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Time_Vault

Time_Vault Grudge Match Judgement

Dec 13th, 2020
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  1. Before I can begin to judge the match, I must first make a judgement on one of the most heavily debated parts of the debate, being BWL's 8th Metal Bullets. After reading both sides, I will side with ame, the bullets were only explicitly used once. We have no way of knowing if the bullets used in the other appearances were made out of the 8th metal, he will be allowed to use standard rounds, but not the invisible bullets.
  2. The part of the debate that needs to be discussed first is the approaches of the combatants. Embrace opted for an offensive stealth strategy while ame opted for a more head on yet defensive strategy. The main point here is whether or not ame's team could see through Mysterio's illusions. Breaking the evidence down individually, there is no proof that Mysterio can replicate chi, so Shang-Chi would more than likely be able to see through them. On the flip side, Mysterio's illusions were shown to be more convincing than Scarecrow's, having been able to fool the Iron Man suit's x-ray. However, as ame stated, 1, Batman's deductive capabilities would be able to tell the illusions apart from his team mates due to their shift in behavior, and 2, there was no evidence presented that showed that Mysterio could edit his illusions on the fly to match his enemies. In terms of Azrael, the image provided did not show any form of immunity (https://imgur.com/a/yLgF1SD) to Scarecrow's illusions, which as previously mentioned, were only shown to be weaker than Mysterio's illusions through out this battle. Either way, it shows him fighting through it, not having an immunity. As a result, Azrael would be the only one affected by Mysterio's illusions. Despite the illusion strategy being a bust, the gas created by it would be effective for concealing Embrace's team, right? wrong. The x-ray vision on the bat suit and Shang-Chi's chi sense nullifies that, allowing him to know where his enemies are at all times.
  3. Moving on, let's break down what each member of the opposing teams has to counter each other. Staring with the easiest, Mysterio has the Venom symbiote, making him weak to loud sound and fire. Azrael's suit has a built in flame thrower ( https://imgur.com/a/bkGqWw9). Batman was also given a flame thrower in his, admittedly ridiculously long list of gadgets for this fight (https://www.reddit.com/r/Amenonhuko_Public/comments/gtj6iu/batman_gdt_10_gear/). Once either of these is used and the weakness discoverd, it's lights out for Mysterio. Shang-Chi was ignored for the most part during the debate, but his physical strength would be a big help one the symbiote is removed.
  4. Next, we have Nightwing. This one is also pretty straight forward. He has lost to Azrael in the past ( https://imgur.com/a/bkGqWw9) and refuses to fight him again (https://imgur.com/a/g70pIvL). While the rebuttal was that Nightwing was considered a better fighter, no amount of skill can make up for a massive gap in strength and speed. Despite being called he second best fighter in the DC universe, the one person ranked above him is Batman (https://i.imgur.com/2UpC6m3.jpg). the issue here is that batman wouldn't want to hurt his son in character, so he would probably go for the ring out option, which he is strong enough to do. Shang-Chi once again is a skilled combatant himself, who has been known to take down enemies through use of pressure points , so once again, he could hold his own.
  5. Lastly for team Batman Incorporated, we have The Batman Who laughs, who is an interesting case. He and Batman are pretty evenly matched. Each of the fights showcased never had their conclusion shown, so as far as I am concerned they are pretty even. In fact, all of the members of team Attack and Dethrone God. However, since the team has ways of dealing with the other two team mates, as long as they don't get hard countered by Nightwing or Mysterio, they should be able to beat him.
  6. Moving on, do the members of Batman Incorperated have any tricks for countering the members of Attack and Dethrone God? Starting with Shang-Chi, Mysterio can't really do anything. His illusions are defeated by his chi sensing abilities. Nightwing should have the combat skills to at least match him based on the provided panels. BWL is a skilled enough combatant to match or beat Shang Chi. Nothing much else to say here, Shang-Chi was mostly relegated to the back of the debate.
  7. Next, Azrael is at a significant disadvantage, being the only one who cannot see through Mysterio's illusions, However, mysterio's weakness to fire (Azrael's main weapon) and the fact that his team mates can see through the illusions helps to balance this out. As previously stated, he has defeated Nightwing in the past to the point where he already doesn't want to fight him, so he won't be any help. Lastly, once again, BWL, being a skilled combatant, would probably tie him, the skill differential vs the power differential evens out.
  8. This leaves us with Batman. Once again Nightwing is second only to him in combat in his universe, he can't beat him alone. Batman can see through the illusions, so Mysterio is out. He tied BWL, so he would need another team mate to help defeat him, but based on the above, Attack and Dethrone God far outclasses Batman Incorporated just by the virtue of having the exact skills needed to defeat their main abilities, thus BWL would probably be the last member of his team left standing, left to lose in a 2v1.
  9. After analyzing the abilities of each team, I will be giving the win to ame and team Attack and Dethrone God. While Batman Incorporated could hold their ground for a bit, Attack and Dethrone God just happens to have a perfect counter to Nightwing and Mysterio, leaving the whole team to Face BWL, setting them up for victory.
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