sms il s6 emu ban rationale

== motion to ban emulator for s6 and s6j ils (Despin Discord) ==

shoutplenty 27/06/2023 17:03
also are we all loosely agreed on the need to ban emulator for s6 il? it’s been a pending matter for a few years and just became relevant again with this shigbe il
i will watch it later to see if it looks possible on console

FoundYourGun 27/06/2023 18:44
is there evidence that emu s6 can be completed easier than on console? is that just cause goop doesn't properly render on emulator?

PumpMan 27/06/2023 19:39
yea
i cant find the shigbe IL tho
tbh the (supposed) fact that s6 renders goop differently on emulator and we dont really understand it well is enough for me to loosely agree to ban emu for s6

FoundYourGun 27/06/2023 20:15
its on main sheet, but u can also find it on shout's sheet

PumpMan 27/06/2023 20:17
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1121460349011505213/1123331389027274823/shigbee.png

FoundYourGun 27/06/2023 20:19
huh that's weird. the link was there just yesterday i think
i found it in my yt history lol https://youtu.be/7ZKh0-4K3k4

shoutplenty 27/06/2023 20:27
shig deleted it today after i inquired
by "inquired" i dont mean mafia-style with a baseball bat. i actually just asked which of his times use save-state reset :p

siemke 27/06/2023 20:32
💀

FoundYourGun 27/06/2023 20:37
i see. save state resetting was banned for the main sheet right? ig it would be invalid based on that rule then

shoutplenty 27/06/2023 21:01
yeah
there is this one other example jpep complained about a lot https://clips.twitch.tv/EnergeticWrongManateeKlappa
Twitch | Metacor - Sirena 6 IL - 2:32.84
cos of the visuals of leftover goop at the end

shoutplenty 27/06/2023 21:05
> tbh the (supposed) fact that s6 renders goop differently on emulator ...
it is fact:

FoundYourGun 27/06/2023 21:06
i wonder if metacor knows that emu s6 (ntscu) is presumably easier than on console
i can loosely agree on banning emu for s6 exclusively

shoutplenty 27/06/2023 21:09
https://github.com/dolphin-emu/dolphin/pull/11647
GitHub | Fix PerfQuery inconsistencies across backends. by AdmiralCurtiss · ...
> This was discovered by someone on Twitter: https://twitter.com/sup39x1207/status/1632813805213454337
> I was promised a PR on Discord a few days ago but it never showed up, so here I am with it inste...
thanks to sup39 being... insane, all of the evidence is deleted
but this is a good secondary source
the bug thats fixed here is one of the numbers not being divided by 4 on D3D11 and vulkan (iirc) opengl + metal (on mac) backends specifically
so the initial value of some goop-related number could be 4× higher
and as the guy at the link says, the number is still wrong even after this fix, which is itself only in dolphin 5.0-19xxx and later
to be clear, this isnt to do with rendering, rather with the mechanism by which the console/emulator asks the gpu how much goop has been rendered
but all the same this means emu is theoretically wrong

shoutplenty 27/06/2023 21:13
we have that metacor video, which we can ask him about maybe
in my experience, emulator s6 is much harder than on console, so i have to factor in that timeloss when doing IWs

shoutplenty 27/06/2023 21:14
but this isnt gonna be generally true; as shown here, it depends on settings
but these 3 things (theory, metacor vid, my experience) are what make me consider banning emu to be safer
maybe only ban over the video threshold for now?
well, better ban generally and enforce more rigidly over threshold actually to stop ppl from submitting old pbs

shoutplenty 27/06/2023 21:22
so yeah i will enact that i think cos i just gave the evidence for the conditionals u guys used in your agreements. am still listening for opinions if there are more


== metacor s6 emulator testing ==

Dolphin Version Check; √ = Good | X = Bad
	? No Micro-Stutter (Requires Extended Testing)
		(All tested versions between 6339 & 11991 have micro-stutters,
		other than version 5.0-9413 for unknown reasons)
	Sirena 6;
		? NTSC-U
		? NTSC-J (Always worse than Console, but sometimes it's completable)
		? PAL
	Fast Any% Settings (FA%, Shine Get, Infinite Lifes, No Music);
		? NTSC-U
		? NTSC-J
		? PAL

All version using the same settings (when available)
	Main Settings;
		Config;
			Dual Core - Enabled
			Idle Skipping - Enabled
			CPU Emulator Engine - JIT Recompiler
		Graphics;
			OpenGL
			All Resolution / AA / Filtering @ Default / Auto / Off / 1x
			Enhancements;
				Scaled EFB Copy - Off
				Force Texture Filtering - Off
			Hacks;
				Skip EFB Access from CPU - Off
				Store EFB Copies to Texure Only - Off
				External Frame Buffer (XFB) - Disabled
				Fast Depth Calculation - Off
			Advanced;
				Progressive Scane - Enabled
		Game Properties; Default
			Synchronize GPU Thread On
			Emulation State: Perfect (when available)


5.0; Has Limited Code Memory
	? No Micro-Stutter; Requires more Testing
	Sirena 6;
		√ NTSC-U
		√ NTSC-J
		√ PAL
	Fast Any% Settings;
		X NTSC-U
		√ NTSC-J
		√ PAL

5.0-321 SL
	√ No Micro-Stutter
	Sirena 6;
		√ NTSC-U
		√ NTSC-J
		√ PAL
	Fast Any% Settings;
		X NTSC-U
		X NTSC-J
		√ PAL

5.0-6339
	? No Micro-Stutter
	Sirena 6;
		X NTSC-U
		X NTSC-J
		X PAL
	Fast Any% Settings;
		√ NTSC-U
		√ NTSC-J
		√ PAL

5.0-6465
	X No Micro-Stutter
	Sirena 6;
		X NTSC-U
		X NTSC-J
		X PAL
	Fast Any% Settings;
		√ NTSC-U
		√ NTSC-J
		√ PAL

5.0-9413
	√ No Micro-Stutter;
	Sirena 6;
		X NTSC-U
		X NTSC-J
		X PAL
	Fast Any% Settings;
		√ NTSC-U
		√ NTSC-J
		√ PAL

5.0-11991 (Current Version); Tested versions around this version perform similarly
	X No Micro-Stutter;
		Screen Stutters as if it's switching from 16:9 > 4:3 randomly
	Sirena 6;
		X NTSC-U
		X NTSC-J
		X PAL
	Fast Any% Settings;
		√ NTSC-U
		√ NTSC-J
		√ PAL