#ActM Log Mar 03

Session Start: Mon Mar 03 10:24:08 2014
Session Ident: #ActM
03[10:24] * Now talking in #ActM
03[10:24] * Topic is 'ActiveMining || Civil discussion welcome, trolls will be banned || Official announcements thread: http://bit.ly/Md6MzZ'
03[10:24] * Set by toastee!toastee@gateway/shell/elitebnc/x-lyifydygeebxsezw on Wed Feb 12 15:41:57
[10:30] <@kleeck> Slow climb on the btc price.
03[10:38] * jimmyjazz1 (6d98fd79@gateway/web/freenode/ip.109.152.253.121) has joined #ActM
[10:47] <@kleeck> jimmyjazz1 - what up?
[10:48] <jimmyjazz1> Not alot Kleeck just hoping Ken can actually produce the 28nm
[10:48] <@kleeck> Yeah man.
[10:49] <jimmyjazz1> He will probably choose to chnage again. Do you know the timeline for the 28
[10:50] <jimmyjazz1> estimated
02[10:50] * Sebastan ([email protected]) Quit (Quit: Leaving.)
[10:50] <@kleeck> If it's the same as was announced, Q3.
[10:50] <@kleeck> My hope is that he can somehow accelerate the timeline.
[10:51] <jimmyjazz1> Yes im hoping thats the 'good news' but who knows.
[10:53] <@kleeck> Only Ken, i guess. And whoever Bargraphics talked with last evening.
[10:53] <jimmyjazz1> whats that gossip.
[10:56] <@kleeck> Bargraphics discussed with a "trusted source" the halting of the 55nm project and was told that there would be bullish news incoming.
[10:56] <@kleeck> This was before Ken stated that there would be good news.
[10:57] <jimmyjazz1> ok lets hope so. who knows on this never ending ride.
[10:57] <jimmyjazz1> I need to get myself some contacts.
[11:00] <@VinceSamios> It's possible he upgraded the UMC slot to the 28nm chip
[11:04] <jimmyjazz1> That would be nice.
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[13:09] <@toastee> i dont know why we couldnt just have kept going with the 55nm chips and then just cut them in half
[13:10] <@toastee> bam. 28nm chips
[13:10] <@kleeck> lol
[13:10] <@kleeck> Amazing1
[13:10] <@kleeck> Bargraphics: any word from PA regarding the 28nm progress?
[13:14] <drawingthesun> PA?
[13:14] <@kleeck> People's ASIC
[13:15] <drawingthesun> hmmmm
[13:15] <drawingthesun> Did we ever find out how much they cost?
[13:15] <drawingthesun> Can't Ken put a PA engineer onto chat,
[13:15] <drawingthesun> who knows about MH and GH
[13:28] <@auto2nr1> toastee i feel the sam way
[13:28] <@auto2nr1> same
[13:28] <@auto2nr1> i wanted us to have something solid
[13:28] <@auto2nr1> then move onto the 28nm
[13:29] <@toastee> haha i was kidding about cutting them in half obviously
[13:29] <@toastee> but getting SOMETHING to market would have been nice
[13:29] <@toastee> i get that the 55nm project was just supposed to be like...a value add
[13:30] <@toastee> but it seems to have now done us more harm than good
[13:30] <@toastee> though i acknowledge that this industry is EXTREMELY volatile and snap decisions need to be made to protect the business
[13:30] <@toastee> im not panicking really, it just looks bad on actm
[13:47] <@VinceSamios> Ken can't pull triggers
[13:47] <@VinceSamios> he dumped nextreme3 when BTC price was $100, and a month later it was $1000
[13:48] <@kleeck> I was just discussing this...
[13:48] <@kleeck> That jump from 100 to 1000 saved a number of mining operations
[13:49] <@kleeck> at some point you believe in BTC and you move ahead.
[13:49] <drawingthesun> fussing over the usd price is the worst thing.
[13:49] <@kleeck> I suspect the reason Ken gave the reporter were not entirely correct.
[13:50] <@kleeck> But we'll have to see what he says.
02[13:50] * @GJPMiningco ([email protected]) Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
[13:50] <drawingthesun> I had a PM with Ken a long time ago, trying to explain the math why we should all the miners now for x amount of bitcoin. Ken said no, because the miners would bring in more money in usd based on price increase. It took me several replies showing how if we sold and held those bitcoin we would have more usd based on the price increase.
[13:50] <drawingthesun> since then I have lost a lot of faith in Ken's capability.
[13:51] <drawingthesun> it's a shame.
[13:51] <drawingthesun> *why we should sell the miners (first line mistake on my post above)
[13:52] <drawingthesun> Someone yesterday said Ken thinks way too much in terms of usd. I agree and it's hurting us.
[13:52] <@kleeck> Keep in mind that he has to pay the bills.
[13:52] <drawingthesun> Only one thing matters, make as much btc as possible no matter what, once it hits $10,000 we will be laughing.
[13:52] <@kleeck> So he has to be minded that way to an extent.
[13:53] <drawingthesun> The bills can't be causing that much hassel, the premises is at his house no?
[13:53] <drawingthesun> and has one office
[13:53] <@kleeck> VMC HQ.
[13:53] <@kleeck> AKA the Garage.
[13:53] <@kleeck> It's a building unto itself, I believe.\
[13:54] <@kleeck> But he will have to worry about the data center payments.
[13:54] <drawingthesun> kleeck, datacenter payments? yeah when we are mining, but at this rate we will invent a new miner every 4 months until we run out of money.
[13:54] <drawingthesun> I will be so so happy if we have datacenter payments to worry about
[13:55] <drawingthesun> it would mean we are mining finally
[13:55] <@kleeck> My point is that he is planning to mine on machines. That will cost fiat so he HAS to worry about the $:BTC price.
[13:55] <@kleeck> Whether we make it to that stage is up to debate.
[13:55] <drawingthesun> kleeck, if he sold the miners at that point I told him too, he can hold that bitcoin and sell it as needed. He would make more $$$ than mining with them, that he couldn't grasp this concept really disturbed me.
[13:56] <drawingthesun> also, did we buy peoples ASIC?
[13:56] <drawingthesun> I am unsure
[13:56] <@kleeck> Ken PM'd back to my complaint message. He told me he is hiring a PR guy (heard that before...) and that good news is coming in "a few weeks"
[13:56] <@kleeck> No, we didn't buy them from what I udnerstand.
[13:57] <drawingthesun> kleeck, I heard that same thing in November.
[13:57] <@kleeck> We purchased the 55nm IP from them.
[13:57] <@kleeck> (right.)
[13:57] <@kleeck> I kind of want to message him back and tell him that his response gives me no faith at all and remind him that he has said both of those things with no result.
[13:58] <drawingthesun> So they exist as a seperate company, and are we paying them for continued assistence?
[13:58] <@kleeck> Although, I don't think that will serve any purpose.
[13:58] <@kleeck> I believe we are paying them, yes.
[13:58] <drawingthesun> What will not serve any purpose?
[13:58] <@kleeck> flaming Ken.
[13:58] <@kleeck> He told me he fucked up with the reporter/article.
03[13:59] * jimmyjazz1 (b00c6b8c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.176.12.107.140) has joined #ActM
[13:59] <drawingthesun> Well I haven't mentioned what I posted here outside where the trolls are, so I'm not publically flamining anyone really.
[13:59] <drawingthesun> Unless you're talking about someone else.
[13:59] <drawingthesun> :
[13:59] <drawingthesun> :)
[14:04] <jimmyjazz1> .
[14:04] <jimmyjazz1> btc up
[14:09] <@kleeck> yerp
[14:09] <@kleeck> drawingthesun: I don't follow. I was refering to me flaming him.
[14:09] <drawingthesun> cool no worries
[14:09] <drawingthesun> I misunderstood, ignore me!
[14:10] <drawingthesun> hehe
[14:10] <@kleeck> :p
[14:10] <jimmyjazz1> so kleeck will we see a product?
03[14:10] * GJPMiningco ([email protected]) has joined #ActM
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[14:10] <@GJPMiningco> Well i called and talked to Ken today and he said Just Watch what happens in 3 weeks So i think that is the good news he is talking about, So i will wait the 3 weeks and reserve my judgement of everything till then
[14:10] <@kleeck> I don't know, man. I really don't.
[14:11] <@kleeck> GJPMiningco: what does he expect to happen in 3 weeks? I just don't get it...
[14:11] <@GJPMiningco> Something about the Mining Farm hashrate
[14:11] <@kleeck> How does that make any sense?!
[14:11] <@GJPMiningco> I think he will be releaseing BIG news about something
[14:12] <@kleeck> Is he sitting on chips?
[14:12] <@GJPMiningco> Well i went to him about Bars deal that he wanted to sell his equipment
[14:12] <@kleeck> I don't understand the cloak and dagger approach to his shareholders. If he has an increase in hashrate in the mix why not tell us?
[14:12] <@GJPMiningco> no clue
[14:12] <@GJPMiningco> he couldnt really talk much
[14:13] <@kleeck> So you think Ken is buying BGs equipment?
[14:13] <@GJPMiningco> since he was driving and the current weather up there
[14:13] <@GJPMiningco> Nope he laughed at the Equipment Offer Bar had
[14:13] <@GJPMiningco> and he said just wait in 3 weeks you will see why i laughed
[14:13] <@kleeck> hrmph.
[14:14] <@kleeck> I will say this, he better have something pretty damn big in store to compensate for the angry investors.
[14:14] <@GJPMiningco> i hope so
[14:15] <@kleeck> He has until Q2 to provide something substantial - after which I know of two very serious groups that are looking into lawsuits.
[14:15] <drawingthesun> what was BG's offer by the way, I must have missed it.
[14:15] <@kleeck> I know he just ordered 300Th/s of gear.
[14:15] <@kleeck> Not sure if that's what he was trying to resell.
[14:16] <drawingthesun> really? That must have cost BG at least $2,000,000
[14:16] <@GJPMiningco> 10k for 1.09 th/s of chili miners
[14:16] <drawingthesun> Ken knows that buying hardware is stupid right? The only chance we have is to make chips.
[14:16] <drawingthesun> I hope.
[14:16] <@GJPMiningco> lol I am getting ready to order 2.4 th/s of hardware that will cost me 15btc
[14:17] <drawingthesun> that will take 3 months to earn back right?
[14:17] <@GJPMiningco> 3.5 to 5 months
[14:18] <@GJPMiningco> But i will have the hardware in about 1 - 1.5 weeks
[14:18] <drawingthesun> GJPMiningco, 15 bitcoin for 2.4 th is pretty good
[14:18] <@GJPMiningco> it will take 3.5 - 5 months becuase of the Hosting cost since i will be hosting the hardware at a data center
[14:19] <@GJPMiningco> Would anyone Like to join My  mining Co-Op
[14:19] <@GJPMiningco> it is called DCMCo-Op = Data Center Mining Co-Op
[14:19] <@GJPMiningco> I have secured the Hosting already
[14:20] <@GJPMiningco> Our total hashrate should be about 2.5th/s with the hardware we already have
[14:20] <@GJPMiningco> share price is cheap
[14:20] <@GJPMiningco> 0.0183 btc per share
[14:21] <drawingthesun> Nah I have nothing really, no hash power and i'm not investing again for a long time. I might invest GJPMiningco if I ever make several hundred bitcoin from this mess.
[14:21] <@GJPMiningco> each share = 2.183 ghs
[14:22] <drawingthesun> lol that values my GPU hash rate at just over $1
[14:22] <drawingthesun> I used to mine 0.1 bitcoin a week with that
[14:23] <drawingthesun> haha
[14:23] <drawingthesun> How things have changed.
[14:24] <@GJPMiningco> i know right
[14:25] <@GJPMiningco> I will get this project off the ground
[14:25] <@GJPMiningco> even if i have to Hock everything i own
[14:25] <drawingthesun> Good luck!
[14:28] <jimmyjazz1> 3 weeks will coem and go with nothing to show.
[14:28] <jimmyjazz1> come*
02[14:34] * drawingthesun ([email protected]) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[14:37] <Dermator> probably, not to mention that shares will still not be tradeable by then so whether we have this info now or 3 weeks from now it would be irrelevant
[14:39] <@kleeck> There could be other factors for not telling details now, but ffs, we all just got a bombshell dropped on us. Throw us a goddamn bone.
[14:43] <Dermator> yeah, anything would help now, not to mention the hype that will accumulate over the next 3 weeks between most shareholders about what this info could be that can have such great impact
[14:44] <Dermator> several times in the recent past we have been led to believe that something game-changing is coming for Actm from Ken and it all ends up being nothing of significant value...
[14:45] <@kleeck> What are some other times?
[14:45] <Dermator> we can only hope this is the one time we break the pattern
[14:45] <Dermator> well I would say the 55nm design was something that almost looked real
[14:45] <@kleeck> PA has confirmed that the 55nm is real.
[14:45] <Dermator> something we can have fairly soon and it was gonna put us on the map
[14:45] <Dermator> sure it is
[14:45] <Dermator> but we are not getting it
[14:46] <@kleeck> Ken is just not moving ahead with it.
[14:46] <Dermator> we are not selling it
[14:46] <@kleeck> Right.
[14:46] <Dermator> we are not mining with it
[14:46] <Dermator> how real is that to you as a shareholder
[14:46] <@kleeck> Real enough for me to know that Ken has a real dev team in place.
[14:47] <@kleeck> So, very.
[14:47] <jimmyjazz1> real enough to make me enough coins to become a millionaie when we hit 10,000?
[14:47] <Dermator> @jimmy: sure but you could have hold on to all the bitcoin you put into ACTM and you would still be :)
[14:47] <Dermator> when the price is that much...
[14:49] <jimmyjazz1> I have only put in about 15-20 Actm was my chance to get alot of btc
[14:51] <jimmyjazz1> suppose 200,000 wouldnt be to bad
[14:51] <Dermator> you think :)
[14:53] <jimmyjazz1> sadly i will prtobably never see that again.
[14:56] <jimmyjazz1> .
[14:56] <Dermator> we are all in the same boat... hope dies last... right now we can just hope that the 28nm is closer than we think... to be honest any kind of other news that we are served in 3 weeks will probably make most of us laugh
[14:57] <jimmyjazz1> yes.
[14:57] <jimmyjazz1> all or nothing.
[14:58] <Dermator> @kleeck I guess you are right, as of today the only real asset we have is that PA people seem to know what they are doing
[14:58] <@kleeck> Dude, that's all we have.
[14:59] <Dermator> hopefully they get slowly but surely to make more and more of the important decisions rather than Ken...
[14:59] <@GJPMiningco> Wooot I just picked up a New Investor
[14:59] <@kleeck> The project manager seems to have some clout.
[15:01] <jimmyjazz1> wHO HAS SPOKEN TO pa
[15:02] <@kleeck> Bargraphics is it, as far as I know.
[15:02] <@kleeck> He has known one of the engineers for the better part of a year.
[15:03] <@kleeck> (before they worked with Ken)
[15:05] <@GJPMiningco> Man if BTC keeps going up like it is thats just gonna keep growing my Co-Op Speed
[15:07] <jimmyjazz1> i pray we see the 28
[15:08] <@auto2nr1> yea
[15:08] <@auto2nr1> me too jimmyjazz
[15:08] <@auto2nr1> =(
[15:10] <@GJPMiningco> Woot Only 14.7 BTC left to raise till i have 2.4th/s mining power online
[15:10] <@kleeck> Wow GJPMiningco! It sounds like you're ready for your very own IRC channel!
[15:13] <@GJPMiningco> Will be Soon
[15:15] <jimmyjazz1> gjp did ken say there was hashrate online in 3 weeks?
[15:20] <@kleeck> Doesn't sound like he said that directly.
[15:20] <@GJPMiningco> he just said to watch what happens in 3 weeks
[15:20] <@Bargraphics> and then three more weeks
[15:21] <@Bargraphics> Three Weeks™
[15:21] <@GJPMiningco> anyone here able to to config a Channel bot to use CEX's API???
[15:21] <@Bargraphics> If Ken was remotely capable of running a business, he would be aware that he used up all his waiting games
[15:21] <@Bargraphics> and should just tell shareholders what's up
[15:21] <@Bargraphics> regardless of the good news in three weeks, shareholders are holding a grudge at this point
[15:23] <@Bargraphics> For instance
[15:23] <@Bargraphics> no matter how good this news is
[15:23] <@Bargraphics> I'm not going to be able to rationalize why he lost ~400 coins on gox
[15:23] <@Bargraphics> of activemining's money
[15:23] <@kleeck> maybe they were just goxcoins...
[15:24] <@Bargraphics> or why he is repeating the same thing he did with eASIC
[15:24] <@Bargraphics> which was postpone and delay because BTC price wasn't high enough
[15:24] <@Bargraphics> and then when BTC price was high enough, the chip wasn't worth continuing
[15:25] <@Bargraphics> Why not bring 55nm to market, show a chip CAN be made. Get investor/shareholder confidence in the 28nm
[15:25] <@Bargraphics> fund it with preorders
[15:25] <@Bargraphics> easy mode
[15:25] <jimmyjazz1> Bargraphics in all seriousness did you feel that Ken was competent hen you met up with him?
[15:25] <@Bargraphics> As a human and the fact that he took the deal with people asic
[15:25] <@Bargraphics> I would assume there was no way he could screw this up
[15:25] <@Bargraphics> but I forgot that it's Ken
[15:25] <@Bargraphics> and he would find a way
[15:26] <@Bargraphics> by actually cancelling a project that is basically in the bag
[15:26] <@Bargraphics> and losing coins on an exchange he should have never been on
[15:27] <@Bargraphics> Was I happy that he was leading us when I met him? No I much prefered someone younger and with more of an "I care" attitude
[15:27] <@Bargraphics> But he was much better than what I figured I would be meeting
[15:28] <@Bargraphics> but as you can tell I'm super pissed he cancelled the 55
[15:28] <jimmyjazz1> yeah i see, we all are. its a total joke.
[15:30] <@kleeck> Bargraphics: has PA commented on any of this?
[15:30] <@Bargraphics> Maybe
[15:32] <@kleeck> MAYbe...
[15:32] <@kleeck> MAY?
[15:32] <@kleeck> May chips confirmed?!
[15:33] <jimmyjazz1> haha
[15:37] <jimmyjazz1> .
[15:38] <@GJPMiningco> hehe I have my Own channel now all
[15:38] <@GJPMiningco> #DcmCo-Op
[15:39] <@GJPMiningco> if anyone Joins say "Bot it Up " for voice access in my channel
[15:46] <jimmyjazz1> Bargraphics Kleeck - One thing that has got me thinking is how Ken has the funds for the 28?
[15:46] <jimmyjazz1> Surely its more costly going full custom
[15:50] <@Bargraphics> because
[15:50] <@Bargraphics> he had BTC
[15:50] <@Bargraphics> and btc went up 10x
[15:50] <@Bargraphics> and he probably only spent maybe 40% of the BTC raised
[15:50] <@Bargraphics> so 60% x 10
[15:50] <@Bargraphics> and he has a lot of pre-orders that haven't cancelled most likely
[15:53] <jimmyjazz1> ok i see
[15:53] <jimmyjazz1> there was people saying 7mill+
[15:56] <@kleeck> Yeah. The thing I'm fairly certain of is the fact that he has the money he needs.
[15:57] <@Bargraphics> You mean Enthropy?
[15:57] <@Bargraphics> He doesn't know anything
[15:57] <@kleeck> He just pretends to know things.
[16:00] <@Bargraphics> I wasn't sure if he knew what he was talking about for a while
[16:01] <@Bargraphics> but then I've seen the quotes from UMC
[16:01] <@Bargraphics> and the backend designers
[16:01] <@Bargraphics> as well as boards/part quotes
[16:01] <@Bargraphics> and he's off by 3-4x
[16:01] <@Bargraphics> which means he's pretending to know anything or he's only talked to people that are terrible at business
[16:01] <@Bargraphics> 28nm chip is about 1M
[16:02] <@Bargraphics> board design would be about double that
[16:02] <@Bargraphics> honestly you could sell chips and just do a few test boards
[16:02] <@Bargraphics> if needed
[16:02] <@Bargraphics> it's even less because they are using the same foundry and backend designers
[16:02] <@Bargraphics> so they are cutting Ken breaks on the pricing
02[16:02] * iamnot_ ([email protected]) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[16:02] <@Bargraphics> and it is significant due to not needing to purchase libraries/etc.. again
02[16:03] * jimmyjazz1 (b00c6b8c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.176.12.107.140) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[16:04] <@VinceSamios> yeah the 7-8mil NRE for 28nm is way off
[16:04] <@VinceSamios> maybe 5 years ago
[16:04] <@VinceSamios> not now
[16:04] <@VinceSamios> he probably googled some old article
[16:04] <@VinceSamios> 3 years ago even
[16:06] <@VinceSamios> Full custom 28nm NRE must be around the 1.5-2mil mark.
[16:06] <@VinceSamios> either way - no reason he can't spend pre-order funds on it
[16:06] <@kleeck> Yeah. I actually read an older Intro to IC textbook that said 5m+ was normal. I think the book was written in 2004.
[16:10] <@VinceSamios> thats the thing, these technologies change so rapidly its bear on impossible to get a current cost
[16:16] <@kleeck> It also said that a 65nm ASIC would take 2+ years to develope.
[16:16] <@kleeck> develop*
[16:24] <@VinceSamios> *if you're butterfly labs
[16:25] <@VinceSamios> or ken.... :/
[16:28] <@kleeck> Ken told me to wait a few weeks.
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[16:49] <@auto2nr1> gjpminingco
[16:49] <@auto2nr1> just saw your post
[16:49] <@auto2nr1> ken didnt share any other info with you aside from the wait 3 weeks?
[16:50] <@GJPMiningco> nope
03[16:56] * jimmyjazz1 (5e00b83c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.0.184.60) has joined #ActM
[16:57] <@auto2nr1> got it... i hate these wednesday updates
[16:57] <@auto2nr1> i want updates as it is neded
02[16:58] * @kleeck (40b80062@gateway/web/freenode/ip.64.184.0.98) Quit (Quit: Page closed)
[16:58] <@auto2nr1> needed