<Saundra> Discussion concerning use of hypnosis in D/s 7PM ET June 17 All are welcome and encouraged to participate
<Saundra> baseline -  please all opinions are ok
<Saundra> respect is the only requirement
* adam nods
<Saundra> hypnosis is poorly defined and invoking definitions can be a problem
<Saundra> to start,
<Saundra> is there a role for hypnosis in D/s relationships?
<Saundra> opnions?
<adam> i think so, but not necessarily in all
<subm^{S}> yeslmof course there is
<Saundra> does hypno add anythig?
<adam> i think it's another tool
<perpetualnatalie> I suppose that would majorly depend on what you want out of the relationship.
<Saundra> nods
<subm^{S}> It  allows the person to easier follow their desires and to go deeper
<adam> not just another tool, but it is useful sometimes and not others
<Saundra> example of where it helps?
<Thrawn92> I'd like to think of it like bondage- as long as there's enough trust from both parties, they can enjoy it immensely.
<Saundra> so what does hypno usually add?
<adam> a lot, and i'm trying to condense it down
<subm^{S}> It facilitates obtaining what the subject craves for and needs
<@ctrl-alt-me|mobile> it's quite the ultimate submission to allow someone else inside your mind
<adam> but it really does have a broad scope
<adam> it can be used like bondage, to restrict
<Saundra> so mostly to make the submissive more submissive?
<adam> restrict thinking, restrict resistance
<subm^{S}> One will allow themelves to be drected to where they want to go
<@ctrl-alt-me|mobile> I've always thought of it as bondage of the mind as well :)
<Saundra> to break down barriers?
<adam> it does more than that though, doesn't it?
<adam> because it can also be directly linked to pleasure
<adam> i think that's one of the places it's most useful
<subm^{S}> less restrictive thinking and less resistance
<Thrawn92> Hypnosis can enhance pleasure in a lot of cases as well
<Saundra> so hypno enhances erotic aspects?
<adam> to set up reward cycles and encourage behaviour
<subm^{S}> the mind opens
<Saundra> nods less inhibition?
<adam> definitely less inhibition
<subm^{S}> the rational conscious filter closes
<adam> is there a non-erotic aspect of hypnosis in D/s?
<Stargazer> Free of inhibitions,  free of choice, free of doubt  ;p
<Stargazer> Thats what i tell my sub
<Saundra> nods

<adam> they must love to hear that
<adam> that's a very comforting set of ideas
<subm^{S}> and the open mind- subconscious mind takes over  feeling not rational logical filter
<Saundra> so more intense with hypno
<Saundra> is it always the dominant using pn to influence the sub?
<subm^{S}> More intense as it adds another dimension
<Stargazer> Non erotic aspect js a good question though
<subm^{S}> accepting suggestions and thoughts so much easier
<adam> i'm wondering if it can just be purely functional
<adam> in some sense at least
<Stargazer> I think its by definition erotic..
<Stargazer> On some level
<Saundra> nods
<adam> okay, contrived but common scenario
<Mica> speaking from basically no experience here, but i feel like it could be used to help the sub simply feel more comfortable with the dom
<subm^{S}> I think you are basically correct,, Stargazer
<Mica> doesn't necessarily have to be erotic
<adam> after just finishing an intense session, it can be nice to use hypno to calm down and relax
<Mica> that too adam
<Mica> i feel like it has many uses outside of eroticism
<Saundra> does that cloud the submissives judgement? are they giving consent?
<subm^{S}> Does not hav to be, Mica
<subm^{S}> But normally  obedience is linked to submission and arousal
<Mica> i think if they give consent beforehand then it is ok but if they don't then it's more of a gray area
<Thrawn92> I think that the submissive has a responsibility to know what he/she/they are getting into
<subm^{S}> erotic arousal
<Mica> makes sense subm^{S}
<Stargazer> I agree Thrawn92 (great choice of name btw)
<Saundra> do they usually Thrawn92?
<adam> does which part cloud submissives judgement, Saundra?
<Saundra> to accept being tranced to be more submissive?
<subm^{S}> True    But I think the tist has a much larger one, Thrawn92
<Saundra> it is a ver intense feeling
<adam> there are different ways to influence judgment
<adam> sometimes by obscuring the truth
<Saundra> nods
<subm^{S}> I think you need to stop, Saundra and ask a very important ethical question
<adam> but i don't think that's what hypno does
<Thrawn92> Probably not, but they should. Communication is definitely important in any d/s relationship, I figure.
<Thrawn92> not just ones involving hypnosis
<Mica> i agree with Thrawn92 because when you're in trance it's harder to make decisions for yourself. even though you will only accept suggestions you want to, you might just "go along with it" and accept it to not make things difficult. not sure if that makes sense
<adam> makes perfect sense to me, Mica
<perpetualnatalie> Me as well.
<subm^{S}> You must look at the ethical consideraion of using hypnosis to actually make one submissive
<Saundra> there is also the attraction that makes it hard to say no
<Mica> yeah exactly
<subm^{S}> enhancing one who wants to submit already is onething
<Stargazer> Well, might as well say arousal makes it hard to say no ;p
<adam> sometimes saying yes feels so good that it's easy to ignore the context
<Saundra> it is not difficult to create submissive feelings'
<Saundra> yes adam
<Mica> y'all are making me feel very justified here haha
<adam> :)
<Saundra> suppose you make someone very submissive and dependent on you.  then have no time for them, what do you do?
<Stargazer> Well, but saying yes doesnt mean you agree tbh
<subm^{S}> To use hypnosis to produce the submission is so different and questionable ethically
<Mica> which can cause internal conflict, Stargazer
<Thrawn92> Well, first of all, Saundra, shame on you for being in that position in the first place :p
<adam> there must be a responsibility to help the submissive move on in that case, Saundra
<Mica> ethically, i'd say the dom should communicate that to the sub and make time for a session to remove those suggestions,  etc
<Mica> and yeah, help them through it
<adam> i feel like dependence can become very deeply ingrained
<Saundra> seems to commo
<Thrawn92> All jokes aside, if you went through all the trouble to make them that dependent on you, you have a responsibility  towards them that really can't be ignored
<Saundra> nods yes
<adam> what responsibility does the sub have in this hypothetical?
<Saundra> can the effects of hypnosis on submssion be reversed?
<subm^{S}> Hypnosis lowers one  resistance and open up the mind to be caressed with enchaning, alluring and rousaing thoughts
<adam> do we have the power to prevent ourselves from becoming that dependent or is it something the mind does automatically?
<Stargazer> I was just about to ask that adam
<subm^{S}> they comply easier
<Stargazer> The sub has the responsibility as well
<Saundra> i dont think we do adam
<Mica> i don't think so either adam
<Thrawn92> There are many recordings out there that help reverse hypnotic suggestions, so I don't see why it shouldn't
<adam> that's a comforting thought to me
<Saundra> do they work?
<Mica> i mean, i've struggled with codependency my whole life and i wasn't hypnotized into it hah
<Thrawn92> Plus, all things fade with time
<Mica> yeah, i've seen those tracks to reverse suggestions, i've always wondered if they worked
<Saundra> sooo ok to leet them go?
<adam> what do you mean when you say "struggled with codependency"?
<Thrawn92> Beats me, I've never really tried them
<subm^{S}> is it ethical to use hypnosis to produce submission?
<Saundra> those most at risk are insecure depressed loney
<Stargazer> Do you really produce it or enhance it?
<adam> i've never had a suggestion that i didn't want that stuck