An Attempt at Philosophy with Shirakawasuna

menu
Status #debatesX
#debates: Trump demands voters records and SS numbers of all voters |  UK Tories to form coalition government with N.Irelands DUP | CBO Score  says Trumpcare bill would leave 22 Million more UnInsured - 9 Senators declare they will vote against it (Senate can only lose 2)
[11:23] == Jeleva [~qwebirc@68.71.39.133] has joined #debates
[11:23] == mode/#Debates [+v Jeleva] by Raven`X
[11:23] <+Jeleva> Earlier, I spoke about people who violate the FIFO queue often have a difficult time controlling their impulsive thoughts.
[11:23] <+Jeleva> Merely mentioning that in the general so infuriated a chatter they kick-banned me for my opinion.
[11:24] <+lauchlin11> oh yay
[11:24] <+BS_Lewis> I'm violating the FIFO queue right now
[11:24] <+lauchlin11> its Lania
[11:24] <+lauchlin11> yay
[11:24] <+Jeleva> Don't be a savage: respect the FIFO queue!
[11:24] == lauchlin11 has changed nick to lauchlin
[11:24] <+Jeleva> This message was brought to you by the philosophers of the world.
[11:24] Ignored lauchlin, to unignore type: /UNIGNORE lauchlin
[11:24] <+Jeleva> That person was Fundamenta|ist, by the way.
[11:25] <+Guest87791> what FIFO queue?
[11:25] == lauchlin [~joel@hmtnon1497w-lp130-07-174-92-34-21.dsl.bell.ca] has left #debates [Closing Window]
[11:25] == lauchlin [~joel@hmtnon1497w-lp130-07-174-92-34-21.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #debates
[11:25] == mode/#Debates [+o lauchlin] by ChanServ
[11:25] <+BS_Lewis> I care
[11:25] <+BS_Lewis> And Guest87791 cares
[11:25] <+Jeleva> First in, first out queue.
[11:26] <+Jeleva> In conversational terms, if I ask you a question, but then something else enters your mind, you have to respond to my question first, then we go with your question.
[11:26] <+BS_Lewis> See
[11:26] <+BS_Lewis> Why else would I be here
[11:26] == Guest87791 has changed nick to Shirakawasuna
[11:26] <+Sardaukar> Jeleva is laniakea, avoiding akick every day
[11:26] <+BS_Lewis> I'm waiting for my SO to get home from the salon
[11:26] <+Shirakawasuna> Jeleva, nah, that's not how conversation works
[11:26] <+Shirakawasuna> I could ask you 10 questions right now. Do you have to answer them all, in order? Sounds controlling
[11:26] <+Jeleva> One of the great benefits of the FIFO queue is that it communicate reciprocity.
[11:26] <+Sardaukar> i prefer the James Joyce style conversation
[11:26] <+Jeleva> Shirakawasuna: No. I would need to be more precise.
[11:27] <+Shirakawasuna> that's all FIFO means
[11:27] <+Shirakawasuna> so yes you would
[11:27] <+Shirakawasuna> or stop using the term FIFO
[11:27] <+Jeleva> When reciprocity is communicated, participants feel respected.
[11:27] <+Jeleva> Shirakawasuna: I will address your issue. Let me give a slight epistemic background.
[11:28] == fckd [fckd@fckd.us] has left #debates [Leaving]
[11:28] <+Sardaukar> LANIA should use "GIGO"
[11:28] == mode/#Debates [+l 78] by Debates
[11:28] Ignored Sardaukar, to unignore type: /UNIGNORE Sardaukar
[11:28] <+Jeleva> In my worldview there is no Truth, only various approximations of events or projections of an event to a subspace.
[11:29] <+Jeleva> Different projections are possible, and we lose different information with different projections, especially considering how many dimensions we lose.
[11:29] <+Jeleva> So, I feel 'FIFO queue' is a pretty reasonable two word description of my idea.
[11:29] <+TheIlluminaughty> I like star trek technobabble too!
[11:29] <+Jeleva> TheIlluminaughty: It appears you didn't study linear algebra.
[11:30] <+Jeleva> If you did, then you'd know what I'm talking about
[11:30] <+Shirakawasuna> but it's not proper
[11:30] <+Shirakawasuna> because it's not FIFO
[11:30] <+Jeleva> Shirakawasuna: Yes, if there was a single FIFO queue, the scenario you described would exploit it.
[11:31] <+BS_Lewis> People just want to disagree with Jeleva because he comes across as arrogant.
[11:31] <+Dreams2X> Lania must be a lot of fun at parties.
[11:31] <+BS_Lewis> All he's saying is that effective communication follows the Gricean maxims
[11:31] <+Jeleva> The actual data structure is that every participant gets a FIFO queue, and there is a master queue which arbitrarily chooses without replacement from each user queue to be inserted into the master queue.
[11:32] <sexbee> lauchlin but..but...his verbal IQ is amazeballs!!
[11:32] <+Jeleva> I probably prefer to think of the choosing as a stream operation.
[11:32] <+Jeleva> BS_Lewis: I was not familiar with those.
[11:33] <+Jeleva> Shirakawasuna: Do you feel satisfied?
[11:33] <+Shirakawasuna> nah that's not true either, Jeleva
[11:33] <+Shirakawasuna> no one stores their own FIFO queue
[11:33] <+Dreams2X> his
[11:33] <+pheno> lania's social iq is 17
[11:33] <+Shirakawasuna> if anything what you're thinking of is probably some kind of fair scheduler
[11:33] <+Shirakawasuna> but there isn't a single scheduler that describes what you want
[11:33] <+BS_Lewis> Jeleva: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cooperative_principle
[11:33] <+pela> [ Cooperative principle - Wikipedia  ]
[11:33] <+Shirakawasuna> so it doesn't make a lot of sense to try to wedge it in there
[11:33] <+Jeleva> Why don't people store their own FIFO queue?
[11:33] <+Shirakawasuna> because they don't
[11:34] <sexbee> if people found mates attractive solely on the basis of verbal IQ, i think we could agree lania would be beating chicks off him with a stick. however, this is not happening so we must therefore assume by reductio ad absurdum that the underlying premise is false
[11:34] <+Shirakawasuna> and there's no master scheduler
[11:34] <+Shirakawasuna> it's just people saying things
[11:34] <+Shirakawasuna> there are two agens
[11:34] <+Shirakawasuna> *agents
[11:34] <+Jeleva> You're so empirically, the way most people's minds work, they don't remember or have the capacity or don't care enough to store their own FIFO queue?
[11:34] <+Jeleva> You're saying*
[11:34] <+Shirakawasuna> I'm saying you're applying the word FIFO inappropriately
[11:34] <+Jeleva> Why?
[11:34] <+Shirakawasuna> and making stuff up, also inappropriately, about how people communicate
[11:34] <+Shirakawasuna> because it's not FIFO
[11:35] <+Shirakawasuna> do you... do you know what FIFO means?
[11:35] <+Jeleva> I would remind you of my thesis: People *should* follow the 'FIFO queue'.
[11:35] <+Shirakawasuna> but it's not a FIFO queue
[11:35] <+Jeleva> (Where 'FIFO queue' points to the same object as my lengthier description)
[11:36] <+Jeleva> You've made a lot of little claims in your last five posts.
[11:36] <+Jeleva> And you're not expanding on many of them.
[11:36] <+Jeleva> First, do you agree with that assessment?
[11:36] <+Jeleva> BS_Lewis: Thank you.
[11:37] <+Shirakawasuna> so, not gonna argue that it's FIFO?
[11:37] <+Shirakawasuna> words have no meaning I guess
[11:37] <+TheSkeptic> Ugh I remember my comp architecture course.
[11:37] <+TheSkeptic> FIFO, LRU, all that crap.
[11:37] <+TheSkeptic> I hated it.
[11:37] <+Jeleva> First, do you agree with that assessment?
[11:37] <+Jeleva> I'm going to enforce my question now.
[11:37] <+Jeleva> I claim you are doing bad philosophy currently, Shirakawasuna.
[11:37] <+Jeleva> You're doing a light version of Gish galloping, I claim.
[11:38] <+Jeleva> I can list all the claims you made above that you haven't expanded.
[11:38] <+TonySnark> Just make sure it's a gentle takedown.
[11:38] <+Shirakawasuna> that's nice, Jeleva
[11:38] <+Shirakawasuna> well that's a dumb claim
[11:38] <+Shirakawasuna> I've waited for a coherent response many times
[11:38] <+TonySnark> Gish jogging.
[11:38] <+Jeleva> Shirakawasuna: It appears our conversation is over.
[11:38] <+Jeleva> Here are your open claims
[11:38] <+Jeleva> 1 - 'It appears that I don't think words have meaning'
[11:38] <+Jeleva> 2 - 'Reiteration of my claimed confusion on my model not being a FIFO queue'
[11:39] <+Shirakawasuna> no one is under an onus to expand claims
[11:39] <+TonySnark> Shirakawasuna: you stand accused in the court of Lania. Your crime: Gish jogging. How do you plead?
[11:39] <+Shirakawasuna> Jeleva, you're spending your time policing a conversation, but have not yet justified your own simple claim, and I've pointed out how it's not FIFO
[11:39] <+Shirakawasuna> yeah, you keep calling something that isn't FIFO, FIFO
[11:39] <+Jeleva> 3 - 'Do I know what FIFO means?'
[11:39] <+Shirakawasuna> 3 isn't a claim
[11:39] <+Shirakawasuna> lol
[11:39] <+Jeleva> 4 - 'I am making stuff up how people communicate'
[11:39] <+TonySnark> BS_Lewis: I have nowhere near that many firearms.
[11:39] <+Jeleva> 5 - 'I am applying the word FIFO inappropriately'
[11:40] <+Shirakawasuna> 2 and 5 are equivalent
[11:40] <+Jeleva> 6 - 'Your model is better understood as a fair scheduler'
[11:40] <@UnderCoverNerd> you seem to be confused at what gish galloping is. it isn't when you keep pressing someone on a central point htey keep avoiding
[11:40] <+Shirakawasuna> a bad show, all around
[11:40] <@UnderCoverNerd> lmbo
[11:40] <+Jeleva> 6 - 'People don't store their own FIFO queue'
[11:40] <+Jeleva> Those appear to be your open claims.
[11:40] <+Shirakawasuna> ha it's not even incrementing anymore
[11:40] <+TonySnark> Shirakawasuna: a plea of guilty has been entered for you. You are now found guilty, and your punishment shall be Lania running his mouth off at you for an indetermenent time.
[11:40] <+Jeleva> Oops, you're right: the last one is 7.
[11:40] <+Shirakawasuna> Jeleva, sounds like a tough life for you
[11:40] Ignored Shirakawasuna, to unignore type: /UNIGNORE Shirakawasuna
[11:40] <+Jeleva> I put you on ignore, Shirakawasuna.
[11:41] <+BS_Lewis> lol
[11:41] <+Jeleva> Ad hominem fallacy is particularly egregious
[11:42] == Jeleva was kicked from #debates by lauchlin [lauchlin]