[2:41 PM] Celirra: I am somewhat assuming that it is permitted based on how the OP is worded
[2:41 PM] clefairiel: Yeah, I went back and looked at it after I saw you messaged me
[2:41 PM] Celirra: For what it's worth, it was me who brought you up in the context, and I don't particularly like spreading info about other people but the person who said that about you didn't really intend it in a sketchy way
[2:42 PM] Celirra: I'm kinda trying to keep the people I reach out to at a minimum for now just based on... well, it's hard to say who's town and such
[2:42 PM] Celirra: But I consider it important to get ideas to at least 5 people in case I end up only talking to wolves then getting N0'd
[2:43 PM] clefairiel: The only person I have talked to privately is Wayward V something
[2:43 PM] clefairiel: the pusheen guy
[2:43 PM] Celirra: wv is fairly easy to read but he's also a quick learner so I wouldn't be surprised if his wolf game has been reinforced since last time
[2:43 PM] Celirra: I've talked to haku and somewhat charu privately
[2:44 PM] Celirra: as well as interactions with jrodd in tribe chat
[2:44 PM] Celirra: though, our tribe chat has been fairly lacklustre
[2:44 PM] clefairiel: I have played with sun fan, Charu, Haku, DaBackpack, reuben_tate, and Shado before
[2:44 PM] Celirra: Sunfan is someone I'm gonna touch base with asap
[2:44 PM] clefairiel: So mostly people on your tribe, I think
[2:44 PM] Celirra: I was just waiting for him to get into the game, he's been having rl stuff going on for now and don't want to swamp him
[2:45 PM] Celirra: Backpack and Shado somewhat worry me because of their strength and ability to make bigger moves
[2:45 PM] Celirra: Part of why I kinda prefer talking to you over those two is because you seem a bit more conservative in that way which eases my mind
[2:45 PM] clefairiel: I had a somewhat good feeling about Backpack's first messages in public, because I have been told that he really does not like to talk as much as a mafia
[2:46 PM] clefairiel: but I think that may be more the case later in the game
[2:46 PM] Celirra: dbp is readable mostly because he gets cocky when he does well
[2:46 PM] Celirra: so later on he'll be a bit easier to read
[2:48 PM] Celirra: Anywho I'm a bit apprehensive of jrodd, Haku somewhat disagrees and there's nothing concrete, but it's more just that it's a bit of doubt to start off with regarding him
[2:48 PM] Celirra: Notably him wanting control over the vigi, openly in thread, and also he kinda did a (admittedly inconsequential) slip of the tongue in tribe chat
[2:49 PM] Celirra: claiming # of wolves was revealed in signup thread basically, then claiming "well I thought I heard it somewhere" or something
[2:49 PM] Celirra: more just something that I'll be keeping in mind
[2:49 PM] clefairiel: I was wanting to ask somebody how many wolves there probably are. I was guessing 3 or 4
[2:50 PM] Celirra: It's in post #3
[2:50 PM] clefairiel: More likely 4
[2:50 PM] Celirra: Haku found that
[2:50 PM] Celirra: which is why I kinda like Haku as towny
[2:50 PM] Celirra: he's been trying to resolve ambiguity
[2:51 PM] Celirra: other than that not much has happened at all in our tribe chat, save for the soundwave joining then immediately leaving as I mentioned in thread
[2:53 PM] clefairiel: Sorry, Haku also started messaging me
[2:55 PM] clefairiel: I am not sure if that's inconsequential or not, regarding jrodd. Like, all things being equal, I would say not remembering which thread you saw that in is bad
[2:55 PM] clefairiel: Why do you think it is sus that he is trying to control the vigi?
[2:56 PM] clefairiel: I think it could be a good thing actually to try to purposefully give it to somebody we are trusting
[2:56 PM] Celirra: RE: what thread, I'd agree but his transparency regarding it and further reinforcement eased my mind slightly
[2:57 PM] Celirra: RE: controlling vigi, I think it could be but it didn't seem so much of a giving it to someone trusting, and rather implying that he could be trusted and nobody else could be. Something about trying to control and gain power or something
[2:57 PM] Celirra: I'm naturally adverse to people proclaiming themselves as lock towns like that implied
[2:59 PM] clefairiel: Well, it's more that his joking or not suggestion that he should get it made me think of that strategy
[3:00 PM] Celirra: I don't know if it was joking or not so I don't place a ton of stock in it, but he does seem very dead set on getting the vigi
[3:01 PM] clefairiel: I think of it as a bold move from him. I have never been a mafia in TWG but in similar games, I am personally less bold, in that type of role, but it probably depends on the individual
[3:01 PM] Celirra: personally I'm more for the immunity because I think it would be more beneficial for town to take than from wolves than taking vigi would be
[3:02 PM] Celirra: I likened the move when talking with Haku to being akin to something Xiz would do, so I can see that.
[3:05 PM] clefairiel: Soundwave, Nocturne, Charu, and flash flash all have about 50 messages in our tribe chat. wv has fewer but he's been plenty present in private and in the main thread. ben was quiet as mafia in my last game with him but I do not know if that is how he always is.
[3:06 PM] clefairiel: Probably the spiciest thing in chat is discussing whether it would be a good thing if everybody on our tribe was town or not and about strategies accounting for the fact that the wolves would know what is going on in the other tribe more than the town would (nobody actually brought up that we could talk 1 on 1 to others, don't think most people knew)
[3:07 PM] Celirra: Soundwave and Charu are in your tribe chat?
[3:08 PM] clefairiel: Yeah
[3:08 PM] Celirra: Hmm so that leaves two mystery non-joiners in ours then, interesting
[3:08 PM] Celirra: I dont know if reluctance to join is consequential at all
[3:08 PM] Celirra: I assume sunfan not joining one of them is due to his situation
[3:08 PM] Celirra: But that does leave two people, either 1 in each of ours or 0 in yours 2 in mine, who didn't join
[3:09 PM] Celirra: Also Nocturne = neee I assume
[3:09 PM] clefairiel: Umm, sorry, that is flash flash
[3:10 PM] Celirra: I think the wolf point is good to keep in mind
[3:10 PM] Celirra: I'm glad that's not an issue though
[3:10 PM] Celirra: The game is already fairly wolf-sided as is
[3:12 PM] Celirra: Thanks for filling me in
[3:12 PM] Celirra: I don't wanna really go too hard yet because of how early the game is, but I'll keep you fairly filled in if there's anything noteworthy
[3:13 PM] Celirra: The key takeaway definitely though I'd say is that Haku is my top town currently
[3:13 PM] Celirra: And Haku doesn't trust Neee really based on past experiences
[3:13 PM] clefairiel: I was a bit concerned about neee kind of downplaying his abilities, by what he was saying about feeling awkward
[3:14 PM] clefairiel: but I am waiting for him to respond
[3:15 PM] clefairiel: I wish I had better leans on my own tribe, but I do not actually
[3:17 PM] clefairiel: I sus flash flash slightly more than the others because of a comment he made about being uncertain about whether the goal should be to survive or to take out the sabouteurs
[3:17 PM] clefairiel: Now, from his comments, he obviously read and analysed both the sabouteur and superfan messages
[3:18 PM] clefairiel: But if you are looking at the superfan message first, and taking that in as your goal, I do not think it is ambiguous, that the point of the game is to get the saboteurs hanged
[3:18 PM] clefairiel: I heard that he gets modkilled a lot, so he may just sort himself out that way though?
[3:19 PM] clefairiel: Weirdly enough he just randomly called me a wolf, while I was writing that to you
[3:21 PM] clefairiel: I think you make a good point that this game is easier for the wolves, and for now you seem to be trying harder than I think you would need to to figure things out, so I am kind of just rambling at you and I hope that's OK
[3:34 PM] Celirra: Hey sorry was walking home from class, wanted to get back on PC so I can get you a proper reply
[3:34 PM] Celirra: I don't know neee well enough to really say either way admittedly
[3:35 PM] Celirra: I made a bit of a list when talking with Haku, not about leans but who I'd want to work with
[3:35 PM] Celirra: There were 3 people I don't think I can trust to work with particularly, notably nee and flashflash
[3:35 PM] Celirra: jrodd was the third but he was a * definitely
[3:36 PM] Celirra: Though Haku brought up a good point in that when flashflash does try and post well, he usually does so really really well
[3:36 PM] Celirra: but.... I don't know if that's enough to warrant really investing stock into him
[3:39 PM] Celirra: I don't really know why he'd call you a wolf, but I recall somewhat that he did that in the past a fair bit
[3:39 PM] Celirra: So I wouldn't put too much into it
[3:40 PM] Celirra: But yeah it's okay that you ramble, I think it's mutually beneficial, provided you're town and such which you seem to be
[3:42 PM] clefairiel: I am not sure how serious it was either, but was weird timing
[3:42 PM] Celirra: that said I'm gonna hold off a bit of stuff cause.. well it is a bit impossible to fully confirm you town for now, hope you dont take offense to it
[3:42 PM] clefairiel: No worries
[3:43 PM] Celirra: Nah I getcha, if it eases your mind at all because I think i can infer where your thought is going with that I don't even know what his discord is or anything
[3:43 PM] Celirra: it's a bit of an unfalsifyable claim
[3:53 PM] Celirra: #145 by flashflash is a bit... out of nowhere
[3:53 PM] Celirra: I wonder who he's talking to
[3:53 PM] Celirra: cause now I kinda get that vibe
[3:54 PM] clefairiel: he said in tribe chat that he hadnt read anything haku had said but that haku was town like 10 min ago
[3:54 PM] clefairiel: and now he's catching up on the thread
[3:55 PM] Celirra: fair enough
[3:55 PM] Celirra: Sorry for somewhat rambling to you now
[3:55 PM] Celirra: Haku also said that was just a meme
[4:03 PM] Celirra: so WV messaged me, asking
[3:55 PM] wv: Twig related question though
[3:55 PM] wv: Have you talked to star
[4:03 PM] Celirra: later saying he's interested in your approach to things
[4:04 PM] Celirra: and then avoiding further
[4:05 PM] clefairiel: Was that 10 min ago?
[4:05 PM] Celirra: yeah
[4:05 PM] clefairiel: Ok
[4:05 PM] Celirra: I'm EST
[4:05 PM] Celirra: so uh
[4:05 PM] Celirra: server +1
[4:06 PM] clefairiel: flash flash said he sussed you and I explained that I thought you seemed very tryhard and innocent and gave the example that you wrote a 3 paragraph intro message to me
[4:06 PM] clefairiel: i mean 'very' in terms of tryhard, but relatively innocent
[4:07 PM] clefairiel: so that's what prompted that
[4:09 PM] clefairiel: I think I trust WV though
[4:17 PM] Celirra: I see, fair enough
[8:59 PM] clefairiel: FFA for what it's worth
[8:59 PM] clefairiel: Posted in tribe chat about being annoyed
[8:59 PM] clefairiel: That you seemed more town
[8:59 PM] clefairiel: Because it seemed like it made the game harder
[9:00 PM] clefairiel: Which I thought was funny
[9:00 PM] clefairiel: I have trouble knowing what to think of him
[9:00 PM] clefairiel: I would be curious from the other tribe's perspective from the log
[9:04 PM] Celirra: I can't speak of it a ton, admittedly I haven't personally checked the log
[9:05 PM] Celirra: But that definitely is amusing
[9:05 PM] Celirra: I wonder what exactly it was that changed his perspective, because I don't think I said much in tribe
[9:05 PM] Celirra: I wonder if it's someone I talked to about him telling him stuff
[9:05 PM] clefairiel: He liked you cross checking jrodd
[9:06 PM] Celirra: Ah
[9:06 PM] Celirra: That's fair then, disregard my skepticism
[9:06 PM] Celirra: I'll read over logs later, it's a bit hard on mobile
January 20, 2018
[8:57 PM] Celirra: Hello friend
[8:57 PM] Celirra: I hope you are well
[8:58 PM] clefairiel: Hi, I am OK for the most part
[8:58 PM] clefairiel: I heard a rumor that you were going to spend time with Tokzic
[9:00 PM] Celirra: Yeah we're hanging out tomorrow
[9:00 PM] Celirra: It was planned before game
[9:00 PM] Celirra: But idk how much we can talk cause Raeko  (mellonxcollie) is there too
[9:01 PM] Celirra: And with her being host I kinda don't wanna cause potential... awkwardness if that makes sense
[9:02 PM] clefairiel: Ah, ok
[9:03 PM] clefairiel: I can understand that
[9:04 PM] Celirra: Is there anyone on ddr tribe apprehensive of tokzic?
[9:04 PM] Celirra: He was a contentious point for our tribe
[9:04 PM] Celirra: Very much notably with Vendetta
[9:10 PM] clefairiel: reuben has a negative impression of an early discussion from our tribe as a "waste of time" and feels like a wolf was involved in it, and tokzic was part of that discussion
[9:11 PM] clefairiel: The source of my townlean on tokzic has been debunked from what I hear (he has faked dumbtells before)
[9:11 PM] clefairiel: I believe Vendetta's more
[9:12 PM] clefairiel: From how you are typing it looks like you are on your phone so you probably do not want to read a whole pastebin, right?
[9:23 PM] Celirra: Apologies yeah I'm out for my mom's birthday
[9:24 PM] Celirra: I don't think I can read a pastebin currently anyways I'm a bit tipsy
[9:24 PM] clefairiel: Np
[9:24 PM] clefairiel: Sounds like your mom is more fun than mine, from that
[9:25 PM] Celirra: I'm only asking about tokzic cause some people have been fairly for the idea of shooting him
[9:25 PM] Celirra: Also I think all mom's have their pros and cons
[9:25 PM] Celirra: So I wouldn't say so objectively but that's a topic for another day
[9:29 PM] clefairiel: I do not dislike my mom, I just would not drink with her on her birthday
[9:32 PM] clefairiel: Basically, Knights thinks tokzic is the most town person in the game
[9:33 PM] clefairiel: And there were about 4 people online at the end of the day who explicitly did not want to lynch Tokzic but did not give a specific reason (WV, Flash Flash, Charu, Soundwave)
[9:45 PM] Celirra: With me it's basically if she's drinking I don't want to be sober
[9:45 PM] Celirra: That's interesting to hear I wonder why he thinks that
[9:45 PM] Celirra: I wonder why they didn't want him gone
[9:46 PM] Celirra: Its definitely not from reputation since iirc none have played with him
[9:46 PM] clefairiel: He has explained it a couple of times. He has played with Tokzic before, and found the manner of him susing Charu different from Tokzic's past wolf play
[9:46 PM] Celirra: Well except maybe char u
[9:46 PM] Celirra: Hmmm
[9:47 PM] Celirra: I hope I can be a fly on the wall sometime if nee and V ever talk
[9:48 PM] clefairiel: [05:59] theknightsofneeee: ordered list of where i'm at
[05:59] theknightsofneeee: atm
[05:59] theknightsofneeee: i really liked tokzic's recent stuff with charu
[05:59] Charu: The reason knight isn't saying anything about me is because I'm also partnered with  them
[06:00] Charu: Sorry chumps
[06:00] Soundwave: > shado is in here
thanks I wouldn't have guessed
[06:00] flashflash account: good list except for the part with me
[06:00] theknightsofneeee: felt nothing like his wolf game i saw him play (admittedly that was forum, this is discord) but i think he really felt inquisitive and interested in charu's alignment in a way he wouldn't be as a wolf
[9:49 PM] Celirra: I feel like you've told me but
[9:50 PM] Celirra: Do you feel more comfy with nee than at the start of last phase
[9:50 PM] Celirra: A lot of people are backing off on him
[9:50 PM] Celirra: And admittedly I'll need to look over that passage tomorrow cause I don't see much alignment indicative there
[9:52 PM] clefairiel: I was told that knights is a strong player so I am wary of his capabilities
[9:53 PM] Celirra: Oh shit just noticed freezin replaced V
[9:53 PM] clefairiel: I do not really have a strong feeling on him
[9:53 PM] Celirra: Sorry to interrupt
[9:53 PM] clefairiel: Ah yeah. It is good for me that I already feel strongly in V being a town, because I do not think I read Freezin well
[9:54 PM] Celirra: I have a bit of a meta on freezin
[9:54 PM] Celirra: In that he pressures REALLY hard as town
[9:54 PM] Celirra: And if he's confident as town hes like a very persistent police dog
[3:56 PM] Celirra: but he was also wolf when he did that in the past once in which he wouldn't answer anything
[3:56 PM] Celirra: make things awkward etc
[3:56 PM] Celirra: see like
[3:56 PM] Celirra: thats another double standard
[3:56 PM] Celirra: I didnt join either
[3:56 PM] Celirra: but I didnt get any shit
[3:56 PM] Celirra: I think some others also didnt join
[3:56 PM] Celirra: is there anyone specific who was leading that kinda thing RE: ben?
[3:57 PM] clefairiel: Well I think WV was the worst about it. He didn't engage well with the people who IMO were still trying to read Ben (Charu, Haku) and seemed more to be discredting Ben then trying to read him, and occasionally made awkward comments (IMO) about how he can't see ben as anything but a wolf
[3:59 PM] clefairiel: It's somewhat hazy because it was in the middle of the night
[3:59 PM] clefairiel: Soundwave seemed...definitely against Ben but more genuine/neutral
[4:00 PM] clefairiel: jrodd was quite talkative. He went through different past games of Ben, and felt that Ben played better in his most recent town game
[4:00 PM] clefairiel: Well, he started off Day 2 by analysing that Ben seemed more chill than in his last wolf game, which...was my read on Ben D0
[4:01 PM] clefairiel: (But then I felt like Ben failed to advance with his reads, but I was right initially >:)
[4:01 PM] clefairiel: And then in the call was analysing the town game and was leaning Ben as more sus
[4:02 PM] clefairiel: So the effort was there from jrodd but I am not entirely sure his analysis of the latter part was genuine
[4:02 PM] clefairiel: Umm
[4:03 PM] clefairiel: Freezin was on kind of in the middle of the call, and I recall him seeming very confident interacting in it, and was talking a lot to sun fan
[4:03 PM] clefairiel: But he did not really give new ideas
[4:03 PM] clefairiel: Beyond what was in the tribe discord
[4:03 PM] Celirra: Here's a weird question
[4:03 PM] Celirra: is someone saying
[4:03 PM] clefairiel: at least that I can remember
[4:03 PM] Celirra: "I think X but I'm not proud because it's angle-shooty"
[4:03 PM] Celirra: particularly... scummy to you
[4:03 PM] clefairiel: No
[4:04 PM] Celirra: kk
[4:04 PM] Celirra: freezin said that about uh
[4:04 PM] Celirra: someone being wolfy
[4:04 PM] clefairiel: I think Freezin said something about that
[4:04 PM] Celirra: iirc
[4:04 PM] clefairiel: WV
[4:04 PM] clefairiel: I thought it was interesting
[4:04 PM] Celirra: yeah thats what it was
[4:04 PM] clefairiel: I have never seen Freezin as a mafia though
[4:04 PM] clefairiel: I have no idea what the angle would be either
[4:05 PM] Celirra: thats the reason I have issue with it
[4:05 PM] Celirra: I have no clue what it is that could be angleshot
[4:05 PM] Celirra: unless it's pertaining to winning immunity?
[4:05 PM] Celirra: which is weird imo
[4:05 PM] Celirra: actually
[4:05 PM] Celirra: do you take anything of his
[4:05 PM] Celirra: "tetris mercenary for hire" thing
[4:05 PM] Celirra: but also not submitting a score of his own
[4:06 PM] clefairiel: I do not remember that
[4:06 PM] Celirra: idk if it was joking or not
[4:06 PM] Celirra: but he offered to give someone a score or something
[4:06 PM] Celirra: well first he asked if that was allowed
[4:07 PM] Celirra: search "mercenary" in the tribe chat
[4:07 PM] clefairiel: Oh right
[4:10 PM] clefairiel: If the angling comment has to do with the immunity then I think he is probably not a mafia with WV or I don't know why he would bring it up if no one else is
[4:10 PM] clefairiel: I would be interested to know why he did not submit himself when he is good at Tetris
[4:11 PM] Celirra: I mean my reasoning is because it broke and then I got pissed
[4:11 PM] Celirra: raeko saw that in person and felt bad which made me feel bad
[4:11 PM] Celirra: also for what its worth I wasnt drunk when belligerent yesterday
[4:11 PM] Celirra: or 2 days ago I forget
[4:12 PM] clefairiel: ok
[4:12 PM] Celirra: But yeah I'd be curious why he didn't care to
[4:12 PM] Celirra: in my mind trying is towny
[4:12 PM] Celirra: because it guarantees a wolf doesnt get it
[4:18 PM] Celirra: are there any kinda questions you'd have for me
[4:18 PM] Celirra: that I didnt get to answer the past couple days?
[4:18 PM] clefairiel: Why do you have reservations about DBP?
[4:19 PM] Celirra: I don't know what kind of work everyone sees him doing
[4:19 PM] Celirra: He's talked and such a bit
[4:19 PM] Celirra: but he hasn't seemed useful
[4:19 PM] Celirra: his tone and some of his comments are towny
[4:19 PM] Celirra: but it's the uh
[4:19 PM] Celirra: that same issue I had earlier regarding people giving WV a free pass
[4:20 PM] clefairiel: He seemed like he was trying to figure things out in voice call and was analysing connections with Ben
[4:21 PM] clefairiel: That is most of my direct experience with him besides the seer incident
[5:04 PM] clefairiel: I think the most sus thing about sun fan is that he seems to think things are going to be ok
[5:30 PM] Celirra: Does he really?
[5:30 PM] Celirra: I wasn't aware of this
[5:54 PM] clefairiel: [21:22] star_crossed: My main problem with him at the moment is a lack of justification for the difference in his leans on WV and Soundwave
[21:23] thesunfan: what difference?
[21:23] thesunfan: kill 'em both
[21:23] thesunfan: any order
[21:23] Jrodd: We could've before
[21:24] Jrodd: Or at least seered one :rolling_eyes:
[21:24] star_crossed: Order does matter if you are town
[21:24] Jrodd: #soundwaveSEERgate
[21:25] star_crossed: We do not have many chances left
[8:07 PM] clefairiel: [01:01] star_crossed: Oh, that reminds me
[01:01] star_crossed: How come you did not submit a score for Tetris, Freezin?
[01:05] Hakulyte: he got trolled by adblocker too
[01:06] Hakulyte: if you have it on, it skips the moment where it shows the final score
[01:06] Hakulyte: he mentioned that somewhere too in this chat
[01:07] star_crossed: Ok
[8:13 PM] Celirra: I'm not sure if I like sunfan's extreme confidence
January 25, 2018
[6:03 PM] clefairiel: im votin for wv
[6:08 PM] Celirra: why?
[6:12 PM] clefairiel: His behavior right before Ben died makes me think he knew Ben was going to flip town
[6:14 PM] clefairiel: There was some rambling aloud about how he couldn't see Ben as anything but a mafia but it was kind of emotionless, and he pretty much brushed off anyone that was still trying to assess Ben
[6:15 PM] clefairiel: And between him and T Force I have a better feeling about T Force even though he is doing fuck all, unfortunately it is also his town play to do fuck all
[6:17 PM] clefairiel: I suppose both T and WV could be mafia, I don't really remember if there is anything specific between them
[6:22 PM] Celirra: so tbh
[6:22 PM] Celirra: I think wv is probably wolf
[6:23 PM] Celirra: but I'm not 100% despite how I was a couple days ago
[6:23 PM] Celirra: and I worry a wv wolf wouldn't really help us any anyways
[6:23 PM] Celirra: and we'd need to take a risk next phase
[6:23 PM] Celirra: and if he's a town then we're fucked
[6:23 PM] Celirra: cause we'd need that risk
[6:23 PM] Celirra: we almost need a wolf that gives us good ifno
[6:24 PM] Celirra: me and haku tried an exercise
[6:24 PM] Celirra: arbitrarily chose 4 people
[6:24 PM] Celirra: looked for ties
[6:24 PM] Celirra: any who couldnt be wolf based on ties
[6:24 PM] Celirra: we eliminated from pool
[6:25 PM] Celirra: we kinda gave up a bit trying to find someone to replace
[6:25 PM] Celirra: it settled at nee, jrodd, sunfan, +1, after eliminating dbp and freezin based on associations kinda
[6:26 PM] Celirra: thats not to say it's where either of our thoughts are mind you...
[6:26 PM] Celirra: but there's no evidence that puts them as w/w/t or t/t/w or whatever if that makes sense
[6:26 PM] Celirra: like... if wv flips wolf
[6:26 PM] Celirra: would it help you solve?
[6:26 PM] Celirra: if he flips town, would it help you solve?
[6:26 PM] Celirra: I dont like the mindset
[6:26 PM] Celirra: but
[6:26 PM] Celirra: its almost... important right now I feel
[6:27 PM] Celirra: cause we have 0
[6:27 PM] Celirra: info
[6:39 PM] clefairiel: If he flips town it makes sun fan look better to me
[6:39 PM] clefairiel: And freezin worse
[6:39 PM] clefairiel: Soundwave worse
[6:40 PM] clefairiel: Not really sure what to do with knights in general
[6:40 PM] Celirra: I'm very curious to hear why
[6:40 PM] Celirra: sunfan I can somewhat agree but it's not clearing
[6:41 PM] clefairiel: Although notably jrodd wanted to clear sun fan if WV flipped mafia because of a voice call thing from itg
[6:42 PM] clefairiel: Freezin used to be vendetta
[6:43 PM] clefairiel: Between freezin's comment on WV as 100% mafia for something he couldn't talk about
[6:43 PM] clefairiel: And vendetta potentially protecting Soundwave with the Tokzic counter
[6:44 PM] clefairiel: You can sell me on knights today
[6:46 PM] clefairiel: It's been really physically and mentally screwing me up to try to adjust my sleep schedule to server time
[6:46 PM] clefairiel: So i feel torn about whether to stay up
[6:47 PM] clefairiel: I trust you more than jrodd but i don't actually sus him
[6:55 PM] Celirra: I don't trust jrodd
[6:55 PM] Celirra: you could even say I do sus him
[6:55 PM] Celirra: but yeah I didn't like that comment by freezin either
[6:55 PM] Celirra: I don't quite know if I fault V for the tokzic encounter though
[6:57 PM] clefairiel: I probably should trust him less
[6:58 PM] clefairiel: Considering how I feel about t force
[6:58 PM] clefairiel: I dunno
[6:59 PM] clefairiel: There is a dichotomy between T and one or both of sun/jrodd
[7:00 PM] clefairiel: I'm just confused by DBP and Freezin feeling so strongly about sun because I don't see it
[7:00 PM] clefairiel: Jrodd/Freezin/WV/Knights (?)
[7:01 PM] clefairiel: Though Freezin has been fairly positive toward sound
[7:01 PM] clefairiel: If I'm remembering
[7:01 PM] clefairiel: I dunno
[7:03 PM] clefairiel: I guess what i mean by that I don't sus jrodd
[7:03 PM] clefairiel: Is that I could not make a case on why he is a mafia and believe I am right for the right reasons
[7:06 PM] Celirra: I forget, do they feel strongly that sun is town or that he's wolf
[7:06 PM] clefairiel: Town
[7:06 PM] Celirra: I too am confused then
[7:06 PM] clefairiel: Both top town read him
[8:07 PM] clefairiel: But have preferred lynches in front of each other
[8:07 PM] Celirra: see what he says I'm curious
[8:07 PM] Celirra: that is interesting
[8:08 PM] Celirra: and its why I'm actually gonna try to find out
[8:08 PM] clefairiel: Sound isn't with sun tho
[8:08 PM] clefairiel: In my mind
[8:08 PM] Celirra: I think sun is with either wv or sound or neee by virtue of his shitty seer
[8:09 PM] Celirra: in that order kinda
[8:09 PM] Celirra: based on that one instance
[8:09 PM] Celirra: not as a whole
[8:09 PM] clefairiel: They're too weird and complicated
[8:09 PM] clefairiel: Sound and sun
[8:09 PM] Celirra: complicated how?
[8:09 PM] clefairiel: Uhhh
[8:09 PM] Celirra: complicated is good pair clearing
[8:10 PM] clefairiel: So, Sound was talking to Haku and jumped to a townread on Sun because Haku said sun was "probably" doing circle stuff
[8:11 PM] clefairiel: Then later Sound tried to reach out to Sound and Sound was complaining about sun being aloof
[8:11 PM] clefairiel: Sun fan was perfectly fine killing sound d0
[8:11 PM] clefairiel: And didn't seem to take advantage of Tokzic wagon
[8:11 PM] clefairiel: Uhhh
[8:12 PM] clefairiel: I think the first bit with Soundwave is too wolfy to both be wolves I guess
[8:12 PM] clefairiel: It's just so inane
[8:13 PM] Celirra: ok yeah I see what you mean
[8:13 PM] Celirra: so with that at mind
[8:13 PM] Celirra: where are we at now
[8:13 PM] clefairiel: So much of sound's later content is trying to figure sun out or look like it
[8:14 PM] clefairiel: Well I'm wondering if jrodd/knights/Sound who is their 4th
[8:14 PM] clefairiel: DBP or Freezin?
[8:14 PM] clefairiel: I don't believe for a sec I'm the only town left on ddr
[8:15 PM] Celirra: well
[8:15 PM] Celirra: if what I said earlier
[8:15 PM] Celirra: with the w/w/t thing
[8:15 PM] Celirra: is true
[8:15 PM] Celirra: the 4th is freezin
[8:15 PM] clefairiel: Freezin and dbp are both in knights' circle
[8:15 PM] clefairiel: Of trust
[8:15 PM] Celirra: actually
[8:16 PM] clefairiel: Currently
[8:16 PM] Celirra: we would need to replace jrodd
[8:16 PM] Celirra: if the aligned with sunfan thing is true
[8:16 PM] Celirra: knights/sound/dbp/freezin
[8:16 PM] Celirra: ?
[8:16 PM] clefairiel: I don't think jrodd /has/ to be with sun just that he could be
[8:16 PM] Celirra: I think it is
[8:16 PM] Celirra: very likely
[8:16 PM] Celirra: sunfan defended jrodd extremely strongly
[8:17 PM] Celirra: hey whats with the
[8:17 PM] Celirra: dbp on jrodd thing
[8:17 PM] clefairiel: Dbp has like 3 paragraphs on why jrodd is a wolf
[8:17 PM] clefairiel: In his recent leans
[8:18 PM] Celirra: [8:07 PM] Celirra: hi
[8:07 PM] Celirra: how do you feel about knightsofneeeee
NEW MESSAGES
[8:17 PM] Soundwave: Especially today, I feel like they're getting complacent with the game. Seems to me like they're pretty set on a wolf dying (under impression they're on me but I won't speak for them) and coasting on that. A town can't do that. Even if they were 100% confident on a wolf kill this day, there's still 3 more out there. But a wolf can if they're lynching me, because they only have to dupe town one more time to win.
[8:18 PM] Celirra: not to interject
[8:18 PM] Celirra: but ok I'll go look over those again
[8:18 PM] Celirra: must've missed
[8:19 PM] clefairiel: ... If knights is voting sound I missed that completely
[8:21 PM] Celirra: hey
[8:21 PM] Celirra: sunfan is acting towny
[8:21 PM] Celirra: in pm's
[8:21 PM] clefairiel: How so
[8:21 PM] Celirra: https://pastebin.com/QEMVGh0c
Pastebin
8:02 PM] Celirra: do me a favour? [8:02 PM] thesunfan: depending [8:02 PM] Cel - Pastebin.com

[8:21 PM] Celirra: there was some stuff before that
[8:21 PM] Celirra: but not terribly good
[8:21 PM] Celirra: other than strong defense of jrodd
[8:22 PM] Celirra: good = useful
[8:28 PM] Celirra: I think soundwave and neee are unaligned
[8:28 PM] Celirra: [8:24 PM] Soundwave: don't think nee has been pushing me but scum me is a pretty popular position and I guess I could like look and cite nee having an antag attitude towards me but the read isn't based on precisely who nee is voting for, only that nee isn't still trying to develop reads or find a lock pair or something that would turn the tide from imminent parity
[8:27 PM] Soundwave: 8:31 AM] theknightsofneeee: @Soundwave thats some nice shade you're throwing me itt, but if you actually read anything that i've said all game, i've explained those reads time and time again

Here's some juicy complacency. Knights is somehow exempt from actually reiterating their reads even if they haven't changed (which hopefully they have) question mark?
[8:28 PM] clefairiel: Ok
[8:29 PM] clefairiel: Hmm
[8:34 PM] clefairiel: Soundwave is town I think
[8:44 PM] clefairiel: Or has strong potential to be
[8:46 PM] clefairiel: I'm going in 15
[8:47 PM] clefairiel: ...i was going to change my vote to knights but i feel nauseous thinking of it
[8:47 PM] clefairiel: I wonder why
[8:47 PM] Celirra: who's your vote on again?
[8:47 PM] Celirra: tforce?
[8:47 PM] clefairiel: Wv
[8:47 PM] Celirra: kk
[8:47 PM] Celirra: I wonder why you feel uneasy
[8:48 PM] Celirra: I'll keep it in mind thanks for helping me sort thoughts
[8:48 PM] clefairiel: It may just be because it's late
[8:49 PM] clefairiel: Well and lacking confidence is pretty usual for me
[8:49 PM] clefairiel: In life
[8:49 PM] Celirra: I feel you on that
[8:49 PM] Celirra: if you're gonna park vote on wv
[8:49 PM] Celirra: then I dont think I have a lot of other choice
[8:50 PM] clefairiel: It's on knights now
[8:54 PM] Celirra: kk
[8:54 PM] Celirra: time zone is definitely unfortunate
[8:54 PM] Celirra: you may want to post it somewhere
[8:54 PM] Celirra: idk
[8:55 PM] clefairiel: Is it bad that I prefer to just tell you
[8:55 PM] Celirra: I'm curious why me
[8:55 PM] Celirra: I don't think I am nor should be strong town to you
[8:55 PM] Celirra: though I am to a lot of people it seems
[8:56 PM] Celirra: Want me to keep it to myself
[8:56 PM] Celirra: or should I use it for sway
[8:57 PM] clefairiel: The game state
[8:57 PM] clefairiel: Seems like mafia team is afraid to read you as a mafia basically
[8:58 PM] clefairiel: And I find your play around how you're communicating genuine
[8:59 PM] clefairiel: Also I feel like I played with the possibility of you being a mafia and it didn't lead me anywhere
[8:59 PM] clefairiel: So shrug
[9:05 PM] Celirra: Fair enough
[9:05 PM] Celirra: Never considered that first point
[9:06 PM] clefairiel: I would guess you or Haku die next (Well maybe not due to doctor)
[9:06 PM] clefairiel: I dunno though
[9:07 PM] Celirra: I was going to guess you
[9:07 PM] Celirra: I'd say one of us 3 for sure
[9:07 PM] clefairiel: I would be happier that way honestly
[9:08 PM] Celirra: I'm gonna send you full logs before this night phase ends
[9:08 PM] Celirra: in case I do
[9:08 PM] Celirra: actually I'll just post
[9:08 PM] Celirra: thats probably best
[9:09 PM] clefairiel: Yeah unless you have some specific thing you're worried of, public simpler I think
[9:16 PM] Celirra: yeah idk why I forgot about it
[11:45 PM] Celirra: talk to me before one of us dies
[11:45 PM] Celirra: need to go over what you missed
January 26, 2018
[12:03 AM] Celirra: sunfan says neee is never wolf
[12:03 AM] Celirra: [12:02 AM] thesunfan: dog
[12:03 AM] thesunfan: he's never a wolf
[12:03 AM] thesunfan: stop it
[12:03 AM] Celirra: re: neee
[5:53 AM] clefairiel: What
[5:54 AM] clefairiel: Sounds like bs
[6:29 AM] clefairiel: Er, that looks like it is about jrodd actually
[7:03 AM] clefairiel: What do you think of the slight momentum against Haku?
[8:01 AM] Celirra: Was it jrodd? I'l have to go back and look
[8:01 AM] Celirra: I think the haku ordeal seems a bit silly
[8:02 AM] Celirra: votes tallied: first was about 1hr before eod, second was about 40mins before iirc
[8:02 AM] Celirra: given votes by:
tforce - sound
star - neee
haku - neee
dbp - jrodd
jrodd - tforce
freezin - wv
wv - jrodd
sunfan - tforce
soundwave - tforce
cel - neee

wave 2:
jrodd - tforce
tforce - neee
sound - tforce
sunfan - tforce
wv - neee
star - neee
haku - neee
dbp - neee
cel - neee
[8:03 AM] Celirra: then sunfan messaged people telling them to go tforce
[8:03 AM] Celirra: notably dbp
[8:03 AM] Celirra: end results I believe, if nobody is lying, is me, you, haku, tforce on neeee, rest on tforce
[8:05 AM] clefairiel: I thought WV said he was on tforce
[8:05 AM] Celirra: the wave 2 part
[8:05 AM] Celirra: was a tally about 40 min before eod
[8:05 AM] Celirra: to see where everyone's votes were at
[8:05 AM] Celirra: at that time he was on neeee
[8:05 AM] clefairiel: Oh sorry
[8:06 AM] Celirra: [10:19 PM] wv: neeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
[8:07 AM] Celirra: also just for the sake of info
[8:07 AM] Celirra: if you can do a reply for my post in thread
[8:07 AM] Celirra: that'd be cool
[8:17 AM] clefairiel: Sure
[8:46 AM] Celirra: does the 4 of
[8:46 AM] Celirra: jrodd, sun, neee, sound
[8:46 AM] Celirra: make sense
[8:46 AM] Celirra: jrodd & sun actively tried to get people to swap from neee to tforce
[8:46 AM] Celirra: but in pms
[8:47 AM] Celirra: sound had shitty reasoning imo for t > nee
[8:47 AM] Celirra: 8:07 PM] Celirra: hi
[8:07 PM] Celirra: how do you feel about knightsofneeeee
[8:17 PM] Soundwave: Especially today, I feel like they're getting complacent with the game. Seems to me like they're pretty set on a wolf dying (under impression they're on me but I won't speak for them) and coasting on that. A town can't do that. Even if they were 100% confident on a wolf kill this day, there's still 3 more out there. But a wolf can if they're lynching me, because they only have to dupe town one more time to win.
[8:19 PM] Celirra: do you have a citation on the
[8:19 PM] Celirra: neee trying to lynch you thing
[8:24 PM] Soundwave: don't think nee has been pushing me but scum me is a pretty popular position and I guess I could like look and cite nee having an antag attitude towards me but the read isn't based on precisely who nee is voting for, only that nee isn't still trying to develop reads or find a lock pair or something that would turn the tide from imminent parity
[8:27 PM] Soundwave: 8:31 AM] theknightsofneeee: @Soundwave thats some nice shade you're throwing me itt, but if you actually read anything that i've said all game, i've explained those reads time and time again

Here's some juicy complacency. Knights is somehow exempt from actually reiterating their reads even if they haven't changed (which hopefully they have) question mark?
[8:47 AM] Celirra: [8:29 PM] Soundwave: Didn't actually see this the first time reading through start of day but does a town say this: [9:28 PM] theknightsofneeee: part of me is worried that sunfan is actually a villager and thinks i'm a wolf
[9:29 PM] theknightsofneeee: and part of me is like 'fuck it, he's probably just a wolf lol'
[8:29 PM] Celirra: sunfan said that about me
[8:29 PM] Celirra: tbf
[8:29 PM] Celirra: along the lines of
[8:29 PM] Celirra: him being scared I think he's town and get him lynched
[10:02 PM] Soundwave: Tforce
[10:02 PM] Celirra: ty
[10:17 PM] Soundwave: Second choice is neee. Between the two still on tforce obv
[10:19 PM] Celirra: ty
[8:48 AM] clefairiel: You were trying to talk me into Sound/knee unaligned when I had them quite possibly aligned yesterday haha
[8:48 AM] Celirra: It's really heavily due to sound's EoD
[8:48 AM] Celirra: and because
[8:49 AM] Celirra: I think I like freezin and dbp
[8:49 AM] Celirra: call it poe
[8:49 AM] Celirra: have log of sunfan talking freezin into neee
[8:49 AM] Celirra: and I think
[8:49 AM] Celirra: it's t/w
[8:49 AM] Celirra: definitely not w/w
[8:51 AM] clefairiel: https://pastebin.com/FEc4zjq7
Pastebin
Unaligned? - Soundwave - Pastebin.com

[8:51 AM] Celirra: ...I forgot about that
[8:52 AM] clefairiel: But I feel like I'm wrong on something
[8:52 AM] clefairiel: But I think it may be more likely in my DDR dynamic reads, than Soundwave/sun fan specifically
[8:53 AM] Celirra: so I think
[8:53 AM] Celirra: that is fair
[8:53 AM] Celirra: but
[8:53 AM] Celirra: I like wv's EoD and start of night more than sound's
[8:53 AM] Celirra: poe on that
[8:53 AM] clefairiel: Hmm
[8:54 AM] Celirra: in my mind
[8:54 AM] Celirra: jrodd is always wolf
[8:54 AM] Celirra: there's 2 worlds in my mind
[8:54 AM] Celirra: jrodd/sunfan/nee/(wv/sound)
[8:55 AM] Celirra: jrodd/freezin/dbp/nee
[8:55 AM] Celirra: but
[8:55 AM] Celirra: world 2 is crumbling
[8:55 AM] Celirra: due to eod with dbp/sunfan
[8:55 AM] Celirra: uh
[8:55 AM] Celirra: earlier I said sunfan talking freezin into neee
[8:55 AM] Celirra: I meant dbp not freezin
[8:56 AM] clefairiel: DBP/sun fan just does not feel like what is happening
[8:56 AM] clefairiel: Why can't freezin be in the first world though
[8:56 AM] Celirra: in place of wv/sound?
[8:56 AM] clefairiel: You have sun/freezin unaligned I presume
[8:56 AM] Celirra: yes
[8:57 AM] Celirra: It's especially
[8:57 AM] Celirra: nee/freezin/sunfan are w/w/t in my mind
[8:57 AM] Celirra: from earlier
[8:57 AM] Celirra: if you remember
[8:57 AM] Celirra: search w/w/t in this convo if you want to remind
[8:58 AM] clefairiel: Oh right
[8:58 AM] Celirra: anyways
[8:58 AM] Celirra: I've got an interview in 50min
[8:58 AM] Celirra: and I dont wanna sway your thoughts before answering my questions too much tbh
[8:58 AM] Celirra: feel like I already have a bunch
[8:59 AM] Celirra: hope you get that before end of night so we can talk before potential killing
[8:59 AM] Celirra: also I'm scared we've already lost due to HII
[8:59 AM] Celirra: esp with the new hint if that did anything
[8:59 AM] clefairiel: ...Is there a new hint?
[9:00 AM] Celirra: check newest roundbox post in tribe discord
[9:06 AM] clefairiel: Good luck with the interview
[9:26 AM] Celirra: Thanks!
[4:19 PM] Celirra: I really didnt like sunfan's response to my thing
[4:19 PM] clefairiel: Is Haku a wolf for the thing
[4:20 PM] Celirra: honestly
[4:20 PM] Celirra: it has credence
[4:20 PM] clefairiel: I don't see why he admits it
[4:20 PM] clefairiel: As a wolf
[4:20 PM] Celirra: but I really struggle seeing him as wolf
[4:20 PM] clefairiel: But i am not sure
[4:20 PM] clefairiel: Anymore
[4:21 PM] clefairiel: If they kill you i will try not to lose my mind
[4:21 PM] Celirra: likewise for if they kill me for you
[4:21 PM] Celirra: I'll try to give you enough info to help you
[4:22 PM] Celirra: I think anyone who's so dead set on one person
[4:22 PM] Celirra: is very scummy
[4:22 PM] Celirra: given the setup
[4:22 PM] Celirra: + lylo
[4:22 PM] Celirra: I also really really dont think the shift onto haku feels organic
[4:27 PM] clefairiel: Sun fan has a nice story there I guess
[4:28 PM] clefairiel: I feel like he would fake it though even if some of those feelings are true
[4:29 PM] Celirra: He's faked feelings in twg before
[4:29 PM] Celirra: if anything he's more dramatic when faking
[4:29 PM] Celirra: I have a
[4:29 PM] Celirra: weird theory
[4:29 PM] Celirra: find out who sunfan has called dog
[4:30 PM] Celirra: if there's certain people he hasn't called "dog" this game
[4:30 PM] Celirra: and enough to make a convincing argument with him as a 4th
[4:30 PM] Celirra: bet those 4 are W
[4:30 PM] clefairiel: Ok
[4:30 PM] Celirra: if he's called everyone dog hes probably town
[4:30 PM] clefairiel: Well he hasn't called me dog haha
[4:30 PM] Celirra: thats the dumbest theory I've ever had
[4:31 PM] Celirra: it'd require a bit of inquisition
[4:31 PM] clefairiel: But I feel people are more likely to say that to another guy
[4:36 PM] Celirra: this is a fair point
[4:41 PM] clefairiel: He has said it to dbp like 3 times
[4:42 PM] clefairiel: You once I think
[4:42 PM] clefairiel: And Freezin and knights once
[4:42 PM] clefairiel: In beach at least
[5:09 PM] Celirra: he's said it to me a lot in pms
[5:30 PM] Celirra: hey
[5:30 PM] Celirra: the haku wagon
[5:30 PM] Celirra: what if it's wolves trying to force a split vote between town
[5:30 PM] Celirra: something about it just
[5:30 PM] Celirra: really really rubs me wrong
[5:32 PM] clefairiel: I don't know who the counter is
[5:32 PM] clefairiel: But could be
[5:35 PM] Celirra: I'm worried even if I try to build a counter on jrodd
[5:35 PM] Celirra: there's gonna be too much resistance
[5:35 PM] Celirra: neee would be the easiest counter imo
[5:35 PM] Celirra: as much as I think jrodd is wolf
[5:36 PM] Celirra: it seems like there's a core who would defend him to the death
[5:36 PM] Celirra: probably better than I could push
[6:05 PM] clefairiel: I guess knights is the obvious counter unfortunately
[6:54 PM] Celirra: sunfan knew dbp had doc
[6:54 PM] Celirra: before that thing came out in chat
[6:56 PM] Celirra: [6:39 PM] Celirra: me or star are probably getting nk'd imo
[6:39 PM] thesunfan: you're wrong
[6:39 PM] Celirra: kk
[6:39 PM] thesunfan: dbp /should/ always die
[6:39 PM] thesunfan: because he has the doc save
[6:39 PM] thesunfan: wolves should always kill him otherwise they risk not having a nightkill go through
[6:56 PM] Celirra: and unless I missed it
[6:56 PM] Celirra: the thing came out in the tribe discord
[6:56 PM] Celirra: at 6:43
[6:57 PM] clefairiel: Dbp claimed it
[6:57 PM] Celirra: oh
[6:57 PM] Celirra: my b
[10:10 PM] clefairiel: do we have anything ruling out knights/freezin/sound/dbp besides dbp seeming more town than sun
[10:11 PM] Celirra: nothing comes to mind honestly
[10:11 PM] Celirra: But I can't see dbp as wolf
[10:12 PM] Celirra: I can't think of anything incriminating on the notion of it
[10:12 PM] Celirra: other than just
[10:12 PM] Celirra: dbp is towny
[10:12 PM] clefairiel: yeah
[10:12 PM] Celirra: what about knights/freezin/sound/jrodd
[10:12 PM] Celirra: or is jrodd clear
[10:12 PM] Celirra: cause of doc
[10:12 PM] clefairiel: uhh
[10:13 PM] clefairiel: sun fan strongly thinks jrodd wouldn't be so rude as a mafia ?
[10:13 PM] Celirra: He gave me that too
[10:20 PM] clefairiel: I'm trying to answer question 2
[10:49 PM] clefairiel: https://pastebin.com/bN8wHqrT
Pastebin
**6: Who do you think is controlling the game currently, or has been in the past - Pastebin.com

[10:50 PM] Celirra: thanks!