[10-Apr-20 09:26 PM] BurntZebra#8147
how do we get webs banned in sm

[10-Apr-20 09:28 PM] Coconut#8762
I want to see how SM looks this tour

[10-Apr-20 09:29 PM] BurntZebra#8147
was the year of SM leading up to the end of SM, not enough to see how things will turn out?

[10-Apr-20 09:30 PM] Coconut#8762
Well it's not getting banned before this tour

[10-Apr-20 09:31 PM] Shrug#7659
the problem is we will be waiting one full year to ban something clearly broken and also that sucks

[10-Apr-20 09:31 PM] BurntZebra#8147
yeah i mean outside of lcpl

[10-Apr-20 09:31 PM] BurntZebra#8147
when will SM really get played that much

[10-Apr-20 09:31 PM] BurntZebra#8147
i guess it somehow got picked in CPL

[10-Apr-20 09:31 PM] BurntZebra#8147
but thats a meme tour

[10-Apr-20 09:31 PM] Shrug#7659
proposal: if u play sm you need to provide your home address and if u web,

[10-Apr-20 09:31 PM] Coconut#8762
Is it a higher priority than Vullaby

[10-Apr-20 09:31 PM] Shrug#7659
yes

[10-Apr-20 09:31 PM] BurntZebra#8147
imo yes

[10-Apr-20 09:31 PM] Shrug#7659
vullaby is not brokeb

[10-Apr-20 09:31 PM] Coconut#8762
Vull had a significant amount of traction

[10-Apr-20 09:31 PM] Coconut#8762
before SM ended

[10-Apr-20 09:31 PM] Shrug#7659
by people who are wrong

[10-Apr-20 09:32 PM] Coconut#8762
Webs only did towards the end

[10-Apr-20 09:32 PM] BurntZebra#8147
except council never did anything about it

[10-Apr-20 09:32 PM] BurntZebra#8147
i mean id vote ban on vull too

[10-Apr-20 09:32 PM] BurntZebra#8147
but banning vull and not banning webs

[10-Apr-20 09:32 PM] BurntZebra#8147
is hella dumb

[10-Apr-20 09:32 PM] Coconut#8762
I just want to make sure that if we did do something, we make the right decision.

[10-Apr-20 09:32 PM] starmaster#8286
if u ban vull jus delete the tier

[10-Apr-20 09:32 PM] Ninja#8225
lets ban webs

[10-Apr-20 09:33 PM] Shrug#7659
banning vull is not good

[10-Apr-20 09:33 PM] BurntZebra#8147
banning webs is low collateral

[10-Apr-20 09:33 PM] Shrug#7659
banning webs is good

[10-Apr-20 09:33 PM] Ninja#8225
id ban vull too but i dont think there would be any fallout from banning webs

[10-Apr-20 09:33 PM] BurntZebra#8147
all you lose are unskillful dedicated webs teams

[10-Apr-20 09:33 PM] starmaster#8286
yeah u could do a webs ban

[10-Apr-20 09:33 PM] Coconut#8762
We're not banning anything in SM before this tour starts. There was no prior discussion on it

[10-Apr-20 09:33 PM] Coconut#8762
There was no metagame testing

[10-Apr-20 09:33 PM] BurntZebra#8147
im pretty sure we all asked for a webs ban

[10-Apr-20 09:33 PM] BurntZebra#8147
like 2 months ago

[10-Apr-20 09:33 PM] Shrug#7659
i posted about it for sure yes

[10-Apr-20 09:33 PM] BurntZebra#8147
not our fault you ignored it

[10-Apr-20 09:34 PM] Coconut#8762
I wasn't TL 2 months ago

[10-Apr-20 09:34 PM] Shrug#7659
not saying it was your fault coco u werent tl then

[10-Apr-20 09:34 PM] Shrug#7659
but i did post about it yes

[10-Apr-20 09:34 PM] Coconut#8762
Okay, well we can review it after this tour

[10-Apr-20 09:34 PM] starmaster#8286
oh i definitely did not mean

[10-Apr-20 09:34 PM] starmaster#8286
ban b4 lcpl

[10-Apr-20 09:34 PM] starmaster#8286
just as smth to look at after

[10-Apr-20 09:34 PM] BurntZebra#8147
guess itll be 2021

[10-Apr-20 09:34 PM] Shrug#7659
the problem is this is the only tour that matters for this tier

[10-Apr-20 09:34 PM] starmaster#8286
webs is fine

[10-Apr-20 09:34 PM] BurntZebra#8147
before we see a new sm meta

[10-Apr-20 09:34 PM] Ninja#8225
what about if SM starters just agree to a no webs meta

[10-Apr-20 09:34 PM] Coconut#8762
you guys can do that, but if you get snaked

[10-Apr-20 09:34 PM] Coconut#8762
it's on you

[redacted]

[10-Apr-20 09:36 PM] LilyAC#7887
i agree webs is banworthy and vull isnt

[redacted]

[11-Apr-20 09:02 AM] Serene Grace#5243
if webs in SM is so banworthy

[11-Apr-20 09:02 AM] Serene Grace#5243
why wasnt it even suspected

[11-Apr-20 09:02 AM] Serene Grace#5243
now we want to ban it via council?

[11-Apr-20 09:03 AM] Serene Grace#5243
its not even like bw where we can blame the boomers

[11-Apr-20 09:05 AM] Serene Grace#5243
what im trying to say is

[11-Apr-20 09:06 AM] Serene Grace#5243
When SM was the current gen it wasn't even suspected (even at the end) , but now, months after the gen ended, theres a huge pro ban sentiment?
just seems revisionist

[11-Apr-20 09:25 AM] BurntZebra#8147
Hmmmmmm

[11-Apr-20 09:25 AM] BurntZebra#8147
It’s almost like for it to get suspected

[11-Apr-20 09:25 AM] BurntZebra#8147
The council would have to suspect it

[11-Apr-20 09:25 AM] Ninja#8225
well more like

[11-Apr-20 09:26 AM] Ninja#8225
it rly only became a major issue in snake

[11-Apr-20 09:26 AM] BurntZebra#8147
Vullaby was also considered banworthy and was never suspected

[11-Apr-20 09:26 AM] Ninja#8225
levi tazz and i were the only ones who wanted to suspect vull

[11-Apr-20 10:18 AM] starmaster#8286
ya bc it was an awful idea

[11-Apr-20 10:18 AM] starmaster#8286
webs is doable bc it doesn’t blow the meta to pieces

[11-Apr-20 10:18 AM] levi#6206
Revisionism is not the right word when we have logs itc indicating that the *only* reason vull (and web) weren’t suspected was timing

[11-Apr-20 10:18 AM] starmaster#8286
nah

[11-Apr-20 10:18 AM] starmaster#8286
that’s false

[11-Apr-20 10:19 AM] starmaster#8286
Nobody brought up webs seriously

[11-Apr-20 10:19 AM] Coconut#8762
we could have tested webs if more people were on board

[11-Apr-20 10:19 AM] starmaster#8286
vull was a timing thing tho

[11-Apr-20 10:19 AM] levi#6206
And that a significant portion of both the playerbase and council disagreed w this line of reasoning

[11-Apr-20 10:19 AM] Coconut#8762
people brought it up but it certainly wasn't a majority opinion

[11-Apr-20 10:19 AM] Coconut#8762
and I standby that vull was the correct call for what we had

[11-Apr-20 10:19 AM] starmaster#8286
yea I think a vull suspect would have been a macle level decision

[11-Apr-20 10:20 AM] starmaster#8286
webs would have been fine but ur lying if u say any1 really brought it to the table

[11-Apr-20 10:22 AM] Serene Grace#5243
webs never had the issue of timing

[11-Apr-20 10:22 AM] Serene Grace#5243
cause it had 0 collateral

[11-Apr-20 10:22 AM] Serene Grace#5243
it wasnt suspected because no one wanted it suspected

[11-Apr-20 10:22 AM] starmaster#8286
ya

[11-Apr-20 10:24 AM] levi#6206

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[11-Apr-20 10:24 AM] levi#6206
Nothing came of it but it was for sure brought up

[11-Apr-20 10:24 AM] levi#6206
Wish there was an easier way to cp on phone sorry

[11-Apr-20 10:25 AM] Serene Grace#5243
i dont see anything there that indicates webs was a timing issue

[11-Apr-20 10:26 AM] Serene Grace#5243
and clearly it wasnt pressing enough if there was one discussion and then ignored

[11-Apr-20 10:26 AM] levi#6206
Also all of this came after we’d made quite clear that vull was a timing issue, so this discussion was relative to that

[11-Apr-20 10:27 AM] Serene Grace#5243
I find it very hard to justify a webs suspect when it barely made the rounds even when it was a current gen

[11-Apr-20 10:27 AM] levi#6206
Webs got brought up to a serious degree a month-ish before the meta ended

[11-Apr-20 10:28 AM] Serene Grace#5243
not serious enough to be suspected

[11-Apr-20 10:28 AM] Ninja#8225
i mean its rly only since the luther webs team

[11-Apr-20 10:28 AM] Ninja#8225
came to prominence

[11-Apr-20 10:28 AM] Ninja#8225
which was very late SM

[11-Apr-20 10:28 AM] levi#6206
Not a matter of seriousness

[11-Apr-20 10:29 AM] levi#6206
It was a matter of it only becoming as pressing when nobody was looking at sm anymore for real this time

[11-Apr-20 10:29 AM] levi#6206
Fwiw I don’t think we can ban it for lcpl either when it starts in an hour

[11-Apr-20 10:29 AM] levi#6206
Just be clear

[11-Apr-20 10:29 AM] levi#6206
But it was discussed and the timing makes sense for as to why it wasn’t formally banned during the gen

[11-Apr-20 10:30 AM] Serene Grace#5243
what was the timing reasoning for not suspecting webs

[11-Apr-20 10:30 AM] Serene Grace#5243
there is none

[11-Apr-20 10:30 AM] Serene Grace#5243
its 0 collateral

[11-Apr-20 10:30 AM] levi#6206
We were trying to theorymon ss

[11-Apr-20 10:30 AM] levi#6206
Council chat as a whole was dead at the time

[11-Apr-20 10:30 AM] levi#6206
For p much that reason

[11-Apr-20 10:30 AM] Serene Grace#5243
,

[11-Apr-20 10:31 AM] levi#6206
It’s not an excuse, it’s just a reason

[11-Apr-20 10:33 AM] levi#6206
Oh ya

[11-Apr-20 10:33 AM] levi#6206
The better line of reasoning is that we just should’ve banned webs in sm but made a mistake

[11-Apr-20 10:33 AM] levi#6206
Since it’s 0 collateral we can fix it now

[11-Apr-20 10:33 AM] starmaster#8286
well sure but we can’t do it rn

[11-Apr-20 10:34 AM] starmaster#8286
after lcpl would make sense

[11-Apr-20 10:34 AM] levi#6206
Err

[11-Apr-20 10:34 AM] levi#6206
After lcpl

[11-Apr-20 10:34 AM] starmaster#8286
cuz recent sm games + we can pick a real voter pool

[11-Apr-20 10:34 AM] starmaster#8286
yeah I’m cool with that

[11-Apr-20 10:34 AM] levi#6206
Since lcpl would be the reasonable post-curr gen sample size needed to declare its brokenness

[11-Apr-20 10:35 AM] levi#6206
So ig it’s not rlly a mistake since we haven’t o.w had sm tour games since webs became so problematic

[11-Apr-20 10:35 AM] BurntZebra#8147
Pre ss council was also significantly smaller and less cool

[11-Apr-20 10:35 AM] levi#6206
That as well 😍

[11-Apr-20 10:36 AM] Serene Grace#5243
wasnt even suspected in current gen
now is ban worthy

skipping the entire suspect process to vote with a small handpicked council

[11-Apr-20 10:36 AM] LilyAC#7887
yeah i wouldve brought up web for sure

[11-Apr-20 10:36 AM] LilyAC#7887
if i was here

[11-Apr-20 10:36 AM] Serene Grace#5243
arent we literally jumping through hoops with the rufflet cutiefly stuff

[11-Apr-20 10:36 AM] Serene Grace#5243
because of Process

[11-Apr-20 10:37 AM] LilyAC#7887
would there be a way to conduct an sm suspect test

[11-Apr-20 10:37 AM] BurntZebra#8147
Webs feels pretty different in this gen

[11-Apr-20 10:37 AM] BurntZebra#8147
5/6 of luthier webs is not in the current gen

[11-Apr-20 10:38 AM] BurntZebra#8147
Cutiefly made webs not an archetype anymore

[11-Apr-20 10:38 AM] BurntZebra#8147
Like it was no opportunity cost to run webs cutiefly

[11-Apr-20 10:38 AM] levi#6206
Also the abusers are less overbearing

[11-Apr-20 10:38 AM] levi#6206
So it’s kind of just become standard ala rocks

[11-Apr-20 10:39 AM] LilyAC#7887
why are we talking about webs in ss now

[11-Apr-20 10:39 AM] Serene Grace#5243
at a personal level I dont like these hand picked council votes, a small group of people are not necessarily representative of the playerbase.
A council should exist to quick ban the really obvious stuff eg Cutiefly this gen for the sake of speed or to help decide suspects

[11-Apr-20 10:39 AM] Serene Grace#5243
a council should not exist to circumvent popular opinion

[11-Apr-20 10:39 AM] BurntZebra#8147
Serene is for some reason trying to draw weird parallels

[11-Apr-20 10:39 AM] BurntZebra#8147
Between SM and as

[11-Apr-20 10:39 AM] LilyAC#7887
hes not

[11-Apr-20 10:39 AM] BurntZebra#8147
Ss

[11-Apr-20 10:39 AM] Serene Grace#5243
burntzebra...

[11-Apr-20 10:39 AM] levi#6206
Do we think we could amass a playerbase for a ladder suspect?

[11-Apr-20 10:39 AM] LilyAC#7887
when he said wasnt suspect in current gen he meant

[11-Apr-20 10:40 AM] LilyAC#7887
when sm was current gen

[11-Apr-20 10:40 AM] Serene Grace#5243
try to get ur head in the game

[11-Apr-20 10:40 AM] Serene Grace#5243
the draft is soon

[11-Apr-20 10:40 AM] levi#6206
Maybe a tour suspect

[11-Apr-20 10:40 AM] BurntZebra#8147
Why is serene against revisionist changes

[11-Apr-20 10:40 AM] Serene Grace#5243
serenegrace13Today at 8:09 PM
at a personal level I dont like these hand picked council votes, a small group of people are not necessarily representative of the playerbase.

[11-Apr-20 10:40 AM] Ninja#8225
i was wondering that too

[11-Apr-20 10:40 AM] Ninja#8225
its not like the metagame freezes

[11-Apr-20 10:40 AM] Ninja#8225
and no one innovates

[11-Apr-20 10:40 AM] Ninja#8225
once a gen ends

[11-Apr-20 10:40 AM] BurntZebra#8147
If you’re against revisionist changes, then you can’t also be against changing metas before the meta ends

[11-Apr-20 10:40 AM] Coconut#8762
I am heavily against a ladder suspect

[11-Apr-20 10:41 AM] Ninja#8225
there will continue to be changes and potential need for a usspect

[11-Apr-20 10:41 AM] Ninja#8225
suspect

[11-Apr-20 10:41 AM] brewfasa#4532
idm a webs vote / suspect whatever

[11-Apr-20 10:41 AM] Ninja#8225
or vote etc

[11-Apr-20 10:41 AM] brewfasa#4532
after lcpl

[11-Apr-20 10:41 AM] brewfasa#4532
for sm

[11-Apr-20 10:41 AM] levi#6206
I think we could potentially muster the playerbase for a proper tour suspect

[11-Apr-20 10:41 AM] levi#6206
Idk how corona voting works but it’s in that tour rn

[11-Apr-20 10:41 AM] BurntZebra#8147
Why not just have some tour games reqs

[11-Apr-20 10:42 AM] BurntZebra#8147
Like x number of games played in lcpl or whatever other tour

[11-Apr-20 10:42 AM] Coconut#8762
hard to justify

[11-Apr-20 10:42 AM] levi#6206
what I have in mind is that you can use existing qualifications and also have minitours on top of it

[11-Apr-20 10:42 AM] Coconut#8762
are people not qualified because they didn't play SS

[11-Apr-20 10:42 AM] Coconut#8762
bc their team needed a BW

[11-Apr-20 10:42 AM] BurntZebra#8147
If you dont look at the people who would qualify beforehand

[11-Apr-20 10:42 AM] BurntZebra#8147
Then it can’t be truly biased

[11-Apr-20 10:43 AM] levi#6206
Well we don’t even need to limit it to this lcpl

[11-Apr-20 10:43 AM] Coconut#8762
and I'm against autoqualifiying people

[11-Apr-20 10:43 AM] BurntZebra#8147
Lcpl, snake, LC playoffs

[11-Apr-20 10:43 AM] Serene Grace#5243
hand picked councils are a meme for close votes

[11-Apr-20 10:43 AM] levi#6206
Since sms banlist has been constant for like a few months before its end

[11-Apr-20 10:43 AM] Coconut#8762
because it promotes elitism

[11-Apr-20 10:43 AM] Coconut#8762
it's a last resort.

[11-Apr-20 10:43 AM] BurntZebra#8147
Council denying the vull suspect before the gen ended

[11-Apr-20 10:43 AM] BurntZebra#8147
So elitist...

[11-Apr-20 10:44 AM] Coconut#8762
That's literally not the point I'm making

[11-Apr-20 10:44 AM] levi#6206
I think that sm is active enough that there should be additional means to qualify for the suspect

[11-Apr-20 10:44 AM] BurntZebra#8147
You can’t be against elitism in one scenario

[11-Apr-20 10:44 AM] Serene Grace#5243
most old gen councils and "suspects" turn into sham votes

[11-Apr-20 10:44 AM] levi#6206
But I don’t see how using existing tour results is elitist

[11-Apr-20 10:44 AM] BurntZebra#8147
But be in favor of it in another

[11-Apr-20 10:44 AM] Coconut#8762
There's a significant distinction

[11-Apr-20 10:44 AM] levi#6206
It’s already been done in like bw ou and stuff

[11-Apr-20 10:44 AM] BurntZebra#8147
Well you can but you’d be a hypocrite

[11-Apr-20 10:44 AM] Coconut#8762
They aren't mutually exclusive

[11-Apr-20 10:45 AM] Coconut#8762
like by these qualifications kingler wouldn't qualify to vote

[11-Apr-20 10:45 AM] levi#6206
He would

[11-Apr-20 10:45 AM] BurntZebra#8147
Kingler should have played more SM then

[11-Apr-20 10:45 AM] Coconut#8762
if we transposed it to SS

[11-Apr-20 10:45 AM] BurntZebra#8147
If you didn’t play SM for the last year of Sm existing

[11-Apr-20 10:45 AM] Coconut#8762
and said this LCPL, this snake and this LC playoffs

[11-Apr-20 10:45 AM] BurntZebra#8147
Then why would you have a say in what happens

[11-Apr-20 10:46 AM] Coconut#8762
because he's an active member of the community who is able to compete at a high level

[11-Apr-20 10:46 AM] Coconut#8762
and unquestionably would be able to attain reqs

[11-Apr-20 10:46 AM] BurntZebra#8147
That sounds very elitist to me

[11-Apr-20 10:46 AM] Coconut#8762
by the standards we currently have

[11-Apr-20 10:46 AM] Serene Grace#5243
council voting proves to be a meme yet again

[11-Apr-20 10:46 AM] Coconut#8762
so long as he put the effort in

[11-Apr-20 10:46 AM] levi#6206
I don’t understand why transposing it to ss matters

[11-Apr-20 10:46 AM] Coconut#8762
I'm just using an example

[11-Apr-20 10:46 AM] BurntZebra#8147
We could also take like top 4 of seasonals/ladder tour

[11-Apr-20 10:46 AM] levi#6206
He’s obviously qualified for sm

[11-Apr-20 10:47 AM] Coconut#8762
of someone who clearly would qualify

[11-Apr-20 10:47 AM] BurntZebra#8147
Makes no sense to include SS stuff

[11-Apr-20 10:47 AM] Coconut#8762
but wouldn't under our current restrictions

[11-Apr-20 10:47 AM] levi#6206
No it literally doesn’t matter bc we’re judging his sm qualifications by his sm exp not his ss exp

[11-Apr-20 10:47 AM] levi#6206
He shouldn’t autoqualify for ss as is, why would he

[11-Apr-20 10:47 AM] levi#6206
Actually wait he would qualify for ss anyways I think

[11-Apr-20 10:47 AM] levi#6206
From ekans

[11-Apr-20 10:48 AM] Coconut#8762
If we're using it solely in the basis for SM, then I'm not opposed

[11-Apr-20 10:48 AM] Coconut#8762
but I really really don't want this to become a regular thing

[11-Apr-20 10:48 AM] levi#6206
Using it solely is what I’m arguing against

[11-Apr-20 10:48 AM] levi#6206
It could be supplementary with 0 downside

[11-Apr-20 10:49 AM] Coconut#8762
I agree with that

[11-Apr-20 10:49 AM] Coconut#8762
but I'd want to see numbers and names

[11-Apr-20 10:49 AM] Coconut#8762
before we move forward with doing something like that

[11-Apr-20 10:50 AM] levi#6206
Let’s wait until after lcpl at minimum I think most of us agree on that

[11-Apr-20 10:50 AM] Coconut#8762
100% no one is trying to push a ban in 36 hours.

[11-Apr-20 10:50 AM] Serene Grace#5243
Any council vote would not necessarily be representative of the lc playerbase

[11-Apr-20 10:50 AM] Serene Grace#5243
eg drifloon

[11-Apr-20 10:50 AM] Coconut#8762
but the playerbase isn't playing SM LC

[11-Apr-20 10:51 AM] Serene Grace#5243
Any council vote would not necessarily be representative of the sm lc playerbase

[11-Apr-20 10:51 AM] Coconut#8762
the playerbase moved on

[11-Apr-20 10:51 AM] levi#6206
Drifloon suspect council would’ve been subjective

[11-Apr-20 10:52 AM] levi#6206
The proposed sm council would both be an open group and have more objectivity (obv the metrics are still chosen subjectively)

[11-Apr-20 10:52 AM] Serene Grace#5243
oras baton pass: Voted no ban in a public suspect at the time, banned by an old gen council

[11-Apr-20 10:52 AM] Coconut#8762
extremely low collateral ban based on metagame development from the current generation

[11-Apr-20 10:52 AM] BurntZebra#8147
Baton pass feels pretty different

[11-Apr-20 10:53 AM] Ninja#8225
Serene you cannot just

[11-Apr-20 10:53 AM] Ninja#8225
freeze old gens entirely

[redacted]

[11-Apr-20 10:53 AM] Ninja#8225
the metas dont freeze

[11-Apr-20 10:53 AM] Ninja#8225
so u cant then freeze on an action

[11-Apr-20 10:53 AM] BurntZebra#8147
OU metas aren’t frozen at all

[11-Apr-20 10:53 AM] Ninja#8225
bc ppl continue to innovate

[11-Apr-20 10:53 AM] Ninja#8225
they still evolve

[11-Apr-20 10:53 AM] BurntZebra#8147
What about lower gens

[11-Apr-20 10:53 AM] Ninja#8225
even if they aren't the main gen

[11-Apr-20 10:53 AM] Serene Grace#5243
old gen OU has hundreds of thousands of games a year

[11-Apr-20 10:53 AM] BurntZebra#8147
Like has gen 6 UU had any band

[11-Apr-20 10:53 AM] BurntZebra#8147
Bans*

[11-Apr-20 10:54 AM] Coconut#8762
innovation still happens

[11-Apr-20 10:54 AM] Coconut#8762
look at DPP

[11-Apr-20 10:55 AM] Coconut#8762
gastly ran sleep as a coverage move over boom sometimes in DPP

[11-Apr-20 10:55 AM] Coconut#8762
and sometimes meowth and glameow ran it

[11-Apr-20 10:55 AM] Coconut#8762
in 2017 nobody was running meowth and glameow

[11-Apr-20 10:56 AM] Coconut#8762
machop was the most popular dpp lead in 2017

[11-Apr-20 10:56 AM] Coconut#8762
gligar is the most popular lead in 2020

[11-Apr-20 10:57 AM] LilyAC#7887
freezing oldgens is often the play actually imo, because they dont get much play so they might not be able to stabilise after bans

[11-Apr-20 10:58 AM] LilyAC#7887
but idm banning web bc that wont have much of an effect

[11-Apr-20 10:59 AM] starmaster#8286
Just include all sm circuit qualifiers

[11-Apr-20 10:59 AM] starmaster#8286
From 2019

[11-Apr-20 10:59 AM] starmaster#8286
Too

[11-Apr-20 10:59 AM] Coconut#8762
It's something we can talk about a lot more

[11-Apr-20 10:59 AM] Coconut#8762
after this LCPL

[11-Apr-20 10:59 AM] Coconut#8762
I want to hone focus on Rufflet for the time being

[11-Apr-20 10:59 AM] starmaster#8286
that + lcpl + snake would be enough imo

[11-Apr-20 10:59 AM] levi#6206
The ruff suspects alr up

[11-Apr-20 11:00 AM] Ninja#8225
i do think we should rly have

[11-Apr-20 11:00 AM] Ninja#8225
a classic in circuit tournaments

[11-Apr-20 11:00 AM] Coconut#8762
Right but we should be having more discussion on that suspect

[11-Apr-20 11:00 AM] Ninja#8225
like other lower tiers do

[11-Apr-20 11:00 AM] Ninja#8225
so that old gens arent played literally once a year

[11-Apr-20 11:00 AM] Coconut#8762
Well I think the one that we ran as a forum tour

[11-Apr-20 11:00 AM] Coconut#8762
vastly exceeded my expectations

[11-Apr-20 11:01 AM] Coconut#8762
and would be very happy to see that expanded to a full tour

[11-Apr-20 11:01 AM] levi#6206
We ran sth pretty close to classic a couple months ago too

[11-Apr-20 11:01 AM] levi#6206
Lets do that again

[11-Apr-20 11:01 AM] levi#6206
Joltage is the goat

[11-Apr-20 11:02 AM] levi#6206
Also I think there’s generally a major diff between banning things that are overcentrqlizing versus uncompetitive

[11-Apr-20 11:02 AM] levi#6206
Bc the former affects the meta and every team in a rlly broad and encompassing way, banning vull would completely shift the meta

[11-Apr-20 11:03 AM] levi#6206
But things like bp arent teambuilding issues, they’re banworthy strictly for their effect in-game

[11-Apr-20 11:03 AM] levi#6206
I think I brought this up before but it might’ve been in oldgens

[11-Apr-20 11:04 AM] levi#6206
Webs forces mu issues in a p direct way so its meta effects should be super contained