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JaysonSunshine

Basic Model of Consciousness

JaysonSunshine
Jun 10th, 2018
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  1. 12:06:08 AM+lionncommon sense must be used to come to the conclusion of the existance of a creator
  2. 12:06:25 AM+lionnman lacks common sense
  3. 12:06:48 AM+lionnpeople will deny what they do not know
  4. 12:06:55 AM+lionnignorance is also a problem
  5. 12:07:08 AM+SimpleJakI recommend dropping the phrase 'common sense' from your vocabulary.
  6. 12:07:11 AM+lionnyou are right with common sense
  7. 12:07:33 AM+lionncommon sense is one of the greatest things the creator has given to us
  8. 12:07:42 AM+lionnall things are subjective
  9. 12:07:51 AM← Kalamity has left
  10. 12:07:56 AM+lionnwe must apply common sense to come to conclusions of what we believe is true
  11. 12:08:01 AM+SimpleJaklionn: You're a solipsist?
  12. 12:08:09 AM+SimpleJakI am a realist.
  13. 12:08:09 AM+lionni dont know what that is
  14. 12:08:27 AM+SimpleJakSolipsism (/ˈsɒlɪpsɪzəm/ (About this sound listen); from Latin solus, meaning 'alone', and ipse, meaning 'self')[1] is the philosophical idea that only one's own mind is sure to exist. As an epistemological position, solipsism holds that knowledge of anything outside one's own mind is unsure; the external world and other minds cannot be known and might not exist outside the mind. As a metaphysical position, solipsism goes further to the conclusion that the world and other minds do not exist.
  15. 12:09:01 AM+lionni believe there is one God
  16. 12:09:08 AM+lionnwho created everything from nothing
  17. 12:09:24 AM+SimpleJakAre you that "one God"?
  18. 12:09:29 AM+lionnno
  19. 12:09:36 AM+SimpleJakThen you don't think all things are subjective.
  20. 12:09:40 AM+atheistFunalthough, lionn admits that 'man lacks common sense', him included i expect., SimpleJak
  21. 12:09:53 AM+SimpleJak'Common sense' is a terrible phrase that leads to confusion.
  22. 12:09:55 AM→ Grey_Fox has joined
  23. 12:09:57 AMⓘ Profound set mode +v Grey_Fox
  24. 12:10:06 AM+atheistFuni agree, rather meaningless
  25. 12:10:17 AM+lionnatheist lack common sense is what i meant
  26. 12:10:30 AM+SimpleJakIt ends up meaning something like 'the unstated cultural knowledge of my childhood'.
  27. 12:10:35 AM+lionncommon sense is one of the best things the creator has given us
  28. 12:10:35 AM+SimpleJakWhich, naturally, varies from culture to culture.
  29. 12:10:46 AM+SimpleJaklionn: Please define 'common sense'.
  30. 12:10:58 AMⓘ Grey_Fox is now known as Guest56025
  31. 12:10:59 AM+lionncommon sense allows us to come to conclusions in our minds
  32. 12:11:13 AM+SimpleJakatheistFun: Have you seen Westworld?
  33. 12:11:19 AM+atheistFuni have SimpleJak
  34. 12:11:21 AM+SimpleJaklionn: I'd call that 'standard mental function'.
  35. 12:11:26 AM+lionncommon sense tells me that this earth was designed for humans to live here
  36. 12:11:37 AM+SimpleJakatheistFun: My personal belief is that atheist results from smarter minds.
  37. 12:11:45 AM+lionncommon sense tells me the sun has been put in a place where it needs to be for us to survive on this earth
  38. 12:11:54 AM+SimpleJakI get the feeling when listening to many theists explore their consciousness that they're doing something similar to the robots in Westworld.
  39. 12:11:55 AM+atheistFunSimpleJak: i don't know that.
  40. 12:11:57 AM+lionnif the sun was closer or further from us we would not exist
  41. 12:12:17 AM+SimpleJakAs far as I can tell, lionn is confusing the activity of his brain with 'God'.
  42. 12:12:32 AM+SimpleJakThere seems to be a lack of mindfulness that I struggle to empathize with.
  43. 12:13:20 AM+atheistFunSimpleJak: a episode called the 'Bicameral Mind' dealt with the idea of the individual speaking to themselves. although I do't know whether that view is given much weight nowadays
  44. 12:13:26 AM+SimpleJaklionn: The anthropic principle resolves your last issue.
  45. 12:13:34 AM+SimpleJakatheistFun: I recall that episode.
  46. 12:13:41 AM+SimpleJakIt is not a leading model in cognitive science, no.
  47. 12:13:45 AM+SimpleJakBut I found it very interesting.
  48. 12:14:00 AM+atheistFunwhere Bernard was prompting Dolores to trust her own inner voice
  49. 12:14:07 AM+SimpleJakYep.
  50. 12:14:11 AM+lionnhow is it that humans need vitamins and minerals to live and plants give us that
  51. 12:14:16 AM+lionnis this all here by random chance
  52. 12:14:22 AM+SimpleJakI do think a substantial amount of the theistic experience is minds being confused as to where their thoughts are coming from.
  53. 12:14:35 AM+lionnwe need oxygen to breathe and trees give us that is that by random chance that happend
  54. 12:14:38 AM+SimpleJaklionn: Anthropic principle and natural selection.
  55. 12:14:47 AM+SimpleJakSee, 'the blind watchmaker'.
  56. 12:15:02 AM+atheistFunSimpleJak: that's all we have to go by, imo
  57. 12:15:04 AM+SimpleJakIt is not random, no.
  58. 12:15:33 AM+lionnscience cannot make something from nothing but God did make something from nothing
  59. 12:15:39 AM+SimpleJaklionn: I have the insight from the next level of mindfulness.
  60. 12:15:47 AM+SimpleJakIt won't make sense to you.
  61. 12:15:49 AM+SimpleJakI'm sorry.
  62. 12:15:49 AM+lionnwho told you what darwin said was true
  63. 12:15:54 AM+lionndo you lack common sense
  64. 12:15:55 AM+SimpleJakThe next level of understanding probably doesn't make sense to me.
  65. 12:16:12 AM+SimpleJaklionn: My IQ is in the 99.984%tile.
  66. 12:16:20 AM+SimpleJak154-161
  67. 12:16:25 AM+SimpleJaklionn: I can resolve theism for you.
  68. 12:16:29 AM+lionnyet you believe what darwin says
  69. 12:16:47 AM+SimpleJaklionn: You are a Homo sapien that has some capacity for self-reflection.
  70. 12:16:50 AM+lionncan you make something from nothing /
  71. 12:17:04 AM+lionni am a human with common sense
  72. 12:17:05 AM+SimpleJakYour self-reflection is created by the complex interaction of neuronal circuits that you cannot consciously perceive.
  73. 12:17:14 AM+lionncommon sense is what atheist lack
  74. 12:17:17 AM+SimpleJaklionn: I am a cognitive prophet.
  75. 12:17:25 AM+SimpleJakMy beautiful message is lost on you.
  76. 12:17:51 AM+SimpleJaklionn: The way you think, your 'common sense', is one computational pattern that is effective at solving some problems.
  77. 12:18:09 AM+SimpleJakIt is all that you know, and you cannot conceive of how such a thing can come into existence without something of the same type creating it.
  78. 12:18:21 AM← Banquo has quit (Quit:)
  79. 12:18:22 AM+SimpleJakAnd so you have projected the 'support' of your conscious experience to the boundaries of space-time.
  80. 12:18:41 AM+SimpleJakYou have concluded, from ignorance, that surely the ultimate cause of things is a being just like you -- as it all you can imagine.
  81. 12:18:46 AM+SimpleJakHowever, this perception of yours is false.
  82. 12:18:56 AM+SimpleJakIt is possible to have very 'intelligent' processes that are not at all like you.
  83. 12:19:01 AM+SimpleJakThey are not conscious in the way you are conscious.
  84. 12:19:09 AM+SimpleJakSuch a process -- evolution -- is what built you to be like you.
  85. 12:19:23 AM+lionncommon sense tells me that humans did not evolve from apes
  86. 12:19:28 AM Ignoring lionn!*@*
  87. 12:19:31 AM+SimpleJakGoodnight, lionn.
  88. 12:19:42 AM+SimpleJakMay you find emotional contentment with your current level of understanding.
  89. 12:19:49 AM+atheistFuna leap from a human 'justlike me' to a god is significant
  90. 12:19:54 AM+atheistFunto say the least
  91. 12:20:02 AM+SimpleJakatheistFun: It's the best some theistic minds can do.
  92. 12:20:07 AM+SimpleJakThey're just barely self-aware.
  93. 12:20:33 AM+SimpleJak"Surely this is all for me. Me. Me. Me. I. I. I. I'm so f*cking important."
  94. 12:20:42 AM+atheistFunbut they assert it as a logical progression SimpleJak
  95. 12:20:49 AM+atheistFunwhy is that?
  96. 12:20:51 AM+SimpleJakIt is, with the tools they have.
  97. 12:21:18 AM+SimpleJakatheistFun: They have just awoken into an experience that they can barely comprehend.
  98. 12:21:42 AM+SimpleJakThey cannot simultaneously model that while also placing that experience inside a subsuming model that features other processes which differ markedly from their primary experience.
  99. 12:21:42 AM+atheistFunSimpleJak: i can't pretend to comprehend my experience either
  100. 12:21:47 AM+SimpleJakIt requires too much computational power.
  101. 12:22:31 AM+SimpleJakatheistFun: We have a universal computer that arises from the architecture of our neurons.
  102. 12:22:46 AM+SimpleJakNeural networks, the computer models, which are simpler than our neo-cortices, are also universal computers.
  103. 12:22:50 AM+SimpleJakThis was proved in the 1980s.
  104. 12:23:00 AM+SimpleJakEverything in the universe which is computable can be computed by a neural network.
  105. 12:23:08 AM+SimpleJakThis is relevant as it allows for recursive reflection in our minds.
  106. 12:23:25 AM+SimpleJakWhatever we're experiencing, is, presumably, a computable function that we're modeling in our cortex.
  107. 12:23:33 AM+SimpleJakThat mental activity is also a computable experience that we can experience.
  108. 12:23:51 AM+atheistFunSimpleJak: i don't know what any that means. Sorry I can't make maintain a conversation with you at that level.
  109. 12:24:04 AM+SimpleJakOkay.
  110. 12:24:29 AM+SimpleJakhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_approximation_theorem
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