,625
  82. I think I'm an entrepreneur.
  83.  
  84. 19
  85. 00:01:31,709 --> 00:01:33,709
  86. I was trained as an engineer,
  87.  
  88. 20
  89. 00:01:33,792 --> 00:01:36,041
  90. but... now my time is spent
  91.  
  92. 21
  93. 00:01:36,125 --> 00:01:39,458
  94. on doing whatever it takes
  95. to realize this mission.
  96.  
  97. 22
  98. 00:01:40,291 --> 00:01:42,000
  99. Theranos is the integration
  100.  
  101. 23
  102. 00:01:42,083 --> 00:01:45,041
  103. of the words
  104. therapy and diagnosis.
  105.  
  106. 24
  107. 00:01:45,125 --> 00:01:47,375
  108. And if we can shift
  109. toward a model in which
  110.  
  111. 25
  112. 00:01:47,458 --> 00:01:50,333
  113. we're determining
  114. the onset of disease
  115.  
  116. 26
  117. 00:01:50,417 --> 00:01:52,834
  118. in time for therapy
  119. to be effective,
  120.  
  121. 27
  122. 00:01:52,917 --> 00:01:54,834
  123. we will change outcomes.
  124.  
  125. 28
  126. 00:01:55,625 --> 00:01:58,125
  127. You founded this company
  128. 12 years ago, right?
  129.  
  130. 29
  131. 00:01:58,208 --> 00:01:59,667
  132. Tell 'em how old you were.
  133.  
  134. 30
  135. 00:01:59,750 --> 00:02:02,041
  136. - I was 19.
  137. - Yeah.
  138.  
  139. 31
  140. 00:02:05,083 --> 00:02:07,250
  141. There was never sort of a plan
  142.  
  143. 32
  144. 00:02:07,333 --> 00:02:09,834
  145. to drop out of Stanford,
  146. but I found what I loved.
  147.  
  148. 33
  149. 00:02:09,917 --> 00:02:14,208
  150. I found what I wanted
  151. to spend my life doing.
  152.  
  153. 34
  154. 00:02:14,291 --> 00:02:17,291
  155. Elizabeth has raised more than $400 million.
  156.  
  157. 35
  158. 00:02:18,333 --> 00:02:21,500
  159. The company is
  160. valued at $9 billion.
  161.  
  162. 36
  163. 00:02:21,583 --> 00:02:24,208
  164. You own over 50% of it, right?
  165.  
  166. 37
  167. 00:02:24,291 --> 00:02:26,125
  168. Congratulations on that.
  169.  
  170. 38
  171. 00:02:26,208 --> 00:02:29,417
  172. We've got an incredible
  173. opportunity to try to uphold
  174.  
  175. 39
  176. 00:02:29,500 --> 00:02:31,667
  177. a legacy in Silicon Valley
  178. of changing the world.
  179.  
  180. 40
  181. 00:02:31,750 --> 00:02:34,333
  182. And we like to think
  183. about it as a movie,
  184.  
  185. 41
  186. 00:02:34,417 --> 00:02:38,333
  187. and you can begin to see
  188. that story in a better way.
  189.  
  190. 42
  191. 00:02:39,667 --> 00:02:42,250
  192. We see a world
  193. in which every person
  194.  
  195. 43
  196. 00:02:42,333 --> 00:02:44,125
  197. has access
  198.  
  199. 44
  200. 00:02:44,208 --> 00:02:46,625
  201. to actionable health information
  202.  
  203. 45
  204. 00:02:46,709 --> 00:02:49,083
  205. at the time
  206. it matters.
  207.  
  208. 46
  209. 00:02:49,166 --> 00:02:50,667
  210. A world
  211. in which
  212.  
  213. 47
  214. 00:02:50,750 --> 00:02:52,375
  215. no one ever
  216. has to say,
  217.  
  218. 48
  219. 00:02:53,375 --> 00:02:56,041
  220. "If only I'd known sooner."
  221.  
  222. 49
  223. 00:02:57,125 --> 00:02:58,959
  224. A world in which
  225.  
  226. 50
  227. 00:02:59,041 --> 00:03:02,250
  228. no one ever has
  229. to say goodbye too soon.
  230.  
  231. 51
  232. 00:03:05,041 --> 00:03:06,959
  233. This future
  234.  
  235. 52
  236. 00:03:07,041 --> 00:03:09,166
  237. is beginning now.
  238.  
  239. 53
  240. 00:03:21,792 --> 00:03:24,458
  241. Nestled in the
  242. foothills above Silicon Valley,
  243.  
  244. 54
  245. 00:03:24,542 --> 00:03:26,834
  246. there is a 700-acre
  247. plot of land
  248.  
  249. 55
  250. 00:03:26,917 --> 00:03:29,500
  251. called
  252. the Stanford Research Park.
  253.  
  254. 56
  255. 00:03:29,583 --> 00:03:32,792
  256. According to the website,
  257. it's a community of and for people
  258.  
  259. 57
  260. 00:03:32,875 --> 00:03:35,291
  261. who seek to invent the future.
  262.  
  263. 58
  264. 00:03:35,375 --> 00:03:38,333
  265. From here came elements
  266. of the microwave tube,
  267.  
  268. 59
  269. 00:03:38,417 --> 00:03:42,417
  270. the mainframe computer,
  271. and the International Space Station.
  272.  
  273. 60
  274. 00:03:42,500 --> 00:03:44,834
  275. Steve Jobs spent time here,
  276.  
  277. 61
  278. 00:03:44,917 --> 00:03:48,166
  279. so did Mark Zuckerberg
  280. and Elon Musk.
  281.  
  282. 62
  283. 00:03:48,250 --> 00:03:51,291
  284. Elizabeth Holmes saw
  285. herself in their company.
  286.  
  287. 63
  288. 00:03:51,375 --> 00:03:54,792
  289. So in the fall of 2014,
  290. she moved her biotech startup
  291.  
  292. 64
  293. 00:03:54,834 --> 00:03:57,208
  294. Theranos to the research park.
  295.  
  296. 65
  297. 00:03:57,291 --> 00:03:59,667
  298. The company
  299. employed 800 people
  300.  
  301. 66
  302. 00:03:59,709 --> 00:04:03,291
  303. and was valued
  304. at nearly $10 billion.
  305.  
  306. 67
  307. 00:04:03,375 --> 00:04:06,667
  308. Four years later,
  309. it was worth less than zero.
  310.  
  311. 68
  312. 00:04:09,291 --> 00:04:11,000
  313. To understand what happened,
  314.  
  315. 69
  316. 00:04:11,125 --> 00:04:13,417
  317. it pays to look past
  318. the price of the stock
  319.  
  320. 70
  321. 00:04:13,500 --> 00:04:15,625
  322. to the value of the story.
  323.  
  324. 71
  325. 00:04:15,667 --> 00:04:19,709
  326. This compelling tale of divining hundreds
  327. of diseases from a drop of blood
  328.  
  329. 72
  330. 00:04:19,834 --> 00:04:23,125
  331. was a testament to the
  332. imagination of the inventor.
  333.  
  334. 73
  335. 00:04:24,834 --> 00:04:26,709
  336. In the deserted
  337. property she designed,
  338.  
  339. 74
  340. 00:04:26,834 --> 00:04:29,834
  341. you can almost hear
  342. the echoes of her ambition
  343.  
  344. 75
  345. 00:04:29,959 --> 00:04:33,083
  346. and see how glass walls,
  347. promising transparency,
  348.  
  349. 76
  350. 00:04:33,166 --> 00:04:35,333
  351. could become
  352. a labyrinth of mirrors.
  353.  
  354. 77
  355. 00:04:36,834 --> 00:04:38,542
  356. Was Elizabeth lost
  357. in a landscape
  358.  
  359. 78
  360. 00:04:38,667 --> 00:04:40,500
  361. between what
  362. she could make real
  363.  
  364. 79
  365. 00:04:40,542 --> 00:04:42,792
  366. and the world
  367. of make-believe?
  368.  
  369. 80
  370. 00:04:44,500 --> 00:04:48,083
  371. For me,
  372. this was a story of how people get trapped
  373.  
  374. 81
  375. 00:04:48,166 --> 00:04:51,834
  376. over time with trading off
  377. human values.
  378.  
  379. 82
  380. 00:04:52,375 --> 00:04:54,667
  381. And then, the way that
  382. they trade off those values
  383.  
  384. 83
  385. 00:04:54,709 --> 00:04:57,959
  386. change them as people
  387. and things go down.
  388.  
  389. 84
  390. 00:04:58,041 --> 00:05:01,375
  391. So part of it was
  392. trying to understand...
  393.  
  394. 85
  395. 00:05:02,250 --> 00:05:04,291
  396. and I think this is
  397. part of the story...
  398.  
  399. 86
  400. 00:05:04,375 --> 00:05:05,625
  401. is the journey
  402. for Elizabeth.
  403.  
  404. 87
  405. 00:05:05,709 --> 00:05:08,667
  406. Some people take a path,
  407.  
  408. 88
  409. 00:05:08,750 --> 00:05:11,625
  410. trying to do positive things
  411. for the world, right?
  412.  
  413. 89
  414. 00:05:11,709 --> 00:05:14,166
  415. Nobody questions
  416. that her motives were...
  417.  
  418. 90
  419. 00:05:14,250 --> 00:05:17,458
  420. were positive, but end up
  421. being something bad.
  422.  
  423. 91
  424. 00:05:17,542 --> 00:05:18,792
  425. How do we react to this?
  426.  
  427. 92
  428. 00:05:18,875 --> 00:05:21,083
  429. You can look
  430. at her at the end,
  431.  
  432. 93
  433. 00:05:21,166 --> 00:05:22,959
  434. and say how could
  435. she do this,
  436.  
  437. 94
  438. 00:05:23,041 --> 00:05:25,417
  439. but I think that
  440. would miss the point
  441.  
  442. 95
  443. 00:05:25,500 --> 00:05:28,083
  444. if you don't understand
  445. the journey.
  446.  
  447. 96
  448. 00:05:28,166 --> 00:05:30,125
  449. If you look at her
  450. from the beginning,
  451.  
  452. 97
  453. 00:05:30,208 --> 00:05:32,333
  454. it will be a cautionary
  455. tale about all of us.
  456.  
  457. 98
  458. 00:05:39,125 --> 00:05:41,709
  459. I grew up spending summers
  460.  
  461. 99
  462. 00:05:41,792 --> 00:05:44,417
  463. and the holidays with my uncle.
  464.  
  465. 100
  466. 00:05:46,417 --> 00:05:48,625
  467. I remember how much
  468. he loved the beach.
  469.  
  470. 101
  471. 00:05:49,834 --> 00:05:52,917
  472. I remember
  473. how much I loved him.
  474.  
  475. 102
  476. 00:05:54,583 --> 00:05:57,625
  477. He was diagnosed
  478. one day with skin cancer,
  479.  
  480. 103
  481. 00:05:58,792 --> 00:06:01,041
  482. which all of a sudden
  483. was brain cancer,
  484.  
  485. 104
  486. 00:06:01,750 --> 00:06:03,917
  487. and in his bones.
  488.  
  489. 105
  490. 00:06:05,083 --> 00:06:08,083
  491. He didn't live
  492. to see his son grow up,
  493.  
  494. 106
  495. 00:06:09,250 --> 00:06:11,625
  496. and I never got to say goodbye.
  497.  
  498. 107
  499. 00:06:13,583 --> 00:06:18,792
  500. The right to protect
  501. the health and well-being
  502.  
  503. 108
  504. 00:06:19,709 --> 00:06:24,417
  505. of every person,
  506. of those we love,
  507.  
  508. 109
  509. 00:06:25,291 --> 00:06:28,291
  510. is a basic human right.
  511.  
  512. 110
  513. 00:06:29,709 --> 00:06:31,583
  514. Over the course
  515. of the last 11 years,
  516.  
  517. 111
  518. 00:06:31,667 --> 00:06:34,583
  519. we've made it possible to run
  520.  
  521. 112
  522. 00:06:34,667 --> 00:06:37,166
  523. comprehensive laboratory tests
  524.  
  525. 113
  526. 00:06:37,250 --> 00:06:39,709
  527. from a few drops of blood
  528.  
  529. 114
  530. 00:06:39,792 --> 00:06:42,792
  531. that could be taken
  532. from a finger.
  533.  
  534. 115
  535. 00:06:48,375 --> 00:06:50,667
  536. And we've made it possible
  537.  
  538. 116
  539. 00:06:50,750 --> 00:06:54,000
  540. to eliminate the tubes
  541. and tubes of blood
  542.  
  543. 117
  544. 00:06:54,083 --> 00:06:57,250
  545. that traditionally have
  546. to be drawn from an arm,
  547.  
  548. 118
  549. 00:06:58,709 --> 00:07:02,125
  550. and replaced it
  551. with the nanotainer.
  552.  
  553. 119
  554. 00:07:14,709 --> 00:07:17,125
  555. And if I had one wish,
  556.  
  557. 120
  558. 00:07:17,208 --> 00:07:19,917
  559. standing here with all of you,
  560.  
  561. 121
  562. 00:07:20,000 --> 00:07:24,417
  563. it would be that no one
  564. has to go through the pain
  565.  
  566. 122
  567. 00:07:24,500 --> 00:07:26,709
  568. of traditional phlebotomy.
  569.  
  570. 123
  571. 00:07:28,250 --> 00:07:29,917
  572. I was always...
  573.  
  574. 124
  575. 00:07:30,000 --> 00:07:32,125
  576. absolutely terrified
  577. of giving blood.
  578.  
  579. 125
  580. 00:07:32,208 --> 00:07:34,583
  581. It's the only thing in my life
  582. I've ever been scared of.
  583.  
  584. 126
  585. 00:07:47,041 --> 00:07:49,709
  586. If we were to sit here and
  587. dream up torture experiments,
  588.  
  589. 127
  590. 00:07:49,792 --> 00:07:53,125
  591. psychologically, the concept
  592. of sticking large needles
  593.  
  594. 128
  595. 00:07:53,208 --> 00:07:55,333
  596. over and over into someone,
  597.  
  598. 129
  599. 00:07:55,417 --> 00:07:57,625
  600. and draining out so much blood,
  601.  
  602. 130
  603. 00:07:57,709 --> 00:08:00,709
  604. while they're watching this
  605. blood being sucked out of them,
  606.  
  607. 131
  608. 00:08:00,792 --> 00:08:04,625
  609. that you've basically
  610. completely debilitated them,
  611.  
  612. 132
  613. 00:08:04,709 --> 00:08:08,625
  614. that qualifies as a pretty good
  615. torture experiment in my book.
  616.  
  617. 133
  618. 00:08:08,709 --> 00:08:11,583
  619. I find it quite disturbing.
  620.  
  621. 134
  622. 00:08:16,875 --> 00:08:19,709
  623. This technician is preparing the blood sample
  624.  
  625. 135
  626. 00:08:19,792 --> 00:08:21,917
  627. for a white cell count.
  628.  
  629. 136
  630. 00:08:22,000 --> 00:08:24,709
  631. She dilutes the blood
  632. with a special fluid
  633.  
  634. 137
  635. 00:08:24,792 --> 00:08:28,208
  636. and puts a measured amount
  637. into a pipette.
  638.  
  639. 138
  640. 00:08:28,291 --> 00:08:30,917
  641. Since, really,
  642. the clinical lab infrastructure
  643.  
  644. 139
  645. 00:08:31,000 --> 00:08:34,792
  646. began to develop, we've had
  647. this highly centralized,
  648.  
  649. 140
  650. 00:08:34,875 --> 00:08:37,375
  651. very big,
  652. analytical instruments
  653.  
  654. 141
  655. 00:08:37,458 --> 00:08:39,792
  656. which require that much blood,
  657.  
  658. 142
  659. 00:08:39,875 --> 00:08:43,625
  660. and therefore, people have
  661. had to take tubes and tubes
  662.  
  663. 143
  664. 00:08:43,709 --> 00:08:46,458
  665. every time they do
  666. a blood draw.
  667.  
  668. 144
  669. 00:08:46,542 --> 00:08:50,917
  670. So, laboratory testing
  671. hasn't changed since the 1950s.
  672.  
  673. 145
  674. 00:08:51,000 --> 00:08:55,000
  675. It's the closest thing
  676. to mainframe computers versus...
  677.  
  678. 146
  679. 00:08:55,083 --> 00:08:58,083
  680. it's not even PCs...
  681. versus mobile phones that...
  682.  
  683. 147
  684. 00:08:58,166 --> 00:09:00,291
  685. that I've ever seen, right?
  686.  
  687. 148
  688. 00:09:00,375 --> 00:09:04,750
  689. So, the timing is very ripe
  690. to change this paradigm.
  691.  
  692. 149
  693. 00:09:36,041 --> 00:09:39,375
  694. There's no shortcut
  695. to really hard work.
  696.  
  697. 150
  698. 00:09:39,458 --> 00:09:41,875
  699. And we learn so much more
  700. from our failures
  701.  
  702. 151
  703. 00:09:41,959 --> 00:09:44,709
  704. than we did from our successes.
  705.  
  706. 152
  707. 00:09:44,792 --> 00:09:46,875
  708. We code-named our product
  709. "The Edison"
  710.  
  711. 153
  712. 00:09:46,959 --> 00:09:49,875
  713. because we assumed
  714. we'd have to fail 10,000 times
  715.  
  716. 154
  717. 00:09:49,959 --> 00:09:52,500
  718. to get it to work the 10,001st.
  719.  
  720. 155
  721. 00:09:53,583 --> 00:09:54,959
  722. And we did.
  723.  
  724. 156
  725. 00:10:06,000 --> 00:10:08,917
  726. What does it mean to invent something?
  727.  
  728. 157
  729. 00:10:09,000 --> 00:10:11,125
  730. It could be an act of creation,
  731.  
  732. 158
  733. 00:10:11,208 --> 00:10:13,250
  734. or an act of deception.
  735.  
  736. 159
  737. 00:10:13,333 --> 00:10:15,709
  738. The world's greatest
  739. inventor did both.
  740.  
  741. 160
  742. 00:10:15,792 --> 00:10:17,709
  743. We think of Thomas Edison
  744.  
  745. 161
  746. 00:10:17,792 --> 00:10:19,583
  747. as the inventor
  748. of the phonograph,
  749.  
  750. 162
  751. 00:10:19,667 --> 00:10:22,375
  752. the electric light bulb,
  753. and the way we look at the world.
  754.  
  755. 163
  756. 00:10:22,458 --> 00:10:26,417
  757. Edison's company made one of the
  758. first motion picture cameras
  759.  
  760. 164
  761. 00:10:26,500 --> 00:10:31,000
  762. and the very first commercial
  763. movie, Blacksmithing Scene.
  764.  
  765. 165
  766. 00:10:38,208 --> 00:10:41,208
  767. His company produced
  768. over 1,200 films,
  769.  
  770. 166
  771. 00:10:41,291 --> 00:10:43,542
  772. documentaries
  773. and fiction films,
  774.  
  775. 167
  776. 00:10:43,625 --> 00:10:45,875
  777. including
  778. the first screen kiss.
  779.  
  780. 168
  781. 00:10:51,667 --> 00:10:55,208
  782. But Edison's greatest invention
  783. may have been himself.
  784.  
  785. 169
  786. 00:10:55,291 --> 00:10:56,750
  787. The first celebrity
  788. businessman,
  789.  
  790. 170
  791. 00:10:56,834 --> 00:11:00,041
  792. Edison's secret was knowing
  793. how to tell a good story,
  794.  
  795. 171
  796. 00:11:00,125 --> 00:11:03,125
  797. in which he cast himself
  798. as the main character.
  799.  
  800. 172
  801. 00:11:03,208 --> 00:11:05,166
  802. "The Wizard of Menlo Park,"
  803.  
  804. 173
  805. 00:11:05,250 --> 00:11:09,041
  806. a man who could conjure
  807. anything in his laboratory.
  808.  
  809. 174
  810. 00:11:13,208 --> 00:11:15,542
  811. He had his name
  812. on over 2,000 patents,
  813.  
  814. 175
  815. 00:11:15,625 --> 00:11:17,542
  816. from telegraphs to vacuum pumps
  817.  
  818. 176
  819. 00:11:17,625 --> 00:11:20,667
  820. to electric cars.
  821.  
  822. 177
  823. 00:11:20,750 --> 00:11:24,125
  824. But he often promised
  825. far more than he could deliver.
  826.  
  827. 178
  828. 00:11:24,208 --> 00:11:27,375
  829. In 1878, the New York Sun
  830. printed a claim by Edison
  831.  
  832. 179
  833. 00:11:27,458 --> 00:11:30,709
  834. that he had solved the mystery
  835. of the incandescent light bulb.
  836.  
  837. 180
  838. 00:11:30,792 --> 00:11:32,875
  839. But it wasn't true.
  840.  
  841. 181
  842. 00:11:32,959 --> 00:11:34,500
  843. His filaments kept melting.
  844.  
  845. 182
  846. 00:11:34,583 --> 00:11:36,542
  847. When reporters and investors
  848.  
  849. 183
  850. 00:11:36,625 --> 00:11:39,750
  851. asked for demonstrations,
  852. he faked them.
  853.  
  854. 184
  855. 00:11:39,834 --> 00:11:41,458
  856. To keep journalists
  857. sympathetic,
  858.  
  859. 185
  860. 00:11:41,542 --> 00:11:43,667
  861. he gave them stock
  862. in his company.
  863.  
  864. 186
  865. 00:11:45,250 --> 00:11:48,458
  866. For four years, he pretended
  867. his invention was good to go,
  868.  
  869. 187
  870. 00:11:48,542 --> 00:11:51,083
  871. even while he scrambled
  872. to make it work.
  873.  
  874. 188
  875. 00:11:51,166 --> 00:11:54,125
  876. Then, just before his money
  877. and credit ran out,
  878.  
  879. 189
  880. 00:11:54,208 --> 00:11:57,333
  881. he solved the problem
  882. of how to keep the lights on.
  883.  
  884. 190
  885. 00:11:58,959 --> 00:12:01,792
  886. He was the first to practice
  887. the Silicon Valley art
  888.  
  889. 191
  890. 00:12:01,875 --> 00:12:04,083
  891. of "fake it till you make it."
  892.  
  893. 192
  894. 00:12:06,166 --> 00:12:09,583
  895. More than a hundred years
  896. after Edison's first movies,
  897.  
  898. 193
  899. 00:12:09,667 --> 00:12:12,500
  900. Elizabeth Holmes modeled
  901. her own ambitious career
  902.  
  903. 194
  904. 00:12:12,583 --> 00:12:14,583
  905. after the great
  906. American inventor,
  907.  
  908. 195
  909. 00:12:14,667 --> 00:12:17,959
  910. with a magical machine
  911. named after the man himself.
  912.  
  913. 196
  914. 00:12:22,208 --> 00:12:25,625
  915. It was obviously such an incredible story.
  916.  
  917. 197
  918. 00:12:25,709 --> 00:12:28,583
  919. The 19-year-old, the dropout,
  920.  
  921. 198
  922. 00:12:28,667 --> 00:12:31,375
  923. a woman creating
  924. this $9 billion
  925.  
  926. 199
  927. 00:12:31,458 --> 00:12:33,667
  928. innovative company.
  929.  
  930. 200
  931. 00:12:34,458 --> 00:12:37,083
  932. I went out there for four days:
  933.  
  934. 201
  935. 00:12:37,166 --> 00:12:40,458
  936. three interviewing her and one
  937. interviewing some other people.
  938.  
  939. 202
  940. 00:12:40,542 --> 00:12:42,417
  941. What are
  942. you working on?
  943.  
  944. 203
  945. 00:12:42,500 --> 00:12:44,959
  946. When she was talking about some subject
  947.  
  948. 204
  949. 00:12:45,041 --> 00:12:47,500
  950. other than diagnostic testing,
  951.  
  952. 205
  953. 00:12:47,583 --> 00:12:49,667
  954. she was very unprepossessing,
  955.  
  956. 206
  957. 00:12:49,750 --> 00:12:51,750
  958. very ingenuous.
  959.  
  960. 207
  961. 00:12:51,834 --> 00:12:54,208
  962. When she began to talk about...
  963.  
  964. 208
  965. 00:12:54,291 --> 00:12:57,458
  966. the mission,
  967. or the, you know, her business,
  968.  
  969. 209
  970. 00:12:57,542 --> 00:12:59,417
  971. then there was a shift,
  972.  
  973. 210
  974. 00:12:59,500 --> 00:13:03,375
  975. and she became very,
  976. very focused, very intense.
  977.  
  978. 211
  979. 00:13:03,458 --> 00:13:06,375
  980. Firm control of all the facts.
  981.  
  982. 212
  983. 00:13:06,458 --> 00:13:08,333
  984. No question surprised her.
  985.  
  986. 213
  987. 00:13:08,417 --> 00:13:12,959
  988. Um... very impressive,
  989. and very idealistic.
  990.  
  991. 214
  992. 00:13:17,917 --> 00:13:19,792
  993. We were the first to put on the cover
  994.  
  995. 215
  996. 00:13:19,875 --> 00:13:23,625
  997. and write a major story about
  998. this amazing woman next to me.
  999.  
  1000. 216
  1001. 00:13:23,709 --> 00:13:27,750
  1002. "This CEO Is
  1003. Out for Blood."
  1004.  
  1005. 217
  1006. 00:13:29,166 --> 00:13:31,208
  1007. This is Elizabeth's second
  1008.  
  1009. 218
  1010. 00:13:31,291 --> 00:13:33,625
  1011. public live interview...
  1012.  
  1013. 219
  1014. 00:13:33,709 --> 00:13:36,792
  1015. Fortune invited her to the
  1016. Most Powerful Women's conference,
  1017.  
  1018. 220
  1019. 00:13:36,875 --> 00:13:41,417
  1020. even though she wasn't the head
  1021. of a Fortune 500 company.
  1022.  
  1023. 221
  1024. 00:13:41,500 --> 00:13:43,208
  1025. And she was saying to us,
  1026.  
  1027. 222
  1028. 00:13:43,291 --> 00:13:47,792
  1029. "I'm the only one of these
  1030. people that founded a company."
  1031.  
  1032. 223
  1033. 00:13:47,875 --> 00:13:50,417
  1034. You know, "They're CEOs,
  1035.  
  1036. 224
  1037. 00:13:50,500 --> 00:13:52,625
  1038. "yeah, but I founded
  1039. this company.
  1040.  
  1041. 225
  1042. 00:13:52,709 --> 00:13:56,125
  1043. "I invented
  1044. what this company is about.
  1045.  
  1046. 226
  1047. 00:13:56,208 --> 00:13:57,667
  1048. I deserve to be here."
  1049.  
  1050. 227
  1051. 00:13:57,750 --> 00:13:59,510
  1052. I'll talk with people
  1053. sometimes, they'll say,
  1054.  
  1055. 228
  1056. 00:13:59,583 --> 00:14:01,375
  1057. "Oh, you know,
  1058. I want to start a business."
  1059.  
  1060. 229
  1061. 00:14:01,458 --> 00:14:04,375
  1062. And my question is always why,
  1063.  
  1064. 230
  1065. 00:14:04,458 --> 00:14:07,166
  1066. because there's
  1067. gotta be a mission.
  1068.  
  1069. 231
  1070. 00:14:09,417 --> 00:14:11,667
  1071. I had heard about Theranos
  1072.  
  1073. 232
  1074. 00:14:11,750 --> 00:14:14,333
  1075. and Elizabeth Holmes,
  1076. a woman executive
  1077.  
  1078. 233
  1079. 00:14:14,417 --> 00:14:17,166
  1080. in the male-dominated
  1081. Silicon Valley,
  1082.  
  1083. 234
  1084. 00:14:17,250 --> 00:14:18,625
  1085. who was starting a company
  1086.  
  1087. 235
  1088. 00:14:18,709 --> 00:14:21,417
  1089. with some real
  1090. potential social good.
  1091.  
  1092. 236
  1093. 00:14:22,333 --> 00:14:24,458
  1094. I write a lot
  1095. about disruption,
  1096.  
  1097. 237
  1098. 00:14:24,542 --> 00:14:28,125
  1099. and Theranos was
  1100. aimed to be a disruptor
  1101.  
  1102. 238
  1103. 00:14:28,208 --> 00:14:30,208
  1104. of the established
  1105. ways of doing things,
  1106.  
  1107. 239
  1108. 00:14:30,291 --> 00:14:31,834
  1109. the established, inefficient,
  1110.  
  1111. 240
  1112. 00:14:31,917 --> 00:14:34,500
  1113. and expensive ways
  1114. of doing things.
  1115.  
  1116. 241
  1117. 00:14:34,583 --> 00:14:36,875
  1118. And she was going to herald
  1119.  
  1120. 242
  1121. 00:14:36,959 --> 00:14:40,458
  1122. a revolution in medical
  1123. treatment in this country.
  1124.  
  1125. 243
  1126. 00:14:52,834 --> 00:14:54,917
  1127. The lab industry needed disrupting.
  1128.  
  1129. 244
  1130. 00:14:55,000 --> 00:14:57,041
  1131. It was dominated
  1132. by two companies:
  1133.  
  1134. 245
  1135. 00:14:57,125 --> 00:14:59,208
  1136. Quest and LabCorp.
  1137.  
  1138. 246
  1139. 00:14:59,291 --> 00:15:01,917
  1140. Between them, they controlled
  1141. almost 80% of the market.
  1142.  
  1143. 247
  1144. 00:15:02,000 --> 00:15:06,917
  1145. Their blood test prices were
  1146. always high and never transparent.
  1147.  
  1148. 248
  1149. 00:15:07,000 --> 00:15:09,375
  1150. They were sued for overcharging
  1151. Medicaid and Medicare
  1152.  
  1153. 249
  1154. 00:15:09,458 --> 00:15:10,875
  1155. for billions of dollars.
  1156.  
  1157. 250
  1158. 00:15:10,959 --> 00:15:12,667
  1159. But the size
  1160. of their operations,
  1161.  
  1162. 251
  1163. 00:15:12,750 --> 00:15:15,834
  1164. including the ability to do over
  1165. a thousand different blood tests,
  1166.  
  1167. 252
  1168. 00:15:15,917 --> 00:15:18,500
  1169. made them difficult
  1170. to challenge.
  1171.  
  1172. 253
  1173. 00:15:18,583 --> 00:15:21,667
  1174. Until Elizabeth Holmes
  1175. and Edison.
  1176.  
  1177. 254
  1178. 00:15:23,000 --> 00:15:26,083
  1179. She had built a staff of 700 people.
  1180.  
  1181. 255
  1182. 00:15:26,166 --> 00:15:30,041
  1183. Well, I went out to look at the Newark,
  1184. California, facility,
  1185.  
  1186. 256
  1187. 00:15:30,125 --> 00:15:32,625
  1188. which was extraordinary.
  1189.  
  1190. 257
  1191. 00:15:47,917 --> 00:15:50,834
  1192. Well, you know,
  1193. her story's so compelling.
  1194.  
  1195. 258
  1196. 00:15:50,917 --> 00:15:54,542
  1197. I mean, if you think about it,
  1198. you go in and you see
  1199.  
  1200. 259
  1201. 00:15:54,625 --> 00:15:56,417
  1202. this woman lives
  1203. in an apartment...
  1204.  
  1205. 260
  1206. 00:15:56,500 --> 00:15:59,291
  1207. basically, she called
  1208. her apartment a mattress.
  1209.  
  1210. 261
  1211. 00:15:59,375 --> 00:16:01,750
  1212. The only thing in the
  1213. refrigerator was bottled water.
  1214.  
  1215. 262
  1216. 00:16:01,834 --> 00:16:03,625
  1217. She ate all the meals
  1218. at the office.
  1219.  
  1220. 263
  1221. 00:16:03,709 --> 00:16:05,083
  1222. She slept four hours a day.
  1223.  
  1224. 264
  1225. 00:16:05,166 --> 00:16:08,250
  1226. She worked in the office
  1227. till midnight or thereabouts.
  1228.  
  1229. 265
  1230. 00:16:08,333 --> 00:16:11,125
  1231. You ask, do you date?
  1232. "No, I don't have ti...
  1233.  
  1234. 266
  1235. 00:16:11,208 --> 00:16:13,041
  1236. I'm married to Theranos."
  1237.  
  1238. 267
  1239. 00:16:13,125 --> 00:16:15,125
  1240. That was her...
  1241. that's literally her words,
  1242.  
  1243. 268
  1244. 00:16:15,208 --> 00:16:16,959
  1245. what she said to me,
  1246. and I believed it.
  1247.  
  1248. 269
  1249. 00:16:18,542 --> 00:16:22,250
  1250. You wear black outfits a lot.
  1251. Why?
  1252.  
  1253. 270
  1254. 00:16:22,333 --> 00:16:25,291
  1255. Because in line with the...
  1256.  
  1257. 271
  1258. 00:16:25,375 --> 00:16:27,458
  1259. designing my life
  1260. to be able to give
  1261.  
  1262. 272
  1263. 00:16:27,542 --> 00:16:30,000
  1264. every bit of energy
  1265. I have to this,
  1266.  
  1267. 273
  1268. 00:16:30,083 --> 00:16:33,125
  1269. I have a closet that
  1270. has a very large number
  1271.  
  1272. 274
  1273. 00:16:33,208 --> 00:16:35,417
  1274. of the exact same
  1275. set of clothes,
  1276.  
  1277. 275
  1278. 00:16:35,500 --> 00:16:37,000
  1279. and every single day,
  1280.  
  1281. 276
  1282. 00:16:37,083 --> 00:16:39,750
  1283. I put the same thing on,
  1284. and I don't have to think about it.
  1285.  
  1286. 277
  1287. 00:16:39,834 --> 00:16:42,208
  1288. Steve Jobs used to say that, too.
  1289.  
  1290. 278
  1291. 00:16:43,375 --> 00:16:45,208
  1292. He wore jeans.
  1293.  
  1294. 279
  1295. 00:16:46,959 --> 00:16:48,417
  1296. She was obviously, you know,
  1297.  
  1298. 280
  1299. 00:16:48,500 --> 00:16:50,291
  1300. Steve Jobs was her hero.
  1301.  
  1302. 281
  1303. 00:16:50,375 --> 00:16:52,458
  1304. And I just felt,
  1305. oh, well, she's a young person.
  1306.  
  1307. 282
  1308. 00:16:52,542 --> 00:16:57,750
  1309. You know, I'll give them their
  1310. little hero worship thing.
  1311.  
  1312. 283
  1313. 00:16:58,959 --> 00:17:02,959
  1314. I'm a tremendous admirer of what Jobs did.
  1315.  
  1316. 284
  1317. 00:17:03,041 --> 00:17:05,000
  1318. I think he was a genius.
  1319.  
  1320. 285
  1321. 00:17:05,083 --> 00:17:06,667
  1322. I do have to disclose that
  1323.  
  1324. 286
  1325. 00:17:06,750 --> 00:17:09,291
  1326. I've been in black turtlenecks
  1327. since I was seven.
  1328.  
  1329. 287
  1330. 00:17:24,041 --> 00:17:26,417
  1331. I want to talk for just a minute about
  1332.  
  1333. 288
  1334. 00:17:26,500 --> 00:17:28,875
  1335. what it means to be
  1336. in this company right now.
  1337.  
  1338. 289
  1339. 00:17:28,959 --> 00:17:35,542
  1340. I was sitting yesterday with the
  1341. president of Brazil for lunch,
  1342.  
  1343. 290
  1344. 00:17:35,625 --> 00:17:39,166
  1345. and this woman had invited me,
  1346.  
  1347. 291
  1348. 00:17:39,250 --> 00:17:42,667
  1349. and Eric Schmidt from Google,
  1350. and Mark Zuckerberg,
  1351.  
  1352. 292
  1353. 00:17:42,750 --> 00:17:46,458
  1354. and the Airbnb guys, and the Uber guys,
  1355. and a bunch of other people,
  1356.  
  1357. 293
  1358. 00:17:46,542 --> 00:17:50,041
  1359. and she sits down at the table
  1360. with all these people,
  1361.  
  1362. 294
  1363. 00:17:50,125 --> 00:17:53,083
  1364. and we all have
  1365. the headphones on, translators,
  1366.  
  1367. 295
  1368. 00:17:53,166 --> 00:17:57,542
  1369. and she says, "The strategic
  1370. priority of Brazil
  1371.  
  1372. 296
  1373. 00:17:57,625 --> 00:18:00,500
  1374. "is to get access
  1375. to low cost diagnostics
  1376.  
  1377. 297
  1378. 00:18:00,583 --> 00:18:02,792
  1379. "that can facilitate
  1380. early detection
  1381.  
  1382. 298
  1383. 00:18:02,875 --> 00:18:05,583
  1384. and prevention and..."
  1385.  
  1386. 299
  1387. 00:18:09,709 --> 00:18:12,125
  1388. We're all kind of sitting there,
  1389. and you can see, like,
  1390.  
  1391. 300
  1392. 00:18:12,208 --> 00:18:15,250
  1393. all the other CEOs' faces
  1394. being like...
  1395.  
  1396. 301
  1397. 00:18:15,333 --> 00:18:18,166
  1398. not wanting to be
  1399. the ones in the spotlight,
  1400.  
  1401. 302
  1402. 00:18:18,250 --> 00:18:20,309
  1403. and she kept on doing this
  1404. for like an hour and a half.
  1405.  
  1406. 303
  1407. 00:18:20,333 --> 00:18:23,750
  1408. And so, of course, I'm trying
  1409. to, you know, be humble,
  1410.  
  1411. 304
  1412. 00:18:23,834 --> 00:18:25,792
  1413. but I'm...
  1414.  
  1415. 305
  1416. 00:18:25,875 --> 00:18:27,417
  1417. When I first met her,
  1418.  
  1419. 306
  1420. 00:18:27,500 --> 00:18:29,083
  1421. I thought she was
  1422. really interesting.
  1423.  
  1424. 307
  1425. 00:18:29,166 --> 00:18:32,750
  1426. It was... It was hard to really
  1427. get a sense of who she was,
  1428.  
  1429. 308
  1430. 00:18:32,834 --> 00:18:36,750
  1431. but in a way,
  1432. I felt I idolized her in so many ways,
  1433.  
  1434. 309
  1435. 00:18:36,834 --> 00:18:39,166
  1436. based on, like,
  1437. the little that I had read.
  1438.  
  1439. 310
  1440. 00:18:39,250 --> 00:18:41,417
  1441. Nice to meet you.
  1442. I'm Elizabeth.
  1443.  
  1444. 311
  1445. 00:18:41,500 --> 00:18:43,792
  1446. For being a woman in the sciences,
  1447.  
  1448. 312
  1449. 00:18:43,875 --> 00:18:45,417
  1450. being a woman in tech,
  1451.  
  1452. 313
  1453. 00:18:45,500 --> 00:18:48,000
  1454. the fact that she started
  1455. her own company,
  1456.  
  1457. 314
  1458. 00:18:48,083 --> 00:18:50,375
  1459. that really got me excited.
  1460.  
  1461. 315
  1462. 00:18:50,458 --> 00:18:53,291
  1463. You know, she was
  1464. a really good idol to have.
  1465.  
  1466. 316
  1467. 00:18:53,375 --> 00:18:54,625
  1468. Thank you so much.
  1469.  
  1470. 317
  1471. 00:18:54,709 --> 00:18:56,875
  1472. In a sense,
  1473. I was super naive and like,
  1474.  
  1475. 318
  1476. 00:18:56,959 --> 00:18:59,959
  1477. almost drank the Kool-Aid,
  1478. like, a little too quickly,
  1479.  
  1480. 319
  1481. 00:19:00,041 --> 00:19:03,834
  1482. and was just more enthusiastic
  1483. to be a part of the team.
  1484.  
  1485. 320
  1486. 00:19:03,917 --> 00:19:05,834
  1487. You all are part of something
  1488.  
  1489. 321
  1490. 00:19:05,917 --> 00:19:08,583
  1491. that is a revolution,
  1492. and you're part of something
  1493.  
  1494. 322
  1495. 00:19:08,667 --> 00:19:11,166
  1496. that is going to change
  1497. our world.
  1498.  
  1499. 323
  1500. 00:19:12,041 --> 00:19:14,417
  1501. What higher purpose
  1502. is there in life
  1503.  
  1504. 324
  1505. 00:19:14,500 --> 00:19:16,375
  1506. than to be able
  1507. to be doing that?
  1508.  
  1509. 325
  1510. 00:19:22,542 --> 00:19:24,500
  1511. When I went on an interview,
  1512.  
  1513. 326
  1514. 00:19:24,583 --> 00:19:26,125
  1515. Elizabeth was there.
  1516.  
  1517. 327
  1518. 00:19:26,208 --> 00:19:27,834
  1519. And I was
  1520. a little surprised,
  1521.  
  1522. 328
  1523. 00:19:27,917 --> 00:19:31,041
  1524. considering I would be the
  1525. low man on the totem pole.
  1526.  
  1527. 329
  1528. 00:19:31,750 --> 00:19:33,875
  1529. I found out later
  1530. there was no one
  1531.  
  1532. 330
  1533. 00:19:33,959 --> 00:19:36,333
  1534. that got past her
  1535. in order to get hired.
  1536.  
  1537. 331
  1538. 00:19:36,417 --> 00:19:38,959
  1539. Um...
  1540.  
  1541. 332
  1542. 00:19:39,041 --> 00:19:42,834
  1543. I know this sounds odd,
  1544. but my first impression was
  1545.  
  1546. 333
  1547. 00:19:42,917 --> 00:19:44,917
  1548. that she didn't blink.
  1549.  
  1550. 334
  1551. 00:19:47,417 --> 00:19:50,083
  1552. And so, I always wanted
  1553. to make sure that I kept
  1554.  
  1555. 335
  1556. 00:19:50,166 --> 00:19:52,875
  1557. great eye contact 'cause
  1558. I didn't want to be the one
  1559.  
  1560. 336
  1561. 00:19:52,959 --> 00:19:55,542
  1562. to look over, right?
  1563.  
  1564. 337
  1565. 00:19:55,625 --> 00:19:58,458
  1566. Uh, so, she was very intense.
  1567.  
  1568. 338
  1569. 00:20:04,959 --> 00:20:07,059
  1570. Comparing it to
  1571. the other interviews that I had
  1572.  
  1573. 339
  1574. 00:20:07,083 --> 00:20:10,375
  1575. with other tech companies in the Bay Area,
  1576. it was different.
  1577.  
  1578. 340
  1579. 00:20:10,458 --> 00:20:15,125
  1580. You know, they didn't tell me nearly
  1581. as much about what they were doing.
  1582.  
  1583. 341
  1584. 00:20:15,208 --> 00:20:17,458
  1585. She never blinked
  1586. during the interview.
  1587.  
  1588. 342
  1589. 00:20:18,792 --> 00:20:21,709
  1590. She did
  1591. tell me about
  1592.  
  1593. 343
  1594. 00:20:21,792 --> 00:20:23,375
  1595. just the one drop
  1596. of blood
  1597.  
  1598. 344
  1599. 00:20:23,458 --> 00:20:26,166
  1600. and it's a medical
  1601. testing company.
  1602.  
  1603. 345
  1604. 00:20:26,250 --> 00:20:29,041
  1605. Um, they didn't say anything
  1606. about how it worked,
  1607.  
  1608. 346
  1609. 00:20:29,125 --> 00:20:31,125
  1610. or what the technology was.
  1611.  
  1612. 347
  1613. 00:20:31,208 --> 00:20:35,125
  1614. They just said, "You'll be
  1615. working with consumables,"
  1616.  
  1617. 348
  1618. 00:20:35,208 --> 00:20:36,834
  1619. which was kind of vague.
  1620.  
  1621. 349
  1622. 00:20:36,917 --> 00:20:38,917
  1623. How did they describe the project?
  1624.  
  1625. 350
  1626. 00:20:39,000 --> 00:20:41,709
  1627. They didn't.
  1628.  
  1629. 351
  1630. 00:20:41,792 --> 00:20:43,712
  1631. So, how did you know what
  1632. you were signing on for?
  1633.  
  1634. 352
  1635. 00:20:43,792 --> 00:20:47,083
  1636. You know, I had a very vague idea,
  1637. but I didn't.
  1638.  
  1639. 353
  1640. 00:20:47,166 --> 00:20:50,166
  1641. That's actually not that untypical
  1642. in startup environments.
  1643.  
  1644. 354
  1645. 00:20:50,250 --> 00:20:52,000
  1646. They want to keep
  1647. what they're doing secret.
  1648.  
  1649. 355
  1650. 00:20:52,083 --> 00:20:55,166
  1651. The response
  1652. of the major lab companies
  1653.  
  1654. 356
  1655. 00:20:55,250 --> 00:20:57,166
  1656. was to say,
  1657. "Well, we don't know
  1658.  
  1659. 357
  1660. 00:20:57,250 --> 00:20:59,267
  1661. - how they're doing what they're doing." And...
  1662. - Exactly.
  1663.  
  1664. 358
  1665. 00:20:59,291 --> 00:21:00,851
  1666. And if it's so great,
  1667. why don't they show it?
  1668.  
  1669. 359
  1670. 00:21:00,875 --> 00:21:02,309
  1671. There's too much secrecy
  1672. is what they said.
  1673.  
  1674. 360
  1675. 00:21:02,333 --> 00:21:04,000
  1676. Right, that's exactly
  1677. what they said.
  1678.  
  1679. 361
  1680. 00:21:04,083 --> 00:21:06,291
  1681. And, you know, our position
  1682. on that is, first of all,
  1683.  
  1684. 362
  1685. 00:21:06,375 --> 00:21:08,417
  1686. we don't think that we need
  1687.  
  1688. 363
  1689. 00:21:08,500 --> 00:21:12,083
  1690. to explain ourselves
  1691. to competitive companies.
  1692.  
  1693. 364
  1694. 00:21:12,166 --> 00:21:16,333
  1695. What we're working to do is to
  1696. invent an integrated solution
  1697.  
  1698. 365
  1699. 00:21:16,417 --> 00:21:18,750
  1700. where every person
  1701. gets access
  1702.  
  1703. 366
  1704. 00:21:18,834 --> 00:21:23,750
  1705. to this wealth of information
  1706. from tiny droplets of blood,
  1707.  
  1708. 367
  1709. 00:21:23,834 --> 00:21:26,834
  1710. and then see
  1711. how they change over time.
  1712.  
  1713. 368
  1714. 00:21:33,166 --> 00:21:35,625
  1715. She talked some about currently,
  1716.  
  1717. 369
  1718. 00:21:35,709 --> 00:21:38,291
  1719. you get a blood test
  1720. maybe once a year,
  1721.  
  1722. 370
  1723. 00:21:38,375 --> 00:21:40,959
  1724. and so you get a snapshot
  1725. of what's going on.
  1726.  
  1727. 371
  1728. 00:21:41,041 --> 00:21:44,834
  1729. If you were to start doing it
  1730. every month, say,
  1731.  
  1732. 372
  1733. 00:21:44,917 --> 00:21:46,625
  1734. you would get a movie.
  1735.  
  1736. 373
  1737. 00:21:48,709 --> 00:21:50,709
  1738. You have multiple frames from that movie,
  1739.  
  1740. 374
  1741. 00:21:50,792 --> 00:21:52,792
  1742. and you can begin
  1743. to see the context
  1744.  
  1745. 375
  1746. 00:21:52,875 --> 00:21:55,417
  1747. of projecting where
  1748. someone is heading.
  1749.  
  1750. 376
  1751. 00:21:55,500 --> 00:21:59,875
  1752. You're seeing changes
  1753. in laboratory data over time,
  1754.  
  1755. 377
  1756. 00:21:59,959 --> 00:22:03,792
  1757. and understanding the clinical
  1758. significance of that.
  1759.  
  1760. 378
  1761. 00:22:03,875 --> 00:22:07,917
  1762. The data can be used
  1763. in a more meaningful way.
  1764.  
  1765. 379
  1766. 00:22:08,000 --> 00:22:09,500
  1767. It was personalized medicine.
  1768.  
  1769. 380
  1770. 00:22:09,583 --> 00:22:12,125
  1771. Maybe you could catch
  1772. something very early.
  1773.  
  1774. 381
  1775. 00:22:12,208 --> 00:22:13,875
  1776. You know, you could catch
  1777. an early cancer,
  1778.  
  1779. 382
  1780. 00:22:13,959 --> 00:22:17,166
  1781. or you could get... you know,
  1782. when there was still time.
  1783.  
  1784. 383
  1785. 00:22:17,250 --> 00:22:20,208
  1786. This was sort of
  1787. the vast vision.
  1788.  
  1789. 384
  1790. 00:22:20,291 --> 00:22:23,458
  1791. So,
  1792. the idea with the Edison was to stick
  1793.  
  1794. 385
  1795. 00:22:23,542 --> 00:22:26,208
  1796. the lab inside the box.
  1797.  
  1798. 386
  1799. 00:22:26,291 --> 00:22:29,000
  1800. Because it incorporates
  1801. so many different disciplines,
  1802.  
  1803. 387
  1804. 00:22:29,083 --> 00:22:30,959
  1805. it's hard to pull this off.
  1806.  
  1807. 388
  1808. 00:22:32,375 --> 00:22:34,000
  1809. There's all these
  1810. different components
  1811.  
  1812. 389
  1813. 00:22:34,083 --> 00:22:35,125
  1814. that go into the machine.
  1815.  
  1816. 390
  1817. 00:22:35,208 --> 00:22:37,542
  1818. There's a centrifuge,
  1819. there's a...
  1820.  
  1821. 391
  1822. 00:22:38,333 --> 00:22:39,917
  1823. a little thing
  1824. the samples go into.
  1825.  
  1826. 392
  1827. 00:22:40,000 --> 00:22:42,041
  1828. There's a way
  1829. to prick the blood.
  1830.  
  1831. 393
  1832. 00:22:42,125 --> 00:22:43,685
  1833. All these things were
  1834. prototypes, right?
  1835.  
  1836. 394
  1837. 00:22:43,750 --> 00:22:46,792
  1838. The first thing is,
  1839. you look at what the chemists are doing.
  1840.  
  1841. 395
  1842. 00:22:46,834 --> 00:22:48,333
  1843. - Right.
  1844. - Right?
  1845.  
  1846. 396
  1847. 00:22:48,375 --> 00:22:50,351
  1848. Because you're automating
  1849. what somebody is already doing.
  1850.  
  1851. 397
  1852. 00:22:50,375 --> 00:22:53,125
  1853. You're not inventing
  1854. something totally new.
  1855.  
  1856. 398
  1857. 00:22:56,000 --> 00:22:59,792
  1858. I'm going to have to have a kind of dance,
  1859. let's say, right?
  1860.  
  1861. 399
  1862. 00:22:59,834 --> 00:23:02,542
  1863. I'm going to have to have
  1864. this thing go to the place,
  1865.  
  1866. 400
  1867. 00:23:02,667 --> 00:23:04,750
  1868. pick up something,
  1869. drop off something,
  1870.  
  1871. 401
  1872. 00:23:04,834 --> 00:23:06,500
  1873. mix something, etcetera.
  1874.  
  1875. 402
  1876. 00:23:08,375 --> 00:23:09,834
  1877. The idea was the pipette
  1878.  
  1879. 403
  1880. 00:23:09,959 --> 00:23:12,834
  1881. poked holes into these
  1882. little plastic containers
  1883.  
  1884. 404
  1885. 00:23:12,959 --> 00:23:14,041
  1886. with reagents in them.
  1887.  
  1888. 405
  1889. 00:23:14,125 --> 00:23:16,917
  1890. It mixes some of
  1891. the reagents with blood.
  1892.  
  1893. 406
  1894. 00:23:21,458 --> 00:23:23,101
  1895. My group was responsible for developing
  1896.  
  1897. 407
  1898. 00:23:23,125 --> 00:23:24,500
  1899. about 60 different tests,
  1900.  
  1901. 408
  1902. 00:23:24,542 --> 00:23:27,166
  1903. and trying to get those
  1904. to work on the Edisons.
  1905.  
  1906. 409
  1907. 00:23:27,250 --> 00:23:29,750
  1908. The trick was how do you make it dependable,
  1909.  
  1910. 410
  1911. 00:23:29,834 --> 00:23:32,333
  1912. then how do you incorporate
  1913. it into a bigger process
  1914.  
  1915. 411
  1916. 00:23:32,375 --> 00:23:34,917
  1917. that involves these
  1918. 50 milliliter samples?
  1919.  
  1920. 412
  1921. 00:23:35,000 --> 00:23:36,333
  1922. It was a complex device.
  1923.  
  1924. 413
  1925. 00:23:36,458 --> 00:23:38,792
  1926. You know, a lot of moving parts,
  1927. and a complicated system.
  1928.  
  1929. 414
  1930. 00:23:38,834 --> 00:23:41,000
  1931. It's not easy to do
  1932. all this stuff, so it was...
  1933.  
  1934. 415
  1935. 00:23:41,083 --> 00:23:42,434
  1936. You know,
  1937. I figured we'd get there.
  1938.  
  1939. 416
  1940. 00:23:42,458 --> 00:23:45,250
  1941. We felt we were on the path
  1942.  
  1943. 417
  1944. 00:23:45,333 --> 00:23:47,667
  1945. to be able to make machines
  1946. that could do this.
  1947.  
  1948. 418
  1949. 00:23:58,125 --> 00:24:01,405
  1950. Elizabeth Holmes,
  1951. we're on the record unless you tell me not.
  1952.  
  1953. 419
  1954. 00:24:01,458 --> 00:24:04,458
  1955. Let me begin. When you think
  1956. about yourself as a child...
  1957.  
  1958. 420
  1959. 00:24:04,542 --> 00:24:06,250
  1960. I had multiple interviews with her,
  1961.  
  1962. 421
  1963. 00:24:06,333 --> 00:24:10,000
  1964. but one of them was to go to a
  1965. Chinese restaurant in Palo Alto.
  1966.  
  1967. 422
  1968. 00:24:10,083 --> 00:24:11,792
  1969. And it was really good food.
  1970.  
  1971. 423
  1972. 00:24:11,875 --> 00:24:15,542
  1973. I had the
  1974. blessing of being able to figure out
  1975.  
  1976. 424
  1977. 00:24:15,625 --> 00:24:17,792
  1978. what I...
  1979.  
  1980. 425
  1981. 00:24:17,875 --> 00:24:21,750
  1982. Thank you...wanted to do very early.
  1983.  
  1984. 426
  1985. 00:24:21,834 --> 00:24:25,917
  1986. And I was very interested in
  1987. the concept of creating things.
  1988.  
  1989. 427
  1990. 00:24:26,000 --> 00:24:29,750
  1991. I must've been, like, seven,
  1992. and I had a notebook
  1993.  
  1994. 428
  1995. 00:24:29,834 --> 00:24:33,166
  1996. of a complete design
  1997. for a time machine.
  1998.  
  1999. 429
  2000. 00:24:33,250 --> 00:24:35,792
  2001. It was a very detailed drawing
  2002.  
  2003. 430
  2004. 00:24:35,875 --> 00:24:38,959
  2005. of all the functionality,
  2006. in terms of the interface.
  2007.  
  2008. 431
  2009. 00:24:39,041 --> 00:24:41,333
  2010. I got really
  2011. interested in the idea
  2012.  
  2013. 432
  2014. 00:24:41,417 --> 00:24:43,583
  2015. of creating and building
  2016. something.
  2017.  
  2018. 433
  2019. 00:24:43,667 --> 00:24:46,583
  2020. But ultimately,
  2021. it became clear to me
  2022.  
  2023. 434
  2024. 00:24:46,667 --> 00:24:49,417
  2025. that the vehicle
  2026. of a business provides
  2027.  
  2028. 435
  2029. 00:24:49,500 --> 00:24:53,083
  2030. the greatest tool for being
  2031. able to affect change.
  2032.  
  2033. 436
  2034. 00:25:04,959 --> 00:25:07,291
  2035. I was very studious.
  2036.  
  2037. 437
  2038. 00:25:07,375 --> 00:25:09,542
  2039. I never really watched TV.
  2040.  
  2041. 438
  2042. 00:25:11,458 --> 00:25:14,875
  2043. As I went through school
  2044. and went through high school,
  2045.  
  2046. 439
  2047. 00:25:14,959 --> 00:25:19,083
  2048. my best friends were...
  2049. were books.
  2050.  
  2051. 440
  2052. 00:25:19,166 --> 00:25:22,125
  2053. I got into Moby Dick
  2054. and The Iliad and The Odyssey
  2055.  
  2056. 441
  2057. 00:25:22,208 --> 00:25:24,208
  2058. at a pretty young age.
  2059.  
  2060. 442
  2061. 00:25:26,041 --> 00:25:29,625
  2062. Understanding how
  2063. great people and great leaders
  2064.  
  2065. 443
  2066. 00:25:29,709 --> 00:25:31,917
  2067. led groups of people.
  2068.  
  2069. 444
  2070. 00:25:35,792 --> 00:25:39,166
  2071. So much changes in our society
  2072. technologically,
  2073.  
  2074. 445
  2075. 00:25:39,250 --> 00:25:44,208
  2076. but as humans,
  2077. we don't change a lot, you know?
  2078.  
  2079. 446
  2080. 00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:02,667
  2081. This is a high
  2082. tech atmosphere around Stanford.
  2083.  
  2084. 447
  2085. 00:26:02,750 --> 00:26:07,250
  2086. Internet, the startups,
  2087. the biotech, and medicine.
  2088.  
  2089. 448
  2090. 00:26:09,041 --> 00:26:12,000
  2091. I started on the faculty
  2092. here in 1984.
  2093.  
  2094. 449
  2095. 00:26:12,083 --> 00:26:14,000
  2096. I'm currently
  2097. a tenured professor.
  2098.  
  2099. 450
  2100. 00:26:14,083 --> 00:26:15,750
  2101. And I was on boards
  2102. of companies,
  2103.  
  2104. 451
  2105. 00:26:15,834 --> 00:26:17,500
  2106. many private
  2107. and public companies,
  2108.  
  2109. 452
  2110. 00:26:17,583 --> 00:26:19,417
  2111. and I started
  2112. a couple of companies.
  2113.  
  2114. 453
  2115. 00:26:19,500 --> 00:26:21,834
  2116. So, I tend to be sought out
  2117.  
  2118. 454
  2119. 00:26:21,917 --> 00:26:23,667
  2120. by kids who have
  2121. an interest in business.
  2122.  
  2123. 455
  2124. 00:26:23,750 --> 00:26:26,166
  2125. And people have
  2126. made fortunes.
  2127.  
  2128. 456
  2129. 00:26:26,250 --> 00:26:28,417
  2130. Students,
  2131. young people,
  2132.  
  2133. 457
  2134. 00:26:28,500 --> 00:26:30,542
  2135. turn into
  2136. multimillionaires.
  2137.  
  2138. 458
  2139. 00:26:30,625 --> 00:26:34,166
  2140. It makes for
  2141. an odd morality.
  2142.  
  2143. 459
  2144. 00:26:36,083 --> 00:26:39,166
  2145. When I was at Stanford,
  2146. I started to spend all my time
  2147.  
  2148. 460
  2149. 00:26:39,250 --> 00:26:41,750
  2150. thinking about how
  2151. you could build something
  2152.  
  2153. 461
  2154. 00:26:41,834 --> 00:26:44,792
  2155. that would change
  2156. what we know
  2157.  
  2158. 462
  2159. 00:26:44,875 --> 00:26:47,625
  2160. in terms of early detection
  2161. and prevention.
  2162.  
  2163. 463
  2164. 00:26:48,417 --> 00:26:50,792
  2165. I filed my first patent.
  2166.  
  2167. 464
  2168. 00:26:55,000 --> 00:26:57,375
  2169. One day,
  2170. Elizabeth came to me
  2171.  
  2172. 465
  2173. 00:26:57,458 --> 00:26:59,291
  2174. and she described her idea.
  2175.  
  2176. 466
  2177. 00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:03,625
  2178. She wanted to incorporate
  2179. microfluidics
  2180.  
  2181. 467
  2182. 00:27:03,709 --> 00:27:07,291
  2183. and nanotechnology
  2184. into a patch,
  2185.  
  2186. 468
  2187. 00:27:07,375 --> 00:27:09,083
  2188. where you could
  2189. sample the blood,
  2190.  
  2191. 469
  2192. 00:27:09,166 --> 00:27:11,917
  2193. and detect an infection,
  2194.  
  2195. 470
  2196. 00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:15,333
  2197. and then at that point,
  2198. deliver antibiotics through it.
  2199.  
  2200. 471
  2201. 00:27:17,375 --> 00:27:20,750
  2202. Well, you can't do that.
  2203. It's impossible, physically.
  2204.  
  2205. 472
  2206. 00:27:20,834 --> 00:27:23,041
  2207. Antibiotics are not potent.
  2208. You cannot do that.
  2209.  
  2210. 473
  2211. 00:27:23,125 --> 00:27:25,667
  2212. There's a reason you have
  2213. a big IV bag when... Okay.
  2214.  
  2215. 474
  2216. 00:27:25,750 --> 00:27:28,041
  2217. So I said,
  2218. "Elizabeth, that's fun,
  2219.  
  2220. 475
  2221. 00:27:28,125 --> 00:27:29,959
  2222. but I don't think
  2223. that's going to work."
  2224.  
  2225. 476
  2226. 00:27:32,166 --> 00:27:34,625
  2227. She was a 19-year-old.
  2228.  
  2229. 477
  2230. 00:27:34,709 --> 00:27:37,166
  2231. She never thought
  2232. she had any limits.
  2233.  
  2234. 478
  2235. 00:27:37,250 --> 00:27:39,291
  2236. She was going to conquer
  2237. the world.
  2238.  
  2239. 479
  2240. 00:27:40,125 --> 00:27:43,417
  2241. She came back twice, I think.
  2242.  
  2243. 480
  2244. 00:27:43,500 --> 00:27:45,041
  2245. And I just really...
  2246.  
  2247. 481
  2248. 00:27:45,125 --> 00:27:47,458
  2249. "I try to help students,
  2250. but I just feel I can't help you.
  2251.  
  2252. 482
  2253. 00:27:47,542 --> 00:27:49,458
  2254. "You're not listening,
  2255.  
  2256. 483
  2257. 00:27:49,542 --> 00:27:51,959
  2258. but I'll help you find
  2259. someone else to talk to."
  2260.  
  2261. 484
  2262. 00:27:55,458 --> 00:27:58,792
  2263. This used to be my advisor's office.
  2264.  
  2265. 485
  2266. 00:27:58,875 --> 00:28:00,875
  2267. We got in.
  2268.  
  2269. 486
  2270. 00:28:00,959 --> 00:28:02,643
  2271. From the very first time I met her,
  2272.  
  2273. 487
  2274. 00:28:02,667 --> 00:28:04,792
  2275. it was very clear
  2276. she was unusual.
  2277.  
  2278. 488
  2279. 00:28:04,875 --> 00:28:07,250
  2280. I've taught thousands
  2281. of students,
  2282.  
  2283. 489
  2284. 00:28:07,333 --> 00:28:09,583
  2285. probably tens of
  2286. thousands of students,
  2287.  
  2288. 490
  2289. 00:28:09,667 --> 00:28:12,125
  2290. at Stanford,
  2291. and...
  2292.  
  2293. 491
  2294. 00:28:12,208 --> 00:28:13,667
  2295. I knew right away
  2296.  
  2297. 492
  2298. 00:28:13,750 --> 00:28:18,792
  2299. that I was dealing with
  2300. something very, very different.
  2301.  
  2302. 493
  2303. 00:28:18,875 --> 00:28:21,625
  2304. Channing Robinson,
  2305. the head of the science department
  2306.  
  2307. 494
  2308. 00:28:21,709 --> 00:28:24,959
  2309. at Stanford, leaves his tenured
  2310. position to work for her?
  2311.  
  2312. 495
  2313. 00:28:25,041 --> 00:28:28,500
  2314. He just thought this
  2315. woman was something special.
  2316.  
  2317. 496
  2318. 00:28:28,583 --> 00:28:30,375
  2319. You know, gazing into her eyes,
  2320.  
  2321. 497
  2322. 00:28:30,458 --> 00:28:34,834
  2323. and realizing that he was
  2324. talking to the next...
  2325.  
  2326. 498
  2327. 00:28:34,917 --> 00:28:37,083
  2328. Steve Jobs or Bill Gates.
  2329.  
  2330. 499
  2331. 00:28:37,166 --> 00:28:39,500
  2332. There were some
  2333. other names mentioned
  2334.  
  2335. 500
  2336. 00:28:39,583 --> 00:28:42,166
  2337. during the course of our
  2338. conversation, like Archimedes.
  2339.  
  2340. 501
  2341. 00:28:44,375 --> 00:28:47,417
  2342. I actually, originally,
  2343. did not intend to drop out of Stanford,
  2344.  
  2345. 502
  2346. 00:28:47,500 --> 00:28:50,667
  2347. but I wasn't going to any classes, and so then...
  2348.  
  2349. 503
  2350. 00:28:50,750 --> 00:28:53,750
  2351. ...logistically,
  2352. it just seemed like a waste of money.
  2353.  
  2354. 504
  2355. 00:28:54,917 --> 00:28:58,667
  2356. The question was, as a 19-year-old,
  2357. how do you go about the process
  2358.  
  2359. 505
  2360. 00:28:58,750 --> 00:29:01,333
  2361. of convincing people that
  2362. you know what you're doing,
  2363.  
  2364. 506
  2365. 00:29:01,417 --> 00:29:04,667
  2366. and that you can
  2367. pull it off. Um...
  2368.  
  2369. 507
  2370. 00:29:04,750 --> 00:29:06,667
  2371. I think the first
  2372. piece is realizing
  2373.  
  2374. 508
  2375. 00:29:06,750 --> 00:29:09,667
  2376. that it's not necessarily
  2377. about age, and...
  2378.  
  2379. 509
  2380. 00:29:09,750 --> 00:29:14,542
  2381. um, people, like Steve Jobs,
  2382. and Bill Gates,
  2383.  
  2384. 510
  2385. 00:29:14,625 --> 00:29:15,709
  2386. and the Google guys,
  2387.  
  2388. 511
  2389. 00:29:15,792 --> 00:29:17,917
  2390. and Michael Dell,
  2391. and Larry Ellison,
  2392.  
  2393. 512
  2394. 00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:19,750
  2395. and others,
  2396. have demonstrated that.
  2397.  
  2398. 513
  2399. 00:29:19,834 --> 00:29:22,166
  2400. You have to have the conviction
  2401.  
  2402. 514
  2403. 00:29:22,250 --> 00:29:24,709
  2404. in yourself to be able
  2405. to make something happen
  2406.  
  2407. 515
  2408. 00:29:24,792 --> 00:29:27,083
  2409. because, ultimately,
  2410. it's up to you.
  2411.  
  2412. 516
  2413. 00:29:33,792 --> 00:29:36,458
  2414. You know, I don't think
  2415. I would want to create
  2416.  
  2417. 517
  2418. 00:29:36,542 --> 00:29:41,166
  2419. a society where people
  2420. were not overconfident
  2421.  
  2422. 518
  2423. 00:29:41,250 --> 00:29:43,208
  2424. in what they
  2425. could achieve.
  2426.  
  2427. 519
  2428. 00:29:43,291 --> 00:29:45,166
  2429. Like who would
  2430. open a restaurant
  2431.  
  2432. 520
  2433. 00:29:45,250 --> 00:29:48,417
  2434. if that was the case,
  2435. or who would...
  2436.  
  2437. 521
  2438. 00:29:48,500 --> 00:29:49,834
  2439. who would do a startup?
  2440.  
  2441. 522
  2442. 00:29:50,500 --> 00:29:52,417
  2443. But I think this is
  2444. really the issue,
  2445.  
  2446. 523
  2447. 00:29:52,500 --> 00:29:56,166
  2448. is to say how do you
  2449. become a person of vision
  2450.  
  2451. 524
  2452. 00:29:56,250 --> 00:29:57,625
  2453. on one hand,
  2454.  
  2455. 525
  2456. 00:29:57,709 --> 00:30:00,041
  2457. and how do you
  2458. sell that vision
  2459.  
  2460. 526
  2461. 00:30:00,125 --> 00:30:01,583
  2462. on the other hand,
  2463.  
  2464. 527
  2465. 00:30:01,667 --> 00:30:04,125
  2466. but you also want to stay...
  2467.  
  2468. 528
  2469. 00:30:04,208 --> 00:30:07,500
  2470. not realistic, but, you know,
  2471. little closer to realistic
  2472.  
  2473. 529
  2474. 00:30:08,834 --> 00:30:10,291
  2475. when the task needs it.
  2476.  
  2477. 530
  2478. 00:30:10,375 --> 00:30:12,351
  2479. You have to be able
  2480. not to buy your own bullshit.
  2481.  
  2482. 531
  2483. 00:30:12,375 --> 00:30:14,333
  2484. Yes.
  2485.  
  2486. 532
  2487. 00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:25,166
  2488. You incorporate the company in '04.
  2489.  
  2490. 533
  2491. 00:30:25,250 --> 00:30:28,583
  2492. - Yeah.
  2493. - What happened in the intervening nine years?
  2494.  
  2495. 534
  2496. 00:30:28,667 --> 00:30:30,709
  2497. Our work during that period of time
  2498.  
  2499. 535
  2500. 00:30:30,792 --> 00:30:33,083
  2501. was for pharmaceutical
  2502. companies,
  2503.  
  2504. 536
  2505. 00:30:33,166 --> 00:30:37,250
  2506. and for developing
  2507. applications for the military.
  2508.  
  2509. 537
  2510. 00:30:37,333 --> 00:30:39,750
  2511. But that model's
  2512. going to evolve now
  2513.  
  2514. 538
  2515. 00:30:39,834 --> 00:30:42,333
  2516. 'cause we're at another
  2517. inflection point
  2518.  
  2519. 539
  2520. 00:30:42,417 --> 00:30:46,667
  2521. - in our life cycle...
  2522. - But are you thinking about an IPO or...
  2523.  
  2524. 540
  2525. 00:30:46,750 --> 00:30:50,208
  2526. Well,
  2527. we really believe that there's value
  2528.  
  2529. 541
  2530. 00:30:50,291 --> 00:30:51,792
  2531. in being a private company.
  2532.  
  2533. 542
  2534. 00:30:51,875 --> 00:30:56,792
  2535. It's allowed us
  2536. to not have to talk about,
  2537.  
  2538. 543
  2539. 00:30:56,875 --> 00:31:01,250
  2540. you know, what we're doing
  2541. until it's done and introduce,
  2542.  
  2543. 544
  2544. 00:31:01,333 --> 00:31:04,333
  2545. you know, incredible
  2546. innovation without...
  2547.  
  2548. 545
  2549. 00:31:04,417 --> 00:31:07,792
  2550. Using just her story
  2551. as the blueprint for success,
  2552.  
  2553. 546
  2554. 00:31:07,875 --> 00:31:09,959
  2555. Holmes would convince
  2556. private investors
  2557.  
  2558. 547
  2559. 00:31:10,041 --> 00:31:12,500
  2560. to put up hundreds
  2561. of millions of dollars
  2562.  
  2563. 548
  2564. 00:31:12,583 --> 00:31:16,458
  2565. without ever looking at
  2566. audited financial statements.
  2567.  
  2568. 549
  2569. 00:31:16,542 --> 00:31:20,250
  2570. We like to think that investing
  2571. is a rational equation,
  2572.  
  2573. 550
  2574. 00:31:20,333 --> 00:31:23,583
  2575. a careful balance sheet
  2576. of risk and reward.
  2577.  
  2578. 551
  2579. 00:31:23,667 --> 00:31:25,333
  2580. But in fact, investors,
  2581.  
  2582. 552
  2583. 00:31:25,417 --> 00:31:27,041
  2584. particularly ones
  2585. who come in early,
  2586.  
  2587. 553
  2588. 00:31:27,125 --> 00:31:29,041
  2589. are often guided by their gut.
  2590.  
  2591. 554
  2592. 00:31:29,125 --> 00:31:30,583
  2593. Instead of relying on facts,
  2594.  
  2595. 555
  2596. 00:31:30,667 --> 00:31:33,959
  2597. early investing can be more
  2598. like a wing and a prayer.
  2599.  
  2600. 556
  2601. 00:31:34,041 --> 00:31:37,083
  2602. The word credit comes
  2603. from the Latin word credo,
  2604.  
  2605. 557
  2606. 00:31:37,166 --> 00:31:39,959
  2607. which means "I believe."
  2608.  
  2609. 558
  2610. 00:31:40,041 --> 00:31:42,333
  2611. Some of the early
  2612. believers included
  2613.  
  2614. 559
  2615. 00:31:42,417 --> 00:31:45,542
  2616. a former head of software
  2617. at Apple, Avie Tevanian,
  2618.  
  2619. 560
  2620. 00:31:45,625 --> 00:31:48,250
  2621. Oracle's founder,
  2622. Larry Ellison,
  2623.  
  2624. 561
  2625. 00:31:48,333 --> 00:31:51,917
  2626. and a founding investor
  2627. of Oracle, Don Lucas.
  2628.  
  2629. 562
  2630. 00:31:52,000 --> 00:31:54,041
  2631. They conferred
  2632. respectability on Elizabeth,
  2633.  
  2634. 563
  2635. 00:31:54,125 --> 00:31:56,500
  2636. even though they had
  2637. no record to go on,
  2638.  
  2639. 564
  2640. 00:31:56,583 --> 00:31:59,375
  2641. just a vague belief
  2642. that business and medicine
  2643.  
  2644. 565
  2645. 00:31:59,458 --> 00:32:01,542
  2646. were in her blood.
  2647.  
  2648. 566
  2649. 00:32:01,625 --> 00:32:04,375
  2650. I think she probably was 21 years old,
  2651.  
  2652. 567
  2653. 00:32:04,458 --> 00:32:06,166
  2654. had no background
  2655. in business,
  2656.  
  2657. 568
  2658. 00:32:06,250 --> 00:32:09,125
  2659. but her great-grandfather
  2660. was an entrepreneur.
  2661.  
  2662. 569
  2663. 00:32:09,208 --> 00:32:10,434
  2664. So, that's on
  2665. the entrepreneur's side,
  2666.  
  2667. 570
  2668. 00:32:10,458 --> 00:32:11,685
  2669. but she was on
  2670. the medical side.
  2671.  
  2672. 571
  2673. 00:32:11,709 --> 00:32:12,917
  2674. Ah, turns out later
  2675.  
  2676. 572
  2677. 00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:15,500
  2678. the hospital in there,
  2679. where they live
  2680.  
  2681. 573
  2682. 00:32:15,583 --> 00:32:17,750
  2683. is named after her great-uncle,
  2684.  
  2685. 574
  2686. 00:32:17,834 --> 00:32:21,959
  2687. who was involved with medicine,
  2688. so she came by both of these...
  2689.  
  2690. 575
  2691. 00:32:22,458 --> 00:32:24,458
  2692. the two things
  2693. that are necessary here,
  2694.  
  2695. 576
  2696. 00:32:24,542 --> 00:32:27,792
  2697. one medicine
  2698. and the other entrepreneur...
  2699.  
  2700. 577
  2701. 00:32:29,083 --> 00:32:30,458
  2702. quite naturally.
  2703.  
  2704. 578
  2705. 00:32:32,500 --> 00:32:35,667
  2706. I remember the day Elizabeth came in,
  2707.  
  2708. 579
  2709. 00:32:35,750 --> 00:32:37,208
  2710. full of vim and vigor,
  2711.  
  2712. 580
  2713. 00:32:37,291 --> 00:32:40,125
  2714. and said, "I'm dropping
  2715. out of Stanford."
  2716.  
  2717. 581
  2718. 00:32:40,208 --> 00:32:41,583
  2719. And I knew her parents,
  2720.  
  2721. 582
  2722. 00:32:41,667 --> 00:32:44,625
  2723. and I knew her and her brother
  2724. as they were growing up.
  2725.  
  2726. 583
  2727. 00:32:44,709 --> 00:32:47,250
  2728. She was a good friend
  2729. of my daughter's.
  2730.  
  2731. 584
  2732. 00:32:47,333 --> 00:32:48,750
  2733. I said, "Do your
  2734. parents know
  2735.  
  2736. 585
  2737. 00:32:48,834 --> 00:32:50,393
  2738. you're dropping out
  2739. of Stanford?" She said,
  2740.  
  2741. 586
  2742. 00:32:50,417 --> 00:32:53,250
  2743. "Yes, yes!
  2744. And they agree, and it's a great thing.
  2745.  
  2746. 587
  2747. 00:32:53,333 --> 00:32:55,291
  2748. "And I learned at Stanford
  2749.  
  2750. 588
  2751. 00:32:55,375 --> 00:32:57,917
  2752. "how this whole health care
  2753. thing is working,
  2754.  
  2755. 589
  2756. 00:32:58,000 --> 00:32:59,750
  2757. and it's just not."
  2758.  
  2759. 590
  2760. 00:32:59,834 --> 00:33:02,000
  2761. And then she said,
  2762. "I'm going to change health care
  2763.  
  2764. 591
  2765. 00:33:02,083 --> 00:33:04,792
  2766. as we know it."
  2767. I was all over it.
  2768.  
  2769. 592
  2770. 00:33:04,875 --> 00:33:07,750
  2771. I thought that was
  2772. a great opportunity.
  2773.  
  2774. 593
  2775. 00:33:08,333 --> 00:33:10,709
  2776. I mean,
  2777. Elizabeth was a family friend.
  2778.  
  2779. 594
  2780. 00:33:10,792 --> 00:33:13,083
  2781. You'd known her since
  2782. she was a little girl.
  2783.  
  2784. 595
  2785. 00:33:13,166 --> 00:33:14,625
  2786. Did that go
  2787. into your thinking,
  2788.  
  2789. 596
  2790. 00:33:14,709 --> 00:33:16,291
  2791. in terms of your
  2792. initial investment?
  2793.  
  2794. 597
  2795. 00:33:16,375 --> 00:33:20,417
  2796. No. We've been... I've been in
  2797. the venture business a long time.
  2798.  
  2799. 598
  2800. 00:33:20,500 --> 00:33:23,667
  2801. I was the first investor in Tesla,
  2802. first investor in Skype,
  2803.  
  2804. 599
  2805. 00:33:23,750 --> 00:33:26,959
  2806. first investor in Baidu,
  2807. first investor in Hotmail.
  2808.  
  2809. 600
  2810. 00:33:27,041 --> 00:33:28,583
  2811. I always invest early.
  2812.  
  2813. 601
  2814. 00:33:28,667 --> 00:33:30,875
  2815. I invest when I see a vision,
  2816.  
  2817. 602
  2818. 00:33:30,959 --> 00:33:32,333
  2819. I see the opportunity,
  2820.  
  2821. 603
  2822. 00:33:32,417 --> 00:33:36,417
  2823. and I see the person who
  2824. I think can make it there.
  2825.  
  2826. 604
  2827. 00:33:36,500 --> 00:33:38,959
  2828. I mean, we invest in, you know,
  2829.  
  2830. 605
  2831. 00:33:39,041 --> 00:33:42,792
  2832. a girl and a dog,
  2833. or two guys and a cat.
  2834.  
  2835. 606
  2836. 00:33:42,875 --> 00:33:46,083
  2837. We just say, "Is this person
  2838. going to dedicate their life,
  2839.  
  2840. 607
  2841. 00:33:46,166 --> 00:33:49,333
  2842. and make something
  2843. extraordinary happen?"
  2844.  
  2845. 608
  2846. 00:33:49,417 --> 00:33:52,709
  2847. And yes, in that case,
  2848. she was that person.
  2849.  
  2850. 609
  2851. 00:33:55,542 --> 00:33:58,125
  2852. So, the reality is that data
  2853.  
  2854. 610
  2855. 00:33:58,208 --> 00:34:01,041
  2856. just doesn't sit in our mind
  2857.  
  2858. 611
  2859. 00:34:01,125 --> 00:34:03,625
  2860. as much as stories do.
  2861.  
  2862. 612
  2863. 00:34:03,709 --> 00:34:07,417
  2864. It's almost like the glue
  2865. that takes all of the data,
  2866.  
  2867. 613
  2868. 00:34:07,917 --> 00:34:09,500
  2869. and even more important,
  2870.  
  2871. 614
  2872. 00:34:09,583 --> 00:34:13,125
  2873. stories have emotions
  2874. that data doesn't.
  2875.  
  2876. 615
  2877. 00:34:13,208 --> 00:34:15,041
  2878. And emotions get people to...
  2879.  
  2880. 616
  2881. 00:34:15,125 --> 00:34:18,166
  2882. to do all kinds of things,
  2883. good and bad.
  2884.  
  2885. 617
  2886. 00:34:18,250 --> 00:34:23,208
  2887. And if you think about the
  2888. people who invested in her
  2889.  
  2890. 618
  2891. 00:34:23,291 --> 00:34:25,208
  2892. with very little
  2893. amount of data,
  2894.  
  2895. 619
  2896. 00:34:25,291 --> 00:34:28,000
  2897. it's about having an emotional
  2898. appeal and about having trust,
  2899.  
  2900. 620
  2901. 00:34:28,083 --> 00:34:31,291
  2902. and believing the story,
  2903. and being moved by this,
  2904.  
  2905. 621
  2906. 00:34:31,375 --> 00:34:33,500
  2907. and being able to tell
  2908. themselves a story.
  2909.  
  2910. 622
  2911. 00:34:36,750 --> 00:34:39,267
  2912. For 10 years, we did this work.
  2913. We didn't have a website.
  2914.  
  2915. 623
  2916. 00:34:39,291 --> 00:34:41,625
  2917. We never put out
  2918. a press release.
  2919.  
  2920. 624
  2921. 00:34:41,709 --> 00:34:43,625
  2922. It was completely heads down.
  2923.  
  2924. 625
  2925. 00:34:43,709 --> 00:34:46,125
  2926. When we got to a point
  2927. in which we realized
  2928.  
  2929. 626
  2930. 00:34:46,208 --> 00:34:50,041
  2931. that what we were doing
  2932. could serve individuals,
  2933.  
  2934. 627
  2935. 00:34:50,125 --> 00:34:52,166
  2936. I wanted to find the people
  2937.  
  2938. 628
  2939. 00:34:52,250 --> 00:34:55,458
  2940. who were just
  2941. strategically brilliant.
  2942.  
  2943. 629
  2944. 00:34:57,208 --> 00:34:59,625
  2945. General Mattis,
  2946. who was former
  2947.  
  2948. 630
  2949. 00:34:59,709 --> 00:35:02,834
  2950. CENTCON Commander,
  2951. is one of our board members.
  2952.  
  2953. 631
  2954. 00:35:02,917 --> 00:35:04,709
  2955. Dick Kovacevich, who is
  2956.  
  2957. 632
  2958. 00:35:04,792 --> 00:35:07,750
  2959. the former CEO of
  2960. Wells Fargo is another.
  2961.  
  2962. 633
  2963. 00:35:07,834 --> 00:35:10,041
  2964. Sam Nunn has done
  2965. some incredible work
  2966.  
  2967. 634
  2968. 00:35:10,125 --> 00:35:13,458
  2969. on nuclear threats
  2970. as well as biothreats.
  2971.  
  2972. 635
  2973. 00:35:13,542 --> 00:35:15,875
  2974. Bill Perry,
  2975. former secretary of defense.
  2976.  
  2977. 636
  2978. 00:35:15,959 --> 00:35:18,792
  2979. Henry Kissinger,
  2980. former secretary of state.
  2981.  
  2982. 637
  2983. 00:35:18,875 --> 00:35:20,542
  2984. And George Shultz,
  2985.  
  2986. 638
  2987. 00:35:20,625 --> 00:35:23,208
  2988. who was secretary of state
  2989.  
  2990. 639
  2991. 00:35:23,291 --> 00:35:28,000
  2992. and labor
  2993. and secretary of treasury.
  2994.  
  2995. 640
  2996. 00:35:28,083 --> 00:35:30,959
  2997. About three years ago,
  2998. I looked at her and I said, "Well,
  2999.  
  3000. 641
  3001. 00:35:31,041 --> 00:35:33,959
  3002. I'm about to have a meeting with
  3003. a friend of my granddaughter."
  3004.  
  3005. 642
  3006. 00:35:35,583 --> 00:35:37,250
  3007. - Yes.
  3008. - As soon as she started talking,
  3009.  
  3010. 643
  3011. 00:35:37,333 --> 00:35:38,917
  3012. I did a double take...
  3013.  
  3014. 644
  3015. 00:35:39,000 --> 00:35:41,917
  3016. I first met Elizabeth
  3017. in my grandfather's living room.
  3018.  
  3019. 645
  3020. 00:35:42,000 --> 00:35:44,184
  3021. So, he had called me up and
  3022. said that he was going to have
  3023.  
  3024. 646
  3025. 00:35:44,208 --> 00:35:47,417
  3026. some brilliant woman over
  3027. to have a discussion.
  3028.  
  3029. 647
  3030. 00:35:47,500 --> 00:35:50,083
  3031. He thought that
  3032. I would be interested
  3033.  
  3034. 648
  3035. 00:35:50,166 --> 00:35:52,250
  3036. in coming,
  3037. so I went to his house.
  3038.  
  3039. 649
  3040. 00:35:52,333 --> 00:35:54,250
  3041. It was me,
  3042. my grandfather, Elizabeth,
  3043.  
  3044. 650
  3045. 00:35:54,333 --> 00:35:56,917
  3046. and Dianne Feinstein
  3047. was there as well.
  3048.  
  3049. 651
  3050. 00:35:57,500 --> 00:36:01,375
  3051. Elizabeth kind of pitched
  3052. her dream of changing the way
  3053.  
  3054. 652
  3055. 00:36:01,458 --> 00:36:04,166
  3056. diagnostics is done, really
  3057. revolutionizing the field.
  3058.  
  3059. 653
  3060. 00:36:04,250 --> 00:36:06,750
  3061. Yeah, I was totally
  3062. gung-ho about Theranos.
  3063.  
  3064. 654
  3065. 00:36:06,834 --> 00:36:09,625
  3066. I was really excited about
  3067. what she was talking about.
  3068.  
  3069. 655
  3070. 00:36:09,709 --> 00:36:12,208
  3071. I really wanted to know
  3072. what the technology was.
  3073.  
  3074. 656
  3075. 00:36:12,834 --> 00:36:14,667
  3076. And I actually asked her,
  3077. in that meeting,
  3078.  
  3079. 657
  3080. 00:36:14,750 --> 00:36:16,458
  3081. if I could intern
  3082. there over the summer.
  3083.  
  3084. 658
  3085. 00:36:16,542 --> 00:36:18,583
  3086. I said,
  3087. do you guys take interns?
  3088.  
  3089. 659
  3090. 00:36:18,667 --> 00:36:21,208
  3091. Like, I want to work on this.
  3092. This sounds amazing.
  3093.  
  3094. 660
  3095. 00:36:21,291 --> 00:36:23,333
  3096. We think that...
  3097.  
  3098. 661
  3099. 00:36:24,041 --> 00:36:25,792
  3100. there's going to be a revolution
  3101.  
  3102. 662
  3103. 00:36:25,875 --> 00:36:27,583
  3104. in preventive medicine.
  3105.  
  3106. 663
  3107. 00:36:27,667 --> 00:36:31,166
  3108. I mean, he had a really close
  3109. relationship with Elizabeth.
  3110.  
  3111. 664
  3112. 00:36:31,250 --> 00:36:34,750
  3113. She was almost like...
  3114. becoming part of the family.
  3115.  
  3116. 665
  3117. 00:36:34,834 --> 00:36:38,458
  3118. She was coming to our birthday
  3119. parties and Christmases.
  3120.  
  3121. 666
  3122. 00:36:38,542 --> 00:36:41,125
  3123. We think this is one
  3124. of the most optimistic things
  3125.  
  3126. 667
  3127. 00:36:41,208 --> 00:36:42,625
  3128. out there
  3129.  
  3130. 668
  3131. 00:36:42,709 --> 00:36:45,875
  3132. about the health care system
  3133. and its costs and its problems.
  3134.  
  3135. 669
  3136. 00:36:45,959 --> 00:36:49,709
  3137. You talk to George Shultz.
  3138. He's a very impressive man.
  3139.  
  3140. 670
  3141. 00:36:49,792 --> 00:36:52,834
  3142. And I was impressed that he
  3143. adopted her like a daughter.
  3144.  
  3145. 671
  3146. 00:36:52,917 --> 00:36:54,625
  3147. He really believed in her.
  3148.  
  3149. 672
  3150. 00:36:54,709 --> 00:36:57,166
  3151. From the outside,
  3152. all you're thinking is,
  3153.  
  3154. 673
  3155. 00:36:57,250 --> 00:36:59,000
  3156. wow,
  3157. what a board!
  3158.  
  3159. 674
  3160. 00:36:59,083 --> 00:37:01,000
  3161. Right? I mean,
  3162. it's just impressive.
  3163.  
  3164. 675
  3165. 00:37:01,083 --> 00:37:03,583
  3166. And they were really...
  3167. And I talked to most of them.
  3168.  
  3169. 676
  3170. 00:37:03,667 --> 00:37:05,787
  3171. They were impressed with...
  3172. really impressed with her.
  3173.  
  3174. 677
  3175. 00:37:05,834 --> 00:37:07,976
  3176. This is General Mattis.
  3177. I assume we're on the record,
  3178.  
  3179. 678
  3180. 00:37:08,000 --> 00:37:10,101
  3181. unless you tell me not, and
  3182. I'll shut off this recorder.
  3183.  
  3184. 679
  3185. 00:37:10,125 --> 00:37:11,625
  3186. - But...
  3187. - Okay.
  3188.  
  3189. 680
  3190. 00:37:11,709 --> 00:37:13,750
  3191. When you think of Elizabeth,
  3192.  
  3193. 681
  3194. 00:37:13,834 --> 00:37:15,834
  3195. what are the first words
  3196. that come to your mind?
  3197.  
  3198. 682
  3199. 00:37:15,917 --> 00:37:18,500
  3200. First is integrity,
  3201.  
  3202. 683
  3203. 00:37:18,583 --> 00:37:20,542
  3204. uh, competence,
  3205.  
  3206. 684
  3207. 00:37:20,625 --> 00:37:23,792
  3208. and competence is both
  3209. technical, scientific,
  3210.  
  3211. 685
  3212. 00:37:23,875 --> 00:37:26,667
  3213. but also focused
  3214. on human rights
  3215.  
  3216. 686
  3217. 00:37:26,750 --> 00:37:29,208
  3218. in the most classical
  3219. sense of what
  3220.  
  3221. 687
  3222. 00:37:29,291 --> 00:37:30,834
  3223. human rights are about.
  3224.  
  3225. 688
  3226. 00:37:30,917 --> 00:37:33,917
  3227. And all of a sudden,
  3228. you have the ability to know
  3229.  
  3230. 689
  3231. 00:37:34,000 --> 00:37:36,375
  3232. if someone is ill
  3233. or not. I mean,
  3234.  
  3235. 690
  3236. 00:37:36,458 --> 00:37:39,583
  3237. literally,
  3238. within minutes of taking...
  3239.  
  3240. 691
  3241. 00:37:39,667 --> 00:37:41,875
  3242. you know, a drop of blood.
  3243.  
  3244. 692
  3245. 00:37:41,959 --> 00:37:44,375
  3246. And I mean, she is really...
  3247.  
  3248. 693
  3249. 00:37:44,458 --> 00:37:47,959
  3250. a revolutionary
  3251. in the truest sense.
  3252.  
  3253. 694
  3254. 00:37:49,291 --> 00:37:52,542
  3255. It was quite amazing to spend
  3256. time with these people.
  3257.  
  3258. 695
  3259. 00:37:52,625 --> 00:37:54,875
  3260. They were talking about her
  3261. as if she were Beethoven.
  3262.  
  3263. 696
  3264. 00:38:00,959 --> 00:38:03,375
  3265. As if she was
  3266. this rare creature
  3267.  
  3268. 697
  3269. 00:38:03,458 --> 00:38:07,041
  3270. that maybe one in a century
  3271. or two in a century come along,
  3272.  
  3273. 698
  3274. 00:38:07,125 --> 00:38:09,834
  3275. who really can
  3276. change the world.
  3277.  
  3278. 699
  3279. 00:38:12,750 --> 00:38:14,875
  3280. And I remember when
  3281. I interviewed Henry Kissinger,
  3282.  
  3283. 700
  3284. 00:38:14,959 --> 00:38:17,083
  3285. I didn't trust him
  3286. on medical stuff,
  3287.  
  3288. 701
  3289. 00:38:17,166 --> 00:38:20,458
  3290. not to mention on Cambodia,
  3291. but...
  3292.  
  3293. 702
  3294. 00:38:20,542 --> 00:38:21,917
  3295. But when I asked him about her,
  3296.  
  3297. 703
  3298. 00:38:22,000 --> 00:38:23,208
  3299. he described...
  3300.  
  3301. 704
  3302. 00:38:23,291 --> 00:38:25,208
  3303. Excellent businesswoman.
  3304.  
  3305. 705
  3306. 00:38:25,291 --> 00:38:28,709
  3307. Let me see that I can put
  3308. this on speaker for a minute.
  3309.  
  3310. 706
  3311. 00:38:28,792 --> 00:38:31,000
  3312. - Be easier for me.
  3313. - Okay.
  3314.  
  3315. 707
  3316. 00:38:34,166 --> 00:38:36,542
  3317. Yeah, but
  3318. I don't know how to do that.
  3319.  
  3320. 708
  3321. 00:38:38,000 --> 00:38:39,875
  3322. You put it on ho...
  3323.  
  3324. 709
  3325. 00:38:39,959 --> 00:38:42,542
  3326. - How about it now?
  3327. - I hear you loud and clear.
  3328.  
  3329. 710
  3330. 00:38:42,625 --> 00:38:44,166
  3331. - You okay?
  3332. - Perfect.
  3333.  
  3334. 711
  3335. 00:38:44,250 --> 00:38:47,333
  3336. What's your impression
  3337. of how she runs the board?
  3338.  
  3339. 712
  3340. 00:38:56,792 --> 00:39:00,291
  3341. I'm told you once said
  3342. that these board meetings,
  3343.  
  3344. 713
  3345. 00:39:00,375 --> 00:39:02,333
  3346. which go on all day...
  3347.  
  3348. 714
  3349. 00:39:10,959 --> 00:39:13,159
  3350. You know,
  3351. whatever you think of Henry Kissinger,
  3352.  
  3353. 715
  3354. 00:39:13,208 --> 00:39:16,625
  3355. he's met a lot of leaders,
  3356. he's met a lot of world leaders,
  3357.  
  3358. 716
  3359. 00:39:16,709 --> 00:39:18,291
  3360. he met a lot
  3361. of corporate leaders.
  3362.  
  3363. 717
  3364. 00:39:18,375 --> 00:39:20,041
  3365. I thought he might be a judge,
  3366.  
  3367. 718
  3368. 00:39:20,125 --> 00:39:22,625
  3369. but the truth is that
  3370.  
  3371. 719
  3372. 00:39:22,709 --> 00:39:26,458
  3373. none of these people were really
  3374. in a position to know what...
  3375.  
  3376. 720
  3377. 00:39:26,542 --> 00:39:29,792
  3378. - To judge 'cause they didn't have the qualifications.
  3379. - Yeah. No. No.
  3380.  
  3381. 721
  3382. 00:39:29,875 --> 00:39:32,041
  3383. She didn't really
  3384. want scientific input
  3385.  
  3386. 722
  3387. 00:39:32,125 --> 00:39:34,333
  3388. from what I could determine.
  3389.  
  3390. 723
  3391. 00:39:34,417 --> 00:39:36,667
  3392. Engineering a bit more
  3393.  
  3394. 724
  3395. 00:39:36,750 --> 00:39:38,792
  3396. 'cause she was inventing
  3397. an engineering device,
  3398.  
  3399. 725
  3400. 00:39:38,875 --> 00:39:40,250
  3401. but not medicine.
  3402.  
  3403. 726
  3404. 00:39:40,333 --> 00:39:43,333
  3405. She aligned herself
  3406. with very powerful older men
  3407.  
  3408. 727
  3409. 00:39:43,417 --> 00:39:47,750
  3410. who seemed to succumb
  3411. to a certain charm, and...
  3412.  
  3413. 728
  3414. 00:39:47,834 --> 00:39:51,375
  3415. those powerful men
  3416. could influence people
  3417.  
  3418. 729
  3419. 00:39:51,458 --> 00:39:52,917
  3420. in the government,
  3421.  
  3422. 730
  3423. 00:39:53,000 --> 00:39:55,458
  3424. influence
  3425. the Department of Defense.
  3426.  
  3427. 731
  3428. 00:39:55,542 --> 00:39:59,375
  3429. When I asked her was this all
  3430. about getting government contracts,
  3431.  
  3432. 732
  3433. 00:39:59,458 --> 00:40:01,667
  3434. she danced around
  3435. my questions about that.
  3436.  
  3437. 733
  3438. 00:40:01,750 --> 00:40:04,000
  3439. Everything that we're doing
  3440.  
  3441. 734
  3442. 00:40:04,083 --> 00:40:07,333
  3443. may go into certain work
  3444. we do for the military,
  3445.  
  3446. 735
  3447. 00:40:07,417 --> 00:40:09,834
  3448. which we really couldn't
  3449. put on the record.
  3450.  
  3451. 736
  3452. 00:40:09,917 --> 00:40:12,166
  3453. Well, off the record,
  3454. we were doing some work
  3455.  
  3456. 737
  3457. 00:40:12,250 --> 00:40:14,834
  3458. for the military,
  3459. which we can talk about off the record.
  3460.  
  3461. 738
  3462. 00:40:14,917 --> 00:40:16,667
  3463. Why would that be off the record?
  3464.  
  3465. 739
  3466. 00:40:16,750 --> 00:40:19,000
  3467. You know, generally,
  3468. our philosophy on these things is
  3469.  
  3470. 740
  3471. 00:40:19,083 --> 00:40:21,500
  3472. talk about it if there's
  3473. a purpose to talking about it,
  3474.  
  3475. 741
  3476. 00:40:21,583 --> 00:40:22,750
  3477. and there just...
  3478.  
  3479. 742
  3480. 00:40:22,834 --> 00:40:25,000
  3481. So,
  3482. could you say anything about
  3483.  
  3484. 743
  3485. 00:40:25,083 --> 00:40:27,458
  3486. the military contracts
  3487. you have? I mean...
  3488.  
  3489. 744
  3490. 00:40:28,750 --> 00:40:31,375
  3491. No.
  3492.  
  3493. 745
  3494. 00:40:31,458 --> 00:40:34,083
  3495. When you... I'm going to make
  3496. you feel guilty at some point.
  3497.  
  3498. 746
  3499. 00:40:34,166 --> 00:40:38,083
  3500. You already have.
  3501. You're good at it too.
  3502.  
  3503. 747
  3504. 00:40:38,166 --> 00:40:40,542
  3505. In conversations,
  3506. Elizabeth suggested
  3507.  
  3508. 748
  3509. 00:40:40,625 --> 00:40:43,041
  3510. that she had contracts
  3511. with the military.
  3512.  
  3513. 749
  3514. 00:40:43,125 --> 00:40:44,834
  3515. In a mock-up of
  3516. marketing materials,
  3517.  
  3518. 750
  3519. 00:40:44,917 --> 00:40:47,750
  3520. Theranos invented a quote
  3521. from General Mattis
  3522.  
  3523. 751
  3524. 00:40:47,834 --> 00:40:49,709
  3525. about a battle plan
  3526. to use Edisons
  3527.  
  3528. 752
  3529. 00:40:49,792 --> 00:40:52,583
  3530. on wounded soldiers
  3531. in combat zones,
  3532.  
  3533. 753
  3534. 00:40:52,667 --> 00:40:54,417
  3535. but this never happened.
  3536.  
  3537. 754
  3538. 00:40:54,500 --> 00:40:57,875
  3539. Before permitting Theranos to
  3540. use the machines on soldiers,
  3541.  
  3542. 755
  3543. 00:40:57,959 --> 00:41:01,000
  3544. Pentagon officials wanted
  3545. to run their own tests,
  3546.  
  3547. 756
  3548. 00:41:01,083 --> 00:41:02,583
  3549. but Elizabeth declined.
  3550.  
  3551. 757
  3552. 00:41:02,667 --> 00:41:05,250
  3553. She had a policy of
  3554. controlling demonstrations
  3555.  
  3556. 758
  3557. 00:41:05,333 --> 00:41:07,083
  3558. and tightly guarding access
  3559.  
  3560. 759
  3561. 00:41:07,166 --> 00:41:09,458
  3562. to the Edison prototypes.
  3563.  
  3564. 760
  3565. 00:41:09,542 --> 00:41:10,875
  3566. I pressed them
  3567.  
  3568. 761
  3569. 00:41:10,959 --> 00:41:14,083
  3570. repeatedly, and I wasn't
  3571. allowed, and finally,
  3572.  
  3573. 762
  3574. 00:41:14,166 --> 00:41:17,375
  3575. I persisted in asking.
  3576. "I need to see the machine."
  3577.  
  3578. 763
  3579. 00:41:17,458 --> 00:41:19,542
  3580. And she said to me,
  3581.  
  3582. 764
  3583. 00:41:19,625 --> 00:41:21,583
  3584. "All right, we'll let
  3585. you see the machine,
  3586.  
  3587. 765
  3588. 00:41:21,667 --> 00:41:25,625
  3589. but you have to agree not
  3590. to describe the machine."
  3591.  
  3592. 766
  3593. 00:41:34,583 --> 00:41:36,792
  3594. It was downstairs,
  3595.  
  3596. 767
  3597. 00:41:36,875 --> 00:41:40,625
  3598. in an area you couldn't see
  3599. from all the glassed offices.
  3600.  
  3601. 768
  3602. 00:41:46,166 --> 00:41:49,250
  3603. The lab is a large,
  3604. labyrinthian place
  3605.  
  3606. 769
  3607. 00:41:49,333 --> 00:41:51,875
  3608. bustling with chemists
  3609. and technicians,
  3610.  
  3611. 770
  3612. 00:41:51,959 --> 00:41:54,041
  3613. and housing rows of machines,
  3614.  
  3615. 771
  3616. 00:41:54,125 --> 00:41:56,458
  3617. each easy for
  3618. a single person to lift,
  3619.  
  3620. 772
  3621. 00:41:56,542 --> 00:41:59,417
  3622. in which the container
  3623. of blood is placed.
  3624.  
  3625. 773
  3626. 00:42:00,709 --> 00:42:03,125
  3627. What exactly happens
  3628. in the machine
  3629.  
  3630. 774
  3631. 00:42:03,208 --> 00:42:05,291
  3632. is treated as a state secret,
  3633.  
  3634. 775
  3635. 00:42:05,375 --> 00:42:07,917
  3636. and Holmes's description
  3637. of the process
  3638.  
  3639. 776
  3640. 00:42:08,000 --> 00:42:10,000
  3641. was comically vague.
  3642.  
  3643. 777
  3644. 00:42:10,917 --> 00:42:14,625
  3645. A chemistry is performed,
  3646.  
  3647. 778
  3648. 00:42:14,709 --> 00:42:16,750
  3649. so a chemical reaction occurs
  3650.  
  3651. 779
  3652. 00:42:16,834 --> 00:42:18,750
  3653. and generates a signal
  3654.  
  3655. 780
  3656. 00:42:18,834 --> 00:42:22,083
  3657. from the chemical interaction
  3658. with the sample,
  3659.  
  3660. 781
  3661. 00:42:22,166 --> 00:42:25,083
  3662. which is then translated
  3663. into a result...
  3664.  
  3665. 782
  3666. 00:42:25,166 --> 00:42:27,333
  3667. "Which is then
  3668. reviewed by certified
  3669.  
  3670. 783
  3671. 00:42:27,417 --> 00:42:29,291
  3672. laboratory personnel."
  3673.  
  3674. 784
  3675. 00:42:30,000 --> 00:42:33,625
  3676. End quote. She added
  3677. that thanks to, quote...
  3678.  
  3679. 785
  3680. 00:42:33,709 --> 00:42:35,458
  3681. Miniaturization
  3682.  
  3683. 786
  3684. 00:42:35,542 --> 00:42:39,667
  3685. "and associated automation
  3686. that we're able to...
  3687.  
  3688. 787
  3689. 00:42:39,750 --> 00:42:41,834
  3690. handle these tiny samples.
  3691.  
  3692. 788
  3693. 00:42:58,041 --> 00:43:00,667
  3694. All right, so...
  3695.  
  3696. 789
  3697. 00:43:00,750 --> 00:43:02,542
  3698. Comments? Sunny?
  3699.  
  3700. 790
  3701. 00:43:04,083 --> 00:43:06,417
  3702. So, I just want
  3703. to expand a little bit
  3704.  
  3705. 791
  3706. 00:43:06,500 --> 00:43:08,667
  3707. on a comment
  3708. that Elizabeth made.
  3709.  
  3710. 792
  3711. 00:43:08,750 --> 00:43:12,250
  3712. You know, we are a very
  3713. conservative company
  3714.  
  3715. 793
  3716. 00:43:12,333 --> 00:43:13,917
  3717. because we think
  3718.  
  3719. 794
  3720. 00:43:14,000 --> 00:43:17,542
  3721. that you should get things done
  3722. before you talk about them.
  3723.  
  3724. 795
  3725. 00:43:17,625 --> 00:43:20,208
  3726. Right? And that's
  3727. the culture we have created.
  3728.  
  3729. 796
  3730. 00:43:20,291 --> 00:43:21,792
  3731. So, I just want
  3732. all of you to remember
  3733.  
  3734. 797
  3735. 00:43:21,875 --> 00:43:23,795
  3736. that when we come to work
  3737. every day that we carry
  3738.  
  3739. 798
  3740. 00:43:23,834 --> 00:43:27,500
  3741. that sense of mission in your
  3742. hearts every single day...
  3743.  
  3744. 799
  3745. 00:43:27,583 --> 00:43:29,208
  3746. Sunny was very successful
  3747.  
  3748. 800
  3749. 00:43:29,291 --> 00:43:31,709
  3750. in the late '90s
  3751. with a tech company
  3752.  
  3753. 801
  3754. 00:43:31,792 --> 00:43:33,375
  3755. that sold for a lot of money.
  3756.  
  3757. 802
  3758. 00:43:33,458 --> 00:43:35,643
  3759. He seemed kind of like a Mark Cuban
  3760. character, potentially, to me,
  3761.  
  3762. 803
  3763. 00:43:35,667 --> 00:43:38,017
  3764. in some ways, where he was at
  3765. the right place, the right time.
  3766.  
  3767. 804
  3768. 00:43:38,041 --> 00:43:40,917
  3769. Made a lot of money.
  3770.  
  3771. 805
  3772. 00:43:41,000 --> 00:43:43,709
  3773. His expertise was
  3774. software and IT.
  3775.  
  3776. 806
  3777. 00:43:43,792 --> 00:43:45,552
  3778. What we are doing is
  3779. really, really difficult
  3780.  
  3781. 807
  3782. 00:43:45,625 --> 00:43:48,750
  3783. because we're going
  3784. against an entire system
  3785.  
  3786. 808
  3787. 00:43:48,834 --> 00:43:51,542
  3788. that doesn't believe
  3789. that prevention is possible.
  3790.  
  3791. 809
  3792. 00:43:51,625 --> 00:43:54,917
  3793. I always felt like Sunny
  3794. was making a deal, you know?
  3795.  
  3796. 810
  3797. 00:43:55,000 --> 00:43:58,417
  3798. Like, he knew the technology,
  3799. but just enough to sell it.
  3800.  
  3801. 811
  3802. 00:43:58,500 --> 00:44:02,041
  3803. To him, this was another home
  3804. run that he was going to hit.
  3805.  
  3806. 812
  3807. 00:44:03,417 --> 00:44:05,709
  3808. He was 49 and she was 30,
  3809.  
  3810. 813
  3811. 00:44:05,792 --> 00:44:08,917
  3812. but she was the dominant
  3813. figure in that relationship.
  3814.  
  3815. 814
  3816. 00:44:09,000 --> 00:44:10,875
  3817. And when he talked about her,
  3818.  
  3819. 815
  3820. 00:44:10,959 --> 00:44:12,959
  3821. he talked about her
  3822. in a very deferential way,
  3823.  
  3824. 816
  3825. 00:44:13,041 --> 00:44:14,142
  3826. that she was kind of a genius.
  3827.  
  3828. 817
  3829. 00:44:14,166 --> 00:44:16,583
  3830. When he spoke about Elizabeth,
  3831.  
  3832. 818
  3833. 00:44:16,667 --> 00:44:20,583
  3834. he was really...
  3835. reverential.
  3836.  
  3837. 819
  3838. 00:44:20,667 --> 00:44:25,208
  3839. "Elizabeth is the most important
  3840. inventor of our times."
  3841.  
  3842. 820
  3843. 00:44:29,458 --> 00:44:33,375
  3844. You know, I think Sunny saw her as
  3845. this iconic figure that he could never be,
  3846.  
  3847. 821
  3848. 00:44:33,458 --> 00:44:39,333
  3849. and so he, I think, found this vehicle
  3850. for him to advance himself in her,
  3851.  
  3852. 822
  3853. 00:44:39,417 --> 00:44:41,542
  3854. and, you know, she was
  3855. on board for it, too.
  3856.  
  3857. 823
  3858. 00:44:44,208 --> 00:44:47,917
  3859. She lived with him
  3860. at some condo in Palo Alto.
  3861.  
  3862. 824
  3863. 00:44:48,000 --> 00:44:50,291
  3864. I thought that
  3865. there was definitely
  3866.  
  3867. 825
  3868. 00:44:50,375 --> 00:44:52,542
  3869. something going on
  3870. behind the scenes there.
  3871.  
  3872. 826
  3873. 00:44:52,625 --> 00:44:54,125
  3874. They certainly
  3875. would leave together,
  3876.  
  3877. 827
  3878. 00:44:54,208 --> 00:44:56,166
  3879. they'd come in
  3880. at similar times.
  3881.  
  3882. 828
  3883. 00:44:56,250 --> 00:44:58,083
  3884. They're always
  3885. talking to each other,
  3886.  
  3887. 829
  3888. 00:44:58,166 --> 00:45:00,375
  3889. offline, online,
  3890. in meetings,
  3891.  
  3892. 830
  3893. 00:45:00,458 --> 00:45:02,875
  3894. outside of meetings.
  3895. They were very close.
  3896.  
  3897. 831
  3898. 00:45:04,208 --> 00:45:06,750
  3899. It wasn't uncommon
  3900. for Elizabeth and Sunny
  3901.  
  3902. 832
  3903. 00:45:06,834 --> 00:45:09,125
  3904. to go to the Silicon Valley
  3905. airport
  3906.  
  3907. 833
  3908. 00:45:09,208 --> 00:45:10,333
  3909. and go off to some meeting.
  3910.  
  3911. 834
  3912. 00:45:10,417 --> 00:45:12,542
  3913. They were going to go
  3914. sell this thing,
  3915.  
  3916. 835
  3917. 00:45:12,625 --> 00:45:15,208
  3918. go make a deal.
  3919.  
  3920. 836
  3921. 00:45:21,417 --> 00:45:25,458
  3922. Without disclosing their
  3923. romantic relationship to investors,
  3924.  
  3925. 837
  3926. 00:45:25,542 --> 00:45:29,000
  3927. Elizabeth and Sunny flew off
  3928. together to corporate presentations,
  3929.  
  3930. 838
  3931. 00:45:29,083 --> 00:45:33,458
  3932. touting the potential
  3933. of the Edison prototypes.
  3934.  
  3935. 839
  3936. 00:45:33,542 --> 00:45:36,917
  3937. One company, Walgreens,
  3938. loved the pitch.
  3939.  
  3940. 840
  3941. 00:45:38,041 --> 00:45:39,792
  3942. In this 2010 PowerPoint,
  3943.  
  3944. 841
  3945. 00:45:39,875 --> 00:45:43,041
  3946. Theranos showcased
  3947. an early version of Edison,
  3948.  
  3949. 842
  3950. 00:45:43,125 --> 00:45:44,667
  3951. a portable
  3952. blood testing machine
  3953.  
  3954. 843
  3955. 00:45:44,750 --> 00:45:48,917
  3956. that could be deployed in
  3957. pharmacies all over the world.
  3958.  
  3959. 844
  3960. 00:45:49,000 --> 00:45:50,625
  3961. Theranos boasted
  3962. the device could,
  3963.  
  3964. 845
  3965. 00:45:50,709 --> 00:45:52,792
  3966. "eliminate the need for a lab,"
  3967.  
  3968. 846
  3969. 00:45:52,875 --> 00:45:55,291
  3970. by doing up
  3971. to 200 tests in minutes
  3972.  
  3973. 847
  3974. 00:45:55,375 --> 00:45:58,333
  3975. from a finger-prick drop
  3976. of capillary blood.
  3977.  
  3978. 848
  3979. 00:45:58,417 --> 00:46:02,000
  3980. It wasn't true then,
  3981. but once Walgreens signed a contract,
  3982.  
  3983. 849
  3984. 00:46:02,083 --> 00:46:04,959
  3985. Theranos struggled to make
  3986. it true, constantly changing
  3987.  
  3988. 850
  3989. 00:46:05,041 --> 00:46:08,291
  3990. the machine's color,
  3991. shape, and mechanics.
  3992.  
  3993. 851
  3994. 00:46:08,375 --> 00:46:10,583
  3995. Strangely,
  3996. Walgreens never looked
  3997.  
  3998. 852
  3999. 00:46:10,667 --> 00:46:13,083
  4000. inside any version
  4001. of the magic box
  4002.  
  4003. 853
  4004. 00:46:13,166 --> 00:46:17,291
  4005. to see if it could deliver
  4006. what Theranos promised.
  4007.  
  4008. 854
  4009. 00:46:17,375 --> 00:46:19,375
  4010. There's a great Martin Luther King quote.
  4011.  
  4012. 855
  4013. 00:46:19,458 --> 00:46:21,792
  4014. "Take the first step in faith.
  4015.  
  4016. 856
  4017. 00:46:21,875 --> 00:46:23,583
  4018. "You don't have to see
  4019. the whole staircase,
  4020.  
  4021. 857
  4022. 00:46:23,667 --> 00:46:25,208
  4023. just take the first step."
  4024. Right?
  4025.  
  4026. 858
  4027. 00:46:25,291 --> 00:46:28,291
  4028. And this is...
  4029. this is the first step.
  4030.  
  4031. 859
  4032. 00:46:29,291 --> 00:46:31,750
  4033. So, talk to me a little
  4034. bit about the Edison machine.
  4035.  
  4036. 860
  4037. 00:46:31,834 --> 00:46:34,000
  4038. How would you say it
  4039. was working in terms of
  4040.  
  4041. 861
  4042. 00:46:34,083 --> 00:46:35,792
  4043. the vision versus
  4044. the reality?
  4045.  
  4046. 862
  4047. 00:46:39,000 --> 00:46:40,208
  4048. Uh, poorly.
  4049.  
  4050. 863
  4051. 00:46:41,542 --> 00:46:43,222
  4052. We couldn't regulate
  4053. temperature very well.
  4054.  
  4055. 864
  4056. 00:46:43,250 --> 00:46:46,083
  4057. We couldn't reproducibly
  4058. transfer fluids.
  4059.  
  4060. 865
  4061. 00:46:46,166 --> 00:46:48,458
  4062. We had all sorts
  4063. of design changes constantly
  4064.  
  4065. 866
  4066. 00:46:48,542 --> 00:46:49,935
  4067. that we were trying
  4068. to fight against,
  4069.  
  4070. 867
  4071. 00:46:49,959 --> 00:46:52,709
  4072. so it was a comedy of errors
  4073. in a lot of ways.
  4074.  
  4075. 868
  4076. 00:46:52,792 --> 00:46:54,875
  4077. The original concept was to make a machine
  4078.  
  4079. 869
  4080. 00:46:54,959 --> 00:46:57,333
  4081. that, at least then,
  4082. the chemists could work on
  4083.  
  4084. 870
  4085. 00:46:57,417 --> 00:46:59,166
  4086. to further develop chemistry.
  4087.  
  4088. 871
  4089. 00:46:59,250 --> 00:47:02,291
  4090. Over time, we were
  4091. able to run a sequence
  4092.  
  4093. 872
  4094. 00:47:02,375 --> 00:47:04,125
  4095. and we were able
  4096. to get results.
  4097.  
  4098. 873
  4099. 00:47:04,208 --> 00:47:07,000
  4100. Getting results
  4101. means, you know,
  4102.  
  4103. 874
  4104. 00:47:07,083 --> 00:47:10,250
  4105. I get a signal proportional
  4106. to what I'm putting in.
  4107.  
  4108. 875
  4109. 00:47:10,333 --> 00:47:12,750
  4110. It doesn't mean it's ready for prime time,
  4111. right?
  4112.  
  4113. 876
  4114. 00:47:16,625 --> 00:47:19,750
  4115. You're handling a
  4116. lot of fluid in the machine.
  4117.  
  4118. 877
  4119. 00:47:19,834 --> 00:47:24,458
  4120. Things got blood spilled
  4121. all over them and got gunky.
  4122.  
  4123. 878
  4124. 00:47:24,542 --> 00:47:26,125
  4125. Some of the donors
  4126. that we had were,
  4127.  
  4128. 879
  4129. 00:47:26,208 --> 00:47:27,917
  4130. you know,
  4131. just people off the street
  4132.  
  4133. 880
  4134. 00:47:28,000 --> 00:47:30,709
  4135. who need money,
  4136. and I imagine that, you know,
  4137.  
  4138. 881
  4139. 00:47:30,792 --> 00:47:32,417
  4140. there probably
  4141. was a fair amount
  4142.  
  4143. 882
  4144. 00:47:32,500 --> 00:47:34,125
  4145. of hepatitis
  4146. and things like that.
  4147.  
  4148. 883
  4149. 00:47:34,208 --> 00:47:37,458
  4150. And the device would freeze up
  4151. in the middle of running a test,
  4152.  
  4153. 884
  4154. 00:47:37,542 --> 00:47:41,375
  4155. and then I would have to reach
  4156. in there with my hands.
  4157.  
  4158. 885
  4159. 00:47:41,458 --> 00:47:43,458
  4160. There were needles
  4161. within the device
  4162.  
  4163. 886
  4164. 00:47:43,542 --> 00:47:45,583
  4165. that could puncture skin,
  4166.  
  4167. 887
  4168. 00:47:45,667 --> 00:47:47,000
  4169. and there's reagents
  4170.  
  4171. 888
  4172. 00:47:47,083 --> 00:47:49,834
  4173. and blood and everything
  4174. spilling all over the place.
  4175.  
  4176. 889
  4177. 00:47:49,917 --> 00:47:52,458
  4178. Blood that's just sitting there
  4179. in the bottom of the vessel,
  4180.  
  4181. 890
  4182. 00:47:52,542 --> 00:47:55,542
  4183. evaporating into
  4184. the air in the room.
  4185.  
  4186. 891
  4187. 00:47:55,625 --> 00:47:57,792
  4188. It was a mess inside.
  4189.  
  4190. 892
  4191. 00:47:57,875 --> 00:48:00,208
  4192. Pieces of the device would literally fall off
  4193.  
  4194. 893
  4195. 00:48:00,291 --> 00:48:01,750
  4196. in the middle of testing.
  4197.  
  4198. 894
  4199. 00:48:01,834 --> 00:48:03,667
  4200. Centrifuges exploding
  4201. inside of it
  4202.  
  4203. 895
  4204. 00:48:03,750 --> 00:48:06,083
  4205. and things like that.
  4206.  
  4207. 896
  4208. 00:48:06,166 --> 00:48:07,810
  4209. Obviously,
  4210. they didn't want anybody
  4211.  
  4212. 897
  4213. 00:48:07,834 --> 00:48:10,542
  4214. to actually see what
  4215. was going on in there.
  4216.  
  4217. 898
  4218. 00:48:12,291 --> 00:48:14,834
  4219. So, when we had demos,
  4220. they would bring investors
  4221.  
  4222. 899
  4223. 00:48:14,917 --> 00:48:18,625
  4224. or executives from some company
  4225. to a room which would have
  4226.  
  4227. 900
  4228. 00:48:18,709 --> 00:48:21,000
  4229. different styles of Edison
  4230. they were prototyping.
  4231.  
  4232. 901
  4233. 00:48:25,875 --> 00:48:28,041
  4234. They would do a fingerstick
  4235. on the executives,
  4236.  
  4237. 902
  4238. 00:48:28,125 --> 00:48:30,417
  4239. so they'd take
  4240. a fingerstick of blood.
  4241.  
  4242. 903
  4243. 00:48:32,500 --> 00:48:35,125
  4244. They would put the blood
  4245. into the cartridge,
  4246.  
  4247. 904
  4248. 00:48:35,208 --> 00:48:37,834
  4249. and then they would put
  4250. the cartridge into this Edison.
  4251.  
  4252. 905
  4253. 00:48:42,500 --> 00:48:44,893
  4254. They'd walk the executives out of
  4255. the room to go give them a tour,
  4256.  
  4257. 906
  4258. 00:48:44,917 --> 00:48:46,893
  4259. or to go have a meeting,
  4260. or go have lunch or whatever,
  4261.  
  4262. 907
  4263. 00:48:46,917 --> 00:48:49,500
  4264. and immediately afterwards,
  4265. an engineer would run in,
  4266.  
  4267. 908
  4268. 00:48:49,583 --> 00:48:51,423
  4269. grab the cartridge
  4270. and bring it out to the lab,
  4271.  
  4272. 909
  4273. 00:48:51,458 --> 00:48:55,750
  4274. where my team would do
  4275. the assays at the bench.
  4276.  
  4277. 910
  4278. 00:48:55,834 --> 00:48:59,291
  4279. We were on call,
  4280. so this could be done in an hour.
  4281.  
  4282. 911
  4283. 00:48:59,375 --> 00:49:01,875
  4284. We got reasonable data
  4285. every time,
  4286.  
  4287. 912
  4288. 00:49:01,959 --> 00:49:03,625
  4289. and then we would
  4290. get those results,
  4291.  
  4292. 913
  4293. 00:49:03,709 --> 00:49:06,291
  4294. the engineer would run
  4295. into the room with the results,
  4296.  
  4297. 914
  4298. 00:49:06,375 --> 00:49:08,184
  4299. and these guys would come
  4300. back in and they'd say,
  4301.  
  4302. 915
  4303. 00:49:08,208 --> 00:49:10,583
  4304. "Well, here's your results
  4305. from running our tests."
  4306.  
  4307. 916
  4308. 00:49:13,959 --> 00:49:16,875
  4309. We had listed on the webpage,
  4310. like, 200 different assays,
  4311.  
  4312. 917
  4313. 00:49:16,959 --> 00:49:21,458
  4314. but we had no more than half of those
  4315. actually validated to be working,
  4316.  
  4317. 918
  4318. 00:49:21,542 --> 00:49:25,250
  4319. even in the lab at that point,
  4320. let alone on the Edisons.
  4321.  
  4322. 919
  4323. 00:49:25,333 --> 00:49:28,083
  4324. Because it's trying to do multiple analyses,
  4325.  
  4326. 920
  4327. 00:49:28,166 --> 00:49:31,250
  4328. you need so much hardware
  4329. inside the machine,
  4330.  
  4331. 921
  4332. 00:49:31,333 --> 00:49:33,750
  4333. it was totally impractical.
  4334.  
  4335. 922
  4336. 00:49:33,834 --> 00:49:35,792
  4337. They were very adamant about
  4338.  
  4339. 923
  4340. 00:49:35,875 --> 00:49:39,250
  4341. the machine being this big.
  4342. It's gotta be this big.
  4343.  
  4344. 924
  4345. 00:49:39,333 --> 00:49:41,125
  4346. And I said,
  4347.  
  4348. 925
  4349. 00:49:41,834 --> 00:49:43,291
  4350. "We can't do that.
  4351.  
  4352. 926
  4353. 00:49:43,375 --> 00:49:44,750
  4354. "The laws of physics just
  4355.  
  4356. 927
  4357. 00:49:44,834 --> 00:49:46,917
  4358. "are not going to permit
  4359. us to cram all the stuff
  4360.  
  4361. 928
  4362. 00:49:47,000 --> 00:49:49,583
  4363. "that we've decided needs to go
  4364. in there into this little box.
  4365.  
  4366. 929
  4367. 00:49:49,667 --> 00:49:52,250
  4368. Can the box be bigger?"
  4369.  
  4370. 930
  4371. 00:49:52,333 --> 00:49:55,333
  4372. And a common
  4373. response at Theranos
  4374.  
  4375. 931
  4376. 00:49:55,417 --> 00:49:56,750
  4377. was something
  4378. along the lines
  4379.  
  4380. 932
  4381. 00:49:56,834 --> 00:49:58,208
  4382. of, "Well, maybe
  4383. you're not...
  4384.  
  4385. 933
  4386. 00:49:58,291 --> 00:50:00,458
  4387. "maybe you're not a
  4388. Silicon Valley person.
  4389.  
  4390. 934
  4391. 00:50:00,542 --> 00:50:02,823
  4392. "You should go work for some
  4393. other company if you don't...
  4394.  
  4395. 935
  4396. 00:50:02,875 --> 00:50:04,142
  4397. "if you don't
  4398. believe in the vision
  4399.  
  4400. 936
  4401. 00:50:04,166 --> 00:50:05,834
  4402. of the product."
  4403.  
  4404. 937
  4405. 00:50:05,917 --> 00:50:07,375
  4406. And what would start off
  4407.  
  4408. 938
  4409. 00:50:07,458 --> 00:50:10,542
  4410. as a very serious brainstorming
  4411. meeting would turn into
  4412.  
  4413. 939
  4414. 00:50:10,625 --> 00:50:12,250
  4415. a two-hour conversation about
  4416.  
  4417. 940
  4418. 00:50:12,333 --> 00:50:15,625
  4419. the name of the cloud that's
  4420. going to process the information.
  4421.  
  4422. 941
  4423. 00:50:15,709 --> 00:50:18,959
  4424. It's like, time out. How big
  4425. does this box need to be
  4426.  
  4427. 942
  4428. 00:50:19,041 --> 00:50:20,792
  4429. to abide by the laws
  4430. of thermodynamics,
  4431.  
  4432. 943
  4433. 00:50:20,875 --> 00:50:22,792
  4434. and actually function,
  4435. and saves people's lives?
  4436.  
  4437. 944
  4438. 00:50:22,875 --> 00:50:26,166
  4439. Maybe that's more important
  4440. than the name of the cloud
  4441.  
  4442. 945
  4443. 00:50:26,250 --> 00:50:28,208
  4444. that processes
  4445. the information,
  4446.  
  4447. 946
  4448. 00:50:28,291 --> 00:50:30,542
  4449. which I think ended up
  4450. being Yoda or something.
  4451.  
  4452. 947
  4453. 00:50:31,083 --> 00:50:33,709
  4454. - Was it Yoda?
  4455. - I think so.
  4456.  
  4457. 948
  4458. 00:50:33,792 --> 00:50:37,500
  4459. What's your favorite
  4460. sound from the movie Star Wars?
  4461.  
  4462. 949
  4463. 00:50:38,333 --> 00:50:39,792
  4464. Yoda.
  4465.  
  4466. 950
  4467. 00:50:39,875 --> 00:50:41,792
  4468. What does Yoda sound like?
  4469.  
  4470. 951
  4471. 00:50:41,875 --> 00:50:45,000
  4472. Yoda sounds like,
  4473. "Do or do not. There is no try."
  4474.  
  4475. 952
  4476. 00:50:47,500 --> 00:50:51,333
  4477. You can't just bend your
  4478. way around the laws of physics.
  4479.  
  4480. 953
  4481. 00:50:51,417 --> 00:50:53,583
  4482. You can't just have a
  4483. great marketing campaign,
  4484.  
  4485. 954
  4486. 00:50:53,667 --> 00:50:55,500
  4487. and then get around
  4488. these things.
  4489.  
  4490. 955
  4491. 00:50:57,583 --> 00:51:00,333
  4492. Sunny and Elizabeth,
  4493. they didn't care
  4494.  
  4495. 956
  4496. 00:51:00,417 --> 00:51:02,917
  4497. that we figure out what's
  4498. not working, or make sure
  4499.  
  4500. 957
  4501. 00:51:03,000 --> 00:51:06,125
  4502. that we can actually solve
  4503. these problems in a real way.
  4504.  
  4505. 958
  4506. 00:51:06,208 --> 00:51:09,041
  4507. They always seemed to
  4508. think that everything could happen
  4509.  
  4510. 959
  4511. 00:51:09,125 --> 00:51:10,917
  4512. very fast,
  4513. and if you said no,
  4514.  
  4515. 960
  4516. 00:51:11,000 --> 00:51:13,000
  4517. then they just went around
  4518. to find the next person
  4519.  
  4520. 961
  4521. 00:51:13,083 --> 00:51:14,125
  4522. who would say yes.
  4523.  
  4524. 962
  4525. 00:51:14,792 --> 00:51:17,667
  4526. And generally, they tended
  4527. to start become younger
  4528.  
  4529. 963
  4530. 00:51:17,750 --> 00:51:19,667
  4531. and less experienced, right?
  4532.  
  4533. 964
  4534. 00:51:19,750 --> 00:51:21,583
  4535. "We're going to disrupt.
  4536. We don't want people
  4537.  
  4538. 965
  4539. 00:51:21,667 --> 00:51:23,959
  4540. "who are stuck in
  4541. the old ways of actually,
  4542.  
  4543. 966
  4544. 00:51:24,041 --> 00:51:26,375
  4545. "you know, validating
  4546. experiments, and, you know,
  4547.  
  4548. 967
  4549. 00:51:26,458 --> 00:51:29,667
  4550. doing things properly
  4551. with documentation."
  4552.  
  4553. 968
  4554. 00:51:31,959 --> 00:51:34,625
  4555. One of those people
  4556. who wanted things done properly
  4557.  
  4558. 969
  4559. 00:51:34,709 --> 00:51:36,125
  4560. was Ian Gibbons.
  4561.  
  4562. 970
  4563. 00:51:36,208 --> 00:51:39,208
  4564. The first experienced
  4565. scientist hired by Theranos,
  4566.  
  4567. 971
  4568. 00:51:39,291 --> 00:51:41,250
  4569. he was an expert
  4570. in blood testing
  4571.  
  4572. 972
  4573. 00:51:41,333 --> 00:51:44,417
  4574. and had done much of the work
  4575. on the company's key patents,
  4576.  
  4577. 973
  4578. 00:51:44,500 --> 00:51:47,291
  4579. to which Elizabeth
  4580. had attached her name.
  4581.  
  4582. 974
  4583. 00:51:48,125 --> 00:51:50,500
  4584. Ian was a Cambridge PhD.
  4585.  
  4586. 975
  4587. 00:51:50,583 --> 00:51:53,500
  4588. He knew things the rest
  4589. of us didn't know.
  4590.  
  4591. 976
  4592. 00:51:53,583 --> 00:51:56,959
  4593. He would work with some of the
  4594. younger chemists and scientists,
  4595.  
  4596. 977
  4597. 00:51:57,041 --> 00:51:58,434
  4598. and help them
  4599. with their experiments,
  4600.  
  4601. 978
  4602. 00:51:58,458 --> 00:51:59,959
  4603. help them to design
  4604. their experiments,
  4605.  
  4606. 979
  4607. 00:52:00,041 --> 00:52:02,417
  4608. help them to analyze their data,
  4609. interpret their data, etc.
  4610.  
  4611. 980
  4612. 00:52:02,500 --> 00:52:05,709
  4613. He was just a wealth
  4614. of knowledge, and it was,
  4615.  
  4616. 981
  4617. 00:52:05,792 --> 00:52:08,792
  4618. you know, at the time, it kind of evolved,
  4619. I knew him for two years,
  4620.  
  4621. 982
  4622. 00:52:08,875 --> 00:52:12,041
  4623. and my opinion of him evolved
  4624. only just to be better
  4625.  
  4626. 983
  4627. 00:52:12,125 --> 00:52:14,476
  4628. because he was just trying to
  4629. make the best of his situation.
  4630.  
  4631. 984
  4632. 00:52:14,500 --> 00:52:18,458
  4633. Like, what I got to see there,
  4634. I got to see how marginalized he was.
  4635.  
  4636. 985
  4637. 00:52:19,291 --> 00:52:20,834
  4638. So, in about 2012,
  4639.  
  4640. 986
  4641. 00:52:20,917 --> 00:52:22,583
  4642. Ian didn't have
  4643. an office anymore.
  4644.  
  4645. 987
  4646. 00:52:22,667 --> 00:52:24,834
  4647. I think he felt
  4648. slighted by that.
  4649.  
  4650. 988
  4651. 00:52:24,917 --> 00:52:28,709
  4652. He wasn't involved
  4653. with decision-making.
  4654.  
  4655. 989
  4656. 00:52:28,792 --> 00:52:32,166
  4657. He would look at data and he
  4658. said things were not working.
  4659.  
  4660. 990
  4661. 00:52:32,500 --> 00:52:35,375
  4662. Ian really got into
  4663. bad shape with Sunny...
  4664.  
  4665. 991
  4666. 00:52:35,458 --> 00:52:37,250
  4667. both Sunny and Elizabeth,
  4668.  
  4669. 992
  4670. 00:52:37,333 --> 00:52:41,333
  4671. because there's so many things
  4672. wrong with that technology.
  4673.  
  4674. 993
  4675. 00:52:42,625 --> 00:52:46,417
  4676. And isn't that the point of
  4677. someone like that being there,
  4678.  
  4679. 994
  4680. 00:52:46,500 --> 00:52:49,792
  4681. to tell them why
  4682. it wasn't going to work?
  4683.  
  4684. 995
  4685. 00:52:49,875 --> 00:52:53,166
  4686. In early 2013,
  4687. Theranos tried to prevent Ian
  4688.  
  4689. 996
  4690. 00:52:53,250 --> 00:52:55,875
  4691. from having to testify
  4692. in a patent lawsuit.
  4693.  
  4694. 997
  4695. 00:52:55,959 --> 00:52:58,125
  4696. If he were to give evidence
  4697. that Elizabeth wasn't
  4698.  
  4699. 998
  4700. 00:52:58,208 --> 00:52:59,709
  4701. the inventor she claimed to be,
  4702.  
  4703. 999
  4704. 00:52:59,792 --> 00:53:02,959
  4705. some of the company's
  4706. patents might be invalidated.
  4707.  
  4708. 1000
  4709. 00:53:03,041 --> 00:53:05,041
  4710. As the date of his
  4711. deposition approached,
  4712.  
  4713. 1001
  4714. 00:53:05,125 --> 00:53:08,166
  4715. he drank heavily and fell
  4716. into a deep depression,
  4717.  
  4718. 1002
  4719. 00:53:08,250 --> 00:53:11,375
  4720. afraid that honesty
  4721. might cost him his job.
  4722.  
  4723. 1003
  4724. 00:53:12,166 --> 00:53:14,291
  4725. Some time in 2013,
  4726.  
  4727. 1004
  4728. 00:53:14,375 --> 00:53:17,000
  4729. he wasn't in work anymore.
  4730.  
  4731. 1005
  4732. 00:53:17,083 --> 00:53:18,542
  4733. Elizabeth told him
  4734. to stay at home
  4735.  
  4736. 1006
  4737. 00:53:18,625 --> 00:53:20,750
  4738. because I guess he was
  4739. saying things aren't working.
  4740.  
  4741. 1007
  4742. 00:53:20,834 --> 00:53:22,208
  4743. That was what
  4744. the story I was told.
  4745.  
  4746. 1008
  4747. 00:53:22,291 --> 00:53:25,959
  4748. Ian asked me if he thought
  4749. that he was going to be fired,
  4750.  
  4751. 1009
  4752. 00:53:26,041 --> 00:53:28,041
  4753. and I told him yes.
  4754.  
  4755. 1010
  4756. 00:53:28,125 --> 00:53:29,834
  4757. Unfortunately.
  4758.  
  4759. 1011
  4760. 00:53:29,917 --> 00:53:32,959
  4761. And that was the night
  4762. he killed himself.
  4763.  
  4764. 1012
  4765. 00:53:33,041 --> 00:53:37,166
  4766. He was so distraught
  4767. over this stupid, um...
  4768.  
  4769. 1013
  4770. 00:53:37,250 --> 00:53:39,625
  4771. inter... uh, this...
  4772.  
  4773. 1014
  4774. 00:53:39,709 --> 00:53:42,542
  4775. patent case,
  4776. misappropriation case,
  4777.  
  4778. 1015
  4779. 00:53:43,083 --> 00:53:48,333
  4780. and... not knowing what he was going
  4781. to do with the rest of his life,
  4782.  
  4783. 1016
  4784. 00:53:48,417 --> 00:53:50,959
  4785. and that's why
  4786. he committed suicide.
  4787.  
  4788. 1017
  4789. 00:53:51,667 --> 00:53:53,583
  4790. What was the reaction of the company
  4791.  
  4792. 1018
  4793. 00:53:53,667 --> 00:53:56,166
  4794. after Ian
  4795. committed suicide?
  4796.  
  4797. 1019
  4798. 00:53:56,250 --> 00:54:00,000
  4799. Um, I don't know because
  4800. they never communicated with me,
  4801.  
  4802. 1020
  4803. 00:54:00,083 --> 00:54:04,667
  4804. except to ask me to send back
  4805. his confidential stuff.
  4806.  
  4807. 1021
  4808. 00:54:06,917 --> 00:54:11,291
  4809. I brought back his documents
  4810. that he had at home,
  4811.  
  4812. 1022
  4813. 00:54:13,041 --> 00:54:15,291
  4814. and left them
  4815. at the front desk.
  4816.  
  4817. 1023
  4818. 00:54:16,625 --> 00:54:19,417
  4819. Did you ever hear
  4820. from Elizabeth Holmes again?
  4821.  
  4822. 1024
  4823. 00:54:19,500 --> 00:54:21,125
  4824. No.
  4825.  
  4826. 1025
  4827. 00:54:23,125 --> 00:54:26,208
  4828. If today were my last day on this Earth,
  4829.  
  4830. 1026
  4831. 00:54:26,291 --> 00:54:29,834
  4832. and I could say that
  4833.  
  4834. 1027
  4835. 00:54:29,917 --> 00:54:31,542
  4836. the people who've
  4837. gone through hell
  4838.  
  4839. 1028
  4840. 00:54:31,625 --> 00:54:33,750
  4841. in being able to just
  4842. get the test done
  4843.  
  4844. 1029
  4845. 00:54:33,834 --> 00:54:36,959
  4846. that they need to get care
  4847. now don't...
  4848.  
  4849. 1030
  4850. 00:54:37,625 --> 00:54:40,417
  4851. I've done something
  4852. in this world that
  4853.  
  4854. 1031
  4855. 00:54:40,500 --> 00:54:42,460
  4856. has made it a little bit
  4857. of a better place, right?
  4858.  
  4859. 1032
  4860. 00:54:42,542 --> 00:54:45,000
  4861. But you've got to be protective
  4862. about patent and all of that.
  4863.  
  4864. 1033
  4865. 00:54:45,083 --> 00:54:47,500
  4866. - We do...
  4867. - But do you have something to worry about,
  4868.  
  4869. 1034
  4870. 00:54:47,583 --> 00:54:49,375
  4871. obviously,
  4872. competitive businesses
  4873.  
  4874. 1035
  4875. 00:54:49,458 --> 00:54:51,709
  4876. always concerned
  4877. about, you know,
  4878.  
  4879. 1036
  4880. 00:54:51,792 --> 00:54:55,542
  4881. - the ideas incorporated into products.
  4882. - Sure.
  4883.  
  4884. 1037
  4885. 00:54:55,625 --> 00:54:57,750
  4886. You have to be on version 10
  4887.  
  4888. 1038
  4889. 00:54:57,834 --> 00:54:59,542
  4890. by the time anybody
  4891. else is on version one.
  4892.  
  4893. 1039
  4894. 00:54:59,625 --> 00:55:01,208
  4895. - Yes.
  4896. - And that's...
  4897.  
  4898. 1040
  4899. 00:55:01,291 --> 00:55:03,208
  4900. that's what our whole
  4901. business is about, so...
  4902.  
  4903. 1041
  4904. 00:55:03,291 --> 00:55:04,583
  4905. So, you're
  4906. paranoid?
  4907.  
  4908. 1042
  4909. 00:55:04,667 --> 00:55:06,750
  4910. - And you have to be.
  4911. - We try to be. Yeah.
  4912.  
  4913. 1043
  4914. 00:55:06,834 --> 00:55:09,291
  4915. We want to be the most
  4916. paranoid people on the planet.
  4917.  
  4918. 1044
  4919. 00:55:09,333 --> 00:55:10,583
  4920. Absolutely. Yeah.
  4921.  
  4922. 1045
  4923. 00:55:14,834 --> 00:55:16,208
  4924. For last two years,
  4925.  
  4926. 1046
  4927. 00:55:16,291 --> 00:55:18,875
  4928. year and a half,
  4929. we come under attack,
  4930.  
  4931. 1047
  4932. 00:55:18,959 --> 00:55:20,709
  4933. you know, from outside, and...
  4934.  
  4935. 1048
  4936. 00:55:20,792 --> 00:55:22,834
  4937. it's usually Quest Diagnostics.
  4938.  
  4939. 1049
  4940. 00:55:22,917 --> 00:55:25,959
  4941. Their entire product strategy
  4942. is lies, built around
  4943.  
  4944. 1050
  4945. 00:55:26,041 --> 00:55:29,667
  4946. getting people sick and then
  4947. living off of their diseases.
  4948.  
  4949. 1051
  4950. 00:55:29,750 --> 00:55:31,792
  4951. And we are trying
  4952. to change that, right?
  4953.  
  4954. 1052
  4955. 00:55:31,875 --> 00:55:33,834
  4956. So, it's really important
  4957. that you all understand
  4958.  
  4959. 1053
  4960. 00:55:33,917 --> 00:55:37,834
  4961. that what we are doing
  4962. here is so disruptive
  4963.  
  4964. 1054
  4965. 00:55:37,917 --> 00:55:40,166
  4966. that we will
  4967. always be attacked.
  4968.  
  4969. 1055
  4970. 00:55:40,208 --> 00:55:42,625
  4971. The paranoia seemed
  4972. to come from the belief that
  4973.  
  4974. 1056
  4975. 00:55:42,709 --> 00:55:45,142
  4976. someone's going to beat us to it,
  4977. or someone's going to steal our ideas,
  4978.  
  4979. 1057
  4980. 00:55:45,166 --> 00:55:46,846
  4981. or we're not going to get
  4982. the whole market.
  4983.  
  4984. 1058
  4985. 00:55:46,875 --> 00:55:49,166
  4986. There's a healthy degree
  4987. of paranoia and secrecy,
  4988.  
  4989. 1059
  4990. 00:55:49,291 --> 00:55:51,291
  4991. but this was well beyond that.
  4992.  
  4993. 1060
  4994. 00:55:52,875 --> 00:55:54,458
  4995. There was security.
  4996.  
  4997. 1061
  4998. 00:55:54,542 --> 00:55:57,291
  4999. You couldn't go walk up
  5000. into her office.
  5001.  
  5002. 1062
  5003. 00:55:57,375 --> 00:55:59,208
  5004. That just doesn't happen.
  5005.  
  5006. 1063
  5007. 00:55:59,291 --> 00:56:02,333
  5008. She had bulletproof glass
  5009. on their exterior windows.
  5010.  
  5011. 1064
  5012. 00:56:02,417 --> 00:56:04,667
  5013. There were bodyguards
  5014. waiting outside,
  5015.  
  5016. 1065
  5017. 00:56:04,750 --> 00:56:06,834
  5018. you know, couple guys
  5019. at the front lobby.
  5020.  
  5021. 1066
  5022. 00:56:06,917 --> 00:56:10,125
  5023. And that increased
  5024. more and more later on.
  5025.  
  5026. 1067
  5027. 00:56:10,208 --> 00:56:13,917
  5028. But, yeah, her and Sunny walk in
  5029. at the same time every morning.
  5030.  
  5031. 1068
  5032. 00:56:14,000 --> 00:56:16,750
  5033. "Eagle One,
  5034. Eagle Two's on their way."
  5035.  
  5036. 1069
  5037. 00:56:16,834 --> 00:56:19,917
  5038. And soon as they start pulling in,
  5039. "Okay, be ready.
  5040.  
  5041. 1070
  5042. 00:56:20,000 --> 00:56:22,208
  5043. Have the doors open."
  5044.  
  5045. 1071
  5046. 00:56:22,291 --> 00:56:24,667
  5047. She was Eagle One,
  5048. Sunny was Eagle Two.
  5049.  
  5050. 1072
  5051. 00:56:33,291 --> 00:56:34,500
  5052. Sunny supposedly
  5053.  
  5054. 1073
  5055. 00:56:34,625 --> 00:56:38,125
  5056. tracked all the key card
  5057. entries and exits,
  5058.  
  5059. 1074
  5060. 00:56:38,208 --> 00:56:40,208
  5061. so you would be
  5062. identified each time
  5063.  
  5064. 1075
  5065. 00:56:40,291 --> 00:56:42,458
  5066. you went into any area.
  5067.  
  5068. 1076
  5069. 00:56:45,083 --> 00:56:46,583
  5070. We would send e-mails,
  5071.  
  5072. 1077
  5073. 00:56:46,667 --> 00:56:49,208
  5074. not CC Sunny or Elizabeth,
  5075.  
  5076. 1078
  5077. 00:56:49,291 --> 00:56:52,125
  5078. and we would get
  5079. a response back from Sunny.
  5080.  
  5081. 1079
  5082. 00:56:52,208 --> 00:56:55,125
  5083. And I remember that was
  5084. a very big turning point for me,
  5085.  
  5086. 1080
  5087. 00:56:55,208 --> 00:56:58,917
  5088. where I was like, "You are being monitored.
  5089. You are being watched."
  5090.  
  5091. 1081
  5092. 00:56:59,000 --> 00:57:01,792
  5093. I found out that I was being keystroked.
  5094.  
  5095. 1082
  5096. 00:57:01,875 --> 00:57:03,792
  5097. That means that
  5098. anything that I typed
  5099.  
  5100. 1083
  5101. 00:57:03,875 --> 00:57:06,500
  5102. was being watched internally.
  5103.  
  5104. 1084
  5105. 00:57:06,583 --> 00:57:07,917
  5106. It seems
  5107. kind of extreme
  5108.  
  5109. 1085
  5110. 00:57:08,000 --> 00:57:09,375
  5111. for a receptionist,
  5112. doesn't it?
  5113.  
  5114. 1086
  5115. 00:57:09,500 --> 00:57:12,917
  5116. - Did that happen to you anywhere else?
  5117. - No.
  5118.  
  5119. 1087
  5120. 00:57:13,000 --> 00:57:16,166
  5121. And, of course, nondisclosure
  5122. agreements had to be signed.
  5123.  
  5124. 1088
  5125. 00:57:16,250 --> 00:57:17,750
  5126. A giant stack of paperwork
  5127.  
  5128. 1089
  5129. 00:57:17,834 --> 00:57:20,542
  5130. saying you can't speak
  5131. poorly about the company,
  5132.  
  5133. 1090
  5134. 00:57:20,625 --> 00:57:23,458
  5135. you're legally liable
  5136. for any detriment caused
  5137.  
  5138. 1091
  5139. 00:57:23,542 --> 00:57:25,742
  5140. to the company. It's like,
  5141. who's writing these contracts
  5142.  
  5143. 1092
  5144. 00:57:25,792 --> 00:57:27,500
  5145. and what are
  5146. they trying to hide?
  5147.  
  5148. 1093
  5149. 00:57:27,583 --> 00:57:29,903
  5150. We weren't supposed to
  5151. tell our families what we did.
  5152.  
  5153. 1094
  5154. 00:57:29,959 --> 00:57:31,709
  5155. We weren't supposed
  5156. to talk about anything
  5157.  
  5158. 1095
  5159. 00:57:31,792 --> 00:57:33,333
  5160. that went on
  5161. inside of Theranos.
  5162.  
  5163. 1096
  5164. 00:57:34,250 --> 00:57:35,417
  5165. Then, after a while,
  5166.  
  5167. 1097
  5168. 00:57:35,500 --> 00:57:37,500
  5169. people became paranoid
  5170. of one another.
  5171.  
  5172. 1098
  5173. 00:57:38,583 --> 00:57:40,667
  5174. We became much more siloed.
  5175.  
  5176. 1099
  5177. 00:57:40,750 --> 00:57:43,875
  5178. Walking down the hallway,
  5179. you'd say hi and the person would look
  5180.  
  5181. 1100
  5182. 00:57:43,959 --> 00:57:46,625
  5183. at the ceiling or the floor or
  5184. anything to avoid eye contact
  5185.  
  5186. 1101
  5187. 00:57:46,709 --> 00:57:48,291
  5188. and not acknowledge
  5189. you back.
  5190.  
  5191. 1102
  5192. 00:57:48,375 --> 00:57:50,559
  5193. Then the next person and the next person,
  5194. and then you'd notice,
  5195.  
  5196. 1103
  5197. 00:57:50,583 --> 00:57:54,333
  5198. there'd be whole groups that just wouldn't...
  5199. you were invisible to them.
  5200.  
  5201. 1104
  5202. 00:57:54,417 --> 00:57:57,208
  5203. It was very hard to communicate
  5204. information sometimes
  5205.  
  5206. 1105
  5207. 00:57:57,291 --> 00:57:59,417
  5208. because there were so
  5209. many blockades and silos
  5210.  
  5211. 1106
  5212. 00:57:59,500 --> 00:58:01,208
  5213. and this emphasis
  5214. on secrecy.
  5215.  
  5216. 1107
  5217. 00:58:01,291 --> 00:58:03,583
  5218. If the people from
  5219. the chemistry team could talk
  5220.  
  5221. 1108
  5222. 00:58:03,667 --> 00:58:06,875
  5223. about what was coming next
  5224. from the engineering team,
  5225.  
  5226. 1109
  5227. 00:58:06,959 --> 00:58:09,519
  5228. they would've said, "Well,
  5229. that's not going to solve the problem,"
  5230.  
  5231. 1110
  5232. 00:58:09,583 --> 00:58:13,000
  5233. but since everyone was
  5234. working on it separately,
  5235.  
  5236. 1111
  5237. 00:58:13,083 --> 00:58:14,917
  5238. they could all keep
  5239. working forever
  5240.  
  5241. 1112
  5242. 00:58:15,000 --> 00:58:17,125
  5243. without actually
  5244. solving anything.
  5245.  
  5246. 1113
  5247. 00:58:18,875 --> 00:58:21,625
  5248. The mantra in Silicon Valley
  5249. is, "Move fast, break things,"
  5250.  
  5251. 1114
  5252. 00:58:21,709 --> 00:58:23,375
  5253. and that is really dangerous
  5254.  
  5255. 1115
  5256. 00:58:23,458 --> 00:58:26,041
  5257. when people's lives
  5258. are in the balance.
  5259.  
  5260. 1116
  5261. 00:58:26,125 --> 00:58:29,125
  5262. Silicon Valley is really good at making
  5263.  
  5264. 1117
  5265. 00:58:29,208 --> 00:58:31,166
  5266. a web-based e-mail client,
  5267.  
  5268. 1118
  5269. 00:58:31,250 --> 00:58:35,083
  5270. or really great at making
  5271. a chat app with emojis on it.
  5272.  
  5273. 1119
  5274. 00:58:35,166 --> 00:58:37,184
  5275. A little mile when you kind of think about
  5276.  
  5277. 1120
  5278. 00:58:37,208 --> 00:58:39,750
  5279. what is all in that
  5280. thing you're holding.
  5281.  
  5282. 1121
  5283. 00:58:39,834 --> 00:58:42,250
  5284. But Silicon Valley is trying to do things
  5285.  
  5286. 1122
  5287. 00:58:42,333 --> 00:58:44,667
  5288. where people's lives
  5289. are on the line.
  5290.  
  5291. 1123
  5292. 00:58:44,750 --> 00:58:46,350
  5293. We're trying to make
  5294. autonomous vehicles.
  5295.  
  5296. 1124
  5297. 00:58:46,417 --> 00:58:48,333
  5298. We're trying to make
  5299. medical devices.
  5300.  
  5301. 1125
  5302. 00:58:48,417 --> 00:58:51,125
  5303. We're trying to do these things
  5304. that if you don't do it right,
  5305.  
  5306. 1126
  5307. 00:58:51,208 --> 00:58:53,333
  5308. quite frankly, people can die.
  5309.  
  5310. 1127
  5311. 00:58:53,417 --> 00:58:57,291
  5312. You need to approach it
  5313. with a different lens.
  5314.  
  5315. 1128
  5316. 00:58:57,375 --> 00:58:59,667
  5317. The problem is that when
  5318. you're developing the future,
  5319.  
  5320. 1129
  5321. 00:58:59,750 --> 00:59:01,959
  5322. you don't know what
  5323. the impact is going to be
  5324.  
  5325. 1130
  5326. 00:59:02,041 --> 00:59:04,291
  5327. because no one's
  5328. seen this before.
  5329.  
  5330. 1131
  5331. 00:59:04,375 --> 00:59:07,834
  5332. And the testing ground is
  5333. often just the general public.
  5334.  
  5335. 1132
  5336. 00:59:20,542 --> 00:59:23,542
  5337. In 2013, Theranos went live,
  5338.  
  5339. 1133
  5340. 00:59:23,625 --> 00:59:25,542
  5341. testing real patients
  5342. in Arizona
  5343.  
  5344. 1134
  5345. 00:59:25,625 --> 00:59:27,792
  5346. as part of a partnership
  5347. with Walgreens.
  5348.  
  5349. 1135
  5350. 00:59:28,542 --> 00:59:30,333
  5351. It was a risky move.
  5352.  
  5353. 1136
  5354. 00:59:30,417 --> 00:59:32,041
  5355. The Edison machines
  5356. had problems,
  5357.  
  5358. 1137
  5359. 00:59:32,125 --> 00:59:35,875
  5360. and they weren't approved by
  5361. regulators for in-store testing.
  5362.  
  5363. 1138
  5364. 00:59:35,959 --> 00:59:37,709
  5365. But Theranos was
  5366. running out of money
  5367.  
  5368. 1139
  5369. 00:59:37,792 --> 00:59:41,333
  5370. and needed the Walgreens deal
  5371. to attract new investors.
  5372.  
  5373. 1140
  5374. 00:59:41,417 --> 00:59:43,959
  5375. So, Elizabeth sold
  5376. Walgreens on a stopgap plan
  5377.  
  5378. 1141
  5379. 00:59:44,041 --> 00:59:47,500
  5380. to launch the Wellness
  5381. Centers without the Edisons.
  5382.  
  5383. 1142
  5384. 00:59:51,250 --> 00:59:53,208
  5385. Instead of testing
  5386. blood on-site,
  5387.  
  5388. 1143
  5389. 00:59:53,291 --> 00:59:55,750
  5390. patients' samples would
  5391. be sent to Palo Alto,
  5392.  
  5393. 1144
  5394. 00:59:55,834 --> 00:59:59,417
  5395. where Theranos had hastily
  5396. constructed a clinical lab.
  5397.  
  5398. 1145
  5399. 00:59:59,500 --> 01:00:02,000
  5400. Many of the technicians
  5401. were inexperienced.
  5402.  
  5403. 1146
  5404. 01:00:02,083 --> 01:00:05,250
  5405. When one lab director quit,
  5406. Theranos replaced him
  5407.  
  5408. 1147
  5409. 01:00:05,333 --> 01:00:07,500
  5410. with a dermatologist.
  5411.  
  5412. 1148
  5413. 01:00:08,500 --> 01:00:10,291
  5414. Due in part
  5415. to the Walgreens launch,
  5416.  
  5417. 1149
  5418. 01:00:10,375 --> 01:00:11,750
  5419. Theranos was able to raise
  5420.  
  5421. 1150
  5422. 01:00:11,834 --> 01:00:14,291
  5423. over $400 million
  5424. from new investors,
  5425.  
  5426. 1151
  5427. 01:00:14,375 --> 01:00:17,458
  5428. like the Walton family,
  5429. Betsy DeVos,
  5430.  
  5431. 1152
  5432. 01:00:17,542 --> 01:00:19,333
  5433. the owner of
  5434. the New England Patriots,
  5435.  
  5436. 1153
  5437. 01:00:19,417 --> 01:00:23,208
  5438. and Rupert Murdoch,
  5439. who put up $125 million.
  5440.  
  5441. 1154
  5442. 01:00:24,625 --> 01:00:26,000
  5443. To investors and patients,
  5444.  
  5445. 1155
  5446. 01:00:26,083 --> 01:00:29,417
  5447. it seemed like the system
  5448. was working as advertised.
  5449.  
  5450. 1156
  5451. 01:00:34,583 --> 01:00:37,208
  5452. The plan was launched in Arizona
  5453.  
  5454. 1157
  5455. 01:00:37,291 --> 01:00:39,291
  5456. as if it's
  5457. a nationwide campaign,
  5458.  
  5459. 1158
  5460. 01:00:39,375 --> 01:00:43,041
  5461. and then take key markets and
  5462. roll it out across the country.
  5463.  
  5464. 1159
  5465. 01:00:44,792 --> 01:00:47,542
  5466. I wasn't an engineer.
  5467. I wasn't a scientist.
  5468.  
  5469. 1160
  5470. 01:00:47,625 --> 01:00:49,166
  5471. I wasn't in R&D.
  5472.  
  5473. 1161
  5474. 01:00:49,250 --> 01:00:52,917
  5475. I was there to create
  5476. a consumer brand.
  5477.  
  5478. 1162
  5479. 01:00:53,000 --> 01:00:57,417
  5480. We came up with three adjectives
  5481. to describe Theranos:
  5482.  
  5483. 1163
  5484. 01:00:57,500 --> 01:01:00,709
  5485. simple, human, and optimistic.
  5486.  
  5487. 1164
  5488. 01:01:01,875 --> 01:01:03,917
  5489. Because there are
  5490. so many barriers
  5491.  
  5492. 1165
  5493. 01:01:04,000 --> 01:01:05,917
  5494. to getting your
  5495. blood drawn,
  5496.  
  5497. 1166
  5498. 01:01:06,000 --> 01:01:07,375
  5499. whether it's
  5500. fear of needles,
  5501.  
  5502. 1167
  5503. 01:01:07,458 --> 01:01:09,500
  5504. or fear of finding
  5505. out the results,
  5506.  
  5507. 1168
  5508. 01:01:09,875 --> 01:01:11,375
  5509. living far away,
  5510. can't afford it.
  5511.  
  5512. 1169
  5513. 01:01:11,458 --> 01:01:13,083
  5514. There's just
  5515. a lot of barriers.
  5516.  
  5517. 1170
  5518. 01:01:13,166 --> 01:01:15,291
  5519. It's like, people
  5520. that have this
  5521.  
  5522. 1171
  5523. 01:01:15,375 --> 01:01:19,166
  5524. fear or this angst or don't like it,
  5525. let's convert them.
  5526.  
  5527. 1172
  5528. 01:01:19,250 --> 01:01:22,542
  5529. So, I hired Errol Morris.
  5530.  
  5531. 1173
  5532. 01:01:23,542 --> 01:01:24,542
  5533. Errol worked with Apple.
  5534.  
  5535. 1174
  5536. 01:01:24,625 --> 01:01:26,875
  5537. Did a lot of great
  5538. work with Apple.
  5539.  
  5540. 1175
  5541. 01:01:26,959 --> 01:01:29,291
  5542. And Elizabeth was
  5543. taken by that.
  5544.  
  5545. 1176
  5546. 01:01:29,375 --> 01:01:31,834
  5547. This could be potentially
  5548. the Apple of health care.
  5549.  
  5550. 1177
  5551. 01:01:31,917 --> 01:01:33,000
  5552. Exactly.
  5553.  
  5554. 1178
  5555. 01:01:33,083 --> 01:01:36,500
  5556. - I'm a fan.
  5557. - Well, likewise.
  5558.  
  5559. 1179
  5560. 01:01:40,917 --> 01:01:42,000
  5561. We did casting.
  5562.  
  5563. 1180
  5564. 01:01:42,083 --> 01:01:44,959
  5565. Real people that have
  5566. all these issues.
  5567.  
  5568. 1181
  5569. 01:01:45,041 --> 01:01:47,500
  5570. We did also reach out
  5571. to existing Theranos customers,
  5572.  
  5573. 1182
  5574. 01:01:47,583 --> 01:01:50,583
  5575. and had several of them come
  5576. and tell their real story
  5577.  
  5578. 1183
  5579. 01:01:50,667 --> 01:01:52,291
  5580. and their experience
  5581. with Theranos.
  5582.  
  5583. 1184
  5584. 01:01:52,375 --> 01:01:53,917
  5585. - Hello!
  5586. - Hi.
  5587.  
  5588. 1185
  5589. 01:01:54,000 --> 01:01:55,959
  5590. Thank you for coming in.
  5591.  
  5592. 1186
  5593. 01:01:57,125 --> 01:01:58,959
  5594. A-mark.
  5595.  
  5596. 1187
  5597. 01:01:59,041 --> 01:02:00,917
  5598. So, as usual,
  5599. I have no idea
  5600.  
  5601. 1188
  5602. 01:02:01,000 --> 01:02:03,750
  5603. what questions to ask
  5604. or where to start.
  5605.  
  5606. 1189
  5607. 01:02:05,709 --> 01:02:07,208
  5608. I think we'll figure it out.
  5609.  
  5610. 1190
  5611. 01:02:08,583 --> 01:02:10,709
  5612. There are so many people
  5613. that don't have insurance
  5614.  
  5615. 1191
  5616. 01:02:10,792 --> 01:02:12,375
  5617. and can't afford insurance.
  5618.  
  5619. 1192
  5620. 01:02:12,458 --> 01:02:13,875
  5621. I was going to doctors,
  5622.  
  5623. 1193
  5624. 01:02:13,959 --> 01:02:15,935
  5625. and I couldn't afford it.
  5626. I was paying out of pocket.
  5627.  
  5628. 1194
  5629. 01:02:15,959 --> 01:02:18,333
  5630. If you're trying to live a life,
  5631. it gets in the way of it.
  5632.  
  5633. 1195
  5634. 01:02:18,417 --> 01:02:19,935
  5635. And if I could receive
  5636. this information,
  5637.  
  5638. 1196
  5639. 01:02:19,959 --> 01:02:22,792
  5640. without having to spend all
  5641. of this money along the way,
  5642.  
  5643. 1197
  5644. 01:02:22,875 --> 01:02:24,166
  5645. that would be amazing.
  5646.  
  5647. 1198
  5648. 01:02:24,250 --> 01:02:26,792
  5649. Eight hundred dollars
  5650. for a series of blood tests?
  5651.  
  5652. 1199
  5653. 01:02:26,875 --> 01:02:28,959
  5654. - It can be pretty stressful.
  5655. - It's expensive.
  5656.  
  5657. 1200
  5658. 01:02:29,041 --> 01:02:30,709
  5659. It's ridiculous.
  5660.  
  5661. 1201
  5662. 01:02:36,083 --> 01:02:38,417
  5663. Once they went live in Arizona...
  5664.  
  5665. 1202
  5666. 01:02:38,500 --> 01:02:40,142
  5667. - Right.
  5668. - ...dealing now with real patients...
  5669.  
  5670. 1203
  5671. 01:02:40,166 --> 01:02:42,000
  5672. - Right.
  5673. - ...as opposed to R&D...
  5674.  
  5675. 1204
  5676. 01:02:42,083 --> 01:02:44,458
  5677. - That's right. Yes.
  5678. - ...you know,
  5679.  
  5680. 1205
  5681. 01:02:44,542 --> 01:02:46,583
  5682. then you begin
  5683. to wonder, like,
  5684.  
  5685. 1206
  5686. 01:02:46,667 --> 01:02:49,083
  5687. - is it...
  5688. - Well, I think here's...
  5689.  
  5690. 1207
  5691. 01:02:49,166 --> 01:02:51,083
  5692. my context for this is,
  5693.  
  5694. 1208
  5695. 01:02:51,208 --> 01:02:52,959
  5696. you know, go back
  5697. to Jobs for a minute,
  5698.  
  5699. 1209
  5700. 01:02:53,041 --> 01:02:54,834
  5701. and all the people
  5702. that said no to him,
  5703.  
  5704. 1210
  5705. 01:02:54,917 --> 01:02:56,583
  5706. and he refused no,
  5707.  
  5708. 1211
  5709. 01:02:56,667 --> 01:02:59,417
  5710. and did it anyway
  5711. and proved everyone wrong.
  5712.  
  5713. 1212
  5714. 01:02:59,500 --> 01:03:03,291
  5715. So, my measure
  5716. of success at that level,
  5717.  
  5718. 1213
  5719. 01:03:03,375 --> 01:03:04,834
  5720. a visionary,
  5721.  
  5722. 1214
  5723. 01:03:04,917 --> 01:03:06,291
  5724. owns his own company,
  5725.  
  5726. 1215
  5727. 01:03:06,375 --> 01:03:08,375
  5728. in creating products
  5729. that change the world,
  5730.  
  5731. 1216
  5732. 01:03:08,458 --> 01:03:10,959
  5733. he did not give up
  5734. or give in ever.
  5735.  
  5736. 1217
  5737. 01:03:11,083 --> 01:03:13,208
  5738. So, that was
  5739. my measure of success.
  5740.  
  5741. 1218
  5742. 01:03:13,291 --> 01:03:17,083
  5743. Now, on patients,
  5744. that's a whole other thing.
  5745.  
  5746. 1219
  5747. 01:03:21,166 --> 01:03:23,083
  5748. In many states,
  5749. patients aren't allowed
  5750.  
  5751. 1220
  5752. 01:03:23,125 --> 01:03:25,458
  5753. to order their own lab tests
  5754. without a prescription.
  5755.  
  5756. 1221
  5757. 01:03:25,542 --> 01:03:29,625
  5758. Doctors are supposed to provide
  5759. guidance and oversight.
  5760.  
  5761. 1222
  5762. 01:03:29,667 --> 01:03:31,834
  5763. But Elizabeth lobbied
  5764. the state of Arizona
  5765.  
  5766. 1223
  5767. 01:03:31,959 --> 01:03:35,458
  5768. to pass a law allowing
  5769. patients to order lab tests
  5770.  
  5771. 1224
  5772. 01:03:35,500 --> 01:03:37,667
  5773. without consulting doctors.
  5774.  
  5775. 1225
  5776. 01:03:38,500 --> 01:03:40,458
  5777. Giving people the right
  5778.  
  5779. 1226
  5780. 01:03:40,500 --> 01:03:43,083
  5781. to obtain a laboratory test
  5782.  
  5783. 1227
  5784. 01:03:43,125 --> 01:03:45,375
  5785. will, by definition,
  5786.  
  5787. 1228
  5788. 01:03:45,458 --> 01:03:49,083
  5789. begin the process of
  5790. enabling them to engage
  5791.  
  5792. 1229
  5793. 01:03:49,166 --> 01:03:51,083
  5794. in their health.
  5795.  
  5796. 1230
  5797. 01:03:51,166 --> 01:03:53,625
  5798. Ms. Holmes, you are magnificent,
  5799.  
  5800. 1231
  5801. 01:03:53,667 --> 01:03:55,625
  5802. and there isn't a question
  5803.  
  5804. 1232
  5805. 01:03:55,750 --> 01:03:58,834
  5806. any of us could ever ask
  5807. that you haven't answered
  5808.  
  5809. 1233
  5810. 01:03:58,959 --> 01:04:01,083
  5811. 20 or 30 times before.
  5812.  
  5813. 1234
  5814. 01:04:02,291 --> 01:04:05,875
  5815. This law would allow you
  5816. to order your own blood work,
  5817.  
  5818. 1235
  5819. 01:04:05,959 --> 01:04:07,291
  5820. and you get the results.
  5821.  
  5822. 1236
  5823. 01:04:07,375 --> 01:04:10,500
  5824. This is what
  5825. Theranos puts out.
  5826.  
  5827. 1237
  5828. 01:04:10,583 --> 01:04:11,500
  5829. It's a menu.
  5830.  
  5831. 1238
  5832. 01:04:11,583 --> 01:04:13,750
  5833. You kind of order à la carte,
  5834.  
  5835. 1239
  5836. 01:04:13,834 --> 01:04:16,000
  5837. but there are some
  5838. cautions raised
  5839.  
  5840. 1240
  5841. 01:04:16,083 --> 01:04:17,959
  5842. from the medical community.
  5843.  
  5844. 1241
  5845. 01:04:19,417 --> 01:04:21,184
  5846. You can't just look at a lab.
  5847.  
  5848. 1242
  5849. 01:04:21,208 --> 01:04:24,083
  5850. You have to look at the whole
  5851. patient, the whole person.
  5852.  
  5853. 1243
  5854. 01:04:24,166 --> 01:04:26,583
  5855. We can't write a
  5856. prescription for somebody
  5857.  
  5858. 1244
  5859. 01:04:26,667 --> 01:04:30,125
  5860. that we haven't done a
  5861. physical exam or have seen,
  5862.  
  5863. 1245
  5864. 01:04:30,208 --> 01:04:31,917
  5865. so it kind of
  5866. was like,
  5867.  
  5868. 1246
  5869. 01:04:32,000 --> 01:04:34,542
  5870. how are we going
  5871. to deal with this?
  5872.  
  5873. 1247
  5874. 01:04:34,625 --> 01:04:36,625
  5875. Low cost was very interesting
  5876. to the patients,
  5877.  
  5878. 1248
  5879. 01:04:36,709 --> 01:04:40,250
  5880. but then also being able
  5881. to order their own labs,
  5882.  
  5883. 1249
  5884. 01:04:40,333 --> 01:04:42,083
  5885. and they really liked that.
  5886.  
  5887. 1250
  5888. 01:04:43,291 --> 01:04:46,834
  5889. What made me concerned was,
  5890. as a physician,
  5891.  
  5892. 1251
  5893. 01:04:46,917 --> 01:04:48,717
  5894. you can call the lab
  5895. and ask simple questions,
  5896.  
  5897. 1252
  5898. 01:04:48,792 --> 01:04:52,083
  5899. and these are questions
  5900. that we would ask any lab.
  5901.  
  5902. 1253
  5903. 01:04:52,166 --> 01:04:55,083
  5904. But Theranos,
  5905. they weren't very transparent.
  5906.  
  5907. 1254
  5908. 01:04:55,875 --> 01:04:57,250
  5909. We tried to tell patients that,
  5910.  
  5911. 1255
  5912. 01:04:57,333 --> 01:05:00,500
  5913. "Listen, we're not getting
  5914. a lot of information
  5915.  
  5916. 1256
  5917. 01:05:00,583 --> 01:05:02,166
  5918. "about how they
  5919. do their testing,
  5920.  
  5921. 1257
  5922. 01:05:02,250 --> 01:05:04,959
  5923. and so we're kind
  5924. of unsure of them."
  5925.  
  5926. 1258
  5927. 01:05:05,834 --> 01:05:10,667
  5928. But then, Theranos started giving
  5929. out vouchers or gift cards
  5930.  
  5931. 1259
  5932. 01:05:10,750 --> 01:05:13,792
  5933. to get labs,
  5934. free labs done there.
  5935.  
  5936. 1260
  5937. 01:05:13,875 --> 01:05:17,250
  5938. And so it just kind of...
  5939. exploded.
  5940.  
  5941. 1261
  5942. 01:05:17,333 --> 01:05:19,000
  5943. Mom, you really are
  5944. an important part
  5945.  
  5946. 1262
  5947. 01:05:19,083 --> 01:05:21,083
  5948. of our family because...
  5949.  
  5950. 1263
  5951. 01:05:22,959 --> 01:05:25,542
  5952. we really love
  5953. you so much.
  5954.  
  5955. 1264
  5956. 01:05:25,625 --> 01:05:27,417
  5957. Your health is
  5958. really important to us.
  5959.  
  5960. 1265
  5961. 01:05:27,500 --> 01:05:30,500
  5962. The kids adore you.
  5963.  
  5964. 1266
  5965. 01:05:30,583 --> 01:05:32,375
  5966. Estábien, chiquita.
  5967.  
  5968. 1267
  5969. 01:05:32,458 --> 01:05:33,792
  5970. Theranos gift cards.
  5971.  
  5972. 1268
  5973. 01:05:33,875 --> 01:05:35,250
  5974. Because nothing is
  5975. more important
  5976.  
  5977. 1269
  5978. 01:05:35,333 --> 01:05:36,875
  5979. than the health
  5980. of those you love.
  5981.  
  5982. 1270
  5983. 01:05:38,417 --> 01:05:39,768
  5984. Marker.
  5985.  
  5986. 1271
  5987. 01:06:00,208 --> 01:06:03,375
  5988. Because of my
  5989. extensive background in phlebotomy,
  5990.  
  5991. 1272
  5992. 01:06:03,458 --> 01:06:05,792
  5993. they offered me
  5994. the trainer job.
  5995.  
  5996. 1273
  5997. 01:06:05,875 --> 01:06:08,709
  5998. Basically, I was training
  5999. the Walgreens technicians
  6000.  
  6001. 1274
  6002. 01:06:08,792 --> 01:06:12,375
  6003. and pharmacist to do the
  6004. fingerstick process because...
  6005.  
  6006. 1275
  6007. 01:06:13,583 --> 01:06:15,959
  6008. no one at
  6009. Walgreens had ever
  6010.  
  6011. 1276
  6012. 01:06:16,041 --> 01:06:18,750
  6013. handled blood
  6014. or bodily fluids.
  6015.  
  6016. 1277
  6017. 01:06:18,834 --> 01:06:21,125
  6018. So, talking about
  6019.  
  6020. 1278
  6021. 01:06:21,208 --> 01:06:23,792
  6022. what do you do in case
  6023. of an exposure and...
  6024.  
  6025. 1279
  6026. 01:06:23,875 --> 01:06:26,083
  6027. how do you handle
  6028. adolescents,
  6029.  
  6030. 1280
  6031. 01:06:26,166 --> 01:06:28,917
  6032. um, you know, just everything.
  6033.  
  6034. 1281
  6035. 01:06:29,000 --> 01:06:30,709
  6036. What do you do
  6037. if someone faints?
  6038.  
  6039. 1282
  6040. 01:06:35,792 --> 01:06:37,792
  6041. Our goal is to be within five miles
  6042.  
  6043. 1283
  6044. 01:06:37,875 --> 01:06:41,792
  6045. of every person's home through
  6046. the Walgreens nationally.
  6047.  
  6048. 1284
  6049. 01:06:42,625 --> 01:06:46,625
  6050. Our success will be in being
  6051. able to make it possible
  6052.  
  6053. 1285
  6054. 01:06:46,709 --> 01:06:50,125
  6055. for no one to ever have
  6056. to go through the process
  6057.  
  6058. 1286
  6059. 01:06:50,208 --> 01:06:53,500
  6060. of being stabbed by a big
  6061. needle to get blood anymore,
  6062.  
  6063. 1287
  6064. 01:06:53,583 --> 01:06:56,583
  6065. and be able to begin
  6066. to get access to this lab...
  6067.  
  6068. 1288
  6069. 01:06:56,667 --> 01:06:58,625
  6070. As I was doing my research,
  6071.  
  6072. 1289
  6073. 01:06:58,709 --> 01:07:00,625
  6074. they had about 90 tests,
  6075.  
  6076. 1290
  6077. 01:07:00,709 --> 01:07:03,166
  6078. and by the time
  6079. I was ready to publish,
  6080.  
  6081. 1291
  6082. 01:07:03,250 --> 01:07:05,417
  6083. they had over 200.
  6084.  
  6085. 1292
  6086. 01:07:05,500 --> 01:07:06,792
  6087. I wondered at the time
  6088.  
  6089. 1293
  6090. 01:07:06,875 --> 01:07:09,667
  6091. how exactly was
  6092. she miniaturizing
  6093.  
  6094. 1294
  6095. 01:07:09,750 --> 01:07:11,000
  6096. 200 different tests,
  6097.  
  6098. 1295
  6099. 01:07:11,083 --> 01:07:13,208
  6100. and how exactly
  6101. were you going to get
  6102.  
  6103. 1296
  6104. 01:07:13,291 --> 01:07:16,208
  6105. all of this done
  6106. in the small analyzers?
  6107.  
  6108. 1297
  6109. 01:07:17,667 --> 01:07:20,458
  6110. And she was charging
  6111. so much less than the others,
  6112.  
  6113. 1298
  6114. 01:07:20,542 --> 01:07:24,375
  6115. so all of that
  6116. strained credulity.
  6117.  
  6118. 1299
  6119. 01:07:25,375 --> 01:07:28,500
  6120. I just didn't think that this
  6121.  
  6122. 1300
  6123. 01:07:28,583 --> 01:07:30,667
  6124. very sincere,
  6125.  
  6126. 1301
  6127. 01:07:30,750 --> 01:07:33,959
  6128. earnest, idealistic,
  6129. young woman
  6130.  
  6131. 1302
  6132. 01:07:34,041 --> 01:07:37,083
  6133. was deceiving not just me,
  6134.  
  6135. 1303
  6136. 01:07:37,166 --> 01:07:41,250
  6137. but Walgreens Corporation
  6138. and investors
  6139.  
  6140. 1304
  6141. 01:07:41,333 --> 01:07:44,625
  6142. to the tune of more than
  6143. $400 million at that point.
  6144.  
  6145. 1305
  6146. 01:07:48,583 --> 01:07:50,500
  6147. To be able to give people
  6148.  
  6149. 1306
  6150. 01:07:50,583 --> 01:07:52,500
  6151. the tools to change their life
  6152.  
  6153. 1307
  6154. 01:07:52,583 --> 01:07:55,417
  6155. is an incredible blessing.
  6156. It's a privilege.
  6157.  
  6158. 1308
  6159. 01:07:56,667 --> 01:07:58,166
  6160. Every single day,
  6161.  
  6162. 1309
  6163. 01:07:58,250 --> 01:08:01,583
  6164. I'm just so grateful for the
  6165. way in which this is unfolding.
  6166.  
  6167. 1310
  6168. 01:08:02,542 --> 01:08:04,208
  6169. It's a gift from God.
  6170.  
  6171. 1311
  6172. 01:08:16,750 --> 01:08:18,834
  6173. We have to understand that this is all about
  6174.  
  6175. 1312
  6176. 01:08:18,917 --> 01:08:22,125
  6177. wanting the world
  6178. to be a certain way,
  6179.  
  6180. 1313
  6181. 01:08:22,208 --> 01:08:24,792
  6182. and basically being able
  6183. to rationalize our actions
  6184.  
  6185. 1314
  6186. 01:08:24,875 --> 01:08:27,291
  6187. to try and make it true.
  6188.  
  6189. 1315
  6190. 01:08:27,375 --> 01:08:29,542
  6191. You have to want
  6192. a certain thing,
  6193.  
  6194. 1316
  6195. 01:08:29,625 --> 01:08:32,041
  6196. and then you should be able
  6197. to kind of bend reality,
  6198.  
  6199. 1317
  6200. 01:08:32,125 --> 01:08:35,291
  6201. or rationalize things to
  6202. allow you to do that.
  6203.  
  6204. 1318
  6205. 01:08:35,375 --> 01:08:37,208
  6206. But the other
  6207. thing is that
  6208.  
  6209. 1319
  6210. 01:08:37,291 --> 01:08:40,375
  6211. what about
  6212. reasons for good?
  6213.  
  6214. 1320
  6215. 01:08:40,458 --> 01:08:43,166
  6216. And I'll tell you
  6217. about a study we did.
  6218.  
  6219. 1321
  6220. 01:08:43,250 --> 01:08:45,583
  6221. And the experiment
  6222. works like this.
  6223.  
  6224. 1322
  6225. 01:08:45,667 --> 01:08:47,917
  6226. We give people a die,
  6227. a six-sided die,
  6228.  
  6229. 1323
  6230. 01:08:48,000 --> 01:08:50,041
  6231. and we say, "Why don't
  6232. you throw the die?"
  6233.  
  6234. 1324
  6235. 01:08:50,125 --> 01:08:52,125
  6236. And we'll pay you
  6237. whatever it comes up.
  6238.  
  6239. 1325
  6240. 01:08:52,208 --> 01:08:53,559
  6241. Comes in six,
  6242. you'll get six dollars
  6243.  
  6244. 1326
  6245. 01:08:53,583 --> 01:08:56,083
  6246. five, five dollars, four,
  6247. and so on until one.
  6248.  
  6249. 1327
  6250. 01:08:56,166 --> 01:08:59,834
  6251. But you can get paid based on
  6252. the top side or the bottom side.
  6253.  
  6254. 1328
  6255. 01:08:59,917 --> 01:09:02,750
  6256. Top or bottom, you decide,
  6257. but don't tell us.
  6258.  
  6259. 1329
  6260. 01:09:02,834 --> 01:09:05,417
  6261. So, I give you the die,
  6262. I say, "Don't tell me."
  6263.  
  6264. 1330
  6265. 01:09:05,500 --> 01:09:08,291
  6266. Think top or bottom.
  6267. You have it? You know which one?
  6268.  
  6269. 1331
  6270. 01:09:08,375 --> 01:09:10,583
  6271. Now, toss the die.
  6272.  
  6273. 1332
  6274. 01:09:12,417 --> 01:09:14,250
  6275. And let's say the die
  6276. comes five on the bottom
  6277.  
  6278. 1333
  6279. 01:09:14,333 --> 01:09:17,083
  6280. and two on the top.
  6281. And now I say,
  6282.  
  6283. 1334
  6284. 01:09:17,166 --> 01:09:19,166
  6285. "Alex, what did you pick?"
  6286.  
  6287. 1335
  6288. 01:09:19,250 --> 01:09:21,750
  6289. Now, if you picked bottom,
  6290. you say bottom, you get five dollars.
  6291.  
  6292. 1336
  6293. 01:09:21,834 --> 01:09:22,917
  6294. You pick top,
  6295.  
  6296. 1337
  6297. 01:09:23,000 --> 01:09:25,208
  6298. what do you say?
  6299. You say the truth? Top?
  6300.  
  6301. 1338
  6302. 01:09:25,291 --> 01:09:29,750
  6303. Or do you change your mind?
  6304. You say bottom and get five dollars.
  6305.  
  6306. 1339
  6307. 01:09:29,834 --> 01:09:32,125
  6308. In our experiment,
  6309. people do this 20 times.
  6310.  
  6311. 1340
  6312. 01:09:32,208 --> 01:09:33,768
  6313. And every time they
  6314. think top or bottom,
  6315.  
  6316. 1341
  6317. 01:09:33,792 --> 01:09:37,375
  6318. commit it to memory,
  6319. toss the die, and they write,
  6320.  
  6321. 1342
  6322. 01:09:37,458 --> 01:09:40,250
  6323. "Five and two.
  6324. I chose five," and so on.
  6325.  
  6326. 1343
  6327. 01:09:41,041 --> 01:09:42,559
  6328. And when you do it
  6329. 20 times, you find that
  6330.  
  6331. 1344
  6332. 01:09:42,583 --> 01:09:44,333
  6333. people are extra lucky.
  6334.  
  6335. 1345
  6336. 01:09:44,417 --> 01:09:47,041
  6337. Right? And luck has
  6338. this really nice feature
  6339.  
  6340. 1346
  6341. 01:09:47,125 --> 01:09:49,750
  6342. of focusing on the six-one
  6343. die tosses, right?
  6344.  
  6345. 1347
  6346. 01:09:49,834 --> 01:09:51,750
  6347. They're extra lucky on
  6348. the six-one die tosses,
  6349.  
  6350. 1348
  6351. 01:09:51,834 --> 01:09:53,709
  6352. not so much on
  6353. the three-four.
  6354.  
  6355. 1349
  6356. 01:09:53,792 --> 01:09:54,959
  6357. That's the basic experiment.
  6358.  
  6359. 1350
  6360. 01:09:55,041 --> 01:09:57,125
  6361. Now, here's the thing
  6362. I want to tell you.
  6363.  
  6364. 1351
  6365. 01:09:57,208 --> 01:09:58,834
  6366. We do the same experiment,
  6367.  
  6368. 1352
  6369. 01:09:58,917 --> 01:10:02,250
  6370. but we connect people
  6371. to a lie detector.
  6372.  
  6373. 1353
  6374. 01:10:02,333 --> 01:10:05,875
  6375. And we ask the question of whether
  6376. the lie detector can detect it,
  6377.  
  6378. 1354
  6379. 01:10:05,959 --> 01:10:08,959
  6380. and the answer is yes,
  6381. the lie detector can detect lies,
  6382.  
  6383. 1355
  6384. 01:10:09,041 --> 01:10:11,583
  6385. not all the time,
  6386. but it can detect it.
  6387.  
  6388. 1356
  6389. 01:10:11,667 --> 01:10:13,458
  6390. In another version
  6391. of the experiment,
  6392.  
  6393. 1357
  6394. 01:10:13,542 --> 01:10:15,291
  6395. we do the same thing,
  6396.  
  6397. 1358
  6398. 01:10:15,375 --> 01:10:17,333
  6399. but people pick a charity.
  6400.  
  6401. 1359
  6402. 01:10:17,417 --> 01:10:19,458
  6403. And all the money that
  6404. they're going to make today
  6405.  
  6406. 1360
  6407. 01:10:19,542 --> 01:10:22,166
  6408. goes to that charity.
  6409. Right? For a good cause.
  6410.  
  6411. 1361
  6412. 01:10:22,250 --> 01:10:24,917
  6413. What do you think happened,
  6414. people cheat more or less?
  6415.  
  6416. 1362
  6417. 01:10:25,000 --> 01:10:27,000
  6418. People cheat more.
  6419.  
  6420. 1363
  6421. 01:10:27,083 --> 01:10:29,583
  6422. And the lie detector
  6423. stops working.
  6424.  
  6425. 1364
  6426. 01:10:30,750 --> 01:10:33,333
  6427. Why? Because what does
  6428. the lie detector detect?
  6429.  
  6430. 1365
  6431. 01:10:33,417 --> 01:10:35,875
  6432. The lie detector
  6433. detects a tension.
  6434.  
  6435. 1366
  6436. 01:10:35,959 --> 01:10:38,000
  6437. I want more money,
  6438. but I think it's wrong.
  6439.  
  6440. 1367
  6441. 01:10:38,083 --> 01:10:39,792
  6442. I want more money,
  6443. but I think it's wrong,
  6444.  
  6445. 1368
  6446. 01:10:39,875 --> 01:10:41,625
  6447. but if it's not wrong,
  6448.  
  6449. 1369
  6450. 01:10:41,709 --> 01:10:43,458
  6451. why would you worry?
  6452.  
  6453. 1370
  6454. 01:10:43,542 --> 01:10:47,000
  6455. If it's for a good cause, you can still
  6456. think of yourself as a good person,
  6457.  
  6458. 1371
  6459. 01:10:47,083 --> 01:10:51,500
  6460. and that's how things start,
  6461. and then it becomes a slippery slope.
  6462.  
  6463. 1372
  6464. 01:11:09,250 --> 01:11:10,935
  6465. I was at the Wall Street Journal
  6466.  
  6467. 1373
  6468. 01:11:10,959 --> 01:11:13,000
  6469. on the fifth floor
  6470. of the Journal newsroom
  6471.  
  6472. 1374
  6473. 01:11:13,083 --> 01:11:14,792
  6474. in midtown Manhattan.
  6475.  
  6476. 1375
  6477. 01:11:14,875 --> 01:11:16,917
  6478. I had couple weeks
  6479. prior finished
  6480.  
  6481. 1376
  6482. 01:11:17,000 --> 01:11:19,500
  6483. a long series
  6484. on Medicare fraud.
  6485.  
  6486. 1377
  6487. 01:11:19,583 --> 01:11:20,667
  6488. So, I was looking for
  6489.  
  6490. 1378
  6491. 01:11:20,750 --> 01:11:23,417
  6492. something new to
  6493. sink my teeth into,
  6494.  
  6495. 1379
  6496. 01:11:23,500 --> 01:11:25,333
  6497. and one
  6498. afternoon,
  6499.  
  6500. 1380
  6501. 01:11:25,417 --> 01:11:27,583
  6502. I'm at my desk,
  6503. my phone rings, I pick up,
  6504.  
  6505. 1381
  6506. 01:11:27,667 --> 01:11:29,750
  6507. and it's this source of mine.
  6508.  
  6509. 1382
  6510. 01:11:29,834 --> 01:11:32,125
  6511. He asked me whether I'd read
  6512. this New Yorker profile
  6513.  
  6514. 1383
  6515. 01:11:32,208 --> 01:11:33,959
  6516. of Elizabeth Holmes
  6517. that had been published
  6518.  
  6519. 1384
  6520. 01:11:34,041 --> 01:11:37,375
  6521. a couple weeks prior
  6522. in December of 2014.
  6523.  
  6524. 1385
  6525. 01:11:37,458 --> 01:11:39,250
  6526. As it turns out, I had.
  6527.  
  6528. 1386
  6529. 01:11:39,333 --> 01:11:41,709
  6530. And there was a quote
  6531. from Elizabeth Holmes
  6532.  
  6533. 1387
  6534. 01:11:41,792 --> 01:11:45,417
  6535. that Ken Auletta described
  6536. as "comically vague."
  6537.  
  6538. 1388
  6539. 01:11:45,500 --> 01:11:47,041
  6540. It sounded like the words
  6541.  
  6542. 1389
  6543. 01:11:47,125 --> 01:11:48,625
  6544. of a high school
  6545. chemistry student,
  6546.  
  6547. 1390
  6548. 01:11:48,709 --> 01:11:51,667
  6549. as opposed to a sophisticated
  6550. laboratory scientist
  6551.  
  6552. 1391
  6553. 01:11:51,750 --> 01:11:54,917
  6554. who'd really
  6555. invented new science.
  6556.  
  6557. 1392
  6558. 01:11:55,000 --> 01:11:58,083
  6559. But I might not have
  6560. done anything about it
  6561.  
  6562. 1393
  6563. 01:11:58,166 --> 01:11:59,750
  6564. if it weren't for the fact that
  6565.  
  6566. 1394
  6567. 01:11:59,834 --> 01:12:03,750
  6568. my source was now coming
  6569. to me with this tip.
  6570.  
  6571. 1395
  6572. 01:12:03,834 --> 01:12:06,917
  6573. He said there's
  6574. a laboratory director
  6575.  
  6576. 1396
  6577. 01:12:07,000 --> 01:12:09,792
  6578. who had just left Theranos
  6579. on pretty bad terms
  6580.  
  6581. 1397
  6582. 01:12:09,875 --> 01:12:12,750
  6583. because he had become
  6584. increasingly concerned
  6585.  
  6586. 1398
  6587. 01:12:12,834 --> 01:12:16,125
  6588. about the practices that
  6589. he had witnessed there.
  6590.  
  6591. 1399
  6592. 01:12:16,667 --> 01:12:18,709
  6593. My ears definitely
  6594. pricked up at that,
  6595.  
  6596. 1400
  6597. 01:12:18,792 --> 01:12:20,834
  6598. and so I made contact.
  6599.  
  6600. 1401
  6601. 01:12:20,917 --> 01:12:23,208
  6602. When I got him on the phone,
  6603.  
  6604. 1402
  6605. 01:12:23,291 --> 01:12:25,375
  6606. after trying him a few times,
  6607. he was terrified.
  6608.  
  6609. 1403
  6610. 01:12:25,458 --> 01:12:28,625
  6611. He was being hounded by the law firm
  6612.  
  6613. 1404
  6614. 01:12:28,709 --> 01:12:31,458
  6615. of the famous
  6616. lawyer David Boies.
  6617.  
  6618. 1405
  6619. 01:12:31,542 --> 01:12:34,959
  6620. One of Theranos's strokes of
  6621. genius was to hire David Boies
  6622.  
  6623. 1406
  6624. 01:12:35,041 --> 01:12:38,083
  6625. and also give him
  6626. stock in the company.
  6627.  
  6628. 1407
  6629. 01:12:38,166 --> 01:12:40,959
  6630. I mean, this is a lion
  6631. of the legal industry,
  6632.  
  6633. 1408
  6634. 01:12:41,041 --> 01:12:43,542
  6635. arguably the most well-known
  6636. lawyer in America,
  6637.  
  6638. 1409
  6639. 01:12:43,625 --> 01:12:46,959
  6640. who had represented Al Gore in in
  6641. the presidential recount in 2000.
  6642.  
  6643. 1410
  6644. 01:12:47,041 --> 01:12:50,458
  6645. Before that, won a case on
  6646. behalf of the Justice Department
  6647.  
  6648. 1411
  6649. 01:12:50,542 --> 01:12:52,083
  6650. against Microsoft,
  6651.  
  6652. 1412
  6653. 01:12:52,166 --> 01:12:55,792
  6654. and had shred Bill Gates
  6655. during 20 hours of deposition.
  6656.  
  6657. 1413
  6658. 01:12:55,875 --> 01:12:58,625
  6659. And he would later become
  6660. famous as the legal muscle
  6661.  
  6662. 1414
  6663. 01:12:58,709 --> 01:13:02,834
  6664. for Harvey Weinstein and his
  6665. attempt to silence accusers.
  6666.  
  6667. 1415
  6668. 01:13:02,917 --> 01:13:06,625
  6669. This was someone who struck
  6670. fear in many people.
  6671.  
  6672. 1416
  6673. 01:13:06,709 --> 01:13:09,834
  6674. The lab director said
  6675. that Boies was pressuring him
  6676.  
  6677. 1417
  6678. 01:13:09,917 --> 01:13:12,834
  6679. and threatening him
  6680. with litigation.
  6681.  
  6682. 1418
  6683. 01:13:12,917 --> 01:13:15,125
  6684. So, I had to agree...
  6685.  
  6686. 1419
  6687. 01:13:15,208 --> 01:13:17,375
  6688. to keep his identity
  6689. confidential.
  6690.  
  6691. 1420
  6692. 01:13:18,875 --> 01:13:23,125
  6693. He told me that the Edison
  6694. could only do a few tests,
  6695.  
  6696. 1421
  6697. 01:13:23,208 --> 01:13:25,875
  6698. and that all the other
  6699. tests on Theranos's menu,
  6700.  
  6701. 1422
  6702. 01:13:25,959 --> 01:13:29,542
  6703. and at that point,
  6704. we're talking about 250 blood tests,
  6705.  
  6706. 1423
  6707. 01:13:29,625 --> 01:13:31,667
  6708. were done on
  6709. commercially available
  6710.  
  6711. 1424
  6712. 01:13:31,750 --> 01:13:34,041
  6713. laboratory machines
  6714. that had been purchased
  6715.  
  6716. 1425
  6717. 01:13:34,125 --> 01:13:37,750
  6718. from companies like
  6719. Siemens and DiaSorin.
  6720.  
  6721. 1426
  6722. 01:13:37,834 --> 01:13:39,333
  6723. And then they were also lying
  6724.  
  6725. 1427
  6726. 01:13:39,417 --> 01:13:43,500
  6727. about the reliability and the
  6728. accuracy of the blood tests.
  6729.  
  6730. 1428
  6731. 01:13:53,000 --> 01:13:54,458
  6732. So, I went to Arizona
  6733.  
  6734. 1429
  6735. 01:13:54,542 --> 01:13:56,041
  6736. to get myself tested.
  6737.  
  6738. 1430
  6739. 01:13:56,125 --> 01:13:57,542
  6740. And so,
  6741. one morning, I went
  6742.  
  6743. 1431
  6744. 01:13:57,625 --> 01:14:00,458
  6745. to the Walgreens that
  6746. was closest to my hotel.
  6747.  
  6748. 1432
  6749. 01:14:00,542 --> 01:14:02,041
  6750. I sat down
  6751. in one of these
  6752.  
  6753. 1433
  6754. 01:14:02,125 --> 01:14:04,208
  6755. little Wellness Centers,
  6756. and the phlebotomist,
  6757.  
  6758. 1434
  6759. 01:14:04,291 --> 01:14:06,041
  6760. I heard her talking
  6761. on the phone,
  6762.  
  6763. 1435
  6764. 01:14:06,125 --> 01:14:08,709
  6765. and typing on a computer
  6766. for a few minutes,
  6767.  
  6768. 1436
  6769. 01:14:08,792 --> 01:14:11,917
  6770. and then she turned around
  6771. and she came at me
  6772.  
  6773. 1437
  6774. 01:14:12,000 --> 01:14:14,208
  6775. with a tourniquet and a syringe.
  6776.  
  6777. 1438
  6778. 01:14:17,208 --> 01:14:19,542
  6779. And I said,
  6780. "Why not a fingerstick?
  6781.  
  6782. 1439
  6783. 01:14:19,625 --> 01:14:21,000
  6784. "I thought
  6785. this was all about,
  6786.  
  6787. 1440
  6788. 01:14:21,083 --> 01:14:23,458
  6789. you know,
  6790. a fingerstick blood test."
  6791.  
  6792. 1441
  6793. 01:14:23,542 --> 01:14:25,542
  6794. She said,
  6795. "No, your order actually
  6796.  
  6797. 1442
  6798. 01:14:25,625 --> 01:14:27,875
  6799. includes tests that
  6800. require venous draw."
  6801.  
  6802. 1443
  6803. 01:14:30,000 --> 01:14:33,375
  6804. The truth is that,
  6805. before my story came out,
  6806.  
  6807. 1444
  6808. 01:14:33,458 --> 01:14:35,542
  6809. there had already been
  6810. instances of people
  6811.  
  6812. 1445
  6813. 01:14:35,625 --> 01:14:37,250
  6814. going in to get
  6815. their blood checked,
  6816.  
  6817. 1446
  6818. 01:14:37,333 --> 01:14:39,625
  6819. and they would need
  6820. to do a venipuncture
  6821.  
  6822. 1447
  6823. 01:14:39,709 --> 01:14:43,208
  6824. instead of a fingerstick
  6825. of capillary blood.
  6826.  
  6827. 1448
  6828. 01:14:43,291 --> 01:14:45,917
  6829. And so, I asked about
  6830. that a number of times,
  6831.  
  6832. 1449
  6833. 01:14:46,000 --> 01:14:50,375
  6834. and the answers were
  6835. incredibly opaque.
  6836.  
  6837. 1450
  6838. 01:14:50,458 --> 01:14:51,935
  6839. So, my question is
  6840.  
  6841. 1451
  6842. 01:14:51,959 --> 01:14:54,083
  6843. what percentage
  6844. of your tests are
  6845.  
  6846. 1452
  6847. 01:14:54,166 --> 01:14:56,250
  6848. needle rather
  6849. than finger prick?
  6850.  
  6851. 1453
  6852. 01:14:56,333 --> 01:14:59,208
  6853. I-I don't have a really good number for you
  6854.  
  6855. 1454
  6856. 01:14:59,291 --> 01:15:01,125
  6857. because it's changing.
  6858.  
  6859. 1455
  6860. 01:15:01,208 --> 01:15:03,208
  6861. And we're really confident
  6862. being able to say
  6863.  
  6864. 1456
  6865. 01:15:03,291 --> 01:15:05,959
  6866. that we're very close
  6867. to 99% being on capillary,
  6868.  
  6869. 1457
  6870. 01:15:06,041 --> 01:15:08,834
  6871. but when you try
  6872. to pinpoint a number...
  6873.  
  6874. 1458
  6875. 01:15:08,917 --> 01:15:10,834
  6876. We talking about in the next
  6877.  
  6878. 1459
  6879. 01:15:10,917 --> 01:15:13,834
  6880. - five years? One year? Two months?
  6881. - No.
  6882.  
  6883. 1460
  6884. 01:15:13,917 --> 01:15:16,291
  6885. Much less than a year,
  6886.  
  6887. 1461
  6888. 01:15:16,375 --> 01:15:17,750
  6889. without question.
  6890.  
  6891. 1462
  6892. 01:15:18,709 --> 01:15:20,500
  6893. At the time,
  6894. you didn't think that
  6895.  
  6896. 1463
  6897. 01:15:20,583 --> 01:15:23,458
  6898. that was necessarily
  6899. evidence of...
  6900.  
  6901. 1464
  6902. 01:15:23,542 --> 01:15:25,834
  6903. Absolutely not.
  6904. I actually believed her.
  6905.  
  6906. 1465
  6907. 01:15:25,917 --> 01:15:29,291
  6908. Of course, I remember
  6909. her saying it to me.
  6910.  
  6911. 1466
  6912. 01:15:29,375 --> 01:15:32,083
  6913. And... that's a lie.
  6914.  
  6915. 1467
  6916. 01:15:33,000 --> 01:15:34,041
  6917. Period.
  6918.  
  6919. 1468
  6920. 01:15:38,583 --> 01:15:40,041
  6921. So, after a year or so,
  6922.  
  6923. 1469
  6924. 01:15:40,125 --> 01:15:43,959
  6925. we started to see the
  6926. fingerstick collection dwindle,
  6927.  
  6928. 1470
  6929. 01:15:44,041 --> 01:15:47,125
  6930. and more venipuncture increase.
  6931.  
  6932. 1471
  6933. 01:15:47,208 --> 01:15:49,792
  6934. What did they tell you
  6935. about why they were switching
  6936.  
  6937. 1472
  6938. 01:15:49,875 --> 01:15:53,083
  6939. to part fingerstick
  6940. and part venipuncture?
  6941.  
  6942. 1473
  6943. 01:15:53,166 --> 01:15:56,333
  6944. They just... They didn't tell us.
  6945. It just happened.
  6946.  
  6947. 1474
  6948. 01:15:56,417 --> 01:16:01,083
  6949. We were told we would need to
  6950. say this blanketed statement:
  6951.  
  6952. 1475
  6953. 01:16:01,166 --> 01:16:03,583
  6954. "Due to the test that
  6955. your physician ordered,
  6956.  
  6957. 1476
  6958. 01:16:03,667 --> 01:16:06,375
  6959. "we have to perform
  6960. venipuncture
  6961.  
  6962. 1477
  6963. 01:16:06,458 --> 01:16:08,291
  6964. "to make sure
  6965. that we had enough
  6966.  
  6967. 1478
  6968. 01:16:08,375 --> 01:16:12,000
  6969. "sample to perform the testing.
  6970.  
  6971. 1479
  6972. 01:16:12,083 --> 01:16:14,208
  6973. Would you like to proceed?"
  6974.  
  6975. 1480
  6976. 01:16:14,291 --> 01:16:16,625
  6977. - That's it.
  6978. - That must've surprised you.
  6979.  
  6980. 1481
  6981. 01:16:16,709 --> 01:16:19,208
  6982. Yeah, it surprised
  6983. a lot of the technicians.
  6984.  
  6985. 1482
  6986. 01:16:19,291 --> 01:16:21,166
  6987. It surprised
  6988. a lot of the patients,
  6989.  
  6990. 1483
  6991. 01:16:21,250 --> 01:16:22,890
  6992. or the customers
  6993. that were coming in, too.
  6994.  
  6995. 1484
  6996. 01:16:22,917 --> 01:16:27,166
  6997. Some people, uh,
  6998. expressed profanity,
  6999.  
  7000. 1485
  7001. 01:16:27,250 --> 01:16:31,333
  7002. stormed out,
  7003. demanded their money back.
  7004.  
  7005. 1486
  7006. 01:16:31,417 --> 01:16:35,333
  7007. Then, during that whole
  7008. transition to venipuncture,
  7009.  
  7010. 1487
  7011. 01:16:35,417 --> 01:16:41,250
  7012. we had this big hiring boom where
  7013. I had to train 50 more employees
  7014.  
  7015. 1488
  7016. 01:16:41,333 --> 01:16:45,959
  7017. because now we opened up
  7018. our next 10 Wellness Centers.
  7019.  
  7020. 1489
  7021. 01:16:48,792 --> 01:16:50,333
  7022. With the Walgreens roll out,
  7023.  
  7024. 1490
  7025. 01:16:50,417 --> 01:16:52,875
  7026. the problems at
  7027. Theranos were magnified.
  7028.  
  7029. 1491
  7030. 01:16:52,959 --> 01:16:55,500
  7031. Instead of shutting down
  7032. until the Edisons could perform
  7033.  
  7034. 1492
  7035. 01:16:55,583 --> 01:16:57,583
  7036. all the tests on
  7037. the Theranos menu,
  7038.  
  7039. 1493
  7040. 01:16:57,667 --> 01:17:01,291
  7041. Elizabeth and her team
  7042. invented a workaround designed
  7043.  
  7044. 1494
  7045. 01:17:01,375 --> 01:17:04,000
  7046. to create the illusion
  7047. of a new technology.
  7048.  
  7049. 1495
  7050. 01:17:04,083 --> 01:17:08,291
  7051. For most tests, they were forced to
  7052. use venous blood, drawn with needles,
  7053.  
  7054. 1496
  7055. 01:17:08,375 --> 01:17:11,625
  7056. and to buy the same machines
  7057. used by every other lab.
  7058.  
  7059. 1497
  7060. 01:17:11,709 --> 01:17:14,250
  7061. But to keep Elizabeth's
  7062. fingerstick dream alive,
  7063.  
  7064. 1498
  7065. 01:17:14,333 --> 01:17:16,625
  7066. Theranos modified
  7067. some of those machines,
  7068.  
  7069. 1499
  7070. 01:17:16,709 --> 01:17:19,875
  7071. so they would work with
  7072. diluted capillary samples.
  7073.  
  7074. 1500
  7075. 01:17:19,959 --> 01:17:21,500
  7076. And for a handful
  7077. of patient tests,
  7078.  
  7079. 1501
  7080. 01:17:21,583 --> 01:17:24,000
  7081. the company used
  7082. the old Edison prototype
  7083.  
  7084. 1502
  7085. 01:17:24,083 --> 01:17:26,458
  7086. Elizabeth had
  7087. pitched to Walgreens.
  7088.  
  7089. 1503
  7090. 01:17:26,542 --> 01:17:29,375
  7091. What we've worked to do
  7092. is eliminate the error
  7093.  
  7094. 1504
  7095. 01:17:29,458 --> 01:17:31,417
  7096. and variability
  7097. that's associated
  7098.  
  7099. 1505
  7100. 01:17:31,500 --> 01:17:34,333
  7101. with human processing
  7102. of samples.
  7103.  
  7104. 1506
  7105. 01:17:34,417 --> 01:17:37,625
  7106. When Elizabeth says the
  7107. whole process was automated
  7108.  
  7109. 1507
  7110. 01:17:37,709 --> 01:17:39,917
  7111. from start to finish,
  7112. it was...
  7113.  
  7114. 1508
  7115. 01:17:40,000 --> 01:17:42,709
  7116. it was, uh, yeah,
  7117. that was a stretch.
  7118.  
  7119. 1509
  7120. 01:17:42,792 --> 01:17:45,750
  7121. It would sometimes take six hours
  7122.  
  7123. 1510
  7124. 01:17:45,834 --> 01:17:47,667
  7125. just to set up the system
  7126.  
  7127. 1511
  7128. 01:17:47,750 --> 01:17:50,166
  7129. before we could even
  7130. run the patient samples.
  7131.  
  7132. 1512
  7133. 01:17:50,250 --> 01:17:52,875
  7134. I was filling up containers,
  7135.  
  7136. 1513
  7137. 01:17:52,959 --> 01:17:56,458
  7138. doing so many manual
  7139. things with hands.
  7140.  
  7141. 1514
  7142. 01:17:56,542 --> 01:17:58,792
  7143. And the scary thing about
  7144. the nanotainers was they could
  7145.  
  7146. 1515
  7147. 01:17:58,875 --> 01:18:01,000
  7148. hop off your tray and they
  7149. would be on the ground,
  7150.  
  7151. 1516
  7152. 01:18:01,083 --> 01:18:03,875
  7153. and you might not be
  7154. able to spot them.
  7155.  
  7156. 1517
  7157. 01:18:05,709 --> 01:18:07,542
  7158. They had to dilute the nanotainers
  7159.  
  7160. 1518
  7161. 01:18:07,625 --> 01:18:09,458
  7162. to run it on
  7163. the Siemens machines,
  7164.  
  7165. 1519
  7166. 01:18:09,542 --> 01:18:11,959
  7167. which was not how they
  7168. were supposed to be used,
  7169.  
  7170. 1520
  7171. 01:18:12,041 --> 01:18:14,208
  7172. and so people who worked
  7173. in the clinical lab
  7174.  
  7175. 1521
  7176. 01:18:14,291 --> 01:18:16,458
  7177. were nervous about that
  7178. because they were violating
  7179.  
  7180. 1522
  7181. 01:18:16,542 --> 01:18:19,208
  7182. the operating standards
  7183. for those devices,
  7184.  
  7185. 1523
  7186. 01:18:19,291 --> 01:18:21,125
  7187. which, you know,
  7188. are rigorous standards
  7189.  
  7190. 1524
  7191. 01:18:21,208 --> 01:18:23,125
  7192. since they're
  7193. being used to test
  7194.  
  7195. 1525
  7196. 01:18:23,208 --> 01:18:24,875
  7197. people for diseases.
  7198.  
  7199. 1526
  7200. 01:18:26,166 --> 01:18:28,333
  7201. We were fudging results,
  7202.  
  7203. 1527
  7204. 01:18:28,417 --> 01:18:31,959
  7205. rerunning quality control
  7206. tests until they passed.
  7207.  
  7208. 1528
  7209. 01:18:32,041 --> 01:18:33,583
  7210. The solution at some point was,
  7211.  
  7212. 1529
  7213. 01:18:33,667 --> 01:18:35,347
  7214. "If you just throw out
  7215. that one data point,
  7216.  
  7217. 1530
  7218. 01:18:35,375 --> 01:18:36,643
  7219. then the other three
  7220. look beautiful."
  7221.  
  7222. 1531
  7223. 01:18:36,667 --> 01:18:39,417
  7224. And that's not
  7225. the way you approach
  7226.  
  7227. 1532
  7228. 01:18:39,500 --> 01:18:41,709
  7229. science that's going to be
  7230. impacting people's lives.
  7231.  
  7232. 1533
  7233. 01:18:41,792 --> 01:18:44,125
  7234. There were people who had to run tests
  7235.  
  7236. 1534
  7237. 01:18:44,208 --> 01:18:46,208
  7238. on devices that they knew
  7239. weren't working,
  7240.  
  7241. 1535
  7242. 01:18:46,291 --> 01:18:49,667
  7243. and give those
  7244. results to patients.
  7245.  
  7246. 1536
  7247. 01:18:49,750 --> 01:18:52,709
  7248. People were very upset,
  7249. you know, crying.
  7250.  
  7251. 1537
  7252. 01:18:52,792 --> 01:18:54,333
  7253. Some members of
  7254. the CLIA lab would even
  7255.  
  7256. 1538
  7257. 01:18:54,417 --> 01:18:56,792
  7258. have to call patients and
  7259. tell them that they had to go
  7260.  
  7261. 1539
  7262. 01:18:56,875 --> 01:18:59,583
  7263. to the emergency room 'cause the
  7264. lab test was, you know, so far off.
  7265.  
  7266. 1540
  7267. 01:18:59,667 --> 01:19:01,709
  7268. What really hit home for me is
  7269.  
  7270. 1541
  7271. 01:19:01,792 --> 01:19:04,542
  7272. we were starting to do
  7273. more infectious disease.
  7274.  
  7275. 1542
  7276. 01:19:04,625 --> 01:19:07,083
  7277. Hepatitis C, prostate cancer,
  7278.  
  7279. 1543
  7280. 01:19:07,166 --> 01:19:09,000
  7281. and even syphilis.
  7282.  
  7283. 1544
  7284. 01:19:09,083 --> 01:19:11,750
  7285. I was running precision testing for syphilis,
  7286.  
  7287. 1545
  7288. 01:19:11,834 --> 01:19:15,458
  7289. and there was a lot of
  7290. variability in the test,
  7291.  
  7292. 1546
  7293. 01:19:16,208 --> 01:19:19,250
  7294. but Theranos said,
  7295. "This is safe to use
  7296.  
  7297. 1547
  7298. 01:19:19,333 --> 01:19:22,417
  7299. on real
  7300. patient samples."
  7301.  
  7302. 1548
  7303. 01:19:22,500 --> 01:19:24,375
  7304. And I was kind of blown away.
  7305.  
  7306. 1549
  7307. 01:19:24,458 --> 01:19:26,083
  7308. If a hundred people
  7309. who had syphilis
  7310.  
  7311. 1550
  7312. 01:19:26,166 --> 01:19:28,792
  7313. came and got tested
  7314. on the Theranos devices,
  7315.  
  7316. 1551
  7317. 01:19:28,875 --> 01:19:31,041
  7318. we would only tell 65 of
  7319. them that they had syphilis,
  7320.  
  7321. 1552
  7322. 01:19:31,125 --> 01:19:32,709
  7323. and we would tell the other 35,
  7324.  
  7325. 1553
  7326. 01:19:32,792 --> 01:19:35,041
  7327. "You're healthy. No need
  7328. for medical intervention."
  7329.  
  7330. 1554
  7331. 01:19:35,125 --> 01:19:39,041
  7332. So, if people are
  7333.  
  7334. 1555
  7335. 01:19:39,125 --> 01:19:42,542
  7336. testing themselves for
  7337. syphilis using Theranos,
  7338.  
  7339. 1556
  7340. 01:19:42,625 --> 01:19:44,726
  7341. there's going to be a lot more
  7342. syphilis in this world.
  7343.  
  7344. 1557
  7345. 01:19:49,417 --> 01:19:51,083
  7346. Their downfall was when they started
  7347.  
  7348. 1558
  7349. 01:19:51,166 --> 01:19:54,542
  7350. giving us results that
  7351. were not matching up
  7352.  
  7353. 1559
  7354. 01:19:54,625 --> 01:19:56,959
  7355. with other labs.
  7356.  
  7357. 1560
  7358. 01:19:57,041 --> 01:19:59,834
  7359. We started seeing that,
  7360. at first, with TSHs,
  7361.  
  7362. 1561
  7363. 01:19:59,917 --> 01:20:02,834
  7364. which is the thyroid
  7365. stimulating hormone.
  7366.  
  7367. 1562
  7368. 01:20:02,917 --> 01:20:05,250
  7369. Patients that had been
  7370. coming to us for years
  7371.  
  7372. 1563
  7373. 01:20:05,333 --> 01:20:06,583
  7374. to get their TSH done,
  7375.  
  7376. 1564
  7377. 01:20:06,667 --> 01:20:08,667
  7378. they had gone to
  7379. Theranos and their labs
  7380.  
  7381. 1565
  7382. 01:20:08,750 --> 01:20:11,458
  7383. were changing
  7384. really drastically.
  7385.  
  7386. 1566
  7387. 01:20:11,542 --> 01:20:14,333
  7388. So, we started sending
  7389. them to LabCorp,
  7390.  
  7391. 1567
  7392. 01:20:14,417 --> 01:20:16,057
  7393. just to verify, and
  7394. that's when we started
  7395.  
  7396. 1568
  7397. 01:20:16,125 --> 01:20:19,083
  7398. seeing some pretty
  7399. abnormal results.
  7400.  
  7401. 1569
  7402. 01:20:19,166 --> 01:20:20,375
  7403. I understand
  7404. how a patient
  7405.  
  7406. 1570
  7407. 01:20:20,458 --> 01:20:22,333
  7408. would wanna order
  7409. their own labs,
  7410.  
  7411. 1571
  7412. 01:20:22,417 --> 01:20:25,375
  7413. but then they get it and they
  7414. don't know what to do with it,
  7415.  
  7416. 1572
  7417. 01:20:25,458 --> 01:20:27,125
  7418. or they go
  7419. on Google
  7420.  
  7421. 1573
  7422. 01:20:27,208 --> 01:20:29,709
  7423. and google everything
  7424. under the sun,
  7425.  
  7426. 1574
  7427. 01:20:29,792 --> 01:20:32,083
  7428. and see that
  7429. they have cancer, so...
  7430.  
  7431. 1575
  7432. 01:20:32,166 --> 01:20:34,375
  7433. - When they don't.
  7434. - When they don't!
  7435.  
  7436. 1576
  7437. 01:20:34,458 --> 01:20:37,834
  7438. When you read about how
  7439. many tests were actually wrong...
  7440.  
  7441. 1577
  7442. 01:20:37,917 --> 01:20:39,834
  7443. - Mm-hmm.
  7444. - ...did that concern you?
  7445.  
  7446. 1578
  7447. 01:20:39,917 --> 01:20:42,000
  7448. It did because I had
  7449. some of those tests
  7450.  
  7451. 1579
  7452. 01:20:42,083 --> 01:20:44,625
  7453. performed on me
  7454. and my children!
  7455.  
  7456. 1580
  7457. 01:20:44,709 --> 01:20:46,375
  7458. I did!
  7459.  
  7460. 1581
  7461. 01:20:46,458 --> 01:20:50,125
  7462. So, I immediately
  7463. went back to...
  7464.  
  7465. 1582
  7466. 01:20:50,208 --> 01:20:52,542
  7467. the other
  7468. big lab companies,
  7469.  
  7470. 1583
  7471. 01:20:52,625 --> 01:20:55,250
  7472. and got my test done,
  7473. the same test done,
  7474.  
  7475. 1584
  7476. 01:20:55,333 --> 01:20:58,208
  7477. and I compared them,
  7478. and there was a big difference.
  7479.  
  7480. 1585
  7481. 01:20:58,458 --> 01:21:01,125
  7482. So, yeah, it was scary.
  7483.  
  7484. 1586
  7485. 01:21:01,208 --> 01:21:02,458
  7486. It was very scary.
  7487.  
  7488. 1587
  7489. 01:21:05,291 --> 01:21:08,291
  7490. There are so many people
  7491. who reach out to us and thank us.
  7492.  
  7493. 1588
  7494. 01:21:08,375 --> 01:21:11,417
  7495. This one guy, he said,
  7496. "Thank God for Theranos."
  7497.  
  7498. 1589
  7499. 01:21:11,500 --> 01:21:13,434
  7500. I mean, how many times you
  7501. say that about companies?
  7502.  
  7503. 1590
  7504. 01:21:13,458 --> 01:21:16,792
  7505. You buy a product, and do you
  7506. ever say, "Thank God for Uber?"
  7507.  
  7508. 1591
  7509. 01:21:16,875 --> 01:21:18,500
  7510. Well, maybe sometimes, but...
  7511.  
  7512. 1592
  7513. 01:21:18,583 --> 01:21:20,208
  7514. But you will say
  7515.  
  7516. 1593
  7517. 01:21:20,333 --> 01:21:22,333
  7518. thank God for
  7519. Theranos every day,
  7520.  
  7521. 1594
  7522. 01:21:22,417 --> 01:21:24,542
  7523. because every time
  7524. you need a lab test,
  7525.  
  7526. 1595
  7527. 01:21:24,625 --> 01:21:26,333
  7528. every time your
  7529. family needs a test...
  7530.  
  7531. 1596
  7532. 01:21:26,417 --> 01:21:28,000
  7533. I couldn't feel comfortable
  7534.  
  7535. 1597
  7536. 01:21:28,083 --> 01:21:30,583
  7537. with running these
  7538. tests on patients
  7539.  
  7540. 1598
  7541. 01:21:30,667 --> 01:21:31,959
  7542. because,
  7543. at the end of the day,
  7544.  
  7545. 1599
  7546. 01:21:32,041 --> 01:21:33,625
  7547. I wouldn't run them
  7548. on myself.
  7549.  
  7550. 1600
  7551. 01:21:33,709 --> 01:21:36,000
  7552. I wouldn't run them
  7553. on my family members.
  7554.  
  7555. 1601
  7556. 01:21:36,083 --> 01:21:38,583
  7557. And it just didn't
  7558. make sense that,
  7559.  
  7560. 1602
  7561. 01:21:38,667 --> 01:21:41,333
  7562. internally,
  7563. we had so little faith
  7564.  
  7565. 1603
  7566. 01:21:41,417 --> 01:21:42,583
  7567. in these tests,
  7568.  
  7569. 1604
  7570. 01:21:42,667 --> 01:21:45,375
  7571. but we're still resulting
  7572. them on patients.
  7573.  
  7574. 1605
  7575. 01:21:45,458 --> 01:21:47,125
  7576. Unprecedented transparency...
  7577.  
  7578. 1606
  7579. 01:21:47,208 --> 01:21:49,375
  7580. I finally decided enough is enough.
  7581.  
  7582. 1607
  7583. 01:21:49,458 --> 01:21:52,417
  7584. I went into Sunny's
  7585. office and I said,
  7586.  
  7587. 1608
  7588. 01:21:52,500 --> 01:21:54,000
  7589. "We're not letting
  7590. patients know
  7591.  
  7592. 1609
  7593. 01:21:54,083 --> 01:21:57,667
  7594. when these results are false
  7595. or when we make a mistake."
  7596.  
  7597. 1610
  7598. 01:21:57,750 --> 01:22:00,667
  7599. And effectively,
  7600. what he did is said,
  7601.  
  7602. 1611
  7603. 01:22:00,750 --> 01:22:04,750
  7604. "What makes you think you're
  7605. qualified to make that call?"
  7606.  
  7607. 1612
  7608. 01:22:04,834 --> 01:22:07,542
  7609. And, "You need to just
  7610. sit down and do your job."
  7611.  
  7612. 1613
  7613. 01:22:07,625 --> 01:22:09,417
  7614. Thank you.
  7615.  
  7616. 1614
  7617. 01:22:09,500 --> 01:22:11,208
  7618. At that point, I knew.
  7619.  
  7620. 1615
  7621. 01:22:11,291 --> 01:22:13,542
  7622. It's just unacceptable
  7623. what this company is doing,
  7624.  
  7625. 1616
  7626. 01:22:13,625 --> 01:22:15,417
  7627. and I don't want to be
  7628. a part of that.
  7629.  
  7630. 1617
  7631. 01:22:15,500 --> 01:22:17,959
  7632. The kind of technologies
  7633. that you're building
  7634.  
  7635. 1618
  7636. 01:22:18,041 --> 01:22:21,375
  7637. practically are changing
  7638. people's lives every single day.
  7639.  
  7640. 1619
  7641. 01:22:21,458 --> 01:22:25,125
  7642. I couldn't understand how
  7643. someone could continuously lie.
  7644.  
  7645. 1620
  7646. 01:22:25,208 --> 01:22:27,083
  7647. It really changed
  7648. my perception of her.
  7649.  
  7650. 1621
  7651. 01:22:27,166 --> 01:22:28,875
  7652. That, okay, this person,
  7653.  
  7654. 1622
  7655. 01:22:28,959 --> 01:22:30,709
  7656. you know, plays this role of,
  7657.  
  7658. 1623
  7659. 01:22:30,792 --> 01:22:33,083
  7660. you know, wanting to make
  7661. health care more accessible,
  7662.  
  7663. 1624
  7664. 01:22:33,166 --> 01:22:36,542
  7665. of really trying to leverage
  7666. innovative new technologies
  7667.  
  7668. 1625
  7669. 01:22:36,625 --> 01:22:39,750
  7670. to solve this huge problem
  7671. that we have in health care,
  7672.  
  7673. 1626
  7674. 01:22:39,834 --> 01:22:41,125
  7675. but it's all a show.
  7676.  
  7677. 1627
  7678. 01:22:41,208 --> 01:22:43,792
  7679. I grew up spending summers
  7680.  
  7681. 1628
  7682. 01:22:43,875 --> 01:22:46,583
  7683. and the holidays...
  7684.  
  7685. 1629
  7686. 01:22:46,667 --> 01:22:50,041
  7687. - ...with my uncle. I remember how much I loved him.
  7688. - I have a really vivid memory.
  7689.  
  7690. 1630
  7691. 01:22:50,125 --> 01:22:51,917
  7692. - I loved him so much.
  7693. - He was fine.
  7694.  
  7695. 1631
  7696. 01:22:52,000 --> 01:22:54,959
  7697. He was diagnosed one
  7698. day with skin cancer...
  7699.  
  7700. 1632
  7701. 01:22:55,041 --> 01:22:57,875
  7702. All of a sudden, - And one day,
  7703. he has brain cancer...
  7704.  
  7705. 1633
  7706. 01:22:57,959 --> 01:23:00,417
  7707. - And in his bones...
  7708. - All of a sudden...
  7709.  
  7710. 1634
  7711. 01:23:00,500 --> 01:23:02,750
  7712. He was gone before
  7713. I ever got to...
  7714.  
  7715. 1635
  7716. 01:23:02,834 --> 01:23:05,375
  7717. - My uncle...
  7718. - My uncle...
  7719.  
  7720. 1636
  7721. 01:23:20,291 --> 01:23:22,083
  7722. When I think of Theranos,
  7723.  
  7724. 1637
  7725. 01:23:22,166 --> 01:23:25,166
  7726. I really feel like there were
  7727. two entirely different worlds.
  7728.  
  7729. 1638
  7730. 01:23:25,291 --> 01:23:26,917
  7731. There was the carpeted world,
  7732.  
  7733. 1639
  7734. 01:23:27,000 --> 01:23:29,625
  7735. and there was the tiled world.
  7736.  
  7737. 1640
  7738. 01:23:29,709 --> 01:23:32,917
  7739. In the carpeted world was
  7740. where Elizabeth was a goddess.
  7741.  
  7742. 1641
  7743. 01:23:33,000 --> 01:23:36,417
  7744. Everyone almost worshiped
  7745. the ground she walked on.
  7746.  
  7747. 1642
  7748. 01:23:36,500 --> 01:23:40,917
  7749. She could do no wrong.
  7750. She was the next Steve Jobs.
  7751.  
  7752. 1643
  7753. 01:23:41,000 --> 01:23:43,208
  7754. Theranos was
  7755. changing the world.
  7756.  
  7757. 1644
  7758. 01:23:43,291 --> 01:23:46,375
  7759. And then you go into the tiled
  7760. side and nothing works.
  7761.  
  7762. 1645
  7763. 01:23:46,458 --> 01:23:48,166
  7764. We're on a sinking ship.
  7765.  
  7766. 1646
  7767. 01:23:48,250 --> 01:23:50,250
  7768. Everything's a lie.
  7769.  
  7770. 1647
  7771. 01:23:50,333 --> 01:23:52,250
  7772. Reconciling
  7773. the differences between
  7774.  
  7775. 1648
  7776. 01:23:52,333 --> 01:23:54,917
  7777. those two worlds was
  7778. really hard for me to do.
  7779.  
  7780. 1649
  7781. 01:23:55,000 --> 01:23:57,500
  7782. I knew Elizabeth personally
  7783. from all these
  7784.  
  7785. 1650
  7786. 01:23:57,583 --> 01:24:00,208
  7787. interactions
  7788. through my family,
  7789.  
  7790. 1651
  7791. 01:24:00,875 --> 01:24:03,166
  7792. so I really trusted her.
  7793. I believed in her.
  7794.  
  7795. 1652
  7796. 01:24:03,250 --> 01:24:05,291
  7797. I would leave
  7798. the tiled world thinking,
  7799.  
  7800. 1653
  7801. 01:24:05,375 --> 01:24:06,667
  7802. "Oh man, sinking ship."
  7803.  
  7804. 1654
  7805. 01:24:06,750 --> 01:24:08,559
  7806. And I would go have one
  7807. conversation with Elizabeth.
  7808.  
  7809. 1655
  7810. 01:24:08,583 --> 01:24:11,000
  7811. Theranos was founded with the goal
  7812.  
  7813. 1656
  7814. 01:24:11,083 --> 01:24:13,500
  7815. of creating a more human,
  7816. actionable health experience.
  7817.  
  7818. 1657
  7819. 01:24:13,583 --> 01:24:16,000
  7820. If you can begin to understand your body...
  7821.  
  7822. 1658
  7823. 01:24:16,083 --> 01:24:18,500
  7824. And I would be so
  7825. motivated to go back and work,
  7826.  
  7827. 1659
  7828. 01:24:18,583 --> 01:24:20,423
  7829. and I felt like I was
  7830. changing the world again.
  7831.  
  7832. 1660
  7833. 01:24:20,500 --> 01:24:22,166
  7834. And I would go back
  7835. into the tiled world,
  7836.  
  7837. 1661
  7838. 01:24:22,250 --> 01:24:24,583
  7839. and I would go, wait,
  7840. what just happened?
  7841.  
  7842. 1662
  7843. 01:24:24,667 --> 01:24:27,542
  7844. You want it
  7845. to be true so badly,
  7846.  
  7847. 1663
  7848. 01:24:27,625 --> 01:24:31,500
  7849. and even for me, I was
  7850. working with these devices
  7851.  
  7852. 1664
  7853. 01:24:31,583 --> 01:24:32,834
  7854. every single day,
  7855.  
  7856. 1665
  7857. 01:24:32,917 --> 01:24:35,500
  7858. and she could still
  7859. kind of convince me.
  7860.  
  7861. 1666
  7862. 01:24:37,083 --> 01:24:38,834
  7863. When I think back
  7864. on those conversations,
  7865.  
  7866. 1667
  7867. 01:24:38,917 --> 01:24:41,417
  7868. I just think,
  7869. how did she do that?
  7870.  
  7871. 1668
  7872. 01:24:44,750 --> 01:24:47,542
  7873. You start to believe that
  7874. maybe you're the one who's crazy.
  7875.  
  7876. 1669
  7877. 01:24:47,625 --> 01:24:49,625
  7878. Because everyone else
  7879. thinks this woman's great,
  7880.  
  7881. 1670
  7882. 01:24:49,709 --> 01:24:51,267
  7883. and everyone else wants
  7884. to throw money at her,
  7885.  
  7886. 1671
  7887. 01:24:51,291 --> 01:24:54,875
  7888. wants to be on board with this,
  7889. and wants to be a part of it.
  7890.  
  7891. 1672
  7892. 01:24:54,959 --> 01:24:57,625
  7893. I mean, at the time,
  7894. she was this iconic figure,
  7895.  
  7896. 1673
  7897. 01:24:57,709 --> 01:24:59,917
  7898. this woman in tech who was
  7899. revolutionizing everything,
  7900.  
  7901. 1674
  7902. 01:25:00,000 --> 01:25:03,041
  7903. this Steve Jobs imitation.
  7904.  
  7905. 1675
  7906. 01:25:03,125 --> 01:25:05,458
  7907. Sometimes, you have to think
  7908. maybe you're wrong.
  7909.  
  7910. 1676
  7911. 01:25:10,959 --> 01:25:13,417
  7912. At the time,
  7913. you wondered whether
  7914.  
  7915. 1677
  7916. 01:25:13,500 --> 01:25:17,375
  7917. Elizabeth's connections
  7918. were protecting her.
  7919.  
  7920. 1678
  7921. 01:25:17,458 --> 01:25:21,083
  7922. It kind of caused a bit
  7923. of a crisis of faith
  7924.  
  7925. 1679
  7926. 01:25:21,166 --> 01:25:25,208
  7927. in, you know, just the power
  7928. of government, and how
  7929.  
  7930. 1680
  7931. 01:25:25,291 --> 01:25:27,291
  7932. corrupt or not they were for me.
  7933.  
  7934. 1681
  7935. 01:25:27,375 --> 01:25:29,709
  7936. I thought that Theranos
  7937. was going to get away with it.
  7938.  
  7939. 1682
  7940. 01:25:32,917 --> 01:25:35,166
  7941. You're charging historically low prices,
  7942.  
  7943. 1683
  7944. 01:25:35,250 --> 01:25:37,917
  7945. which is
  7946. a small fraction
  7947.  
  7948. 1684
  7949. 01:25:38,000 --> 01:25:40,000
  7950. of what is
  7951. charged now,
  7952.  
  7953. 1685
  7954. 01:25:40,083 --> 01:25:42,250
  7955. and while maintaining
  7956. the highest standards.
  7957.  
  7958. 1686
  7959. 01:25:42,333 --> 01:25:45,083
  7960. With all her political connections,
  7961.  
  7962. 1687
  7963. 01:25:45,166 --> 01:25:48,125
  7964. she was chummy with
  7965. the Obama administration.
  7966.  
  7967. 1688
  7968. 01:25:48,208 --> 01:25:50,083
  7969. The bet that she made was that
  7970.  
  7971. 1689
  7972. 01:25:50,166 --> 01:25:53,083
  7973. if she surrounded herself
  7974. with powerful people,
  7975.  
  7976. 1690
  7977. 01:25:53,166 --> 01:25:56,333
  7978. the regulators wouldn't get
  7979. confrontational with her.
  7980.  
  7981. 1691
  7982. 01:25:57,208 --> 01:25:58,542
  7983. The end game, I think,
  7984.  
  7985. 1692
  7986. 01:25:58,625 --> 01:26:01,500
  7987. it comes back to
  7988. "fake it until you make it."
  7989.  
  7990. 1693
  7991. 01:26:02,667 --> 01:26:05,583
  7992. Elizabeth never gave up
  7993. on her ultimate vision
  7994.  
  7995. 1694
  7996. 01:26:05,667 --> 01:26:08,250
  7997. to get the device
  7998. not only in stores,
  7999.  
  8000. 1695
  8001. 01:26:08,333 --> 01:26:11,083
  8002. but ultimately,
  8003. in the homes of patients.
  8004.  
  8005. 1696
  8006. 01:26:11,166 --> 01:26:13,750
  8007. She wanted to be like
  8008. Apple and Steve Jobs,
  8009.  
  8010. 1697
  8011. 01:26:13,834 --> 01:26:18,208
  8012. in the sense that Apple
  8013. devices are ubiquitous.
  8014.  
  8015. 1698
  8016. 01:26:18,291 --> 01:26:21,583
  8017. She wanted Edison devices
  8018. in every home in America.
  8019.  
  8020. 1699
  8021. 01:26:24,166 --> 01:26:27,667
  8022. The only thing is you need FDA
  8023. approval to make that happen.
  8024.  
  8025. 1700
  8026. 01:26:33,792 --> 01:26:37,250
  8027. I did talk to the Chief
  8028. Medical person at the FDA,
  8029.  
  8030. 1701
  8031. 01:26:37,333 --> 01:26:40,291
  8032. who expressed some
  8033. skepticism. He said...
  8034.  
  8035. 1702
  8036. 01:26:40,375 --> 01:26:42,768
  8037. "They have not provided enough information
  8038.  
  8039. 1703
  8040. 01:26:42,792 --> 01:26:46,250
  8041. for the agency to clear
  8042. or approve the test."
  8043.  
  8044. 1704
  8045. 01:26:46,333 --> 01:26:47,709
  8046. Accurate?
  8047.  
  8048. 1705
  8049. 01:26:47,792 --> 01:26:49,250
  8050. So, is this something that
  8051.  
  8052. 1706
  8053. 01:26:49,333 --> 01:26:51,792
  8054. - you wanted actually to use in the article?
  8055. - Yes.
  8056.  
  8057. 1707
  8058. 01:26:51,875 --> 01:26:53,542
  8059. Okay,
  8060. so that's part of a challenge
  8061.  
  8062. 1708
  8063. 01:26:53,625 --> 01:26:55,875
  8064. because that our legal team
  8065. is so concerned about this
  8066.  
  8067. 1709
  8068. 01:26:55,959 --> 01:26:58,250
  8069. because there's a lot
  8070. of context behind that.
  8071.  
  8072. 1710
  8073. 01:26:58,333 --> 01:27:00,500
  8074. It creates... causes
  8075. a lot of problems for us.
  8076.  
  8077. 1711
  8078. 01:27:00,583 --> 01:27:02,223
  8079. That's why I'm asking for context.
  8080.  
  8081. 1712
  8082. 01:27:02,250 --> 01:27:05,333
  8083. Give it to me. I'm all ears.
  8084.  
  8085. 1713
  8086. 01:27:05,417 --> 01:27:07,500
  8087. Okay,
  8088. let me talk to our legal team.
  8089.  
  8090. 1714
  8091. 01:27:07,583 --> 01:27:10,750
  8092. Right now, they told me that
  8093. I can't comment on this...
  8094.  
  8095. 1715
  8096. 01:27:10,834 --> 01:27:12,291
  8097. Elizabeth was tap dancing
  8098.  
  8099. 1716
  8100. 01:27:12,375 --> 01:27:14,458
  8101. around her discussions
  8102. with the FDA.
  8103.  
  8104. 1717
  8105. 01:27:14,542 --> 01:27:16,667
  8106. Rather than submit
  8107. full applications,
  8108.  
  8109. 1718
  8110. 01:27:16,750 --> 01:27:20,458
  8111. Theranos flooded the FDA with
  8112. vague exploratory letters,
  8113.  
  8114. 1719
  8115. 01:27:20,542 --> 01:27:22,125
  8116. trying to stall for time,
  8117.  
  8118. 1720
  8119. 01:27:22,208 --> 01:27:23,959
  8120. till the Edisons
  8121. could do all the tests
  8122.  
  8123. 1721
  8124. 01:27:24,041 --> 01:27:25,834
  8125. that Theranos advertised,
  8126.  
  8127. 1722
  8128. 01:27:25,917 --> 01:27:27,500
  8129. and that could take years.
  8130.  
  8131. 1723
  8132. 01:27:29,125 --> 01:27:32,000
  8133. In the meantime, the Theranos
  8134. operation in Palo Alto
  8135.  
  8136. 1724
  8137. 01:27:32,083 --> 01:27:34,000
  8138. was being regulated by CMS,
  8139.  
  8140. 1725
  8141. 01:27:34,083 --> 01:27:37,375
  8142. the federal agency
  8143. in charge of clinical labs.
  8144.  
  8145. 1726
  8146. 01:27:37,458 --> 01:27:40,125
  8147. Theranos was also
  8148. playing games with them.
  8149.  
  8150. 1727
  8151. 01:27:40,208 --> 01:27:43,458
  8152. Even though some patient tests
  8153. were performed on Edisons,
  8154.  
  8155. 1728
  8156. 01:27:43,542 --> 01:27:45,750
  8157. Theranos never reported those.
  8158.  
  8159. 1729
  8160. 01:27:45,834 --> 01:27:49,834
  8161. The company only gave CMS the
  8162. data from third-party machines.
  8163.  
  8164. 1730
  8165. 01:27:50,583 --> 01:27:51,750
  8166. The decision was
  8167.  
  8168. 1731
  8169. 01:27:51,834 --> 01:27:54,000
  8170. let's send what was
  8171. on the Immulite
  8172.  
  8173. 1732
  8174. 01:27:54,083 --> 01:27:55,125
  8175. and on the Siemens Advia.
  8176.  
  8177. 1733
  8178. 01:27:55,208 --> 01:27:58,041
  8179. Let's not send
  8180. the Edison results.
  8181.  
  8182. 1734
  8183. 01:27:58,125 --> 01:27:59,267
  8184. And that really freaked me out
  8185.  
  8186. 1735
  8187. 01:27:59,291 --> 01:28:00,875
  8188. because that was
  8189. suggesting that,
  8190.  
  8191. 1736
  8192. 01:28:00,959 --> 01:28:03,625
  8193. okay, we didn't trust
  8194. the Edison test.
  8195.  
  8196. 1737
  8197. 01:28:03,709 --> 01:28:05,709
  8198. And here, we were able
  8199. to make that discernment
  8200.  
  8201. 1738
  8202. 01:28:05,792 --> 01:28:08,291
  8203. of what was
  8204. the appropriate one to send,
  8205.  
  8206. 1739
  8207. 01:28:08,375 --> 01:28:10,458
  8208. but we weren't doing
  8209. that with patients.
  8210.  
  8211. 1740
  8212. 01:28:12,291 --> 01:28:15,208
  8213. And when CMS came in
  8214. for the inspection,
  8215.  
  8216. 1741
  8217. 01:28:15,291 --> 01:28:17,959
  8218. Sunny and Elizabeth
  8219. only showed them the lab
  8220.  
  8221. 1742
  8222. 01:28:18,041 --> 01:28:20,458
  8223. with the Siemens Advia,
  8224. the Immulite.
  8225.  
  8226. 1743
  8227. 01:28:20,542 --> 01:28:23,542
  8228. They never took them downstairs
  8229. to the secondary lab,
  8230.  
  8231. 1744
  8232. 01:28:23,625 --> 01:28:27,125
  8233. where we processed all the
  8234. fingersticks on the Edisons.
  8235.  
  8236. 1745
  8237. 01:28:27,208 --> 01:28:28,834
  8238. They strictly told us
  8239.  
  8240. 1746
  8241. 01:28:28,917 --> 01:28:30,375
  8242. to stay at your desk.
  8243.  
  8244. 1747
  8245. 01:28:30,458 --> 01:28:31,959
  8246. They didn't want
  8247. any of us down there
  8248.  
  8249. 1748
  8250. 01:28:32,041 --> 01:28:33,917
  8251. 'cause they were scared
  8252. if the inspectors
  8253.  
  8254. 1749
  8255. 01:28:34,000 --> 01:28:37,417
  8256. saw what was going on, that
  8257. could have huge consequences.
  8258.  
  8259. 1750
  8260. 01:28:37,500 --> 01:28:40,583
  8261. It just seemed
  8262. scandalous to us.
  8263.  
  8264. 1751
  8265. 01:28:40,667 --> 01:28:44,542
  8266. It was getting to the point
  8267. where there was really no hope.
  8268.  
  8269. 1752
  8270. 01:28:44,625 --> 01:28:46,083
  8271. You know,
  8272. I'd pretty much decided
  8273.  
  8274. 1753
  8275. 01:28:46,166 --> 01:28:48,166
  8276. that I was
  8277. going to quit.
  8278.  
  8279. 1754
  8280. 01:28:51,750 --> 01:28:53,417
  8281. Right after I resigned,
  8282.  
  8283. 1755
  8284. 01:28:53,500 --> 01:28:57,208
  8285. I went to my grandfather's
  8286. office at Stanford,
  8287.  
  8288. 1756
  8289. 01:28:57,291 --> 01:28:59,542
  8290. and actually showed
  8291. him a lot of data,
  8292.  
  8293. 1757
  8294. 01:28:59,625 --> 01:29:02,041
  8295. and the discrepancy
  8296. between what I was seeing
  8297.  
  8298. 1758
  8299. 01:29:02,125 --> 01:29:03,417
  8300. and what was being published,
  8301.  
  8302. 1759
  8303. 01:29:03,500 --> 01:29:06,083
  8304. and the explanation
  8305. for those differences.
  8306.  
  8307. 1760
  8308. 01:29:06,166 --> 01:29:10,500
  8309. But he didn't really seem
  8310. to believe what I was saying,
  8311.  
  8312. 1761
  8313. 01:29:10,583 --> 01:29:12,500
  8314. and he said,
  8315. "Elizabeth has told me that
  8316.  
  8317. 1762
  8318. 01:29:12,583 --> 01:29:15,375
  8319. "Theranos really can do all the
  8320. things that it says it can do.
  8321.  
  8322. 1763
  8323. 01:29:15,458 --> 01:29:18,041
  8324. "Theranos is more accurate,
  8325. going to change the world.
  8326.  
  8327. 1764
  8328. 01:29:18,125 --> 01:29:20,375
  8329. "They're trying to convince
  8330. me that you're stupid.
  8331.  
  8332. 1765
  8333. 01:29:20,458 --> 01:29:21,935
  8334. "They can't convince
  8335. me that you're stupid,
  8336.  
  8337. 1766
  8338. 01:29:21,959 --> 01:29:23,875
  8339. "but they can convince
  8340. me that you're wrong.
  8341.  
  8342. 1767
  8343. 01:29:23,959 --> 01:29:25,709
  8344. "And I do think
  8345. that you're wrong,
  8346.  
  8347. 1768
  8348. 01:29:25,792 --> 01:29:27,959
  8349. so move on with your life."
  8350.  
  8351. 1769
  8352. 01:29:31,333 --> 01:29:33,375
  8353. A few months afterwards,
  8354.  
  8355. 1770
  8356. 01:29:33,458 --> 01:29:36,166
  8357. John Carreyou from
  8358. the Wall Street Journal
  8359.  
  8360. 1771
  8361. 01:29:36,250 --> 01:29:39,291
  8362. sent me a message on LinkedIn.
  8363.  
  8364. 1772
  8365. 01:29:39,375 --> 01:29:41,333
  8366. I was definitely in a panic.
  8367.  
  8368. 1773
  8369. 01:29:41,417 --> 01:29:42,726
  8370. There were
  8371. confidentiality agreements
  8372.  
  8373. 1774
  8374. 01:29:42,750 --> 01:29:44,390
  8375. that I had signed
  8376. while I was at Theranos.
  8377.  
  8378. 1775
  8379. 01:29:44,458 --> 01:29:47,291
  8380. So, I went and bought
  8381. a burner phone with cash.
  8382.  
  8383. 1776
  8384. 01:29:47,375 --> 01:29:50,500
  8385. I called him,
  8386. and in that phone call,
  8387.  
  8388. 1777
  8389. 01:29:50,583 --> 01:29:52,500
  8390. I decided that I wanted
  8391. to help him out.
  8392.  
  8393. 1778
  8394. 01:29:53,917 --> 01:29:57,667
  8395. I said, my grandfather
  8396. made it through Watergate,
  8397.  
  8398. 1779
  8399. 01:29:57,750 --> 01:29:59,166
  8400. and the Iran-Contra scandal
  8401.  
  8402. 1780
  8403. 01:29:59,250 --> 01:30:02,583
  8404. with his integrity
  8405. completely intact.
  8406.  
  8407. 1781
  8408. 01:30:02,667 --> 01:30:04,709
  8409. Once he becomes aware of
  8410. the fraud that's happening,
  8411.  
  8412. 1782
  8413. 01:30:04,792 --> 01:30:07,667
  8414. he will do everything
  8415. he can to make things right.
  8416.  
  8417. 1783
  8418. 01:30:07,750 --> 01:30:09,267
  8419. And I want to give
  8420. him that opportunity
  8421.  
  8422. 1784
  8423. 01:30:09,291 --> 01:30:12,917
  8424. because, I think he was 94,
  8425. 95 at the time.
  8426.  
  8427. 1785
  8428. 01:30:14,375 --> 01:30:16,667
  8429. So, I met with John in person,
  8430.  
  8431. 1786
  8432. 01:30:16,750 --> 01:30:19,375
  8433. and then he sent Theranos
  8434.  
  8435. 1787
  8436. 01:30:19,458 --> 01:30:21,500
  8437. some prodding questions,
  8438.  
  8439. 1788
  8440. 01:30:21,583 --> 01:30:24,291
  8441. and there was just
  8442. one number in there.
  8443.  
  8444. 1789
  8445. 01:30:24,375 --> 01:30:27,667
  8446. 42.9% that I had calculated
  8447. for one of these tests,
  8448.  
  8449. 1790
  8450. 01:30:27,750 --> 01:30:31,166
  8451. that was also in an e-mail
  8452. that I had sent to Elizabeth.
  8453.  
  8454. 1791
  8455. 01:30:35,458 --> 01:30:36,875
  8456. About a month after that,
  8457.  
  8458. 1792
  8459. 01:30:36,959 --> 01:30:39,542
  8460. I went to go have dinner
  8461. with my parents.
  8462.  
  8463. 1793
  8464. 01:30:39,625 --> 01:30:41,542
  8465. I walk in the door,
  8466. and my dad says,
  8467.  
  8468. 1794
  8469. 01:30:41,625 --> 01:30:44,375
  8470. "Have you been speaking to a
  8471. Wall Street Journal reporter?"
  8472.  
  8473. 1795
  8474. 01:30:44,458 --> 01:30:47,375
  8475. And I said yes.
  8476.  
  8477. 1796
  8478. 01:30:47,458 --> 01:30:49,250
  8479. And he said,
  8480. "Well, they know."
  8481.  
  8482. 1797
  8483. 01:30:55,041 --> 01:30:56,458
  8484. After I leave Theranos,
  8485.  
  8486. 1798
  8487. 01:30:56,542 --> 01:30:59,875
  8488. I kind of want to be as far
  8489. away from them as possible.
  8490.  
  8491. 1799
  8492. 01:30:59,959 --> 01:31:02,792
  8493. I was working another job,
  8494. and at this point,
  8495.  
  8496. 1800
  8497. 01:31:02,875 --> 01:31:06,250
  8498. I had talked to John Carreyrou
  8499. from the Wall Street Journal,
  8500.  
  8501. 1801
  8502. 01:31:06,333 --> 01:31:08,542
  8503. who was doing
  8504. an investigative report.
  8505.  
  8506. 1802
  8507. 01:31:11,542 --> 01:31:13,917
  8508. So, I'm at work one day.
  8509. I'm working late,
  8510.  
  8511. 1803
  8512. 01:31:14,000 --> 01:31:15,792
  8513. and two of my
  8514. colleagues are leaving,
  8515.  
  8516. 1804
  8517. 01:31:15,875 --> 01:31:17,917
  8518. and I'm going to be
  8519. the only one in the building.
  8520.  
  8521. 1805
  8522. 01:31:18,000 --> 01:31:20,125
  8523. And they look outside,
  8524. and they're like, "Hey, Erika.
  8525.  
  8526. 1806
  8527. 01:31:20,208 --> 01:31:22,008
  8528. "There's been this guy
  8529. who's just been sitting
  8530.  
  8531. 1807
  8532. 01:31:22,041 --> 01:31:25,750
  8533. in our parking lot
  8534. for the whole day."
  8535.  
  8536. 1808
  8537. 01:31:25,834 --> 01:31:28,458
  8538. And that's very unusual.
  8539.  
  8540. 1809
  8541. 01:31:31,417 --> 01:31:34,083
  8542. So, they walk me to my car,
  8543.  
  8544. 1810
  8545. 01:31:34,166 --> 01:31:37,500
  8546. and then this guy comes up,
  8547. and he gives me this letter.
  8548.  
  8549. 1811
  8550. 01:31:37,583 --> 01:31:40,166
  8551. And it has the address
  8552. of this temporary home
  8553.  
  8554. 1812
  8555. 01:31:40,250 --> 01:31:43,750
  8556. that I'm staying at,
  8557. so no one knows this address.
  8558.  
  8559. 1813
  8560. 01:31:43,834 --> 01:31:47,166
  8561. And I open it, and it's
  8562. a letter from David Boies.
  8563.  
  8564. 1814
  8565. 01:31:48,000 --> 01:31:50,458
  8566. "If you don't come forward with
  8567.  
  8568. 1815
  8569. 01:31:50,542 --> 01:31:53,291
  8570. "X, Y, and Z document,
  8571. or report these people,
  8572.  
  8573. 1816
  8574. 01:31:53,375 --> 01:31:55,875
  8575. there's a potential
  8576. that we could sue you."
  8577.  
  8578. 1817
  8579. 01:31:57,166 --> 01:31:59,333
  8580. It was quite,
  8581. quite scary for me.
  8582.  
  8583. 1818
  8584. 01:31:59,417 --> 01:32:01,333
  8585. Especially coming
  8586. from a position of,
  8587.  
  8588. 1819
  8589. 01:32:01,417 --> 01:32:03,834
  8590. what, I was 23 at that point?
  8591.  
  8592. 1820
  8593. 01:32:03,917 --> 01:32:06,375
  8594. You know, I had not really
  8595.  
  8596. 1821
  8597. 01:32:06,458 --> 01:32:09,333
  8598. not really any money to spend
  8599. on lawyers or anything.
  8600.  
  8601. 1822
  8602. 01:32:09,417 --> 01:32:11,166
  8603. I was really freaked out.
  8604.  
  8605. 1823
  8606. 01:32:14,250 --> 01:32:16,250
  8607. I'd been asking for an interview
  8608.  
  8609. 1824
  8610. 01:32:16,333 --> 01:32:18,166
  8611. with Elizabeth
  8612. for several months,
  8613.  
  8614. 1825
  8615. 01:32:18,250 --> 01:32:21,083
  8616. and they were giving
  8617. me the runaround.
  8618.  
  8619. 1826
  8620. 01:32:21,166 --> 01:32:24,166
  8621. Finally, in June 2015,
  8622.  
  8623. 1827
  8624. 01:32:24,250 --> 01:32:27,583
  8625. we agreed that we'd have a
  8626. meeting at the Journal offices.
  8627.  
  8628. 1828
  8629. 01:32:28,875 --> 01:32:31,834
  8630. This Theranos delegation
  8631. comes in, it's seven people,
  8632.  
  8633. 1829
  8634. 01:32:31,917 --> 01:32:33,750
  8635. four of whom are lawyers,
  8636.  
  8637. 1830
  8638. 01:32:33,834 --> 01:32:37,875
  8639. led by David Boies, and one of the
  8640. other lawyers is Heather King...
  8641.  
  8642. 1831
  8643. 01:32:37,959 --> 01:32:40,083
  8644. Heather has just joined
  8645. us as our general counsel.
  8646.  
  8647. 1832
  8648. 01:32:40,166 --> 01:32:43,208
  8649. ...who had been a Boies Schiller partner,
  8650.  
  8651. 1833
  8652. 01:32:43,291 --> 01:32:45,792
  8653. former Hillary Clinton aide.
  8654.  
  8655. 1834
  8656. 01:32:45,875 --> 01:32:49,000
  8657. Couple of minutes into
  8658. the meeting, Heather King
  8659.  
  8660. 1835
  8661. 01:32:49,083 --> 01:32:51,500
  8662. puts a little tape recorder
  8663. down on the table.
  8664.  
  8665. 1836
  8666. 01:32:51,583 --> 01:32:52,875
  8667. Another Boies Schiller attorney
  8668.  
  8669. 1837
  8670. 01:32:52,959 --> 01:32:54,875
  8671. put a little tape recorder
  8672.  
  8673. 1838
  8674. 01:32:54,959 --> 01:32:56,667
  8675. on the other end of
  8676. the conference table,
  8677.  
  8678. 1839
  8679. 01:32:56,750 --> 01:32:58,250
  8680. and it was very clear
  8681.  
  8682. 1840
  8683. 01:32:58,333 --> 01:33:00,000
  8684. that they were approaching this
  8685.  
  8686. 1841
  8687. 01:33:00,083 --> 01:33:02,417
  8688. as a deposition
  8689. in a legal proceeding.
  8690.  
  8691. 1842
  8692. 01:33:02,500 --> 01:33:05,417
  8693. If they were going to record,
  8694. then I was going to record as well.
  8695.  
  8696. 1843
  8697. 01:33:05,500 --> 01:33:07,959
  8698. Okay, so,
  8699. you know, we're here today
  8700.  
  8701. 1844
  8702. 01:33:08,041 --> 01:33:11,083
  8703. to do our part to help
  8704. educate you on what
  8705.  
  8706. 1845
  8707. 01:33:11,166 --> 01:33:12,750
  8708. I, at least, believe are some,
  8709.  
  8710. 1846
  8711. 01:33:12,834 --> 01:33:15,792
  8712. you know, false premises upon
  8713. which the questions are based.
  8714.  
  8715. 1847
  8716. 01:33:15,875 --> 01:33:19,208
  8717. They're very serious questions,
  8718. and there's some very serious
  8719.  
  8720. 1848
  8721. 01:33:19,291 --> 01:33:22,083
  8722. allegations in those questions.
  8723.  
  8724. 1849
  8725. 01:33:22,166 --> 01:33:24,083
  8726. I also turn to David Boies.
  8727.  
  8728. 1850
  8729. 01:33:24,166 --> 01:33:26,250
  8730. David attends all
  8731. the board meetings.
  8732.  
  8733. 1851
  8734. 01:33:26,333 --> 01:33:29,375
  8735. We wouldn't be here,
  8736. spend all this time and effort
  8737.  
  8738. 1852
  8739. 01:33:29,458 --> 01:33:31,375
  8740. if the, you know,
  8741.  
  8742. 1853
  8743. 01:33:31,458 --> 01:33:34,267
  8744. - we've got a technology...
  8745. - So, why don't we discuss it more freely?
  8746.  
  8747. 1854
  8748. 01:33:34,291 --> 01:33:36,625
  8749. Yeah, because it's trade secret!
  8750. That's why!
  8751.  
  8752. 1855
  8753. 01:33:36,709 --> 01:33:38,542
  8754. And because you
  8755. won't sign an NDA!
  8756.  
  8757. 1856
  8758. 01:33:38,625 --> 01:33:40,184
  8759. Is there really new technology?
  8760.  
  8761. 1857
  8762. 01:33:40,208 --> 01:33:41,417
  8763. That's the point.
  8764.  
  8765. 1858
  8766. 01:33:41,500 --> 01:33:43,041
  8767. Is it really new technology...
  8768.  
  8769. 1859
  8770. 01:33:43,125 --> 01:33:45,125
  8771. This something no one's
  8772. been able to do before.
  8773.  
  8774. 1860
  8775. 01:33:45,208 --> 01:33:47,375
  8776. Okay? Theranos is doing it.
  8777.  
  8778. 1861
  8779. 01:33:47,458 --> 01:33:51,500
  8780. And unless it's magic, it's a new technology.
  8781.  
  8782. 1862
  8783. 01:33:51,583 --> 01:33:53,875
  8784. I knew that most
  8785. of their blood tests
  8786.  
  8787. 1863
  8788. 01:33:53,959 --> 01:33:56,375
  8789. were run on
  8790. commercial analyzers
  8791.  
  8792. 1864
  8793. 01:33:56,458 --> 01:33:58,417
  8794. made by third
  8795. party companies.
  8796.  
  8797. 1865
  8798. 01:33:58,500 --> 01:34:01,375
  8799. And so I said,
  8800. how can this even fall
  8801.  
  8802. 1866
  8803. 01:34:01,458 --> 01:34:03,834
  8804. under the bucket
  8805. of trade secrets,
  8806.  
  8807. 1867
  8808. 01:34:03,917 --> 01:34:05,583
  8809. if these aren't even
  8810. Theranos machines.
  8811.  
  8812. 1868
  8813. 01:34:05,667 --> 01:34:08,417
  8814. Are you saying that
  8815. the trade secrets also covers
  8816.  
  8817. 1869
  8818. 01:34:08,500 --> 01:34:10,583
  8819. the way in which you
  8820. run a blood sample
  8821.  
  8822. 1870
  8823. 01:34:10,667 --> 01:34:12,000
  8824. on the Siemens Advia?
  8825.  
  8826. 1871
  8827. 01:34:12,083 --> 01:34:14,166
  8828. I think,
  8829. I don't know the answer to that,
  8830.  
  8831. 1872
  8832. 01:34:14,250 --> 01:34:16,917
  8833. but I can tell you that
  8834. it could or it could not.
  8835.  
  8836. 1873
  8837. 01:34:17,000 --> 01:34:19,680
  8838. It just feels like you want
  8839. us to give you the formula for Coke
  8840.  
  8841. 1874
  8842. 01:34:19,750 --> 01:34:21,685
  8843. in order to convince you that
  8844. it doesn't contain arsenic.
  8845.  
  8846. 1875
  8847. 01:34:21,709 --> 01:34:23,393
  8848. Nobody's asked for the formula for Coke.
  8849.  
  8850. 1876
  8851. 01:34:23,417 --> 01:34:25,166
  8852. We're looking for
  8853. a generic explanation.
  8854.  
  8855. 1877
  8856. 01:34:25,250 --> 01:34:27,083
  8857. You don't need to know how they work.
  8858.  
  8859. 1878
  8860. 01:34:30,917 --> 01:34:33,166
  8861. It sounds like the Wizard of Oz...
  8862.  
  8863. 1879
  8864. 01:34:33,291 --> 01:34:35,250
  8865. So, we went around in circles,
  8866.  
  8867. 1880
  8868. 01:34:35,333 --> 01:34:39,000
  8869. and the fact that
  8870. they were stonewalling
  8871.  
  8872. 1881
  8873. 01:34:39,083 --> 01:34:41,917
  8874. in such a strong way,
  8875.  
  8876. 1882
  8877. 01:34:42,000 --> 01:34:44,583
  8878. made me feel like
  8879. we were on the right track.
  8880.  
  8881. 1883
  8882. 01:34:44,667 --> 01:34:48,375
  8883. You know,
  8884. it seems apparent to us that certainly
  8885.  
  8886. 1884
  8887. 01:34:48,458 --> 01:34:51,458
  8888. one of your key sources is
  8889. a young man named Tyler Shultz
  8890.  
  8891. 1885
  8892. 01:34:51,542 --> 01:34:53,667
  8893. because the concerns
  8894. that you are raising
  8895.  
  8896. 1886
  8897. 01:34:53,750 --> 01:34:55,166
  8898. precisely are concerns
  8899.  
  8900. 1887
  8901. 01:34:55,250 --> 01:34:57,000
  8902. that he raised in
  8903. the very brief time
  8904.  
  8905. 1888
  8906. 01:34:57,083 --> 01:34:58,667
  8907. that he was at our company.
  8908.  
  8909. 1889
  8910. 01:34:58,750 --> 01:35:00,393
  8911. I don't know, I don't
  8912. remember his exact words,
  8913.  
  8914. 1890
  8915. 01:35:00,417 --> 01:35:02,417
  8916. but he said, "Well,
  8917. they know. They know."
  8918.  
  8919. 1891
  8920. 01:35:02,500 --> 01:35:04,917
  8921. So, I called my grandfather
  8922. and he said,
  8923.  
  8924. 1892
  8925. 01:35:05,000 --> 01:35:08,208
  8926. "Elizabeth tells me that
  8927. you've been speaking...
  8928.  
  8929. 1893
  8930. 01:35:08,291 --> 01:35:10,500
  8931. "that you've been giving
  8932. trade secrets away
  8933.  
  8934. 1894
  8935. 01:35:10,583 --> 01:35:12,208
  8936. "to the Wall Street Journal,
  8937.  
  8938. 1895
  8939. 01:35:12,291 --> 01:35:15,542
  8940. "and, you know, if this
  8941. story gets published,
  8942.  
  8943. 1896
  8944. 01:35:15,625 --> 01:35:19,208
  8945. "that essentially, your career
  8946. will be ruined, but...
  8947.  
  8948. 1897
  8949. 01:35:19,291 --> 01:35:21,667
  8950. "there's a one-page
  8951. confidentiality agreement
  8952.  
  8953. 1898
  8954. 01:35:21,750 --> 01:35:23,709
  8955. you can sign to just
  8956. make it all go away."
  8957.  
  8958. 1899
  8959. 01:35:23,792 --> 01:35:27,834
  8960. And so, I go to his house the next morning,
  8961. and he said, "Okay, well,
  8962.  
  8963. 1900
  8964. 01:35:27,917 --> 01:35:31,000
  8965. there are actually two Theranos
  8966. lawyers here right now."
  8967.  
  8968. 1901
  8969. 01:35:31,083 --> 01:35:32,625
  8970. I was...
  8971.  
  8972. 1902
  8973. 01:35:32,709 --> 01:35:35,333
  8974. extremely nervous about
  8975. what was going to happen,
  8976.  
  8977. 1903
  8978. 01:35:35,417 --> 01:35:37,250
  8979. very uncomfortable
  8980. with the whole situation.
  8981.  
  8982. 1904
  8983. 01:35:37,333 --> 01:35:39,500
  8984. They come in
  8985. and they give me
  8986.  
  8987. 1905
  8988. 01:35:39,583 --> 01:35:43,375
  8989. a notice to appear in court
  8990. in about 36 hours,
  8991.  
  8992. 1906
  8993. 01:35:43,458 --> 01:35:46,125
  8994. a temporary restraining order,
  8995.  
  8996. 1907
  8997. 01:35:46,208 --> 01:35:49,917
  8998. and a letter signed
  8999. by David Boies.
  9000.  
  9001. 1908
  9002. 01:35:50,000 --> 01:35:53,083
  9003. They really made me feel
  9004. like I was alone.
  9005.  
  9006. 1909
  9007. 01:35:53,166 --> 01:35:55,500
  9008. I was the underdog.
  9009. I was going to get crushed.
  9010.  
  9011. 1910
  9012. 01:35:55,583 --> 01:35:57,750
  9013. Good morning,
  9014. Mr. Secretary.
  9015.  
  9016. 1911
  9017. 01:35:57,834 --> 01:35:59,083
  9018. Good morning.
  9019.  
  9020. 1912
  9021. 01:35:59,166 --> 01:36:02,208
  9022. Do you recall a time when
  9023. Tyler came to your home,
  9024.  
  9025. 1913
  9026. 01:36:02,291 --> 01:36:03,500
  9027. and there were
  9028. some attorneys
  9029.  
  9030. 1914
  9031. 01:36:03,583 --> 01:36:05,250
  9032. from the Boies
  9033. Schiller firm there?
  9034.  
  9035. 1915
  9036. 01:36:05,333 --> 01:36:07,500
  9037. I wouldn't call them attorneys.
  9038.  
  9039. 1916
  9040. 01:36:07,583 --> 01:36:11,083
  9041. The man was some
  9042. sort of an animal.
  9043.  
  9044. 1917
  9045. 01:36:12,166 --> 01:36:14,250
  9046. Wild animal,
  9047.  
  9048. 1918
  9049. 01:36:14,333 --> 01:36:17,208
  9050. and he assaulted my grandson.
  9051.  
  9052. 1919
  9053. 01:36:17,291 --> 01:36:20,041
  9054. Was one of the dumbest
  9055. things I've ever observed.
  9056.  
  9057. 1920
  9058. 01:36:20,125 --> 01:36:22,959
  9059. When you say that
  9060. the man assaulted
  9061.  
  9062. 1921
  9063. 01:36:23,041 --> 01:36:24,250
  9064. your grandson,
  9065. can you be...
  9066.  
  9067. 1922
  9068. 01:36:24,333 --> 01:36:27,333
  9069. Verbally, verbally,
  9070. he just went after him.
  9071.  
  9072. 1923
  9073. 01:36:27,417 --> 01:36:28,792
  9074. If it hadn't ended when it did,
  9075.  
  9076. 1924
  9077. 01:36:28,875 --> 01:36:30,750
  9078. my wife was about
  9079. to pick an iron out,
  9080.  
  9081. 1925
  9082. 01:36:30,834 --> 01:36:33,959
  9083. hand iron right out of the
  9084. fireplace and clobber him.
  9085.  
  9086. 1926
  9087. 01:36:36,625 --> 01:36:38,750
  9088. My grandfather physically separates us,
  9089.  
  9090. 1927
  9091. 01:36:38,834 --> 01:36:40,959
  9092. and puts the Theranos
  9093. lawyers in the living room,
  9094.  
  9095. 1928
  9096. 01:36:41,041 --> 01:36:42,417
  9097. and I'm in the dining room,
  9098.  
  9099. 1929
  9100. 01:36:42,500 --> 01:36:44,625
  9101. and he's going between
  9102. the two rooms negotiating...
  9103.  
  9104. 1930
  9105. 01:36:44,709 --> 01:36:47,750
  9106. - Like a Secretary of State.
  9107. - Like a Secretary of State.
  9108.  
  9109. 1931
  9110. 01:36:47,834 --> 01:36:52,500
  9111. And my grandfather
  9112. seemed like he had grown...
  9113.  
  9114. 1932
  9115. 01:36:52,583 --> 01:36:55,917
  9116. that his allegiance to Elizabeth and
  9117. Theranos had grown even stronger.
  9118.  
  9119. 1933
  9120. 01:36:56,000 --> 01:36:58,375
  9121. Do you have
  9122. a high opinion of Ms. Holmes?
  9123.  
  9124. 1934
  9125. 01:36:58,458 --> 01:37:00,083
  9126. Yes.
  9127.  
  9128. 1935
  9129. 01:37:00,166 --> 01:37:02,792
  9130. Do you believe that
  9131. Ms. Holmes was truthful
  9132.  
  9133. 1936
  9134. 01:37:02,875 --> 01:37:05,208
  9135. with you in all of your
  9136. interactions with her?
  9137.  
  9138. 1937
  9139. 01:37:05,291 --> 01:37:06,792
  9140. Yes, I think so.
  9141.  
  9142. 1938
  9143. 01:37:06,875 --> 01:37:08,959
  9144. In any of her
  9145. interactions with you,
  9146.  
  9147. 1939
  9148. 01:37:09,041 --> 01:37:11,583
  9149. did Ms. Holmes
  9150. ever do anything
  9151.  
  9152. 1940
  9153. 01:37:11,667 --> 01:37:13,083
  9154. to give you
  9155. reason to believe
  9156.  
  9157. 1941
  9158. 01:37:13,166 --> 01:37:15,125
  9159. that she was trying
  9160. to deceive you?
  9161.  
  9162. 1942
  9163. 01:37:15,208 --> 01:37:16,333
  9164. No.
  9165.  
  9166. 1943
  9167. 01:37:18,125 --> 01:37:19,417
  9168. Yeah, that's when...
  9169.  
  9170. 1944
  9171. 01:37:19,500 --> 01:37:22,291
  9172. lawyers became a really
  9173. big part of my life.
  9174.  
  9175. 1945
  9176. 01:37:22,375 --> 01:37:24,458
  9177. They were threatening
  9178. to sue me for
  9179.  
  9180. 1946
  9181. 01:37:24,542 --> 01:37:26,458
  9182. violating my
  9183. nondisclosure agreement,
  9184.  
  9185. 1947
  9186. 01:37:26,542 --> 01:37:28,625
  9187. for giving up trade secrets.
  9188.  
  9189. 1948
  9190. 01:37:28,709 --> 01:37:31,667
  9191. Many times, I had written
  9192. notices to appear in court,
  9193.  
  9194. 1949
  9195. 01:37:31,750 --> 01:37:34,875
  9196. and at the last minute,
  9197. they would cancel it.
  9198.  
  9199. 1950
  9200. 01:37:35,834 --> 01:37:37,083
  9201. Overall, my parents
  9202.  
  9203. 1951
  9204. 01:37:37,166 --> 01:37:40,667
  9205. spent between
  9206. 400 and $500,000
  9207.  
  9208. 1952
  9209. 01:37:40,750 --> 01:37:42,709
  9210. in legal fees.
  9211.  
  9212. 1953
  9213. 01:37:42,792 --> 01:37:44,250
  9214. It was getting
  9215. to the point where
  9216.  
  9217. 1954
  9218. 01:37:44,333 --> 01:37:47,417
  9219. we needed to find money
  9220. somewhere, so they...
  9221.  
  9222. 1955
  9223. 01:37:47,500 --> 01:37:49,250
  9224. they said that they
  9225. would sell their house
  9226.  
  9227. 1956
  9228. 01:37:49,333 --> 01:37:51,000
  9229. to keep fighting
  9230. this legal battle.
  9231.  
  9232. 1957
  9233. 01:37:53,542 --> 01:37:55,834
  9234. So,
  9235. I ended up talking to a lawyer,
  9236.  
  9237. 1958
  9238. 01:37:55,917 --> 01:37:57,792
  9239. and they said, they're
  9240. trying to scare you.
  9241.  
  9242. 1959
  9243. 01:37:57,875 --> 01:38:01,208
  9244. And he said, one of the options that
  9245. you can do is you can whistle-blow.
  9246.  
  9247. 1960
  9248. 01:38:01,333 --> 01:38:04,458
  9249. You could be protected if you
  9250. talked to a regulatory agency.
  9251.  
  9252. 1961
  9253. 01:38:04,542 --> 01:38:09,125
  9254. And I'm like, what regulatory
  9255. agency? How do you that?
  9256.  
  9257. 1962
  9258. 01:38:09,208 --> 01:38:12,125
  9259. I've been nervous to send
  9260. or even write this letter.
  9261.  
  9262. 1963
  9263. 01:38:12,208 --> 01:38:16,166
  9264. Theranos takes confidentiality and
  9265. secrecy to an extreme level...
  9266.  
  9267. 1964
  9268. 01:38:16,250 --> 01:38:18,101
  9269. Mistakes always happen in a clinical lab,
  9270.  
  9271. 1965
  9272. 01:38:18,125 --> 01:38:20,875
  9273. but what went on in Theranos
  9274. was complete negligence
  9275.  
  9276. 1966
  9277. 01:38:20,959 --> 01:38:23,250
  9278. and honestly felt
  9279. criminal in many ways.
  9280.  
  9281. 1967
  9282. 01:38:23,333 --> 01:38:25,834
  9283. Upper level management
  9284. constantly made excuses
  9285.  
  9286. 1968
  9287. 01:38:25,917 --> 01:38:28,500
  9288. for their misgivings...
  9289. but they continue to...
  9290.  
  9291. 1969
  9292. 01:38:32,750 --> 01:38:36,583
  9293. I don't feel like it's sort
  9294. of a cold-blooded scam, right?
  9295.  
  9296. 1970
  9297. 01:38:37,417 --> 01:38:39,041
  9298. It just seems it started off
  9299.  
  9300. 1971
  9301. 01:38:39,125 --> 01:38:41,000
  9302. as something small,
  9303. like one lie,
  9304.  
  9305. 1972
  9306. 01:38:41,083 --> 01:38:44,333
  9307. and snowballed into this really
  9308.  
  9309. 1973
  9310. 01:38:44,417 --> 01:38:46,750
  9311. crazy situation.
  9312.  
  9313. 1974
  9314. 01:38:46,834 --> 01:38:48,333
  9315. ♪ Can't touch this ♪
  9316.  
  9317. 1975
  9318. 01:38:50,417 --> 01:38:52,083
  9319. ♪ Can't touch this ♪
  9320.  
  9321. 1976
  9322. 01:38:54,000 --> 01:38:55,417
  9323. ♪ Can't touch this ♪
  9324.  
  9325. 1977
  9326. 01:38:55,500 --> 01:38:57,542
  9327. ♪ Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh ♪
  9328.  
  9329. 1978
  9330. 01:38:57,625 --> 01:38:58,792
  9331. ♪ Can't touch this ♪
  9332.  
  9333. 1979
  9334. 01:38:58,875 --> 01:39:00,083
  9335. ♪ Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh ♪
  9336.  
  9337. 1980
  9338. 01:39:00,166 --> 01:39:02,166
  9339. ♪ My, my, my music ♪
  9340.  
  9341. 1981
  9342. 01:39:02,250 --> 01:39:05,125
  9343. ♪ Keeps me so hard,
  9344. makes me say oh my Lord ♪
  9345.  
  9346. 1982
  9347. 01:39:05,208 --> 01:39:06,875
  9348. ♪ Thank you for blessing me ♪
  9349.  
  9350. 1983
  9351. 01:39:06,959 --> 01:39:08,875
  9352. ♪ With a mind to rhyme
  9353. and two hype feet ♪
  9354.  
  9355. 1984
  9356. 01:39:08,959 --> 01:39:10,667
  9357. ♪ That's good when
  9358. you know you're down ♪
  9359.  
  9360. 1985
  9361. 01:39:10,750 --> 01:39:12,625
  9362. ♪ A super dope homeboy
  9363. from the Oaktown ♪
  9364.  
  9365. 1986
  9366. 01:39:12,709 --> 01:39:15,041
  9367. So, what do you guys think
  9368. about the FDA clearance?
  9369.  
  9370. 1987
  9371. 01:39:19,125 --> 01:39:20,875
  9372. ♪ Can't touch this ♪
  9373.  
  9374. 1988
  9375. 01:39:20,959 --> 01:39:24,041
  9376. It was around the 4th of July of 2015.
  9377.  
  9378. 1989
  9379. 01:39:24,125 --> 01:39:26,375
  9380. It was euphoria at the company.
  9381.  
  9382. 1990
  9383. 01:39:26,458 --> 01:39:29,333
  9384. It was, you know...
  9385.  
  9386. 1991
  9387. 01:39:29,417 --> 01:39:30,625
  9388. ♪ Bust the funky lyrics ♪
  9389.  
  9390. 1992
  9391. 01:39:30,709 --> 01:39:32,208
  9392. ♪ Fresh new kicks and pants ♪
  9393.  
  9394. 1993
  9395. 01:39:32,291 --> 01:39:34,226
  9396. ♪ You got it like that,
  9397. now you know you wanna dance ♪
  9398.  
  9399. 1994
  9400. 01:39:34,250 --> 01:39:35,959
  9401. This is a very
  9402. meaningful milestone
  9403.  
  9404. 1995
  9405. 01:39:36,041 --> 01:39:37,417
  9406. for both Elizabeth and Sunny.
  9407.  
  9408. 1996
  9409. 01:39:37,500 --> 01:39:39,875
  9410. It felt like a great
  9411. victory at the time.
  9412.  
  9413. 1997
  9414. 01:39:42,792 --> 01:39:46,083
  9415. It was a big
  9416. celebration for a little victory.
  9417.  
  9418. 1998
  9419. 01:39:46,166 --> 01:39:47,917
  9420. The FDA had finally approved
  9421.  
  9422. 1999
  9423. 01:39:48,000 --> 01:39:50,333
  9424. one rarely used test for herpes
  9425.  
  9426. 2000
  9427. 01:39:50,417 --> 01:39:53,000
  9428. to be run on
  9429. an Edison prototype.
  9430.  
  9431. 2001
  9432. 01:39:53,083 --> 01:39:54,959
  9433. That was too little
  9434. too late for Walgreens,
  9435.  
  9436. 2002
  9437. 01:39:55,041 --> 01:39:57,917
  9438. which put the brakes on
  9439. opening new Wellness Centers.
  9440.  
  9441. 2003
  9442. 01:39:58,000 --> 01:39:59,583
  9443. And while Theranos
  9444. had boasted revenues
  9445.  
  9446. 2004
  9447. 01:39:59,667 --> 01:40:02,709
  9448. of more than a billion
  9449. dollars for 2015,
  9450.  
  9451. 2005
  9452. 01:40:02,792 --> 01:40:06,208
  9453. the actual cash in the door was
  9454. only a few hundred thousand.
  9455.  
  9456. 2006
  9457. 01:40:07,709 --> 01:40:10,500
  9458. But Elizabeth and Sunny
  9459. were not backing down.
  9460.  
  9461. 2007
  9462. 01:40:10,583 --> 01:40:13,208
  9463. We are going to send a
  9464. message to Quest Diagnostics.
  9465.  
  9466. 2008
  9467. 01:40:13,291 --> 01:40:16,083
  9468. Remember, these are
  9469. the guys who are after us,
  9470.  
  9471. 2009
  9472. 01:40:16,166 --> 01:40:18,326
  9473. and they're attacking the work
  9474. that you guys are doing.
  9475.  
  9476. 2010
  9477. 01:40:18,375 --> 01:40:20,291
  9478. - Are you ready?
  9479. - Yeah!
  9480.  
  9481. 2011
  9482. 01:40:20,375 --> 01:40:22,291
  9483. Okay. One,
  9484.  
  9485. 2012
  9486. 01:40:22,375 --> 01:40:23,875
  9487. two, three.
  9488.  
  9489. 2013
  9490. 01:40:23,959 --> 01:40:25,333
  9491. Fuck you!
  9492.  
  9493. 2014
  9494. 01:40:50,083 --> 01:40:52,959
  9495. I saw the alert when I got up in the morning,
  9496.  
  9497. 2015
  9498. 01:40:53,041 --> 01:40:55,458
  9499. and I read it by my bed.
  9500.  
  9501. 2016
  9502. 01:40:55,542 --> 01:40:58,667
  9503. It had this really
  9504. understated headline.
  9505.  
  9506. 2017
  9507. 01:41:00,583 --> 01:41:03,959
  9508. But the contents of the article
  9509. were just devastating.
  9510.  
  9511. 2018
  9512. 01:41:13,792 --> 01:41:17,583
  9513. When I got to work,
  9514. I read it a couple more times.
  9515.  
  9516. 2019
  9517. 01:41:18,041 --> 01:41:21,667
  9518. Suddenly, all of the trade
  9519. secret stuff made sense.
  9520.  
  9521. 2020
  9522. 01:41:21,750 --> 01:41:24,333
  9523. Oh, I see. It's
  9524. not a trade secret.
  9525.  
  9526. 2021
  9527. 01:41:24,417 --> 01:41:26,000
  9528. Um...
  9529.  
  9530. 2022
  9531. 01:41:26,083 --> 01:41:28,792
  9532. It's a different kind
  9533. of secret, and, um...
  9534.  
  9535. 2023
  9536. 01:41:36,542 --> 01:41:40,375
  9537. I did not know that Siemens were being used
  9538.  
  9539. 2024
  9540. 01:41:40,458 --> 01:41:43,208
  9541. until after the article hit.
  9542.  
  9543. 2025
  9544. 01:41:43,291 --> 01:41:45,375
  9545. And then
  9546. that kind of explains
  9547.  
  9548. 2026
  9549. 01:41:45,458 --> 01:41:47,458
  9550. why we were doing
  9551. venipuncture,
  9552.  
  9553. 2027
  9554. 01:41:47,542 --> 01:41:50,625
  9555. as opposed to the
  9556. fingerstick collection.
  9557.  
  9558. 2028
  9559. 01:41:50,709 --> 01:41:55,083
  9560. I then started...
  9561. revamping my résumé.
  9562.  
  9563. 2029
  9564. 01:41:57,083 --> 01:41:58,417
  9565. I'm sorry, but I did!
  9566.  
  9567. 2030
  9568. 01:42:04,250 --> 01:42:06,208
  9569. I was lucky when the Wall Street Journal
  9570.  
  9571. 2031
  9572. 01:42:06,291 --> 01:42:08,542
  9573. actually ended up
  9574. publishing their article
  9575.  
  9576. 2032
  9577. 01:42:08,625 --> 01:42:09,875
  9578. because once that happened,
  9579.  
  9580. 2033
  9581. 01:42:09,959 --> 01:42:12,208
  9582. Theranos' efforts
  9583. were focused elsewhere.
  9584.  
  9585. 2034
  9586. 01:42:12,333 --> 01:42:14,291
  9587. We never went to court.
  9588. We never...
  9589.  
  9590. 2035
  9591. 01:42:14,375 --> 01:42:16,709
  9592. had any sort of settlement.
  9593. It just kind of died.
  9594.  
  9595. 2036
  9596. 01:42:19,041 --> 01:42:21,667
  9597. The fate and future
  9598. of the company was at stake.
  9599.  
  9600. 2037
  9601. 01:42:22,875 --> 01:42:26,083
  9602. So, we gathered
  9603. in our cafeteria.
  9604.  
  9605. 2038
  9606. 01:42:26,166 --> 01:42:30,250
  9607. Elizabeth and Sunny spoke
  9608. to what was happening,
  9609.  
  9610. 2039
  9611. 01:42:30,333 --> 01:42:32,291
  9612. and that these
  9613. allegations are not true.
  9614.  
  9615. 2040
  9616. 01:42:33,375 --> 01:42:35,667
  9617. And then, Elizabeth
  9618. made a comment about
  9619.  
  9620. 2041
  9621. 01:42:35,750 --> 01:42:39,041
  9622. taking on the Wall Street
  9623. Journal as a fight.
  9624.  
  9625. 2042
  9626. 01:42:45,208 --> 01:42:46,333
  9627. I knew immediately
  9628.  
  9629. 2043
  9630. 01:42:46,417 --> 01:42:48,500
  9631. when I woke up
  9632. that day that the article
  9633.  
  9634. 2044
  9635. 01:42:48,583 --> 01:42:51,250
  9636. was having impact
  9637. because e-mails from readers
  9638.  
  9639. 2045
  9640. 01:42:51,375 --> 01:42:53,709
  9641. and from colleagues were
  9642. flowing in to my inbox.
  9643.  
  9644. 2046
  9645. 01:42:53,792 --> 01:42:55,917
  9646. And I was also getting asked
  9647.  
  9648. 2047
  9649. 01:42:56,000 --> 01:42:57,959
  9650. to do various media interviews.
  9651.  
  9652. 2048
  9653. 01:42:58,041 --> 01:42:59,601
  9654. New Wall Street Journal story
  9655.  
  9656. 2049
  9657. 01:42:59,667 --> 01:43:01,750
  9658. by John Carreyrou.
  9659. Thanks for joining us, John...
  9660.  
  9661. 2050
  9662. 01:43:01,834 --> 01:43:04,166
  9663. The article was a wake-up call
  9664.  
  9665. 2051
  9666. 01:43:04,250 --> 01:43:06,333
  9667. for Silicon Valley.
  9668.  
  9669. 2052
  9670. 01:43:06,417 --> 01:43:08,875
  9671. This sort of gold rush
  9672. had been going on.
  9673.  
  9674. 2053
  9675. 01:43:08,959 --> 01:43:10,959
  9676. These unicorns
  9677. had been created.
  9678.  
  9679. 2054
  9680. 01:43:11,041 --> 01:43:14,625
  9681. Companies that have valuations
  9682. of more than a billion dollars.
  9683.  
  9684. 2055
  9685. 01:43:14,709 --> 01:43:16,625
  9686. They were staying
  9687. private much longer
  9688.  
  9689. 2056
  9690. 01:43:16,709 --> 01:43:20,250
  9691. than start-ups had in the
  9692. dot-com boom of the late '90s.
  9693.  
  9694. 2057
  9695. 01:43:20,375 --> 01:43:23,166
  9696. And as a result, they were
  9697. able to be less transparent
  9698.  
  9699. 2058
  9700. 01:43:23,250 --> 01:43:25,083
  9701. than companies
  9702. that have to report
  9703.  
  9704. 2059
  9705. 01:43:25,208 --> 01:43:26,917
  9706. to investors every quarter.
  9707.  
  9708. 2060
  9709. 01:43:27,000 --> 01:43:29,750
  9710. And I think suddenly there was
  9711. a realization in Silicon Valley
  9712.  
  9713. 2061
  9714. 01:43:29,834 --> 01:43:33,750
  9715. that this has allowed
  9716. fraud to thrive.
  9717.  
  9718. 2062
  9719. 01:43:38,625 --> 01:43:40,625
  9720. Obviously,
  9721. when I called Theranos
  9722.  
  9723. 2063
  9724. 01:43:40,750 --> 01:43:42,470
  9725. and tried to speak
  9726. to Elizabeth and was told
  9727.  
  9728. 2064
  9729. 01:43:42,542 --> 01:43:45,792
  9730. that she was going to be
  9731. unavailable all day.
  9732.  
  9733. 2065
  9734. 01:43:45,917 --> 01:43:50,375
  9735. She was being inducted into the Harvard
  9736. Medical School Board of Fellows.
  9737.  
  9738. 2066
  9739. 01:43:52,458 --> 01:43:56,166
  9740. And, um...
  9741. I was just stunned.
  9742.  
  9743. 2067
  9744. 01:43:56,250 --> 01:43:57,959
  9745. I was thinking in my mind,
  9746.  
  9747. 2068
  9748. 01:43:58,041 --> 01:44:00,083
  9749. the Wall Street Journal
  9750. has just said...
  9751.  
  9752. 2069
  9753. 01:44:01,208 --> 01:44:03,792
  9754. that you're a fraud, and that
  9755. you're company is a fraud,
  9756.  
  9757. 2070
  9758. 01:44:03,917 --> 01:44:07,583
  9759. and the company I put on the
  9760. cover of a magazine is a fraud,
  9761.  
  9762. 2071
  9763. 01:44:08,500 --> 01:44:10,500
  9764. and you're going to spend...
  9765.  
  9766. 2072
  9767. 01:44:13,750 --> 01:44:15,417
  9768. the whole day...
  9769.  
  9770. 2073
  9771. 01:44:18,333 --> 01:44:21,250
  9772. hiding out at this, uh...
  9773.  
  9774. 2074
  9775. 01:44:24,041 --> 01:44:25,625
  9776. at this, uh...
  9777.  
  9778. 2075
  9779. 01:44:27,917 --> 01:44:30,542
  9780. honorary horseshit, you know?
  9781.  
  9782. 2076
  9783. 01:44:30,625 --> 01:44:32,500
  9784. You need to get out here,
  9785.  
  9786. 2077
  9787. 01:44:32,583 --> 01:44:34,667
  9788. and go through this article,
  9789.  
  9790. 2078
  9791. 01:44:34,750 --> 01:44:37,333
  9792. paragraph by paragraph,
  9793.  
  9794. 2079
  9795. 01:44:37,417 --> 01:44:41,208
  9796. explaining what the fuck's
  9797. going on at your company.
  9798.  
  9799. 2080
  9800. 01:44:44,417 --> 01:44:45,685
  9801. Your article was pretty brutal,
  9802.  
  9803. 2081
  9804. 01:44:45,709 --> 01:44:47,226
  9805. but here on Mad Money,
  9806. we know something.
  9807.  
  9808. 2082
  9809. 01:44:47,250 --> 01:44:49,959
  9810. We know that there are two
  9811. sides to every single story.
  9812.  
  9813. 2083
  9814. 01:44:50,041 --> 01:44:52,458
  9815. Coming to us this
  9816. afternoon from Boston,
  9817.  
  9818. 2084
  9819. 01:44:52,542 --> 01:44:54,434
  9820. where she's attending a meeting
  9821. of the Board of Fellows
  9822.  
  9823. 2085
  9824. 01:44:54,458 --> 01:44:57,291
  9825. at Harvard Medical School,
  9826. to give her a chance to answer
  9827.  
  9828. 2086
  9829. 01:44:57,375 --> 01:44:59,083
  9830. the charges raised
  9831. in the article.
  9832.  
  9833. 2087
  9834. 01:44:59,166 --> 01:45:01,750
  9835. Ms. Holmes, welcome
  9836. back to Mad Money.
  9837.  
  9838. 2088
  9839. 01:45:01,834 --> 01:45:03,250
  9840. It's great to be
  9841. here, thank you.
  9842.  
  9843. 2089
  9844. 01:45:03,333 --> 01:45:06,083
  9845. This is what happens when
  9846. you work to change things,
  9847.  
  9848. 2090
  9849. 01:45:06,166 --> 01:45:09,375
  9850. and first they think you're
  9851. crazy, then they fight you.
  9852.  
  9853. 2091
  9854. 01:45:09,458 --> 01:45:11,709
  9855. And then, all of a sudden,
  9856. you change the world.
  9857.  
  9858. 2092
  9859. 01:45:11,792 --> 01:45:14,083
  9860. And, um, I have to say,
  9861.  
  9862. 2093
  9863. 01:45:14,166 --> 01:45:16,542
  9864. I personally was
  9865. shocked to see that
  9866.  
  9867. 2094
  9868. 01:45:16,625 --> 01:45:18,875
  9869. the Journal would publish
  9870. something like this.
  9871.  
  9872. 2095
  9873. 01:45:18,959 --> 01:45:21,458
  9874. Every single one
  9875. of the sources that
  9876.  
  9877. 2096
  9878. 01:45:21,542 --> 01:45:24,458
  9879. we spoke with who the Journal
  9880. had contacted told us
  9881.  
  9882. 2097
  9883. 01:45:24,542 --> 01:45:27,333
  9884. that the statements that were
  9885. being attributed to them
  9886.  
  9887. 2098
  9888. 01:45:27,417 --> 01:45:29,333
  9889. were false or
  9890. misleading...
  9891.  
  9892. 2099
  9893. 01:45:29,417 --> 01:45:34,375
  9894. She decided to come out
  9895. and address my story and rebut it.
  9896.  
  9897. 2100
  9898. 01:45:34,458 --> 01:45:37,709
  9899. Theranos issued a press release
  9900. calling my reporting false,
  9901.  
  9902. 2101
  9903. 01:45:37,792 --> 01:45:40,500
  9904. and they were threatening
  9905. us with litigation.
  9906.  
  9907. 2102
  9908. 01:45:40,583 --> 01:45:43,125
  9909. The journalism here has been so bad,
  9910.  
  9911. 2103
  9912. 01:45:43,208 --> 01:45:44,750
  9913. they deserve to be sued,
  9914.  
  9915. 2104
  9916. 01:45:44,834 --> 01:45:47,917
  9917. but lawsuits
  9918. rarely resolve issues.
  9919.  
  9920. 2105
  9921. 01:45:48,000 --> 01:45:50,542
  9922. What's going to resolve
  9923. this issue is the science,
  9924.  
  9925. 2106
  9926. 01:45:50,625 --> 01:45:52,125
  9927. the marketplace.
  9928.  
  9929. 2107
  9930. 01:45:52,208 --> 01:45:55,500
  9931. Um, the company has been
  9932. successful in Arizona.
  9933.  
  9934. 2108
  9935. 01:45:56,375 --> 01:45:58,125
  9936. Doctors are happy,
  9937. patients are happy...
  9938.  
  9939. 2109
  9940. 01:45:58,208 --> 01:46:00,917
  9941. Doctors and patients were not happy.
  9942.  
  9943. 2110
  9944. 01:46:01,000 --> 01:46:03,500
  9945. The FDA was so worried
  9946. about patient safety
  9947.  
  9948. 2111
  9949. 01:46:03,583 --> 01:46:05,750
  9950. that it banned the use
  9951. of the nanotainer,
  9952.  
  9953. 2112
  9954. 01:46:05,834 --> 01:46:09,417
  9955. putting an end to all
  9956. fingerstick tests at Walgreens.
  9957.  
  9958. 2113
  9959. 01:46:09,500 --> 01:46:12,875
  9960. CMS conducted a surprise
  9961. inspection of the Theranos lab,
  9962.  
  9963. 2114
  9964. 01:46:12,959 --> 01:46:15,959
  9965. and found the blood
  9966. testing so inaccurate,
  9967.  
  9968. 2115
  9969. 01:46:16,041 --> 01:46:18,542
  9970. that it posed a threat
  9971. to patient safety,
  9972.  
  9973. 2116
  9974. 01:46:18,625 --> 01:46:20,583
  9975. likely to cause serious injury,
  9976.  
  9977. 2117
  9978. 01:46:20,667 --> 01:46:22,500
  9979. harm, or death.
  9980.  
  9981. 2118
  9982. 01:46:22,583 --> 01:46:26,291
  9983. CMS revoked the lab's
  9984. license to operate.
  9985.  
  9986. 2119
  9987. 01:46:26,375 --> 01:46:28,625
  9988. The letter that
  9989. prompted CMS to act
  9990.  
  9991. 2120
  9992. 01:46:28,709 --> 01:46:31,000
  9993. came from Erika Cheung.
  9994.  
  9995. 2121
  9996. 01:46:32,041 --> 01:46:33,393
  9997. You know, in the end for me,
  9998.  
  9999. 2122
  10000. 01:46:33,417 --> 01:46:35,583
  10001. it was a bit
  10002. of a mixed feeling.
  10003.  
  10004. 2123
  10005. 01:46:35,667 --> 01:46:38,667
  10006. I was really excited because
  10007. the truth finally got out.
  10008.  
  10009. 2124
  10010. 01:46:38,750 --> 01:46:42,208
  10011. But then also, a bit of
  10012. sadness in the fact that, um...
  10013.  
  10014. 2125
  10015. 01:46:42,291 --> 01:46:44,625
  10016. you know, we all really wanted
  10017. that project to succeed.
  10018.  
  10019. 2126
  10020. 01:46:44,709 --> 01:46:48,083
  10021. Have you been able to win your argument
  10022.  
  10023. 2127
  10024. 01:46:48,166 --> 01:46:50,417
  10025. with your grandfather
  10026. in terms of persuading him
  10027.  
  10028. 2128
  10029. 01:46:50,500 --> 01:46:52,291
  10030. of the problems
  10031. at Theranos?
  10032.  
  10033. 2129
  10034. 01:46:52,375 --> 01:46:56,041
  10035. He said that he had no idea
  10036. how much deception there was,
  10037.  
  10038. 2130
  10039. 01:46:56,125 --> 01:46:58,667
  10040. and that he was proud of me.
  10041.  
  10042. 2131
  10043. 01:46:58,750 --> 01:47:00,166
  10044. Yeah.
  10045.  
  10046. 2132
  10047. 01:47:00,250 --> 01:47:04,917
  10048. Yeah, I'm glad he finally
  10049. really gets it.
  10050.  
  10051. 2133
  10052. 01:47:08,500 --> 01:47:11,250
  10053. There was a Journal technology conference
  10054.  
  10055. 2134
  10056. 01:47:11,333 --> 01:47:15,291
  10057. taking place in Laguna Beach
  10058. in late October 2015,
  10059.  
  10060. 2135
  10061. 01:47:15,375 --> 01:47:18,333
  10062. and it so happened
  10063. that more than a year prior
  10064.  
  10065. 2136
  10066. 01:47:18,417 --> 01:47:21,500
  10067. it had lined up Elizabeth
  10068. Holmes as one of the speakers.
  10069.  
  10070. 2137
  10071. 01:47:21,583 --> 01:47:24,834
  10072. Could you get specific
  10073. on the key points today...
  10074.  
  10075. 2138
  10076. 01:47:24,959 --> 01:47:27,250
  10077. And not only did she come,
  10078. she came swinging.
  10079.  
  10080. 2139
  10081. 01:47:27,333 --> 01:47:30,208
  10082. The tests that are offered
  10083. are of the highest quality.
  10084.  
  10085. 2140
  10086. 01:47:30,250 --> 01:47:33,709
  10087. We know what we're doing,
  10088. and we're very proud of it.
  10089.  
  10090. 2141
  10091. 01:47:33,792 --> 01:47:37,000
  10092. Were there situations
  10093. in which you, uh,
  10094.  
  10095. 2142
  10096. 01:47:37,125 --> 01:47:39,291
  10097. had to dilute
  10098. blood samples?
  10099.  
  10100. 2143
  10101. 01:47:39,375 --> 01:47:40,959
  10102. What the Journal described
  10103.  
  10104. 2144
  10105. 01:47:41,000 --> 01:47:42,667
  10106. that we take
  10107. a sample, dilute it,
  10108.  
  10109. 2145
  10110. 01:47:42,792 --> 01:47:44,667
  10111. and put it on
  10112. a commercial analyzer
  10113.  
  10114. 2146
  10115. 01:47:44,792 --> 01:47:47,291
  10116. is inaccurate,
  10117. and that's not what we do.
  10118.  
  10119. 2147
  10120. 01:47:47,375 --> 01:47:49,101
  10121. I watched it on the Journal website,
  10122.  
  10123. 2148
  10124. 01:47:49,125 --> 01:47:51,959
  10125. and I couldn't believe
  10126. what she just said.
  10127.  
  10128. 2149
  10129. 01:47:52,000 --> 01:47:55,083
  10130. There was no question
  10131. that that was a huge lie
  10132.  
  10133. 2150
  10134. 01:47:55,125 --> 01:47:56,875
  10135. because they were
  10136. absolutely doing it.
  10137.  
  10138. 2151
  10139. 01:47:56,959 --> 01:47:59,250
  10140. We don't actually
  10141. use the technology
  10142.  
  10143. 2152
  10144. 01:47:59,333 --> 01:48:01,875
  10145. that's being referred
  10146. to as Edison for anything,
  10147.  
  10148. 2153
  10149. 01:48:01,959 --> 01:48:04,250
  10150. and haven't for
  10151. a few years now.
  10152.  
  10153. 2154
  10154. 01:48:04,291 --> 01:48:08,583
  10155. When we do fingerstick,
  10156. every time, we use technology
  10157.  
  10158. 2155
  10159. 01:48:08,667 --> 01:48:10,959
  10160. that is not
  10161. commercially available.
  10162.  
  10163. 2156
  10164. 01:48:11,083 --> 01:48:12,583
  10165. We have never used
  10166.  
  10167. 2157
  10168. 01:48:12,667 --> 01:48:15,083
  10169. commercially available
  10170. lab equipment
  10171.  
  10172. 2158
  10173. 01:48:15,125 --> 01:48:16,709
  10174. for fingerstick-based tests.
  10175.  
  10176. 2159
  10177. 01:48:16,792 --> 01:48:18,542
  10178. Every fingerstick test...
  10179.  
  10180. 2160
  10181. 01:48:18,625 --> 01:48:21,458
  10182. I had underestimated her willingness
  10183.  
  10184. 2161
  10185. 01:48:21,542 --> 01:48:25,709
  10186. to bald-face lie
  10187. in public, on our turf.
  10188.  
  10189. 2162
  10190. 01:48:25,792 --> 01:48:28,291
  10191. I guess what I really want
  10192. to know is, do you feel now,
  10193.  
  10194. 2163
  10195. 01:48:28,375 --> 01:48:32,458
  10196. in hindsight, that maybe you went
  10197. market a little too quickly?
  10198.  
  10199. 2164
  10200. 01:48:32,542 --> 01:48:34,302
  10201. Did you feel pressured
  10202. to do that in any way?
  10203.  
  10204. 2165
  10205. 01:48:34,375 --> 01:48:36,250
  10206. We're the exact same company.
  10207.  
  10208. 2166
  10209. 01:48:36,375 --> 01:48:37,959
  10210. Nothing has changed.
  10211.  
  10212. 2167
  10213. 01:48:38,041 --> 01:48:40,834
  10214. We're working every single day
  10215. to try to get these tests
  10216.  
  10217. 2168
  10218. 01:48:40,917 --> 01:48:43,125
  10219. and systems to meet
  10220. the highest quality standards.
  10221.  
  10222. 2169
  10223. 01:48:55,542 --> 01:48:58,250
  10224. Couple of months after
  10225. John Carreyrou's article,
  10226.  
  10227. 2170
  10228. 01:48:58,291 --> 01:49:01,750
  10229. I wrote a new story.
  10230.  
  10231. 2171
  10232. 01:49:01,834 --> 01:49:06,458
  10233. It was both a correction
  10234. and a mea culpa.
  10235.  
  10236. 2172
  10237. 01:49:06,542 --> 01:49:10,125
  10238. And I said that Elizabeth
  10239. had intentionally misled me.
  10240.  
  10241. 2173
  10242. 01:49:12,417 --> 01:49:14,500
  10243. After I published the piece,
  10244.  
  10245. 2174
  10246. 01:49:14,583 --> 01:49:16,125
  10247. Elizabeth called me,
  10248.  
  10249. 2175
  10250. 01:49:16,208 --> 01:49:19,750
  10251. and there was
  10252. a long conversation.
  10253.  
  10254. 2176
  10255. 01:49:19,834 --> 01:49:22,291
  10256. She was not apologetic.
  10257. She said,
  10258.  
  10259. 2177
  10260. 01:49:22,417 --> 01:49:25,250
  10261. "I never would intentionally
  10262. try to mislead you.
  10263.  
  10264. 2178
  10265. 01:49:25,291 --> 01:49:27,166
  10266. Why would we do that?"
  10267.  
  10268. 2179
  10269. 01:49:27,250 --> 01:49:30,834
  10270. She was trying to persuade
  10271. me to take out that sentence.
  10272.  
  10273. 2180
  10274. 01:49:30,917 --> 01:49:32,250
  10275. She said something like,
  10276.  
  10277. 2181
  10278. 01:49:32,291 --> 01:49:34,500
  10279. "If you're not going to take
  10280. that language out,
  10281.  
  10282. 2182
  10283. 01:49:34,583 --> 01:49:38,166
  10284. we're going to have to do
  10285. something about that language,"
  10286.  
  10287. 2183
  10288. 01:49:38,250 --> 01:49:39,667
  10289. which was a little menacing,
  10290.  
  10291. 2184
  10292. 01:49:39,750 --> 01:49:43,959
  10293. but all that they then did
  10294. was they wrote a letter.
  10295.  
  10296. 2185
  10297. 01:49:44,041 --> 01:49:45,959
  10298. Toward the end,
  10299. there was a weird paragraph,
  10300.  
  10301. 2186
  10302. 01:49:46,041 --> 01:49:48,417
  10303. something to the effect that
  10304. Elizabeth didn't even realize
  10305.  
  10306. 2187
  10307. 01:49:48,500 --> 01:49:51,709
  10308. that Fortune was doing
  10309. a feature profile,
  10310.  
  10311. 2188
  10312. 01:49:51,792 --> 01:49:53,542
  10313. let alone a cover.
  10314.  
  10315. 2189
  10316. 01:49:53,625 --> 01:49:55,750
  10317. And it was so, such a...
  10318.  
  10319. 2190
  10320. 01:49:56,709 --> 01:49:59,291
  10321. bizarre thing 'cause...
  10322.  
  10323. 2191
  10324. 01:50:00,458 --> 01:50:03,083
  10325. I was out there four days and...
  10326.  
  10327. 2192
  10328. 01:50:03,583 --> 01:50:06,041
  10329. I had called all these
  10330. people at her behest.
  10331.  
  10332. 2193
  10333. 01:50:06,125 --> 01:50:07,583
  10334. You know, seven directors,
  10335.  
  10336. 2194
  10337. 01:50:07,667 --> 01:50:10,542
  10338. the head of UCSF Medical Center,
  10339.  
  10340. 2195
  10341. 01:50:10,625 --> 01:50:12,625
  10342. the head of Blue Cross
  10343. Blue Shield.
  10344.  
  10345. 2196
  10346. 01:50:12,709 --> 01:50:16,083
  10347. I spent an hour and a half with
  10348. her parents. I met her brother.
  10349.  
  10350. 2197
  10351. 01:50:16,166 --> 01:50:19,417
  10352. I asked her about the letter
  10353. she wrote when she was nine.
  10354.  
  10355. 2198
  10356. 01:50:19,500 --> 01:50:22,208
  10357. I asked her about the book
  10358. her father gave her
  10359.  
  10360. 2199
  10361. 01:50:22,291 --> 01:50:24,834
  10362. when she went away
  10363. to school, which was
  10364.  
  10365. 2200
  10366. 01:50:24,917 --> 01:50:27,250
  10367. Meditations
  10368. by Marcus Aurelius.
  10369.  
  10370. 2201
  10371. 01:50:27,333 --> 01:50:29,417
  10372. And then there was
  10373. the photo shoot!
  10374.  
  10375. 2202
  10376. 01:50:29,500 --> 01:50:31,375
  10377. It was a big-name photographer,
  10378.  
  10379. 2203
  10380. 01:50:31,458 --> 01:50:34,500
  10381. and his assistants,
  10382. and the lighting equipment,
  10383.  
  10384. 2204
  10385. 01:50:34,583 --> 01:50:37,041
  10386. and taking
  10387. a couple hundred photos
  10388.  
  10389. 2205
  10390. 01:50:37,125 --> 01:50:40,250
  10391. in different locations
  10392. and different poses.
  10393.  
  10394. 2206
  10395. 01:50:40,333 --> 01:50:42,709
  10396. That was a clue, you know?
  10397.  
  10398. 2207
  10399. 01:50:46,333 --> 01:50:49,333
  10400. This was real lunacy.
  10401.  
  10402. 2208
  10403. 01:50:50,834 --> 01:50:53,291
  10404. I realized that there was
  10405. something wrong with her mind,
  10406.  
  10407. 2209
  10408. 01:50:53,375 --> 01:50:58,834
  10409. that, um, you know, I don't know
  10410. if she's lying or if she's...
  10411.  
  10412. 2210
  10413. 01:50:59,834 --> 01:51:03,583
  10414. uh, there's an unconscious, um,
  10415.  
  10416. 2211
  10417. 01:51:03,667 --> 01:51:05,583
  10418. reconstruct... self-protective,
  10419.  
  10420. 2212
  10421. 01:51:05,667 --> 01:51:08,041
  10422. reconstruction of reality
  10423. that's going on.
  10424.  
  10425. 2213
  10426. 01:51:08,125 --> 01:51:10,083
  10427. But what is coming
  10428. out of her mouth
  10429.  
  10430. 2214
  10431. 01:51:10,166 --> 01:51:12,750
  10432. is not mapping onto reality
  10433.  
  10434. 2215
  10435. 01:51:12,834 --> 01:51:14,792
  10436. as you or I know it, you know?
  10437.  
  10438. 2216
  10439. 01:51:20,917 --> 01:51:22,750
  10440. I wish I could say to her,
  10441.  
  10442. 2217
  10443. 01:51:22,834 --> 01:51:24,559
  10444. "Elizabeth, I'm going to give
  10445. you a truth serum,
  10446.  
  10447. 2218
  10448. 01:51:24,583 --> 01:51:26,166
  10449. "and you're going to tell me
  10450.  
  10451. 2219
  10452. 01:51:26,250 --> 01:51:29,709
  10453. what was going through
  10454. your mind at that time."
  10455.  
  10456. 2220
  10457. 01:51:30,208 --> 01:51:32,875
  10458. And the question
  10459. becomes, do you...
  10460.  
  10461. 2221
  10462. 01:51:32,959 --> 01:51:35,792
  10463. do we believe
  10464. that she would say,
  10465.  
  10466. 2222
  10467. 01:51:35,875 --> 01:51:38,000
  10468. "I knowingly lied?"
  10469.  
  10470. 2223
  10471. 01:51:39,166 --> 01:51:41,458
  10472. I have a hard time
  10473.  
  10474. 2224
  10475. 01:51:41,542 --> 01:51:43,333
  10476. imagining her saying that.
  10477.  
  10478. 2225
  10479. 01:51:46,250 --> 01:51:49,625
  10480. She was a zealot, and a zealot
  10481. is such a believer,
  10482.  
  10483. 2226
  10484. 01:51:49,709 --> 01:51:51,959
  10485. a true believer,
  10486. in what they're doing
  10487.  
  10488. 2227
  10489. 01:51:52,041 --> 01:51:55,083
  10490. that they're blind to the
  10491. reality of what's happening.
  10492.  
  10493. 2228
  10494. 01:51:56,333 --> 01:51:58,583
  10495. Not for a moment do I believe
  10496.  
  10497. 2229
  10498. 01:51:58,667 --> 01:52:02,291
  10499. that she lies in bed
  10500. at night and thinks,
  10501.  
  10502. 2230
  10503. 01:52:02,375 --> 01:52:06,083
  10504. "I was a swindler.
  10505. I was a crook. I lied."
  10506.  
  10507. 2231
  10508. 01:52:10,834 --> 01:52:15,000
  10509. So one day, I get an e-mail from
  10510. somebody who works with Elizabeth Holmes.
  10511.  
  10512. 2232
  10513. 01:52:15,083 --> 01:52:19,792
  10514. He asked me if I would come and meet
  10515. with their team and with Elizabeth.
  10516.  
  10517. 2233
  10518. 01:52:19,875 --> 01:52:21,625
  10519. I said sure.
  10520.  
  10521. 2234
  10522. 01:52:21,709 --> 01:52:25,375
  10523. Part of my research is actually
  10524. about human motivation,
  10525.  
  10526. 2235
  10527. 01:52:25,458 --> 01:52:28,834
  10528. and she was very concerned about
  10529. the demotivation in the company.
  10530.  
  10531. 2236
  10532. 01:52:28,917 --> 01:52:32,458
  10533. Right? Because
  10534. the continuous stories
  10535.  
  10536. 2237
  10537. 01:52:32,542 --> 01:52:36,417
  10538. around them were demotivating.
  10539.  
  10540. 2238
  10541. 01:52:36,500 --> 01:52:42,417
  10542. My impression was that she truly
  10543. believed in the mission of the company,
  10544.  
  10545. 2239
  10546. 01:52:42,500 --> 01:52:45,208
  10547. and that she also
  10548. believes that they are
  10549.  
  10550. 2240
  10551. 01:52:45,291 --> 01:52:48,583
  10552. on the way to achieve something,
  10553.  
  10554. 2241
  10555. 01:52:48,667 --> 01:52:51,291
  10556. and they just need the runway.
  10557.  
  10558. 2242
  10559. 01:52:54,625 --> 01:52:57,000
  10560. There's a lot of lying
  10561. in Silicon Valley.
  10562.  
  10563. 2243
  10564. 01:52:59,542 --> 01:53:02,583
  10565. And I remember when my first
  10566. book on dishonesty came out,
  10567.  
  10568. 2244
  10569. 01:53:02,667 --> 01:53:05,208
  10570. and I did a book tour,
  10571. and I gave a few talks
  10572.  
  10573. 2245
  10574. 01:53:05,291 --> 01:53:07,750
  10575. in Silicon Valley,
  10576. some entrepreneur said,
  10577.  
  10578. 2246
  10579. 01:53:07,834 --> 01:53:11,083
  10580. "Oh, we are in technology.
  10581. Technology doesn't lie."
  10582.  
  10583. 2247
  10584. 01:53:11,166 --> 01:53:13,059
  10585. Right?
  10586. So, and they basically said,
  10587.  
  10588. 2248
  10589. 01:53:13,083 --> 01:53:15,208
  10590. "We are honest,
  10591. there's no opportunities."
  10592.  
  10593. 2249
  10594. 01:53:15,291 --> 01:53:17,625
  10595. And I didn't say anything,
  10596. but in two minutes,
  10597.  
  10598. 2250
  10599. 01:53:17,709 --> 01:53:20,166
  10600. all kind of people from
  10601. the start-ups around him
  10602.  
  10603. 2251
  10604. 01:53:20,250 --> 01:53:23,792
  10605. started talking about
  10606. how they lie to investors.
  10607.  
  10608. 2252
  10609. 01:53:24,500 --> 01:53:27,000
  10610. And they have all these graphs
  10611. of growth, right?
  10612.  
  10613. 2253
  10614. 01:53:27,083 --> 01:53:28,917
  10615. I mean, they're predicting
  10616. the future,
  10617.  
  10618. 2254
  10619. 01:53:29,000 --> 01:53:31,250
  10620. and they putting
  10621. exact numbers on their...
  10622.  
  10623. 2255
  10624. 01:53:31,333 --> 01:53:35,041
  10625. And my thought was
  10626. that there is this idea
  10627.  
  10628. 2256
  10629. 01:53:35,125 --> 01:53:38,375
  10630. in Silicon Valley,
  10631. where you, um...
  10632.  
  10633. 2257
  10634. 01:53:38,458 --> 01:53:41,000
  10635. in a very brave way,
  10636.  
  10637. 2258
  10638. 01:53:41,834 --> 01:53:45,792
  10639. put a post somewhere really far
  10640.  
  10641. 2259
  10642. 01:53:45,875 --> 01:53:49,083
  10643. that you truly have
  10644. no idea if you can get there.
  10645.  
  10646. 2260
  10647. 01:53:49,166 --> 01:53:52,917
  10648. And my sense from the
  10649. discussion with Elizabeth was
  10650.  
  10651. 2261
  10652. 01:53:53,000 --> 01:53:55,917
  10653. that she felt
  10654. that she was basically
  10655.  
  10656. 2262
  10657. 01:53:56,000 --> 01:53:58,625
  10658. doing the same thing
  10659. that everybody else is doing.
  10660.  
  10661. 2263
  10662. 01:54:00,959 --> 01:54:02,685
  10663. We have lots of people
  10664. who are overconfident,
  10665.  
  10666. 2264
  10667. 01:54:02,709 --> 01:54:05,125
  10668. and from time to time,
  10669. some of them work out,
  10670.  
  10671. 2265
  10672. 01:54:05,208 --> 01:54:08,166
  10673. and we get penicillin,
  10674. or the incandescent light bulb,
  10675.  
  10676. 2266
  10677. 01:54:08,250 --> 01:54:11,333
  10678. or we get...
  10679.  
  10680. 2267
  10681. 01:54:13,250 --> 01:54:15,291
  10682. And if you are
  10683. surrounded by companies
  10684.  
  10685. 2268
  10686. 01:54:15,375 --> 01:54:17,583
  10687. who try very hard
  10688. and dedicate their lives
  10689.  
  10690. 2269
  10691. 01:54:17,667 --> 01:54:20,875
  10692. to achieve the impossible,
  10693.  
  10694. 2270
  10695. 01:54:20,959 --> 01:54:24,208
  10696. and then sometimes they
  10697. are successful in doing it,
  10698.  
  10699. 2271
  10700. 01:54:24,291 --> 01:54:26,208
  10701. why can't you?
  10702.  
  10703. 2272
  10704. 01:54:29,041 --> 01:54:30,458
  10705. At the highest level,
  10706.  
  10707. 2273
  10708. 01:54:30,542 --> 01:54:33,208
  10709. we didn't have the right
  10710. leadership in the laboratory,
  10711.  
  10712. 2274
  10713. 01:54:33,291 --> 01:54:35,083
  10714. and I didn't realize
  10715.  
  10716. 2275
  10717. 01:54:35,166 --> 01:54:37,417
  10718. until the inspection
  10719.  
  10720. 2276
  10721. 01:54:37,500 --> 01:54:39,542
  10722. that these types
  10723. of issues were in place.
  10724.  
  10725. 2277
  10726. 01:54:39,625 --> 01:54:41,792
  10727. So, until
  10728. the government told you
  10729.  
  10730. 2278
  10731. 01:54:41,875 --> 01:54:43,393
  10732. that you were really
  10733. out of compliance,
  10734.  
  10735. 2279
  10736. 01:54:43,417 --> 01:54:44,583
  10737. - you didn't know?
  10738. - Yeah.
  10739.  
  10740. 2280
  10741. 01:54:44,667 --> 01:54:46,417
  10742. What was your reaction
  10743. when you found out
  10744.  
  10745. 2281
  10746. 01:54:46,500 --> 01:54:47,834
  10747. that you had all
  10748. these violations
  10749.  
  10750. 2282
  10751. 01:54:47,917 --> 01:54:49,500
  10752. - in your lab?
  10753. - It was devastating.
  10754.  
  10755. 2283
  10756. 01:54:49,583 --> 01:54:51,542
  10757. Don't blame anyone else.
  10758.  
  10759. 2284
  10760. 01:54:51,625 --> 01:54:54,065
  10761. You have controlling shares in
  10762. that company, Elizabeth Holmes.
  10763.  
  10764. 2285
  10765. 01:54:54,125 --> 01:54:55,458
  10766. The buck stops there.
  10767.  
  10768. 2286
  10769. 01:54:55,542 --> 01:55:00,458
  10770. People make mistakes,
  10771. but you must always admit it.
  10772.  
  10773. 2287
  10774. 01:55:00,542 --> 01:55:01,875
  10775. My husband's favorite phrase:
  10776.  
  10777. 2288
  10778. 01:55:01,959 --> 01:55:04,750
  10779. "Excuses are like assholes.
  10780. Everyone has one."
  10781.  
  10782. 2289
  10783. 01:55:04,834 --> 01:55:07,250
  10784. Sorry. You don't have to put that in there.
  10785.  
  10786. 2290
  10787. 01:55:07,333 --> 01:55:09,333
  10788. One of the headlines was,
  10789.  
  10790. 2291
  10791. 01:55:09,417 --> 01:55:11,667
  10792. "$9 Billion Company
  10793. Down to Zero."
  10794.  
  10795. 2292
  10796. 01:55:11,750 --> 01:55:13,583
  10797. And your investors
  10798. and your board members
  10799.  
  10800. 2293
  10801. 01:55:13,667 --> 01:55:15,208
  10802. are reading those
  10803. same things.
  10804.  
  10805. 2294
  10806. 01:55:15,291 --> 01:55:17,542
  10807. It's probably the most
  10808. important question, I think,
  10809.  
  10810. 2295
  10811. 01:55:17,625 --> 01:55:19,458
  10812. anybody who's watching
  10813. has about this.
  10814.  
  10815. 2296
  10816. 01:55:19,542 --> 01:55:21,875
  10817. - Does it work?
  10818. - Yes.
  10819.  
  10820. 2297
  10821. 01:55:21,959 --> 01:55:25,458
  10822. - You're confident in that?
  10823. - I am confident in that.
  10824.  
  10825. 2298
  10826. 01:55:25,542 --> 01:55:28,834
  10827. Without further ado,
  10828. I'd like to welcome Elizabeth Holmes,
  10829.  
  10830. 2299
  10831. 01:55:28,917 --> 01:55:31,917
  10832. founder and CEO of Theranos, to the stage.
  10833.  
  10834. 2300
  10835. 01:55:32,000 --> 01:55:33,875
  10836. Elizabeth did not give up.
  10837.  
  10838. 2301
  10839. 01:55:33,959 --> 01:55:36,000
  10840. She fought back
  10841. by taking center stage
  10842.  
  10843. 2302
  10844. 01:55:36,083 --> 01:55:39,709
  10845. at a clinical lab conference
  10846. in front of all her critics.
  10847.  
  10848. 2303
  10849. 01:55:39,792 --> 01:55:43,417
  10850. She defiantly unveiled the machine
  10851. she'd been hiding for so long.
  10852.  
  10853. 2304
  10854. 01:55:43,500 --> 01:55:46,375
  10855. - The miniLab is designed...
  10856. - She called it "miniLab,"
  10857.  
  10858. 2305
  10859. 01:55:46,458 --> 01:55:48,000
  10860. as if it were a new invention.
  10861.  
  10862. 2306
  10863. 01:55:48,083 --> 01:55:50,291
  10864. This is an inflection
  10865. point for our company...
  10866.  
  10867. 2307
  10868. 01:55:50,375 --> 01:55:53,375
  10869. But inside Theranos,
  10870. it had another name.
  10871.  
  10872. 2308
  10873. 01:55:53,458 --> 01:55:55,667
  10874. Edison 4.0.
  10875.  
  10876. 2309
  10877. 01:55:58,041 --> 01:56:00,500
  10878. By 2017, Theranos had spent
  10879.  
  10880. 2310
  10881. 01:56:00,583 --> 01:56:03,875
  10882. virtually all of
  10883. the $900 million it had raised.
  10884.  
  10885. 2311
  10886. 01:56:03,959 --> 01:56:06,875
  10887. Nearly 300 million
  10888. went to pay legal fees,
  10889.  
  10890. 2312
  10891. 01:56:06,959 --> 01:56:08,750
  10892. settle lawsuits from investors,
  10893.  
  10894. 2313
  10895. 01:56:08,834 --> 01:56:13,000
  10896. and to refund every patient in
  10897. Arizona for their blood tests.
  10898.  
  10899. 2314
  10900. 01:56:13,834 --> 01:56:15,667
  10901. Henry Kissinger, George Shultz,
  10902.  
  10903. 2315
  10904. 01:56:15,750 --> 01:56:18,542
  10905. and even David Boies
  10906. resigned from the board.
  10907.  
  10908. 2316
  10909. 01:56:19,458 --> 01:56:21,291
  10910. Elizabeth broke up with Sunny
  10911.  
  10912. 2317
  10913. 01:56:21,375 --> 01:56:23,125
  10914. and fired him from the company.
  10915.  
  10916. 2318
  10917. 01:56:23,208 --> 01:56:27,000
  10918. But she never lost her faith
  10919. in the power of invention.
  10920.  
  10921. 2319
  10922. 01:56:29,041 --> 01:56:32,542
  10923. It's finding...
  10924. what you love,
  10925.  
  10926. 2320
  10927. 01:56:32,625 --> 01:56:34,458
  10928. and finding what
  10929. you're born to do,
  10930.  
  10931. 2321
  10932. 01:56:34,542 --> 01:56:37,125
  10933. and when you find that,
  10934. whether it's...
  10935.  
  10936. 2322
  10937. 01:56:37,208 --> 01:56:39,166
  10938. you know, writing, or painting,
  10939.  
  10940. 2323
  10941. 01:56:39,250 --> 01:56:42,166
  10942. or science, or whatever
  10943. it is, when you...
  10944.  
  10945. 2324
  10946. 01:56:42,667 --> 01:56:44,375
  10947. when you really
  10948.  
  10949. 2325
  10950. 01:56:44,458 --> 01:56:47,166
  10951. give everything to that, then...
  10952.  
  10953. 2326
  10954. 01:56:48,208 --> 01:56:51,542
  10955. then you can realize
  10956. great things and...
  10957.  
  10958. 2327
  10959. 01:56:52,291 --> 01:56:54,291
  10960. we'll fail 10,000 times
  10961. if we have to,
  10962.  
  10963. 2328
  10964. 01:56:54,375 --> 01:56:58,583
  10965. but we'll figure it out
  10966. on the 10,0001st, you know.
  10967.  
  10968. 2329
  10969. 01:57:21,375 --> 01:57:24,041
  10970. Ms. Holmes,
  10971. please raise your right hand.
  10972.  
  10973. 2330
  10974. 01:57:24,125 --> 01:57:25,768
  10975. Do you swear to tell
  10976. the truth, the whole truth,
  10977.  
  10978. 2331
  10979. 01:57:25,792 --> 01:57:27,750
  10980. - and nothing but the truth?
  10981. - I do.
  10982.  
  10983. 2332
  10984. 01:57:39,041 --> 01:57:40,208
  10985. ♪ You can't touch this ♪
  10986.  
  10987. 2333
  10988. 01:57:42,583 --> 01:57:43,750
  10989. ♪ You can't touch this ♪
  10990.  
  10991. 2334
  10992. 01:57:46,083 --> 01:57:47,000
  10993. ♪ You can't
  10994. touch this ♪
  10995.  
  10996. 2335
  10997. 01:57:47,083 --> 01:57:49,625
  10998. ♪ Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh ♪
  10999.  
  11000. 2336
  11001. 01:57:49,709 --> 01:57:50,625
  11002. ♪ You can't
  11003. touch this ♪
  11004.  
  11005. 2337
  11006. 01:57:50,709 --> 01:57:52,291
  11007. ♪ Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh ♪
  11008.  
  11009. 2338
  11010. 01:57:52,375 --> 01:57:54,458
  11011. ♪ My, my, my, my music ♪
  11012.  
  11013. 2339
  11014. 01:57:54,542 --> 01:57:55,667
  11015. ♪ Keeps me so hard ♪
  11016.  
  11017. 2340
  11018. 01:57:55,750 --> 01:57:57,667
  11019. ♪ Makes me say
  11020. Oh my Lord ♪
  11021.  
  11022. 2341
  11023. 01:57:57,750 --> 01:57:59,125
  11024. ♪ Thank you
  11025. for blessing me ♪
  11026.  
  11027. 2342
  11028. 01:57:59,208 --> 01:58:01,000
  11029. ♪ With a mind to rhyme
  11030. and two hype feet ♪
  11031.  
  11032. 2343
  11033. 01:58:01,083 --> 01:58:02,875
  11034. ♪ It feels good when
  11035. you know you're down ♪
  11036.  
  11037. 2344
  11038. 01:58:02,959 --> 01:58:04,667
  11039. ♪ A super dope homeboy
  11040. from the Oaktown ♪
  11041.  
  11042. 2345
  11043. 01:58:04,750 --> 01:58:06,333
  11044. ♪ And I'm known as such ♪
  11045.  
  11046. 2346
  11047. 01:58:06,417 --> 01:58:08,750
  11048. ♪ And this is the beat
  11049. you can't touch... ♪
  11050.  
  11051. 2347
  11052. 01:58:09,500 --> 01:58:11,166
  11053. ♪ I told you,
  11054. homeboy ♪
  11055.  
  11056. 2348
  11057. 01:58:11,291 --> 01:58:12,959
  11058. ♪ You can't touch this ♪
  11059.  
  11060. 2349
  11061. 01:58:13,041 --> 01:58:14,792
  11062. ♪ Yeah, that's how
  11063. we living and you know ♪
  11064.  
  11065. 2350
  11066. 01:58:14,875 --> 01:58:16,792
  11067. ♪ Can't
  11068. touch this ♪
  11069.  
  11070. 2351
  11071. 01:58:16,875 --> 01:58:18,375
  11072. ♪ Look in my eyes, man ♪
  11073.  
  11074. 2352
  11075. 01:58:18,458 --> 01:58:19,208
  11076. ♪ You can't touch this ♪
  11077.  
  11078. 2353
  11079. 01:58:19,291 --> 01:58:20,709
  11080. ♪ Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh ♪
  11081.  
  11082. 2354
  11083. 01:58:20,792 --> 01:58:22,851
  11084. ♪ Yo, let me bust the funky
  11085. lyrics, can't touch this ♪
  11086.  
  11087. 2355
  11088. 01:58:22,875 --> 01:58:24,542
  11089. ♪ Fresh new kicks
  11090. and pants ♪
  11091.  
  11092. 2356
  11093. 01:58:24,625 --> 01:58:26,559
  11094. ♪ You got it like that now
  11095. you know you wanna dance ♪
  11096.  
  11097. 2357
  11098. 01:58:26,583 --> 01:58:28,041
  11099. ♪ So move out of your seat ♪
  11100.  
  11101. 2358
  11102. 01:58:28,125 --> 01:58:30,166
  11103. ♪ And get a fly girl
  11104. and catch this beat ♪
  11105.  
  11106. 2359
  11107. 01:58:30,250 --> 01:58:31,166
  11108. ♪ While it's rollin' ♪
  11109.  
  11110. 2360
  11111. 01:58:31,250 --> 01:58:32,458
  11112. ♪ Hold on pump a little bit ♪
  11113.  
  11114. 2361
  11115. 01:58:32,542 --> 01:58:35,166
  11116. ♪ And let me know it's going on like that,
  11117. like that ♪
  11118.  
  11119. 2362
  11120. 01:58:35,250 --> 01:58:36,917
  11121. ♪ Cold on a mission
  11122. so fall on back ♪
  11123.  
  11124. 2363
  11125. 01:58:37,000 --> 01:58:38,875
  11126. ♪ Let 'em know that
  11127. you're too much ♪
  11128.  
  11129. 2364
  11130. 01:58:38,959 --> 01:58:41,250
  11131. ♪ And this is a beat
  11132. they can't touch ♪
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